Ramzan “White Sharia” Kadyrov on gays:
We don’t have those kinds of people here… If there are there take them to Canada… Take them far from us so we don’t have them at home… To purify our blood, if there are any here, take them.” …
We have a strong government and are a nuclear state. Even if our government was completely destroyed, our nuclear missiles would be automatically deployed. We will put the whole world on its knees and screw it from behind.
There’s a lot of problems with Chechnya and its position in Russia; problems which may well come to a head sooner or later.
That said, as my ROGPR podcast colleague pigdog remarked, it’s impossible to hate Kadyrov’s “export version.”
Yes, of course he has a cult following on /pol/.
Why are modern Eurasian Caucasians more based than modern American Caucasians?
Chechens are undomesticated whites (or something like that). With dogs and other domesticated animals (or plants), it’s often beneficial to cross them with the undomesticated strain. It should be beneficial for humans, too.
So in the next Chechen war the men should be slaughtered and the women forcibly converted and given to Swedish and German men as wives. The offspring should further be married off to Swedes and Germans. All the while both generations heavily indoctrinated in Swedish and German nationalism. They will be the bulwark against immigration and multiculturalism.
Okay, maybe it’s not totally realistic.
I’m pretty sure homosexual relations are much more common in Muslim societies with a strict separation of sexes than anywhere else. The kind of people they don’t have there is openly ‘gay’ individuals. It’s a cultural thing, and he’s right about that: if you reject the culture of the place where you happen to live, then emigrating to Canada (for example, or whatever environment suits you best) seems like the most natural remedy.
To avoid sex imbalances, the German and Swedish women who would be unable to find husbands due to the mass marriage of German and Swedish men to Chechen women, perhaps the Chechen men should also be spared, and be given Swedish and German wives. The resulting children should be married to full-blooded Germans and Swedes, just as with the other mixed children, and heavily indoctrinated in Swedish and German nationalism.
Okay, I further refined the idea. Only Swedes should be crossed, because 1) they are even more cucked than the Germans, and 2) there are very few Chechens anyway.
The Chedish nation will no longer be cucked!
He’s still a nasty Islamic thug. You may find homosexuals disgusting and regard the LGBTQ movement as deeply subversive (certainly true), but still, one shouldn’t fall into the same trap as many stupid religious conservatives with their admiration of Islam. Someone like Kadyrov will never be a reliable ally or friend.
Which is why my breeding program is the way to go. Cheden will produce the Kwisatz Haderach! I hope, at least.
I don’t think Swedes deserve another chance…Sailer had a post yesterday (“relevant question about immigration”)…look up the article he links to…they really seem to be super-cucks compared even to Germans or the English. And they don’t have any excuse for that like having lost a world war or nationalism having been discredited by a genocidal, racist dictatorship, like Germans do.
So your proposal should be limited to just German men, Swedes don’t deserve the companionship of those Caucasus beauties.
Well, this is why they need their genes to be recombined with those of the Chechens. Cheden will never be as cucked as Sweden is!
But it’s also possible to do it for both Germany and Sweden. All it depends on is birthrates among Chedes and Chermans. It could be sufficiently high, I think.
Why not learn from them?
What’s there to learn from Muslims? Unless you believe they’re right on theological matters and Mohammed really was God’s prophet, nothing imo. Their increasing power in Europe isn’t the result of any strength on their side, but of weakness, decadence and the treasonous attitudes of “elites” on our side.
None of this would even be a problem if policy was run along the lines of the sentiments of an average 1950s Westerner.
We can learn intolerance from them. This is a strength on their side, and one that makes it easier for them to exploit our weaknesses and decadence.
Yes, but as long as the state apparatus is against people like us, our ability to be intolerant and act on it is rather constrained.
But I tend to agree, the time for compromise is past.
Yes, contra fundies there have always been homosexuals (fags) in society. These days this impulse (whether it emerges from the womb environment, the post-natal environment, or genetics) has been grafted onto a potent vanguard cocktail of hedonism and sexual decadence – being ‘gay’ – that inverts the normative hetro values necessary for a stable and enduring society.
The solution is simply a public ‘don’t ask don’t tell/show’ policy. Furthermore, straight people should not be burdened paying for expensive medication because of the disgusting and dangerous practices these people engage in (don’t type in ‘standard fuck party’ to youtube).
As for Islam, while they have a certain admirable will to power, its basically just a system of Judaic morals adapted for lower IQ Semites whose competitive strategy is mainly violence. I’ll grant there are a few schools with mystical/esoteric interpretations of Islam that have their value, these are not representative of the Islamic core, and we have our own superior traditions.
The longer the multiculturalist experiment lasts, the higher the chances of bloodshed. I cannot imagine how an overwhelming black/Muslim majority will govern peacefully – they won’t like each other, there will be constant bickering among Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Afro-Caribbeans, Moroccans and Algerians, etc. Of course, legacy white elites will try to play them off against each other.
Now since the likelihood of bloodshed is very high anyway (at least in the long run), I’m not sure how strictly violence will be avoided by nationalists. It’s certainly not a stable situation either way.
It’s a dreadful prospect no matter how you look at it. I’m really irritated by supposedly educated people who fail to grasp this and continue to support the policies that have led us to this situation…how dumb do you need to be not to see that this will end badly? Has been a factor in me avoiding contact with some acquaintances of mine (or maybe they’re avoiding me as well after I let slip out some of my views). Maybe that’s a mistake and one should try to convince others. But my patience is limited, and I’m no longer inclined to the self-censorship expected in respectable society.
Hmm, in most muslim societies certainly. The thing with the Caucasus is that they’re a short marshrutka ride away from all of that,
http://englishrussia.com/2012/01/13/dagestani-guys-in-the-russian-army/8/
so I would expect the only gay guys there to be truly, actually gay.
Pretty much agree with this, though he’s pretty much a figurehead for a phenomena that would’ve happened there anyway, with or without him. Is life for openly gay guys really any better in Ingushetia or Dagestan? It’s probably just about bearable in the North-West and South Caucasus, but still pretty unpleasant.
The northeast Caucasus is, for all intents and purposes, an Arab country. The’re Shaffi-muslims as well, so FGM is likely to be more widespread than already reported in Dagestan, cue western media headlines suggesting it’s a Russian problem, with Putin personally responsible when it inevitably surfaces.
For balance between social conservatism an modernity then Poland, Hungary et al are have pretty much got it right.
Except this guy doesn’t seem very religious. It is the secular Muslims who are the big homophobes. Islamists don’t like homosexuality but don’t seem very hung up on it. I don’t know what is happening in Germany, but in the US we are starting to see Muslims become increasingly pro gay and it has shocked me. I had always planned on using the Muslims as way of cleansing the west of the gays but I am no longer convinced that will work.
My view is that we need to attack the Globalists at their weak points. Nothing causes them more pain than “persecution” of gays. Globalists would rather see a million migrants drown in the Mediterranean than even a single gay couple be denied a “wedding” cake to celebrate their faggotry.
Umm, iirc they still occasionally hang them in Iran (not to speak of torture, imprisonment etc.), and IS threw them off buildings, so I think Islamists in general do tend to be pretty strongly against homosexuality.
