I don’t really have much to add beyond what I said on RT Crosstalk, and what Alexander Mercouris wrote here and here.
The month long reprieve Trump had gained with his Syrian human sacrifice is over, and the Swamp creatures are back, baying for his blood with renewed zeal.
What is most remarkable, and cannot be stressed enough, is that there is still no evidence of Trump having colluded with Russia.
But no matter. So far as the MSM is concerned the Russian Occupation Government already rules the White House through its intermediates, Ambassador Sergey Kislyak and TASS photojournalists. Trump spilled all of “our greatest ally’s” secrets to them personally and now that means America’s European allies are no longer going to share intelligence with them (according to one anonymous “European official,” anyway). Because the details of Islamic State plans for laptops on international flights is the sort of arcane knowledge that can overturn the global geopolitical chessboard. /s
The firing of Comey was obviously an act of petty revenge against him for taking down Flynn and getting too deep into the secrets of ROG. No matter that Flynn’s connections with Russian state structures remain entirely speculative, while it is openly known that he acted a paid up lobbyist for Turkey. And it obviously can’t have a more mundane explanation, such as Comey’s lack of interest in shoring up the incessant leaking that is incapicitating the Trump administration.
This is all so transparently obvious. But we are living in an era when a woman who by her own admission has her mind destroyed by hard drugs and believes Putin murdered Andrew Breitbart and funds BlackLivesMatter gets op-eds in The New York Times.
This is the fake reality that fake news has created, but with enough time and “manufactured consent,” fake reality has a way of becoming “actual existing” reality.
Here are a few facets of this reality. As of this week, for the first time, a near majority of Americans – 48% to 41% – want to see Trump impeached according to the latest poll from Public Policy Polling.
PredictIt is now giving 25% odds that Trump will be impeached in 2017. This is highest than at any other time this year, even thoug there is now just a bit more than six months to go.
As of the time of writing, it is giving implied odds of about 30% for Trump not being President by the end of the year, and 45% odds of not being President by the end of 2018.
I suspect these figures are plausible. While removing Trump from office via impeachment is probably unrealistic – for that, 2/3 of the Senate will also have to vote to convict him (for what?) – Trump Derangement Syndrome has become so endemic that it theatenss to make the country essentially ungovernable. This could give establishment Republicans the excuse to pressure Trump to resign (perhaps with the threat of a 25th Amendment coup, as Ross Douthat has recently suggested).
Obviously I wish Trump the best of luck against the Swamp golems but things really aren’t looking good for him.
The French establishment was long ago prepared for a Le Pen and so they managed to spit her out before she got into the belly of the Beast. Trump was too famous, too rich, too clever and too shameless for the American establishment to catch in time. Oh how they tried! But he’s now in their collective belly. They’re now trying to vomit him out.
Many months ago I thought Trump was like a political vermifuge. I think that now more than ever. That’s why we get all this moaning and groaning from the Beast. Either they manage to expel him or he leaves Washington shaking in a cold sweat on the floor but in much better health. Lots of tears, drama and trauma coming either way.
I laughed when David Swanson (8.04) said there were racists in Charlottesville yesterday with torches “for Robert E Lee and slavery apparently” (ie Richard Spencer and co).
We need to get the Narrative out as to why Jewish Globalists hate Russia so much.
Most Americans know NOTHING of what happened in the 90s.
If the looting of Russia in the 90s became better-known, then people can connect the dots as to why globalist Jews hate resurgent Russia so much.
The problem is not that Russia is evil. The problem is that US is in the clutch of Evil Globalists who want to use US power to destroy Russia and what it stands for.
That is why there is such hostility against Russia.
Of course, there are now many non-Jewish Democrats who are bleating about Russia. For them, it’s just a way to get Trump. They will grab at anything. Otherwise, Russia means nothing to them.
I’d say one of the biggest stumbling blocks for the current Russian government’s image in the Anglophone West is the belief “Putin kills journalists”. I’ve seen this come up more times than I can name.
Yeah I liked that too. It sure shows the value of spectacles and political stunts when done well. In a way, what’s remarkable is that their protest was so remarkable. It shows how accustomed everyone has become to White men being absolutely supine or otherwise cucky.
I don’t quite understand how your accent is thicker than Dmitri Babich’s after living in the US & UK since adolescence, but I suppose Russian-expats are an insular bunch. Looking bored and uncomfortable during your co-panelist’s talks of racism and sexism talks there hehe.
Where you denigrating Sputnik International or Sputnikipogrom earlier?
Can you really blame any sane person from wondering just what the hell is really going on in Russia, when this Wikipedia entry actualy includes a total of over 365 journalists killed in Russia from 1993 – 2009? All the stats are based on info gleaned from the website, ‘journalists in Russia’ https://web.archive.org/web/20110726211634/http://journalists-in-russia.org/journalists/index/incident:homicide/job:director see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
I really don’t think the Dems have the votes to impeach Trump. As you correctly noted, it takes a full 67 votes in the Senate to remove a president from office. That’s never once happened in US history. Remember that Trump’s voters are still, as a rule, fiercely loyal to him. Any Republicans who sign on to the lynching party will be in serious primary-trouble in 2018. Besides, if the public starts to believe that the investigation, etc., have turned into a partisan witch-hunt, the Dems are risking a serious backlash if Trump survives the impeachment ordeal. Remember what happened with Clinton in the 90s? His highest public-approval scores ever occurred after he survived impeachment.
It’s called a “crime wave”, started already under Gorbachev (why is he not transliterated Gorbachov?), reaching its peak under Yeltsin, initially staying elevated under Putin, then slowly dropping since his first term. The number of journalists murdered is now around 1-2 per annum.
I think its more simple than that, they need an enemy or how else can one justify the billions spent on the security apparatus ? Picking Muslims or China as an enemy is not good for them because it causes all kinds of PC problems.
The obvious difference is that Clinton had almost all the media behind him, Trump has almost all the media against him. So what matters now is how much mind shaping power the oldstream media has now, I would like to be an optimist here and say that they have lost their power compared to what they used to have. There is however the now a big push to censor big sites like Facebook or Youtube, of course in the name of “hate speech” or protecting us from some contrived threats, this by far the biggest threat now, if they can shut down what people say there then they are back to where they used to be.
And even more importantly, they have money, lots of money.
Why do you constantly spread propaganda? This is Unz, too, not plebbit, so no one cares.
No, if Russia had remained in the hands of Jewish oligarchs like Berezhovsky and was rum amok with homomania, this anti-Russian hysteria would not exist.
Names, dates, places are to be swept aside under the rubric of ‘propaganda’?…Give me a break!
Things have indeed improved in this area as over the last few years, but there are still plenty of suspicious murders committed during Putin’s tenure that will continue to haunt the man for the rest of his life.
Good point. Clinton also had Israel by his side. Does Trump? At least one commentator over at CounterPunch thinks that Netanyahoo now has it in for Trump: http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/18/fast-and-furious-now-theyre-really-gunning-for-trump/
Bernd, over at Moon of Alabama, is also very pessimistic about the situation: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/05/the-special-council-investigation-will-be-bad-for-trump.html
I confess it could go either way; but in order for things to go well, Trump has to really get his head in the game and quit making so many boo-boos.
I call it a good start.
Take a closer look at the Wikipedia list – most of those journalist deaths are plain homicides (the correlation with journalist murders and homicide rates makes the case).
There are rumors even in the US about “Clinton bodybags.” Seth Rich would undoubtedly be touted as a victim of the Putin regime had he been murdered in Moscow.
Good to see you on “in the flesh” as it might be on CrossTalk, AK.
He would’ve been okay if he had some sort of base, preferably organized base: the unions, some strong branch of organized religion, something. One man no man.
FDR had something like this too (“They are unanimous in their hate for me–and I welcome their hatred”), but he had support. To have support, one needs consistency and a simple, clear message. This guy, Trump, got nothing so far. The wall? No visas for Muslims? No one cares. He goes too wide too shallow. Good for getting elected, bad for getting a strong following.
yes – the oligarchs killed scores of journalists during their rise and the oligarchs who did it are now paying shills to blame Putin for what the oligarchs did
He has a base – admittedly not an organized one.
