This week’s Open Thread.
Open Thread 138
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was written by Anatoly Karlin for Russian Reaction on January 30, 2021 .180 Comments
Anatoly Karlin is a transhumanist interested in psychometrics, life extension, UBI, crypto/network states, X risks, and ushering in the Biosingularity.
Inventor of Idiot’s Limbo, the Katechon Hypothesis, and Elite Human Capital.
Apart from writing books, reviews, travel writing, and sundry blogging, I Tweet at @powerfultakes and run a Substack newsletter.
This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.
If you are new to my work, start here.
Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.
Will Reddit kill short selling?
Will there be an exodus of millions of Hongkongers to the UK?
No.
100,000 or 200,00 probably, millions not.
The exodus already happened in the 1990s, and it was to all of the Commonwealth not just the UK
No chance of it being in the millions, and even less of a chance of it being to the UK
Scott Alexander has his new blog up and running and the first three installments. The first one is on drugs.
https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
By some odd coincidence I woke up that morning and the term “God pill” was going through my head and that is what I typed into the google search bar when I turned on my computer. The first search result had nothing to do with Scott or modafinil which he used to think is the God pill but that was long ago. It was:
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/brain-articles/what-is-qualia/
Any nootropic fanatics in the open anatoly karlin land?
Russian humor from YouTube comments sections:
План Путина по развалу Украины:
1. Сильно не мешать.
2. Громко не ржать.
Putin’s plan for destruction of Ukraine revealed:
1. Don’t interfere much.
2. Don’t laugh too loud.
PS. Other commenters suggested amending Step 1 to “Don’t interfere, period.”
Any thoughts on Russian commercial aircraft industry? Will MC-21 and CR929 see widespread success?
How do you see Russian relationship with China developing over the next 20-30 years? Closer cooperation, competition, neutrality…?
Aye aye, sir!
I sometimes use Semax and/or Selank.
My idea that Ashkenazi intelligence is actually Khazar intelligence is based on the fact that Eastern Jews and particularly those close to the Khazar related Hungarians are the one with STEM achievements. The French have a great collection of French mathematicians(Fourier, laplace, galois etc) while the only France related Jew mathematicians I can think of – Grothendieck and Mandelbrot – are of Eastern European Jewish ethnicity. where are all the non-eastern-european Ashkenazi Jewish mathematicians and natural scientist? there are a lot of bankers, social scientists, philosophers, artists, rabbis, but no one or very few natural scientist and mathematicians on the level of the native western Europeans who surround them and supposedly have lesser IQ.
Laurent Schwarz and the Schwarz family, Jacques Hadamard, Andre Weil, Paul Levy
I wonder how much Japanese culture is influenced by the regular surveys that are taken by manga readers. Is that a big part of what makes it seem Japanese? Or is it the artists themselves?
In Japan, I imagine that certain publications skew male, so surveys would help perpetuate traditional gender roles. (In a way, there might be a loose analogy to the covers of old American pulps, which often showed buxom babes to appeal to teenage American males, influencing the stories themselves, since authors were paid more for cover stories) But in the West today, there isn’t anything akin to these single ethny, male-skewed (at least in some sectors) surveys.
Surveys in the West that drive commercial entertainment all seem to be “text in your vote” which probably make them skew a mix of gregarious female and homosexual. And so we get gay trash like Eurovision and American Idol, and it is sold as the will of the people.
MS-21 entry into service was postponed, from late this year to late 2022, for technical (certification process) and economical reasons. I wonder if they are not planning to add more Russian components to it, also, as recently they had the problem when the US forbade export of composite materiales and they had to suddenly develop their own for this aircraft. It will probably sell well in Russia, and when the all Russian version is developed it can be exported to Iran, which has a huge demand of modern airliners.
On the other hand, CR929 is still in a early stage of development, so it is harder to tell. The last I read is that the first prototype is scheduled to fly in 2023. The new Russian engine for it, the PD-35, is to start its first ground tests this year, so if all goes well with the engine the new Sino-Russian widebody may have a future. Without the engine it is a no-go. But considering the success in developing the PD-14 for the MS-21, probably Russia won’t have too much of a problem with PD-35.
They are incrementally replacing foreign components.
Swine Right
https://twitter.com/GrebePilled/status/1355586311760072706
https://twitter.com/LantShift/status/1355649603480252417
Do they help improve your cognitive abilites (frankly, I don’t think that you need too much help in that department). 🙂
I’m currently watching an interesting NetFlix TV series, “Queen’s Gambit”. The protagonist, Beth Harmon, a young up and coming chess prodigy becomes addicted to an unnamed tranquilizer that helps her with her cognitive chess skills and ability to visualize the chessboard and pieces. Barbiturates aren’t classified as nootropics, and are used to basically calm people down. Apparently, in her case it helped her think about complicated chess configurations too. It’s a good series, I’m at the stage where she’s lost twice now to the Russian superman chess grandmaster. I can’t really help Morton’s Toes any, as its been quite a few years since I tried any amphetamines or caffeine pills, great for all night cram sessions though, as I recall…..
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d3/The_Queen%27s_Gambit.jpg/250px-The_Queen%27s_Gambit.jpg
It looks like the production of the first prototype starts this year according to news from last week. Like you wrote the first flight is scheduled for 2023. It looks like the first flight tests will be with some Western engine.
That’s Trump he always hires the best doesn’t he plus I read that he isn’t paying Rudy for the shitshow.
I guess it’s going to power the An-124 and a number of similar airplanes, including the new Il-78 variants and the Il-96-400, so the engine is going to be developed regardless of the CR929.
It’s a good strategy ensuring the loyalty of later subordinates: they are always sure that Trump will pay them for their work, or he won’t. That’s why Trump has always had such loyal subordinates.
No surprise, I noted quite early on (and backed by second-order observations) that the Trump campaign wasn’t serious about the court challenges. The MAGA rightoids were much more enraged with the messenger than the kooks and grifters in their own midst.