Globalists/Managerial Liberals, whatever you want to call them care about the maintenance of the political status quo in their own countries, especially the rate of Euro-Atlantic integration, and the spread of Altanticism abroad. I don’t think they care too much about gays per-se; (gay rights have been rolled back in Turkey and are non-existent in the GCC), except as a pretext to demonise targeted regimes. I haven’t noticed Islamists being any less homophobic, but I suppose homosexuality for them, is one item on a large laundry list of forbidden things. It’s probably down to realpolitik if true: In the west, as long as they don’t explicitly advocate violence against their own counties, they’re pretty much left alone and most don’t want to change that by rocking the boat. Secular Muslims can be quite macho, so I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense.
ISIS aren’t really Islamists, they are something new. Iranians are Shi’ites so I don’t think they are a very good example. Islamists would be more like Saudi Arabia (extreme), Erdogan (moderate) or even Hamas (somewhere in between), none of whom has ever shown any real interests in gays. I think Pakistan even has outright Sharia law and the gays there are basically left alone.
I don’t read a lot of Islamic theology, but from what I have read Muslim clerics don’t talk about homosexuality very much. They aren’t nearly as obsessed with it as are Evangelical Christians.
IS aren’t Islamists? Umm, if a movement that wants to restore the caliphate, isn’t Islamist, exactly what is it then?
Saudi-Arabia even has the death penalty for homosexual acts…I don’t think they’ve enforced it in recent years, but they do jail and flog homosexuals. Certainly one of the less gay-friendly places on earth.
I don’t care much about those issues, but I can’t imagine it’s much fun being a homo in large parts of the Islamic world.
Point taken: indeed, Chechnya is no Saudi Arabia. Still, I imagine most rural/mountain areas aren’t all that close (travel-wise) to non-Muslim population centers. Mountain villages, it’s a very special environment.
Hey Greasy,
Correct, they are Khawarij.
Exactly – they are nihilists – they don’t care about establishing Islam. It is about power.
“This self-destructive dimension has nothing to do with the politics of the Middle East. It is even counterproductive as a strategy. Though Isis proclaims its mission to restore the caliphate, its nihilism makes it impossible to reach a political solution, engage in any form of negotiation, or achieve any stable society within recognised borders.”
“The caliphate is a fantasy. It is the myth of an ideological entity constantly expanding its territory. Its strategic impossibility explains why those who identify with it, instead of devoting themselves to the interests of local Muslims, have chosen to enter a death pact. There is no political perspective, no bright future, not even a place to pray in peace. But while the concept of the caliphate is indeed part of the Muslim religious imagination, the same cannot be said for the pursuit of death.”
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/apr/13/who-are-the-new-jihadis
Yes, they don’t because it has never been classified as an “identity”. It is simply a sin. Some people have proclivities towards one sin or another – this is the realm of trials, everyone has a test customized for them. For some it is alcohol, others – drugs, others – homosexuality, others – materialism, etc. If you don’t act on your impulse you get rewarded for suppressing your desire – otherwise you incur a sin.
Islam also dictates what happens in the public space – so governments will take steps to stop gay pride parades or men kissing in public or drag queens or the like. If they want to sin in private, nobody cares – it’s their afterlife.
If they are actually stupid enough to have open sex in such a way that four adult men can bear witness to seeing the penis enter the anal cavity – then they will be punished, severely; consider it a Darwin Award. In most of the other schools, the punishment is death – the Hanafi school is open to discretionary punishment which can be anything from imprisonment, flogging, etc. up to death.
While I don’t think Kadyrov should simply ignore it if there are Chechen men being tortured or being punished by vigilante mobs – the West should be open to taking these people in if they are so concerned about their rights to be openly gay in public.
Peace.
“Maybe that’s a mistake and one should try to convince others.”
There is no convincing them, unfortunately. I have been involved in verbal scuffles with people about the refugees. There is no getting through to them. They have little to no coherent arguments to support them- they simply get emotional about the topic and make it personal. Once you’re marked as a persona non grata, your arguments become completely meaningless to them and they entrench their positions even more.
If it was power I could at least understand it, but it’s not even that. Maybe for the guys at the top. But the rank and file are really just in it so that they can rape, murder and, most of all, torture.
Think about it this way: Al Qaeda is not only extreme, they also really hate Iran. Yet when what would eventually become ISIS started to percolate in Sunni Iraq, Al Qaeda was so horrified they abandoned the fight rather than work with them. Even ultra extreme Al Qaeda preferred Iranian domination to even making a temporary alliance of convenience with ISIS.
Well, I guess it doesn’t matter anymore since ISIS is on their way out. I have to admit though that I thought sectarian tensions would allow them to last a couple of decades but they just alienated too many people.
It is personal. They want to destroy you. Once you understand that, everything else makes sense.
There was some politician in Austria whose daughter was murdered by a refugee she was helping and the politician and his wife chose hold a drive raising money for refugees in honor of their daughter. This is a religion and these people are not fucking around: they mean business.
Hey Reiner Tor,
Sure if you want a bunch of castrated Germans and Swedes walking around. Do you think Chechen children are raised on anything other than Chechen mothers’ milk?
If anyone doubts what I am saying, I suggest reading the accounts of Tsar’s Russian officers that assaulted the Chechen aouls in the first wars. The women came out with daggers in hand and joined the fray once their men were being pushed back.
Peace.
Can’t believe a columnist here at Unz unironically refers to pol.
I dunno, the sheer humor value of TRUE LEADER IN ARMOR is priceless.
If only extreme methods stop degeneracy, then extreme methods are those which are necessary. Fairly simple but meaningful lesson.
Are you referring to this?
Lol, hadn’t seen that. Thanks for bringing it up!
I think you’re confusing this with the murder of Maria Ladenburger in Freiburg. This was somewhat misreported in alt-right circles on the net…her parents asked people to donate to some charity project their daughter had been involved with…which was about primary school education in Ghana, not about refugees.
But yes, many “refugees welcome” people do come across like deranged cultists.
The native Caucasian tribes are practically undomesticated Arabs some of whom have become slightly depigmented due to the higher altitudes. The Russian attitude to them is as similar as the European attitude to the Arabs proper.
By the way, you must know that according to the official racial classifications the people of MENA are considered white. So when some of the European far-right are speaking about the racial replacement/war they say nonsense: the so-hated MENA immigrants are white in theory. The only problem may be Islam, but come on, after all it is just another Abrahamic religion like Christianity. Praying five times a day and feasting one month a year must not be that difficult, and the Islamic family values is what the Europeans need for mere surviving (when the long disrespected traditional Christian family values are failing at this).
It is extremely shameful for Russia that this man still has power in Russia. In a civilized country a political leader must not answer to allegations of torture with “they are not people, I don´t care”. How can Putin accept that this man openly denies the rule of law in a part of Russia? Also the Chechens have nothing to do with the Atomic Bomb. Without Russia they would be as wealthy and technological advanced as maybe Afghanistan.
Officers of the Russian troops often took local girls as concubines. Example:
“Another wife Yermolov took during the expedition to Akusu. Arriving there he saw the daughter of a local nobleman Aka named Totai, a girl of rare beauty. Ermolov wished to take her … But …the girl was immediately married to a fellow villager Iskander to prevent Yermolov to take her to Georgia.
