Butina Trutherism

One persistent thing I have noticed in this recent saga is the refusal to believe that there is any civil society in Russia that is even marginally independent of Putler and ROG.

Clarification: While there are genuine pro-“democracy” (pro-LGBT, pro-Ukrainian, etc.) organizations in Russia, which are of course viciously repressed, there are certainly no such movements in support of non-neoliberalism.txt approved causes.

First, because Putler is a fascist, and gun rights are fascist, so of course Russian gun rights activists can’t have any problem with any aspect of the Putlerreich whatsoever.

Second, in Russia “guns are absolutely forbidden,” so there is no way that Putler would tolerate gun rights organizations anyway.

The fact that the two above points are absolutely contradictory is of no apparent concern to this subset of ROG worshippers. The idea that there might be some Russians who might agree with and support Putin on some things, disagree on others, while wanting Russia to raise its score on the Gun Rights Index from the current, relatively restrictive 3.1 to something like Czechia’s 6.4 or America’s 8.0 is completely absurd and can only be advanced by a Putler bot or shill.


maria-butina-trutherism

Comments

  1. Anonymous lurker says

    Those Reddit comments truly are brain cancer. I must admit I find it somewhat amusing to observe this collective descent into Menschian madness, but it is likewise rather worrying. I’m glad I don’t live there.

    Did you see the recent “scoop” (which really was just a piece of Butina’s testimony she gave, as she’s been voluntarily participating with the so-called “investigation” for several months without attempting to leave the country or anything) by the way? Likewise Americanophile entrepreneur (and barely billionaire, supposed net worth $1.1bn) Nikolaev (Konstantin Yurevich) donated money to her Russian organization some four years ago.

    …Whatever that is supposed to indicate, I do not know.

  2. http://harvardpolitics.com/world/russias-foreign-agent-law-an-hpr-explainer/
    November 30, 2017
    On November 25, President Putin signed into law a new provision expanding the definition of “foreign agent” to cover media organizations. This new law is even broader than the “foreign agent” law, and gives the Russian Ministry of Justice enormous discretion over which news agencies must register. Ironically, even RT could qualify as a foreign agent in Russia under this expanded definition.

    Although described as a “tit-for-tat” response to U.S. provocation, the new Russian law is far more expansive than FARA, and leaves all foreign media in Russia at the mercy of the Ministry of Justice. Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, two independent media organizations funded by the US government, have already received ominous “warning” letters from the Russian government.

    The US reaction was not long in coming,

  3. Felix Keverich says

    Anatoly,

    When faced with accusations, that you’re a Putler bot, just tell them, that you’re white-knighting for the girl, hoping she will reward you with sex. It’s more believable anyway. 😉

  4. siberiancat says

    That actually was a Russian reaction to the US labeling RT a Russian agent.

  5. Mr. Hack says

    Are you suggesting that Karlin has a crush on the girl? Three posts in a row now? What next, will Karlin go out and buy a bee bee gun, to really show his solidarity with the cause? 🙂

  6. It started with the 2011 mass protests against Putin. it was only then that he woke up to the danger posed by US “NGO” promotion of ‘civil society’ in Russia. One of the ex heads of Free Europe I think it was, had an op-ed in which he threatened Putin with overthrow if he tried to suppress “democracy’. Clinton also spoke in support of the demos, that is probably why the prospect of her as US pres, and maybe giving the CIA psychological warriors the go ahead to overthrow Putin, terrified the Kremlin. Hence the GRU interference. to make sure she did not get elected. They were more against Clinton than for Trump.

    The trouble with Russia Today (ie now) is that its internal security agencies are small and overworked. The tsarist police force was tiny compared to the army. Ripe for the taking. The Germans transported Lenin to the Russian border, but it was the Russia authorities who made the crucial error of letting Lenin into the country.

  7. There are a number of very good reasons to pay close attention to this case:

    1. This is a straight out perversion of justice. (In contrast, with, say, the Magnitsky Affair – which has received orders of magnitude more attention from everyone – where frankly it seems you’re just defending one set of thieves from another, whichever side you’re on).

    2. It is an excellent way to filter out the wheat from the chaff (those who celebrate Butina’s imprisonment for any reason from Echo of Moscow pond scum to cultural Stalinists claiming that serves her right).

