One might have thought that football is one of those few places where politics can be left at the door. At least that’s the position of UEFA who constantly talk of the game’s potential to build bridges, etc.
However, consider the following litany of attacks. First, it is looking into punishing Russia for displaying the banner below. Because it is “far right extremist sloganeering” according to some anti-racism organization that has nothing better to do. What exactly is racist about it? How exactly was it brought into the stadium if the Poles themselves didn’t want it?
Then there were the clashes with the Poles when Russian fans marched in Warsaw to mark Russia Day. According to numerous papers like the WSJ and Daily Mail both sides were at least equally at fault, but more likely the Russkies.
Consider the image right. The WSJ writes: “Ahead of the countries’ Euro 2012 Group A match up, a Russian soccer fan, left, fights Tuesday with a Polish supporter in Warsaw.” However, as is obvious to anyone who is not a cretin, the man on the left throwing a punch is a Poland supporter. Though it is not surprising as the WSJ excels in lying on Russia as on other subjects and plagiarizing too.
UEFA also has its knickers in a twist over some Russian “imperial” flags (the white, gold and black) displayed in the arena. Apparently they are “racist”. This is Western hypocrisy at its unsurpassed finest because Westerners do not have any trouble with these flags whatsoever when they’re seen in anti-Putin demonstrations.
As can be observer in the video below, it was mostly the Polish nationalists who were attacking Russia supporters. Scroll to 0:41 to see some shaved leather-clad thug run up and punch a Russia supporter in the neck from behind in a most low-life manner.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wsr1NSHXAc]
WHY IS UEFA LETTING OFF POLAND SCOTCH-FREE?
This might also seem funny and petty until one realizes that in addition to a $150,000 fine (which is peanuts to the Russian FA) they are also threatening it with a 6 point handicap in the qualifiers to the next Euro Cup. This is a huge disadvantage and if followed through Russia might as well boycott those games and try to persuade other FA’s to do likewise to bring down those UEFA blowhards a notch.
Edit: The liberal Leonid Vershidsky, of the aptly named Snob magazine, blames Polish attacks on Russians on Putin and the Soviet Union. Celebrates the fact that Russia didn’t win but drew with Poland. No doubt one of those folks who then wonders why people don’t like or vote for his fellow liberals.
Related: Volokh reviews gun/weapons laws of the Russian Federation:
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/12/weapons-laws-of-the-russian-federation/
Are Kalashnikovs legal with registration and a training course?
And I must say in fairness to the Polish cops they did arrest quite a few of their own hooligans.
1) The question is not “does UEFA hate Russia” but “does anybody like Russia?”. No, nobody does.
2) You need to check your facts. UEFA is yet to punish Russia because of that massive used toilet paper which Russians unfurled during the game against Poland. Russia was punished because of incidents in the earlier game against the Czech team.
During that game Russians were for examlpe monkey chanting at dark skinned Czech player.
3) You know very well yourself that the white, urine and black flag is used by neo-nazis in Russia.
What’s the one thing a Pole hates more than a commie? A Russian patriot.
Ok. But when will you correct your posting to reflect the reality?
Believe it or not, I was actually going to cheer for Poland in its next decisive game vs. the Czechs as during the Holland – Germany game I sat next to a very nice Polish gentleman at the bar.
However, thanks to you showing your face again, I’m considering switching my allegiance back to the Czechs.
Now I could say that I don’t care who you cheer for as long as you sit in at the bar. But I won’t say that. It would be too…blunt?
I’m rooting for Russia. When Russian fans are generating news like this how could I not? I hope they stay in Poland and in Ukraine as long as possible.
Are you sure? Because British tabloid press is full of “racist Poland” stuff (which already started before the tournament). Plus Spiegel got interview with Polish hooligans who attacked the Russians because “Hitler hated Russians.” Epic fail.
Of course you could say that, I can also say (completely honestly) that your opinion on the matter is of the utmost irrelevance to myself.
But I’m slightly curious. Why do you want me at the bar? Are you one of those people with no life who hate others who go to bars to do manly stuff like watching football and having a good time?
You are at your most hilarious when you come back from the bar, that’s why.
I feel sorry for you Poles, football is not your forte, neither is anything else. That’s why Nazis conquered you in 3 weeks, with the area of Poland being roughly equal to today’s Germany. You did help Nazis to exterminate the Jews, so that urine flag you are complaining about should be yours too.
Comparing Germany, Poland and Russia today it is difficult to believe that it is Russia who is supposed to be one of victors of the most devastating war in all of human history. What do they have left? A draw in a football match against Poland.
idiot
In August 1939, military staff talks were going in Moscow between Soviet defense Minister Marshal Voroshilov, General Staff Chief General Shaposhnikov, and military delegations from Great Britain and France. They were trying to put military meat on the diplomatic bones of the British-French-Soviet alliance Foreign Minister Litvinov had proposed to the British and French governments the previous April. They sent a young French Army captain, Andre Beaufre (who later made General ‘d Armee and Chief of the SHAPE General Staff) to Warsaw to see if the Polish government would accept Soviet aid in the event of a German attack on Poland, in the context of a British-French-Soviet alliance. The reply of the Polish Army Commander in Chief Marshal Edward Rydz-Śmigły: “With the Germans we lose our independence. With the Russians we lose our soul.” Some people would rather die, literally die, than deign to accept help from those they despise.