However, the highlanders were not familiar with resolute character Yermolov.
Yermolov sent Prince Kaka-Shura with the instruction to kidnap Totai…Officers explained to the girl’s father that she is in any case can not be returned to him, and handed him the ring, earrings and a fur coat daughter.
Totai lived with Yermolov in Tiflis for about seven years and bore him a son of Allah-Yar (Sever), Omar (Claudius) and another, who died at the very tender age, and the daughter Spinat (Sofia Khanum). Ermolov gave his sons to the cadet corps, and the daughter left to his wife, when he was recalled from the Caucasus, Totai refused to accept Christianity and go with him to Russia. She returned home and came out later to marry a resident of the village of Gili. Yermolov made an appointment for her annual maintenance – three hundred rubles, and daughter – five hundred“
What is the racial history of the Chechens ? Did people like Kadyrov get those blue eyes and blondish hair because of the relatively recent expansion of the Russian empire into Chechnya, or is there evidence that these people looked like this going back thousands of years.
You answered your question yourself.
Chechnya is not a distant country, it is neighborhood.
Ramsay helps to ensure that it is a quiet neighborhood.
Mere women with daggers were hardly a match to the Cossacks with long and dangerous shashkas who were specially trained to cut heads with them. Not to mention rifles and guns.
I suppose you meant the desperate Chechen women of that time were the first shahidi “black widows”, only that at the first appearance of the Cossacks they committed mass suicides with those daggers not having any better ways of doing this like bombs today.
For that they have always had their beloved ewes and does at their disposal. No wonder the Middle Eastern ideal of beauty has been expressed metaphorically with gazelle.
This is complete nonsense
http://imgur.com/a/ZC1Q4
Or Wedding in the style of Reiner Thor
http://imgur.com/a/7avIX
Its not Arabs
Anyone can make allegations. For example, there are allegations about the Clinton mafia murdering dozens of people over the years, some quite recently; I don’t see those allegations investigated.
Also, he didn’t say “they are not people”, he said: “we don’t have those kinds of people here”.
Not sure. Perhaps some of the elites and NGOs have a nefarious purpose for pushing the multi-culti agenda, but I don’t think the average pro-immigrant westerner harbors some secret, malevolent plans for population replacement, Islamisation etc. Most are just conditioned by the media, society and a warped view of history ( ie. thinking that enforcing borders is racism, hence nazism, hence literally Hitler ). Most of the people who are the most ardent supporters of these “progressive” values stand to lose the most once the consequences of said values start to bloom.
The indigenous population of the Caucasus was historically relatively “light”
Ammianus Marcellinus (IV в.н.э.)
“Almost all of the Alans are tall and good looking; their hair is generally blond, and their eyes are frighteningly fierce”
Alans – direct ancestors of modern Ossetians http://www.balto-slavica.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16468&page=1
“Anyone can make allegations.”
true, but not the point.
“Also, he didn’t say “they are not people”, he said: “we don’t have those kinds of people here”.”
watch the video, 0:59.
Hey BorisN,
Are we talking about Cossacks or post-modern German and Swedish men – many of whom should be labeled metro-sexual?
No, I meant what I said. Chechen women were known to fight to the death. I said they fought, I didn’t say they won. The Russians often wiped out entire villages; man, woman and child – so many times, they had nothing to lose. If you have a reference that Naqshbandi Chechen women committed mass suicides, I’d love to see it.
Peace.
Maybe that’s a mistake and one should try to convince others.
My experience is that there is 0% chance of convincing others directly, and one always pays the price of being thought a racist.
So I adopt a completely different approach: I point out that it is truly inhumane to make people literally “run the gauntlet”, at a real risk to their lives, to reach Europe (which is of course true). Rather, I go on, it would be far better to simply facilitate anyone coming to Europe who wants to. At which point, there are usually some murmurs of agreement. Then I add, but of course we have to accept that European civilisation and culture as we know it will be totally submerged and disappear. Some mild voices of protest. But, I add, this is an entirely natural phenomenon, no different really than the disappearance of the Sumerian, Hittite and Inca civilisations. At which point, there is usually an awkward silence, but I generally have the impression that I have created at least an element of doubt in some people’s minds. Under the circumstances, this is probably the best one can hope for.
Hey melanf,
As I said to BorisN, I never said they won – they obviously did not. Yermolov was the head-honcho (brought in after the failures of previous generals) and the butcher of the Caucasus. Men like him or Cossacks taking Chechen concubines is not that surprising. The idea of current German or Swedish men taking Chechen concubines is…well, anyone else have a good adjective to describe it?
Peace.
That looks like classic Mamluk armor. The Caucasian peoples supplied some of the best slave soldiers the Muslims ever fielded. It was men like them (and, of course, the Turkish ones) that were able to stop the Mongol juggernaut at Ayn Jalut where all other armies had failed:
“New archaeological material and research underpins this extensive, detailed and beautifully illustrated account of the famous Mamluk Askars who are credited with finally defeating and expelling the Crusaders, halting the Mongol invasion of the Islamic Middle East, and facing down Tamerlane. Probably the ultimate professional soldiers of the medieval period they were supposedly recruited as adolescent slaves, though recent research has begun to undermine this oversimplified interpretation of what has been called the ‘Mamluk phenomenon’.”
https://ospreypublishing.com/mamluk-askari-1250-1517
Dang – those young Chechen men in that video are in solid shape, very impressive specimens – mashaAllah! Another people I have noticed are the Uzbeks in our community, they all look like they work out, even though I know they all don’t; solid athletic male V-shaped torsos with low body-fat.
Peace.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chechen+children&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiT8Pyy1I7VAhVKjlQKHfEfDogQ_AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=760
Germany, okay, they can become Lutherans (Prussia etc.) or Catholics (Bavaria etc.). But to what would they be converted to marry Swedes? Feminism?
Wait, hmm– that might actually catch on. You could set up a feminist boot-camp of sorts somewhere and “reeducate” for a couple of years. But I don’t think you’d be doing the poor Swedes any favors…
But a lot of pro-immigrationists argue just like that…peoples, cultures, civilizations, they all come and go, has always been happening, nothing to get worked up about, it’s all totally natural.
On the other hand, many people seem unable to imagine the likely consequences of mass immigration. One example from my personal experience: In January 2016 I spoke to a female acquaintance (this was early in the year when the Cologne sex assaults had just become public, but the scale wasn’t yet known, so I didn’t mention them in our conversation). She tells me she could see herself working in the refugee industry, helping migrants to “integrate”…all in a tone that suggested she saw the refugee influx as a potential chance for her own job prospects. Also lots of complaining about East Germans (“reunification shouldn’t have happened”) and Eastern Europeans (“shouldn’t have been admitted to the EU because they don’t share our values”), because they’re so horribly “racist”.
Anyway, after we had finished our dinner, we walk around a bit on the street, and see quite a few veiled Islamic women (don’t know if they were migrants, could have been Arab tourists).
She states that such displays of Muslim piety make her uncomfortable (she’s atheist of course and has even formally left church which I haven’t yet done).
