Map: China Approval in Europe

Interesting map of European approval of China, though being mostly from 2018/19 (see Sources) this was from before the coronavirus.

But I don’t expect the general patterns to have changed, the countries already disposed to think well of China wouldn’t have had their expectations shattered – possibly, even the converse – while the more Sinophobic would have bought into the “China Flu” and “Uyghur Genocide” narratives being pushed in the past few months.

Trump regardless, “Core Europe” is firmly on the side of the US in the Great Bifurcation.

Anatoly Karlin is a transhumanist interested in psychometrics, life extension, UBI, crypto/network states, X risks, and ushering in the Biosingularity.

 

Inventor of Idiot’s Limbo, the Katechon Hypothesis, and Elite Human Capital.

 

Apart from writing booksreviewstravel writing, and sundry blogging, I Tweet at @powerfultakes and run a Substack newsletter.

Comments

  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Blinky Bill says
  3. 14 in Kosovo. LOL

  4. Kent Nationalist says

    I would bet it has dropped in the UK. Unfortunately, a lot of moronic Tories are convinced by Imperial nostalgia that it is our duty to defend Hong Kong from Chinese genocide and accept all six million of them as immigrants. I doubt that Coronavirus has had much of an effect; people don’t seem to associate it very much with China any more.

  5. I think China could quite easily copy Korea’s cultural export strategy. Muslims seem like they consume a lot of soap operas, though I’m not sure how much they could move their numbers with soft power.

  6. Adrian E. says

    Ist core Europe really firmly on the US side?

    There is no doubt that the percentage of people with favorable views on China is much lower in Central-Western and Western Europe than in Eastern, Central-Eastern Europe and the Balkans.

    But when we look at the percentage of people with favorable views on the US in different polls, it is similarly low in Western and Central-Western Europe (and lower than the percentage of people with favorable views on the US in some Central-Eastern European countries). The most common position in Germany and other Western European countries seems to be that neither on China nor on the US views are favorable.

    Under these circumstances, it is unlikely that continental European countries would join a US-Chinese cold war on the US side. This would probably be very unpopular among the populations of these European countries, and many of them have more trade with China than with the US. They won’t join such a cold war firmly on the Chinese side, either, but since it is mainly the US that makes aggressive moves, it can be expected that there will be some pushback against the US from continental Europe.

  7. Please stop posting off topic garbage, if I crowd is comments section with 90s Formula 1 races it would still be considered off topic spam right?

  8. Based on Mike Whitney, shouldn’t Sweden be the coronavirus soft power superpower right now? Or the US? Since it also seemed to have followed Sweden’s strategy, except that they are even more audacious. Maybe the COVID fatality rates really are being artificially inflated by a factor of 1000?

  9. Blinky Bill says
  10. Voltarde says

    Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that whoever created the map shown doesn’t recognize the vote of the people of Crimea to join the Russian Federation.

  11. Blinky Bill says


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Željko_Ražnatović.jpg

    Arkan

    Military commander

    During the NATO bombing, Ražnatović denied the war crime charges against him in interviews he gave to foreign reporters. Ražnatović accused NATO of bombing civilians and creating refugees of all ethnicities, and stated that he would deploy his troops only in the case of a direct NATO ground invasion. After the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, which killed three journalists and led to a diplomatic row between the United States and the People’s Republic of China, the British Observer and Danish Politiken newspapers claimed the building might have been targeted because the office of the Chinese military attaché was being used by Ražnatović to communicate and transmit messages to his paramilitary group, the Tigers, in Kosovo.

  12. Is it really believable that the Serbs have the lowest IQ in all of Europe, considering their performance against the Americans?

  13. Blinky Bill says

    https://youtu.be/qeAEdU4p5Cg

    The Serbian Solidarity Fund, managed by Ljubiša Savić, began preparing for the defense of Serb territory in Majevica amid inter-ethnic tensions between Serbs and Bosniaks in 1991 and 1992. Around 1,000 members readily available for military action were stationed and monitored the situation in preparation to defend the Serb population in Bijeljina and Semberija, should they face armed aggression. During the night of March the 31st, 1992, barricades were laid by pro-SDA forces in an attempt to take over command and authoritative control of Bijeljina.

    Serb forces quickly rallied themselves and with the aid of Željko Ražnatović removed the barriers.

  14. another anon says

    Trump regardless, “Core Europe” is firmly on the side of the US in the Great Bifurcation.

    Long overdue. The world is tired of peace and tired of fake “cold wars”.

    The world want another great and glorious war, and great and glorious victory.

    https://twitter.com/IsmailY54094388/status/1284639264932798470

  15. SIMP simp says

    Serbians and kosovars still remember the war.

  16. Blinky Bill says

    So do the Chinese.

    https://youtu.be/5sx-dTI7FSs

  17. AnonFromTN says

    “Core Europe” is firmly on the side of the US in the Great Bifurcation.

    To evaluate the importance of this map, one has to remember that “core Europe” is successfully making itself less and less relevant. If it stays this course for ten more years, the attitudes of core Europe would be is important as the attitudes of Burkina Faso.

  18. AnonFromTN says

    Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that whoever created the map shown doesn’t recognize the vote of the people of Crimea to join the Russian Federation.

    The status of Crimea is only part of reality. The disease of “core Europe” is worse than that: its propaganda (using German term, lugenpresse) disregards and denies all reality. Hypocrisy is the name of the game in “core Europe”. That’s why it is going down the drain in everything.

  19. A unipolar world where the monopoly American hardware and software arrive with preinstalled backdoor and the rest of us must use with CIA listening in is BAD, BAD, BAD.

  20. AnonFromTN says

    Wouldn’t you agree that the UK would be much better off accepting 6 million Hong Kongers than adding another 6 million Pakis to the population?

  21. Kent Nationalist says

    That’s not the choice though. We will just end up getting both.

  22. Vaterland says

    Trump regardless, “Core Europe” is firmly on the side of the US in the Great Bifurcation.

    This you can only believe, if you don’t live here. And even in terms of pure number’s the difference is not that impressive.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/01/08/trump-ratings-remain-low-around-globe-while-views-of-u-s-stay-mostly-favorable/

    Meanwhile, Europe’s lowest ratings for the U.S. are in the Netherlands (46% favorable), Sweden (45%) and Germany (39%). Outside of the EU, ratings for the U.S. are much more positive in Ukraine (73% favorable) than in Russia (29%).

    and the trend is rapidly downward https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2018/10/01/americas-international-image-continues-to-suffer/ And not just because “Drumpf is racist”.

    This despite the US’ overwhelming global soft power advantage in terms of mass media and propaganda over China who are terrible at both. And the “general view” of a country also is something different than policy decisions which are clear in my country and even more so in France. Which is only rational. When the Cold War boomers die off, it’s bye-bye America. And in the end who cares what some meme country with less people than a single German state thinks whose best and brightest almost all move to Western Europe anyway.

  23. Not Only Wrathful says

    I’d be better off adopting my friend’s child than a stranger’s, but I’d rather have my own.

  24. Blinky Bill says

    Normally you’d be right but not when they look like this.

    https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03061/Joshua-Wong_3061756b.jpg

    There’s only so much a proud Englishmen can take!

    The Chinese aren’t going to send Six million of these.

    https://youtu.be/gYWgVlrDJ_w

  25. Not Only Wrathful says

    The animosity of cousins may seem to be bigger than the animosity of strangers, but I bet the cousins band together if faced by the strangers.

  26. Jaakko Raipala says

    Based on Mike Whitney, shouldn’t Sweden be the coronavirus soft power superpower right now?

    It is. All of Sweden’s neighbors have imitated it. Norwegian leaders have apologized for overreacting in panic, ours have to be silent because they’re about to hand over billions in corona bailouts to southern EU states but we’re still imitating Sweden.

    Or the US? Since it also seemed to have followed Sweden’s strategy,

    What???

    Sweden: corona hysteria is long over, people are out having fun, schools were open and will be open in the fall, no one ever wore masks, the people supported the not-lockdown and still do

    US: the media and Democrat state politicians are STILL pushing hysteria over this meme flu, schools will remain closed in many states, the leftist half of the country is still defending absurd lockdown policies, there are still mandatory mask policies and other hysterical overreactions all over the country.

    The corona coverage over here has not connected it to China at all except in the beginning when it was only in Asia. In the beginning they were predicting the fall of CCP due to its supposed ineptness with the virus but that all disappeared when the virus reached the West and we saw how inept Western democracies are.

    The propaganda about Uyghurs and Hong Kong and all that is going ahead full speed but the connection of the corona virus and China has disappeared. I think it’s mainly because the anti-Chinese propaganda is just recycled translations from the US and American propagandists are all leftists who want to use the corona virus as a weapon against Trump. not China. In the US it’s pro-Republican media that tries to keep the China virus narrative going but that has no influence in Europe.

    The negative opinion on China is very shallow – people may sympathize with Hong Kong protests but that’s far away and no one wants it to prevent business. Opinion polls have long indicated that the vast majority of Europeans want to remain neutral in any US/China conflict (and they were already saying that before Trump and corona). It’s one thing to have a shallow opinion based on constant American propaganda on the news but it’s a totally different thing to actually side against China if it means significant sacrifices, even if it’s in just trade deals.

  27. It is. All of Sweden’s neighbors have imitated it. Norwegian leaders have apologized for overreacting in panic

    Sweden – 5 639 deaths
    Norway-255 deaths

    If Norway regrets not following the example of Sweden, then I definitely do not understand something in this world

  28. Blinky Bill says


    https://youtu.be/6pQRtznB1Pk
    https://youtu.be/i49NoVCTY7Q

    The picture was distributed in sixty countries, and achieved its greatest success in the People’s Republic of China, becoming the country’s most popular foreign film in the 1970s. Owing mainly to the Chinese audience, Walter Defends Sarajevo became “one of the most-watched war films of all time.”