Then they spend the next seven decades bleating over the fact that the Soviets didn’t let Nazi Germany conquer *all* of Poland, as they could clearly do.
That may be true but it doesn’t mitigate the atrocity of Katyn.
Stalin’s Soviet Union was an evil empire. Think of the Gulag, the Terror and the Famines. Given Polish history it was understandable that Poles regarded the USSR as the greater evil. In the Thirties many people believed in good faith that Stalin was easily the greater monster than Hitler. The Holocaust didn’t get underway until the outbreak of war whereas Stalin’s atrocities happened in peacetime.
I believe Yeltsin acknowledged Soviet responsiblity for Katyn and gave documentary proof to the Polish government. I’m no fan of Yeltsin to put it mildy but he deserves credit for that.
@Robert
You do know that most of the info regarding the Stalinist era is propaganda with hyper-inflated death tools most of which were caused by famines and disease that existed prior to 1917 and exacerbated after the Bolshevik coup and the general anarchism that created coupled with the fact that those who made up the Soviet ranks were also linked to criminal gangs that operated out of the former Pale of Settlement and was the major organised crime location before WW1 and prior to WW2 regions of Poland?
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/04/11/Jewish_mafia_Poland.html
The biggest crime boss and organisation crime network in America in the 20th century was run by Meyer Lansky a Jewish refugee from Grodno, Russia (now in Poland).
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/lansky.html
The leading historian on the Stalinist era Robert Conquest worked for the British Foreign Offices anti-Communist propaganda unit after WW2 and the Stalinist research in Russia is conducted by National Endowment for Democracy funded Memorial with an obvious political agenda.
Even the famous Katyn massacre there is controversy over the smoking gun documents.
Are you Polish? This would explain your obvious obsession with used toilet paper and urine, That’s what US makes of your country as a reward for being such a lapdog.
No, I’m not Polish, but I know botox injecting vertically challenged shirtless gay icon who uses profanities and references to the sexual life even more often than I.
Now I can’t speak for Poland, but I would much rather be a lap dog than a feral.
You sound Polish though, may be its just your IQ. Concerning him being gay, it’s something we did not know about but I trust you, you must be speaking from personal experience. Why don’t you like Russia? Did the Russians beat you up at a gay parade in St. Petersburg?
Well in the past you have as good as confirmed that you are Polish, and now you say you are not.
What are you then? Next best guess – Visegrad or Baltic emigre to an Anglo-Saxon country. Hot or cold?
How did I do that?
It is very telling how one’s nationality is a very important thing for a russophile, So let me just say that “my mother is a Upper Voltan while my father is a lawyer”.
I’m confused. Are you talking about Elton John?
I did not know Elton John was Polish. He is talking about the late Polish Pope John Paul II.
“botox injecting vertically challenged shirtless gay icon who uses profanities and references to the sexual life even more often than I.”
Definitely, John Paul II
Agree to disagree, I’d rather be feral than a lap dog any day…. 😉
This is the result of massive anti-russian campaign in polish medias. “50 000 russian spies”, “they came to occupy us”, “Kachinsky in great danger, KGBists disguised as fans will try to kill him” etc.
Here’s a “inosmi” like forum, where you can read all those paranoidal articles (in russian).
http://ursa-tm.ru/forum/index.php?/forum/11-%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2/
It hasn’t just started. During Yeltsin’s time the President of Russian Football Union was Koloskov and he, besides being totally useless and even harmul to Russian football, also was pandering to Western anti Russian eelings in exchange ffor small perks. Switzerland’s Blatter is an old senile Russia hater.
I doubt Blatter is an all-out Russian hater if he and FIFA gave Russia its 2018 tourney. In fact, net posters in England see him as anti-English.
Football is obviously not the best way to improve international relations. I propose a ballet competition. (I think Russia would win — ha ha!)
Of course Russia would win. Ballet is after all for manly men.
That’s true.
It’s rather clear that any significant international organization, including the UN, has a pro-west and anti-Russian bias. The west has money and over time it can fill the ranks of these organizations with loyalists. UEFA is no different. One can’t attribute to randomness systematic occurrences. Since when was the Russian royalist flag a racist one? The Russian Empire of the Czars was never an apartheid regime.
Perhaps Russia should take UEFA to court in the UK and elsewhere and sue them for libel.
C’mon Karlin these “Russian patriots” are the same facist assholes creeps you see on Stormfront who got in a fight with Polish nationalist assholes with the whole nationalist football fighting thing based on British facist assholes who created the whole thing in the 80’s.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NgXrMnZHoL4/TPko47ogS9I/AAAAAAAABHo/OeP9sxe8d5o/s640/Tintin+England.jpg
Frankly they make Russians look like a sub-human monkey race.
This is true.
Yeah. I just wonder why the Kremlin premier danseur noble is still hiding his thights and hasn’t yet taken up ballet to prove us he is truly a manly man? It is weird because he has already told us he likes ABBA.
Now exactly what are you implying, Sir or Madam? (Huffily…) That anybody who loves ABBA is a mindless queer? How can anybody listen to “Super Trouper” and not fall in love? Only a person without a SOUL, that’s who!