I ask her: “If you’re made uncomfortable by that, why are you so strongly in favour of Germany taking in hundreds of thousands of refugees? You do know most of them are Muslims, don’t you?”.
Her answer: “I don’t believe the people coming to Germany now are really that religious at all”.
That woman has a university degree and is currently a PHD student. Yet apparently it never occurred to her that the migrants might have totally different values which in many ways are incompatible with the professed values of Western “progressives”.
That’s just a level of ignorance and delusion that I have difficulty understanding. Yet it seems to be quite common among supposedly intelligent and educated people.
Wow, that sounds exactly like what I just suggested (#52).
Женщина– она тоже человек!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=22Rj9GLmJYE
Arabs and other MENA types have about the same average IQ as American blacks. Probably this is primarily due to their constant inbreeding, which also makes them unfit to create or sustain European style states and societies due to clanishness. I suppose if you were to outlaw cousin marriage and islam you could integrate a moderate number of MENA migrants into European society over several generations. Good luck with that. Until than, they’re not white.
And here I’ve already used up my LOL.
That’s just a level of ignorance and delusion that I have difficulty understanding. Yet it seems to be quite common among supposedly intelligent and educated people.
Your’re right, of course, and I’m afraid that my own university-plus children suffer the same “delusion”, at least to a certain extent. I think the basic problem is that for “educated” people their contact with “foreigners”, and in fact with people in general, is largely limited to those with similar backgrounds and education, i.e., those they have gone to school and university with. The large majority of foreigners they come in direct contact with are in fact quite well integrated into Western society. My children, and your friend I assume, have very limited experience with “common” people, and for this reason they have difficulty comprehending the incompatibility of the large majority of immigrants with Western society. This lack of contact with “common” people (in this case, UK “natives”) also explains their shock and bewilderment with UK BREXIT.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-10/merkel-migrant-blowback-begins-chechen-sharia-police-terrorize-berlin
You people were born in the wrong century, I really pity you.
Eighty years ago, you would have chance to applaud the extermination of Trotskyite wreckers and Japanese spies, and swoon over tough based men like Ezhov, Yagoda and Beria.
Now you are left with clowns like Kadyrov. Sic transit gloria mundi.
Mamluks who defeated the Mongols was the Polovtsy (the ancestors of modern Tatars). In the later period of the Mamluks formed from Circassian slaves, but this was the era of the decline of the Mamluks (they were defeated by Tamerlane first, then by the Ottomans)
“They are shaitans, they are corrupt, they are not people. Damn them for what they are to slander us” (Они шайтаны, они продажные, они не люди. Будь они прокляты за то что они на нас наговаривают)
That is, “they are not people” Kadyrov said about the journalists who accused him of persecution of gays, not about gays.
Hey melanf,
You are talking about who was in charge of the Mamluks – their composition was never uniform and had everyone from Georgians, Albanians, etc. And yes the Bahri Mamluks (mostly Turkish) were better administrators – they being the apex of the Mamluk Sultanate – than the Burji Mamluks (mostly Caucasian) who did start running things into a decline. That’s why I mentioned it was men like the Caucasians with the Turks who fought back the Mongols. Rarely is history ever just a white-hat/black-hat affair.
Peace.
You lost the point.
Women of the Caucasian highlanders (and any other women), captured by the enemy, became concubines of the conquerors. Totai could in wedding night to cut Yermolov throat, but she didn’t. And other Russian military men lived with concubines – highlanders girls, and was not afraid for they throats or balls.
If the highlanders women massively prefer death to captivity, then such traditions of the highlanders would have been impossible
http://imgur.com/a/68dnF
Well modern Swedish…probably if Chechen girls had a choice they would massively marry Swedes, for their high standard of living.
The genetic load from inbreeding goes away immediately in the next generation if you prohibit marriages to all relations down to the 3rd cousin level. That would lead to a jump of several IQ points, which would become the new normal for the group.
Hey melanf,
Sure I can see that. I do know that both things happened; some Chechen women became concubines and some fought to the death. By the way, I looked into this liaison with Yermelov – she never accepted Christianity and bore him a bunch of children that seem to have remained Muslims (naming a son Allah-Yar is a very Sufi thing to do). He left her and she married some Muslim guy else later.
I didn’t say they prefer death to captivity (especially if they were getting captured by other Chechens) all the time but if you tried to force convert them and marry them off to Swedish or German guys – you really think things would go smoothly?
Chechen women would voluntarily marry non-Muslim Swedish guys to raise their material status – really? I mean that’s your opinion but do you have anything to back that up? Muslim women definitely like to marry “up”, but only the ones very far from the religion consider marrying a non-Muslim – even marginally religious ones don’t break that boundary.
Peace.
The Mamluks who fought the Mongols were mostly Kipchaks, who were a Turkic group. The Caucasian Mamluks mostly came later in the 14th century.
Ermolov promised his concubine, he will take her sons, but will give her daughters. He kept his word. The sons became Christians and Russian officers (here Claudius (Omar) – Russian General ),
http://imgur.com/a/n5kHR
and the daughter remained a Muslim mountaineers (a portrait made by the Prince Gagarin)
http://imgur.com/a/KLlTE
You must be completely out of touch with reality. 1) Swedish men / women seldom marry… anyone at all. 2) Chechen women prefer Chechen men. 3) The living standard in Sweden is not that high (comparatively speaking, have you checked the home prices vs wages there lately?).
Oh, a little detail – Swedish men like their women “equal”. That means paying for those homes. I’m afraid Chechen women won’t be signing up for that any time soon.
Genetically they seem to be much closer to Turks than to Arabs.
There are already too many “civilised” countries. In fact, even one is too many. Those who profess a faggot identity should be completely beyond the pale.
Guys, since my proposal was not only totally serious, but it’s also to be implemented tomorrow, it’s urgent that any and all problems you can think of be discussed immediately! Please write here in the comments these problems ASAP!
I wrote that probably many Chechen girls marry Swedes, if they have the opportunity. Question about the desires of Swedish men, I had not considered
Prefer, or do not have a choice? I think in many cases girls just have no choice
Yes “equality” is a good thing for men. When I was in high school I thought (under the influence of movies and books) that girls should be courted. But I soon learned that in today’s world, girls courted boys ( and make them an offer hands and hearts) and I was pleasantly surprised.
Kadyrov’s men are professionals. If they had a friendly chat with you, you too would confess and profess “faggot identity” very fast.
“That is, “they are not people” Kadyrov said about the journalists who accused him of persecution of gays, not about gays.”
ok, that´s actually something different.
Yes, I would agree with the others that this is unlikely.
In Russia, only 1.8% of Chechen women marry non-Chechen men.
What can be said in favor of Kadyrov – he has a peculiar architectural taste which manifests itself in the newly buildings
http://imgur.com/a/hcTYW
I think you need to worry about that more than I.
Yes, I think this is what is going on. And I have to admit that as one of the over-educated people in question, I identify much more strongly with other over-educated people, regardless of race, than with my not-so-distant country bumpkin relatives. Identity for many people is much much about culture than about race, and two people with Ph.D.s from different countries may very well share a lot more culture with each other than they do with their kin.