    In China, children and streets were named after characters from the film, and a beer brand called ‘Walter’ was marketed with Velimir Živojinović’s picture on the label. It still enjoys great popularity in the country.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Velimir_Bata_Živojinović_2019_stamp_of_Serbia.jpg

  29. Kent Nationalist says

    Got to be a reason the yanks bombed the embassy there; I’m sure the Serbs haven’t forgotten

  30. US: the media and Democrat state politicians are STILL pushing hysteria over this meme flu, schools will remain closed in many states, the leftist half of the country is still defending absurd lockdown policies, there are still mandatory mask policies and other hysterical overreactions all over the country

    overreactions???

    https://i.ibb.co/YjTDQNg/image.png

  31. Ismail Yusuf
    @IsmailY54094388
    A Somali living in America. Hope to return to the motherland as soon as I can. A Muslim. Against dictatorship.

    Of course he wishes for nuclear war. His neighborhood probably already burned down in “peaceful protests”, and nobody is going to waste nukes on Mogadishu. So all he needs for an apocalypse is a comfy chair, a bag of popcorn, and a plane ticket home.

  32. Passer by says

    European Power in the 21st Century (as share of world)

    Estimates from Pardee Center for International Futures, USA

    https://imgur.com/a/8xMby1G

  33. AnonFromTN says

    We will just end up getting both.

    In that case formerly Great formerly Britain, RIP. Can’t you guys do something to save your country?

  34. AnonFromTN says

    a plane ticket home

    That won’t help: no planes will fly after WWIII. A raft with a sail, maybe, like Heyerdahl’s Kon-Tiki. Won’t be simple and would take some weeks, though. So, he’d be better off flying home before WWIII.

  35. AnonFromTN says

    Even that is optimistic, assumes no WWIII.

  36. inertial says

    What do you mean by “buying into the China Flu”? It’s not China flu?

  37. Jaakko Raipala says

    Nearly all of Sweden’s deaths are in nursing homes and terminal care facilities. Sweden didn’t actually avoid panic either and they thought that they wouldn’t have the capacity to save the already dying so they didn’t do anything to help them.

    However in the rest of society basically nothing happened. Healthy young people are not dying, the hospitals are not being overwhelmed, actually no one outside of elderly care needs to even know that this disease exists. So by comparing to Sweden we can see that the correct model is more action to protect the elderly, less action for the rest of society.

    And that’s exactly what we’re going now – the lockdown was ended months ago in Finland, no one wears masks, schools open, bars are open, beaches are open, no one social distances and basically corona measures are over for the vast majority of people. The disease is still spreading but that’s fine. We’re doing what Sweden has been doing except with more care on policies regarding elderly.

    Also the number of deaths comparison will have to include people who died due to the lockdowns to be at all fair. For example, in Finland many hospitals were entirely cleared and lots of scheduled procedures were canceled to make room for the corona patients that never materialized. They’ve calculated that it’s going to take years to catch up on the schedule of canceled surgeries etc. How many people are going to die needlessly because of this? We’ll only have the numbers in a few years but it’s telling how fast our government rushed to cancel the lockdown once numbers started coming out over the canceled medical procedures.

    Furthermore, given how many of the dead in Sweden are people in terminal care homes where admitted people have one month of expected life left, these are essentially natural deaths. It’s really not worth it to sacrifice life-saving surgeries for young people so that 90-year-olds in terminal care can have one or two more weeks of life – which isn’t even a necessary trade-off since you can actually do more than Sweden did to protect the elderly without a lockdown for all of society.

  38. These fucks are easy to detect. Kosovo always shown separately (but no other unrecognized state is), Crimea ALWAYS Ukraine. Deviation causes an aneurysm

  39. Not Raul says

    It looks like Orthodox Christians like China the most, Catholics are in the middle, and Protestants and Muslims like China the least.

    Notice the border between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia: Serbia is very pro-China (perhaps this is due to Clinton bombing Serbia), while Kosovo is very anti-China (they owe their de-facto independence to Clinton, NATO, and the EU).

    Perhaps Serbia without non-Orthodox minority groups would be even more pro-China, and Kosovo without the Serbian minority would be even more anti-China.

    In a way, this is a shame. China has no love for Russia. Even during the Cold War, more Russian blood was shed fighting China than fighting NATO.

  40. Not Raul says

    Bombing a Chinese facility was a boneheaded move.

    I wonder who actually made the call: Clinton, or some Neocon and/or ex-lobbyist further down the chain of command.

  41. yakushimaru says

    It is now American. 🙁

  42. The United States has always been a violent country – heavily populated
    as it is by two hyper-violent groups: blacks and Germanics (mostly Germans
    and Scandinavians) – but this year the U.S. has become obscenely violent.
    Hundreds of thousands are dying prematurely whether through murder, suicide,
    or due to Covid-19, as cities have descended into anarchy, P.S. Steve Sailer always
    says that good Germans came to the U.S. while only bad Germans remained
    in Europe. Don’t believe him! About 58 million Americans are of Germanic
    origin (and they are not all Amish) while 10 million are of Scandinavian
    ancestry, both groups IMHO have helped to turn the U.S. into a militaristic
    country that has glorified war (just like pre-WW I Germany) as the solution
    to all our problems, and to progress in science and technology since “war is
    father of invention.”

  43. Correction: War (and preparation for war) as essential to progress
    in science and technology since “war is the father of invention”

  44. And in Melbourne, Australia, people will be forced to wear masks starting from Thursday or face a $200 fine.

  45. Norway PM on June 7:

    ““I probably took many of the decisions out of fear. Worst case scenarios became controlling,”

    “Was it necessary to close schools? Maybe not. But at the same time, I think it was the right thing to do at the time. Based on the information we had, we took a precautionary strategy.”

    This does not sound as a regret. Norway does not regret its policy with respect to covid -19. The policy outlined by the document of 08/05/2020 is still in effect:

    https://www.regjeringen.no/en/dokumenter/long-term-strategy-and-plan-for-handling-the-covid-19-pandemic-and-adjustment-of-measures/id2701518/

    Long-term strategy and plan for handling the Covid-19 pandemic and adjustment of measures
    Adopted by the Government on 7 May 2020.

    Jaakko Raipala is a troll at least when it comes to covid-19. He does not represent views of Norway or Finland.

  46. For an excellent treatment of the cult of war in pre-WW I Germany,
    see “Rites of Spring – The Great War and the Birth of the Modern
    Age” with who else but Wacław Niżyński (Vaslav Nijinsky) – great Polish
    ballet dancer – on the cover. The author is Modris Eksteins. The
    book describes the standard Germanic modus operandi – rationality
    in the service of stupidity, or madness if you prefer.

    But World War I happened during the Age of Modernity. Now that
    we have entered the Age of Postmodernity (since the 1970s I’d say)
    we are beginning to grasp the limits of rationality, and indeed the
    limitations of high IQ individuals. The standard example in U.S.
    history is the war in Vietnam which was initiated and run by
    “the best and the brightest.” People are finally beginning to grasp
    ever so dimly that it’s not the quality of your thinking process
    that counts in life but the quality of your decision-making process
    because this is where thought and EMOTIONS translate into action.
    Someone with an IQ of 115 can have a superior decision making ability
    to someone with an IQ of 150.

    The key decision making strategy that I always bring up (and is the
    foundation of Aristotelian, Buddhist, and Catholic ethics) is the
    Principle of Moderation in all things. In the language of Game Theory
    this can be restated as the famous Minimax Principle, i.e., act in such
    a way as to minimize your maximum errors. I hope that the simplistic
    worship of IQ by Sailer, Karlin, etc will be replaced by a more
    sophisticated approach with superior decision making as an ideal.

    An example of my emphasis on moderation and cooperation is discussed
    in the recent book “Survival of the Friendliest.” Dogs, unlike wolves,
    are thriving because of their superior decision making process that
    steered them toward cooperation with and friendliness toward humans,
    and we love them for it.

  47. I always stress the similarity between Catholicism and Buddhism, and this is
    indeed recognized by Buddhists as well. For example, when the Dalai Lama
    in his younger days used to visit the West, he’d always stay at Catholic
    monasteries, and said that he felt totally at home.

  48. From a New Zealand perspective: Sweden has (a) twice our population (b) 50 times the number of infections and (c) 250 times the number of deaths. Also, despite the economic damage, I have yet to meet anyone who did not enjoy our lockdown. Our strategy was elimination and it worked. Every new case is a New Zealander returning from overseas, as is their right.

  49. Furthermore, given how many of the dead in Sweden are people in terminal care homes where admitted people have one month of expected life left, these are essentially natural deaths.

    It will be necessary to assess this at the end of the year, but so far the available statistics make us doubt the” naturalness ” of these deaths

    https://i.ibb.co/qrwqpS9/image.png

    Also the number of deaths comparison will have to include people who died due to the lockdowns to be at all fair. For example, in Finland …

    As far as I know in Finland and Norway, the death rate remained within the normal range, but in Sweden it almost doubled.

  50. “Our strategy was elimination and it worked.” – Exactly. The elimination strategy was not put on the table in most of the countries of the West. Instead a false alternative of two memes of “curve flattening” versus “herd immunity” was created. Sweden played an important role in capturing minds of wackos, the feebleminded and disinfo agents who all wittingly or not worked in concert so the putting the elimination strategy on the table was not possible.

    I would add that the Big Pharma was against the elimination strategy as well because it would render its program of future vaccination unnecessary. For this very reason CDC and WHO was not recommending universal (85%) mask wearing because from the Big Pharma perspective mask wearing countries in East Asia that effectively are able to suppress flu epidemics w/o vaccinations programs are not good for the flu vaccine business. Instead we heard form CDC and WHO that masks are ineffective.