    3. It is also an excellent bellweather to track the ideological weaponization of the American justice system. The timing of the arrest is already deeply disturbing, as is the refusal to grant bail. Any guilty verdict, especially one that comes with imprisonment, will definitively prove that the US justice system has been completely suborned by the Deep State.

    4. It is also of course a cardinal question for any Russian who wants to conduct “social diplomacy” in the US, or even has a substantial presence in both countries.

  8. Soon enough Russians will not be welcome to the US. That is how deranged much of the American population has become. Of course thanks to the deep state and its tools of influence.

  9. She is not pretty. Perhaps has a nice body from behind.

  10. The US has already stopped issuing visas to Russians in Russia, so we’re not that far away (Russians can still get visas, for now, but only in a third country.).

  11. Yes.

    Though it hasn’t stopped taking money from the visa applications! 🙂

  12. You now need to arrange the interview 10 months in advance.

  13. Thorfinnsson says

    US Establishment: Free Trade™ and open borders are great!

    Also US Establishment: Sanctions and draconian travel restrictions are import foreign policy tools

    ??????????????????

  14. …pay close attention to this case…

    Her face is their case. It has everything: Russia, spying, guns, sex, and even the suggestive name (“Butina”, seriously?).

    It feeds the shallow mass perceptions perfectly. This is a story and all the pieces and characters have a role, we just don’t know the ending. And sometimes I am afraid that they don’t either.

  15. That’s not how it works. They take the money for your application and when you go to sign up for the interview online, you get a message that there are no appointments available. If you have a visa that’s expired for less than a year, you can renew it without an interview, maybe those applicants have an easier time.

  16. Karlin had the foresight to leave (escape) the USA before it was too late, because it is no longer in the realms of lunacy to argue that he too would face arrest.

  17. … and even the suggestive name (“Butina”, seriously?).

    Akhedzhakova believes that Maria Butina is actually Putin’s daughter with his name

    Actress Liya Akhedzhakova, known for her strange political preferences, spoke about the detained Mary Butina in the US and was indignant that Sentsov was called a “loser terrorist”.

    The columnist Elena Rykovtseva pointed out to Akhedzhakova her “political mistake”. According to her, Akhedzhakova supported the “terrorist-loser Sentsov”, but did not think to intercede for Maria Butina, who is accused of espionage. Also, the journalist hinted that the actress is being told who can be supported and who is not, as well as to other Echo journalists.

    Then the journalist phoned Lyaya Akhedzhakova and learned her position on this issue. To begin with, she was glad that she was in a good company of Echo journalists. After that, she was indignant, why Sentsov is called an unsuccessful terrorist. “This means failed? For what, then, is he imprisoned? “- Akhedzhakova was indignant.

    As for Maria Butina, the actress stated that she can not support her, because she believes that a woman can be a relative of Putin. “I’m not sure whether she is Butina or Putina. I can not protect “half-Putin”. It’s without me, “she summed up.

  18. Daniel Chieh says

    This is the best timeline.

  19. Thorfinnsson says

    Isn’t the Faker potentially at risk now?

  20. …’m not sure whether she is Butina or Putina’

    This is gold, absolute gold, the stuff writes itself. I am looking forward to the apocalyptic ending. I hope they don’t mess it up as they did with Game of Thrones. They need to work in a sex scene with ‘Carter Page‘, the guy couldn’t unzip and kept his shoes on. The agent with a silly smirk of his face, until he meets Butina…

    We are reaching new heights, Putin’s illegitimate offspring…hey, all of Russia could be called ‘Putin’s bastards’…

  21. It’s what everyone says on the comments the newspapers articles – the US chose her because her name is making your think “Putin” in the unconscious.

  22. Have you tried applying now? I read they said you might need to wait 10 months for an interview (which is completely a waste of time).

    A lot more people now will try to get an additional passport if eligible – it takes less time to do this, than waiting now 10 months just for a visa.

  23. And there could be a really big sex-related scandal developing in France:
    https://diversitymachtfrei.wordpress.com/2018/07/23/france-where-privileged-brown-people-beat-up-white-folks-for-fun/

    Christian Jacob, group leader of Les Républicains, the mainstream right-wing party in France, raised some interesting questions in an interview with Valeurs Actuelles.

