The Absolute State of British Nationalism

The immigrants we have in America are nothing like the immigrants you have in Europe. The European immigrants are just people who are looking for a better life. The immigrants to America in contrast are fundamentally evil people

I actually think it’s the reverse, Mexicans are fine people with a colorful culture (e.g. Dia de los muertos) that’s going to enrich the US. By contrast, the recent immigrants in Europe are mostly jihadis, rapists, drug dealers, organized beggars and believers in witchcraft who want to kill the white man and make white women their concubines.
Anyway, your plan is interesting and mostly quite sensible. I doubt Trump will manage to do something like this though. On current trends he seems more likely to start another great Mideast war which will end in disaster for both the region and the US. His presidency will end in catastrophic failure and the backlash will lead to political dominance of the Democrats who will then push through an amnesty for illegal immigrants and increase legal immigration to unprecedented levels. The US will be a larger version of California, a de facto one party state. Trump might end up accelerating that outcome instead of delaying it, let alone reversing the process.

While British nationalism is not very impressive to say the least it is also true that British nationalists face repression in a way Muslims in Britain don’t.

Comparing Brits to Gazans is a false comparison. Since they don’t have a lot in the first place the Gaza Arabs don’t really have much to lose and given their martyrdom culture they even have something to gain from engaging in these protest actions.

You should compare British nationalists to Muslims actually living in Britain, who certainly are a privileged class. If participants in these Islamic marches in Britain had to face being fired from their jobs and social ostracism, I suspect they would be less impressive. Being a martyr is fun and heroic, being an unemployed loser with no friends is less fun.

You have this strange affection for obscurantist Islam that I don’t understand. While I understand the need for society to believe in a higher order, traditional Islam is mainly suitable for the type of society it arose in – a tribal, premodern, desert Arab society.

In so far as Muslim countries can become desirable countries they must loosen the hold of obscurantist beliefs, either by secularising or by accepting significant societal innovations into their theological worldview.

While I don’t have an opinion as to what Muslims do among each other in their own countries, it is clear that the spreading of these obscurantist beliefs to other parts of the world is detrimental and will only cause these countries to become more backwards.

There is also the issue that islamisation – particularly traditional and obscurantist strains – tends to alter and partially erase other cultures for the negative.

In any case if you want to spread your religious viewpoints wider I suggest you learn how to relate to other people more.

What’s a Based person?

Agree with quite a bit. A few points…

The hate-spewing mosques allover the world will close down.

They won’t close down, they’ll simply be under local management within the communities they exist in. They might have their name swapped out though, like the one I used to attend in LA long ago, the King Fahd Masjid.

Many Muslim countries are actually quite vulnerable

Nothing new here.

That will shut the door permantly.

That’s a good thing, right?

Malaysia & Indonesia are just 10 / 15 years away from being newly industrialized countries

Yup – keep you eye on Malaysia now that PM Mahathir is back in power. He is a serious guy.

That means Muslim will see that being moderate will bring more perks than being Quran-thumping beggars.

If you mean this will lead to less extremist interpretations of Islam, then I’m all for it.

Either build modern substainable societies or die.

Sure – survival of the fittest.

Egypt indicates a whopping 60% drop in live-births

There you go – the law of averages working its way through – see, I don’t know why people get so worked up some times.

Peace.

3 Dem incumbents lost primary to Berniecrat insurgents tonight. This is a huge defeat for the DNC and shows that nothing can stop the Corbynization of the Democratic party.

If you read all of what I wrote, my criticism was directed at people in the West that feel Westerners aren’t having enough kids, but themselves don’t feel like making the sacrifices to make a change in that.

The problem is not as much as not having enough kids. But not having enough kids, relative to lower quality or socially less civilized populations (however subjectively defined) having more kids, while being able to access same territory.

If all populations in an equally accessed territory had less kids at the same time, that would be be relevant only to the dependency ratio – i.e. only a getting worse, ceteris paribus, problem for dependency ratio at a certain time.

If people have less kids in one country, but combined with a strong immigration barrier (like Japan), preventing access to the territory from lower quality or less civilized populations, then there is only the dependency ratio problem .

But there is not the problem of lower quality people, or less civilized culture people, having more kids, while accessing the same territory.

The nightmare combination for a country feels more like:
1. Higher quality or more civilized populations have less kids.
2. Lower quality or uncivilized (however subjectively defined) populations have more kids.
3. Lower quality or uncivilized populations having access to the same territory as higher quality or more civilized populations.

Japan is not experiencing a nightmare situation, because it does not have 3. It will have problem with dependency ratio increasing, but this is not so called ‘demographic nightmare scenario’.

But there are a number of countries, whether we talk about Russia, UK, France, Israel, India, Sweden – where Islamic birthrates are higher than the birthrates of all other groups, while at the same time accessing the same territory as the non-Islamic populations.

Now in Talha view the Islamic populations may be more civilized or higher quality populations (which might be a fair viewpoint and even true from some religious perspective). But from the point of view of people who view the categories the other way around – it can be seen the reason the differential birthrates are seen as a problem (and it’s only when combined with weak immigration policies).

This is the more history of Islamists and Islamophobia.

But Islamophobia has been around for ages. Long before Islamism appeared. Even today in Syria you are seeing some of the more hardcore Assadist types starting to regard Islam itself, as opposed to just Islamism, as the enemy.

…

re Talha: Talha is religious but not an Islamist. He hates Islamists more than anyone on this board because for him it’s personal. Given Talha’s education level, I’m pretty sure that the Islamic world’s problems aren’t the result there being too many Talhas.

Basically you are saying that you just want Muslims who pay lip service to Islam but don’t actually believe it.

…

re Israel and Islamism: you have every right to have an opinion on Israeli motives, but when you refuse to learn about Israeli politics you will come up with theories that just don’t make any sense.

Anybody who knows anything about Israeli politics knows that secular Israel was horrified when Morsi won. It was the Israeli far right that supported Morsi but I would say 95%+ of Israeli Jews supported Mubarak and were happy when Morsi was overthrown.

I don’t know anything about the genesis of Hamas, but I do know that in 2008 the Israeli right was very opposed to the war in Gaza because they were terrified that Hamas would be toppled and the PLO put back in charge there. I remember how I myself was cheering Hamas on at the time because I was certain that the IDF intended to topple Hamas. In contrast, the Israeli left was gung ho about the war precisely because they wanted to install Fatah in Gaza and they repeatedly pushed this idea on Israeli TV.

And today it is generally understood that the number 1 job of the IDF in Judea and Samaria (what you call The West Bank) is keeping Abu Mazen in power. Similarly, I think that even you would concede that Israel would prefer a totally secular Lebanon to one where the state is essentially under Hezbollah control.

Your thesis comes down to “Israel is run by people who have the same worldview as Greasy William”. But that simply isn’t so and any Israeli would laugh at such a concept. You can believe whatever you want, but you are only lying to yourself.

You should compare British nationalists to Muslims actually living in Britain, who certainly are a privileged class.

https://twitter.com/OrwellNGoode/status/996085028969992198

No, I said substance, not fantasies that sound like the product of substance abuse. But the comment about platitudes was not directed at you – your drawback is that you waste too much time and effort “trolling”. But that’s just how you get your kicks, which in the end is what we are all here for.

The bottom line is that both Islamists and Islamophobes are being played by the same forces. Actually they were created by the same forces. They were created against me. To screw up my world. So I am hostile and do not have much sympathy for characters like Talha and I am hostile to characters like Randal or German_reader partly because they are so unreflective in their Islamophobia. I understand them but I do not want the Islamists and Islamophobes to be a part of my world. We can get rid of Islamists but only w/o Islamophobia.

No, I don’t think so. You are just incorrect in your characterisations here, which imo reflects your own bias, because you are perfectly capable of better understanding.

I’ve noted before that Unz inevitably attracts people whose views are usually excluded from free discussion in public discourse, and in the societies of the modern US sphere two of the main groups in that category are “antisemites” and “racists” (I use both terms here descriptively, as shorthand, without any negative connotation and with due recognition of their inherently dishonest and intentionally flexible definitions). I sympathise with both groups, and recognise that both groups have important things to say that are ordinarily suppressed with damaging consequences for out societies, though I am not fully on board with the more extreme positions of either

Your bias is that you sit at the more extreme “anti-Semite” end of that spectrum while broadly accepting the mainstream critique of “racism”, and you often seem unduly concerned to distance yourself from the latter [again, see my caveats above about my use of those terms]. I read much of value in your comments, because you are an intelligent and thoughtful commenter, but I don’t share your ultimate understanding of the world as, in effect, overwhelmingly run by jewish conspiracy even to the extent of their being wholly responsible for such vast human forces as the C20th return to islam in response to the observed failure of secular socialism and nationalism. My own bias is that I’m a social conservative who regards genuine religious belief and discipline as broadly a good thing.

Talha as far as I can tell is an islamist (depending how you define that term) but not a jihadist. In the sense that he is the equivalent of a Christian who takes Christianity seriously as a guide to life (before modern Christianity degenerated into its modern form of a mostly socially radical bunch of leftist unbelievers play-acting at belief and administering a collection of “moralistic therapeutic deists”). While in the past Israel and the forces behind it certainly encouraged islamists, and they certainly encourage jihadists today, that was mainly directed at undermining the PLO and other rivals of the time, and it is only one small aspect of the game in the ME. There are much wider reasons why muslim countries would be better run by actual muslims (though not jihadists) – the exemplars here, albeit Shiite, are Hezbollah and Iran. They manage to be muslim without being jihadist, and to stand up to Israel without being reduced to submissive collaboration (occasional cooperation when necessary is not the same) like secular Egypt and the Gulf sunni despots, and notwithstanding your dismissive comments about Iran being “delegitimised” they do in fact play a hugely constructive and vital role in the ME. Without them, US dominance of the region would be pretty much complete. The Muslim Brotherhood could certainly have evolved into a sunni equivalent in Egypt, though it was complicated by its involvement in Libya and Syria in which it was de facto in alliance with the jihadists encouraged by Israel, the Gulf despots and the US.

This is why you are simply incorrect in your idea of me as an “unreflective islamophobe”, since I am not actually opposed to islam per se, just to its presence in force in my own country (as a result of mass immigration), and by extension its increasing presence in other post-Christian countries in Europe and America, and to its jihadist manifestations.

As for German_Reader, he’s more than capable of speaking for himself, but he’s certainly considerably more hostile to islam than I am. Though even he would probably defy classification as an “unreflective islamophobe” given the kinds of genuine haters of islam that there are out there who qualify much better for than description.

Again, your problem seems to be with the reluctance to accept your position that the only issue of significance in relation to islam is the involvement of Israel and jewish lobbies in using it to foment trouble. but islam is infinitely bigger than that, regardless of the undoubted truth in your allegations against Israel and the jewish lobbies.

We can get rid of Islamists but only w/o Islamophobia. With Islamophobia we will never secularize them

There is no reason to want to “secularize” islam unless your goal is securing US (and therefore Israeli) dominance. Iran operates fine (despite facing continuous economic aggression, active subversion and military threats by the world’s only superpower and its regional proxies) without secularisation, which essentially means the removal of anything of any real meaning from the religion, and leaving it a mere vehicle for political exploitation and in many cases for social radicalism, as organised secularised Christianity became some time ago in the US sphere.

As for the idea that it is only the existence of “islamophobes” that prevents your desired reconstruction of Islam, this would appear to be a complete fantasy. Indeed if there is an islamophobe here, it looks to be you rather than I.

Essentially don’t be a cuck. If you have to ask, they are not based. You’ll know it when you see it.

His problem in this circumstance is that he’s thinking with his peter.

I wish he were. If he had been, then he might have married one of the more attractive and appropriate women he’s been out with in the past.

https://media.glamour.com/photos/56959f3e16d0dc3747ecc5e3/master/w_2048,c_limit/beauty-2015-09-cressida-bonas-hair-main.jpg

The demographics of the US means it won’t matter in a few years, might delay the inevitable one party rule for a while though.

Loving how trashy and dysfunctional the Markles are, her siblings really don’t have much good to say about her, typical Hollywood type.

Clearly articulated practical and pragmatic goals might help.

It must drive you “Irish” Americans crazy to know that your cousins in Ireland overwhelmingly prefer British music, TV shows, and sports to the alternatives on offer from your side of the Atlantic and for the most part don’t have all these hang-ups about big, bad Anglos. That said, you are correct on this occasion. The cultural pollution produced by Britain these days is every bit as disgusting, degenerate, and naff as anything coming out of the USA.

Philip Owen – If I’m not mistaken a prominent member of Plaid Cymru once sneered at the Welsh assembly for being ‘too white’, or words to that effect. So-called Celtic nationalist parties are a joke. Apparently, the Breton (also Celtic) nationalists are leftists too.

So you have to be a jerk instead of just answering the question? Just say what it is instead of wasting my time you douchebag.

None of the people “phobias” make sense, in my view. Even xenophobia is used illogically nowadays, although it might have once made sense to characterize countries that where completely closed off to visitors, like some old Asian societies, such as Tibet, or Japan and Korea, where sailors were burnt alive, once on shore.

although to be fair Franco would almost certainly have acted similarly were he to have still had an overseas empire

But he did have one, there was Spanish Morocco, West Sahara and Spanish Guinea. Franco just gave them up since he realized the time for colonialism was over, even though he had once been quite enthusiastic about Spain’s colonial empire (he started his career in Spain’s Moroccan wars after all).