    Furthermore the elimination strategy required closing of International borders for a long time after the epidemic which would be de facto moratorium on immigration and an opportunity to rethink immigration policies. Interestingly all the alt-right wackos and libertarians were against it. Covid-19 was an opportunity that the anti immigration alt-right succeeded sabotaging.

    Anyway, all those anti mask and anti social distancing people like our Jaakko Raipala here are the useful idiots of Big Pharma and of pro immigration globalists.

  51. “Our strategy was elimination and it worked.” – Exactly. The elimination strategy was not put on the table in most of the countries of the West.

    Under the existing conditions (i.e. late closed borders and insufficient number of tests at that time), complete elimination of the infection was clearly impossible in Europe/America. Probably the optimal strategy is a short-term lockdown at the beginning of the epidemic, with mandatory wearing of masks (the lack of factory masks could be compensated with homemade masks – it was enough to simply transfer 500 euros to all citizens and order them to wear masks, if they did not make the mask themselves, they would buy it)

    During this time, it was possible to increase the number of tests, then cancel the lockdown (retaining only the wearing of masks on public transport), and fight infection through mass tests

  52. Disagree. Testing is not a necessary condition for the elimination strategy. Contact tracing and suspect quarantine will suffice.

  53. Contact tracing and suspect quarantine will suffice.

    theoretically Yes, but in practice it requires such total control over citizens, which is not exist in any country in Europe/America. In addition, I wrote about the best scenario – for the scientifically and technically strong countries of Europe and America, suppressing infection with tests (in the future, with a vaccine), preferably in comparison with North Korean-style police measures.

  54. AltanBakshi says

    I wonder how long USA and west can survive with all these internal contradictions in narrative, has there ever been in western history as much internal and external demonization as nowadays? Trump is bad, so are the white people who voted for him, but China too is bad as is evil resurgent Russia, which is same time weak and decaying country and same time strong villain that can confront magically USA on any front. For how long liberal elite can continue with this course? They have huge economic machine behind them but no system can survive of losing all prestige, which is now happening. What I mean that they try to inflame divisions not just between countries externally, but internally in their own societies too. It does not make any sense from strategic point of view. Even strongest powers in history have lost if they lack cohesion and unity. Therefore I wonder if liberal elites have lost their sense of reality? Maybe generations of being wealthy people living in huge cities has cut their connection to the nature and to the natural sensibilities? It amuses me when the liberal elites have these trends of being connected to nature or living in natural way, when as individuals they are most unnatural beings in history of humanity and who have no connection to it. In my limited knowledge only times in history when there has been such internal and external confusion in the policies of elite, it has been when there is real infighting between and inside of the ruling elites. Like Mao’s cultural revolution which in reality was Mao’s attempt to purge those Communists who criticized Mao for the failure of the Great Leap Forwards and wanted to continue the Soviet style reforms in Chinese society and have a collective leadership in the style of post-Stalin Soviet Union, so that Mao would have been left with diminished role in society. In those times no one outside of China or even outside of Chinese elites knew anything about the infighting between cliques of CCP. We even now dont know all the details, why the probable successor of Mao Marshal Lin Biao decided to run away from China with his family, by plane in middle of the Cultural revolution?

    But then I dont see any outward signs of faultlines between liberal elites, I dont believe that there is a major conflict between republican and democratic elites, for republicans are tio subservient, its something else, maybe after one hundred year we will truly know what kind of byzantine plots there were? But there must be somekind of internal division and struggle for power, if not then they have gone mad and only mad conspiracy theories can then explain the actions of the western elites. Or there is one another quite mundane explanation, they are not in control anymore, things are too chaotic for them and they are as confused as the common people are and try to make ad hoc decisions based on their liberal biases. After all only couple decades ago it was mostly men who had the experience of serving in military, that ruled the west. Oh but tis’ all is just speculation.

  55. Well, considering that generally the same people that are warning about coronavirus are the same people supporting white race replacement and genocide, can you really blame their sentiments?

  56. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    90s Formula 1 racing is more interesting than a lot of the other crap. Quit complaining.

  57. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    Also, despite the economic damage, I have yet to meet anyone who did not enjoy our lockdown.

    You are not an American small business owner.

    But it is obvious that the vast majority of Anatoly Karlin’s commenters have never met an American who lives outside of some gay bug man city.

  58. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    The point is, if you defend the lockdown strategies as practiced by America’s states, you’re almost certainly an ignorant moron. Pennsylvania and California, for example, are forcing businesses to close again statewide; this in states with huge rural areas, many of which have not seen a new case in months. Also, as happens with viruses, it has evolved to become less deadly. Nonetheless, Broward County FL is now attempting to force residents to wear masks within their own residences. If you support this, then you’re a moron. End of story.

    As for past precedent, you can call “herd immunity” a “meme,” but this country has never before tried either “curve flattening” or “elimination.” For 1968, which was just as bad as this one when adjusted for population differences, we did herd immunity and got better results, without a devastating depression that will have massive health side effects.

  59. You greatly exaggerate to the point of a straw man in your arguments. No “total control over citizens” is needed. Lots of persuasion and some penalties. All that to bring R0 below 1 and keep it there for long enough time that the last infected person becomes non infectious. And then border closed as long as there are infections abroad to prevent virus reimportation. Europe or at least some European countries could have done it. Though obviously it would be much easier if there was a resolve for the same policy of elimination among many countries that share borders. It was easier for New Zealand and Taiwan. because they are island. But still some European countries came close like Slovakia. Even much large Poland done OK though they could have done much better if they set a higher goal for themselves. But this did not happen because the elimination strategy was never put on the table. I am pretty sure that health and military ministries of most countries have a ready to use elimination strategy plan somewhere in the drawers of their desks.

    So, why we were not allowed to pursue the elimination strategy? Possibly the epidemics was needed for the global vilification of China or for some other reason like some global economic readjustment or reset.. Or possibly Big Pharma did not want to create a precedence of virus eradication by mean other than vaccination. Or possibly the globalizers feared that closing borders that the elimination strategy required would hurt their cause and get people a wrong idea that they actually may like their borders closed.

  60. Another feebleminded lolbertian got triggered.

  61. Very bad for the German immigrants to teach the peaceable English & French inhabitants of the Americas war stuff. Naughty Teutons!

  62. anonymous coward says

    Even during the Cold War, more Russian blood was shed fighting China than fighting NATO.

    What do you mean “even”??

    I know this has been memoryholed, but during the so-called “Cold War” the USSR and China were enemies; moreover, the USSR was friendlier with the USA than with China!

    E.g., Soyuz/Apollo, American grain, Pepsi, nuclear treaties, etc. The same level of cooperation with China would have been absolutely unthinkable at the time.

  63. Europe Europa says

    Russians seem to be very pro-China, but I’m not sure the feeling is mutual. I think most Chinese see ethnic Russian presence in their border regions as part of the colonial legacy and a national humiliation, similar to Hong Kong and Macau.

    Obviously, their main focus at the moment is Hong Kong, but in time I think they will turn their attentions to the Russian Far East.

  64. Daniel Chieh says

    I thought I heard an echo.

    Anyway, the most recent polls showed Chinese perception of Russia as extremely high, higher than Russian perception of China.

  65. Europe Europa says

    The United States has always been a violent country – heavily populated
    as it is by two hyper-violent groups: blacks and Germanics (mostly Germans
    and Scandinavians)

    Germany and the Scandinavian countries all have lower violent crime rates than Britain or even France for that matter, so I’m not sure the idea that Germanics are “hyper-violent” in the way blacks are really stands up to scrutiny.

    The general perception across Europe is that the native British underclass is much more violent and disorderly, in a black sort of way, that the German or Scandinavian underclass are.

  66. Europe Europa says

    In general the Chinese perception of Britain has traditionally been high, despite Hong Kong. I don’t think that sort of polling really means a lot when it comes to territorial sort of stuff.

    Also, this sort of stuff can be whipped up by politicians on a whim. The average Chinese person probably doesn’t think too much of Russia at the moment, because all the focus is on Hong Kong and the British colonial legacy, but once all that is resolved then I wouldn’t think an annexation of the Russian Far East is totally out of the question.

  67. Well, considering that generally the same people that are warning about coronavirus are the same people supporting white race replacement and genocide

    This is just nonsense. In particular, Anatoly Karlin warned about the coronavirus – it is a pity that the authorities did not listen to him

  68. Kent Nationalist says

    I think most Chinese see ethnic Russian presence in their border regions as part of the colonial legacy and a national humiliation, similar to Hong Kong and Macau.

    Any basis for this or just your telepathy?

  69. Daniel Chieh says

    HK has always been fundamentally different from Siberian territories, and the Chinese perception of Britain was fundamentally molded by the Opium Wars in a very negative fashion. Even a quick assay of Chinese pop culture in the last 40 years would show it.

  70. Whats the logic in turning on Russian Far East?

    Hong Kong = large Chinese megapolis with developed infrastructure and economy.

    Russian Far East = frozen tundra with a few Russians and some resources.

    Russians are perfectly happy to sell resources to China, so that can’t be the source of conflict. Demographically, China and Russia are in the same boat with aging population, and China is urbanizing. Nobody in China wants to go farm Russian tundra, their declining share of young people would much rather become software engineers in air conditioned offices in big cites like Hong Kong, not die in the trenches around Vladivostok or something.

    Far more importantly though, China can’t afford to piss off Russia. The US will try to take China down the old fashioned way – sanctions and naval blocade. It worked with Japan after all. Chinese Navy is no match for US at this point, so China won’t be able to break out through the seas.

    BUT – American aircraft carriers don’t work well in Siberian tundra. It will take too many elk to tow them around. So as long as Russia covers Chinese northern flank, China will be able to hold out and not starve. This is also why US is so hostile to Russia and will try to take Russia down first. Russia is perceived as a weaker flank, and as any military strategist knows, you always attack the weak spot first. Russia needs to be destroyed first (like Iraq or Syria or Libya) to deny China supply lines, only then can US directly attack and starve China into submission.