    Interviewer: What does this affair reveal about how our institutions function?
    Christian Jacob: That under Jupiter [Macron’s nickname] there are privileges and there is “unhealthy cronyism”, as the the Paris police prefect Michel Delpuech put it during his hearing this afternoon. On what basis can a 26-year-old man, a “nightclub bouncer”, without skills, without experience and without having the status, be responsible for handling presidential protection for a country that is the 5th global power? Why does Benalla have a home on Quai Branly, a car with a chauffeur and a flashing light, a fabulous salary, a gun, a police armband…and accreditation to the National Assembly, a sacred precinct to which even the President of the Republic does not have access? Does this individual, who is at the president’s side daily, have some means of pressuring the president? Faced with so many privileges, we have the right to ask this question.

  24. LondonBob says

    Only seen little bits of this but it does all seem as if this fella is Macron’s bum boy?

  25. Verymuchalive says

    You could be right. If, as claimed, it is the FBI that is the main force behind “Russiagate”, then they might take a perverse delight in caging an alleged minor CIA asset like the Faker.

  26. Looks like the curly-haired man gentleman is shooting a Sig P239. That is a compact gun. Does he have small hands? : )

  27. Anna Chapman did not use a fake name.

  28. Mark Gubrud is either evil or stupid or both, probably both. This judicial lynching is so transparent that anyone involved in it has proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that they are unfit to be allowed anywhere near the criminal justice system except as a defendant.

  29. reiner Tor says

    Or something similar. Remember the Canadian judge and her cuckold husband taking pictures of her while having sex with a black guy, who then tried to blackmail them? So it might be some other arrangement.

  30. Felix Keverich says

    1. This is a straight out perversion of justice. (In contrast, with, say, the Magnitsky Affair – which has received orders of magnitude more attention from everyone – where frankly it seems you’re just defending one set of thieves from another, whichever side you’re on).

    The reason we, as Russians, should care about Magnitsky act is that it was a blatant attempt by the US to create leverage and bully the Russian elite. The point is not to defend individuals, fingered by the American government, but to condemn the very idea, that USA has a right to regulate corruption in Russia, because obviously their goal is not a corruption-free Russia, their goal is a compliant Russian elite.

    I do not celebrate Butina’s predicament, but I think she is wholly responsible for her situation. She didn’t go to America to conduct social diplomacy. She moved for the same reason any young Russian woman moves abroad: to build a “career” in a foreign country by whoring herself out to foreign men. Some of these enterprising Natashas end up in sexual slavery. Foreign ministry does not arrange “flash mobs” to commemorate them.

    It seems that you’re eager to elevate this skank to a level of political prisoner, which she frankly doesn’t deserve.

  31. Mitleser says

    She moved for the same reason any young Russian woman moves abroad: to build a “career” in a foreign country by whoring herself out to foreign men.

    You are trying too hard.

  32. Macron seems more like a homo than a cuckold

  33. reiner Tor says

    Perhaps, but then why did he start a relationship with an older woman at the age of 15? Sure he didn’t need a beard at that age. Especially not following her elsewhere. So it could be some kind of BDSM thing.

    Of course it could be something completely different, like his cocaine supplier or whatever. Or just a bodyguard who knows some dirty secrets. Or just a bodyguard with a talent for ingratiating himself with his boss.

  34. reiner Tor says

    She’s a political prisoner in the sense that the charges against her are politically motivated, and also because the supposed crimes are political, it’s basically her political activity. It’s more difficult to see how she’s not a political prisoner.

  35. Mitleser says

    Macron seems more like a homo

    #HimToo

    https://abload.de/img/houseofmacron9spn7.jpg

  36. Thorfinnsson says

    I suggest a more banal motivation.

    She couldn’t compete with Russian women in the dating market.

    In America, outside of NYC, LA, and Miami, just being thin is usually enough for a gal to get an edge outside of college.

    In that sense she’s no different than the sexpats one finds throughout Southeast Asia and increasingly Japan as well (higher barrier to clear here however).

  37. Cagey Beast says

    4. It is also of course a cardinal question for any Russian who wants to conduct “social diplomacy” in the US, or even has a substantial presence in both countries.