Anyhow, good on the Chad Giuliani, he seems to have had a good time of it at any rate.
I’ve done it all. Phenylpiracetam, phenibut, dexidrine, modafinil, half the 2C family, pretty much every type of amphetamine, blow, lucy….shit you name it. Nothing to be proud of.
Don’t even waste your time on retarded brand mixtures. You’re gonna need to find what works for you. Get bulk powder, saves you tons. I haven’t used nootropicsdepot.com in a while but they do pure legal nootropics powder.
There is no wonder drug. Every substance has its application. Most are useless. Clearly everyone is different and reactions differ. Erowid.org would be a good place to look up experiences to see if something is even worth the effort.
But the stuff that really works tends to be controlled to some degree (depending on where you live; ie modafinil, amphetamines, phenibut in some places).
Long story short you’ll get more results from eating right, sleeping well, drinking protein, taking your creatine, essential oils and vitamins, and incorporating some push ups and butterfly kicks into your daily regemen. True story.
Ok, lads, consider this: if I want to be living in a country with the highest quality of life for the rest of the century, knowing that IQ is falling in every high HDI countries and having immigration from poor countries with awful human capital quality, any and which countries does have a chance to continue having high quality of living for the rest of century? Who will win is this contest? I’m planning to moving to another country but I’m playing the long term game, and I don’t want to wake up one day and find that I’m living in another third world shithole. Here are some of my countries that I do believe that have a good probability of continuing having a high quality of living for the rest of this century:
1 – Japan
2 – South Korea
3- – Singapore
4 – New Zealand
5 – Australia
5 – UK (maybe, now they have a new immigration policy that filter low quality immigrants, so yeah, they have a chance)
I can’t think of any other besides those, all of them have hard immigration policies that avoid pitfall of bring low quality human capital and screwing their quality of life, also they are all island, a plus to make difficult to people immigrant in an ilegal way.
My criteria: hard immigrant policies + high quality of life today + difficult to access geographically
So, any other metric that I should consider? Any opinions and critics are welcome!
And sorry for any grammatical and spelling mistakes.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdsPenwuqHHcoPp43ey_qyBZOvCH8uMtcMCg&usqp.jpg
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/09/06/only-ashkenazi-jews-were-smart-enough-to-compete-with-oprah/
https://pumpkinperson.com/2018/08/26/independent-confirmation-of-oprahs-head-size/
https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/08/29/big-brained-black-billionaire/
I basically agree with your concluding advice, but was interested in knowing why you feel the need to add protein drinks and especially creatine, to your diet to get optimal results? Creatine is usually used by bodybuilders to help them perform longer in the gym and get better results. Are you unable to get enough proteins from your diet alone? I use both carnitine and arginine (both proteins) along with COQ10 to help in improving and maintaining my heart functions. Vitamin K2-M7 is also great for unplugging veins and arteries surrounding ones heart.
There was mention to a two-engined version of the Il-96, with the PD-35, but it is just rumors by now. The Il-96-400M, which is an upgraded version but with the four PS-90A engines as usual, isn’t advancing very well. The PD-35 will be surely more useful to re-equip the An-124 (quitting the old D-18 Ukrainian engines) and to develop a new heavy strategic lifter (“Slon” project).
I concur. Actually it was kind of a rhetorical question as I experimented long ago and decided that the hype-info was applicable to other biologies than my own; but if people reading this are interested the most interesting sources I have found are:
Doctor Amen’s book. (He is a celebrity-neurologist.)
https://www.amazon.com/Making-Good-Brain-Great-Performance/dp/1400082099
It kind of increases the density of information that you process, but it doesn’t speed up the acquisition of information. Also Selank is an anxiolytic, therefore you enjoy a deep sense of calm and relaxation while you have a deepened focus while you work. Both are basically neuropeptides, well studied and described, completely safe.
Did you try Semax and/or Selank?
I don’t get the point of keeping Il-96 alive. About one every year is produced. It seems like a huge waste of resources to have people working on such a small scale production. PD-35 is many years from serial production and the quad engine Il-96 is simply very inefficient compared to the competition.
The low scale Tu-204 production is another case I don’t understand. One or two is produced each year. The plane basically fills the same role as MC-21 but it’s just worse in every way. One was produced last year. Surely these workers would be better used for building MC-21, the new modernized Il-76, Il-112 or Superjet?
The more interesting and meaningful question, is how many Hongkies will move to Mainland China, to live and work over the next 10 years?
My guess is far more than will move to the UK. This of course will never be covered by the Western MSM, because it goes against the narrative.
https://www.china-briefing.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Pearl-River-Delta-Greater-Bay-Area-1024×866.jpg
https://www.china-briefing.com/news/the-greater-bay-area-plan-china/
https://macaubusiness.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/GBA_scams01_rgb.jpg
At an official function shout “Salute the marines! Salute the marines you dumb old m-f-er!”
Not yet.
By the way I had an error in a previous comment. The chaos star Dugin has on some of his book covers is close to but not exactly the same as the chaos star that Carroll and Sherwin used back in the hay day of British chaos magic. Their arrow points terminated on a circle. His arrow points terminate on a square.
Somebody should make a chaos star like dealie which sits upon Davinci’s vetruvian man diagram.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0f/f5/fa/0ff5fa13a9027eaecf981655517b2b35.jpg
A little too busy but the right idea.
A sustainable population growth rate (Japan, SK, Singapore are out)
If Deagel is to be believed, Russia is your choice
The naratives are not that important. The CCP loses on every turn and yet here they are.
And the Korean and Japanese pop cultures, they are impressive, but who really cares.
As long as the CCP manages to improve the quality of life for majorities of Chinese, the smart ones take note, and all else will be forgiven, and cooperation of the better minds of Chinese will carry on which means that only the natural ceilings will stop China, like if the smartest is not at the Einstein level.