  71. Europe Europa says

    Many Chinese think Vladivostok was stolen from them, they even have a name for it “Haishenwai”. Xi Jinping has even referred to these “unequal treaties” that founded Vladivostok in a recent speech.

    You’re blatantly some sort of pro-Russian shill so I’m not sure you’re particularly representative of Chinese opinion on this overall. If anti-British sentiment was really such an integral part of Chinese pop culture as you claim then why would so many Chinese go to Britain to study? Many British universities are practically sustained by Chinese money and are actually concerned they will have to shut in the post-Covid world because less Chinese will be going to study abroad.

  72. AnonFromTN says

    Scientific argument. Accumulating data suggest that this virus was present in Europe and the US long before the outbreak in Wuhan. Moreover, genetic analysis of covid-19 strains suggests that the strain prevalent in Wuhan is not at the root of covid-19 evolution tree.

    Unscientific argument. Trump and many others in the US elites call covid-19 “China flu”. As the people in question are well known to never speak a word of truth, it stands to reason that they are lying in this, as well.

  73. Well what does HK and Macao represent to China, aside from emotional reasons and reasons of nationalistic pride? I mean China is very large, and not getting back HK does not do any more damage to China’s core interests any more than not getting back Gibraltar harms Spain. I mean even if it did not get back HK, it can still develop Xiamen or Shanghai as a SEZ and an alternative to HK, basically on a purely economic basis there is not sense in getting HK back, with all of its attendant problems.

  74. Even if it did not get back HK there are lots of cities on the Chinese coasts that can serve the same function as HK, and getting back HK just got it a politically hostile population. And China still has some problems like too many single men, not enough child births, overbuilt property sector with a fourth of buildings lying empty, too much debt, and its economic figures are suspect, especially for 2Q 2020, and the latest figures show that employment still has not recovered to pre-coronavirus levels, and retail sales and consumer spending still has not fully recovered either.

  75. Blinky Bill says
  76. You greatly exaggerate to the point of a straw man in your arguments. No “total control over citizens” is needed. ….It was easier for New Zealand and Taiwan. because they are island. But still some European countries came close like Slovakia.

    Slovakia has not been able to suppress the coronavirus

    https://i.ibb.co/5WmthqM/3.png

    , and the number of detected infections is constantly growing in Poland. This is despite the fact that both countries conduct a large number of tests. For this reason, it is possible to completely suppress the coronavirus by quarantine/sanitary measures (without test) only with super-rigid draconian methods used for a long time. Because of this, it is easier for European countries to rely on tests/vaccines to completely destroy the virus, but use quarantine measures to contain the epidemic

  77. Kent Nationalist says

    If anti-British sentiment was really such an integral part of Chinese pop culture as you claim then why would so many Chinese go to Britain to study?

    Have a conversation with a Chinese person in Britain and they will show this isn’t a paradox.

  78. Daniel Chieh says

    If you knew what “haisenwai” translated into, you would know why it is a silly comparison. It means “sea cucumber bay” in reference to the Manchu fishing village that existed there of rather little significance. Simple observation of population movement further would show Chinese abandoning northern providences.

    Chinese students strongly prefer American over British universities, anti-Angloism is a consistent feature that is only comparable in popularity with anti-Japanese feelings.

    Also TIL I am a Russian shill. Where is my Putin check?

  79. Daniel Chieh says

    That is sort of the plan to eventually reduce HK as a member of the Pearl River Delta megacity. The emotional reasons are also quite valid.

  80. Hong Kong population is what, 7 million? The largest protest was what, 2 million?

    Gaining control of the territory and 5 million of your people who don’t hate you is a smart move, even for a country as large as China. The 2 million hostiles can go to UK if they wish, no problem. But you do want to show that you back your people, and the land is a nice bonus.

    As for the rest, aside from demographics, all those problems are temporary and not critical. Chinese doll up their GDP just like everybody else, as long as they keep credit flowing, they will be fine.

  81. AnonFromTN says

    Where is my Putin check?

    Welcome to the club! I also wonder where the heck is mine. Been wondering for many years now. In the eyes of many trolls here 2×2=4 is malicious Russian propaganda, because in imperial propaganda (Sorosmatics, Trumpmatics, Baidenmatics, etc.) 2×2=5.5, maybe 7.5, but certainly not 4.

  82. Cornelius says

    The more neo-Liberal/cumsumer the more against China. Surprise surprise.

  83. I think the split based on the elections is 60 40 anti to pro, with those on the pro and neutral side skewing a lot older, or higher up the SES ladder.

  84. The Kosovo number is impressive. Never would have guessed something like that was possible short of direct invasion and occupation.

    Makes me wonder about the views of Muslim migrants into Europe.

  85. “This is despite the fact that both countries conduct a large number of tests”. Was telling you that testing is not essential. Strict social distancing including lockdowns when necessary and 85% prevalence of mask wearing. Slovakia relaxed its measures too soon. Poland has still a slowly creeping epidemic with R0=1, i.e., the daily cases are not increasing. They should isolate and quarantine areas where most new cases occur. Some time ago I have read that they had flare ups among the coal miners which sounded similar to flare ups in meat packing plants in the US.

    As I said before Slovakia and Poland like all other European countries did not set up their goal high enough. The virus elimination strategy was not on the table. The question is why. It could have been done.

  86. another anon says

    According to this highly accurate scientific survey, 62% of responders prefer US to China.

    If you think it is unrepresentative, vote and retweet.

    In the comments are communists and fighting liberals, come and join the fun 😉

    https://twitter.com/Comrade_Waluigi/status/1285398254562271232

  87. Boswald Bollocksworth says

    while the more Sinophobic would have bought into the “China Flu” and “Uyghur Genocide” narratives being pushed in the past few months.

    What is there to buy into? Wuhan virus…came from Wuhan, in all likelihood an escaped research project from the shoddy virology lab there. Chinese government lied about it, probably had people killed to cover it up.

    The Uighurs are most certainly being terminated as a folk group. You can say the Uighurcide and spreading a (likely) engineered virus around the globe are not a big deal, depends on your “utility function”, but they are facts we can readily observe.

  88. Blinky Bill says

    Love this interview. The female host is an absolute gem, represents the Western attitude to Serbia perfectly.

    https://youtu.be/7E74Y0ylrFY

  89. So 40% would make it 3 million pro-mainland friendly people? Still worth it. Support your friends, and the rest will either turn apolitical or go away. But friends are important, that’s how you build soft power.

  90. It also depends on the culture, some value old people emotionally, some less? Cultures with multigenerational households where old parents are taken care of at home rather than at a nursing home?

  91. In China, not visiting and taking care of your elderly parents is against the law and can land you in jail.

  92. I’ve read somewhere that Poland’s testing and tracing is on par with Brazil’s.

    And I think there is some sort of herd immunity going on in the Nordics, and perhaps Russia. I also read somewhere today that betacoronaviruses confer some immunity to SARS-CoV-2. I wonder if some older human coronavirus swept through Northern Europe recently and went undetected.

  93. Levtraro says

    For instance, when the right-wing govt of Spain joined the USA in the war on terror and they suffered a terrorist blowback attack in 2004, voters totally changed their mind in a matter of days and booted out the sure-to-win right-wing candidate and gave the less belicose socialists two terms. With the exception of lap-dog UK, European countries would not join another Cold War. I further add that this my well-informed opinion is “highly likely” which in newspeak means “almost surely” which in fact means no need to provide evidence.

  94. LondonBob says

    Imperial nostalgia? I still say the CIA payroll, impressive the level of the same China talking points being echoed across the media, twitter and certain politicians. My mum reads the Times, she has started echoing all this.

    Interesting though to see the CBI criticising China bashing in the FT today, I don’t think British business will accept this, China is too lucrative, the Huawei 5G is still being fudged, enormously costly to replace their technology.

  95. Levtraro says

    Good catch, makes the other data in the map highly suspicious, or highly likely fake.

  96. Not Raul says

    Maybe I shouldn’t have put in “even”.

    Yes, especially after 1960, the USSR tended to be a lot friendlier with the USA than with China.

  97. Reg Cæsar says

    The United States has always been a violent country – heavily populated
    as it is by two hyper-violent groups: blacks and Germanics (mostly Germans
    and Scandinavians)

    German and Scandinavian parts of the US have low crime rates. Germans may be overrepresented in bizarre sex crimes– Dahmer, Gein, Corll, in the old countries, Meiwes and Fritzl. But general street crime– no way.

    Scots-Irish are the violent whites here. The black/white crime ratio is much lower in their states, while in Wisconsin (German) and Minnesota (Scandinavian), it is the highest of all states. The difference is not in the behavior of the blacks, which is pretty consistent across the land.

  98. Levtraro says

    Nearly all of Sweden’s deaths are in nursing homes and terminal care facilities. Sweden didn’t actually avoid panic either and they thought that they wouldn’t have the capacity to save the already dying so they didn’t do anything to help them.

    Nice, let grampa and granma die sooner by virus suffocation doing nothing to help them, a great civilized country isn’t it? A lot to admire there.

  99. Reg Cæsar says

    Why, of all Slavic nations, is White Russia missing?

    The microstates’ absence is understandable, but Switzerland? Norway?

  100. Strict social distancing including lockdowns when necessary and 85% prevalence of mask wearing….European countries did not set up their goal high enough. The virus elimination strategy was not on the table.

    If everything were so simple, there would be numerous examples of successful complete suppression of viruses – and as we know, this is not the case. This is the main hope for a vaccine. If there is no vaccine, numerous tests that can detect carriers of infection at an early stage will also completely suppress the virus. This is the right way, in contrast to the clearly impossible (for European peoples) wearing masks for many months

  101. Russia became the leading supplier of chocolate to China.

    https://m.vz.ru/news/2020/7/21/1051021.html

    Russians and Chinese will be bonding with candies. This should improve approval ratings.