Hey Greasy,

Randal is right – I’d probably be labeled some sort of Islamist (it’s not our native term – so whatever). Islamist seems to range from anyone like the returned PM of Malaysia to Erdogan to Morsi to Daesh. Very difficult for me to keep track since I don’t really care what box others put me in – we have our own self-referential indigenous definitions.

But you are right in the sense that I can’t stand extremist groups like Daesh and other takfiri groups like them; they have killed thousands upon thousands of Muslims, dragged the name of the religion through the mud, killed innocents in non-Muslim countries which then serves to be a catalyst for more attacks on the Muslim world – I can’t think of a single positive that has come out of them.

But, yes; I take Islam very seriously – in fact I take the institution of religion very seriously. In a world that thinks religion is a hobby, a relic, or an annoyance at best, this is understandably thought of as quaint, if not insane:
“Make remembrance of God until the people call you mad (majnoon).” – Musnad of Imam Ahmad (ra)

Peace.

At least that’s the view of Stanley Payne in his recent Franco biography (which seems credible to me since Payne is generally quite sympathetic to Franco).

Payne’s sympathies are Phalangist which is not quite the same thing.

Salazar was basically pro-British in accordance with Portugal’s traditions iirc.

As far as I know, that is the case.

He only changed course somewhat when it became clear Germany was going to lose the war.

There were always two factions in Spain, a pro-German faction led by Serrano Sunyer and a pro-British faction led by Varela (among others). Franco seems to have seen the war as three separate conflicts: the German-Western war, the German-Soviet war, and the Japanese-Western war, though data as to his personal views is always suspect. Hitler was, to put it mildly, unsatisfied with Franco, and considered various options of getting rid of him, by assassination or invasion.

The Blue Division served several purposes, some of which were:
1. Getting the most pro-German militant elements far away from Spain
2. Paying the “blood debt” to Germany for their previous help
3. Paying back the Soviets for their previous actions

Though of course I think Franco would have felt unqualified joy if Moscow had fallen.

Payne’s sympathies are Phalangist which is not quite the same thing.

That’s not my impression at all, to put it mildly. Payne comes across more like some Christian conservative to me, definitely not sympathetic to fascism.

I totally get the nightmare scenario of #3. I have no problems with non-Muslim countries shutting down immigration.

weak immigration policies

I have no problem with non-Muslim countries deciding to ship Muslims back to countries of origin* either (I don’t really expect much from people that don’t have some kind of transcendental value system they hold themselves to – anything goes) – whatever the majority says. Just do it all legally, that’s not much to ask – right?

Peace.

*Note: As I’ve stated before – you will be doing a good number of them a huge favor since they are misbehaving and losing their souls in the West.

Really? I haven’t read his biography of Franco, just his work on the Falange, and that was the impression I got; perhaps his views changed?

I definitely got the impression that Payne is some kind of Christian conservative, even somewhat anti-nationalist I’d say. The books I’ve read by him (his Franco biography and two smaller books, “Spain: a unique history”, and a book about civil wars in Europe) are all relatively recent though, so maybe his views evolved over time.

Suicide rates are a good inverse marker for patience and resilience though.

That’s probably true in Sri Lanka, but it doesn’t explain countries like Japan, where suicide can be a dignified and respectable action.

What hit him was that when he was traveling in places where these relatively poor, traditional people lived, they opened up their homes for him; they gave him a place to stay, food, etc. and asked nothing in return.

This was true of the vast majority of the world until a few decades ago. It’s actually very true of Sri Lankans even now (especially the Sinhalese), except in some places which will not be named. I also don’t think of Moroccans as a particularly patient people, but perhaps I’m wrong. I think part of the difference is that people who think suicide is a mortal sin are, by and large, less likely to commit it.

he started his career in Spain’s Moroccan wars after all

And it seems he left part of himself there as well:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/5340068/Spanish-dictator-Franco-only-had-one-testicle.html

I don’t believe it. Hitler and Franco – both fascist dictators – both only had one testicle? This seems to follow on the general push to demasculate Hitler by making him homosexual, even in the face of him having a mistress.

What the hell are you blathering about.

Asking the Brits to be accountable for their choices and actions is a very American point of view? I’d say your post is very…British for attempting to skirt that accountability. You’re the ones who made a national fetish out of the sitcom “Friends.” We didn’t do that. You did.

Legally, is really a bit of a challenge. What is happening to Europe certainly has no legal basis – it is without the consent of the people and is therefore illegitimate.

I will go back to the example of Ireland. There was a plan to settle 100 “refugees” in a hotel in the village of Lisdoonvarna, which is a very picturesque cultural center, and only has about 300 permanent residents. There was a local vote. The people voted 93% “no”, but the “refugees” are being settled there anyway.

The Irish Constitution begins with these words: In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, We, the people of Éire, Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial…” In other words, it is an explicitly Christian country, and all actions to alter that are obviously illegal, whether codified into law or not.

Furthermore, the whole phenomenon of demographic transformation is made possible by theft through taxation. This theft is against God’s Law. It is Haraam.

I might add since you believe society is so corrupt (a belief many of us share), it seems inconsistent or at least naively optimistic to propound that a grassroots effort can change a trend through existing political channels. What is being done is often in violation of the law. Therefore changing the law won’t help. What about changing the politicians? Many bureaucrats involved are unelected. Others are elected by the outsiders who want to grow their group. Anyway, good luck finding the honest pols, or the ones that can survive the media onslaught. We don’t live in a democracy – Western countries are no more democracies than MENA countries.

You’re not based.

See, now we are getting somewhere. You are defining a transcendent purpose or goal.

Even though I have profound disagreements with Daniel Chieh and Anatoly Karlin, I respect them because they are both obviously religious people.

Daniel wants to colonize the stars, and Anatoly is interested in transhunanusm.

These are both obviously transcendent religious projects.

The hopelessness of most of the commenters here on the other hand is frightening. Randal is actually getting angry at me for trying to inject him with a bit of morale, and is ferociously trying to demoralize me!

I was musing about this last night – instead of thanking me for trying to raise his morale, he tries to lower my morale.

When the patient resists the cure you know the disease is very advanced.

I don’t think that’s correct.

It’s not because people are so comfortable – people are unwilling to sacrifice their comfort because they have no higher values.

So you have it backwards – people cling to their comfort because they have nothing higher, not because comfort is so amazing they can’t give it up.

Sure, words in themselves do not make sense but they function and from how they function you get their true sense and purpose.

Is there a worse duo than the paki/mystic?

In AK’s blog? I can’t think of any. This combination of mystical mumbojumbo and Islamic apologetics is easily the most irritating thing I’ve read here.

A very astute comment on so many levels–and I say that as an American myself. You are right about Washington’s baleful influence over Britain–not to mention the rest of Europe–and so was Enoch Powell. I’m sorry. I wish things were otherwise. Strangely enough, I sometimes feel as though our own country is under some sort of occupation, too.

I don’t know, I find it easier to understand the reasoning of Stalin defenders…even if I disagree, it’s still in a way part of a world I can relate to.
Talha’s thought is just completely foreign to me, as alien as a Martian. And AaronB reminds me of those con man preachers they have in America, with all their motivational talk of self-improvement. I hope he doesn’t start a cult.

Ramadan calls…

24-hour internet abstinence, or only sunrise to sunset?

Full – I’m going off the grid so to speak when it comes to forums and social media. I can’t completely turn off the internet since I manage a web development team and would be fired. If I told you my planned schedule – you’d think I’m nuts if you don’t already – starts at 3:00-3:15am ends at 11:30-11:45pm. Sleep is going to be a commodity hard to come by (opportunities for naps will be fully utilized) and my teachers have advised us to turn off any distractions.

Since it’s a thread about Britain…
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more…

Peace.

Financial independence certainly is important.

Anyone with alternator problems – depends on the make – but I’d really recommend replacing it yourself. There might only be three bolts, and you probably don’t need a jack, or to risk your neck getting underneath the vehicle. What you need: a cheap multimeter, a new alternator (presuming you don’t want to try to repair the old one), a ratchet set, and most likely also a breaker bar. I guarantee buying all that is cheaper than going to a mechanic. And even if you don’t care about the money, it feels good to be able to fix a physical problem.

Plus, many mechanics are A-holes, anyway. I once replaced a fuel pump merely because when I talked to the guy on the phone he insulted me by saying I didn’t know how to diagnose the problem properly. Felt pretty good, even though it was a hassle. And it gave me serious cheapskate bragging rights: cost me only $20.

You seriously believe that if the same energy would be expanded on shutting down Muslim organizations, as is expanded on shutting down nationalist organizations, then Muslims would have the slightest chance of organizing themselves?

The stuff the Communists did in Central Asia was far beyond what anyone in the West would legitimately even consider. One of my teachers traveled through there to visit the graves of the many, many elders of the Naqshbandi chain that rest there. The elders from those communities told him horror stories – no clue how many people disappeared. They used to teach Qur’an to groups of children locked away in hidden cavities of buildings and homes that had empty beer bottles strewn around so the authorities wouldn’t be suspicious.

Spiritual brotherhoods simply went clandestine – to arise decades later and take their prominent place in society again:
http://fletcher.tufts.edu/~/media/Fletcher/Microsites/praxis/xvi/Gaziev.pdf

But this requires vision far, far beyond what is directly in front of one – and a conviction that the clouds will inevitably pass. Pessimism is death. You are basically saying; it’s too difficult so there’s no use in the struggle.

And again – there is no need for violence as it is counterproductive.

Peace.

Tipu Sultan & the Marathas were French agents. Defence not conquest. Oudh, give you. Wellesley was a typical ambitious general who wanted wars.

We’re obviously talking about middle class welfare societies and western Muslims, not some Soviet republics with medieval economies. The surveillance alone is much easier, there will be video recordings or leaked emails to prove your hidden thoughts, something unavailable for the communists.

You are also talking about existing communities going underground. Not organizing new communities from scratch.

You are basically saying

I wrote what I wrote.

I understand there are threats to job etc – what I am saying is a truly motivated nationalist movement would figure out ways to organize financially so as to mitigate this threat, and would be willing to take some financial hits.

You are suggesting people may be willing to die heroically, but not live lives of grinding poverty for a cause. This is not true. Even in the case of Gaza, if they gave up their dreams and made peace with Israel they can have a much higher quality of life. But they prefer poverty, pursuing a dream that’s impossible by any rational standard. History is full of these examples.

Not to mention, there is no such thing as grinding poverty in the West. Basically, you’re saying everyone is super motivated – as motivated as anyone in history – but just aren’t willing to endure what historically would be considered actual comfort for their cause, because it isn’t what historically would be considered obsene opulence.

So – this unemployed loser nonsense needs to go. Be prepared to take financial hits and live simply anyways. Look at Thorffinnson Mr Money Mustache site – the guy is voluntarily living the way you say people are terrified of having to if they are cut off financially.

Look, you’re not the first group to face a difficult situation – all sorts of “impossible” scenarios became reality because determined and motivated people didn’t give up.

The practical barriers are not the issue here. They can all be overcome.

You need motivation and an end to individualism and materialism.

The spiritual issues have to be dealt with first, then you can focus on the practical issues.

You would be amazed at how having “skin in the game” can sharpen the intellect. You can’t even imagine now the resourceful and creativd solutions you’d come up once you’re seriously motivated.

I have seen this in my work time and again. A “stupid” person who under performs suddenly becomes quite capable once I figure out a way to get him motivated. We are also learning about the role of effort in enhancing IQ.

Well – I guess you’re toast then. 😉

Peace.

Good example for what nationalists in large parts of Europe are facing is what’s currently happening with the identitarians in Austria…although they’re completely non-violent, a leftie prosecutor is now trying to get them for allegedly having founded a criminal organization. The rationale is probably to bankrupt them through trial expenses.
Their leader Martin Sellner can’t even get a private bank account anymore because every bank closes it down due to pressure by Antifa. His private car has also been torched by Antifa.
The game is definitely rigged against any form of organized right-wing dissent.

I believe that Trump can only stave off the inevitable. To ‘save’ the country, however, as you mention, is extremely difficult.

The simple truth is that “demographics are destiny”. Right now, non-Hispanic whites are right around 50% of the newborn births. And they’ve been below 60% since at least the 1990’s. America’s white demographics are artificially inflated by boomers and the silent generation. 50% born in America… citizens… for life. Barring ethnic cleansing, civil war, or secession, these 50% non-white will forever be a part of the USA.

Now, the bright side. The one thing I agree with leftist on, is access to birth control, family planning, and abortion, if purely for demographic reasons. Progressive states such as Colorado are seeing massive reductions in black births, and Hispanic births are decreasing horrendously in California. New stats today showed that the black birthrate has declined by 9%, while Hispanic and Native are 18 and 27%, respectively. Asian birth rate is always low, just like in the mainland. Calling to ‘so-cons’… white people already have access to abortion and birth control whether you like it or not… their birth rates will not go down materially.

SO… I have a slight glimmer of hope for the USA… but that immigration really needs to be cut right now. Wall needs to be built immediately. And thirdly, but most importantly, white people need to start having more babies. Their numbers aren’t terrible in the USA, but not nearly good enough. I do see potential in a white renaissance in the USA among the young generation. They get mocked for being “SJW” but in fact nobody mocks “SJWs” more than people under 25. Some young white people (men) are waking up. And I’m not talking about the slobbering ‘alt-right’ losers. At the very least young white men are more open to traditional values such as fatherhood. Baby steps.

Self deportation is a real thing. Thousands of aliens are now coming to Canada from the USA. At a detriment to myself, of course, but Canada is a non-entity, and I would much rather preserve America for whites than Canada. If the USA did make a white comeback, Canada would potentially follow, although this country is totally off the rails in terms of immigration. It may be too late (it’s not too late for USA or Britain).