It’s a great film all around. I’ve heard that the cosmonauts had (maybe even have) a ritual of watching it before a mission. Supposedly they identify with the hero, who may very well never make it home.
Hey melanf,
Ah – OK – thanks for the details. I saw a picture of his sons when they were younger and all seemed to be decked out in Chechen regalia – perhaps before he fulfilled his promise.
Peace.
I agree.
Growing up I hated homophobia because I didn’t see what gays did to deserve so much animosity, and it wasn’t their choice anyway. But the last ~5 years have shown us that gays don’t want to be “left alone”, they want to destroy normal people.
They started this war and the penalty will be their own annihilation.
Yup. I don’t think there is a need to split hairs on this. I’m not sure anything that I wrote contradicts this. It is the fairly conventional view that Mamluks or the ‘ghulams’ that preceded them were being recruited since Abbasid times from the area of the North Caucasus and beyond. The preference was indeed the Kipchaks at the beginning (Prof. David Nicolle wrote that due to their formidable archery-on-horseback, just the sight of them was considered enough to maintain order), but that doesn’t mean it was exclusively Kipchaks. Other ethnicities were involved and even became dominant at another time:
“Historians have traditionally broken the era of Mamlūk rule into two periods—one covering 1250–1382, the other, 1382–1517. Western historians call the former the “Baḥrī” period and the latter the “Burjī,” because of the political dominance of the regiments known by these names during the respective times. The contemporary Muslim historians referred to the same divisions as the “Turkish” and “Circassian” periods, in order to call attention to the change in ethnic origin of the majority of Mamlūks, which occurred and persisted after the accession of Barqūq in 1382, and to the effects that this change had on the fortunes of the state.”
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mamluk
Peace.
Do you have any gay relatives, friends, or friendly acquaintances? I have some of each, and all of them are rather modest people who don’t want to bother normal people. But if attacked, they will be forced to defend themselves with violence or to be annihilated, as you say. I am opposed to the violent normalisation of abnormality as much as the next person, but I am also very against a violent attack on normal abnormal people.
That’s just Greasy doing his “thugg lyfe” routine – don’t worry about it. He was talking about destroying all Persians a little while ago.
He’s an acquired taste.
Peace.
It is not the individual, but the nation/community.
Your average faggot is probably no worse a person than anybody else. My brother in law is gay and “married” to another guy and they both seem like decent people. But the gay community as a whole wants to destroy normal people. Their lynch mobs towards Christian bakers and the fact that they gave over 80% of their votes for Hillary (higher than Latinos!) shows exactly what they want for us.
Persians? Really? I have a special affection for them.
I once read an article that related that Putin has restored order in the southern marches of the newly constituted Russian Empire by returning to the time-honored Czarist practice of employing local strong men to keep the peace and ensure loyalty to the Russian state.
The local strong men are basically given a free hand with respect to means for maintaining peace and loyalty within their clan-based societies. Tolerance with respect to (often extra-judicial) means is a practical accommodation to the fact that the marches are populated by peoples with alien cultures and religions … alien to Russia and Christianity as well as alien to Europe and the rule of law. They are more Asian than European.
First of all, I said Iranians, not Persians. Iran is less than 50% Persian. There is no such thing as “Persian Nationalism”, only Iranian Nationalism. I have met several Iranians in my life (couldn’t stand any of them) and none of them described themselves as Persian. Methinks maybe you do not know a lot of Iranians.
2nd of all, I have always been clear that the anti Iran stuff is a Jewish thing. I don’t expect non Jews to hate Iranians. But the anti gay stuff is a human thing. I do expect decent people to hate gays after witnessing their behavior for the last 5 years.
How exactly do you think the gays should be dealt with? Or maybe you think that when your son loses his job or has his kids taken because he doesn’t support gay marriage enthusiastically enough that that is okay?
Yeah – well so does Greasy. He really likes their women – but wants to blow them up. I’m telling you, he’s an acquired taste.
If, you’ve been reading my posts, you’ll know I’m a huge Persian fan (I’ll pass on their women, but I have to admit that Persian spoken in a female voice is very, very attractive) and do NOT want them blown up.
Peace.
Pretty sure you are the only man on earth who feels that way
For once, I agree with you as well.
In a healthy society, the people’s rage against the poz is like a fierce guard dog which its master (the government) has to control and direct and hold back. There are no words for the foul decadence of a nation where faggotry is not only encouraged by the rulers but even accepted by the people.
Hey Greasy,
OK – I stand corrected – you want to blow up Iran inclusive of its Persians, Tajiks, Kurds, Azeris and others.
I do know Iranians – knew a bunch in university. I think my experience was different for obvious reasons though.
I honestly do not hate gays – I am extremely grateful that God has not tested me with that affliction. And also this new thing where a man wakes up in the morning and doesn’t know whether he is a male any more after 5o years. However, that doesn’t mean I’m OK with them remaking society in their image.
You are putting the cart before the horse. Gay dominance is a symptom of the disease. The West has considered religion inconvenient to its development. That’s all fine, then one has to deal with the consequences. The funny thing is, I see many people on the Alt-Right lamenting what has happened to morality in the public sphere and then demanding that Muslims get on board. This is actually something that the Big Daddy Atheist (Nietzsche) already predicted:
“When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one’s feet. This morality is by no means self-evident: this point has to be exhibited again and again, despite the English flatheads. Christianity is a system, a whole view of things thought out together. By breaking one main concept out of it, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one’s hands. Christianity presupposes that man does not know, cannot know, what is good for him, what evil: he believes in God, who alone knows it. Christian morality is a command; its origin is transcendent; it is beyond all criticism, all right to criticism; it has truth only if God is the truth — it stands and falls with faith in God. When the English actually believe that they know “intuitively” what is good and evil, when they therefore suppose that they no longer require Christianity as the guarantee of morality, we merely witness the effects of the dominion of the Christian value judgment and an expression of the strength and depth of this dominion: such that the origin of English morality has been forgotten, such that the very conditional character of its right to existence is no longer felt.”
So you are asking the wrong question. The question should be; after having seen which way this experiment is going, are people willing to give up the right to define their own morality? This is a metaphysical problem – not a political one.
Peace.
Hey Greasy,
Already married – and my spiritual guide won’t let me even consider getting a second (beyond the fact that it’s illegal here – I guess some consensual adult relationships aren’t as kosher as others). So, in all honesty, I’ll pass on all other women.
But if I was in the market, I don’t think I would want a Persian from the US – most are far too materialistic. I might consider one of them from Iran proper from a religious family.
Peace.
That’s certainly true, but shouldn’t high-IQ, educated people be able to understand that this isn’t the whole picture? This level of ignorance irritates me.
Besides, we’ve now reached a state where even many middle class people must have had unpleasant experiences.
Here in Moskvabad, my wife just had a rather unpleasant experience with a drunk gopnik coming on to her. So far, however, she’s had no problems with Caucasians or Turkish peoples. And I have had no problems with anyone. That’s our n=2 study.
I also find Persian women attractive, and being one of the cucked Ph.D.s that people like to complain about around here, I exclusively know or know of only highly intelligent ones. But I have to disagree with you about them speaking Persian. I find it rather whiny. However, they are cute when speaking English.