There has been no new Il-96 released since 2016. There were two Tu-214 delivered last year, but for the SLO (the special flying detachment, that carries the president and other VVIP):
https://russianplanes.net/planelist/Ilushin/Il-96
https://russianplanes.net/planelist/Tupolev/Tu-204/214
Commercially both projects are long dead.
Used to be quite into it. Modafinil has its uses but primarily I’ve found exercise and daily meditation to be much more useful overall. The most useful psychoactive substance for me is basically just caffeine, or the caffeine plus theanine stack of you wish.
As with most supplements, you primarily just get expensive pee.
Okay, that’s good. Looks like I had misunderstood what I had read.
I appreciate all of the comments from @Carlo, @reiner Tor and @Shortsword regarding my airplane questions. Thanks again!
Random Topic: How likely is it that Manatee Mike ordered spiked underwear/mineral water/tea and a spiked pillow at that ruussian hospital to get Navalny unwell?
If the Navalny Gambit is real, it looks like a win
France asks Germany to halt construction of Nord Stream 2 over jailing of Navalny, despite Paris’ growing reliance on Russian gas
After 20+ years of saying otherwise, the new meme is that natural gas is as bad as coal for Global Warming, so shutting down Nord Stream 2 is ok in any case:
Nord Stream 2: Dead in the water despite construction reboot?
Nord Stream 2 getting cancelled wouldn’t have anything to do with Navalny getting imprisoned. It could be the excuse but not the reason.
The Burmese military pulled off a pretty good 3D chess move, They were always going to get massive and continuing political and economic pressure from the West about Aung San Suu Kyi and democracy Even though Military options against Myanmar were never on the table due to proximity to China. So they pretended to ‘cave’ and gave her a title but no actual power.
Then they went and crackeddown on the Rohingya Muslims and put Aung San Suu Kyi in charge of explaining it to her beloved West, which destroyed her credibility and support. Now they finally removed her. The West will need to make their usual noises, but zero substantive actions will be taken, certainly nothing like what they would have carried out without the Rohingya crackdown. 3D chess move by the Burmese military.
I imagine Hong Kongers would favour the US, Australia, Canada, etc. UK would be quite a way down the list I would think.
Middle class Hong Kongers are wealthier and more affluent than the average British person, I think the UK would prove too much of a lifestyle change for them, mostly for the worse.
File under “Nice Country you have got there, shame if it wanted to try to accede to NATO”:
Ukrainian President Zelensky admits he’s ‘angry’ with Trump over leaked phone call, expresses hope Biden will help Kiev join NATO
Probability of that happening should be around 0.
Avi Loeb is doing interviews about Oumuamua.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/astronomer-avi-loeb-says-aliens-have-visited-and-hes-not-kidding1/
I think the probability of him being correct is well over 50%, which is insanely high for the “I’m not saying aliens but it’s aliens” crowd.
The competing explanations are:
Oumuamua is a dust bunny, lighter than air, and its acceleration is powered by invisible gas pushing on the dust. First, please note that in terms of material constraints, you are already in Avi Loeb’s territory – you are talking something very light. Second, when scientists talk about “invisible gas”, please try not to laugh, but the fact is, that means they have no evidence for their hypothesis. Finally, invisible gas emissions were mighty clever as they were able to accelerate Oumuamua without disintegrating it (remember, it’s super light), and without over torquing it and even without altering its tumbling rate. Is it possible? Sure, if you have computer or other intelligent control over the timing and location of the invisible gas thrust. Otherwise, unlikely.
For the record, it doesn’t have to be an alien light sail. It could be a thin, circular piece of reflective insulation discarded from alien surveillance probe. But regardless of the purpose, when natural explanations require you to believe in magic, believing in aliens is a more reality based conclusion.
More like elites of the Dinosaurs. 🙂 Oumuamua was stationary relative to our local star neighborhood and our Solar system ran into it. It is quite possible it was sitting in place for 10’s of millions of years. Exactly what you want the surveillance probe to do, and it hides origin too.
Well we do have a perfectly rational and plausible explanation that works and has been demonstrated and fits with observed acceleration pattern. Photons from the Sun according to Avi Loeb will do the kind of pushing and accelerating that we observed.
But people don’t like it because it makes Omuamua not just light like a dust bunny but also very thin (less than 1 mm thickness as I recall). And that makes people uncomfortable for some reason.
Speaking of exoduses, just how many Afghans do you think will move to the United States of America if/after Afghanistan will ever once again fall to the Taliban under a Democratic US President? What about under a Republican US President?
What are the details of the UK’s new immigration policy?
Also, what about Canada?
It was hard for Trump’s lawyers to actually find good legal arguments in regards to this in any case. Bush Jr.’s lawyers at least managed to come up with the equal protection argument in regards to Florida’s recount in 2000, but even then, they only needed to stop a recount, not to throw out votes that have already been cast and counted.
In my understanding Aung San Suu Kyi is a real patriot who understood that without governmental interference, Rohingyas would be a perennial problem for the Burma. I dont believe that she was played, but that she well understood the risks of her position and willingly took those risks for the welfare of her nation.
It would make sense that the first thing we find of aliens would be discarded trash. Space pollution.
Ok; but considering that France has one of the largest Jewish communities in Europe, that isn’t much.
I wonder if blacks get colon cancer more often because of some adaptation to tropical diseases. Perhaps, their intestines are designed to have greater cell turnover to help shed parasites or something like that.
Russia now says the GDP decline was only 3.1% in 2020. The Ukraine has also improved their forecast to -4.4% from -6%.
Viral video appears to show woman doing aerobics amid Myanmar coup
https://thumbsnap.com/i/DBypApYS.mp4
That’s a very wide road. Very spectacular location.
So who where the three guys on scooters (around 1:25 mark)? Maintenance services personnel? It looked like security told them to step to the side and not go in. I hope they still got paid full day’s wage, having a coup is no excuse to short your wage laborers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uwTnP8ioiU
Bush could hire white-shoe firms for the lawsuits.
Trump can’t do that.
The Swine Right at work.