[Pounding baseline SU-PA-PA TROU-PA-PA….Yowza!]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BshxCIjNEjY
I have absolutely nothing against ballet, ABBA, or people who like them. More over, I have nothing against queers per se whether they are mindless of not. In fact, it has been scientifically proven that homophobia is closely associated with homosexual arousal. More homophobic the person (or nation) is, more concealed homosexual feelings she holds.
Dear K.F.:
Nice to hear you are a paragon of Enlightened Thought. All this time I had you pegged as a crude homophobe, what with your slurs and inisnuations against Russian ballet dancers. Yeah, most of them are straight, but some are gay. Either way, they all started training like at the age of 3 and practice 7 hours a day to perfect their beautiful leaps and turns. Did YOU ever work that hard at anything, besides being annoying? No, I didn’t think so.
Okay, I guess it was just a big misunderstanding….
SU-PA-PA TROU-PA-PA….
“I feel sorry for you Poles, football is not your forte, neither is anything else. That’s why Nazis conquered you in 3 weeks, with the area of Poland being roughly equal to today’s Germany. You did help Nazis to exterminate the Jews, so that urine flag you are complaining about should be yours too.”
Unlike Latvians or Lithiuanians which also wiped out 90% of their Jewish populations, most Poles did not collaborate, hence Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski and others’ outrage about ‘Polish death camps’ (in fact lotsa Russophobes on Twitter showed what they think of their brave Polish friends by insulting them further saying they were being way too touchy, see @PeterSavodnik). The Home Army stood aloof in 43′ while the Warsaw Ghetto got liquidated, but the fact is they didn’t have as many weapons or as much hope of expelling the Germans as they did a year later. And Zhukov’s armies were very badly beat up and at the end of their logistical tether by the time they got to Warsaw, having annihilated an entire German Army Group Center in the most crushing single battle defeat the Germans have suffered of all time. That doesn’t mean the Red Army weren’t capable of helping the Home Army (and several thousand Polish Red Army soldiers did help), but there’s an honest question of whether the Polish high command in London wanted the Soviets’ help even at that desperate stage.
The rest of the above is mere trolling, ala @ReginaldQuill saying anti-Semitic Ron Paul supporters (who happen to worship Nazi refugee Ludwig Von Mises) secretly long to ally with Russia to restore the Confederacy or some other horsecrap.
Poland had agreements with Germany before the outbreak of fighting between the two countries prior to WW2 and it is said that there was an organisation called Prometey supported by Poland intelligence prior to WW2 and based in Paris to support separatist movements in Ukraine, Volga region and the Caucasus although the latter has not been verified as true.
Not as if Russians give a damn to get of their lazy asses and research it like everything else and write and research anything of any worth or importance.
As far as Obama saying “Polish death camps” that came up before under Bush when he used the same term when he obviously meant death camps in Poland.
As for Von Mises not every Libertarian actually supports him or is a follower of Ayn Rand and gold as a reserve currency as Bill Stills the Libertarian candidate for president has pointed out Von Mises was financed by the Rockefellers while in the US.
“Many readers may be surprised to learn the extent to which the Graduate Institute and then Mises himself in the years immediately after he came to United States were kept afloat financially through generous grants from the Rockefeller Foundation. In fact, for the first years of Mises’s life in the United States, before his appointment as a visiting professor in the Graduate School of Business Administration at New York University (NYU) in 1945, he was almost totally dependent on annual research grants from the Rockefeller Foundation.
Even after he finally landed the position at NYU, where he remained only a visiting professor until his retirement in 1969, his salary was paid for not by NYU, but from funds contributed by generous private supporters.”
http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=692
Mises wife, Margit Herzfeld, wrote in her biography of Ludwig Von Mises:
“that he participated in Count Coudenhove-Kalergi’s Pan Europe movement in 1943. He had been brought to the U.S. in 1940 by a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation of $2500 a year to work at the Natl. Bureau of Economic Research, which grant was renewed in 1943.”
http://s6.zetaboards.com/Bill_Still_Reforum/topic/1177022/1/
It’s funny in regards to historic Russian-US relations is that Russia has been a good ally and helped the US while with the exception of WW2 the US allied with British interests has acted against Russia.
Russia helped finance London after the Civil war that even included special trade agreements between the two countries after Lincolns death and the US supported a Marxist economic, political and terrorist insurgency leading up to and including the Bolshevik revolution that most of the first Government senior heads were Marxist Jewish exiles living in New York most famous being Trotsky.
Even in the post Soviet period when the US was rearranging the post Soviet sphere against Russia and supporting Chechen and Islamic terrorism in Central Asia and the Balkans Russian intelligence was providing the US with intelligence from the Russian created and financed Northern Alliance about terrorist attacks against US and US interests including giving them the NA and all the intelligence they collected on terrorist training camps in Afghanistan they were rewarding by re-establishing the Afghan heroin trade and the networks that fuel the insurgents in Chechnya and Central Asia.
Those who are directing the Afghan heroin trade reside inside the US.
Correction “Russia helped finance London” should have been “Russia helped finance the US”.
Bolsheviks were not terrorists. Lenin’s brother was a terrorist (he tried to assassinate the Tsar), but Lenin rejected terrorist tactics as pointless.