Even if your spiritual advisor allowed you a second woman, and you lived in a country where that was allowed, how would it work between you and a Persian woman? Aren’t they all either Shias or atheists?
For myself, one Russian Orthodox woman is enough. And sometimes more than enough!
If you don’t understand the difference between the usual drunks and the territorial behaviour of many Muslim immigrants (manifested in e.g. calling non-Muslims “Kaffirs” and making certain areas no-go-areas for women, both directly experienced in Western European settings by people close to me, even 10-20 years ago), I can’t help you.
Maybe university-educated people should be stripped of their voting rights for some time, after all they seem prone to a special kind of stupidity.
Let me clarify my point. Most highly intelligent people deal mostly with other highly intelligent people, and so know if you live in Moskvabad, you know a number of highly intelligent and decent Africans, Caucasians, Turkic people, and so on. On the other hand, you certainly know plenty of examples of idiotic and down right dangerous Russians. You then naturally conclude that Africans, Caucasians, and Turkic people are not the problem. It’s the gopniks.
But of course there are far many more gopniks than gastarbeiters. This is the base rate fallacy. And if you spent all your life studying Pushkin and Tchaikovsky, you probably haven’t heard of that. And even if you do know about the base rate fallacy, it is very hard to remember it in the heat of the moment. Humans are just bad at statistics. And this also goes for “race realists”. In short, I am disinclined to conclude anything without looking at the data. But when the data shows that some group is more likely on average to cause trouble, then I agree that something decisive should be done about it.
See my comment 99, written while you were writing comment 98. I do understand the difference and think it is important. I am simply trying to explain why it is so difficult for university educated people to see where you are coming from.
Sunni Islam allows you to marry a Shia? Is this a “Sufi” thing?
You mentioned Sufism before and I had never heard of it. I was inspired to start looking into it and it is has a lot of very strong similarities to Kabbalah. In fact, some people think that Kabbalah was heavily inspired by Sufism. I mean, obviously they originated independently but Kabbalist may have borrowed some things from Sufi mystics they knew.
Yeah I couldn’t do 2 wives either. I don’t even know how a man keeps one wife happy. Judaism also allows multiple wives although in practice nobody does it anymore.
Now let’s share a non alcoholic toast to the continued world wide persecution of gays.
More about the base rate fallacy, and how it cuts both ways.
Suppose you have a country C with two distinct subpopulations Y and Z. They could be of different class, race, religion, or whatever. Suppose 80% of the residents of C are from population Y and 20% from population Z. Now it happens that country C has a big problem with women being assaulted. Suppose for simplicity that women of population Z are for some reason never assaulted and that all assaults on women are perpetrated by men. Now suppose that the government of country C is trying to act rationally to solve this problem. The first thing that they do is to start keeping statistics on the perpetrators of assaults (since they are acting rationally, they tell the blank slaters to suck it up). After a while, it becomes clear that men from population Z are far more likely to assault women from population Y than are men from population Y. Say for example that 1 in 10,000 men from population Z periodically assault Y-women, while only 1 in 100,000 men from population Y do so. (I am deliberately choosing
We need to put a stop to this! Let’s round up all of those Z-men, put them in a ghetto, and then the Y-women will be safe, right?
Well, let’s work out what would happen. If the total population of men is N, both Y and Z, then there are 2N/10^5 Z-men who would periodically assault Y-women, and they are now in the ghetto and can’t harm Y-women. Although there are still 8N/10^6 Y-men who will periodically assault Y-women, but that’s 2/5ths the number of Z-men who would have been doing so. This seems like progress. On the other hand, you have to ghettoize all of the Z people, both men and women, a total of 2N/5 people. The purely material cost of doing that is surely much greater than trying to directly target all of the men, both Y and Z, who are causing the trouble. For example, in a country of 2N=10,000,000 people, you are going to be dealing with 100 Z-men and 40 Y-men (even though Z-men are 10 times more likely than Y-men to assault Y-women).
Your conclusions can vary a lot as you change the assumptions, but the point is that you have to actually think through the situation before concluding what is the best way to deal with the problem. And if someone is proposing solutions without actually looking at the statistics and trying to optimize, then although they say they are interested in solving the problem, they are almost certainly interested in something else.
As King Solomon said, Better to live in the woods with a bear than in a house with a discontented woman.
Anatoly,
If you strip out the more “vibrant” parts of Russia, such as Chechnya and Dagestan, how does Russia perform relative to other Western countries in terms of economic development, corruption, test scores, etc.? Do they dramatically skew the results similar to various demographics in America?
Btw, have you read this:
http://exiledonline.com/spot-the-chechen/
Hey Greasy,
Yes – but it’s highly discouraged from both sides. They are Muslims – Muslims can marry other Muslims.
http://ammanmessage.com/
No – Sufis don’t get to declare haram and halal except if they are qualified jurists.
Sufism is and has been an integral part of Islam. The Salafis and Wahhabis would deem it otherwise – but even they can’t get away with having to quote scholars that were known Sufis in our past.
Watch the below for about 5 minutes:
https://youtu.be/uQWNeGyRu0k?t=4m15s
Insert joke about being married to more than one Jewish woman here…Oy vey!
Thugg lyfe!
Peace.
Hey TBRS,
Yeah – it’s similar to the way Syrians speak Arabic in that way. Maybe it’s because I can understand a good chunk of it since I speak a derivative language (Urdu).
That too.
Shias are OK to marry but highly discouraged for Sunnis due to the large amount of differences in praxis and certain beliefs. But keep in mind, Persia was Sunni (mostly Shafi’i school) for the majority of her time under Islam – there are still plenty of Sunnis around who are Persian and other ethnicities.
(Yes there is a bit of propaganda in the documentary, but still good as a whole)
Peace.
Wikipedia describes Urdu as a “persianized” form of Hindustani. Does that just mean lots of loan words and a Persian style script, or is their Persian influence in the grammar?
Hey TBRS,
Hindi and Urdu are basically the same thing – though classical and high-level Urdu (like poetry) is heavily Persian influenced.
Everything. For a long time, the language of administration for the Mughals was Persian.
Peace.
I am not interested in putting anyone into a “ghetto” (and after that in a death camp?), I’m interested in the removal of illegal immigrants who shouldn’t even be in the country and who even according to official statistics are disproportionately criminal, and in preventing the immigration of such people in future.
Why so serious? The original comment I was answering to was not too serious, so one might have expected my answer would not be very serious, either.
If being serious anybody may clearly cherry-pick photos of hot Caucasian chicks who are hardly different from average Russian chicks, but in no way the Caucasians as a whole are no different from Russians/North Slavs/North Europeans. And in no way a Russian can fail to see the difference between a Russian and a Caucasian. It is not about skin and hair colours, let us not to be blinded by the coarse American dichotomic (black-white) racialism, where they know only colours. There are the skull and facial structures, etc., which most Russians can quite recognize. I thought you as a Russian could see the difference, but you act like a leftie internationalist with racial blindness. Of course, there are a few Caucasians who may look like Russians, and a few Russians who may look like the Caucasians, but that’s the case where exceptions prove the rule.