    Also, Russians can’t eat more than 3.3 million tons of chocolate a year. Seems weak. 62 grams per person per day.

  102. AnonFromTN says

    62 grams per person per day.

    Well, I love chocolate (especially dark), but I think I eat less on average.

    BTW, Russian ice-cream is also very popular in China. I can see why: it’s as good as French, and probably a lot cheaper. The best ice-cream available in the US is at about the level of the worst available in France.

  103. AnonFromTN says

    in contrast to the clearly impossible (for European peoples) wearing masks for many months

    My personal experience: wearing a mask outdoors in the hot summer weather in TN makes you experience one of the covid symptoms, shortness of breath.

  104. Kent Nationalist says

    That sounds very implausible. 60g of chocolate would be about 200 calories or 10% of the calorie intake per day

  105. The basis is pure schadenfreude.

    In his probably anglo mind, Russia and China would be better off fighting over Siberia so both countries can be weak enough to be picked off.

  106. To be fair, it says “confectionery articles”.

    Как сообщил президент Ассоциации предприятий кондитерской промышленности «Асконд» Сергей Носенко, объемы производства кондитерских изделий в России уже достигли 4 млн тонн, но при этом внутреннее потребление находится в пределах 3,3 млн тонн.

    So I guess it could include other candies and not only chocolate. Still, I’d eat 60 grams of sweets a day.

  107. Blinky Bill says

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQ6NuMlK5tDoWOwjc2EgzWrM1tpihy8BztMzQ&usqp.jpg

    They dislike China even more than the Japanese, if you take into account the Serb minority in Kosovo, quite an achievement!

  108. The New Zealand government gave payments to all companies and businesses big and small affected by the virus so that they could pay 80% of employees’ usual wages. I am retired, but in the case of my brother and sister, hairdresser and plasterer with employees, they both received lump-sum payments from our government for themselves and workers two days after emailing the simple application. That is what it is to be a small business owner in my country.

  109. Europe Europa says

    I’m surprised pro-China sentiment is as high as it is in Turkey considering what China is doing to the Uyghurs their ethnic kin, and also because Turkey is having to deal with the fallout and take in large numbers of Uyghur refugees.

    Maybe a lot of the pro-China sentiment in Turkey is from Kurds who instinctively back China because they perceive them to be anti-Turkic, and therefore in some way their ally?

  110. Europe Europa says

    Even though you pander and suck up to the Russian and Chinese posters here, and anti-British Americans, they still look down on you because you’re British, you’re still just an “Anglo” to them. You’re deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

  111. Philip Owen says

    Boise, Idaho do? Some time in Greeley Colorado too but Colorado is quite Californian (also spent months at a time there – Sunnyvale usually). Mostly met small businessmen in the gym.

  112. Philip Owen says

    I take it that the emotional reason is the Opium War museum. I was getting quite excited about going to Donguang to see it when I thought I was about to sell 3 million KN95 respirators a day. One of my relatives was in command of the EIC fort in Guangzhou from 1786-88 (before opium, it was tea then). I am trying to get a copy of his diaries from the period. He had a fabulous front seat on the history of the time.

    How many Chinese people are aware of their pre civil war history and tradition? There was so much dislocation and trauma. It seems to me that Chinese popular culture will be as shallow as South Korean if it is not already, just less money to show off right now.

    Woul dI be wrong in forming the impression that former officers of the PLA enjoy advantages setting up in business and getting management jobs?

  113. Alex Portnoy says

    Is there really anything better than a Chinese woman race car driver? Schwing!

    Ok, maybe a Chinese farmer wife dancing like a Fly Girl…

    https://twitter.com/ChinaDaily/status/1282464760450052096?s=20

  114. Wow, a country that really cares for its citizens.

    If not for having kids well into school here I would have taken up the frequent offer by recruiters to move there.

  115. China gets a lot of support from Muslim countries because they know the whole Uigher angle is US propaganda.

  116. The Turks have enough self-awareness to be able to compare how they treat their unwanted, seditious minorities ahem Armenians with the chinese and how they treat theirs. The fact that the CCP hasnt forced death-marched the entire Uighur population into the Gobi Desert is something that they can understand on a primal level as an incredible level of mercy and restraint. They could do far, far worse to their distant kin than just education camps considering the type of rhetoric dished out towards native Han and yet still they do not.

    Hence the respect.

  117. Europe Europa says

    But the British are always the most brutal in history, right? Britain seems to be the benchmark of brutality that every other nation is judged against.

    The usual answer from any nation charged with war crimes/crimes against humanity is “The Brits did worse”.

  118. Faggot euromasses will think what euroelites order them to think.
    And euroelites(read business) are all in wrt China.

  119. Turkey is already firmly on the hook of chinese credit.

  120. The British were not the most brutal, not by far. They are however, the most convenient simply due to the sheer number of countries they had colonized or had a foreign presence in. So most natives will default to moaning about the brits because they get more bang for their buck by complaining about a shared ex-overlord.

    They’re also a great scapegoat to blame if your country is today a shithole due to poor human capital.

  121. Kent Nationalist says

    You annoy me because you are constantly wrong about both Britain and other countries

  122. Kent Nationalist says

    There is clearly some sort of power-struggle going on over China policy, at least among British elites. It is clear from the hawkishness of many MPs and current government policy (the Huawei decision) that there is a strong anti-China faction. The press has kept up a drip drip coverage of attacking members of the elite connected to China over the last few weeks based on a book that recently came out. On the other hand, the book itself did demonstrate that there are many pro-China members of the elite (for business reasons). I don’t really understand the breakdown yet, except that obviously the more anti-Russian and pro-ZOG MPs are China hawks. There are also a large number from Kent and the South-East generally, although that might just be coincidence. China haters are currently ascendant, but I think which faction will win in the end is up in the air.

  123. For the the accusations about the left being hypocritical, what about the right? I mean the right wingers who profess admiration to China will be the first to complain about freedoms when Chinese style measures to deal with corona like mass lockdown and forced contact tracings are used, have they stopped to think deeply what is it exactly that they admire about China anyway? Or whether the aspects of China that they like could be replicated without using Chinese style measures?

  124. Since this is an HDB blog, how much could white students replicate East Asian results by just adopting East Asian habits, for example, with respect to SAT and PISA scores, could white students replicate East Asian level PISA and SAT scores by simply studying as many hours as Chinese and Korean kids do per day? Or reduce the difference to negligible levels?

  125. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    As far as I know in Finland and Norway, the death rate remained within the normal range, but in Sweden it almost doubled.

    This is all you need to know.

    Officially, Sweden lost 0.0513% its population to corona virus. Officially, Great Britain lost 0.0688% of its population to corona virus.

    So, let’s review: the country that immolated its future to stop the corona virus lost more people than the country that did not do a gay and idiotic “lockdown.”

  126. Is it not more appropriate to compare Nordic countries with each other since they have the same peoples, cultures, geographical location etc? Although compared to Norway and Finland, Sweden’s population is spread out more among a number of cities it its southern portion.

  127. I honestly don’t see why something like this is even necessary in the first place except maybe to boost national pride. Asians grind not because they need it, but because they’re in an eternal arms race against each other due to the fact that the best universities in their countries function by only take the top X candidates. A good student who studies an extra 2 hours a day for a year straight could mean the difference between going to a national university and a fast-tracked career, or stuck in his dead-end low tier city.

    But you dont have that kind of system in the west. In fact, the colleges here actively try and make that kind of strategy backfire by mandating extracurricular, leadership etc, etc
    If you copy this, all you are doing is inflating PISA and SAT scores which makes it look like that the kids are getting smarter, but in reality you are revealing the kids who are simply good at test-taking and forcing the rest to sink.

  128. Blinky Bill says
  129. It’s fairly obvious whites would produce similar – if not better – results. Its also obvious this would kill creativity and be undesirable.

    Its also a a miserable way to live. There are far more depressed and anxious Asians today than whites.

    Its also impossible now for whites. Whites “won” the competition of history – rather than a need to “prove” themselves, they get more points by faux-abasing themselves.

  130. The Right IS experiencing an extremely soft and gentle version of Chinese authoritarianism in the West today, and they are completely freaking out.

    Ron Unz supports fully importing Chinese authoritarianism, which is ironic.

    Its nice to be “for” China from the sidelines, but actually living under a Chinese style system is quite another matter.

  131. anonymous coward says

    The “Perfidious Albion” meme is hundreds of years old. (Wikipedia claims it dates back to the 13th century.)

    England is not the most brutal nation, but certainly the most immoral.

  132. The “perfid anglo” meme is more of a continental europe meme rather than the usual globohomo, anti-white memes that the 2nd/3rd world bioleninists throw around these days, which I assume that’s what Europa was projecting onto me as.

    But yes, definitely the most immoral. No-one else comes close.

  133. Europe Europa says

    Before coronavirus, I got the impression that most Western right wingers were pro-China, not least because most Western right wingers admire their harsh policies against the Uyghur Muslims. Most saw them as an ally against Islam. Most basically seemed to admire China as a strong, conservative country that values its culture and traditions and does not take any crap from Islam – basically the Western rights’ dream country.

    The anti-China mentality at the moment is more or less a direct reaction to the pandemic, the anti-Huawei stuff too. The Hong Kong protests in 2019 had lowered the perception of China a bit, especially in the Anglosphere, but it’s the coronavirus pandemic that has really caused the almost 180 reversal in the perception of China that exists now.

  134. Blinky Bill says

    2016 Election Chynaa Chynaa Chynaa Chynaa Chynaa

    https://youtu.be/RDrfE9I8_hs

    He loves Chynaa!

  135. Well, in fairness the corona hoaxers seem to sincerely believe that the true IFR is really 0.1 or even 0.02 percent, if it was REALLY that low, then just having everyone over 70 wear a mask will suffice.