Time will tell, I give it 10%. Chances of a USA recovery are very slim, and are almost entirely contingent on one (buffoonish, flawed, and erratic) man, Donald J. Trump. It’s unclear whether he is even aware of s uch demographic realities, or if he truly believes in ‘civic nationalism’. Eastern Europe is not a ‘saviour’, though. If the USA becomes fully pozzed, they are toast.

God bless you, Donald Trump, and the American people. You are my last hope. Not by choice, I think you are a tool, but nonetheless I have thrown my weight behind you. What other choice do we have? Dick Spencer? hahaha.

PS the latest birth-statistics for Egypt indicates a whopping 60% drop in live-births. In 2015: 6.6 million babies -> in 2017 just 2,55 million babies.

Pardon my french, but that is a whopping load of horse shit. 2.6M were born in 2015, compared to 2.5M in 2017. The fertility rate dropped from around 3.5 children per woman, to 3.1, staying well above replacement. Unless you have some crazy obscure source, I think you’re pulling this out of tes fesses.

PS Here is my source:http://www.capmas.gov.eg/pdf/EgyptInFigure/EgyptinFigures/Tables/English/vital/vital%20statistics/index.html

Their leader Martin Sellner can’t even get a private bank account anymore because every bank closes it down due to pressure by Antifa.

That is an angle I had never considered before: most countries don’t have many banks.

I knew a German who came to America during the mid ’90s. Something he said about America that I thought was a good observation is that there are a lot of banks and churches. It is definitely less true today, but still quite true when compared to other countries, even Canada, which has very few banks in comparison.

‘Islamism’ is the very core of… Islam. I cannot but wonder why people constantly fail to see what is in plain view. It would be enough to shuffle through their sacred book to see that. Islam has its own dynamic which is to Islamize the world (i.e. to erase Christianity and ‘secularism’ and make everyone raise their bottoms five times a day), even if at times the Jews, or the British, or the French, or the Americans, believe that they can manipulate this dynamic for their own purposes (usually against their own Christian fellows, Russians for example), without realizing that they do that at their own peril (what we see in Europe).

Bonnie and Clyde?

Talha’s Bert and Ernie breaks down because Bert really does seem to be some sort of Islamic hardliner and Ernie is a mischievous puppet.

A typical “Bert and Ernie” skit has Ernie coming up with a harebrained idea and Bert attempting to talk him out of it

That was not entirely serious; don’t take it too harshly.

1. Establish a liberal welfare state.
2. Women no longer need men to support them.
3. Women enter the workforce and revel in their masculine-esque independence.

You’ve got history backwards. Poverty brought women into the workforce way before welfare existed, and obviously not everyone had a man who could support them. Here’s a blog about Victorian laundresses:

Since washing and ironing were such exhausting exercise, every housewife dreamed of just taking dirty clothes to the laundry. Those who became laundresses were elderly women, widows or housewives who needed additional income. Husbands of the latter were often seasonal workers with unstable income, disabled people or alcoholics, so the wife had to take the provider function upon herself.
https://b-a-n-s-h-e-e.livejournal.com/243027.html

We all may have read (if Russian, were forced to at school) how Dostoyevsky’s Sonya Marmeladova became a seamstress and then a prostitute because her alcoholic father couldn’t provide. And here’s a story about proto-welfare introduced in a factory to alleviate existing conditions of female workers, from Vikenty Veresaev’s Notes of a Doctor.

In the 1820s, according to Villermé’s research, half of the children of Mühlhausen’s women weavers died before the age of fifteen months. Villermé convinced factory owner Dolfus to let his workers stay home after childbirth for six weeks with their wages kept; this alone was enough to cut infant mortality in half, at once, without any help of medicine.

What were the fathers of those babies doing, is unknown. I wonder what the weavers would say to Americans who think paid maternity leave is an evil commie thing… some colorful German swearing probably.

Poverty didn’t bring women into the workforce at all. Women were always part of the workforce. In hunter-gatherer times women gathered, and in agricultural times peasant women did all kinds of work.

Women not working was traditionally only the province of upper class women, who did a lot of “work” in terms of their socializing. Middle and working class women not working was a brief blip of the unusual and unnatural egalitarianism of the postwar era.

The issue isn’t women working so much as it is female independence, and women focusing on careers before is a symptom of that. And, to be fair, men now being able to access sex easily (or things close enough to sex) outside of marriage.

Paid maternity leave would be fine if it had eugenic rules associated with it and strictly went to babies born to married parents. I have a pet idea that paid maternity leave should be required but it should also be perfectly legal to discriminate against women and pregnancy. 🙂

Even in the case of Gaza, if they gave up their dreams and made peace with Israel they can have a much higher quality of life.

That’s not much of a choice for ordinary Gazans. The choice is accept the lower quality of life or face retribution from others for being a traitor while still not being accepted by Israel.

What if you tried to think of a better example?

Basically, you’re saying everyone is super motivated – as motivated as anyone in history –

You are fighting a straw man. There are enough motivated young men who join movements like identitarians. They cannot get much traction, because that kind of activism has always been for a minority only. I got annoyed at idiotic comparisons with totally non-comparable situations, like you are doing.

I have seen the fall of communism as a teenager. It was easier in part because the communists never provided enough material comfort to people (enough means more than the ideological opponents in Western Europe), and people didn’t like “what historically would be considered obsene opulence”. It was also easier because it was obviously forced on the country by foreign invaders at gunpoint.

But the dynamics weren’t that different: very few people were joining the opposition, and they were constantly harassed and lost their jobs (oh, Soros paid them money, so some then dissidents have now admitted that their living standards actually didn’t even decrease at all), but no one was executed or put into forced labor camps. A few people might have been locked up (like now), but not many.

And then suddenly the system collapsed. We now know it was because of a loss of morale at the very top in the USSR. We can only hope that the very top of the American empire will similarly become progressively more and more stupid. It looks likely it will, but there’s no telling when it will collapse. Could come suddenly, but might take decades. I’d say a couple of decades. I don’t know how late it will be for our civilization by then.

but just aren’t willing to endure what historically would be considered actual comfort for their cause, because it isn’t what historically would be considered obsene opulence.

You don’t seem to understand humans, despite having almost twenty-five years of life experience.

They also don’t blow themselves and others up.

Neither did mohammedan guest workers 50 years ago. Islamic terrorism might be a meme that passes. I haven’t heard of the Baader-Meinhoff Gang lately for instance, or of much trouble from the Irish.

But yes, for now that’s positive.

Though actually I regard Islamic terrorism as positive, as it makes it easier to convince others they must be gotten rid of.

Before I edited my post I said they’re just better than mohammedans and blacks–confined it to blacks to focus more on the Unz issue.

They are probably comparable to the southern Italian peasants that flooded into the USA 100 or more years ago. Under the right conditions they can eventually turn out like those did. The problem, of course, is that America does not have the right conditions for that; instead it offers easy welfare, and little to no pressure to assimilate WASPish values. However in states that have relatively better conditions, such as Texas, results are better.

They’re not comparable to Southern Italians, who do not have Amerindian DNA. Americans have been living with Indians for centuries, and they’ve never once come close to converging in any respect. And in Latin America you can simply observe the color spectrum. The higher you go, the whiter it gets.

The bottom line is that they are racially inferior. And even if you were right, and an appropriate culture could get them performing as well as us, you would still need to deal with the fact that they are short and ugly. Why would I want to share a country with short and ugly people?

But I think Yevardian was speaking in relative terms: we don’t have nearly the problem that they have in Europe.

What do you mean we, Kemosabe? Until now I only hear about we wuz yuropeanz n sheet about the Ukraine from you.

They are probably comparable to the southern Italian peasants that flooded into the USA 100 or more years ago. Under the right conditions they can eventually turn out like those did. The problem, of course, is that America does not have the right conditions for that; instead it offers easy welfare, and little to no pressure to assimilate WASPish values. However in states that have relatively better conditions, such as Texas, results are better.

But I think Yevardian was speaking in relative terms: we don’t have nearly the problem that they have in Europe.

Mexico’s economy is somewhere half way between Ukraine and Russia, in GDP per capita.

In my personal experience (I have studied alongside Mexicans in the internal summer courses), some are clearly more advanced and civilized than average people in Europe or America.

. And even if you were right, and an appropriate culture could get them performing as well as us, you would still need to deal with the fact that they are short and ugly. Why would I want to share a country with short and ugly people?

I already know it is not completely true.

I just remember one of the summer language courses I took when I was a teenager (in a countryside near London – appropriately for this topic about visiting England). There was a beautiful brown girl from Mexico City. The most beautiful girl on the course. About 1,75 meters. Also on this same course there was a beautiful pale quiet girl from Chile.

IslamiStIslamist movements have taken off as a reaction against Western dominance not out of some insane scheme to convert the world. The entry of US troops into Saudi Arabia set Bin Laden off in targeting Westerners for attacks, similarly you usually see a spike in terrorist attacks when one Muslim country or another is being bombed by the West. The dominant narrative of Islamists is that Islam is being attacked on all sides by those who want to eliminate Muslims not world conquest.

The Muslim practice of prayer was borrowed from Eastern Orthodox Christians who similarly raise their bottoms in the air as you term it to prostrate themselves before the Almighty.

But in the UK (and for all I know in the US) Muslims and other minorities are privileged under law. We don’t live in Central Asia, either geographically or mentally.

Equality now is literally defined as NOT treating everyone the same – you can have a housing project for Muslims only but not for Christians only. Muslims and Jews get to the front of the queue for death certificates, because their culture and religion requires quick burial, but a Christian baker in Belfast HAS to bake cakes bearing pro-homosexual slogans and never mind his culture or religion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43922000

Eastern Europe will be fine whether or not the US becomes Hispanic thankyou.

Lets put it this way: would you be ok with Eastern Europe being majority Mexican? If not then how can you expect other whites to be ok with it?

Anatoly, thanks.

The last political demonstration I spontaneously (more or less) joined out of human sympathy was a pro-Second Amendment group that was demonstrating in favor of more liberalized gun laws in Ohio. The demonstration had been preceded by a few local pols uttering some truly awful demonizing ad hominem crap about gun owners. I’m not a gun owner, but I favored liberalization, I knew gun owners to be sober and law-abiding types, and I was genuinely horrified by the rhetoric of a few local political slobs.

I showed up. The demonstrators were polite and made their points quietly and with conviction. They were well-groomed, some dressed in American Wild West style.

Anyway, I’ve proposed on these pages a while back a Million Geek March on Washington to protest the proletarianization of America’s managerial, technical, and professional classes. Keep the optics good with white shirts, keep the talking points simple, and work on good follow-through. Anyone out there with the right organizational chops and bankroll?

My daughter is only half-white theoretically (though everyone is surprised when I tell them, so for the moment she looks white). Maybe I’m personally not toast.

Anyway, since nationalists are in such a weak position now, their hope lies mostly in their enemies making mistakes. The system oppressing them is not sustainable anyway, so over time it will collapse. It’s a question what will be salvaged from the rubble.

“Million Geek March canceled amid fears participants will be called nasty names by the New York Times and Tom Brokaw.”

Daniel, bro’, you wanna read that story? Think about it—we’re already being characterized as weird-asses living on the underside of wet rocks. I’m seeing here on UR a talented commentariat with real grievances that need to be well-framed and see the light of day.

Main component were white men, muscular-fat, tattooed prole types, the sort you associate with football hooligans;

Your photos don’t match this description.

My opinion is the investment with the best return is to fund this fella.

What is especially pathetic is that Austria now has a theoretically kinda sorta nationalist government.

With emphasis on “now”.
Austria has been dominated by social democrats and cuckseratives for many decades and the federal president is a former Green politician.

Franco wasn’t really artful in avoiding WW2 involvement though, he actually would have liked to join on the Axis side since he had quite delusional ideas about making Spain a great imperial power again. It’s just that he never felt the time was quite right and that Spain clearly wasn’t ready for entering the war given its rather wrecked economy.

IOW, he wasn’t delusional.

Mae culpa,

i just read the ticker-headline on some other site a few weeks ago. But radio-broadcast from one of the public-channel states that Al-Sisi reintroduced the family-program and most importantly rolls it out to the rural communes. We will see how fast it goes down. After all the Tiger economies needed 20 years.

Cuckservative and liberal meme.

I don’t care who says something, the data are important.

The mestizos are racially different

Correct. They are about 40% European-Spanish.

lower IQ

Correct. Jensen, who demonstrated that African lower IQ is organic in nature, also insisted that Native American and Mestizo lower IQ is environmental in nature, the same for European peasants from an earlier time.

This of course isn’t a good argument for immigration – we don’t need a large influx of people with low IQ people into the modern economy.

Ron Unz:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/race-iq-and-wealth/comment-page-2/

Ron Guhname, who styles himself “The Inductivist” and every couple of days publishes a new finding on his website. In 2008, he decided to explore the Wordsum-implied IQ of American-born Mexican-Americans and discovered a remarkable result. These IQs were quite low, 84–85, in the 1970s and 1980s, a result consistent with the IQ samples reported by Lynn/Vanhanen for that era. But the Mexican-American IQ then jumped 7 points by the 1990s and an additional 3 points by the 2000s, a rise of 10 full points in just 20 years, while the Wordsum-implied IQ values for white Americans rose merely 2 points during that same period, presumably as an aspect of the regular Flynn Effect.

In actual values, the Mexican-American Wordsum-IQ increased from 84.4 in the 1980s to 95.1 in the 2000s, while the rise for American whites was from 99.2 to 101.3. In addition, the late 1990s IQ of U.S.-born Mexican-Americans has been separately estimated at 92.4 from the large data set contained in the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (NLSY-97), a figure consistent with these Wordsum-IQ findings.