Chinese involvement in Afghanistan is increasing.
I recall reading it claimed that there is a bigger genetic gap between different types of black Africans, (for example Bantus and Nilo-Saharans) than there is between Western Europeans and East Asians. Is that true? I find that odd because Europeans and East Asians are definitely thought of as two completely distinct races, whereas all black Africans are generally thought of as the same race.
I’ve also seen it argued the Europeanness (whiteness) and East Asianness is basically a geographical West-East continuum, the further East one goes from Western Europe the gradually more East Asian in appearance the people become. So essentially Western Europeans and East Asians represent opposite ends of the same race rather than being separate races.
Looks like Sputnik V is finally accepted as a working vaccine in Western media.
I never got the sense the vaccine was ever doubted, Astra Zeneca and Oxford have openly expressed interest in working with Russia for quite a while now, because my understanding is they’re similar vaccines.
As far as I can see the only reservations over it in the British media are political, and I get the impression it’s the same in Russia in regards to the Astra Zeneca vaccine.
Early on it was. Some of the doubt was perfectly reasonable since it obviously was a publicity stunt to make it the first registered COVID-19 vaccine. But it got more accepted over time. With the latest study that just released it’s finally close to being fully accepted.
OT – good news for Hungary who I believe have ordered it.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/02/sputnik-v-vaccine-has-916-efficacy-against-symptomatic-covid-russian-trial-suggests
Lancet report here
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext
I hope AZ and Sputnik can collaborate, especially as the UK seems to be spawning new variants as fast as vaccines are being approved.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-mutations-found-bristol-liverpool-matt-hancock-b918359.html
https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/959102555417710592
Happy Black History Month
“Russians are POCs” confirmed.
Perhaps too high by an order of magnitude. Sober estimators have P (sport rock) =~ 2/3.
Sport rock is a technical term although the editors of the Dictionary of Geological Terms don’t include it.
UR debates about crypto-Indians (Thulean Friend, etc):
https://i.4cdn.org/biz/1612206280672.jpg
Good chance it’s a sentinel. If that is indeed its purpose, it will have detected technological life on planet Earth, so main question now is how far away any alien presence is (or alien construct that is capable of mounting a response at any rate).
If it has malign intentions, and we stumble into the Age of Malthusian Industrialism – then we are fucked. We are likely fucked either way, actually.
PS. Thanks BTW, just noticed his book has already been published and is already even up on GenLib. I was planning on reading it.
So in Ukraine, Zelensky has banned the TV stations owned by the pro-Russian oligarch Medvedchuk, something Poroshenko never did but that his fans are now applauding. Looks like Zelensky is trying to get Poroshenko’s electorate.
I think this is covered by
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin%27s_Fallacy
At the speed it is going, we have a ~~long~~ time to react.
I would be much more fascinated it came in at 0.5c.
Then again, if it came in at 0.5c it would have passed by so fast that we wouldn’t even have noticed it.
OTOH, if it is a solar sail, the probe will be just behind, a few decades or so.
I have understood that East Asians and Europeans diverged about 20 000 years ago, also theres been some genetic flow between them, at least in some areas of Eurasia, but both populations diverged at least 80 000 years ago from Africans.
Also humans have been longer in Africa than anywhere else, so they have had lots of time to diverge from each other, like Pygmies and Bantus.
What’s the plan? Ukrainian dissatisfaction has risen a lot this year. Pro-Russian media probably amplifies this. But sudden banning of media like this seems like a very hysterical move.
I think the European-Asian divergence was a little older than 20,000 years but you are generally correct. Depending on level
of specificity one prefers, all non-Africans can be considered as one “race”, with there being three races in Africa.
Poroshenko has been gaining on Zelensky, whom Poroshenko portrays as a crypto-pro-Russian. This move undercuts that.
Judging by Facebook posts of people I know in Ukraine (okay, not a very scientific approach), some Poroshenko supporters are saying, “its about time, now cancel yourself you @sshole” while others are pleased and now view Zelensky more positively because he did what Poroshenko shamefully failed to do, shut down the stream of “treasonous” material. I think there is footage of Poroshenko and Medvedchuk together; Zelensky benefits if the waters are muddied with respect to who is more pro-Russian.
https://twitter.com/rihanna/status/1356625889602199552
It’s very fake and gay when Western celebrities start involving themselves in the domestic politics of other countries. From what I can find the majority in India don’t support the tractor protests.
It seems to me that Anglo identity and culture is dying as a distinct entity. White Anglo normies have obviously long given up on anything approximating nationalism and have more or less just accepted multi-racialism and multiculturalism as the natural order of things and the way things are.
Yet even nationalists in Anglo countries rally around pan-white motifs like Jan Sobieski, Viktor Orban, the Reconquista, “Deus vult”, etc, more so than anything actually Anglo. It’s like they feel they’ve been dealt a poor hand in regards to their own culture so try to ride on the coattails of others they see as more impressive or noble.
I found that surprising, normally they get celebrities with ancestry from the country in question to weigh in on their domestic matters. What has a black Barbadian singer got to do with India?
https://twitter.com/KyivPride/status/1356920886570401793
Very epic, the Ukraine!
That’s actually a rather funny joke.
Coincidentally, I watched a YouTube documentary last night that was very damning of all Ukrainian politicians, including of course all former Ukrainian presidents. I don’t know what year it was made, so it didn’t include the current one, who is no doubt just as corrupt as all of the rest. It was damning against all of them, and its basic premise was that all the top political elite has derived its motus operandi from Kuchma who set the ball rolling and set up the rules of the game. All of them. Poroshenko did not come out looking very good, and indeed there were clips of him working with sleazy dirtballs Medvechuk and Yanukovych (he was after all a founding member of the Regionnaires).
Poroshenko seems like the ultimate megalomaniac whose ego drives him relentlessly to pursue money and political power. He is supposedly even an ordained deacon of the Orthodox church, although quite frankly I’ve never seen any photos of him serving in this capacity?