And instead of cherry-picking some random photos you had better to look at the pageants of various regional beauty contests. Anybody with no racial blindness can see the difference between the pageants for Misses in the North Caucasian republics and in the Central Russian regions (who’d win does not matter much here).
Yes, there are a lot of specially cherry-picked photos of depigmented tribesmen from the Pamirs and Hindukush, particularly children (who are always less pigmented than the adults). Though it does not mean one cannot see the obvious difference between your average adult Afghani/Pakistani and an Englishman/Swede (at least it has been thus until recently).
Hey BorisN,
Sure, I can usually tell the difference between a Punjabi and others like Balochis – definitely you wouldn’t mistake a Bengali for someone from the Malabar Coast. But Caucasians…Arabs they are not – though there are plenty of light-skinned Arabs around the Levant that one can hardly distinguish from Spanish or Portuguese.
Peace.
Yes, that’s somewhat correct. To be precise they belong to the broader Balkan-Caucasian sub-race. Yet they are still very close to the Arabic type which belongs to the Indo-Mediterranean sub-race. So my intentionally hyperbolic statement was not entirely wrong.
http://web-local.rudn.ru/web-local/uem/ido/antrop/5.html#5.5.3
The same I can make a difference between a North Caucasian (or South Caucasian for that matter) and a Russian/Central/North European, which you claim are the same, that is “white” (a silly term of dumb Americans). For “Arabs” see my previous answers, I’m not going to repeat myself specially for you. People, you seem to be too meticulous and quibble over mere single words. If you want a scientific dispute about the racial classification I’m ready to it, but y’all will likely to fail at it as I’m sure I’m more competent at it than anybody here, just for one reason: English-language physical anthropology has ceased to exist after WWII, and you do not read Russian.
And by the way, according to your western dichotomic mainstream racial classification Arabs are as white as Chechens so your objections are all silly. Whom are you arguing with, the US Census Bureau?
Then, Chechens are not, either.
When one talks about Arabs as an ethnic group, it is better to be precise. Most Arab-speaking people are not what would be considered true Arabs. True Arabs are those who can trace themselves back to one of the original tribes from the peninsula:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribes_of_Arabia
The rest are those who adopted the language – and those could be any ethnic group who become Arab-speakers.
You were speaking about the brave Chechen women of the 19 century, so I continued with the brave Russian Cossacks of the time.
Fighting with hardcore professional warriors who were trained to kill (like the Cossacks) is always practically a suicide for a woman.
Women of all nations and tribes are known to join the fight when their men fell, so there is nothing particular there (though fighting housewives are usually ineffective, and they have done it mostly out if despair as a last resort). You’ve just repeated the nationalist self-admiration mythology of the Chechens about how brave they have always been, including their super-duper women.
‘Arabs’ are merely a bunch of people whose native language is Arabic. The peoples of Caucasus are those who live in the Caucasus; all kinds of folks live there.
Hey BorisN,
I don’t think they are the same. They look similar, but have totally different heritage – aren’t Russians descended from Varangians (Scandinavians)?
I don’t prefer the term “White” much since it is removed of original ethnic European connotations. It might work in America since everyone is so mixed up here.
Nope – I have no bones about it. “White” covers a heck of a lot of people.
Sure, if scientists want to classify it that way, it make no difference to me.
But many people on UNZ don’t seem to think so. Then again, some don’t even consider people like Greeks to be sufficiently “White”. I recognize genetic differences, but I don’t really care much about them like others do. Character counts much more for me than anything else and that is sometimes mixed up with a group’s culture and sometimes completely imdependent.
Peace.
Arabs are “white”, Chechens are “white”, they both belong to the southern branches of the Europoid/Caucasoid race, so my hyperbole about “Chechens are undomesticated Arabs” was right. Period. Stop picking at my words.
So I do not understand what we were arguing about. What exactly do you disagree about? Don’t you people understand the word “hyperbole”? Why didn’t you pick at “Chechens are undomesticated white”? I think the latter statement is more controversial.
OK – I see your point.
Sure, but not the same as taking one’s own life in despair.
I don’t think so – I believe people like Chechens and other Caucasians are a cut above the rest (same with other martial people like Ghurkas, Marathas, Cossacks) – most people that live in difficult terrain, like they do, tend to be tough people – Scots for instance. There was a reason why people like them were chosen to serve as Mamluks. And they have been fairly brave in practically every battlefield they have fought on. They beat back Russia against tremendous odds the first time in the early 1990’s – fairly amazing for a nation so dwarfed in size and population to their opponent – most would have capitulated far earlier.
“‘These people. They fight like werewolves. By day they are human. By night wolves. It is much worse than Afghanistan. The Chechens are the toughest, cruellest people in the world,’ he said.
There were six of them, in their late twenties, all from Siberia, tall and athletic with several days’ growth of beard. They were Spetsnaz – Russia’s elite special forces. They had just come out of Grozny, where they had been part of the assault on the presidential palace.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/elite-troops-learn-to-respect-chechen-werewolves-1569232.html
“…there was one nation which would not give in, would not acquire the mental habits of submission–and not just individual rebels among them, but the whole nation to a man. These were the Chechens…” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
And then Stalin put them into a crucible where all the weak ones died off and only the stronger ones survived and marched back to their homes.
If you are saying; yeah, well they are the same as Bengalis or Ethiopians or Belgians, what’s the difference? Then you’re entitled to your opinion, but I don’t think it has much traction.
Peace.
I wasn’t arguing – I only responded to melanf’s post with more pictures of Chechen children. What are we arguing about? 🙂
I mean, I still think both statements are too hyperbolic, but hey – to each his own.
Peace.
Funny! I don’t speak Russian; is the proper translation really “The woman– she is also a man!”?
So were the “Mongols” at Ain Jalut. After Mongke’s death, Hulagu left the Middle East to attend the succession councils back east, and took his imperial tumens (ethnic Mongol divisions) with him. He only left Kitbuga with one or two understrength Kipchak tumens, which fought at Ain Jalut along with a few Georgian allies.
Hey Twinkie,
Fortunately for us, eh?
I remember listening to a lecture on history where the speaker mentioned that not enough credit is given to the Mongols that went rogue (Golden Horde) and turned on their fellow Mongols – initiating a devastating civil war from which they were never really able to recover.
Peace.
Человек is a human person, not particularly male or female. So “Woman– she too is a person.” The premise for that scene is that a good Soviet soldier has rescued a harem from execution by their lord. Out of gratitude and presumably custom, they declare that he is now their husband. He tries to explain to them that this in this new, enlightened age of Communism they can each have their own husband. But they are having none of it. They protest that if there is only wife, then she has to do all of the cleaning, cooking, and child-minding all by herself, without any help.
I agree that illegal immigration should be dealt with, that every country needs a sane immigration policy, and that certain subpopulations are disproportionately criminal. So we agree on all of this. Also, I’m not suggested you want to put people in a ghetto (though some other people around here do). My example was over-simplified deliberately.
My only point is that the solution to very real problems is not obvious and needs to be thought through carefully, looking at the data.
So far as I can tell, for example, Russia so far has done a better job than Germany in maintaining public order. For example, it is hard to imagine a gang of Central Asian immigrants public raping Russian women on New Year’s. Nearby Russian men would deal with it before the police even had a chance.