Thus, almost two-thirds of the IQ gap between American-born Mexican-Americans and whites disappeared in two decades, with these results being based on nationally-representative American samples of statistically significant size. Since Guhname is a right-wing blogger quite hostile to Hispanic immigration, it is to his credit that he published this result without hesitation, and to the embarrassment of America’s vast multicultural academic and media establishment that they had never independently discovered these important findings, nor indeed even noticed them once they appeared. In any event, it appears that Mexican-American IQs in America have been rising about as rapidly as Irish IQs seem to have risen in Europe.

more violent

Ron Unz dispelled this myth:

http://www.unz.com/article/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/

Did you know that El Paso, Texas – 80% Mexican – has the lowest homicide rate among large US cities?

socially less conservative

So are modern day poor whites, who have high rates of illegitimacy (see Murray’s Coming Apart).

Poor Mexicans are largely acting like poor white people do. I suspect 100 years ago when poor white people were more moral, Mexicans were also.

with much less contact to their homeland, had actual pressure on them to assimilate to Anglo norms

These are problems that I described also.

Anyways, the point being – Americans are very lucky compared to Europeans with respect to their immigration situation.

If that is what you reckon then there is not much use in trying to persuade you otherwise. Muslims are quite aware of how backward, poor and weak their societies are. The prospect of taking on the rest of the world is a pipe dream.

Mexico’s economy is somewhere half way between Ukraine and Russia, in GDP per capita

Sure, in per capita terms. It even beats Belarus! But it is distributed much less evenly. Mexico’s top 10% live well. In Mexico the richest 10% make 22x more than do the poorest 10%. In Ukraine and Belarus these figures are 6x more and 7X more, respectively.

So statistics about average income in Mexico don’t tell us much about how typical Mexicans live.

Data from 2012:

https://www.worldeconomicsassociation.org/newsletterarticles/inequality-in-mexico/

Mexicans in the middle 10% made 1843 pesos or 93.44 American dollars per month!

These figures of course do not take into account cost of living and things have improved since 2012 – but you can get an idea.

In my personal experience (I have studied alongside Mexicans in the internal summer courses), some are clearly more advanced and civilized than average people in Europe or America

I have a few friends of wealthy Latin American backgrounds. An old acquaintance from university married a Mexican girl, the daughter of a diplomat. The situation down there is a much milder version of Eastern Europe prior to the Industrial Revolution. Well-educated, wealthy, well-traveled, civilized elite, illiterate or semi-literate masses (I’ve noticed that educated Latinos tend to enjoy classic Russian literature more than other people do, perhaps it depicts a world not completely unfamiliar to theirs). The reason for Polish jokes in the USA is that a lot of Polish peasants in the 19th century came to America.

Impressions on the whole I’ve have of Hispanics are positive and if on the whole they’re dim, they’re at least good natured and have no animus against western civilisation, being a peripheral part of it themselves.

Pretty much. They speak a European language and follow a European religion.

A Mexican party, allegedly in Texas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzgH1uwt9vU

what the Jews teach theirs – that anything is possible, and that physical comfort isn’t particularly important.

KEK, have you ever met a Jew? Perhaps this is what they teach them in Israel (I wouldn’t know), it certainly isn’t in Western countreis

What is especially pathetic is that Austria now has a theoretically kinda sorta nationalist government.

Problem is that the ÖVP probably isn’t really reliable, I’ve seen Austrian right-wingers on the net voice the suspicion that Kurz is basically a con man, tasked by the establishment with defanging the right.

The interesting thing is that not only are these identitarians nonviolent, I think they are anti-”racism” and even anti-evolution, too.

No, I think you’re totally wrong about that, the identitarians in Germany and Austria are pretty much explicit ethnic nationalists. They claim to be against “racism” in the sense of not explicitly believing in racial hierarchies, wanting to rule over other races etc., but favour ethnopluralism (pretty much “we don’t care what they’re doing in their countries, but keep them out of ours”).

Nope, never met a Jew. Please educate me on what American Jews teach their kids.

In my personal experience (I have studied alongside Mexicans in the internal summer courses), some are clearly more advanced and civilized than average people in Europe or America.

Yes…some. What sort of Mexican do you think studies abroad in Europe?

Mexico is allegedly 9% white, with the upper classes being heavily white. Take former Mexican President Vicente Fox for instance, a blue-eyed 6’5″ retired Coca Cola executive of Irish descent. Not exactly your typical Mexican, who has Spanish Y-DNA and Amerindian matrilineal DNA and whose grandparents were not even literate.

Mexico’s economy is also artificially larger than it deserves to be owing to bordering the United States and the criminally irresponsible NAFTA treaty.

Yes, people you’d meet studying in the summer are typical and representative of the relatively unintelligent 100-million-plus Indio and mestizo population of Mexico — and of their huge-assed cousins who are colonizing the former USA.

Dmitry, man, i am glad for your positive experiences with Mexicans, and of course I’ve had them as well. But don’t be naive, get out more and get a wider acquaintance with Mexicans 😉

I see sexy Mexican women every day because there are soooooo many Mexicans here in LA. I also have a Mexican friend who is quite intelligent and thoughtful (almost all Indian, from southern Mexico) and a Mexican acquaintance who is an impressive intellect and personality (pretty much completely white). I’m aware of the physical and intellectual diversity in that population.

But I also see a FAR greater number of absolutely hideous waddling trolls. Usually with an enormous iPhone sticking out of the back pocket of their equally enormous jeans. Often with children in tow for whom I am buying groceries, medical care, and “education.”

I associate with three younger Mexican-“American” women at work. Each one more morbidly obese than the next, and two of them semiliterate in two languages despite having graduated from those fine LA Government high schools. I’ve recounted elsewhere how one of them matter of flatly told me that she was not going to marry her boyfriend so that she could keep her MediCal benefits, even though they have a child together and plan to have another.

The pipe dream proceeds apace in the UK and most of western and Central Europe, though, doesn’t it?

I think any religion is better than modern secularism.

So you think that Mosul before the Americans bombed it was better than Stockholm?

Foreign policy has been perhaps the biggest letdown of the Trump Presidency, but alignment with Saudi Arabia doesn’t cause problems with that at all. Islamic governments don’t give a shit at all about our immigration policy. Actual mohammedan governments apparently love Trump in fact, probably because they’re impressed with his machismo and swagger.

What precludes cracking down on mohammedan immigration completely (as in 100%, other than maybe intracompany executive transfers) is just baby boomerism and the idea that one must have “equality” and “fairness” etc.

And of course The Enemy, which means we’re presently unable to pass restrictionist legislation in Congress. And without such legislation we’ll get swamped by chain migration.

The President technically has the power to suspend all immigration by executive order, but this will be (illegally) stopped by the courts. And for some reason Trump keeps obeying these black-robed terrorists. If we get lucky he takes a good look at the painting of Andrew Jackson he hung in the Oval Office and learns about how Old Hickory dealt with the terrorist kritarchs of his time.

Apples and oranges.

Stockholm a century ago however was much better than Stockholm today, other than that tunelbanan (the subway) did not open until 1950.

And even in the subway the cultural collapse is obvious, and was obvious before there were any non-whites using it.

The stations are for instance full of “art”. The “art” in question being hideous garbage.

You can also compare all the buildings in Stockholm built before the war to those built after.

You can also compare all the buildings in Stockholm built before the war to those built after.

I don’t see how that has necessarily anything to do with religion/secularism, the more obvious culprits are mass society and socialism imo.

Yes, modern secular society is also suicidal.

Maybe, but your statement “any religion is better than modern secularism” is still idiotic. Do you want to tell us that some cult worshipping the Aztec rain god, putting children into cages and fattening them up for sacrifice would be preferable to modern Western secularism, which in any case still contains significant elements of its Christian heritage?
If so, you’re simply a moron, sorry.

Hmmm, I would rather teach my children what the Jews teach theirs

Okay, sounds like a plan. Update us on how it turns out.

We underwent some kind of cultural collapse in the 20th century, and part of this cultural collapse involves the loss of religion. This cultural collapse is physically manifest in our cities.

Of course it would be unfair to blame all of this on religion, or even culture.

Some of it is just technology. For instance with traditional building materials and techniques, it is nearly impossible to build a hideous building. It can be done, but requires effort.

With modern building technology like reinforced concrete, steel frames, etc. it is in fact quite easy to build ugly structures. My factory for instance is a steel building. It’s ugly. If it were built a century ago it would’ve been built of brick and be handsome.

And then there’s the motor car. Car-oriented development is usually ugly.

But this still doesn’t explain why after the war it became in fact highly fashionable to design and construct buildings intentionally designed to be hideous. Boston City Hall being a particularly amusing example.

I oppose making statements about the innate qualities of Mexicans when they are currently the products of secularism

You’re right; we should judge their human-sacrificing ancestors instead

How so? They are running away from countries run by Muslims to ones that are not. About the only non-Muslim country which officially recognises Shariah law is Israel which of course is well known for its solicitous and docile attitude towards the followers of Islam.

For what it is worth, I think that you may have misjudged German_Reader in some ways.

He is an academic, if I recall correctly; if he was a peak materialist, he would almost certainly be trying to maximize a wage somewhere and Germany still being one of the best places in Europe to do that. He presumable values the hopes that his work would be more value than joining the teeming mass of workers, although given the current academic environment and the likely attitudes of his colleagues, it probably effectively creates a daily hostile and rather depressing environment to live in, with a lot of sunk cost of effort as well.

I think that Mr. Karlin once addressed this: a lot of things are rational, but paradoxically are evolutionarily un-ideal. It is most rational to live one’s life as a hedonist and not be worried about any future beyond one’s life, at least if the stated goal is to maximize pleasure. It can be a poor strategy genetically, however.

There’s a reasonable argument that the modern environment wrecks havoc with our evolved senses and instincts, and leads to a number of issues, e.g. obesity, childlessness, and so on. The story of Rat Utopia, for example, would seem to be a potential animal model for this.

I think that Mr. Karlin once addressed this: a lot of things are rational, but paradoxically are evolutionarily un-ideal

That’s true, but I still think it’s very difficult to consciously adopt a belief because you know it to be useful…it feels intellectually dishonest to me.
And in any case, at least the Western European forms of Christianity are definitely maladaptive today since they’re all about throwing the borders open as wide as possible and welcoming millions of Muslims. Both irrational and evolutionarily likely to be a dead end.

Ah, but I have finally understood that they hang together – individualism goes with materialism, community with spirituality. The reason is that a sense of community depends on seeing invisible bonds that units you. The more you examine the issue, the more you see there is a common root for all modern phenomena, and a common root for all pre-modern phenomena. We cannot pick and choose, because they are manifestations of an underlying master idea.

As for “seeing the world as it is” – he ha ha. You are German, but apparently you have not read your Kant. A pity. H showed that our senses, combined with our logical faculty, produce a picture of reality that contradicts itself, if applied with absolute consistency. Yet you ignore this and babble on about “seeing the world as it is”. Materialism is not seeing the world as it is – it is a dogmatic position that ignores its own self-contradictions. To briefly touch the tip of the iceberg – supposedly our minds are products of evolution, whose guiding principles is survival not truth, yet our senses and logical mind are vehicles for seeing the world as it is!

You live in a mental prison – your conceit that it is “reality” is a childish self-consoling device, meant to gratify your ego.

Well, getting your heart ripped out has meaning. It means that you got captured, it means that you offended the spirits, it shall inspire your kinsmen to avenge you(maybe), and your death will be witnessed by dozens if not hundreds. Our ego always places us in the center of the world, and in the lower population and more interconnected world this represents, the victim really is a center of his known world for a moment. This is a large part of Ted Kaczynski’s argument for the sense of significant goals in the pre-modern world.

Contrast that to dying alone in a derilum, likely unmourned and forgotten, and probably inspired due to a life where everything he thought should be natural became impossible: love, family, status, being valued. When surrogate goals vanish in the atomization of today’s world, there is a certain profound tragedy that even death has become atomized and de-illusioned of meaning.

Ok, so the worst form of twisted religion – a perversion birthed by the strains of religions collision with nihilistic modernity – may be as bad – in some way as worse in some ways better – than secular modernity. However, it contains the seeds of recovery within its self, because it has not lost itself in the fundamental falsehood of materialism.

None of this changes the fact that religion is indispensable, and secular modernity the only hopeless dead end street.

As for “seeing the world as it is” – he ha ha.

I didn’t mean to refer to the deeper layers of reality with that (I don’t presume to understand those), but to situations like the likely future of the UK…your reaction to Randal’s well-founded concern (“Just believe in God, everything will turn out fine!”) was just silly, the equivalent of telling someone with cancer “Think positive, and it will be all right!”. That’s just a refusal to grapple with hard, depressing realities and come up with some platitudinous nonsense about self-improvement, positive thinking etc. (which strikes me as a very American reaction btw).
And stop your idiotic lecturing me about my alleged “materialism”, as if I were some superficial consumer cretin only interested in getting more stuff and nice vacations. You know almost nothing about me and my personal beliefs, your presumptuous claim that you have figured me out (and plenty of other commenters like Randal or for-the-record as well) is completely unjustified.

Okay, so in your world it’s better to get caught by the Aztecs and have your heart ripped open than to choose to OD on heroin.

Well, getting your heart ripped out has meaning. It means that you got captured, it means that you offended the spirits, it shall inspire your kinsmen to avenge you(maybe), and your death will be witnessed by dozens if not hundreds

Correct. I’m not sure if this makes it good. Many of the Aztecs’ victims weren’t locals and actually welcomed and helped the Spaniards who ended the Aztec civilization.

the victim really is a center of his known world for a moment.