    Any Russians with a track record of interactions with American politicians or activists should steer clear of US soil. I mean anyone to the right of Pussy Riot, of course.

    Even Putin and Lavrov should limit their contacts with Trump and Pompeo. Not because they’d end up in Gitmo (but who knows, now days?) but rather because each meeting drives permanent Washington into a frenzy of anti-Russian words and actions. If Putin and Lavrov did visit Washington this autumn, some grandstanding politician would likely try to serve papers on them, carry out a citizen’s arrest or otherwise physically assault them.

  38. carry out a citizen’s arrest or otherwise physically assault them

    I actually hope this happens, it will finally show those Russians that think that diplomacy can still work are being delusional. It will show how completely nuts most of the US government and the population is.

  39. reiner Tor says

    OT

    Russia substantially cut its US Treasury holdings. Instead they seem to only be buying physical gold. I’m not sure how much of it is held in New York, but I’d guess most is in Moscow or at least inside Russia. From what I read, apparently they’re basically buying up Russian gold production.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-23/russia-dumped-its-treasuries-heres-what-it-was-buying

  40. Yes, it was mentioned in the last Open Thread: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-51/

    The last time such a drawback happened (but which only lasted three weeks) was in the immediate aftermath of Crimea: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-20/putin-hedges-trump-bet-by-dumping-treasuries-to-safeguard-assets

    The last time Russia pulled such a large sum out of the U.S. was just after the annexation of Crimea in 2014, when the central bank withdrew about $115 billion from the New York Fed, Reuters reported last year, citing two former Fed officials. Most of that money was returned a few weeks later, after it became clear that the scope of initial U.S. sanctions would be narrower than the Kremlin expected, according to the news service.

  41. LondonBob says

    I have found Russian women in London to be noticeably less attractive than those in Moscow.

  42. The world is not going back to using gold as currency – not in peace time. Russia exchanging US Treasuries into gold is a sign that a chance of war – per their internal assessment – has increased.

    US always has the ability to confiscate any foreign holdings denominated in dollars. But only once, after that only vassals and fools would keep their assets in dollars. Washington has caged the golden goose.

  43. reiner Tor says

    Or just an extreme cold war scenario with extreme sanctions, kind of like what Iran had to endure. They can always convert gold to money, but money (Treasuries) can be frozen, so better to keep the bulk of the money in gold. The only problem is that they need a lot of time to buy up enough gold, because we’re talking about huge quantities, which would disrupt world gold markets, and it’d be too expensive. So they’ve been doing it for years.

  44. This has happened before, with no evident negative effects, to “rogue states.”

    However, it will probably be different if the US does this to a Great Power, such as Russia.

  45. Anonymous says

    Go to the black board and write a hundred times: “Free” means whatever the globalists want it to mean at the moment and nothing more.

  46. … it will probably be different if the US does this to a Great Power, such as Russia

    Probably. The other major players, China, Middle East, Latin America, India, even EU, would get cold feet. That might ironically hurt their currencies more than the dollar – rush to safety could overwhelm everything else.

    If Russia is completely cut off from the dollar economy and its Western assets are basically expropriated, Russia would still go on. And it would not lead to an internal rebellion, not for a few decades. That why West has only pushed so far.

    The problem is that there is no way to climb down from the sanctions regime. Brussels and Washington will not wake up one day and announce that they are done with the sanctions. And the logic of sanctions is that you have to escalate them over time. It is a dead end, and those usually end up with a sudden escalation, even a catastrophe. If you look historically at ‘sanctions regimes‘, from Napoleon to US and Japan before WWII, they led to an eventual non-economic confrontation. Russia is not Cuba, or even Iran, it is too important. Obama and Co. started something that they had no balls to finish, nor any idea what it would lead to. This is typical of progressives, they lack the ability to see things as they are and in reality are too lazy to think stuff through.