On the other hand, I mentioned that my wife was recently harrassed by a drunk gopnik. This happened on the elektrichka (like the S-Bahn, roughly). She tried to call the conductor of the train to send a security guard. She was told there was no guard on the train on weekends. The next day, however, we were riding together on the same train, and witnessed two police men with batons escorting a young, cleanly dressed, sober Central Asian man. And this is a very regular occurence. Maybe he was illegal. Maybe he was legal but with his documents not quite in order. Maybe he was even a trouble maker. But I have never seen the police escorting a gopnik, even though they often cause trouble, and I have never seen a young Central Asian man causing trouble. Maybe the police are acting rationally, and it is just not obvious to me because of the base rate fallacy (there are far more gopniks than gastarbeiters, so of course I am going to have more problems with gopniks, even if the gastarbeiters are ten times more likely to cause trouble).
So to know what is the rational course of action, you have to look at the base rates, and you also have to know what it is you are trying to optimize. For example, if the police are simply trying to minimize law-breaking, and having your documents in poor order is illegal, while being a drunken arschloch is perfectly legal, then maybe indeed they are acting rationally. But if the police are trying to maximize the ability of normal people to go about their lives, then it is not obvious that they are acting rationally.
Of course Russians are anthropologically different from the indigenous inhabitants of the Caucasus (I never claimed otherwise). Native of the Caucasus in appearance correspond roughly to the Spaniards or Italians (but not the Arabs!). For example, here is an Amateur sports team (it is representative in appearance)
http://imgur.com/a/418GH
Russian course other, more “Nordic”
http://imgur.com/a/RnfnZ
That is the Native of the Caucasus – anthropologically southern Europeans (not Arabs!). Russian – Northern Europeans
Surely you know that unlike “coarse” North American racists, the Nazis did measure skull and facial structures etc, right? And they concluded that you Slavs are untermenschen or subhumans, clearly different from germanics, based on such “refined” measurements. You must know that. How could you not? So why are you lumping Russians/Slavs with non-Slavic Northern Europeans?
Hmm..well, I’ve heard Russian women complain about Caucasians (as well as drunk ethnic Russians) harassing them in Moscow.
Here is a list of the most dangerous public transport systems for women, in terms of being harassed, groped, etc:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/03/which-cities-have-the-most-dangerous-transport-systems-for-women/
The most dangerous place in the world from this perspective is Bogota Columbia, followed by Mexico City, Lima Peru and New Delhi. The worst ones are all in Latin America and southern Asia. Moscow comes in 9th place, highest in Europe. Paris is 11th, London 13th and New York 16th.
I argued that the natives of the Caucasus anthropological – not “Arabs”. It is easy to see in the pageant
Iraq:
http://imgur.com/a/smMMA
Chechnya:
http://imgur.com/a/gH0H3
And then determine without Google which of the two winners of the beauty contest – Russian and which natives of the Caucasus ?
http://imgur.com/a/1cqal
http://imgur.com/a/0uqVe
Thanks for the link. As I said, we ourselves have done only an n=2 study, so not to be taking seriously. I could well believe that Caucasians are likely to harass Russian women. Do you know examples of Russian women being harassed by, for example, Turkic people?
The original is here:
http://news.trust.org//spotlight/most-dangerous-transport-systems-for-women/
So far I’ve only looked at the results for Moscow. Most of the questions are subjective. The two objective ones are whether women have been verbally harassed and whether they have been physically harassed. It gives no information about who did the harassing. The results are a bit strange. First of all, it seems more women have been physically harassed than verbally harassed. Second, the women seem to have almost no confidence that fellow passengers would help them. Moscow is second worst in this category, after Seoul. This very much surprises me and runs completely counter to my experience. Third, Moscow is the worst in the world in terms of the confidence that women have that the authorities will help them. As I said, this can be a real problem on the elektrichka. But it is rather strange for transport inside of Moscow. Well, maybe late at night. Strangest of all is that though a fair number of women have been harassed, and they have almost no confidence in their fellow travelers or the authorities to help, nonetheless they feel fairly safe. By contrast, the “safest cities”, Tokyo and New York, have high rates of physical and verbal harassment, respectively. How does this all add up?
Anyway, my point is that humans are bad at statistics, and that if you actually want to solve a problem, rather than just signal virtue, then you need to analyze good data. What the above survey suggests about Moscow is that there is a problem with harassment of women and possibly an even bigger problem with trust. Probably both problems could be mitigated to some degree by simple confidence building measures on the part of the transit authorities.
When you put them next to each other, it is pretty obvious. But if you saw the first one on the street in Belgorod, would you guess that she’s Caucasian? Anyway, they are both beauties.
It’s probably a function of the degree of crowdedness. When people are squeezed in a subway carriage, women might feel physically harassed. Whether it’s real or not, who knows. I hear in Tokyo they have women-only subway carriages…
Hey Mao,
It’s more common than that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car
It’s a good idea – women need to be protected from jerks and, unfortunately, sometimes there’s just too many jerks around.
Peace.
Yeah, that too. However, I figure, in situations where long/tight physical contact is unavoidable, a good potion of these incidents are either unintentional or wholly imagined.
Don’t know. Many of them are not Russian citizens, or lowly laborers without connections, so I would suspect that they would try to keep a low profile and stay out of trouble.
I agree. The realistic explanation would seem to be:
Russians tend to be pessimistic in general, and on a survey would be more likely to say that no one would help even though they likely would.
That’s why concrete behavior (the questions about physical harassment) is the best measure. On those, Moscow ranks 8th out of 16 (worst among non-Latin American and non-south Asian cities).
Verbal harassment, while a behavior, may be more ambiguous and open to interpretation. While words, say, openly propositioning a woman or using crude language are probably universally seen as harassment, it is possible that flirtation with strangers, or politely expressed praise, may be seen as harassment in some countries more so than in others. When my wife moved to the USA she stated that she felt invisible because Americans were generally afraid to praise her for her appearance, something that occurred randomly commonly in Russia. In Russia only actual verbal harassment may be counted as harassment, while in America openly commenting that a stranger looks nice would be seen as such.
A few years ago when I was in Moscow there was a case in which some Chechens harassed a Russian woman, her Russian companions intervened on her behalf, the situation escalated (one f the Chechens may have pulled a knife, I don’t remember anymore), and the Russian girl pulled out an airgun. She was the one arrested.
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Incidentally, on the web page you linked to, the women on the Moscow subway were by far more beautiful than the ones in any of the other cities. Which, is an accurate representation.
“A few years ago when I was in Moscow there was a case in which some Chechens harassed a Russian woman, her Russian companions intervened on her behalf, the situation escalated (one f the Chechens may have pulled a knife, I don’t remember anymore), and the Russian girl pulled out an airgun. She was the one arrested.”
Maybe AKarlin can dig up a Спутник и погром story on this and tell us about how cucked Russia is.
Well, by defintion, Tajiks are Persians who live outside of Iran… They speak Dari (not necessarily same form as Iranian Dari – Farsi, but still that’s same language).
Good point – Turkmen then.
Peace.