As is someone bound and gagged and tortured to death in his own chamber by a serial killer.

Contrast that to dying alone in a derilum, likely unmourned and forgotten, and probably inspired due to a life where everything he thought should be natural became impossible: love, family, status, being valued.

I agree that this is sad and pathetic. But saying it’s somehow worse or equal to Aztec mass religious sacrifice because it doesn’t have the epic quality of being tortured and sacrificed in public seems to be bizarre.

Yes.

I, for one, would choose being ritually sacrificed in front of a crowd over dying alone of a drug overdose.

I like public speaking and taught a high school class before.

I

reject that characterization.

I am glad to hear it.

I probably should be doing more though…instead of writing comments on Unz review.

One thing you might do is help spread non-materialism – and thus the sources of motivation and self-respect – among your fellow Germans 🙂

Oh, come – we all need to be provoked from time to time 🙂 We need to be prodded out of our lethargy.

I like German reader, that’s why I argue with him.

I think you would have liked Thai human sacrifice a lot:

Historical evidence reportedly shows, that the founding of a new town required voluntary or ‘involuntary’ sacrifice of one or more victims. The favoured victims were pregnant women, who were impaled under the posts which supported the fortifications. It was believed the spirits of pregnant women who died, would make ferociously supernatural agents and protect the inhabitants of the town from all manner of other bad entities and spirits.

As voluntary victims were usually not easy to come by! government officials accompanied by guards would knock on houses and walk the streets, calling out four names : Juu, Jang, Man and Khong (all common Thai names), if a person, thinking that they was being summoned, opened their door or turned their head in their direction, then that person was regarded as ‘designed by fate’, and were seized and taken away. After a short retreat and a sumptuous banquet, the victim or victims so obtained were solemnly taken to the gate and buried alive under a foundation beam

A lot of people passed through those gates, until they needed to make new ones and chose new victims. By the 1870s, (in such time as “The King and I”, they supposedly mostly seized bums. But, in any, case it was usually the lower economic strata. Sometimes, the victims became the house spirits of royalty, so you may say that their spirits lived on in mansions, of important government officials, no less.

Why would I “like” this?

Of course, I am trolling a bit, but I think AP summed it up well. Plus, it seems perhaps a bit more functional and restrained than what the Meso-Americans typically did.

I believe a lot of human sacrifice had a kind of similar arc, where it became a lot rarer and they focused mostly on low level criminals. By the time of the Second Punic War human sacrifice was believed to be quite uncommon in Rome. IIRC, when the city was surrounded, or else under threat, they still threw a few people off the Tarpeian rock.

I think one can even make a reasonable argument that human sacrifice persisted in a very low level form in European civilization until relatively recently. Witch burnings. Public executions. They were a type of social glue that helped hold the state and the public together.

I’d even go a bit further and say that even the spirit of it persists today. For instance, how many of the people who believe in global warming have really taken a hard look at the data? In how many is it really just a belief about Mother Earth that demands sacrifice? And how many of those are spiritual people but not religious?

There are some odd phrases one hears today that to my imagination are so bizarre that one can almost think that they are the result of some genetic vestige of a propensity to human sacrifice – perhaps itself an evolutionary strategy. Right side of history. Moral arc of the universe. Psychic unity of mankind. Sort of a tangent, but if you ever saw the Cameron movie Avatar the environmental themes, the humans being killed, and in one scene all the blue people swaying together in unison kind of evokes the same feeling.

Once again…what sort of Mexican do you think takes a summer language course in London? Someone from the upper class. Quite noteworthy that she was from Mexico City as well, which is the capital of Mexico and has a heavy concentration of elites. Most wealthy people in Mexico in fact live in Mexico City (or Monterrey).

And yes, there are some beautiful mestizas. But on the whole they are uglier (and absolutely shorter–and it’s not good to be short), and even if that were not true I value the preservation of the recessive Northern European phenotype.

Sure there must be a wide variety of people there. And I don’t doubt plenty of millions of less civilized cattle.

My point was just that the statement was not completely true, as I know for a fact for real life.

You know a lot of the time on the internet, we have these weird situations. For example, ugly people (I’m not saying you – but in general), calling ‘ugly’ nationalities of people which must also encompass thousands of 10/10 beautiful women, which would be above their own dating level in real life.

It suddenly seems very weird when you contrast people ‘talking shit’ on internet (how they themselves usually look), with real life.

• As for inside America itself. I have travelled in America – the last time was only last summer. My older brother is working for the year in California. We drove all over California.

I remember a lot of Latin people working as waiters. My impression was very modest people who you do not even notice.

The fatness aspect seems to be a percentage of all the races there (although there’s plenty of people who are healthy looking there as well).

Personal experience has not been bad, for example I also know a very pretty (somewhat brown-skinned, but mostly European looking with some mystery meat sauce) and also apparently smart Mexican girl (well, a distant acquaintance), but obviously the kinds of diverse people we will meet will be a very small self-selected sample, so just anecdotes.

The plural of anecdotes is data, and data doesn’t show them to be so good.

I’m sure that differences, partly inherited, in intelligence and personality distributions do exist between population groups.

At the same time, the data is not currently very reliable in this area, and can sometimes fall apart when I look into it.

I think we already discussed this PISA tests which don’t measure anything, except your tolerance for weird question.

So it’s not a case where you can so easily ‘defer to data’, above personal experience – in the way that you would of course say we should do, if we are given real scientific data, including mechanism of action, of how smoking causing cancer. And then clearly deferring to this data, above anecdotes like “my grandfather smokes every day but has lived to 107”.

This is ‘sociology’ quality data, so we need to keep it in a bit of parenthesis.

As for an overall issue about immigration, of the course the Americans should have closed it down since years ago. Especially in relation to conservation of cultural identity and political consensus. But in some way this is too obvious to need to debate.

Internal to?

Oops this was supposed to be ‘international’.

As a result of all these courses, I can write perfect English when I concentrate – but I’m not always concentrating enough to write down the right words.

If you continue to call Mexicans generally “placid,” you’re not talking about the reality of the mass of Mexicans that I encounter here and far from LA as well.

Most of these Mexicans in the USA do NOT meaningfully follow a European religion, if you mean Christianity. And a large, growing number of them don’t follow Christianity even nominally.

They go to church more often than white people do:

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/attendance-at-religious-services/by/racial-and-ethnic-composition/

Anyway, how comforting is it that the guy who just had a third child out of wedlock

Is there a big difference between Mexicans and white people of their same social class (poor) with respect to this sort of behavior?

As for speaking a European language, there are actually a large number of Indio Mexicans in the USA who are not literate in Spanish and don’t even regularly speak Spanish, and some who CAN’T speak Spanish.

A good point. Do you have figures for % of these?

Finally, millions of Mexican-”Americans” are semi-literate and barely articulate even in Spanish,

Were Irish, Polish, or Italian peasants who came over 120 years ago different?

I don’t disagree with the view that the immigrants are not necessarily the ‘best people’. Probably few things worse for a country than being flooded by low class cattle of other nationalities.

There should support building a wall against it, and deportation of communities of troublemakers.

I disagree with the idea of judging all nationalities by their most annoying kids though. Every nationality produces this kind of behaviour in the bottom part of society.

You don’t need black demographics to have these people. Just look at drunk and criminal population in less great suburbs like Uralmash. If authorities were more evil, they’d start some project (e.g. issuing them all with fake PhDs in astrophysics) to get them to successfully immigrate to America.

Trump already said Mexico is trying to send its criminals to America.

Interesting that you assume that people in our society typically die alone and are forgotten and unmourned. Not true of anyone in my family or anyone whom we know. Straw man.

Getting tortured, terrified, and murdered by the Aztecs didn’t make the victim important or meaningful and such nonsense should provide zero comfort to the victims, their families, or their descendants.

If we are to all be judged by the quality of our political leaders or by the worst of our countrymen, then we are all damned to hell.

I’ve known many Germans. Some were good folks, not at all crazy. Some were pretty batshit insane, but I wouldn’t even wish it on the crazies, though they seem to desire it. That is perhaps in their nature, and it may be a deficiency that they have no volition over. It is kind of heartbreaking because even some of the nuts also have good qualities, beyond their very bad ones. I can’t help but think they would have been different in a different society. Perhaps, not so crazy, if, for instance, they went to church weekly, or if censorship over Hollywood hadn’t been lost.

If you think the average Mexican benefited from NAFTA then you’re economically illiterate.

No one ever talked about the Irish gap or the Polish gap or the Italian gap

People didn’t think in terms of IQ or even educational achievement back then. But they noticed if a group seemed to be very dimwitted- hence all the Polish jokes.

I know a lot of people (contra Ron Unz) who have been attacked by informal gangs of Hispanic youths, and in the suburbs.

The data show that despite such anecdotes Mexicans are not much more dangerous than similarly poor, young whites. Puerto Ricans, on the other hand, are more dangerous.

El Paso, 80% Mexican, is the safest large city in America.

I lived in Chicago. The collective wisdom of people not afraid to speak their mind (usually – Poles, Russians or Ukrainians) is that one doesn’t go into black areas at all, one doesn’t go to Puerto Rican areas at night and is cautious during the day, but Mexican areas are okay. Or at least similar to working class white areas, rather than the ones populated by rich white people (which are safest of all and about as safe as Europe or Canada).

GK Chesterton wrote an essay a long time ago against the idea of an electrical house.

I certainly do not agree with him now, nor would I think I would have at the time, in the extreme of his rhetoric. I would say that social values were still quite strong long after all the things he railed against (for instance: the radio) were introduced. Parts of my family were far from where they were born, but none without a sense of community or family. Still, if you can find it sometime, it might be an interesting read for you. Perhaps, he was prescient.

In a way, I think a lot of the bad stuff we are seeing today is the result of technology. SJWs are primarily the result of technology and the easy living it has created, IMO. Though I am not promoting Ludditism, but rather more self-awareness and caution.

We are comparing to back then, not now.

The average Mexican in 1994 was probably a peasant and thus got wrecked by American imports.

But Mexico’s per capita GDP and especially its manufacturing sector are much greater than they would be if it were located somewhere else in the world, or there was no NAFTA treaty.

It’s an extremely offensive situation as there shouldn’t be any factories in Mexico, and the idea that they should be permitted to negotiate with us is absurd. The appropriate, natural status of Mexico is a protectorate whose foreign and economic policies are set by the United States.

But they noticed if a group seemed to be very dimwitted- hence all the Polish jokes.

I haven’t heard too many, but the ones that I heard were only about Poland, never about Poles abroad. This leads me to believe they have a different source than a perception about Poles being stupid.

By my theory: Poland was really the major satellite country in the Eastern Bloc. Harder to mock the USSR because it was so big and powerful. Can’t mock East Germany because it is not a real country, besides which there were lots of German Americans. Czechoslovakia is just plain hard to say. Poland is the perfect length, only two syllables. Not many Polish Americans to offend + Poland being communist = Polish jokes.

That idea is really typified by the joke about Poland building a submarine with a screen door. It is kind of mocking their military capacity. It is like a joke to alleviate the fears of the Cold War.

Yeah, I don’t know if I’m from the wrong generation or the wrong area. I’ve only ever heard two and both were pretty country specific. And I heard them only once.

Q: why do pigeons fly over Poland upside down?
A: Because the country isn’t worth a sh-t!

I don’t even remember the gist of the submarine one.

“If you continue to call Mexicans generally “placid,” you’re not talking about the reality of the mass of Mexicans that I encounter here and far from LA as well.”

Every now and then, Aaron B gets it right. His characterization of Mexicans is spot on. Perhaps the confirmation bias, and not LA’s sun, is getting to you.

I think it’s a matter of selection bias. The majority of bourgeois White American contact with Mexicans is through the quiet working help, which leads to an exaggerated sense of Mexican inoffensiveness and placid natures. In effect the peasant with sombrero in hand; the banditos have stolen our grain; signor wont you help us archetype come to life which cultivates a terminal case of nobless oblige among certain people. The arrest statistics in California speak for themselves. Mexicans are more violent and prone to criminality than even prole whites. They may not be a threat to you because of geographic, social, and biological distance, but your working class co-ethnics dont enjoy the same advantages you do.

More vitally, a real British nationalism would (as Enoch Powell did) recognise the importance of the most immediate and damaging, and generally unrecognised (precisely because it is so all-pervasive), foreign influence – US political and economic power and American cultural pollution.

I agree entirely. The depressing thing is that these “British” “Nationalists” are all in favour of wallowing in American cultural filth.

And of course most “nationalist” politicians are quite happy to kowtow to the corrosive doctrines of political correctness on every issue other than their own personal hobgoblin.

A nationalism that embraces feminism and LGBT madness deserves to die.

At this point in time I think Britain might be better off under sharia law. Given a choice between Islamification and feminism/homo worship I’ll choose Islamification.

Those are funny. I can see why they were popular.

I just remembered another one.

Did you hear about the Polish couple who read that 1 out of 5 children born in the world today is Chinese?

They stopped at four children.

The Stuarts were a rather pointless and incompetent dynasty anyway

It was all downhill from the time of Henry Tudor’s usurpation. The Tudors really were catastrophically awful.

We need to find a viable Plantaganet pretender.

The Tudors really were catastrophically awful.

No they weren’t.

The Franco option certainly looks more and more tempting as the alternative becomes ever clearer. Sadly at the same time it becomes ever less plausible…..