Bolsheviks certainly were terrorists that emerged under various Marxist terrorist groups and Lenin advocated mass terror based on social class.
http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/terror/terror.html
All depends on your definition of terrorist. Everybody has their own definition, that suits their own politics. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom-fighter. William Wallace: Terrorist or Freedom-fighter? Spartacus: Terrorist or Freedom-fighter? Hezbollah: Terrorist or Freedom-fighter?
All depends on whose side you are on.
In general: goal-oriented terrorists might try to assassinate individual figures, like the Tsar or Archduke Ferdinand. More ambitious ones might go after the police or army. As a general rule they try to avoid civilian casualties (but not always). Examples: Irish IRA, Jewish Irgun.
More nihilistic terrorists (like Al Qaeda) deliberately go for massive civilian casualties, in order to de-stabilize society. For example, they might plant a bomb in the middle of a crowded subway.
Bolsheviks, like French Jacobins, were class warriors. Revolutions of the underclass (other example: Spartacus slave uprising against Roman ruling class) tend to be bloody and violent. You can call this terrorism if you want to. Like I said, it all depends whose side you are on. People can be on a side in a conflict and disapprove of some of the tactics used by that side, but still basically be on that side.
In summary, the word “terrorist” virtually has no meaning any more, and I propose it not even be used in political debates any more.
You know what terrorists are on the Empires payroll other than being directly employed by government funded organisations like National Endowment for Democracy because the media always labels them as rebels.
As a standard western backed terrorists most noticeably the KLA scum that even the US state department officially listed as terrorists in the 90’s deliberately attack civilians and stage massacres for western intervention.
Up to 9/11 the US was supporting Bin Ladin and Al Qaeda groups setting up terrorist cells and networks in the North Caucasus between 96-2001 and the Balkans that were involved in terrorist attacks against civilians.
During the Balkans wars Bin Ladin linked NGO’s freely operated in Britain and Austria where the Bosnian regimes right hand man Hasan Cengic working through TWRA NGO based in Vienna helped finance the 9/11 attacks.
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/ftv-da050908.htm
So called Al Qaeda linked terrorists are on the US government payroll employed by private security firms like MPRI that even held a terrorist camp in Shanksville, Pennsylvania were the 4th plane crashed.
“On August 2001, Safet Catovic organized the summer Jihad Camp at the place where one of the planes which targeted the twin towers was downed, together with imam Sirai Fahai, suspect in the first attack on New York Trade Center, in 1993″, Trifunovic explained.”
http://de-construct.net/?p=2751url
@johnUK:
I am finding that I agree with you about all of that.
We only diverge when it comes to Bolsheviks. I’m a Marxist, so I look at all of that from a class POV. Al Qaeda = American imperialist interests = Wall Street = finance capitalism.
Bolsheviks NOT = capitalism.
Terrorism = tactic. Not ideology or Weltanschauung.]
A tactic is like a rifle, it can be used by either side.
Terrorism against civilians is a barbaric tactic, like land mines. It should never be used, even by the good guys.
In summary, reality is complicated.
On the question of Libertarians here’s the White Russian Vineyard of the Saker’s take on them with which I’m in full agreement
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4046811478707691837&postID=8251467799610016772
Well, just like the Marxists had many schools of thought, so do the Libertarians. But I think that it would be fair to say that they all oppose what they call “statism” and that they all believe that the Free Market does a better job maximizing welfare than a regulated one. Just like Marxism can be a very effective and accurate critique of capitalism, so can Libertarianism (?) be a very good tool to show, for example, that the current US economy is far more state controlled then private. So just like the Marxists, Libertarians do make a lot of good points. The problem with these two schools of thought is double:
a) they are both based on fundamentally utopian premises
b) they are both materialists in the worst sense of the word: no right or wrong, no ethics.
My own politics are far, FAR more in line with socialist/welfare ideas, at least in terms of economics, and I also happen to agree with Gilad Atzmon when he says that the way out of the current global disaster is to *return to ethics*. Pure materialism, of whatever kind, has been an unmitigated disaster for all of mankind and ethics need to be re-injected into the political discourse.
If you are interested in my views on the issue of the role of the state, you can check out this post: http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2012/02/distributism-first-impressions.htmlch I’m in full agreement
I didn’t know that he was a white Russian although I knew he was an Orthodox Christian and had some job as a security consultant or something that he is pretty vague on.
Bizarrely he is pro-Islam supporting Hezbollah and Hamas that I certainly don’t support despite being critical of Israel and the international Jewish community on other matters than the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Lol! Actually the commentator jack that he was responding to was me that actually I thought I made pretty good points.
As a whole Libertarian is the best political system out there today that we don’t have any mainstream or viable political parties here in Britain that even come close to resembling although I don’t agree on eliminating a strong government as STRATFORS George Freidman noted that the major industrial innovations have come from major government defence initiatives (internet, air travel, rail and highway system) that became adaptive for civilian infrastructure projects.
I have my own concept of a governing system that would make Russia starting with Siberia a virtual paradise on Earth with a new system of economic development and self government that would make individuals as free as in the United States including the right to bear arms.