It’s not too bad but it’s still gay. Unsurprisingly KyivPride looks to be funded by Western governments.
https://i.redd.it/lg5ey2bbl2c51.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2rTafbQepg
Wouldn’t be surprised if Rihanna was secretly part Indian. (Guyanese ancestry)
As to Greta, I think covid really took the wind out of her sails, or she aged out of it, so she is looking to latch onto anything at the moment – even large gatherings of diesel engines.
I view Poroshenko as a bit like a Ukrainian Trump, in both good and bad aspects. Although one noted difference is that he has been married to the same woman for over 30 years and has four children with her, so he is not as bad in his family relations at least.
He has done some good things too. He’s helped to elevate the Ukrainian language back to the forefront of society. Paving the way for the Tomos and the independence of the Ukrainian Orthodox church was a good move too. His tax evasion schemes, unfortunately, are par for the course for Ukrainian, if not all politicians, and reveal a darker side of his personality. He liked to position himself as a fighter against corruption, but unfortunately and similarly to his predecessors, no corruptioners of any status were ever prosecuted or put behind bars. This should, in my opinion, be the litmus test used to judge how honest and worthwhile any campaign against corruption succeeds. He failed this important test.
Poroshenko, like Trump, has a history of being a corrupt oligarch who was fine mingling with other corrupt figures (Poroshenko with Yanukovich and Medvedchuk, Trump with the Clintons and Epstein). They both opportunistically took a patriotic approach to successfully grab power, in doing so turning against some of their old “friends.” Both had decent track records while in power, oversaw significant economic growth and pursued patriotic policies (Poroshenko more than Trump) and both faced a mass media in enemy hands that served as constant propaganda against them. Both ultimately failed to overcome this and both were voted out of office – Poroshenko losing far worse than Trump.
All high ranking politicians in the former USSR are corrupt. There’s perhaps the Estonian exception, but it is too small a country to change thr overall outlook. This is simply due to the fact that all these people, regardless of their nationality are a byproduct of late Soviet nomenklatura, party apparat, komsomol and/or perestroika criminalized business circles. The only difference between these politicians is that some of them build something, while other just destroy what is left of the Soviet economic and social structures.
https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1357002509697622020
Has Zelensky started panicking now that his approval rating has fallen down?
Agree, with the possible exception with Poroshenko being the victim of a media in “enemy hands”. Channel 5 is a huge broadcasting station in Ukraine (that he owns), and he probably owns some other smaller, regional radio/TV stations too. It’s actually a good thing that he doesn’t control even more media outlets, IMHO. 🙂
True, but then Trump had Fox and some small ones like Newsmax. But in both cases they were heavily outnumbered.
I’m reading Morse Peckham (how have I never heard of this brilliant man before?), who writes extensively and brilliantly about Romanticism, which more and more I think holds the clue to our current cultural problems.
To summarize (completely inadequately), Peckhams views –
Romanticism was basically the perception that the traditional culture of Europe was no longer satisfactory, could no longer provide a sense of value, that the received pattern of cultural transmission no longer sustained value.
Although the Enlightenment only burst on the scene in the 18th century, its implicit idea, that the human mind could access reality (the “thing in itself”), and derive order and value from it, was the implicit assumption of Western culture. Society – all of life – could be organized on perfectly rational grounds that derive its value from nature itself.
But the Enlightenment collapsed in the 19th century, when it was seen that nature (the thing in itself) could not be the basis of value, because mankind cannot know the thing in itself – or could not know that it knows. The French Revolution showed that reason cannot organize society.
The Romantics tried to find a new source of value- they saw that the old source of value in European culture, that mankind can know nature and derive order and value from it, was no longer sustainable. The Romantics went about the task of dismantling the relieved cultural pattern in their various ways.
But the Romantics were sorrowful, not joyous – none of them actually found a final ground of value. They kept on searching and Romanticism went through various stages, which are fascinating in their own right, but none succeeded in grounding life’s value, and none succeeded in providing a basis for action.
Finally, the solution was found by Nietzsche- who perceived that it is the very search for value that causes sorrow. The search for value is the search for finality, for some ground from which one can stand outside of life and move it. But what if life is constant becoming and has no ground?
Life has no value, no ground. As long as one searches for value, one is sorrowful. Giving up the search for a ground leads to – joy. But does this provide any basis for action? Yes, but it is a different kind of action. You know the sense of value is an illusion – so now action becomes play. You create value and destroy value.
And so Western culture, the culmination of Romanticism, discovered the joy of Mahayana Buddhism, its sense that life is meaningless and without value, that it is all illusion, and how this leads to play- and joy.
However, Western culture as a whole did not finalize this transition, and is still trying to find the ground of value (Woke nonsense, conservatives obsessing over the “natural order”) and is thus obviously very from joy and play.
Or rather, the transition was stopped halfway. The rerardedness of Woke is not in perceiving that gender for instance is an illusion – gender is an illusion. But in then seeking to discover ground value in one’s “real” gender! In the very act of being liberated from gender, they imprison themselves anew.
One can extend this principle of analysis throughout our entire culture..
As I understand it, in addition to having one major station, Fox has many regional sub stations. I get two of the local variants here in Phoenix, one through the airwave’s that is basically just another station, and one through what Samsung offers in their lineup within my flat screen TV. Although this second variation is political in nature, it often looks and sounds like any other liberal outlet. It looks to me like Fox has veered more to the center (left) than what I remember in the past. What do you think?
For all we know, the aliens may already be half way through the Oort cloud, reading the probe flyby results and hi fiving each other with tentacles. 🙂
The aliens might be already among us.
Meanwhile, human civilization critical mission just passed phase D review. NASA Psyche mission has been cleared for assembly and launch.
https://scitechdaily.com/nasas-psyche-mission-to-explore-a-metal-rich-asteroid-passes-key-milestone/
While I’m very supportive of Moon and Mars exploration missions and I think great science can (and should) be done there, the future of humanity will be in places like the moons of Jupiter and asteroid belt.