The media are creating the conditions for civil war – or at least non-violent autiste retaliation against the media – which would be easy enough – think “Fight Club.”
‘Most’ but not all. There are plenty of cases that fall under the the category of ‘politically motivated’ murders. There’s always that nasty episode involving Anna Politkovskaya, that goes unresolved, as do so many others…
Although far fewer assasinations were attributed to the Clinton team, I wouldn’t doubt that some of the murers were indeed made with the blessings at the top. The Clintons, like Putin, have many skeletons in their closets. Why defend Putin? I’m not defending the Clintons!
Calm down, Mikola. You made your point, everybody is greatly impressed, your work is done here.
Local politics. Journalists were employed by contenders to dig up dirt on their rivals.
You’re welcome!
The people who have been saying for years that “Putin kills journalists” have since shown themselves to be so contemptuous of fact-finding and honesty that I believe their claims now much less than I might have, say, back around the time of the Sochi Olympic Games.
My point was that the claim about murdering journalists is out there but I don’t know of anyone who’s gone through the list to refute them.
Okay, okay, I get it. All of the oligarchs in Russia from 1993 to 2009 were involved in ordering the deaths of dozens of journalists, except for the head oligarch himself, Vladimir Putin. You have to admit though, that somebody out there did a really good job in framing Putin for at least one of these murders (Anna Politkovskaya), for the brunt of her well researched and written scathing attacks were directed towards this former KGB officer. And this individual (or group) must have been really good, because to this day ‘ “The sponsor of Anna’s murder has not been found”
Why would Putin or his inner circle need to kill a journalist or minor opposition figure when they’ve held such a strong hand playing the democratic and constitutional game? The only reason would be if a dangerous secret would die with that person. In other words, if that person continuing to talk would throw a vital project off the rails. That seems to have been the case with Dr. David Kelley in the UK but was it the case with Anna Politkovskaya or Boris Nemtsov? If not, it would make more sense for Putin to continue to be a good sport with his critics. That is clearly how he presents himself and he has given us ample evidence over the years to back up the claim. Just look at the many times he’s taken hostile questions from members of the media. If he killed journalists to “send a message”, would he repeatedly send the opposite message too? If the many instances of Putin being a good sport were rigged, wouldn’t it become obvious? Or is this 4D chess too?
Maybe his game wasn’t as ‘democratic’ in the early 2000’s as it is now, when his grip on power was still consolidating? If the order wasn’t given from the Putin camp, then from where? Politkovskaya’s main harangue was directed straight at Putin, and she was becoming quite the international author and figure. But then again, I’m pretty sure that Putin wouldn’t stoop to any such perverse methods in silencing his opposition figures, being clearly of a much higher moral mold, separating him from the other irascible oligarchs whom he was trying to control 🙂
If the order wasn’t given from the Putin camp, then from where?
Looking at her Wikipedia page I’d say she could have developed many enemies. “The assassination occurred on Vladimir Putin’s birthday, and some people noted the coincidence” says Wikipedia*. This reminds me of Boris Nemtsov’s very photogenic assassination. These sorts of cute, too perfect touches make me wonder if the killers were enemies, rather than friends of Putin? The governing class of the West has a downright occult belief in the power of “iconic” images and narrative hooks such as these. I think being a famous opponent of Putin can be bad for one’s health but not in the way one might think. Killing an opponent of Putin in a colourful way is a great way to harm Putin himself. In other words, sacrifice a pawn to put Putin into check.
I don’t know much about Russia but I do know the West is currently run by people who believe passionately in the low cult of the Narrative and the Optics of things. It’s actually one of the interesting differences between East and West right now, from what I can tell. Russians and other former East Bloc people don’t seem to have adopted this low cult yet or, at the least, they’re decades “behind” our high priests. But that’s another topic.
I don’t know, but if I were looking for a road map to begin an indictment of Putin for being behind the Politkovskaya murder, I couldn’t find a better place to start than the cited piece that you’ve provided:
Alexander Litvinenko’s death was also far more colourful than necessary. Was he another pawn who was worth more to Putin’s enemies by dying an interesting death in downtown London than by remaining alive and being another flunky to the exiled oligarchs? I’ll agree that being a vocal opponent to Putin is dangerous work but perhaps not in the way you mean.
Fair enough, Anatoly, but do we then attribute every death of Soviet/post-Soviet journalists due to car accident, disease, fall on the ice to Putin’s hit squads? It’s Wikipedia, they’re compromised. Hundreds of reporters murdered? I find it difficult to believe especially because it’s Wiki.
I find offensive and false especially because the WashPost ignores Seth Rich, defends Hillary on her server, especially because of the manufactured “scandals” blaring forth from WashPost. Their entire narrative is bullshit now. They’ve overplayed, over reached and it’s clear now that it’s all false, they simply try to hard to push that bullshit up the hill.
God damn Jeff Bezos, the WashPost and everyone that enables them by ordering from Amazon.
Litvinenko left Russia in 2000, and never went back. Politovskaya was shot in 2006. How exactly was he “investigating”? By reading newspapers, talking to friends? How much value can there possibly be in that? Especially, since by all accounts he was a bodyguard/enforcer and no Hercule Poirot.
Let’s turn this around and ask if any of these ‘suspicions’ would get any publicity if you would have similar level of “proof” in the West. There are plenty of Western personalities who have died under suspicous circumstances, these things happen all the time everywhere – and always have. Some could be what they seem, some could be pure accidents, some could be false flag or personal enemies.
Without some facts and rational proof the endless ‘calendar coincidences’, or ‘he was a known enemy’, or piling together unrelated events and playing with statistics without any context, none of that is ever taken seriously when someone tries it in the West. The real answer is that when we don’t know it means just that: we don’t know. Both in Russia or in the West.
In good detective stories you apply same rules to all, one actor (in this case Russia or Putin) cannot be apriori more suspicous and thus any accusation is fair. That is how you lose standards. Apply what you said about Russia – pointless minutia and no actual facts – to any suspicous death in the West (Robin Cook?), and tell me if anyone would take it seriously. If not, why should we take your hunch, discomfort or suspicion seriously in Russia? Same rules need to apply.
Not even an enemy, but just a “Putin’s critic”:
Russian journalist and Putin critic dies after being beaten up by strangers
As if there’s a single person in Russia – or, for that matter, in the whole world – who hasn’t been, at one time or another, to one degree or another, Putin’s critic. I know I have. And so, since nearly everyone in this universe is Putin’s critic, Mr Putin clearly is responsible for nearly every death; tens of thousands of corpses every day.
And, of course, everyone who needs to be portrayed as doubleplusungood is “Putin’s close ally”. It’s so hilarious, really.
Litvinenko was a Berezovsky flunkee, and therefore not a reliable source.
Be that all as it may, the fact remains that Litvinenko, on his own deathbed, pointed his accusatory finger straight at Putin for his own death and Politkovaskaya’s by previous implication. And then there’s the opinion of former Russian spy Oleg Gordievsky, who no doubt had a strong feeling for how things operated in the murky world of Putin’s Russia (also taken from the citation provided by Cagey Beast):
Who would have thought back in 2014 that we’d all be here? Back around the time of the Sochi Olympic Games we already knew the western media loved to throw mud at Putin and Russia but did any of us think it would go this far? The coup in Kiev; the blind eye turned on genuine neo-Nazi private militias carrying out massacres; the failed attempt to bring Donbass to heel; the tank battles and artillery duels; Givi & Motorola and all the rest. Then came the Trump hysteria that has already surpassed what Tom Clancy and Dan Browne could together come up with after a month of sweat lodge sessions and magic mushroom journeys. Just stand back from the perspective of 2014 and look in wonder at it all.
Right. I believe the Russian government made a huge mistake in February 2914: it showed weakness.
Had it acted decisively, by, say, sending a division of paratroopers to Kiev, to restore the legitimate government and law and order, everything would’ve been fine. And there would’ve been only minimal and quickly fading amount stink from the west, similar to the aftermath of the the N.Ossetia crisis of 2008. Weakness invites aggression.
Yes and, ironically, the alt-right mantra that “they’re going to call you a Nazi anyway” applies in this case. They’re going to call Putin the new Hitler anyway, so he might as well have intervened to keep actual neo-Nazis out of government in Kiev.