Damn that link to Saker’s article on Distributism is broken. Here it is again. It’s well worth a read.
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2012/02/distributism-first-impressions.html
“UEFA also has its knickers in a twist over some Russian “imperial” flags (the white, gold and black) displayed in the arena. Apparently they are “racist”. This is Western hypocrisy at its unsurpassed finest because Westerners do not have any trouble with these flags whatsoever when they’re seen in anti-Putin demonstrations.”
You mean this? 😉
http://www.austereinsomniac.info/blog/2012/6/13/boy-or-girl.html
K.F is a Finn and his name is xxxxxx xxxxxxx.
AK: Edited.
Please delete that as it is not appropriate to post names here.
AK: Thanks. I don’t care for the name, but I was intensely curious about the nationality.
I tell you this:
Suomen lain mukaan spekuloida jonkun identiteetti on rikos ja kantaa raskaan rangaistuksen sekä sinulle blogin omistaja.
Now I think you should hope I’m not a Finn 🙂
Too bad I don’t live in totalitarian Finland then.
But regardless, edited. I don’t support “outing” people unless they patently deserve it like La Russophobe.
Now I’m offended. I don’t deserve to be outed?
Please, uncensor that message immediately!
Finland has fought on the side of Nazis and has no moral ground against anybody. Also, whatever your laws are, they do not affect Russia which would not extradite Russian citizens to Finland. Finland has lost a big chunk of its territory to the USSR after the WWII as a punishment for supporting the Nazis. What are you going to do about it?
This territory originally belonged to the Rus anyway. Even the wiki ethnic map for the 1050 AD period shows this. I think Yuryev (now called Tartu) should have been reclaimed as well. Remember this is not just some war over economics interests, it was a war of genocide on Russia and the people of the USSR. So punishment should have been meted out to all of Hitler’s allies. Instead, as with Estonia, they got a pass and now whine about how bad they had it being part of the USSR or under its influence. The Baltics were some of the best places to live in the USSR. So they are full of sh*t. Same goes for the Warsaw Pact states. The brutality of Ceausescu in Romania was a purely internal matter and the west feted this loon, who started modeling Romania after North Korea in the early 1970s, as a leader resisting Soviet control. In spite of the hysterics about the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia it was never converted into a Stalinist hell hole. I believed the stories about 60,000 people dying in the Hungarian uprising of 1956 until I read in the last few years from a Hungarian paper that it was 2,400. Considering that Nazi ally elements were still around after WWII and the fact that the west recruited these maggots it is not surprising that this “uprising” would occur. The USSR wasn’t rounding up Hitler’s allies after the war to exterminate them. They got welfare states in the name of “brotherhood of the peoples”.
I know K.F is a Finn and he posts anti-Russian stuff in Uusisuomi website.
The Finns do have a huge chip on there shoulder since the Winter war. At least in the case of the Baltic states I can understand why they don’t like Russia given the history but Finns are far worse.
I respect Finns because they are good skiiers and bi-athletes.
Well, it’s all the same theme with the Baltics and Finland. They were in der Furher’s camp and their whining about being victims is obscene nonsense. Back in 1939 control of territory was vital unlike today with remote controlled missile attacks. So the USSR’s grabbing of buffer space between itself and the Reich was militarily correct. If Finland and the Baltic states were truly neutral they would have something to complain about but they were allies of the Nazis. The genocidal war of the Reich was coming and everyone knew it. The adjective genocidal is not some hyperbole it was the explicit policy of the racist Nazi regime.
It’s not quite that simple. Finland (if I recall correctly) was only in “der Fuehrer’s camp” in 1941-44, after which they were sensible enough to make a separate peace with the USSR and expel the Germans from Finland (the Lapland War). Stalin’s view of the Finns, as expressed at Tehran, was that “a people that had fought so valiantly for its independence deserves consideration [героически сражался за свою независимость и потому заслуживает особого подхода].”
As for the Baltics, the USSR already acquired military bases there in 1939. The takeover and Stalinization of these countries in 1940-41 probably created more Nazi collaborators than would have been the case otherwise. So such “whining,” as you call it, does have a basis in fact.
Mannerheim is wearing an interesting uniform in this photograph:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Carl_Gustaf_Emil_Mannerheim.jpg/220px-Carl_Gustaf_Emil_Mannerheim.jpg
The Nazis did not have to install the regime in Finland it openly allied with them. That says it all. As for Baltic bases that is not enough if the local regimes are going to flip on you the moment that the Wehrmacht shows up (and Finland is a good prototype).
Anyway, the US installed regimes in various countries for petty economics reasons but the USSR was trying to save itself from annihilation.
All the former states of the Russian empire were German protectorates at the time that Germany aided during the civil war who at that time depending on the country had an ethnic German population even Poland and Germany were allied until war broke out between the 2 countries.
Off topic but interesting.
Is the US promoting Balochistan independence from the Pakistani regime?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciyk54ahTJQ
Didn’t the Soviet invade Finland and take its territory before the Finns allied with the Germans? Don’t you think that, in light of that, Finland was justified in allying itself with the Germans for the sake of regaining the territory that was unjustly taken from it? I understand the Soviet motive of adding a buffer zone; this doesn’t make such actions “okay” for the victim, however.