Those places have more liquid water, organic molecules, and metals, than planet Earth itself. It isn’t about how many quadrillions of dollars Psyche is worth, mere money is irrelevant. It is about structures you can melt from it once you bring large nuclear power plants and mining lasers over. Psyche is key to the future of humanity in ways not usually emphasized (contrast that with Musk vision of large Mars city which is more hype than what will actually happen, and I say that as a supporter of Musk vision and I think that research station on Mars is a must have).
Those Russian SPT 140 plasma accelerators better work as advertised! 🙂
Possibly, although judging by her appearance I’d say if she has any Indian ancestry it’s very minimal.
I am confused by Greta supporting the farmer protests in India, allegedly exposing her as a puppet of the international Congress party conspiracy.
I thought that ZOG was on the side of the ‘reforms’ and against the farmers.
Protests are assumed to be a for a good cause unless you’re explicitly told that the protestors are evil. That seems to be the typical naive mindset.
This certainly may be the case for some, but it doesn’t have to be so. Take the young and powerful ruler, who comes to Jesus asking him for advice as to what he needed to do to insure that we would attain eternal life? When Jesus told him that all that was left for him to do was to sell all of his possessions and give the proceeds to the poor, it stopped the ruler straight in his path, and caused him great sorrow and to make a quick U-turn back to his old domain, for he loved his material possessions and found them more attractive than higher spiritual values (Luke 18:18). I know that you’re one who holds material possessions in little regard, and think that you would find this sermon very enlightening. Of course, I’ve only summarized it here, and there’s a lot more going on, that I think you’d enjoy reading it (if you haven’t already).
Perhaps, the protest culture of Southern Europe is related to the way that higher-density living (higher in the South than North) may have influenced DNA.
Specifically, how there were probably bigger crowds of proles in Southern Europe, in cities. A higher prole-to-aristocrat ratio, so maybe, it was harder to crush the peasants in the South, but easier in the North, so that’s why Northerners seem so compliant and non-confrontational towards their government in modern times, but Southerners seem to be able to raise a ruckus.
Thanks.
To me, the original Christian message is basically to not take the world seriously – it has little value. The pagan Romans had ended by becoming very serious, dull, heavy people- there was no joy left in the ancient world.
If you look at what Jesus actually says, he is basically a counter-culture hero. He says not to care about all the things respectable bourgeois people do.
What he is doing, is dismantling the transmitted cultural pattern, like the Romantics were doing later.
A cultural pattern creates order – but periodically, we have to destroy order. Because cultural patterns are mans attempt to ground his being in some value, and eventually, that value is discovered to be hollow.
In Europe, the search for truth led to the discovery that we cannot discover truth. Kant showed how logic results in antinomies- two antithetical propositions that are equally tenable. The old ground of value – truth- was discovered to be hollow. This was the culmination of the old European culture.
The Romantics tried to put humpty dumpy together again – discover a new ground of value. The triumph of Romanticism was to discover that it could not discover a ground of value – and to finally see that the search was unnecessary.
Grounding life in some value, like truth, is a mere verbal construct. It is not llfe itself. When you see that the search for value stands in the way of life itself, the spell is broken. Zen had a similar insights- that language can be a disease we must rescue ourselves from.
From the 18th century onwards, Europe may be making its most momentous transition – away from grounding itself in some value, and towards life as play. To me, this would be the first time Europe became Christian. Not the centuries of warfare and wealth accumulation.
I don’t really watch TV and don’t have cable so I can’t speak to Foxnews’ transformation.
FYI: I don’t have cable either, but I did at one point and remember Fox news within it truly being a bell weather for rightwing Republican viewpoints. Not so much anymore. Because you have access to Newsmax (I don’ t think that its broadcast through the airwaves), I’m thinking that you get it through the free channel offerings that Samsung offers (similar to cable TV), you could possibly access a Fox station. It’s not the same as the one that used to sponsor Kelly Megan and Sean Hannity. I think that the latter is still around, although not on the Samsung offering of Fox.
Haven’t been following the situation closely – would like to get @ melanf’s take, if he’s watching.
https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1357106561382977538
Not melanf but my family are his neighbors I think (he is in St Petersburg, yes?), and my dad said they need a doctors appointment to get vaccinated. They haven’t done it yet. He is not young and chain smokes like crazy. So there may be some concerns for people with health risks, and there are a lot of those people in Russia (my dad isn’t the only walking chimney over there). If that’s representative, doing vaccination through individual doctor evaluation and monitoring will take significantly longer compared to mass meat market clinic in and out approach.
A map of human genetic divergence and convergence:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Homo_sapiens_lineage.svg/1200px-Homo_sapiens_lineage.svg.png
Your devotion to “play” and its image for you as a sort of modern day form of Christianity is perplexing?
Most important things in life are usually only achieved with much struggle and sacrifice and is inherent in the different stages of Theosis. Your musing here sound more like a simple pursuit of pleasure, otherwise know as hedonism. Perhaps Europe and this new devotion to play is just an embracing of the Epicurean ideal? Actually, with your advocation of the simple life, I think that you represent the ideal sort of Epicurean.
Russia isn’t sending millions of vaccines to Mexico. Not right now anyway. Plenty of countries have ordered tens of millions of vaccines from Russia but they have only been sent a few hundred thousands at most. Production is still slow.
Its so typical of you, to preach nihilism for others, but I believe that you would never preach same things to Israelis. What else nihilism is than defeatism? Just give up and try to find happiness from momentary sensory experiences. Just give up as a human and become an animal.
Though Mleccha originally meant a non-Indic barbarian invader, in a Buddhist literature it has a bit different meaning or meanings. (Some) Muslims or materialist nihilists are both Mlecchas. One who does not believe in the Moral Law of the universe is a Mleccha. Some Muslims were seen as Mlecchas, because their god was seen as amoral.
Though your (spiritual) kin reigns now supreme, there are still people who desperately are trying to find meaning, you cant stop them, they will break through your lies.