They can’t stop. Otherwise they won’t meet their norm for trolling and won’t get their hryvnias from i-army.org. Or maybe they are simply mentally ill and too obsessed with “peremoga-ing” Russia.
It would not.
In 2008, the Russian response was quite limited. Just like in 2014.
What you are suggesting is far from limited.
The mistake in 2014 was not acting more decisively in Donbass and letting Kiev recover.
Nah, I disagree. What I’m suggesting would be a very limited involvment: restoring the legitimate government (the president and the majority party), and enforcing the ‘agreement on settlement’, signed on Feb 21 by the opposition leaders, Yanukovych, and the foreign ministers of Germany and Poland.
You are talking about restoring a government in another country and enforcing an agreement that was not even co-signed by Russian representatives.
That is an intervention and not a limited one which would face a lot of opposition in Kiev.
I remember Putin and and other senior men in his government showed barely concealed contempt for the ousted President Yanukovich. Maybe Yanukovich had made clear to them he had no backbone or Putin and his team decided he was too much of a cleptocrat to bet the farm on.
In Russia you have freedom of the oppressed who have suffered from the press and then they decided to oppress the press to the point that they even managed to lay some of them to rest. In the US you have freedom of the press, even though nobody can tell when did the press ever fought against anybody – and if they didn’t how the hell did they won their freedom. So in the US the press is free mostly from the constraints that telling the truth imposes.
Like I said, Yanukovych signed an agreement with the opposition leaders. The only opposition to enforcing this agreement could come from the Right Sector and such. Yeah, those would have to be eliminated, mostly by Ukrainian security forces. All they (security forces) needed was to feel support from their own government.
Some western regions would’ve probably rebelled, and hell with them; I’d just let them go their merry way, who needs them.
Instead of which there was a fake rebellion provoked by intruding Russian nationalists in two Eastern regions with large minority Russian populations. Said regions are now toxic to all sides and the people get to pay the price for all the Russian imperialist bombast.
There was a perfectly genuine uprising, all over southern and eastern (former) Ukraine. I was following it from the beginning, and there is no doubt whatsoever. It was crushed by neo-nazi terror on most of the territory (most notably: the incident of burning 48 people alive in Odessa), but it’s still bubbling under the surface.
What will you make of this video, does it strike you as fake? Watch the whole thing:
There was a perfectly genuine uprising, all over southern and eastern (former) Ukraine. I was following it from the beginning, and there is no doubt whatsoever. It was crushed by neo-nazi terror on most of the territory (most notably: the incident of burning 48 people alive in Odessa), but it’s still bubbling under the surface.
What will you make of this video, does it strike you as fake? Watch the whole thing:
Trump took a huge risk putting himself forward from a standing start and then as a contender for the nomination incensing not just liberals, but the Republican establishment by calling immigrants rapists and worse, and promising to exclude Muslims. Had he become Republican candidate then lost, a Clinton administration would have come after him if he (Obama’s admin did it to the Tea Party donors). It was insane to think he would have withdrawn before the election and brought all that on himself. Yet there were stories about him withdrawing. A well known Irish/British bookmaker actually paid out on Trump losing so confident were they that he would. The odds tell you nothing. And even if he wanted to, Trump cannot call it quits, because it would not be quits. There is no one who could call off the dogs, and therefore Trump would be giving up his only protection against attempts to take his liberty (possible) and his family fortune (certainly) away. Without the presidency, Trump, would be targeted by the FBI ( which no one can call off) becoming the most investigated person in the history of the country. The entire domestic counterintelligence apparatus plus the IRS would be on him ( and don’t forget the myriad civil Bill Clinton style cases which would proliferate). He would be at the mercy of judges–who would have none.
No, Trump would have to be removed, but he is now invulnerable due to the welding the most unspeakably powerful weapon in the universe. I speak of the Ark Of the Covenant. No, not the agreement with God, but a far more formidable ally, one he has been assiduously courting for a while.
Becoming the first sitting President to pray at the Wailing wall has confirmed that Trump and the Israeli leadership are as one . Dershowitz: Trump Is Saying and Doing All the Right Things in Israel.
It is true that a junior diplomat spoke out of turn on who owns the Wailing wall, but the State Department and political establishment are wedded to the two state solution. Trump has been leaving them out in the cold and without resources. Trump needs to pay attention to what the established methods of diplomacy can give, whatever his own objectives might be.
Now that an unspoken carte blanche on the occupied territories future has secured an unbreakable bond with Israel, Trump can rest easy. I expect he will sleep most of the token trip to Saudi Arabia, and leave it to the State department to explain that Arabs have lost the West Bank, but still be able to count on US assistance in their war with Persia in Syria and elsewhere.
Ross Gregory Douthat of the New York Times must live with his eyes firmly shut to not understand that Trump is now impregnable. Douthats’ opinion were more influential than Dershowitzs’ once but Ross doesn’t realise that those days are long gone.
“It was crushed by neo-nazi terror on most of the territory (most notably: the incident of burning 48 people alive in Odessa)”.
So you didn’t follow it. You swallowed a one sided propaganda spin without question. Dimitry Kisleyov would be proud of you.
You are right man. Only rebellions sponsored by US are real. Those sponsored by Russia have to be fake. When will these people finally get it?
Oh dear. I must say, the current state of bandera-hasbara trolling appears to be nearly catastrophic. Each of the two most recent ukro-trolls here is, unfortunately, a pitiful one one-trick pony, clinically incapable of even the slightest deviation off the script. It’s tragic, really.
How cute. The resident Communist fool believes whatever fairytales he hears from Russian or Russophile media.
Rebellion “sponsored by US” involved no US troops and no stream of US weapons. It brought to power the exact same political parties who had won the popular vote in the most recent national elections.
Rebellion sponsored by Russia had Russians in key roles (main military commander Girkin, PM Borodai and one of 2 deputy Prime ministers so 2/3 of executive leaders – Russian veterans of the Transistria project), about 20% of troops, and massive stream of arms and military advisers.
Hmmm..which one is more “fake” than the other?
You mean Svoboda leader Tiahnybok? Ironically I’ll bet you do not consider his former ally and ideological twin National Front not to be neo-Nazis.
When they are opposed to Russia they are Neo-Nazis but when they are allies they are patriots or nationalists, according to the script believed by naive Westerns nationalists.
http://www.ukrainebusiness.com.ua/news/345.html
Svoboda and France’s National Front agree on collaboration
KYIV, Nov. 23, 2009 (UBO/Ukrainian News) — The Pan-Ukrainian Union Svoboda (Freedom) party and France’s National Front have agreed on collaboration, Svoboda deputy chairman Andriy Mokhnyk told journaists today. The parties signed a collaboration agreement on November 22, Mokhnyk said. In particular, the agreement supposes collaboration to prevent and oppose irregular migration. Svoboda leader Oleh Tiahnybok is now in France for working meetings with representatives of European nationalist parties, specifically with Jean-Marie Le Pen, the head of France’s National Front. The Svoboda party will join a union of European nationalist political forces as an associate member, Mokhnyk added. The developing relationship between Tiahnybok and Le Pen, the b?te noir of French politics for many years, suggests that Tiahnybok might be considering a campaign similar to the National Front politics that have gained Le Pen international notoriety for his anti-immigrant politicking in a country that has large and sometimes unruly North African, Indochinese, Basque and Caribbean minority populations.
Correct. He was also genuinely unpopular. Helping a popular ally sweep away troublesome opposition is one thing; keeping an unpopular puppet in power over a country of 45 million, half of whom had engaged in a popular uprising against him, is a much more significant operation.
“You swallowed a one sided propaganda spin without question”. Is it swallowing “propaganda spin” to watch raw video footage from the Odessa massacre that clearly shows them beating and shooting people trying to escape the flames? How is that “spin”? Is there a good reason for killing people as they try to escape a fire but I’m too spun to see it?
The reality is that two armed mobs slashed. In Donetsk, where pro-Ukrainians are outnumbered, the clashes were won by the pro-Russians. In Odessa the reverse was the case. The pro-Russians were outnumbered and defeated on the streets, and in a tragic miscalculation chose to hide in a building from which they engaged in mutual molotov cocktail-throwing with the pro-Ukrainian mob outside. Not a good idea when one is in an enclosed area.