An interesting topic (which highlights Finland’s awkward position in WW2) is that of Finland’s Jewish soldiers. Some were given German medals, but all refused them. Two articles on the subject, one from the Jewish Quarterly, one from Haaretz:
http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/article8d14.html?articleid=194
http://www.lausti.com/articles/Mideast/reime-haaretz.html
There were up to 150,000 jews or half jews that served in Hitlers army during WW2.
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html
Anatoly,
http://twitter.com/edwardedark/status/213682276603666432
@ReginaldQuill is starting to veer into the same territory as La Russophobe. He re-tweeted a flagrantly Islamist call for j-had against Russians in Syria, despite there being no evidence of a large scale Russian deployment to Syria, only a few dozen or hundred Spetsnaz to protect citizens and the Russian Embassy in Damascus. And (not to quote brother Alex Jones here, but seriously) these people tell me I should give up my rights and get groped by the TSA because Islamists are hiding under ever bed to get me. Funny, I see lots of hardcore neocons telling us we should back them or at least turn a blind eye to them. At least the honest ones like Spengler say they want both sides — Iranian allied-Allawite and Saudi-proxy Sunnis — to lose. Bolton meanwhile engages in a fantasy of trying to find model democrats among the Syrian opposition outside of London, Paris and D.C. Good luck with that.
Screw Edward Dark. Someone give him a taste of his own medicine!
Calling for violence and the deaths of more people, regardless of nationality, is crossing a line.
And last but not least when it comes to weirdness (then end of thread for me) — what’s the deal with Kim Zigfeld suddenly deciding prominent johhnny come latelies to the Russian opposition like Ksenia Sobchak are themselves corrupt?
I have no axe to grind here against those mentioned above (ok maybe I do slightly against Phobie) but what gives? With this and Alyona Popova who used to proudly post photos on her page posing with spy Anya Chapman a couple of years ago now another opposition heroine to the Daily Beast, it’s no wonder my head hurts. James Jesus Angleton I think referred to this as ‘the hall of mirrors’. But maybe I should just stop giving a crap.
Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/06/search-and-destroy-navalny-sobchak.html#ixzz1xuVhFAyX
Again, I’m happy to posit other theories here than what appears to be going on (i.e. the Russian opposition itself being set up to fail, perhaps even cynically by its foreign backers like George Soros who previously owned the biggest steel mill in the RF before selling it to Lisin). I mean hell, there probably are some in Israel (Liebermann in particular keeps getting slammed as a Kremlin plant online) that are silently thanking their lucky stars Russia is backing Assad…or are they? Russia clearly would be fine with a deal whereby the Assads went off to ‘exile’ in Belarus on the condition they not show their faces too prominently alongside the Rublovka set, but Moscow’s position of opposing direct Western intervention seems to be not a feint.
Plans within plans as Frank Herbert said.
“maybe I should just stop giving a crap”
I stopped giving a crap sometime in 2010. I’ve felt much better since then.
Big soccor crowds seem to have always had a major racist element since the inception of Big Soccer.
The gold standard was set by the brit’s, who gloried in it for years, with a massive network of open, well funded support networks, some with open connections to neo-nazi/anti-immigration groups, & this has obviously had a major influence on the game (ie. Big Soccor)
This looks like a relatively minor incident by comparison, that has been caught up in the massively funded anti-russia lobby’s media circus.
As for UEFA, while it’s not that surprising that a body as openly corrupt as they are come on board part way, in order to see what they can leverage out of it, moving to such an extreme, racist position immediately looks like generating some serious blowback.
UEFA gets a lot impact & weight from places South America, southern Europe, Spain, Africa, etc. – all places where racism places a major part in politics, & the crowds can be quite savage.
The local soccor associations are not going to be happy about this precedent.
Why are UEFA cutting their own throats?
Possible explanations:
1) Incompetence & Greed?
They saw so much money & influence floating around the anti-russia lobby’s they just couldn’t help themselves…
2) Local Polish officials playing a major role?
There still seems to be quite a few racist officials scattered throughout the Polish gov. left over from the Kaczynski gov. & this is the home of the Prometheism.
3) Quatari influence?
UEFA seems to have almost married into the corrupt Quatari aristocracy, which have become savagely anti-russian over Russian opposition to their plans to overthrow the Syrian govt.
UEFA (along with what seems to be most of the major western organisations/corporations) seem to base much of their administrative core out of there these days.
Are the UEFA officials just following orders/suggestions from their major patron?
The fall-out from this should be interesting a little way down the track…
Qatar regime through its the Qatar Charitable Society is one of the top 3 financiers of Islamic terrorism and financed Basayev and Khattabs invasion of Dagestan.
“Founded in 1991, the Qatar Charitable Society (or QCS) is a Qatari-based charity that now has offices throughout the world. Outside of its headquarters in Qatar, QCS currently has offices in Albania, Baku, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Dahgestan, Palestine, Pakistan, and Sudan. According to its website, QCS maintains the following mission:
QCS aims to offer relief and help to orphans, victims of war and disasters
by supporting them financially, socially and culturally up to the age of 18.
QCS aids widows to meet living expenses particularly those who lost all
relatives and friends.