And Spain today is as cucked as the rest of Europe. Franco gave it his best shot but the forces of darkness won in the end.

Definitely not plausible. In modern Britain the army is going to be on the side of multiculturalism and open borders and trannies and homo marriage.

They were just awful. Suffice to see a portrait of ‘Gloriana’.

?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Nicholas_Hilliard_%28called%29_-_Portrait_of_Queen_Elizabeth_I_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg/1024px-Nicholas_Hilliard_%28called%29_-_Portrait_of_Queen_Elizabeth_I_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

the Plantagenets were the last legitimate dynasty.

They wasted a huge amount of English money and lives in French wars, most of which were pointless. The early ones had very little interest in England at all.

I don’t think though the rise of Islamist movements can merely be explained by sinister Western machinations and conspiracies.

Cold War started it and Israel continued it. W/o Cold War and w/o Israel we would even not noticed that they were there. You would be no more preoccupied with them than you are with Indonesians and Malaysians. To destabilize countries and start internal ethnic and sectarian strife is easy. When they start killing each other you can blame it on them, their morality and their religion and their low IQ but then you forget about the true evil that began all that.

It is beyond discussion: no sane person should accept Muslim immigration to Europe. If Islamophobia is what it takes I am willing to accept it as a necessary evil, however I am afraid that Islamophobes and people like you will end up first going to get involved in some operations benefiting Israel rather than taking care of the problem of immigration to Europe. Islamophobia is blinding us so people do not see what is really happening.

Good summary, my thoughts exactly. It’s worth pointing out that when Shi’ite sects go off the reservation so to speak, they’re usually of an introverted and mystical persuasion. Let’s see if our resident token friendly Muslim replies.

Very good comment on analogies between Protestants and Sunnis. The chaos and multitude of Protestant sects can’t be explained just by spontaneity alone just like various Islamist groups must be looked through the prism of funding sources and who befits from their operation.

You made many good points I agree with. Sorry that I misrepresented you by associating with Islamophobes. I actually did not believe it when I wrote it. I was just to careless and sloppy.

Cheers, I appreciate the clarification. There is in general plenty that we agree on.

I agree on Iran and Shiites and their positive role in the ME but it would change if they started funding mosques in Europe and promote Islam in Europe as Sunni SA does

Indeed, but is there any reason to suppose they will ever do that? And if they ever do, then our approach to them might have to change, but it is not that day.

which benefits the “non-jihadists” characters like Talha who nevertheless rejoice Islamization of Europe. He is not our friend. Just like Jews were not our friends when at minimum they rejoiced every setback of Catholic Church in Europe.

Well Talha is a reasonable and intelligent advocate for his position, and seems like a decent chap. I don’t think I’d have any problem calling him a friend if I met him offline. A big part of the intractability of mass immigration once it is in place is precisely that so many members of the immigrant populations are in themselves as individuals perfectly decent, and resisting the policy puts us in the position of seeming to hate the individuals in question. It’s inherently corrupting, much as policies like promoting divorce or normalising homosexual behaviour are inherently corrupting – once these people are around and in the open, one has to be rude to them to try to return society to sense, which makes it hard. One response is to consistently personalise it and refuse to have anything to do with the individuals representing the bad policy – immigrants, divorcees, homosexuals, whatever. Another is to try to remain on decent terms with them (if they are in turn decently behaved) but resolutely refuse to let that change your stance on the wider policy issue even if you have to “offend” them occasionally. Both are difficult for most people.

The real guilty scum are the traitors in our own communities using their media and political and other positions of power to impose continuing mass immigration.

I said that Iran was delegitimized in the eyes of the West by the Islamic Revolution and American embassy occupation so sanctions could be imposed, so we had no guilt by driving Iran to war with Iraq, so Iran became weaker and in the place that Israel really wanted it to be. It was not a dismissive comment in any way.

Fair enough and clearly it is true that the revolution gave the US a reason and a pretext to try to isolate Iran and to wage economic warfare against it. But the same would have been true if the communists involved in the Iranian revolution had won out and suppressed the islamists. And the issues driving the revolution in Iran were far bigger imo than any Israeli/jewish interference.

Whether Muslim Brotherhood could play a positive role as, say Shiites in Lebanon, I do not know. They allowed themselves to be used by CIA for no good. Then more recently Israel seemed positive about them and Morsi, so I do not think they are who they claim they are. They have been compromised.

The ME is a snakepit of rivalries and enmities and alliances of convenience, and the MB were active in that environment. They were inevitably opposed to the remnants of the mostly discredited secular socialist/nationalist Baathist governments, and they weren’t fussy about how they fought the and who they allied with to do so. Israel and the CIA certainly took advantage of them when it suited them to do so.

We will never know where the MB would have taken Egypt if they had been left in office. For sure they would have been fully on board with the Israeli/Gulf sunni/US regime change project in Syria and in de facto alliance with the jihadists, and that would have been a problem.

But if Israel really, as you suggested, wanted the MB in power in Egypt then the US would have prevented their overthrow rather than winking at it. The US regime rarely if ever acts against Israel’s wishes on anything of substance. Personally, I don’t think the Egyptian secular government was at all a concern for Israel.

However I will defend my position that all problems were of our own creation though without our permission, because nobody asked us what Israel and the US were planning to do. Without CIA, MI5 and Mossad activities and influence in the ME we would be in much better shape. We would be as much concerned about what is going on in the ME as we are now concerned about Indonesia or Malaysia.

The only disagreement I would have with any of this is your use of the word “all”.

I believe we should let them be and help them in constructive ways and yes I favor some degree of secularization like it was in Libya, Iraq and Syria with universities, medical care, welfare and industrialization or even Afghanistan at some brief period were some women were wearing minis. Some degree of secularization is necessary to build modern society that will be self-suffient and offer opportunities for its people but the decisions should be left up to them.

Here we disagree, because of my own bias as a social conservative and in favour of religion. I don’t think secularisation is necessary or constructive, and I think small amounts of it as you suggest are just destabilising, creating demand for further secularisation and weakening the resistance to those demands. Again, the exemplar is Iran, which is not at all secularised, but still functions fine, all things considered, in extremely difficult circumstances. Many of the things you mention represent modernisation rather than secularisation – Iran has universities, medical care, welfare and a degree of industrialisation (allowing for the effects of sanctions and the “resource curse”) as well.

But we are unlikely to agree here because our differences are rather fundamental.

The reason I object to Islamophobia strongly is because it is also a creation and possible a part of a plan to get us involved in another Zionist war or enterprise. Before our Islamophobia gets us to repatriate one Muslim from Europe it is more likely it will help Israel to send 10 new ones to Europe because we as Islamophobes will be condoning whatever Isarel does there. Besides Islamophobes irritate me because they are like unaware children without historical memory and context. My initial comment was about the lost memory, I think.

Here I think you need to be very careful because using a term such as “islamophobia” is like using the similar terms “racism” and “anti-Semitism”. These are inherently dishonest smear terms that mostly serve to obfuscate and deceive. They can be used, imo, but only with great care and in limited circumstances, such as when I used the terms “racist” and “anti-Semite” above as pure short-hands, having to dress my usage around with caveats and explanations to avoid the connotations and misunderstandings inherent to the terms.

For sure there is a thread in hostility to islam and muslims which is used to (and intended to) promote Israeli/jewish interests – see my first comments to this thread about nationalism in Britain. But hostility towards the introduction of islam to formerly Christian societies in Europe and the US is much broader than just that aspect. The trick is not to tar all those opposed to the expansion of islam with the same brush, while still being alert to the dangers.

I can’t prove what I believe and you can’t disprove it either.

Indeed, but bear in mind that I don’t say that what you believe “could never” or “must never” be true (as many – perhaps most, amongst the established US sphere elites, for sure – would assert, whilst denouncing you for thought- and speech-crime). I simply disagree with it at the moment.

I am trying to formulate a very rational and reasonable hypotheses that are not driven by a priori assumption of existence of “overwhelmingly […] jewish conspiracy.” However, if some events unfold I always look at them ask a question every Jew asks: “Is it good for us or not”or rather “Has Israel anything to do with it.” I think is is prudent to do so.

Well it’s rational for jews to view every event and issue through that prism, because they are jews. I’m not sure it’s necessarily so for others, is it? Shouldn’t you be assessing the relevance of every event and issue for your own nation?

The “failure of secular socialism and nationalism” in the ME would not be of this magnitude if it was not for actions of the US and Israel.

For sure, but the failure of the European solutions of secular socialism and nationalism in the muslim world was wider than just the ME, and of course among the goals at which those philosophies failed were precisely the defeat of the disastrous power the US and (in the ME) Israel wielded over muslim nations. So in a sense that is inevitable.

And that great societal, political and philosophical failure in the mid-late C20th is where I see the real roots of the late C20th muslim resurgence, not the manipulation for strategic purposes by Israel or even by the US. The latter contributed, for sure, and had great influence on how it turned out in particular cases, but was not imo the driving force.

So this argument is actually a counter argument to your thesis that I overdo with the ‘conspiracy stuff.’

Well please do bear in mind that I don’t choose to raise this as an issue with you ordinarily. It’s a view you have with which I agree in part but not entirely, is all, but not an important one usually. I raise it only in direct response to what I saw as an attack consequent in part upon it.

In the 1980s when Hezbollah was pioneering the use of suicide bombing by Muslims and Iran was drunk on its Islamic Revolution, your notion of Shia holding to natural order and legitimacy would have been a little hard to swallow. You are over-egging the differences in doctrine making Sunni Muslims more rabid, the cause of that is Saudi and Gulf oil wealth spreading out the crazy version of Islam they follow. Go back to the 1950s-70s and the hijab etc. would have barely been seen in most Muslim countries.

All the way down to the last of the 3rd paragraph before “blame America first.”

Gosh, suggesting that the world’s dominant power, and indeed the “world’s only superpower” for some considerable time, actually has some responsibility for events and issues around the world! Whatever next, eh?

That’s true, but I still think it’s very difficult to consciously adopt a belief because you know it to be useful…it feels intellectually dishonest to me.

If an individual believes religion to be invaluable to his group, he could very easily obtain spiritual satisfaction knowing that he had placed the interests of the group above his own individual preference.

With regard to racism, nowhere have I counseled putting our heads in the sand. Again, be brutally honest. But be moral – honestly point out black dysfunction, but emphasize the role of values in changing the situation. I’m fact, this is more honest. And avoid sneering contempt of the Sailor kind.

But again, this requires a abandoning materialism.

I am afraid this is all I can give you. I am sorry if you find them childish platitudes. You are an old man – perhaps you cannot make the leap.

You squirt these platitudes around like squid ink to obscure your lack of any constructive response to specific points made. And it’s particularly irritating when you pontificate about “materialism” to people who (certainly in my own case) went through that phase of simplistic generalism decades ago and grew out of it shortly afterwards.

It’s a bit like trying to have a conversation about the world with a group of people, while in the corner there’s a middle-aged hippy smoking a fat spliff and contributing nothing of substance but just butting in to criticise people who say something politically incorrect: “Hey, man, chill a bit! Don’t be mean, now. That’s waycist! Not cool. What you need is love, man.”

As for Sailer (and he’s not the first writer who expresses politically incorrect facts about race that I’ve noticed you attacking), the whole point about (that aspect of) what Sailer does is precisely that he says things that upset blacks and those who apologise for them, and what is vital about him saying it is precisely that these harsh truths and opinions are excluded from mainstream discourse, leaving society seriously unbalanced, with clear and dire policy consequences. Far from doing so with “sneering disrespect”, in actual fact Sailer is pretty controlled and respectable in his discourse. For a balanced society we’d have him opining in the upmarket newspapers and journals to balance out the race deniers and lefty globalist fantasists, and more robust shit-slingers of the kind you falsely portray him as in the downmarket press to balance out the cruder identity lobbyists, and the antifa and pc morons.

But hey, man, I get that if we could all just be a bit more respectful to each other that problem would be solved. Yeah, right.

Almost like letting foreigners rule your country is a bad thing because they might have divergent interests

there are logically three broad possibilities: one is wrong and the opiner is correct, one is correct and the opiner is mistaken, or one is correct and the opiner is lying.

They could both be correct. They could both be incorrect. They could both be lying. The matter at hand does not conform to a correct/incorrect analysis.

Almost like letting foreigners rule your country is a bad thing because they might have divergent interests

Ah, so I see you’ve come around on the case of Ireland…

actually has some responsibility for events and issues around the world!

One issue that seems to give you a particularly bad case of heartburn (rightly so imo) is governmental prosecutions of “hate speech” in your country.

Is your government following the lead of the U.S. on this very important issue?

You don’t see “substance” in my proposal because you are, in effect, a materialist and rationalist. How can so nebulous a thing as “values” actually help blacks be less dysfunctional? There’s no substance in that! There’s nothing physical there!

Well, I am proposing that blacks can be less dysfunctional if they are taught good values, and socially pressured to conform to them. That merely condemning them will make them rebellious – but that condemning them without contempt, and helping them improve, wont.

To me these “moral factors” are more realistic and “substantive” than anything else – but to a rationalist materialist – yes, you – who has zero appreciation for “moral factors” they cannot appear anything other than pointless.

And that you fail to note Sailers’s tone of contempt merely reinforces that you are blind to moral factors.

Too bad that you don’t like my generalization that you are a materialist – that is what you are. Like a typical analytical modern, such generalizations are “platitudes” – we must produce a thousand caveats and analyze it logically from a thousand directions! – but simple truths are simple truths.

To the overrational modern, all simple truths are platitudes, which is why they are so smart yet so stupid. Everything they say is banal and hemmed in by caveats.