  47. reiner Tor says

    OT

    Russians are not very smart propagandists… except when they want to elect their agent POTUS or tilt the British electorate in favor of Brexit. Then they suddenly turn into geniuses. But I guess ordinary day-to-day propaganda is just not their thing.

    https://defence-blog.com/navy/russia-released-fake-footage-evidence-new-cruise-missile-test.html

  48. …Russians are not very smart propagandists

    The truth is that Russia is not very good at many things. They don’t have it in them to be single-minded and disciplined, they also completely lack process skills and are unable to systematically engage in make-work activities. That is partially compensated by the good luck they have had living in a huge, rich piece of real estate, conveniently located both close enough, and yet sufficiently remote. This geographic conundrum has been driving Westerners crazy for almost 500 years. But fighting geographic luck is pointless, so they get angry and frustrated.

    Putting the T-man in the White House was another lucky break for Russia. And it seems the current attempts at removing him could be even a luckier one. They are on a roll and that might lead to hubris. But given Russian inability to do a coherent ‘propaganda’, it might be less painful than the endless absurd sh..t that the desperate Western media managers are feeding us. At this point it serves no other purpose than to dumb down their own populations. That can never be good for anyone.

  49. YetAnotherAnon says

    Related, sort of. Some terrible wind-up merchants in the comments. “Gorgeous. RIP babe” needs a few more upvotes.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5986283/Femen-founder-Oksana-Shachko-dead-alongside-suicide-note-Paris.html

    One of the founders of the Femen feminist protest movement has been found dead in her Paris apartment, the group said on Monday.

    Activists from Femen, known for its bold topless protests, said 31-year-old Ukrainian Oksana Shachko had been found on Monday with a suicide note next to her body.

    ‘It is with great regret and deep pain that I must confirm the death of Oksana,’ said Inna Shevchenko, one of Femen’s leaders, who also lives in the French capital.

  50. Aging has always going to be a problem for the tit-flashers. It is hard to stick them in a sinecure at a university with those videos around, too much giggle potential.

    I wonder where the Pussy Riot beauties are going to end up. Taking Hollywood by a storm? Or maybe a lonely bench in a provincial city in England? It is tough when one turns into an object in other people’s games…

  51. OT :

    In other news….

    Prominent Northern California White Nationalist Kevin Crawford Kraft was arrested yet again in July 2018. His cadence of arrests are like clockwork :

    http://mugshotssantacruz.com/search/?last_name=KRAFT&first_name=KEVIN&#prof

    His crimes tend to be black-like, such as ‘having sex in public’, ‘assault with a deadly weapon’ and ‘armed robbery’. Hence, he is indeed a Wigger.

    If one wanted to associate a face with contemporary White Trashionalism, this is the face.

  52. I have found Russian women in London to be noticeably less attractive than those in Moscow.

    Do you mean the “best” don’t emigrate? Oh! Shit!

  53. Russians are not very smart propagandists…

    Well of course not, they purged the experts.

  54. It is hard to stick them in a sinecure at a university with those videos around, too much giggle potential.

    We’re well past that point.

    https://twitter.com/vnbateman/status/1006631063693807616

  55. I am sure that by now someone in the ROG conspiracy theory world has already blamed Putin for killing her and made it look like a suicide.

  56. …We’re well past that point

    Holy sweet Jesus, what the… yeah, giggles won’t do, they are done.

  57. Thorfinnsson says

    I’m waiting for the “pro-choice” crowd to embrace the right to consume GMO crops and to take synthetic opiods.

    My body, my choice.

  58. Gerard1234 says

    hahaha! [[[ Antatoly Karlin]]] at his best.

    This is a straight out perversion of justice. (In contrast, with, say, the Magnitsky Affair – which has received orders of magnitude more attention from everyone – where frankly it seems you’re just defending one set of thieves from another, whichever side you’re on

    The Magnitsky crime involved the US placing sanctions on Russian officials ,based on the word of one (obviously) thoroughly corrupt and discredited man, Bill Browder….with no trial or any collection of evidence taking place by the Americans…and was pushed through by a Congress who have, literally, nobody who knows anything about Russia whatosoever

    It was also thoroughly unnecessary legislation, because decades before existing legislation had been passed covering the same type of thing

    One of the best ways for the Magnitsky affair to be finalised would be for somebody implicated to try and sue Bill Browder in an American court. A pity there was no Russian implicated, or Russian company implicated , now living or based in America ,who would be willing to sue Browder.