  136. AnonFromTN says

    Until today I thought that Biden is demented, while Trump is not. The US order to close Chinese consulate in Houston showed that I was wrong: to the extent that it matters, both are hopelessly demented. It appears that the whole US elite has degenerated beyond mere dementia.

    Remember New Testament: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch?” (Luke 6:39); “They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch” (Matthew 15:14).

  137. Blinky Bill says

    Russia Delivers First Arctic Oil To Key Ally China

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT0rjRVanMhd1wAVrq3U7Q1f7ibhspMSAcd5A&usqp.jpg


    Ensuring a leading position in the exploration and development of the Arctic’s huge gas deposits has long been a key part of President Vladimir Putin’s overall vision to project the power of his new Russia. Not only has it allowed Russia to dramatically increase its liquefied natural gas (LNG) output – finally in line with Russia’s status as an oil and gas superpower, as Putin sees it – but it has also allowed Russia to become the key gas supplier to China in the future. With Russia’s presence in the Arctic gas sector now extremely substantial, it was only natural to expect a corollary roll-out of development of the oil sector, and this is precisely what is now underway.

    Last week saw Russia’s Gazprom Neft, the country’s third biggest oil company by output and the oil arm of state gas giant Gazprom, ship its first cargo of oil produced in the Arctic to China via the Northern Sea Route (NSR). This shipment East adds to its existing Western exports via the NSR to Europe. According to Gazprom Neft, it took 47 days to deliver a full cargo of 144,000 tonnes of sweet, light Novy Port oil from the Yamal peninsula developments to the Chinese port of Yantai on the Bohai Sea, from Russia’s north-western city of Murmansk. “Successful experience in the sale of Arctic oil in the European market and an in-depth insight of Asia-Pacific markets allow Gazprom Neft to offer Novy Port oil with a unique year-round logistics scheme to Asian partners,” said Gazprom Neft’s deputy director general for logistics, processing and sales, Anatoly Cherner, last week.

    The NSR saw its first trial voyage (from the Far-Eastern Russian port of Vladivostok via the East Siberian and Laptev Seas, to St Petersburg) by a large-sized and strengthened container ship only as recently as August 2018. Since then, its development as a key transport route for Russian hydrocarbons to the East has run alongside the earlier developments of Russia’s number two gas producer (after Gazprom), Novatek, in its Yamal-centred LNG projects, that now uses it to deliver cargoes both East and West. After the very slick management at Novatek had delivered each stage of its Yamal Peninsular (Yamal LNG) project on budget and on time – despite the full weight of U.S. sanctions being imposed on Russia in 2014 as a result of its annexation of Crimea – until the delay to the fourth train announced last year, Gazprom and Gazprom Neft were bound to follow.

    Much more is to come from Gazprom Neft, which started exporting oil produced in Russia’s Arctic exploration and development region in 2013, and which has delivered at least 40 million tons of oil – including both the ARCO (Prirazlomnoye field) and Novy Port (Novoportovskoye field) blends – to various European countries since then. In broad terms, the Novy Port oil field is one of the largest oil and gas condensate fields in the Russian Arctic, with at least 250 million tons (around 1.8 billion barrels) of reserves. Using a now proven system developed alongside Novatek – including the Prirazlomnaya oil production platform, the Arctic Gates oil terminal in the Gulf of Ob, a reinforced ice-class tanker fleet, including LNG vessels, escort icebreakers and an offshore oil shipment terminal in Murmansk – Gazprom Neft says that it can transport oil year-round (at minimal cost) to Europe.

    To the East, there are more natural constraints, as very thick ice makes deliveries outside the summer period extremely difficult for much of the time, and the costs higher than those to Europe. Previously, the Novy Port oil grade shipped last week via the NSR to China – understood to have gone to state refiner, the China National Chemical Corporation (ChemChina) – had not been exported East by Russia, but rather directed towards Europe, However, the enormous hit to the European refining sector caused demand to drop away, whilst demand in China dipped by a much degree and recovered fully much more quickly. “Although Gazprom Neft has historically sent ESPO crude to China via the pipeline, this new capability will be useful to other Russian companies for oil as well, not just Novatek for LNG,” a senior oil and gas analyst in Moscow last week. Russia’s number two oil company, Lukoil, also conducted a test crude oil delivery last September, featuring its Varandey blend. This has very similar specifications to the Novy Port blend, with the latter having an API gravity of 35 degrees and a 0.1 per cent sulphur content, whilst Varandey has an API gravity of 35-37 degrees and a sulphur content of around 0.5 per cent.

    At the same time as opening up new export routes for its oil, Gazprom Neft is working towards dramatically increasing the oil volumes from the Arctic that it can offer to the East. In 2017, it acquired the development rights to the Tazovskoye and Severo-Samburgskoye fields in the Yamalo-Nenets region, with the subsoil usage rights to the Tazovskoye block running until 2025, and those to the Severo-Samburgskoye block until 2027. The Tazovskoye field is estimated to have recoverable oil reserves of at least 72 million tonnes, condensate reserves of 4.6 million tonnes, and non-associated gas reserves of at elast 183.3 billion cubic metres. The Severo-Samburgksoye block’s estimated oil reserves are even higher, at 90.5 million tonnes. This followed the commissioning only a year before of the huge Novoportskoye oil and gas field (estimated recoverable reserves of more than 250 million tonnes of crude and condensate, as well as more than 320 billion cubic metres of gas) and the Vostochno-Messoyakhskoye oil and gas field (recoverable reserves of more than 470 million tonnes of oil and gas condensate, and 188 billion cubic metres of gas).

  138. Daniel Chieh says

    There’s a reason why the perfidious Albion gets a worse rap in China rather than Germany, France or Russia.

  139. Kent Nationalist says

    You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and drove us out as well. They are displeasing to God and hostile to all men,

    I think this verse is also relevant to contemporary America.

  140. Blinky Bill says

    In August 2017, the first ship traversed the Northern Sea Route without the use of icebreakers. According to the New York Times, this forebodes more shipping through the Arctic, as the sea ice melts and makes shipping easier. In 2018 Maersk Line sent the new “ice-class” container ship Venta Maersk through the route to gather data on operational feasibility, though they did not currently see it as commercially attractive. Escort assistance was required for three days from the Russian nuclear-powered icebreaker 50 Let Pobedy.

    The Dutch Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis projected in 2015 that the Northern Sea Route may be ice-free by 2030, earlier than the Northwest Passage or Transpolar Sea Route. A 2016 report by the Copenhagen Business School found that large-scale trans-Arctic shipping may become economically viable by 2040. In 2018 the Russian government transferred the main responsibility for the Northern Sea Route to Rosatom which through its ROSATOMFLOT subsidiary manages the Russian nuclear powered icebreaker fleet based in Murmansk.

    Glimmers of Tropical Hyperborea !!!

  141. AnonFromTN says

    I think we also should hold goy scum, including Hillary, Trump, Biden, Pompeo, etc., responsible. Not being Jews is not an extenuating circumstance.

  142. Philip Owen says

    It also implies that the population is trustworthy enough not to overwhelm the system with fake applications.

  143. Philip Owen says

    Chinese strength is real. Only the US, EU and Japan are in a position to challenge it.

    Russia and the UK are medium sized powers. Neither can do much more than pose.

  144. Blinky Bill says
  145. anonymous coward says

    Japan

    Lol.

  146. Daniel Chieh says

    Japan could challenge it as part of a coalition. On her own, she is not even food secure. However, Japan will likely insist on leading any coalition and that’s unlikely to manifest.

  147. Unless Japan activates their top secret Godzilla monster, I don’t see them fairing well against the Chinese.

    I mean, at least South Korea can defeat China in a Starcraft championship. And maybe DOTA. But Japan? Sorry, just don’t see the angle here.

  148. Blinky Bill says
  149. “Asians grind not because they need it, but because they’re in an eternal arms race against each other due to the fact that the best universities in their countries function by only take the top X candidates.”

    That is not the reason, not even the main reason. The main reason is because East Asians have a strong tradition for respect for scholar and education. For thousands of years, they are willing to sacrifice tremendously for education. Your reason could also be refuted by noticing that Asians work as hard in western world. A secondary reason (not known by many people), is that Chinese are being discriminated, not just in US, but also in many places in the world, including in Asia (e.g. Malaysia, Indonesia, etc)

    For those interested in some of the historical facts that illustrate my point, see comment #2 here:
    https://www.unz.com/article/seeking-truth-from-pisa-facts/

    For example, over 2000 years ago, Confucius already had this idea of universal, free and private education for anyone that is so well ahead of anything the West (or any civilizations) ever seen:

    “Confucius was the first in the world to found a private school over 2000 years ago, without the support of any government fund. Further, he proposed the idea (有教无类) that all people, regardless of status, class or background (even for slave), should be allowed to receive education. It was an idea that was so well ahead of time. In addition, he did not require any students to pay any tuition – everyone could pay according to what they could afford: a piece of silver, a sack of rice, some chores or nothing at all.”

  150. The anti-China mentality has deeper roots.

    China is the latest authoritatian upstart power that is making a bid for global hegemony and trying to topple the existing liberal system. We had that 3 times last century – Germany, Japan, Russia.

    This kind of thing is as old as time. China is weaker than those countries were, less skillful, less tough, less inspiring, and less willing to sacrifice. That’s appropriate for our times, when everything is declining. The fourth challenger is likely to be the weakest.