Dont worry one day you will be freed from the clutches of your malevolent god(in a metaphoric sense). Its only a matter of time. Christ and various other good beings will forever toil for your redemption. You are not alone.
To others, if truth is not found in the things in itself, and the nature of things arises from their dependent nature, then only way to gain salvation is to help others and in the process heal oneself, for a being does not exist in vacuum, but in dependence with other beings, their states of being are reflected on you, for you and them exist only in relation with each other. When being starts to see reality, not from the narrow perspective of our grasping ego, but from the perspective of dependent nature, he will gain a greater insight into the nature of things, he will see then how things truly are. Therefore correct or moral way of living is connected with the greater understanding of the nature of our reality, only by good deeds we will gain a true wisdom, and something better, everlasting happiness.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
-Matthew 5:8
All wisdom that I have uttered, is not mine or from me, but wisdom of beings who are truly divine or saintly. My thinking is more base and aggressive, but at least I try to arise from my animal state(in a metaphoric sense), unlike some others.
Btw Aaron, you never replied to my comments here: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/tractor-protest-in-india/#comment-4439593
Black history month – cool, politcorrect, educational.
White history month – verbotten, racist, ignorant.
But it needs to be noted, that if there is one single thing that black and white racists perfectly agree upon, it is that “single drop of blood” theory, which really in practice does nothing but reduces white stock, therefore strict white racists are dumbest people alive&dead for perpetuating it after the end of legal black slavery.
Would you please provide the link to the article for this map?
.
The Kosher variety of an Epicurean.
I found through googleimage; it’s from the human evolution wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
I’m somewhat surprised that censors have not removed the information that some African populations are partially of archaic human descent.
Personally, I kinda wish that we would find homo erectus in some Javanese jungle, and a guilty pleasure at the idea of some unscrupulous (Chinese?) scientists cloning successfully a Neanderthal or other cousin.
Why? So we could have jungles or nature reserves with them? So that they could be in a state of shock when meeting with us? With us humans, unlike with dogs or horses, we have not just our blood, but our cultural memory with us, Neanderthal or Erectus without its speech and culture would be very different from ancient extinct human races, more like a retard Human, at least in the case of Erectus.
Or maybe we could interbreed erectuses with Africans and create an ideal menial breed of humans, hahhaha, just a silly joke.
https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1357305127565225984
Why did the approval rating suddenly dump early-mid 2020? It must be something pandemic related. But then just a few months later it went up again almost as fast.
Well, that whole mental framework- that the best things in life are achieved through struggle – there is another attitude possible.
Taoism suggests we live according to the principle of “wu wei” – literally, “not doing”, but what it actually suggests is action that isn’t forced, that aligns itself with the cosmos and does not struggle against the grain. For Taoism, the highest life is effortless.
I see analogies with Christian submission to God’s will, which many have found peace in.
But my primary meaning is a change in attitude. If one struggles, one does so unseriously – without caring about the consequences. Paradoxically, this can unleash total commitment, as you are unhampered by anxiety or hesitation.
The Japanese know this style of total commitment.
But action without serious concern for consequences is a form of play.
As for pleasure and Epicureanism, the terms are misleading. Everyone pursues pleasure as he understands it. The person struggling hard to achieve something is pursuing his notion of pleasure (that will usually arrive in the future). He may be unhappy in the moment, but he is convinced his mighty struggle will pay off in future pleasure and satisfaction.
Epicureanism is distinguished by a particular vision of pleasure, not by the pursuit of pleasure per se. And indeed, Epicureans have a very refined idea of the good life that is very far from the vulgar misrepresention of them as gluttons devoted to physical pleasures.
In fact, Epicureans avoided excessive physical pleasure. One of their main concerns seems to have been to avoid pain. Their attitude was not joyous embrace, but fatigue and resignation – all ancient philosophies, like Stoicism, while having positive aspects, were forms of resignation and fatigue – that is why Christianity, which restored enthusiasm and joy, swept them all away.
The notion of struggling to achieve important things is based on a particular metaphysic. That the world needs to be “fixed” (that we can achieve a state of total “good”, either here or in heaven). A different metaphysic – that opposites exist in a polar relationship, and are two terms of a single thing, that good and bad depend on each other, yields the notion that the world isn’t “going anywhere”, but is perfect as is.
This results in a different kind of action- instead of the anxious, serious concern to achieve total good, it is action not from lack, but from joyous exuberance – play.
Well, what is meaning? It is that life points to something beyond itself. The meaning of a word is what it refers to.
What does life point to beyond itself – that is the meaning of life? It is simply a state in which all that humans think is bad about life is eliminated. That is what every Heaven and Nirvana symbolize – a state of total satisfaction, pleasure, and omnipotence.
Your suffering has “meaning” – it is necessary to reach a state beyond all suffering. Your trials and tribulations have “meaning” – they lead to a place beyond that.
And yet I am the one being accused of being a hedonist 🙂
But what if one perceives that a state of total good is in principle impossible, because opposites exist in a polar relationship, are terms of a single entity.
In other words, the meaning of life is already achieved in each moment. Good and evil are not antagonists but exist in a polar relationship. If you want good, you want evil. If you want pleasure, you want pain. As Lao Tzu says – the moment beauty is invented, there is ugliness. The moment virtue is invented, there is immorality.
(In fact Taoism stresses a lot that self-conscious virtue is not real virtue. Yet this is the kind cultivated by all religions).
This is why in Mahayana Buddhism, they say Nirvana is Samsara, and there is no difference between the two. Nirvana is not another state, but a mode of perception- and perhaps a lifestyle. And this is why the Buddha says he has not gained anything by becoming a Budddha – there is nothing to be gained from the workd, nothing to be grasped at.
Nihilism is simply the suffering one feels at wanting life to have a meaning- a “for” – and finding it has none. It is self chosen suffering. John Gray writes about how wartime journalists, who have witnessed the most horrific things, have written him that his books have released them from the torture of trying to find meaning in it all. Which, if we are honest, cannot be done. No subtlety of theology can convince us the horrific cruelty we see is “justified” and has a “purpose”.