QCS website is managed by Hashem Hussain. Hashem Hussain is a member of the Qatari Governments Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Agriculture and is both the administrative and billing contact for QCS website. In August 2001, Qatari Ambassador Ali bin Muhammad al-Usayri conveyed Qatars commitment to the rehabilitation of Sudan. Al-Usayri announced that the Qatari Government will contribute to Sudan through the efforts of the QCS.
In 1999, the Russian Interior Minister stated that QCS funneled money from
Qatar to radical Chechen al Qaeda groups. In response to this accusation, the Qatari Foreign Minister Hamad bin Jasim bin Jar al-Thani did not deny that Qatar is funding al Qaeda terrorists in Chechnia during a November 20, 1999, al-Jazeera television interview:
Q. How do you answer these accusations?
A. The second issue, that of aid, I cannot says there is no aid
Q. Why this aid?
A. First of all, we as a government cannot control the aid going abroad, some of which may go for humanitarian goals, and some may start as humanitarian but end up in another way. However, there is no monitoring because people are sympathizing with the Chechen people
In this interview with al-Jazeera, the Qatari foreign minister also betrayed his underlying sympathy in favor of Chechen terrorists:
A. We as a government may be able to control our sympathy although in the end we are only human beings and Muslims. What we see in Chechnya is painful for us as Qatari, Arab, or Muslim citizens.
Therefore we cannot restrain the people’s feelings in this regard
The Qatar Charitable Societys relationship with al Qaeda is very intimate. From the sharing of senior officers to the funding of al Qaeda attacks, QCS role has clearly been to serve Osama bin Laden and further his international terrorist aims.
Qatar Charitable Society financially supports al Qaeda. The QCS financial support for al Qaeda was demonstrated during the trial of al Qaeda operatives involved in the 1998 United States Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. In February 2001, the United States Governments lead witness and former al Qaeda member, Jamal Ahmed Mohamed al- Fadl, testified on QCS relationship with al Qaeda. al-Fadl stated that in 1993 he was both a QCS employee and an al Qaeda member. He also stated that QCS leader at that time, Dr.Abdullah Mohamed Yusef, was a member of al Qaeda as well, and a member of the Sudanese political group the National Islamic Front (or NIF) that harbored Osama bin Laden in the early 1990s. When al-Fadl testified on his role with the QCS, he described Dr. Yusefs support of al Qaeda through the QCS:
A. The guy, he runs a group, he is one of our membership, one of the al Qaeda group membership, and also he is Islamic National Front membership, and he was in Afghanistan. So he helped our people for the travel, documents, and also if some money come from the Gulf area to the organization, he gives the group some money from that
money.
Q. So the person that you knew in Afghanistan who was part of your group and part of the Islamic National Front, what was his name?
A. Dr. Abdullah Mohamed Yusef.
That two individuals, Al-Fadl and Dr. Yusef, were both members of al Qaeda and QCS indicates a high-level of coordination between the charity and the terrorist group. The complicity of QCS with al Qaedas terrorist acts is noted in Dr. Yusefs funding of an al Qaeda attack through the QCS. As al-Fadls testimony states:
Q. What did you do with him regard to the Qatar charitable organization?
A. He helped the jihad Eritrea group, and also he give $20,000 for one of the attack (sic) outside of Sudan.
Al-Fadl has also stated that QCS aided, abetted and materially supported al Qaeda through non-financial means. In his second day of testimony, Al-Fadl discussed a meeting of al Qaeda members in 1994 that took place in QCS offices:
Q. When was the second meeting?
A. Its during 94.
Q. Where was it?
A. In Jam Qatar Heira. It’s Qatar organization.
Q. Is that the same organization you described yesterday or a different
one?
A. Yes, same one.
Q. Is that the Qatar Charitable Organization?
A. Yes.
QCS history and pattern of conduct is that of furthering the spread of Islamic international terrorism wherever possible. This underlying goal of the QCS is revealed through its financing of Wahhabi terrorists in the Caucasus region.
In April, 2002, the Azerbaijan Government annulled the registration of the QCS.
This action was taken because, as stated by the Azerbaijani Justice Ministry, QCS engaged in activities that contradict Azerbaijans national interests. The Justice Ministry went on to say that QCS was targeted because it performed, damaging activities that violate our national interests, as well as cooperated with terrorist structures and conducted propaganda inciting radical sectarianism, religious hatred and fanaticism.
In 1999, a group of Wahhabi militiamen invaded and took control of three districts of Dagestan, a country neighboring Chechnya. Dagestani police have identified that, the day before the attack, $200,000 were transferred into QCS account with the Dagestan Commercial Bank. Following the invasion, these funds were distributed to the terrorists. After this event, Dagestani police have been able to identify at least an additional $1,000,000 that QCS transferred to aid the attack against Russia. During this investigation, Dagestani police have determined that there were no records of the funds flowing into and out of the QCS for a number of years.
The Government of Russias International sponsors of Chechen terrorist list, from 1991-2000, is a comprehensive list of organizations that provided aid or support for terrorist organizations in Chechnya. The Qatar Charitable Society was included on this list.
Ahmed Ali al-Bugainain and Dr. Abdullah Mohamed Yusef are aiders, abettors, agents, co-conspirators and material supporters of Qatar Charitable Society, al Qaeda, and international terrorism.