    But as sure as human nature is human nature, China has to make a bid. Of course China won’t succeed. Even if America were to implode, the last thing it would make sure to do is take China down with it. And China, having abandoned its ancient and subtle strategic tradition in favor of a loud and brash style (the style of the stupid), is making every cringe-inducing mistake possible. Every morning I wake up to another face-palm move by China 🙂

    As for China and Islam, it is pragmatic. For instance, China is busy making an alliance with Iran. I must admit I am laughing that one of the Muslim worlds premier powers and self-styled defenders of Islam is allying with a country that is literally trying to forcibly de-Muslify people in camps 🙂

    Nothing better illustrates the spiritual bankruptcy of Islam and the decline of that world, it’s disunity and weakness. (Isn’t Turkey, the other pretender to the Islamic Throne, also quite favorable to China? Lol)

    So for that edifying spectacle alone I thank China 🙂

    But realistically, China’s approach to Islam is pragmatic.

    China’s role in failing to contain this epidemic and unleashing it on the world definitely worsened feelings – as it obviously should – but are not the source of them.

    In 50 years after China’s failed bid for hegemon is but a memory all this will seem rather quaint. These things pass. They come and go.

  151. Daniel Chieh says

    This is what butthurt looks like, in prose form.

  152. Nahhhh.

    My ideal scenario is that both America and China break up. Both are monsters of the Enlightenment – both want to replace human feeling with reason and suppress freedom and spontaneity. I favor organic development in a natural fashion, a connection to the natural world, and the free, whole human being acting spontaneously.

    Of course if forced to take sides I will choose America because it has a less virulent form of the disease, and is freer – but that is not saying much, and not for long.

    In its development, I believe China explicitly modeled itself on America, the beautiful country, no?

    I think the long term trend is away from hegemonic countries and towards smaller, more localized units. Hyper-capitalism is in its death throes, and the two countries that still embrace it, China and America, are locked in a death embrace. That’s natural and expected.

    But in 50 years I don’t think any of this will be relevant.

    I know that as a Chinese with an inferiority complex you really wanted China to be hegemon, even if only for a brief time, before it too inevitably sinks beneath the sands of time. But I think you will find there are healthier ways to cure inferiority complexes, and that being on top would have went flat soon after. But that’s your personal journey up the rungs of Maslow’s Hierarchy, Chieh, where you learn there is more to life than mere survival. I think this is a journey many Chinese will soon have to make, overcoming the traumas of the last two centuries.

    I thank you for giving me a chance to further elaborate on my ideas 🙂

    Take care Daniel, and peace out.

  153. EldnahYm says

    “Perfidious Albion” is French propaganda. It was mostly inspired by the handful of English monarchs who were deposed and killed. Later on, after the term lost most of its usefulness to the French, it has become a general epithet for any loser nation who wants to moan about getting the short end of the stick in dealings with the British.

    The French of course shouldn’t be lecturing anyone about killing monarchs or diplomatic betrayals.

  154. EldnahYm says

    People are offended by your inclusion of Japan. They should instead be offended by your inclusion of the EU. The EU has no real political unity and would crumble at the first sign of conflict.

  155. Astuteobservor II says

    When you have msm of those countries blasting even Chinese medical supplies donations.

    I am surprised opinions on China in those countries aren’t lower. 24% seems high for the last half year of anti China news bombardment.

  156. German_reader says

    Britain seems to be the benchmark of brutality that every other nation is judged against.

    Where the hell did you get that from, if anything the British have a reputation for having been much less brutal than continental Europeans (French who threw people out of airplanes in Madagascar, Belgians and King Leopold’s Congo, Italians who gassed Ethiopians, and of course Germans for obvious reasons), having a sense of fair play etc.
    And why do you always whine so much about what foreigners supposedly think about Britain? Why do you even care (apart from the obnoxious people of color infesting Britain)? The correct attitude is that most foreigners are inferior to the British anyway and their opinion doesn’t matter.

  157. Astuteobservor II says

    Ehh, the press attacking China friendly politicians = whomever has control of msm in UK is strongly anti China.

    Just read the zionist comments in this very thread should give clues.

    Who controls the UK msm? I am sure it is the same people as in the USA, Australia, France and Germany.

    I want to laugh but it is just sad.

  158. Daniel Chieh says

    Its fascinating watching your efforts at engagement with reality. You do at least the “emotional excess” part of Romanticism well but, I fear, with little finesse or skill.

    At least you’ve stopped conflating separate people. A small advancement for sanity.

  159. foolisholdman says

    Does it depend on what the ‘ordinary people ‘ think? In Britain there was widespread opposition to joining the US in the war on Iraq, but it made no difference to the government decision. More to the point in this discussion would probably be a map of how pro-US the government in each country is.

  160. foolisholdman says

    I read somewhere that it was the only bombing ordered by the CIA in that war and that it was hoped that they could destroy what remained of the F-117 spy plane that the Serbs had shot down and were believed to be hiding in the Chinese Embassy.

  161. Have you lived in China? Do you know what the Chinese want? No one in China is telling the war to adopt their lifestyle while the west is always trying to impose their’s onto China.
    Or are you just mad at China for partnering with Iran and remains one the main forces standing in the way of US imperialism?

  162. AnonFromTN says

    Wasn’t it said that every nation has the government it deserves?

  163. “In the eyes of many trolls here 2×2=4 is malicious Russian propaganda, because in imperial propaganda (Sorosmatics, Trumpmatics, Baidenmatics, etc.) 2×2=5.5, maybe 7.5, but certainly not 4.”

    Oh come on, give more credit to Trump and those trolls here. Trump believes drinking detergent could kill the virus in the body. This of course is true – the virus will be killed after the person die, isn’t it? Also, Trump thinks US could overtake Huawei by going directly to 6G. That could be done by hooking two 3G gears together so that 3G + 3G = 6G. That is just simple high school algebra.

    The problem with people like you is that you lack the 4.5-dimensional chess playing skill to see these.

  164. Philip Owen says

    It won’t be a hot war. When it comes to the occassional clash over an island, Japan has a far more functional navy than Russia.

  165. China had an extremely bad century and a half – compared to that, I don’t blame Chinese people for being pleased that they are getting richer and stronger.

    Its like taking a person that is being tortured, and putting him in a filthy small room and making him work “only” 12 hours a day while imprisoning him. Such a person will obviously be grateful at his incredible “life improvement”.

    At a certain point, you probably want to stop being grateful for no longer being tortured and look at ways to move onto the next level.

    But that is an internal matter for Chinese – they have to develop at their own pace, which is different than that of other peoples.

    Being a little richer and stronger while giving up freedom may be enough to make the average Chinese today satisfied, because he’s comparing it to the horrors of the recent past. I can’t blame them for that. But for people who are much higher on Maslow’s Hierarchy of human needs, this would be a massive retrogression.

    So I feel like its really important to point that out – because there are some people in the West, who are themselves stuck on a very low level and not capable of self-actualization, who would seek to sacrifice the higher for the lower and take us back to the lower level of China, which we have advanced beyond.

    Please note I am not attacking China – it’s low level is understandable for it, but not for us, and I am eagerly awaiting for China to “level up”, though it may not happen in my lifetime.

    My second issue with China is that the level it is at – concerned with issues of brute survival and unable to give any attention to the higher things of life – makes it aggressive and expansionist, indeed desirous of hegemony. Again this is only natural – every people stuck on the psychological level of brute survival and unable to access the higher levels of life acts this way.

    This isn’t moralistic – its just that today, unfortunately, China stands for the lower levels of human psychology – or the human spirit of you will – for perfectly understandable historical reasons. So all sensitive and intelligent people of good will naturally must stand against China today.

    But ultimately, of course, we all wish China the best of luck in the long term.

    Don’t you Chinese people take the long view of history? Ah, but that is the old Chinese culture. Anyways, this moment is just a blip in history, don’t worry.

    See you on the other side.

  166. Philip Owen says

    It won’t be a hot war. Japan’s navy is more than strong enough to deal with a few skirmishes over islands. It will be a long war of economic attrition and reshoring. It has already started. In an economic war, the EU even without the UK is still gaining strength.

    Between 2007 and 2014 the EU and Japan stagnated due to high oil prices. Those times are over. The oil importers are the strong players now. (Good news for India and Turkey too). The EU has 100m poorer people in the East to boost its growth with catch up policies. There is no London in the middle sucking out the blood to hold it back.

  167. Reading through that tract, I can safely say even though the holocaust didn’t happen the way they claim it did, I can now fully understand why Hitler had to gas the jews and the people like them.
    I’ll now be advising everybody I know against pulling a Schindler when the time draws near.

  168. That is chutzpah. Arguing that the West today is in a morally superior plane. Hahah

  169. AnonFromTN says

    The problem with people like you is that you lack the 4.5-dimensional chess playing skill to see these.

    Absolutely. Imperial politicians are playing 33-D chess. But it has no connection with our pedestrian 3-D reality. So, in the dimensions 20 and above the US wins, while losing miserably in 3-D.

  170. AnonFromTN says

    When it comes to the occasional clash over an island, Japan has a far more functional navy than Russia.

    The only problem is, after the first 30 min of WWIII the only thing remaining of Japan would be parts of its Navy.

  171. I didn’t say the West is morally superior. This isn’t s moral issue.

    The West is, like China, not in a good place right now, especially America. That is why I said above that America and China both seem to be the “bad guys” in today’s world.

    But the West is dealing with a different problem. Our problem is how to move past the low-level psychology of brute survival towards higher levels on the human need scale. But we are addressing this issue – not in a very good way, I must admit, but we are dealing with it.

    Major, major changes to our civilization are going to have to happen before we can “level up”, so to speak. Most of the stuff you see going on in the West today has a “subtext” – the surface, BLM and racism and whatnot, is relatively meaningless.

    Now, because we are faced with a difficult challenge some people want to slide back into the relatively easier Chinese zone, but we’ve been there already.

    China is in a different place. It’s gone from an extremely high level on the human needs scale in the early 19th century, to the lowest possible level until the late 20th century, to where it is now – climbing out of the lowest possible to a still low level.

    Its unrealistic to expect China to be concerned with “self-actualization” or anything spiritual for the time being.