So to repeat – I think moral and spiritual factors are primary forces in the world. You think physical factors are – that’s why you think my proposals which center on moral and spiritual factors lack “substance” , and my observation of simple spiritual truths like you are a materialist seem like “platitudes” to you, because they don’t sufficiently take into account the million caveats that the modern analytical mind can find, but offer simple truths that see the forest and don’t get lost in the trees.

You write lengthy well-reasoned posts that get lots of physical details right but miss the moral and spiritual dimension as well as the overall larger picture – you lose yourself in a mass of trivial details, focus on proximate causes, and have no capacity to see ultimate causes, like most commenters here. Utu sees ultimate causes better than you – but he isn’t a materialist.

But you represent the older way of thinking which naively believes we can “reason” our way out of this if we just think hard enough – that’s why you write such long posts without a single larger inspiring truth that gets the larger picture right, but offer a well-reasoned mass of trivial details that lead only to despair.

It is your mindset – the modern mindset – that the next generation must leave behind. The next generation must thrill to what you call “platitudes” –
simple spiritual truths that get the larger picture right – and they must find a feast just where you find no “substance” – in spiritual and moral factors.

The cold, deathly chill of your “reason” is what we must overcome. But you cannot take the leap. That much is clear.

We must wait patiently for new men.

You don’t see “substance” in my proposal because you are, in effect, a materialist and rationalist. How can so nebulous a thing as “values” actually help blacks be less dysfunctional? There’s no substance in that! There’s nothing physical there!

This is simply incorrect, and you should know it is incorrect because just the other day I pointed out that blacks (the context was US blacks in particular) would benefit from a return to coercive old-school Christianity for precisely this reason, and you agreed with my point.

But don’t let being wrong interfere with your diagnosis.

Then why exactly do you persistently claim there is no “substance” in my proposal that we deal with black dysfunction by a return to good values?

You are having rationalist “hiccups” .

And I must add that Steve Sailer is just about the most morally degrading reading about blacks you can have today

Sailer says – look at those stupid blacks, how inferior to us whites! ha ha ha (while begging Jews to throw him scraps, and sucking up to them). It’s not just morally degrading -it’s humiliating to white people on both ends.

Not – the msm lies. Black dysfunction is real and serious. Let us be honest about this and help them return to good values – which, for that matter, our own people also need.

But Steve is a rational materialist, and so prey to every petty impulse. And you think Steve does good work because you share his mentality, Randal.

I favor honesty with morality.

The real solution to black dysfunction is slavery.

Even less realistic of course.

You’re right, pre-modern people like St. Aquinas had no interest in logic or reason!

Didn’t he chuck it all after writing the Summa saying he had a mystical experience and all his writings were as nothing compared to it, and ceased writing from then on 🙂 Funny how the Holy Spirit guided you to choose just that example lol.

An excess of logic was always the weakness at the heart of western culture – but today it has grown to monstrous proportions, strangling everything.

I do not have much evidence for external interference of secret services to overthrow Shah in 1979 and destabilize Iran. This is my hypothesis that I would have never formed in 1980 but in 2000’s after seeing what has been happening in the ME the hypothesis on just the qui bono criterion makes a very good sense.

It is banal to state that not everything can be predicted. This does not stop various actors from plotting and making designs for the future. This banality can’t be your serious objection, right? The existence and strength of Hezbollah certainly is related to Iran going through 1979 revolution. But what if it did not? What if Iran continued rapid industrial growth and modernization and being excellent and indispensable American ally in Cold War who is armed by America and France and developing nuclear industry with the help of France and all the time being a Muslim nation (not government) that is rather hostile to Israel and potentially can go through some Islamic revolution and retain all this industrial potential? Why to stop this possibility and not nip it in the bud? And that what happened and Iran was set back few decades of development because it was cut off from the West.

The biggest problem for Israel was that Iran was an ally of the US thus it was untouchable. After the Islamic Revolution you could sanction it, spit at it and kick it all what you wanted. It became a pariah nation. This is the qui bono. And that Hezbollah showed up down the road is another and rather minor problem. In the meantime huge Muslim nation with great potential was taken out of business for 39 years already.

You are too young to know of great publicity Iran had in 1970s in the Western media with special issues in Newsweek devoted to economic miracle of Iran and bringing modernity to the ME. They were our sons of bitches and we could juxtapose Iran next to Soviet sons of bitches who also were developing at rapid pace like Libya and Iraq but Iran was doing it better, was stronger and had our values. Everybody was rooting for Iran to succeed. The only country in our camp that was concerned with all this was Israel.

That is regarding rather inconsequential issues like being able to have the bodies of the deceased released for burials by coroners’ within 24 hours, dietary issues, the right to wear religious garb and setting up faith schools. Not for some imaginary project where Jews and Muslims team up to destroy Christendom.

Bernie Sanders got a lot of Muslim support. A Jewish acquaintance of mine said that it made him very proud. They usually support the same political parties.

Both groups are, by and large, open border advocates to the West, together the most important part of a larger coalition. Jews are the major political movers on this front – it is impossible not to notice, when you have a guy like Shatter in Ireland opening up the border. Jews lived with Christians, so Christians are their great other, not Muslims, who very few ever lived with – since they weren’t very prosperous under them, and did not multiply like they did among Europeans.

It is basically like the tales of the Islamic conquest of Spain being repeated – Jews are opening the city gates (this is what Muslims said that they did). In the end, they decided that they didn’t like Muslims, after all, and fled to the Christian parts of Spain. But the same sort of conspiracy happened in other parts of Europe. It’s like Tip O’Neill said, “All politics is local.”

Jews lived with Christians, so Christians are their great other,

I suspect it’s also a theological issue in part, Jewish and Muslim conceptions of God are much closer to each other than to the Christian trinity after all. Religious praxis also has striking similarities (religious law, circumcision, ritualised slaughter of animals etc.).

I’m thinking mainly of the atheistic or agnostic Jews, but I can see how you may be right on even some of the modern incidentals.

It really is quite strange how much the dietary prohibitions have taken force in our society. We are basically paying a small kosher tax on many food products. Meanwhile, pork products have been removed from many school lunches in service to special interest groups.

I’ve known a few Jews (reformed or not believing) who were perfectly willing to eat ham, which makes it all the stranger, and possibly only comprehensible in the context of so many Muslims entering Europe, creating ripple effects in other parts of the West.

like the tales of the Islamic conquest of Spain being repeated – Jews are opening the city gates

To be fair, they had rather good reason for doing this:

A series of anti-Jewish laws in the late seventh century, for example, forbade circumcision under penalty of castration (for circumcisee and circumciser alike).** In 694 a law was approved under which all Spanish Jews were to be reduced to slaves and distributed among the rich and pious, with Jewish children up to the age of seven separated from their parents so they would receive a proper Christian education.

** For a woman circumciser, the penalty was loss of her nose.

From your lips to G-d’s Ears.

You can reform other peoples, but it’s harder.

The British managed to put a stop to a number of retrograde practices in India for instance, and those practices have not returned. Pre-British India literally had religious murder cults whom believed kidnapping and murdering strangers was holy, and a lot of other totally wacko things.

The British also left India their magnificent law, which carries on in India to this day (though there are issues with bribery and inadequate resources devoted to courts).

Likewise the Caribbean has the best behaved blacks in the entire world, bar Haiti. Barbados is as prosperous as Eastern Europe, though naturally crime is much higher. Bahamians lived under slavery for two centuries and white supremacy for more than three. It left an impact.

American blacks even lived in monogamous nuclear families when white supremacy ruled.

The issue with reforming other peoples isn’t that it can’t be done, it’s that it’s cucking. Imagine instead of the Caribbean was the tropical aryan surf paradise promoted by Bronze Age Pervert, the world’s most visionary alt-right leader. We can make that dream happen.

I agree with Randal, this is bullshit. Japs’ birthrate has crashed, yet Japan is still Japanese. They can repopulate at their leisure.

One thing that I find missing from these (genuinely in-the-ballpark-correct) analyses is the iron law of minority status: as groups become minorities, their behavior changes dramatically. They start building walls around themselves. They start thinking of themselves as a people. They start monitoring how they’re treated by other groups, and reciprocating. Fighting for their share of the pie. Become endogamous. It’s a pretty big silver lining.

I suspect it’s how every particularist (I’m looking at you, Jews) group was born.

I think there is some subset of Whites (5%, 10%*) that is inherently ethnonationalist. Despite having the entire shoe stacked against us, White ethnonationalism is a growth industry. This will only accelerate as Whites slide into minority status.

*Whatever the share, they will take a much larger group of squishier Whites with them; their DNA-ethnonationalism will spawn cultural ethnonationalism that will recruit other Whites, who otherwise would not be ethnonationalist, to the tribe.

What I’m saying is that I think there’s a hard floor on how far White populations will dwindle.

It still says a Hell of a lot about Muslims and their religiosity. Americans could be dominated by a Great Satan, and they wouldn’t go all fundie Baptist. Hell, just how pissed off Muslims get over having another Muslim country invaded is striking. The equivalent would be something like Americans throwing a fundie Baptist revolution to overthrow a secular gov’t that toed the line of a secular superpower that invaded fundie Baptist Canada.

Anyways, the point being – Americans are very lucky compared to Europeans with respect to their immigration situation.

Not from an ethnonationalist POV. From our POV, the more obnoxious the invaders, the better. Diseases that don’t set off an immune response are far deadlier.

A close friend from eastern Europe, who votes for an anti-migrant party and hates Merkel (thus, he is no kind of liberal or self-hating European), lives down in Texas. He likes Mexicans.

I don’t like or dislike Mexicans. Sorta like how I don’t like or dislike Tigers, but don’t want them anywhere near my yard, either.

Bernie Sanders was pretty explicitly anti-Open Borders, saying unlimited immigration only benefited the likes of the Koch brothers. Muslims were attracted to Bernie Sanders (and to Jeremy Corbyn in the UK) because a social democracy is in line with their view of a morally just society where care of the poor, sick and unfortunate is of more importance than in Reagano-Thatcherism.

Per wiki, most of the Jews expelled from Spain went to Muslims territories in North Africa and the Ottoman empire where the ruling sultan gave them a warm welcome with one of them becoming finance minister.

Both groups are, by and large, open border advocates to the West, together the most important part of a larger coalition. Jews are the major political movers on this front – it is impossible not to notice, when you have a guy like Shatter in Ireland opening up the border. Jews lived with Christians, so Christians are their great other, not Muslims, who very few ever lived with – since they weren’t very prosperous under them, and did not multiply like they did among Europeans.

About half the Jews lived under Muslim rule. They are called the ‘Mizrahi Jews’. And they generally hate Muslims and Arabs.

Another part of the population (the secular European origin Jews) are liberal and to a kind of suicidal level, believing in liberalism, ‘co-existence’ and democracy.

Although the post-Soviet fraction of ones, are much more on the secular right-wing spectrum.

That’s not real Israeli media headlines. But English headlines, i.e. media for the American Jewish customers.

It’s like reporting from ‘Al Jazeera English’, or ‘Russia Today’, and expecting it to reflect what the native audience is reading.

It’s also a matter of numbers. Our demographics are much worse than Europe’s. Hence Euros on Frog Twitter making fun of us with their Le 56% memes.

And if we fail there’s nothing to stop mohammedan and african immigration from taking off either, especially with lunatics in the the Cathedral outright calling for the abolition of ICE and sacralizing illegal aliens to the point of awarding them feudal privileges.

A lot of our “luck” is also down to the harsh criminal justice system in America, which The Enemy wishes to dismantle because they worship criminals.

We have some Somalis, and while bad they act out less than Somalis in Sweden. Why? Stuff like kidnapping and gang-raping a woman will get you a fifty year prison sentence in America. In some states capital punishment is a possibility.

Street assault like is common in Europe is highly unusual here. Why? Because we have the right to pack serious firepower and kill people who assault us. And attacking someone on the street unprovoked is aggravated felony assault and battery. Ten year prison sentence.

Notice how actually mohammedan countries don’t have problems with mass rape and assault and such, except for one where state power has collapsed. I don’t know what the penalty for rape is in Saudi Arabia, but I suspect it’s beheading by sword.

The Enemy is now ranting and raving about “The Carceral State” and “Mass Incarceration Theory”. Philly elected a prosecutor whose stated goal is to convict all criminals with the minimum permissible legal sentence. They want to repeat what they did in the 60s, which allowed blacks to destroy city after city across the country.

This, incidentally, is why I always say the real enemy is liberals. Not mohammedans, blacks, etc. who are just disorderly jerks. Liberals on the other hand are extremely formidable, and they fervently desire to destroy the entire world. The most evil people in the entire history of humanity.

What I find so puzzling about Japan is the issue of formalism.

To give one ex: elderly Japanese seem really bothered that the declaration of war did not arrive in Washington a minute before the attack on Pearl Harbor, but actually after the attack commenced. The idea of a surprise attack does not bother them, in the least.

Similarly, and more to the issue: Japan takes in like 30 “refugees” every year. In a recent case, two of these (and Muslims) raped a Japanese woman. But they still take in more every year. The number is very low – not an existential danger – but why bother at all? Esp. in view of how troublesome the few they take in are.

At one point, I tried to think of some strategic answer: maybe, they are gathering data, of criminality and school and economic performance, over a long span of time. Creating a loaded gun of rhetoric ready to shoot into the face of any movement to open the borders. But I believe that is just over-thinking it. It probably is just formalism – incomprehensible formalism.

Wow, thanks! That is quite interesting.