    …..oh wait they have….several times

    Runnning like a girl from a Subpoena,

    The American pigs placed sanctions and generated bad PR for Russia based on the lies of one criminal piece of excrement, Bill Browder. On top of that Magnitsky was a crook, and Russia had no other option then to try and put some order to the issue by putting Magnitsky on trial posthumously . Browder has got countries to ban critical documentaries about him, the corrupt western media doesn’t even try to ask him about why he doesn’t want his claims to be corroborated in any western court or about his past

    Typical of [[[Anatoly Karlin]]] not to see it

  59. Thorfinnsson says

    In fairness to Bill Browder (not someone I’m particularly fond of), running from papers being served to you is a pretty sound legal defense strategy as long as you can keep it up. John D. Rockefeller successfully used this strategy for years.

  60. Funny to note that her twitter bio says she writes for CapX, which is the blog of the right-wing (favourite of Thatcher) thinktank the CPS, and so is presumably a libertarian.

  61. reiner Tor says

    Quite a freak show she turned herself into. I guess she has no kids so at least they can’t be embarrassed later by finding this picture.

  62. Gerard1234 says

    That’s fine….but then large-scale black PR campaigns against Russia should be discredited if this is the defense strategy….not to mention having legislation passed by the American system without there being any actual trial or investigation on American soil

    He can probably try to argue “security reasons” because of the “sinister” Russian state on everything from the running away from the Subpoena, to the no fixed address, to the dangers of a public court session in a set place and time….but this can also be viewed as a joke because he has appeared in front of Congress and is on television all the time ( this subpoena tried to be issued just after he had finished recording some interview for television)

  63. I wonder what the reaction would be if some 70 year old male professor tried to pull off something like that and insist on engaging young co-eds in conversation by the punch bowl at a Cambridge dinner…accusations of being creepy or lauded for being revolutionary?
    #MyOldHairyScrotumMyChoice ?

    And I agree; she will likely not have any kids to embarrass in the long run.

    Peace.

  64. Hyperborean says

    Although, having children doesn’t guarantee that people will behave in a dignified manner (the son swearing at her is actually not the embarrassing part).

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4350174/Adele-confesses-son-Angelo-4-loves-swearing.html

  65. Yevardian says

    Even such a milquetoast beta orbiter as Turgenev predicted the trainwreck the ‘liberation’ of women would result in with his biting caricature of Kukshina in Fathers and Sons. I would say encouraging this idiocy would just clean out the gene pool, but unfortunately this sort of mental illness disproportionately effects the intelligent.

  66. Well, there you go…

    I had no idea that TFR was below replacement for this long – wow!

    Peace.

  67. Foreign born mothers in 28% of live births, and still rising does not sound like a recipe for peace.

  68. noun [ U ] also buyers’ remorse UK ​ /ˌbaɪ.əz rɪˈmɔːs/ /ˌbaɪ.ɚz rɪˈmɔːrs/

    a feeling of regret (= a wish that you had not done something) after making a choice or decision

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/buyer-s-remorse

    Peace.

  69. Even such a milquetoast beta orbiter as Turgenev

    I am crying.

  70. Idiotic (or incredibly mendacious) DC uniparty establishment compares Ms. Butina to Alger Hiss:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/21/republicans-mariia-butina-alger-hiss-problem-219028

  71. Daniel Chieh says

    Women were more worth orbiting then.

  72. Hippopotamusdrome says

    Buttinsky would have been too obvious.

  73. Cuban spy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Montes
    Serving 25 years

    “A Federal Prison Bureau decree (due to her espionage conviction) restricting contact to only her closest relatives. (perhaps only two or three in total have visited her)
    A prohibition on inquiries about her health or the reasons for her detention in a center for the mentally ill, when she suffers no such condition.
    A prohibition on the receipt of packages.
    Letters sent to her are returned by registered post to the sender.
    She is not allowed associate with other inmates.
    She is not allowed make or receive phone calls.
    She is not allowed read newspapers, magazines or watch TV.
    She is not allowed visits from friends.
    She maintains no relationships with anyone in the prison and is always alone in her cell, where she has been confined for nearly 15 years

  74. 41 LondonBob > I have found Russian women in London to be noticeably less attractive than those in Moscow

    we didn’t force you to live in a shithole

    at Hadassah Hospital, they’re currently working on a cream that can be applied to the face and insulate it (somewhat) from thrown acid.