Burnett, et al. v. Al-Barakat, et al. p.369 paragraph 600
http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/case_docs/1239.pdf
http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302/thread/1285612924/last-1285612924/Qatari+regime+financed+Basayeav+and+Khattabs+invasion+of+Dagestan+in+99.
Just imagine what would be left of Qatar if it financed terrorism inside the USA.
I wish Russia had a nuke that could penetrate deep underground and blow the Qatari gas reserves to Hell. That would serve those maggots right.
Well, the Saudis/Qataris did, in a way, finance terrorism inside the USA. (I allude to 9/11, of course, brutal attack against lower Manhattan and murder of many innocent civilians.) This (plus a few other attacks against American assets, like Kenya embassy) is the one fact that doesn’t make any sense to me. Because, aside from these incidents, it is clear as a bell that Al Qaeda is basically the Foreign Legion of American government/Wall Street. Al Qaeda works for America as their paramilitary force in Middle East and Africa, also with a lot of help from NATO, Saudis, Qataris, and even Israelis. Bin Laden was an American operative through and through. His jaw must have fell open and his teeth clattered to the floor when he saw those Seals enter his compound. His final words were, “But guys, I work for you…. I…. WTF… AHGGGG!”
Just in the past couple of weeks, so-called “Al Qaeda” has started launching attacks against Shiite civilians (=religious pilgrims) in Iraq. Under Saddam, Iraq was a Sunni-ruled state with NO Al Qaeda problem. When Americans removed Saddam, they put the Shiites in power, but also brought their Al Qaeda dogs in with them to help keep stirring the pot. I see these latest attacks as an attempt to disrupt the growing Shiite consolidation of Iraq and try to prevent an Iraqi-Iranian alliance.
The “theory” about Al Qaeda being an American paramilitary force is no longer even a theory, given the whole history (Afghanistan and so on), and then after latest events in Libya and Syria it is pretty clear even to people who don’t follow events that this is a banal fact. (Despite Obama’s braggin’ about how many Al Qaeda #2’s he droned.) However, that Saudi attack against American assets on 9/11/2001 never made any sense, what master would permit his own hired dogs to attack himself in his own home?
Apparently Roosevelt allowed the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbour to stir up Americans to join the war and break out of their isolationism. So 9/11 is like Pearl Harbour: get Americans to support indefinite military adventures in the Middle East and elsewhere in the name of the war on a tactic “terror”. America can always point to 9/11 and claim it is the victim and its neo-imperialism is defense and the right to retribution.
But my point still stands. The USA would never permit some insurgency operation on its soil. A flashy event which can be cleaned up quickly and has no potential of spinning out of control is completely different.
There is more than enough evidence that “Al Qaeda” a fringe group of Islamists not amounting to more than 100 people are hired mercenaries working for various western intelligence agencies which in so cases is admitted like those who work for MPRI and other private mercenary corporations employed by the Pentagon.
Investigative journalist Dennis Hopsicker has been investigating Atta and the other hijackers stay while they were in Florida detailing there connections to the CIA and talking to witnesses including Atta’s stripper girlfriend.
“However, that Saudi attack against American assets on 9/11/2001 never made any sense, what master would permit his own hired dogs to attack himself in his own home?”
If it was a real terrorist attack working through intelligence networks used to fight in Islamic proxy wars abroad in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, etc that we know as a FACT the US was directly creating and supporting Chechen terrorist groups up to 9/11.
So when the pre-9/11 warnings state that terrorists linked to Bin Ladin and Khattab are planning to hijack a commercial plane in the US and all the other foreign intelligence warnings including Russia and investigations were called of and both foreign and domestic intelligence services in Europe and the US were monitoring the hijackers then it becomes clear they simply just let it happen.
Personally as the initial French intelligence warning states I think it was a planned and supervised traditional political hijacking to land planes in the US and demand Russian forces withdrawal for Chechnya but in Bin Ladins own words the lead hijackers were secretly tasked to turn it into a suicide mission that makes the anomalies of 9/11 that people have either missed or misrepresented make sense.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a96hijackerschechnya#a96hijackerschechnya
As I said before there is a Chechen connection all over 9/11 so there is no doubt they were operating through a protected intelligence network spanning Europe and North America that we know exists.
Quite frankly the idea of success of just one plane successfully hitting there target was slime but 3 out of the 4 is near impossible without the assistance of an intelligence agency domestic and possibly foreign. Not to mention the psychical evidence regarding the twin towers and building 7.
For the rest of today, I am a raving Russophobe.
Оле-оле-оле! Россия домой!
Russian team flies homes from Warshava to Moscow. According to rosbalt, plane left 1 hour late because Russian team had so much baggage. I have never been to Warsaw, although I would like to go someday, is it shopoholic’s paradise, perhaps? these guys are lucky plane didn’t crash with all that extra weight. Here is photo of the happy brutes:
http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2012/06/17/993623.html
Please don’t hate me, fellow Russians, but I was rooting for Greece the whole time. That does not make me a traitor. Actually, I don’t really give a sh*t about football, they’re all a bunch of apes anyhow… and that goes TRIPLE for the fans.
“Сборная 90 минут не могла попасть в самолет.” – Langeo
из-за багажа??