Jews were indigenous or rather pre-established in many MENA countries before the Islamic Conquest, but their presence there today is very low and diminishing. Perhaps, the difference is Europe is a more fertile land, but perhaps it is not that but something else. Clearly Muslim populations have grown fantastically in recent years, but seemingly not the Jews who were semi-indigenous to those lands.

The Mizrahi Jews (which is 60% of Jews in Israel) lived as dhimmis in the Middle East for centuries. A lot of hate Islam and Muslims – even the ones who identify with Arab language.

The problem for Israel is that a secular elite, which has over-representation of European origin Jews, are often suicidally liberal (not ‘neoliberal’, but ‘hippy liberal’), and the demographic is overrepresented, totally controls the Supreme Court of Israel and the media apparatus (which has endless reports on the news to feel sorry for the African immigrants and Arabs).

The usual complaint in Israel is ‘Ashkenazi’ people (Jews from European countries) have a very naive and hippy view to the Middle East. Which is true – many are tremendous liberals and leftists.

–

The kind of small elite that believe that sending kids of these kind of ‘peace camps’ (they have dozens of these) are going to solve the conflict.

It’s actually a nice idea, but you are a complete hippy if you believe this is how wars are solved. Or that the Arabs will welcome you because you said some nice words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czfaLrToOgY

• Here by contrast is less pleasant attitude of working class Mizrahi hooligans (whose family had lived in the Middle East under Islamic rule), when a football team (which has many Christians), brings on board two Muslim players from Chechnya.

They don’t care about players of other nationalities (negro players, european players, etc) – but when Muslims were brought into the team they went crazy and racist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itz24M70KTM

The idea of a surprise attack does not bother them, in the least.

tbf to them I think this might be the influence of their obsessive study of British naval strategy

Interesting analysis. Wasn’t Port Arthur also a surprise attack? I’m pretty ignorant about British naval history.

I’ve been watching Japanese TV on Netflix – I have yet to find a show that does not have a deeply moral message

I can’t speak to that observation personally, but I’ve wondered how different Hollywood would have been, if history had unfolded differently. What would it (and we) be like if the moral censorship had survived intact. What if it had been founded by East Asians? Or never been established on the West Coast? Or as a dominant, single location in the West? Lots of interesting possibilities…

It seems quite odd to think of it, but I’ve seen how different Hispanic TV can be. Sometimes it seems quite terrible, but other times it seems clearly better. I think of the commercials esp: one shows a boy dreaming of a future where he is a firefighter and rescues a pretty lady. On the whole, they are much more masculine (sort of like with a paterfamilias), more willing to show a cross or faith. Our commercials, by contrast, are incredible pozzed. It seems like the majority are about miscegenation or feminism.

No Japanese culture? Ah, well, we almost had you….

You have a grand vision – a cause worth fighting and dying for. I think you’ve found just the thing to inspire today’s apathetic masses.

Japan in some ways ways has the modern disease, but I think it will find a way out before us – the interest in Taoism is a good example of slowly turning away from the West. I hear Japan is slowly losing interest in the West – a heartening sign – and things like golf which used to be popular aren’t anymore.

https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2018/05/05/making-japan-great-again/

If Bloody Spandrell is to be believed the Japanese right is winning the culture war.

They had better hurry as creeping immigration has gotten a lot worse this century, though fortunately domestic political pressure has prevented going full retard on this as South Korea has.

I’ve also heard that Japan has no laws requiring mandatory child support payments, in which case perhaps the aryan surfer bodybuilders of the #BleachRight should conquer Japan with our sperm.

Then we can use advanced Japanese technology and manufacturing to claim our Zion–the Caribbean.

Oddly, I was actually thinking of something like this the other day: Silicon Valley seems seriously pozzed. What if a guy like Ross Perot – a Texan who made a massive tech fortune headed Google? Would it still be pozzed?

I am probably guilty of thinking of too many counterfactuals. Of course, Shockley who may be said to be the founding father of the valley was seriously based.

The thin ones with short hair will have recently left prison. EDL is popular in gaol.

I just thought the idea of Howard Hughes controlling the movie business instead of the Jews is funny. I don’t disagree with you.

Steve Sailer actually pointed out the problem of red state zillionaires squandering money on college football years ago.

Thorfinnsson,

I’m not sure but it’s more than likely that I picked up the idea from Steve about “red state zillionaires squandering money on college football.”

But it’s a real shame that some of these zillionaires don’t raid their petty cash boxes to support some of our impoverished worthies. For starters as deserving candidates I begin with vdare, Chronicles, the Fleming Foundation, etc.

George Soros is the personification of evil but give the devil his due: he walks the walk!

For once I completely agree with you, Oriental literature appears to me to be almost entitling a series of proscriptive platitudes.

LOL on California. “And nothing of value was lost.”

Stop this sanctimonious attitude.

Most Muslims support ‘leftists’, because it is in their individual and group interest, either implicitly or explicitly, to support them, not because they altruistically care so much for a ‘morally just society where care of the poor, sick and unfortunate’ is considered important.

In a way Jews asking ‘is it good for the Jews?’ is a lot more honest than this Muslim attitude where doing ‘the right thing’ just so happens to always further Muslim communitarian interests at the expense of other groups.

It is this kind of attitude that furthers people’s belief that Muslims are dishonest.

What this really means is that the Shia are in effect legitimists and beholden to natural order and hierarchy. The Supreme Ayatollah is the law of the land in Iran and you cannot exceed him theologically, and he more critically serves as a firebreak to radicalism because trying to out holy him gets you beheaded. It is also the reason why King, Church, and Pope were so necessary for the proper functioning of Europe until that devil Luther came along.

How do you explain Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity then, the latter being much more chill historically even though it’s less hierarchical?
It’s the Catholics who had inquisitions and crusades against other Christians, and if you read what the Spanish Catholics did to the Incas and the Mayas, they were pretty much exactly like ISIS.

We are cynics and nihilist

You are not. Cynics do not hate and cynics can control themselves better than you. You are like the Japanese of you mind: “with childlike attachment” to beliefs from the past that deep down you are embarrassed by but you can’t help yourself.

Anyway it is interesting to read your childlike projections on other cultures because there is some childlike truth in them. Japanese and Chinese are very different but both interesting to me. Each different way. Can be admired for some things and can be loathed for others . It depends on time of the day, weather and mood.

Houellebecq is the French_reader.

https://twitter.com/nmgrm/status/997544688088334336

Don’t play stupid semantic games. You understand full well I am using cynicism in the normal usage of the word rather than some Greek abstract.

The “innocent” nature of the Japanese isn’t a projection but rather a long held historic observation that is no longer popular because liberalism eschews essentialism. That and over the past century Western society has itself become so infantilized that most Westerners no longer understand when Childishness should end.

My impressions of Japanese culture also comes from reading their literature and poetry, having spent time in their country. TV is minor – I just think most modern Americans can easily connect through TV, which to my surprise I found not as degraded as American TV, even sometimes shockingly pure and innocent.

Ritual is very important btw, we need to re-introduce it in the West. It goes straight to the non-rational part of the brain – habitual bowing, habitual courtesy, affects your attitude to the world in subliminal ways. The bow in particular expresses a reverence we can no longer feel in the West. The loss of ritual in the West is not minor.

Look, I realize as a Chinese you have a rivalry with Japan – I understand that. Daniel Chieh seems more broadminded on this issue, but it can’t be expected of everyone. The Japanese in the early 20th century – when they were aping westerners – are far from my ideal. I also love traditional Chinese culture, and think we can learn much from it as well. Although I think modern China has experienced substantial cultural degradation, and is in danger of becoming just another and worse America, I think there is still a kernel of health in China and there is cause for hope.

I don’t think you’re completely cynical and nihilistic, as then you’d be apathetic and blase like modern Europeans, and not incredibly enthusiastic and motivated as you are now – I think there is much cynicism and nihilism, and that the furious quest for wealth and dominance is the afterglow of a religious sensibility which may fade to the apathetic level of Europeans after the initial burst of activity, but you may also recover health. We shall see.

“I think it’s a matter of selection bias. The majority of bourgeois White American contact with Mexicans is through the quiet working help, which leads to an exaggerated sense of Mexican inoffensiveness and placid natures.”

There is no exaggeration here. Consider El Paso, Texas which sits opposite the Rio Grande river from Ciudad Juarez, an extremely violent city in Mexico. The vast majority of citizens from El Paso are of Mexican origin. A large population of El Paso’s Hispanic population are immigrants. El Paso is one of the safest cities in the United States with a homicide rate of 2.4 per 100,000 residents.

“The arrest statistics in California speak for themselves. Mexicans are more violent and prone to criminality than even prole whites.”

Depends upon if it is first, second, and third generation. And then there is this little nugget.

http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/aug/03/antonio-villaraigosa/mostly-true-undocumented-immigrants-less-likely-co/

“They may not be a threat to you because of geographic, social, and biological distance.

No, generally speaking Mexicans fit the description given by Aaron B.

No, the Spanish Inquisition and the methods employed, along with European treatment of natives from the New World, is not “enlightenment fiction” or “Protestant slander”.

Broke: Booohooo the Spanish inquisition was a Catholic massacre of innocent victims, particularly Jews and Muslims, and showed how bloodthirsty European Christians via their superstitious, ignorant and backwards behavior.

Woke: The Spanish inquisition was a necessary political cleansing of crypto Jewish influence at the Royal Court, the Church, and elsewhere in Spanish society that was designed to root out an actively subversive element that was attempting to to “Judaize” Spain as John Chrysostom would put it.

Regarding the Americas, the policy of the Spanish Court nor the Church was never to let the hot blooded Hidalgos run amuck in the Americas. It was simply the tyranny of distance that made enforcing civilized behavior difficult. There are numerous instances of Church criticism of atrocities and even Charles V wrote explicitly condeming it but it had little effect because the kind of men that ended up going to the New World were not the kind of men that are compelled to follow the letter of the law.

I hope you don’t think I am suggesting I read Japanese literature in Japanese – I don’t know Japanese, but I do read quite a bit in translation. I love nature poetry, and I find a poet like Ryokan deeply moving. I read him with inexhaustible delight, although I suspect most westerners would indeed find him boring – but we are oversrimulated with sensationalist trash.

But maybe you only meant modern Japanese literature – in that case you may be right, the only modern Japanese I read is of course Murakami, who is very uneven but at his best fantastic. You are certainly right that all modern Western literature is trash – and I will take your word about Chinese.

I am glad you see the power of ritual – this cannot be emphasized enough!

Yes, Japan has also contracted the modern disease – no one has been spared. But to my amazement, I found a core of glowing good health that was completely unexpected. Somehow, defying all expectations, something pure has managed to survive. But the Japanese are not a fully healthy people. And yet, with power politics behind them, they may be the first to lead the way to a post-modern recovery of health among wealthy nations.

I agree – there is much to learn from Jews, Muslims, and Hindus, although Jews are beginning their slide into decline. I stress this angle all the time. But the Japanese are fully developed and modern and leaders in advanced technology – so it is peculiarly powerful for Westerners to learn of just how archaic and non-logical and emotional the Japanese are, exploding our assumptions about modernity and the sources of resilience and strength.

The societies that are heathiest and the Chinese and Europeans too I guess would do well to emulate and learn from are actually those that I actively dislike; Jews, Mohammedans, and the more dysfunctional variety of Hindu.

What would you like Chinese to learn from them?

But the Japanese are one of the most atheistic societies on earth – so how does this fit wit your thesis?

Very pofound comment.

The rule of nature, unlike the norms of men, cares nothing about truth, status, wealth, or beauty. It cares only for survival.

I like your comments though always feared that under your eloquence and erudition one may find something weird. And it just happened. You are a kook.

Nature is incapable of caring. Even for survival. But you do. Why do you want Chinese to survive? Do they have some biological uniqueness that is worth preserving? You do not care about anything else except for biology because you are Mr. Nature, right? You do not mind them becoming Muslims or Jehovah Witnesses and changing language to Swahili as long as they survive biologically. I am trying to imagine 2 billions of Chinese looking Swahili speaking Muslims. Anyway, you may get High Five form Mother Nature.

Have you considered animal husbandry? You may have a knack for breeding dogs or race horses. Or chickens. It is easy to breed chickens by thousands. Damn, we have just missed the year of the rooster.

Regarding mecha, for all their ridiculousness, what I think people find so appealing about them is the personal element. A giant robotic-suit still has the basic outline of a man. It constantly reminds you that a man is supposed to be inside it. Generally, a single man – not a squad or group. There is still a heroic element, despite the technology. It is a kind of reminder that heroism continues and isn’t lost to the distant ages.

As far as the Japanese fertility rate goes: of course it is troubling, but it seems to me it is mostly a matter of will. A very easy matter, in fact, compared to the West. I believe there will come a day when the shrinking population becomes undeniable – that most of the Japanese public and leadership will really internalize it. If the leadership only has the discipline to maintain the borders, it is inevitable that they will rebound. One of my grandfathers was one of 16 children, all with the same parents. That sort sort of potential fertility is probably inherent to most young people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulverism

Something without this, presumably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2LIJb6O9KM

I believe Japan can teach us to reconnect to our spiritual roots – which would be a reversal of roles.

Surely you are trolling. A few hours earlier it was Islam, now it’s Japan. What do these two have in common?

Japan is even more atheistic and materialistic than Europe. Whatever little religion is left there is superficial ritualism, fakery or photo opportunity.

Perhaps it’s the fakery that attracts you? For you sure don’t seem too interested in spiritual truths. Just as you are attracted to pre-Enlightenment ignorant mystery about the world of Matter-Energy and repelled by Science and Reason.

My diagnosis of your despair: you are a coward who is afraid to face Truth.