    But it would also be a tragedy if the West failed its test and slid back to your level – I don’t think that will happen.

    As I said above, none of this is moralistic – that’s for children. It’s just psychology.

    Eventually China will also be faced with the test of moving up – in the meantime we just have to be vigilant and to some extent quarantine China so it doesn’t drag the world down to its level (no, not using a corona reference). But eventually you will make it along with all of humanity.

  172. “This is how you lie and bullshit with a straight face.”

    The hypocrisy, duplicity, self-righteousness and condescension of the troll is quite eye-opening indeed.

  173. Levtraro says

    Yes but, when I lived in NZ one of my mates in the football team worked for social security and his job was to spy on and control recipients of benefits. He would use all kinds of tricks to catch free-riders even to the point of serious harassment of deserving recipients. I was not impressed. Maybe it was just this guy.

  174. Daniel Chieh says

    All things are possible. You might even stop being an interminable bore and hypocrite vomiting your delusions and projecting your clear personal issues upon us.

    Its unlikely, of course.

    But one can hope for it.

  175. Korenchkin says

    Kosovar is a useless term
    There are Kosovo Albanians and Kosovo Serbs (also Gorani and Gypsies, but they aren’t really in the focus)

  176. Korenchkin says

    In what reality can Japan use it’s navy to violently seize islands without getting missile’d into oblivion by either Russia or China?

  177. Daniel Chieh says

    I do generally agree that any conflict will be more economic than kinetic, though there will be a kinetic component. And I also see why you posted the entities you mentioned – all of them have strong and high quality manufacturing bases which make them qualified for the conflicts of the world going forward.

    Both of them have challenges in executing along those lines, however. The EU has political challenges and is highly unlikely to truly manifest as a political union, but I’ll let others with more experience speak of it. Japan, though, has a strangled resource base for raw inputs(even food) and has been even less capable of providing for itself over the last few decades, this is coupled with not only a shrinking work force, but also a workforce that has been allocating itself to the higher status and better paid work of office workers and manufacturing workers, further decreasing the percentage of workers engaged in basic resource production. This would be fine if they had an active import policy, but Japan runs a protectionist trade regimen and thus its companies pay a premium(sometimes up to 5x) to get the same inputs as others.

    This positions them poorly for the politics of economic attrition.

  178. Even on cultural or “self realization” planes how do you know that China is at a low level? Maybe people living in rural China are studying ancient texts and living at peace while people in Finland are grinding away at their jobs and consuming copious amounts of alchohol. To make these sweeping generalization is what I meant by chutzpah. But hey it’s your pet idea so you do you

  179. I’ve been to China. I’ve seen it first hand. People are not happy there.

    Its also reflected in the policies of the Chinese government and in the documented attitudes and habits of Chinese people (Tiger Mom, Asian grind, nationalism, focus on money, bullying others for no reason), etc.

    But at least you are not defending the attitudes I am describing, but are claiming they may characterize Finland more than China – for people who deny these are bad things there is no hope.

    Obviously there are exceptions, but generalizations can be made about where China is as a whole today.

    And again, its understandable – a century of trauama is not going to create people who know how to live life well on the higher levels. It will create angry and aggressive people with low self-esteem preoccupied with the lower levels of life.

    So we can all be sympathetic to China but also accept that we have to deal sternly with her – for her own sake as well.

    And of course, there are many wonderful Chinese even within mainland China who also stand opposed to the dominant culture and are on a much higher level – such people will tend to agree with me.

  180. Not Raul says

    That’s a dumb excuse to bomb an embassy of a nuclear power.

  181. AnonFromTN says

    That’s a dumb excuse to bomb an embassy of a nuclear power.

    Alas, US actions after 1991 tend to be dumb and keep getting dumber every year. US order to close Chinese consulate in Houston is the most recent proof of that.

  182. Do Indian brahmins and upper castes have higher IQs than Han Chinese and Japanese and Koreans? Indian math is more advanced than Chinese math, and prior to WW2 the most famous no European mathematicians were all Indian. As for math Olympiads, they are really a retreading of things previously learned, rather than about new things.

  183. Grahamsno(G64) says

    And the biggest joke is that they pretend to be Confucian gentlemen while they sip Tiger Penis soup.

  184. Grahamsno(G64) says

    Do Indian brahmins and upper castes have higher IQs than Han Chinese and Japanese and Koreans

    Brahmins are a teeny weeny minority in India whereas the Han are a billion strong with a phenomenally high average IQ, so no contest. The world is slowly waking up to the reality that they’re dealing with the ‘Han Hive’ – a gifted bunch of pragmatists who invented world changing stuff like paper and paper money and now control manufacturing, now they are making a bid for Hegemony, if they had a semblance of democracy I wouldn’t have cared like who cares that South Korea and Japan are great industrial powers, but the Han Hive is a different beast and Trump’s the first US President to confront the Hive, I’m with him, all should be with him in confronting the Han Hive.

  185. Grahamsno(G64) says

    Dear sir metaphysics doesn’t work with the Han hive, otherwise the Nobel and Fields medal lists would be full of them, they own the mathematics olympiads but cannot step up the plate to the next level because they’re incapable of metaphysics.

  186. Do the math Olympiads actually translate to any actual feats in the real world besides useless flag waving? European sports cars continue to be on the top spot in the real world despite doing poorly in such competitions, and formula 1 engineering leadership continues to be dominated by native Europeans, with the Asians just occasionally supplying the engines and then being told to get out of the way, although even here Europeans have a lot of input.

  187. Grahamsno(G64) says

    Do the math Olympiads actually translate to any actual feats in the real world besides useless flag waving?

    They do two American gold medalists went on to win Fields medals, the greatest mathematical achievement of our era the proof of the Poincaire conjecture was proved by Grigori Perelman (Russian Jewish) who had also won the the gold medal in an Olympiad.

  188. Local elites in China, send their money and children to live in the UK, Canada, USA.

    At the same time, they produce for the population a lot of patriotic media, as this directs some of the population’s anger (to the extent it might exist) to more “safe” targets: external enemies (instead of rulers themselves).

    It’s better if any angry sentiments of street people in China is directed onto Japan or England, for events of previous centuries, than if they would direct the anger onto the rulers.

    This is not a paradox, but a common pattern of 21st century, in lot of countries at similar economic level. It’s just a very typical pattern – and something similar often existed in other epochs as well. The difference of 21st century, is the amount of mobility, means rulers can send their children to live in supposed enemy countries.

    Here was a documentary on YouTube about how Chinese people move their money into Vancouver in Canada.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZs2i3Bpxx4

  189. Grahamsno(G64) says

    Deng Xiaoping is seated in his car and reading a newspaper when his driver interrupts him to say: “Comrade, we’re at a crossroads. The sign says turn left for Communism, turn right for Capitalism. Which way should I go?” Deng says: “No problem, just signal left and turn right!”

  190. While I’m against the CCP and those who aggressively support it without nuance (many on this site), I would prefer not to insult the Chinese people itself.

    I think they have the capacity to be a great people, and will be again. Their low level now is historically understandable.

    The fact that China is so clumsy and awkward at making its bid for global supremacy is a god sign – it means power politics is not the true strength of their civilization. They will fail, as all these authoritarian powers inevitably do (you would think there is a historical lesson there or something), and transition to a healthier and more normal phase.

    India and China once had a great cultural exchange – or more accurately, India had a huge and positive influence on Chinese culture – and I for one hope that returns.

    The current regime in China is Legalist – historically, Legalist regimes are the shortest lived in Chinese history. This is just a blip.

  191. Blinky Bill says
  192. showmethereal says

    “I think most Chinese”…. yeah? did you take a poll??? fact is a tiny minority think about the parts of northeast China that are now part of Russia since the population was never large comparatively… Aside from the fact the border was formally settled in modern times – not during their century of humiliation.

  193. showmethereal says

    LOLOL. Edrogan uses the Uighur terrorists at his own behest. They are some of his front line fighters in Syria and I wouldn’t be surprised if he sent some to Libya now.

  194. showmethereal says

    Your biblical quotation is very apt. Even more considering both sides (yes a lot of Dems too) claim to be on God’s side.

  195. showmethereal says

    They are rich people… They want to keep their money. They get taxed less in US-UK-Canada. Though now China is doing what the US does and is going to tax foreign income of Chinese citizens… So this will most likely be changing. If those people renounce their Chinese citizenship – they lose the original source of their wealth. So it will be interesting going ahead.

  196. “Aside from the fact the border was formally settled in modern times…”

    Shhhhh… don’t tell “Europe Europa”. His wish has been secretly granted. Due to territorial dispute, there was actually a severe fight in the China-Russia border recently (late June, 2020). It is not clear who invaded who first. The border fence, markers and even the camera that took the video were all destroyed. Because of that, unfortunately, we don’t know who won the eventual fight or the casualty. Sad but true!

    See the video yourself to believe it:

    https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV11K411H7p4?from=search&seid=2944611154661289905

  197. showmethereal says

    I fail to understand your logic. European sports cars still do very well in racing.

  198. showmethereal says

    European sports cars still win many races… False analogy

  199. So, let’s review: the country that immolated its future to stop the corona virus lost more people than the country that did not do a gay and idiotic “lockdown.”

    And countries where people conscientiously wore masks and centralized quarantine carried on with no excess deaths or significant long-term restrictions on life whatsoever.

    And as it happens, it’s not like Sweden’s economy even came out any better for it: https://theweek.com/speedreads/924238/sweden-literally-gained-nothing-from-staying-open-during-covid19-including-no-economic-gains

  200. Furthermore, given how many of the dead in Sweden are people in terminal care homes where admitted people have one month of expected life left, these are essentially natural deaths.

    And it is counterbalanced by cases where people died decades before they would have otherwise.

    Average age of death in e.g. Italy may be around 80, but 10 years is the expected life expectancy at that age: https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1266069040826548229