This was spun by Russian propaganda as a deliberate, one-sided calculated massacre of unarmed innocents by evil Nazis. This fairytale was then believed by some naive westerners, for the simple reason that in their world anything opposed to the story in the western media must be true.
Video shows not only some people from the mob outside beating those who were trying to escape, but also people from mob outside, once they saw what was happening, trying to save the people inside. They brought scaffolding up to the building, etc.
Video also shows people in the building throwing molotov cocktails and shooting at the people outside.
The UN issued an objective report. Somehow it was forgotten by the pro-Russian media.
A collaboration agreement signed in 2009 by Jean-Marie Le Pen is a pretty weak link, considering everything that happened between then and 2014, let alone then and now.
No, I talk about “actual neo-Nazis” because of what Right Sector and the Asov Battalion say and do themselves.
Look up the marches they held in Lvov (or Lviv or however it’s spelt this year) to celebrate the SS Galicia Division before this Euromaidan crisis kicked off.
The fact that the Americans choose peaceful non-military involved approach to meddling into Ukraine’s politics clearly shows that they are democratic, gentlemanly type of people, while the Russians are barbarous, uncivilised, always resorting to physical violence types. You retard Polak, what is wrong with you? The only reason that Americans didn’t resort to armed intervention in Ukraine’s politics is because it wasn’t the best course of action, not because of some “moral superiority” of the Americans. When will you get it that everything that the Americans touch turns to sheet, but I guess from a Polak perspective it’s difficult to notice, because your country of origin fit the above description even before getting involved with US, so you can’t really tell the difference.
Who mentioned a US sponsored rebellion? But equally not all rebellions against autocrats and dictators are US sponsored.
So according to you are the National Front former Nazis, then? They were in 2009 but not anymore?
Right Sector are not neo-Nazis (their deputy leader is a religious Jew, for goodness sake) but far right nationalists. They are to Nazis what Franco was to Hitler. Azov, on the other hand, are Nazis. Neither one of those groups came to power or formed the government.
It was always Lviv in Ukrainian, and has been officially so for 26 years. Before that it was Lwow or Lemberg for centuries. It was only Lvov under the Soviets, for 50 years. Lviv is the Sovok spelling for the spelling, equivalent to calling Dresden Karl Marx Stadt.
Have they achieved power?
No one is saying Americans or Russians are morally better. We are merely comparing level and intensity of involvement in Ukraine.
In Donbas, Russians brought in a Russian PM and 1 of 2 deputy PMs. A Russian military leader. About 20% of the troops. Russian citizens, from Russia. Coming to power were people who had been nobodies prior to Russian intervention.
Americans brought in some cheerleaders like McCain, distributed cookies, etc. Coming to power in Ukraine, were people who had actually won the most recent national election’s popular vote. But in your world the new Ukrainian government are puppets but the Donbas government in power are totally independent locals. Someone like you calling others retards is very funny. Again, what low IQ country in the Balkans are you from?
Who has more right to be involved in Ukraine, US or Russia? Russians make up 1/3 of Ukraine’s population and how is any business of US to meddle into Ukrainian affairs, you Polish imbecile? Russia should leave it’s compatriots to the mercy of the Ukrainian neonazi morons? How would Americans like if Russia sponsored color themed revolution in Texas? Would that be OK by them? Ukraine is pretty much almost as integral part of Russia as Texas is, probably more, because they stole Texas from the Mexicans, Russia didn’t steal Ukraine from anybody and has ownership claims over Ukraine going back to Kievan Rus.
So that’s how democracy works? If you don’t like the results of the election, you go by the results of the popular vote, and if that doesn’t work in your favor too, you come up with some other excuse. According to your formula, Hillary should be a president in the US now. She won the popular vote, and because the deep state didn’t like the results, they have grounds to replace Trump with Hilary because of the popular vote. Amazing thing that democracy business is, very flexible, you can always find an excuse to change the rules if you don’t like the outcome.
And by the way, it’s none of your f***ing business which country I am from, my nationality won’t help increase your insight into things one iota. You’re just not smart enough to handle conversation based on logic.
It was 1/5, not 1/3. Currently it is even less.
Your dishonesty is noted.
We were discussing level of involvement, not who “has more right to be involved.”
Don’t try to change the subject to distract from the fact that the Donbas repiblics are much more Russian puppets than the Ukrainian one is an American one.
I didn’t realize Texas was a country separate from the USA.
How are the schools in your Balkan country?
Yeah, the languages are just the same
Only the natives.
As Romanians do upon the Italians.
I know it is hard for someone of your limited intellect, but try to keep focused. We were discussing whether the action represented popular will or was some sort of foreign operation. The fact that the people who came to power after the Maidan uprising is another piece of evidence that supports it having been a popular revolt, not simply a foreign project.
It is very amusing to know, however. When someone takes a pro-Russia position but is noticeably more ignorant and less intelligent than Russians, it’s usually someone from the Balkans. Someone just like you.
Let me tell you something, you stupid Polak. There is a reason why Poland for centuries has been a punching bag between Germany and Russia. Because you don’t want to ally yourselves with those that would be your natural allies, but instead you try to pretend that you are western.
If Germany is given even another half-chance – they’ll show you how “western” you are. But in this western – the Germans are going to be the cowboys and you are going to be the Indians. It has always been like that and it always will be. You are just stupid morons who never learn anything. Your BS about Ukraine and your concern about them is totally phony. I know what your agenda is.
Polaks think that Ukraine should belong to Poland. Based on some historic anomaly when the Russians were too busy dealing with the Mongols, and Polaks helped themselves to some Russian land in Ukraine, Polaks think that Russia stole their land from them afterwards when they regained their sovereignty from the Mongols. Keep dreaming.
I don’t care if you are a member of NATO. You can become a member of an interstellar military alliance and you will never have Ukraine. You are not smart enough for that, nor capable of such feat. And also as far as I know, the hard core Ukrainian nationalists hate you – the Polaks even more than they hate Russia, so good luck with getting that project going.
For similar reasons why Russia spent centuries as a punching bag for Germany, or Germany for France and Russia.
Whose punching-bag-for-centuries was your Balkan nation? You can guess the reason.
Germany’s native population is collapsing and it is being replaced by hostile Others. It is not a threat to anybody but itself.
How cute. You believe fairytales that medieval Rus was like a modern nation-state, rather than a loose trading organization of Vikings and their Slavic (in modern Ukraine) and Slavic-Finnic (in modern Russia) subjects. Ignorant Balkan people are a good market for such tales.
Ukraine was part of Poland and Lithuania longer than it was part of Russia. Ukrainian natives fought Russians as much as they fought Poles. Ukrainian natives have consistently voted for pro-Western parties, but were previously held back by the Russian anchor, which is now gone. Like attracts like.
But history is not your strength.
See I knew what your real agenda was. Don’t BS me about democracy in Ukraine. The wet dream of every Polak is that Ukraine is going to be theirs one day. Good luck with that one, bud. It’s not happening. Not if the Russians have anything to say about it, and frankly, not if Ukrainians have something to say about it either. As for the Balkan Slavs – they would never fall for stupid scheme like “You have to accept some ME refugees in the spirit of western democracy”. Only moronic Polaks would drop their pants and bend over if they are told that that’s what it takes to be western and democratic. No Balkan Slav will fall for that one, not even the Croats, except of course the Bosnians, but that’s not surprising.
You know nothing.
I am pointing out simple facts.
There you go again, with your sexual preoccupation. I was surprised you didn’t do this in the last post.
Pointing out the simply facts that:
and
Is not a call for annexation by Poland.
Are you a Slavicized Albanian (Serb?) Or a Slavicized Turkic person (Bulgarian). Which non-Slav former Ottoman subject pretending to be a Slav are you?
Poland isn’t taking in masses of refugees. On the contrary, it is less refugee-friendly than it was before.
Poland has fewer than 2,000 Muslims out of a population of 38 million.
Serbia has 220,000 Muslims out of a population of about 7 million.
Bulgaria has 570,000 Muslims out of a population of around 7 million people.
Poland, Belarus and Ukraine are the most Slavic countries in the world. You hate two of the three, correct?
Is there a Polish slur for Ukranians similar to “stupid Polak?”
I haven’t come across any. Banderists can be used as an insult – kind of like calling Germans Nazis just to insult them, but it doesn’t mean stupid (Rezun has been used too – it means one who slices, referring to war crimes). Ukrainians can use “Lyach” for Poles but this doesn’t imply stupidity.
Poles don’t have a reputation in Eastern Europe as being stupid; they are sometimes viewed as sneaky or as haughty. Lynn estimates Polish IQ as being 99, highest among the Slavs. Ukraine, Belarus and Russia are all at 97. Serbia is at 89, a little lower than Albania’s 90 (Serbs are about 75% Slavicized Albanians). Serbs on average are only 4 points higher than the African American average.
You are wrong amigo. The greatest Slavs that ever lived are the Russians. You don’t come even close to them. I can’t even go into every detail of what makes a nation great. The simplest thing is to just take a look at their accomplishments.
But then again, Russian accomplishments pale in comparison to what the Polaks have accomplished – becoming catholic. I don’t know if you picked up on that, but I don’t really care for that pedophile sect. And what I really despise is how much you Polaks are proud of it.
What is the basis of this pride? Have you invented it? You got nothing to do with its creation you dummies. But I guess when you have nothing else to be proud of, religion would do. Religion will go out of fashion one day, and it has never been really that important, except when used for political purposes and that’s why spirituality of the religions is only one small miniscule part, the most important part, the real significance of a religion is the politics of it.
And you, the Polaks are one of the champions of self-manipulation as to the importance of the religion. It just cracked me up completely when I found out that 40% of the Polaks today hang around in churches. That’s one category where they are way ahead of any Western European nation. The more they hang out in churches, the more western they become.
The world is moving away from that. Nowadays, religion is mostly individual and spiritual thing, and not something to show off with. Slavs were once pagan, one day they might be again, and I think that would be a great thing. Christianity is more a divisive factor than unifying one. Actually all religions are like that. It’s a competition, mine is better than yours, and they are all a fairy tale nonsense.
There should be other things people should be proud off and coming together about. Look at yourself stupids, you share 70% of your DNA with the Russians, but yet your wonderful religion makes you better. See, CIA knew this, they knew you stupid f**ks. After 400 years of Italian popes, all of a sudden in the middle of the cold war they elect a Polak? Coincidence? I don’t think so. Don’t listen to me, you go on and be proud of your “accomplishment”. One day religion will fade into oblivion, what are you going to be proud of then?
Oh dear. All the necessary Polak-bashing was done almost 200 years ago by Heinrich Heine. Here it is in English:
https://www.poetrynook.com/poem/two-knights
and Russian:
http://www.stihi-xix-xx-vekov.ru/geyne30.html
Personally, I’ve known many charming (and smart, believe it or not) Polish people, but yeah, this guy here certainly does evoke negative stereotypes…
Isn’t it true that “Polack” is only a slur in English?
I don’t know where the American idea of “stupid Poles” came from, though I’ve heard the German population had something to do with it (during the Prussian occupation of part of Poland).
The Jews also tell Polish jokes but the stereotype is as often if not more often (unfairly from a historical perspective) mean or wicked Poles as stupid Poles.
According to a Slavicized non-Slav (DNA tells us that the only Balkan Slavs are Slovenians and Croats). It makes sense you would identify with them, because although Russians are basically Slavs (unlike you) they are, like Czechs, significantly non-Slavic. Russians are something like 20% Finnish, and spent centuries under Mongol/Tatar tutelage.
Russians once produced the world’s greatest literature.
Blessed by backward eastern neighbors who couldn’t resist once Russia achieved technological superiority, Russians became the most powerful of the Slavic countries. They also became, after the Germans, the greatest killers and oppressors of the world’s Slavs (though this was achieved under a Georgian ruler – but Russians have a tradition of foreign rulers).
It is why most of the Slavs who have experienced Russian rule dislike Russia.
Here is a massive pew poll about attitudes towards Russia.
Serbia, Belarus, and Bulgaria favor a strong Russia and ties with Russia. Population 25 million.
Serbs, the ones who have basically never experienced Russian rule, like Russia even more than do Belarussians (who are heavily Russified). For Slavs, ignorance seems to be a predictor of wanting a strong and powerful Russia.
Poland, Ukraine, Croatia, and Czech Republic don’t want a strong Russia and favor cooperation with the rest of the West. Population – 94 million.
So we know what side the Slavs are on. And you are against them. Well, as a non-Slav, could we expect otherwise of you?
Thank you for sharing your comments about religion. They explain your moral degeneracy.
In the 19th century America was flooded by Polish peasants, who were really uneducated and this became the impression. Russian and Ukrainian, or Balkan peasants were even more uneducated but those didn’t come over in huge numbers, so Poland got that reputation.
You know how every Polak begins the day. He (or she) begins the day by asking themselves – how can we make ourselves more appealing to the west. Well I have few ideas. Gays are very popular in the west, so I think you might be falling behind there. So here’s what you do: put on a drag, some lipstick, high heels and start parading around Warsaw or something. But if that proves not to be enough, you might have to take one for the team – If you know what I mean.
I am starting to understand the Russians know, why the feel the urge to give you a trashing once in a while to help you come to your senses. But It’s nothing there, you can’t come to your senses when you don’t have them. So keep your routine of hanging around churches, sooner or later, the west will notice this. You might have to pick up the tempo of accepting some members of the religion of peace. But I not worried about that.
You Polaks are flexible, If the west tells you that the religion of peace is the new rage, you’ll build mosques in no time and start hanging around them, even convert if that’s what it takes to please the west. Anything, anything just please consider us the Polaks as western.
Never mind geography (you are too stupid to be good at any subject anyway), which puts Poland clearly in Eastern Europe, their exceptional religion overrides that. Thank God for that. Now if you move the Polaks even to Antarctica, they won’t lose a beat, they are still western. By the way I shouldn’t be using “Stupid Polak” anymore. I apologize for that. It’s pretty much self-explanatory, when you say Polak it implies the other. It’s just a force of habit.
The Polish don’t seem to be trying to “Europeanize” as much as you suggest. I do agree that they are caught in an unpleasant situation between Western Europe that wants to destroy their values, and Russia which has been historically antagonistic to them.
“How would Americans like if Russia sponsored color themed revolution in Texas?”
Are you actually suggesting that the US did that in Ukraine? Evidence?
Wikileaks has all the cables between the US Embassy and Washington during the Orange revolution laid bare for the world to see. The worst that can be said is that the US paid for an exit poll. Russian levels of intervention were far higher. Putin actually came to the Ukraine and spoke to rallies.
Really? Which planet do you live on? That sow Nuland was even heard on the phone picking the next Prime minister of Ukraine: “Yats is our man” I believe it was the phrase she used. Yes I do suggest that US fomented the “popular upraising” in Ukraine. It was definitely popular in US, they spent 5 million to prove how popular it was with them. I believe that’s only a pocket change compared to the real figure that they spent on the uprising. But at least that’s on record – they US has admitted to it. It’s also known that the losers (the Ukrainians) who participated in the daily demonstrations were paid for it. Probably the best (maybe even the only) jobs most of those losers ever had. By the way, Ukrainians suffer from the same disease that the Polaks suffer. They see themselves as “western”. That’s why this annoying Polak who comments here supports them. They share the same “western” ideology that based on their religion they belong to the west, geographical location be damned. I suspect that you are one of the MSM consumers and the following link is not going to do much to convince you – since it’s not sanctioned by CNN, NYT, FOX or the other bastions of truth. I had to try though.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-and-eu-are-paying-ukrainian-rioters-and-protesters/5369316
I don’t think so. Cyrano here is understandingly annoyed by the AP guy, but otherwise I never noticed any hostility on the Russian side. On the Polish side, yes, there might a bit of that, mostly on the unconscious level.
As a Russian friend described it to me recently: you start drinking with them, and after a few you start understanding the language. Then, for a while, everything is fine, but then eventually the anti-Russian phase comes. So, apparently it’s buried real deep, in the lizard brain.
There’s a leak from the Open Society Foundation, Soros’ organization, which explicitly indicated to promote the color revolution and to make calls to friendly US officials to promote the sentiment on the UN level.
You do realize that Poland has elected an anti-Western liberal government and has deftly managed to take in a lot of Western money without opening its doors to any refugees (they took 100 or so and then found excuses to get ride of them)
Empty claims. The fact is that Poland has fewer than 2000 Muslims, and that Putin has just built the largest mosque in Europe in Moscow.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/23/putin-slams-islamic-state-praises-great-global-religion-islam-opening-europes-largest-mosque/
Richard Lynn has found that Poland on average has the highest IQ of all Slavic countries. Balkan Slavs – your people – have the lowest. The are actually closer to American blacks than they are to Poles. It shows, with every one of your posts.
You whine about Poles like third worlders whine about Westerners, and for similar reasons.
Wikipedia claims it’s about 30 000:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Poland
(Granted that’s still not much, and most of them presumably are long-established Tatars who are unlikely to cause much trouble).
I was going with this, and assuming some under-reporting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Poland#Major_denominations_in_Poland
30,000 is still a negligible amount – not even .1%.
All right my Polish friend. I agree with you about Poland handling the ME refugee crisis admirably. I am actually proud of the moves Poland has made regarding the demands from EU to accept more refugees. You mentioned IQ few times, you do realize that IQ is individual thing – don’t you? I don’t care what’s the Balkan average, I am pretty confident of my intelligence. Smarter people than you have said that I am brilliant. I don’t know about that, but I am pretty good at figuring things out. As I said, Polaks as Slavs are brothers to me. You sometimes piss me off, but you are still family, as far as I am concerned. My favorite brothers are still the Russians and that’s never going to change. Vaya con dios, my brother.
Please engage your brain instead of the Russian nationalist narrative.
Nuland proposed bringing John Kerry over to make a speech to improve Yats chances. That is not fomenting a coloured revolution. (The CIA did do so in Burma. They engaged a left wing protestor to sit down and write a book about how to do it. Since then people power movements across the world have used it as a guide – Occupy Wall Street is an example – was OWS a CIA plot?). I have no doubt that on weekdays, a considerable proportion of the agitators at the Maidan were paid. Just seeing them on TV was enough. They were clearly not acting spontanteously and working to a plan but the place to look for the cash dispensers is the local oligarchs not the EU in the name of sanity!
The amount quoted for Ukraine was $5 Bn not $5m. Russian received $30 Bn ($10Bn US, $10Bn EU, $5Bn UK, $5Bn De). The money was spent on building free markets and democracy. Short term funding to improve customs duty and tax collection, setting up regional venture capital funds to help the FSU to retain some technical capability, training legislators and lawyers to patch together something like a working system of commercial law, nuclear weapons decommissioning, Chernobyl clean up, exchange visits for academics, joint research projects (I arranged one on lasers), exchange visits for business people (I arranged 3 in my small way), training programs for small business, the FSU section of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, setting up a stock exchange (at the time, a useless American obsession in my opinion in a land with insecure ownership rights). And yes, some was spent on training on voting systems, on setting up NGOs to keep the system honest but neither $5Bn in Ukraine nor $30Bn in Russia.
Get real. Pull your head out of the conspiracy theory sand and look in more than one place. If separating news from excessively even handed comment on the BBC is too intellectually demanding, try watching mainstream Russian TV News (not Kisleyev) for example. MSM News reports are not usually that wrong. It’s the comment and sometimes the analysis where the spin comes in. I actually have 20 years of first hand experience in Russia and speak enough Russian to have friends who don’t speak English.
And as for your link, it tracks through to Paul Craig Roberts, a committed Marxist who is cherry picking weapons not the truth. The ordinary people of the world are wealthier today than they ever have been because of capitalism not Marxism. Try Chile/Venuzuela, Zambia/Zimbabwe, S/N Korea, Malaysia/Vietnam. Modi’s India. China post Deng.
I wouldn’t dispute it. And it proves?
“Smarter people than you have said that I am brilliant. I don’t know about that, but I am pretty good at figuring things out.”
There was a bloke who wrote a book about the difficulties of being so smart as to have an IQ of 120 (a US college professor in some Liberal Art). It’s on my Kindle somewhere. It was deeply unperceptive, very conceited and lacked self awareness. More than a few Mensa drivers drive taxis.
Don’t worry, I don’t drive a taxi – if that’s the new metric for measuring IQ – than I guess I failed. You can sleep easy now. When you wake up – go back to watching CNN. Very informative – from what I’ve been told.
But are you really Polish? I thought you were Ukrainian.
That’s not meddling in internal affairs of another country? But of course it was OK, because it was benevolent, it was done so democracy can be improved in Ukraine.
You know what I heard? The US has the secret recipe of what makes a “democracy” stashed in Forth Know – a la KFC recipe. Every once in a while, US retrieves the secret recipe and compares it to some unfortunate country’s version of democracy. In 2014 it was Ukraine’s bad luck that it was their turn to have their democracy analyzed by the greatest democracy of them all and compared to the secret recipe of what really makes a democracy– and they didn’t get the passing mark, so now they are in the process of improving their democracy to match the standards of US.
There are quite a few people that I’ve meet that after talking to them for few minutes I end up with a feeling of knowing less than before I listened to them. You are one of those. Don’t ever bother to comment on my statements here, you make my brain hurt. You are that kind of an imbecile. And I promise I’ll never bother to read or comment on anything you have to say. Have a nice day.
Of course I’m not Polish. I never claimed I was. But isn’t it hilarious how someone who brags that others have called him brilliant and that he is “pretty good at figuring things out” gets even this obvious thing wrong? Over and over again. It’s epic and one the funniest things to happen here.
Same difference. Polak, Ukrainian – you have something that unites you – 2 great nations held back by the evil Russians. As for me being wrong about you being Polish – you figured me out for a Serb. I would call it even. Onward and upward my brother, don’t let the evil Russians hold you back from achieving greatness.
I called you a Balkan Slav, not a Serb. You could be Bulgarian, or (less likely) a Macedonian.
You are contradicting yourself amigo. According to you only Croats and Slovenes qualify as “Balkan Slavs”. And what an elite company that is – they are both Catholics. No surprise there. I was right all along about your agenda. You (Polaks and Ukrainians- the catholic ones) view Catholicism as pinnacle of human achievement.
I did make a fool of myself for assuming that you are Polish. I am man enough to admit that. But every rant that I wrote about the Polish, substitute that with Ukrainian and the story doesn’t lose one bit of accuracy. There is no daylight between the Polish and the Ukrainians in how they see the world. It was an easy mistake to make. Still inexcusable.
Anyhow, do you know how Ukrainians and Polish determine what their position should be on any single issue? They check what’s Russia’s position on that same issue and then they take the opposite stance. Pretty clever huh? The only problem is you cannot build your national identity on one single principle – anti-Russianism. You have to stand for something of your own. Both the Polaks and Ukrainians are pretty much out of ideas when it comes to this. So they revert to the golden rule – just oppose Russia at every turn. Good luck with that. Let’s see how far you’ll get by following that rule.
To be precise, southeastern Croats are not of Slavic descent either.
No contradiction. Among Balkan Slavs, Serbs are something like 75% of Albanian descent and Bulgarians largely of Turkic and native non-Slav descent. They are of course Slavic speaking. They are to Slavs, what Spanish-speaking Latin American mestizos or Afro-Cubans are to Spaniards. But there is no equivalent of “Hispanic” with regards to these peoples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Slavs&oldid=683783238#Genetics
Specific studies of Slavic genetics followed. In 2007 Rębała and colleagues studied several Slavic populations with the aim of localizing the Proto-Slavic homeland.[77] The significant findings of this study are that:
However, Southern-Slavic populations including the Bosnians, Croats (excluding north-western Croatia), Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians are clearly separated from the tight DNA cluster of the rest of the Slavic populations. According to the authors this phenomenon is explained by “… contribution to the Y chromosomes of peoples who settled in the Balkan region before the Slavic expansion to the genetic heritage of Southern Slavs.
So when a Balkan Slav like you tries to lecture a Ukrainian or a Pole about what Slavs ought to do or to “teach” the history of Slavic relations, it is a lot like, say, an Afro-Venezuelan trying to lecture someone from Spain about Spanish ways. It’s a bit of a comedic exercise.
Russians, Belarussians and Ukrainians are Slavs and they are Orthodox. But you bring up a good point – most actual Slavic peoples by descent (rather than language) are Catholics. Catholicism is more of a “true” Slavic religion than is Orthodoxy.
It also should be pointed out that although Russians are of generally Slavic descent they are something like 20% of Finnic descent, the descendants of waves of Slavic settlers mixing with and assimilating less-numerous Finnic natives. So Orthodoxy is largely the faith of the less-Slavic Slavic peoples – the Slavicized Albanians and Turkics of the southern Balkans, and the significantly Finnic Russians.
Good thing, then, that nobody does this. And that the imagined view of Poland or Ukraine is not the real thing. Though it is hardly unique. Polish nationalists used to have the same story about Ukrainians – a national identity built on anti-Polonism. I’m not sure which story came first.
The word “polák” (Polack) does exist in Hungarian, and it’s a slur.
Its only use I can think of is in translations of foreign texts, e.g. Hitler’s Table Talks, where it is obviously used as a slur.
I’m not sure if any Hungarian ever used this word, I certainly never heard it. We generally like Poles and consider them our equals (or rather, betters). (It might have been used centuries earlier as a descriptive term simply meaning “Pole”, I’m not sure about that. I haven’t met any such usage, but it’s possible it existed.)
Yes contradiction. You should try to run that one about the Serbs being Albanians to a Serb – in person. That is you are not completely satisfied with your facial features and you think that reconstructive facial surgery might be the way to go. It’s a hogwash anyway. Now you are geneticist all of a sudden? Balkan Slavs are about 15% to 20% Slavic, but that’s beside the point. You can be 60 to 65% Slavic like Polish and Ukrainians are and still feel unfulfilled without the magic touch of Catholicism.
My point is that it counts more how you feel inside, not the DNA percentage, within the limits of reason of course. It wouldn’t make sense for me to feel Icelandic when I don’t have a single chromosome from that genetic branch. In terms who feels like a Slav in spirit (as well as genetically) I would put the Serbs even ahead of the Russians. They would never trade or bargain with their sense of being Slavs. The Polish and the Ukrainians are a different story. Being western for them takes precedence over being Slav. Never mind that what makes them Slavs is indisputable and that what makes them western is just wishful thinking.
So Serbs are as prone to violence as their Albanian brothers?
Both Serbs and Albanians are descended from the pre-Slavic Balkan populations, most likely Illyrians (there is the theory of Dacian or Thracian origins also). Primitive pastoral mountain folk, some of the oldest populations on the European continent.
Like transracialism?
In spirit – the least actually Slavic are most desperate to prove that they are Slavs. It’s not a unique phenomenon. Rachel Dolezal,
the white woman who really felt black, became a major black activist in her region, even leading her local chapter of the NAACP. By your standards, she was clearly more black than many actual blacks. Just as Serbs are more Slavic “in spirit” than actual Slavs (i.e., Ukrainians or Poles). It’s all quite funny to me, but Rachel and the Serbs take their larping quite seriously. But if you feel Slavic, and Rachel feels black, why not?
Genetically – well, genetics is not on the Serbs’ side. Nor on Rachel’s.
Most Slavic peoples are westerners. Balkan peoples, whether they pretend to be Slavs as Serbs do, or like Albanians do not pretend to be Slavs, are at most semi-westerners. That probably explains your confusion. Russians* are the only actual Slavic group who do not feel fully Western. This is because unlike other Slavs, Russia was under the Mongols for centuries.
*Belarussians are very Russifed so they almost don’t count as an independent Slavic group here
Nobody is desperate to prove anything, man. Except you morons trying to prove that you are “westerners”. Do you know anything about geography? In which parallel universe is Ukraine (or Poland for that matter) west. Even less in terms of cultural contributions. What is Ukraine’s cultural contribution to the western culture – except supplying cheap Ukrainian whores to the West?
You know what Putin said about Ukraine joining EU? He said “That’s dating that will never result in a marriage”. I think he was awfully generous. There is no dating there. There is only casual f**king in which Ukraine is on the receiving end. You welcomed the Germans in 1941 with flowers – fools that you are – and then you were thoroughly trashed by your western “brothers”. Who rescued you then? The same guys that are holding you back now from achieving your national greatness – the Russians. I told you before, you are incapable of achieving greatness in anything. It’s not the Russians that are holding you back. It’s the fact that you have nothing between the ears, and there is no religion that will make you western, you stupid Ukrainian moron.
This attempt of Ukraine’s “westernization” will end up the same as the one in 1941. You’ll find out that no one in the west considers you as one of them – religion or not. You know when the Germans and the British and the Americans will consider you as equal? Never. Maybe even later than that. But you keep kissing their butts, by now it’s Ukrainian favorite pastime. You are people without dignity, trying to sell themselves to someone who considers you third rate goods.
But don’t listen to me, keep on trying. You are almost there.
So some wanna-be Slav probably thinks that Australians aren’t Westerners either.
Non-Slav-pretending-to-be-a-Slav, teach us Slavs whether we are Westerners or not. It’s very funny.
Now your mind is back to its natural resting-place, the brothel.
“Westerner” isn’t defined as, “how did the Germans treat us during World War II.” It has to do with things that you are incapable of understanding, things not having to do with brothels.
But again, a Turk’s historical centuries-long lackey who pretends to be a Slav, lecturing about whether or not Slavs are Westerners, is very funny. Do continue amusing us.
What’s the parallel here with Ukraine? Am i missing something? Ukrainians sailed from the west to present day Ukraine and therefore geographical location is irrelevant? Are you that stupid? Don’t answer that, it’s a rhetorical question.
How is westerner defined other than the treatment that you (rightfully) got from the Germans in WW2? By your huge accomplishments in arts, science and culture. Is that what defines you? Some evidence of that please. That semi-literate Shevchenko won’t do it – at least not by himself.
To you I am not pretending to be anything, Slav not Slav, I really don’t give a f**k what you think of me, because opinions of retards don’t count. I don’t want to be a Slav or a westerner or anything other than what I am. I don’t have any pretensions to anything that I am not. You do. And you are on a one way street. I don’t see any reciprocity coming from the west. No one there longs for you. Evidence? Russia has accepted 2.5 million refugees from Ukraine (their ethnicity doesn’t matter – they are still citizens of Ukraine) How many refugees from Ukraine EU and US accepted? Not as many? I didn’t think so.
You will probably never be western (I don’t know why anybody would still desire such a thing), but you’ll always be a burden to Russia – I am not talking about the refugees, I am talking about Ukraine as a nation.
I’m sorry you are too stupid to figure it out.
What low IQ Balkan country are you from again, wanna-be Slav?
Ah, now thew wanna-be Slav justifies murder of millions of actual Slavs.
Thank you.
Your veneer is thin indeed.
Don’t try to match wits with me, you stupid dimwit, or you’ll end up in a witless protection program where you belong. Of all Ex-Soviet countries only Ukraine didn’t manage to build a viable society. Maybe only Moldova can compete with them in terms of being a failed state – but for them geography really worked against them. If they were bordering Russia instead of the losers Ukraine they would have been able to benefit economically from their giant neighbor.
You know why Ukraine faces development challenges? Because Ukraine is developmentally challenged – which of course is euphemism for being retards. You squandered all the natural resources that Ukraine possesses – richest soil in the world – chernozem, heavy industry, mining and you ended up with where you are today. Population decimated, down by 10-15 million inhabitants from Soviet times. And all of this is somehow Russia’s fault? How?
You are morons that are unable to govern themselves, you just won’t admit it. EU was supposed to be a magical solution to all of this. Even if you were admitted in EU, you still would have been expected to able to govern yourself, design political and economic policies. Instead you thought EU is going to do all that for you, because you are morons?
It doesn’t work that way, my friend. Look at yourself where are you now in comparison with the other countries that emerged from USSR. You are the worst, and had the best advantages. You used to get cheapest gas in Europe, plus charge Russia enormous fees for gas transfer. You are about to lose that too, when Nord Stream 2 gets going. That’s how stupid you are. Keep antagonizing Russia, it’s working so well for you. And you come to this site trying to sell some kind of Ukrainian intelligence. There is no such a thing as Ukrainian intelligence. It’s an oxymoron – with you being the morons and cattle – sorry if I offended any oxen.
Russia is not the cause of your problems. You yourself being retards are the problem. That’s why not only you will not make it into EU, you won’t make it as a country either.
That would be impossible, and to be honest I feel a little cruel making fun of you. But then I recall that you justify the murder of millions of Slavs…
Which low IQ Balkan country are you from again?
Here average IQs of Slavic countries, according to Richard Lynn:
https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country
Poland 99
Czech Republic 98
Russia 97
Belarus 97
Ukraine 97
Slovakia 96
Here are Balkan pretend-Slav average IQs:
Bulgaria 93
Macedonia 91
Serbia 89
Given the evidence about national IQ averages, an intelligent person – that is, a person not like Cyrano – would conclude that Ukraine’s problems stem form issues other than low population intelligence.
But, as with your stupid idea that I was a Pole, you once again draw a stupid conclusion. As usual. You can’t help it, though. It is all you are capable of.
But thanks for the your “kind” words about the second largest of the Slavic nations, non-Slav.
Even funnier – you the product of the low IQ Balkan country don’t limit your comments about retards to Ukrainians, you also apply them to the country of the Slavs with the highest average intelligence – some hilarious quotes from you: ” Polak and Intellectual. It’s a contradiction in terms if there ever was one”; ” I shouldn’t be using “Stupid Polak” anymore. I apologize for that. It’s pretty much self-explanatory, when you say Polak it implies the other.”
Stalin had the right idea how to deal with you morons. That’s why he is my hero. You can’t reason with imbeciles. The best thing that you can do is hit them between the horns and hope that they will come to their senses. In your case – it’s a vain hope.
Ukrainians will never come to their senses. They don’t have them. That’s why it’s so easy for a normal person to lose patience with you. You don’t understand reason and logic, and that’s just the way it is. You never know when it’s time to get on with the program, nor what the program actually is. You are a disgrace to the Slavs. We are not all like you. There are some smart people in the Slavic family. Ukrainians, by and large don’t qualify.
Quite a record you run as a country. Independent now for less than 30 years, and probably not for much longer. If you lose your independence now, that’s going to be it for you as sovereign country. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves, that almost every country coming out of the USSR made it, except you losers.
I am kind of flattered (not really) that you are becoming a fan of me (maybe stalker is more appropriate?) and you are following my other comments. Read and learn, my friend, read and learn. Not that you are capable of such a feat.
Good to know the fake Slav supports the murder of million of actual Slavs. Thanks for putting it on the record.
Moscow has killed more Slavs than anybody other than Hitler. First you denied or made excuses, but you have easily been made to reveal yourself.
Says the guy who mistook me for a Pole until eventually I said something directly.
How cute. A low-IQ non-Slav who supports the killing of milllions of actual Slavs, has an opinion about actual Slavs.
Listen, you stupid. You think you found a safe place to “discuss” with me something. Try to talk to me on some active links and I’ll give you a public trashing and humiliation that you deserve. Don’t hide here because you think it’s safe and nobody will see your stupidity. Yes I think Stalin was right in how he treated you. I would have done the same. There is no other way to deal with stupid. Witness the current situation. You are just going downward – which I don’t really care about, because you brought it on yourselves – but you are trying to take down Russia with you. That’s what I find inexcusable. The rest of what’s happening to you – you deserve it. End of story.
You’ve actually done a great job humiliating yourself. It’s quite amusing. The so-called Slav patriot has easily been made to admit that he is glad millions of Slavs were killed by the Georgian despot. The self-described “brilliant” guy who things he can figure something out, couldn’t even figure out the nationality of the guy he was trying to argue with.
You, the public fool, calling others “stupid” is especially priceless.
You are the gift that keeps on giving, Cyrano.
Listen you stupid Ukrainian ape. The only reason that everybody gives you a beating is because that’s the only language you morons understand. Stalin gave you a beating, the Germans did, Russians occasionally had to revert to the only language you understand, and if they had a chance, EU and USA will give you the same treatment.
Russians are intelligent people, but because of you – the Ukrainians, they had to learn a second language – the language of the stupid. So now the Russians are bilingual, they speak Russian among themselves, and if they want to be understood by you, they have to speak the language of the stupid – physical violence. Look even at our conversation – it’s going nowhere, because I can’t speak the language of the stupid – at least not over the Internet, which is a pity, because that’s the only way I could make you understand anything.
Member of low-IQ Balkan nation once again calls someone stupid. It isn’t getting any less funny. You just can’t help yourself.
Remember when I pointed out how easily one can identify a Balkan “Slav” – it is someone who takes a pro-Russian position, while being less informed and less intelligent than any actual Russian. You are proving this correct with every post.
What a tough guy you are. 🙂
I’ll engage in some healthy, earthy peasant humor and suggest that you have managed to misspell your name here. Perhaps it should be not Cyrano, but simply Srano?
You peasant humor is very funny. I couldn’t stop laughing. At least you got the peasant part right. That’s where you belong. Go back to your village , modern life is too complicated for you. What are you doing on the internet anyway? Crying how the Russians mistreat you? Boo, hoo, it’s not their fault, everybody mistreats the cretins Ukrainians. You are just that kind of people, you tend to evoke some very basic emotions in people. If anything, the Russians are too kind to you, you deserve far worse, but you’ll get there, don’t worry. Once your stupid country goes broke – back to mother Russia. Having no sense of honor, I doubt it that you’ll miss a bit, the only difference there is going to be is that you’ll start licking Russian’s butts with the same fervor with which you’re licking the EU and USA a**es now. Enjoy it.
A Balkan making fun of peasants is very funny indeed, Srano.
I think what happened to you, my friend, is you have lost fate in humanity. This happens to a typical Ukrainian when he doesn’t receive his regular portion of beatings for a while. You kind of felt disappointed after the Russians let you down in the 2014 fiasco. I know you were hoping for more beatings from them, and their response to your needs was lukewarm.
Like they don’t love you anymore, or something. It seems that even the Russians are not what they used to be. The question arises, whom can a stupid Ukrainian trust anymore? Don’t despair, here is what I suggest you do:
Don’t waste your time on the internet, go outside, meet people, tell them that you are Ukrainian and that you feel odd if you go for extended periods of time without someone beating up on you. People are nice, you’ll see, you’ll find someone willing to help. Just talk to them the way you talk to me and it will take no time to provoke someone.
Even me, I wish I could reach out across the Internet and grab you by the throat for the stupid a**hole that you are, but I can’t. But don’t worry, someone will come forward, and then, when finally someone cracks your stupid Ukrainian scull, you’ll feel you old self, beaten up and satisfied. Just the way every Ukrainian was meant to feel like.
Trust me, that’s what’s wrong with you. Don’t waste your time on the internet, tormenting your underdeveloped Ukrainian brain, which you it was not designed for that. You know that the average Ukrainian was designed to have just enough intellect to provoke some smarter person to give him a trashing. Don’t go against your nature, it’s not good for you. Listen to your DNA, and what you’ll hear will be a plea: beat me up, please give some beating. You’ll see, there are some good people out there, they’ll oblige and they’ll give you what you need, you stupid Ukrainian monkey.
Oh look, the Balkan is obsessed with beatings. You wrote five entire paragraphs about beatings in response to my one sentence. As your Russian betters would say, pravda glaz kolyt.
But what else can a Balkan peasant like you really know? You obviously know nothing about Slavs; you aren’t a real one, after all. You like the word “stupid” – but you are a proven fool. In your resentment of real Slavs you are happy that a few million of them were killed by a Georgian despot. Are you lost without the Turks telling you what to do?
You are very funny, Srano.
I just feel sorry for the Russians man, dealing with you is almost unbearable and you are only one. How must it feel to deal with 10’s of millions of people like you over there right on the border of Russia – I just feel sorry for the Russians. As much as this conversation has been enchanting (not), one of us has to be the smarter and end it. Since we both agree that I am the smarter one, it ends here and now. Enjoy your life.
As expected, Srano keeps making mistakes in his posts.