As for giving up as a human and being as an animal, a human is just a type of animal. No need to be like any other animal. Just be like the human animal. I have always felt a great kinship with animals, and have never felt the supposedly great divide that separates us from them.
I used to love to read the Call of The Wild and the Jungle Books, and recently John Gray published a most excellent book on the philosophy of cats, if they have one (and they surely do), in which he shows what we humans can learn from cats, that most profound animal.
As for Israel, I like the place very much- but I don’t think it has any ultimate value. It just happens to be a cool and interesting place with a cool lifestyle and interesting people – for the time being. And I have a connection to it. But I don’t invest it with any sacred status.
Unfortunately, the world is ruled by your spiritual kin not mine – people who take things seriously indeed, are angry and gloomy all the time,always want “more” and to be “superior”, preening themselves on their moral superiority.
Not my laughing indifference 🙂
Orthodox Christians actually enter the Kingdom of Heaven whenever they start their voyage on the road to Theosis. It’s a process that starts in this life and progresses into the next one.
On the topic of exuberance and play (that I believe in), I’m guessing that you’ve put off your trip to Arizona because of the inclement winter weather? Don’t forget to update us once you visit and play within the confines of the Apache Trail in AZ.
You once admitted that your didn’t have a very well developed understanding of Orthodox Theosis., to which I offered you a link to a very well written short tract that offers a wonderful outline of the process. Did you ever get an opportunity to read it? I can reenter the link for you if need be?
Merkel wants the EU to produce Russian vaccine Sputnik V
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/07/covid-vaccine-merkel-open-to-producing-russia-sputnik-in-the-eu.html
Selfish old hag wants real vaccine for herself, not Pfizer or Moderna fakes.
Now, now Bashibuzuk, is there really any need for your snide remark? AaronB always offers an intelligent response defending his positions, and doesn’t really much use his Jewish heritage as a crutch to fall back on, and only talks about it when really provoked. Some of our really “high IQ” Armenians also seem value his input here. In fact, sometimes I think that the both of you share some interesting similarities – both of you seem to have some difficulties with the Abrahamic religions and are more drawn towards Eastern religions and zen…
The linked article is almost a month old. Nonetheless, there’s been plenty of calls to make it happen since yesterday when the study came out.
“Israel has no ultimate value,” I was not asking that you sly snake. Of course it has no ultimate value to you, but it has a value to you, or do you deny this? Ultimate value and value are quite different things.
Ano4 correctly said that you are an Icchantika. Only a direct intervention of Awakened One can awaken such deluded being from his state. I have not much more to say, because with you theres nothing else than stasis and repetition. You just again and again repeat the same old arguments, if you want again my same Buddhist counter arguments, you can check my old comments.
Though I must confess that after our discussions I have found that theres something good even in such crazy doctrine as the Intersectional theory, before I laughed when I heard about stuff like Cultural Appropriation, but thanks to you, I now understand that there are people who use and abuse others authentic cultural and philosophical traditions, so that they could dress their own half botched ideas in something more exotic than their own banal existence and narcissism.
I dont mind being an Ichantikka 🙂 I no longer want to be part of the superior/inferior game, where I strive to be spiritually superior to others. I hope I dont become “awakened” – sounds like it gives one a real big head 🙂
That is for religious people. As Taoism advises, the best places are the lowest places, and one should be like water and seek the low places. And as another hero of mine, Montaigne, says – I want an ordinary life without lustre.
I leave to you the quest for superiority.
Of course Israel has proximate, limited value for me. Lots of things do. I enjoy life. It just doesn’t have great or ultimate value – nothing does. To say that life has no ground or value does not mean one shouldn’t enjoy what one does. It just means one shouldn’t take them too seriously.
As for Cultural Appropriation, there are no pure cultures. Everyone influences everyone. In fact it can be said that it is the task of each generation to borrow and adapt those elements of other cultures that one needs, and perhaps transform them in the process.
That being said, our disagreements stem more from the fact that we are not discussing the same schools of Buddhism- Chan is really more of a Buddhist heresy, a dismantling of Buddhism, than traditional religious Buddhism.
I agree doing so would be morally wrong, I am simply a fan of diversity and would find it very interesting. Presumably homo erecti would have some sort of a society, if found in the jungle.
Find me a proper Mahayana source where it is said that from the view of Mahayana Chan/Dhyana school is heresy. All Mahayana is heresy from the viewpoint of the Theravada school, but there is no legit school of Mahayana which holds Chan as a heresy.
Superiority? Inferiority? Im not anymore following you, such silly concepts mean nothing when you are trying to get out from the burning house, or from prison, Icchantika is someone who wants to stay in the prison, he cant even fathom that there is anything else than his dear prison.
Hahhaha, Taoism is how you can get “a real big head,” literally.
Eh, the burning house is an illusion. The prison is an illusion. There is no point in trying to get out of what doesn’t exist.
I have no desire to attain to anything. I leave that to you and religious people.
I have no idea if mainstream Mahayana Buddhism thinks Chan is heretical. The general practice of mainstream culture towards heretical movements is to coopt them, redefine them, and claim they are part of the mainatream. They try and neutralize them and take the sting out of their iconoclastic originality. In this way Christianity became a religion of war and wealth accumulation. Man turns everything to his uses.
Thats why it is said, the right doctrine in the hands of the wrong person becomes false, the wrong doctrine in the hands of the right person becomes true.
I only claim that Chan does dismantle Buddhism as a question of objective fact.
But each person must discover this for himself.
Sure, I’ll read your link on theosis. I like Orthodoxy for its mystery and aesthetics. Its my favorite form of Christianity.
I just dont think I am cut out for religion. I have the mystics conviction that what traditional religion seeks, is already our inheritance, and seeking takes us further from it.
Still, I enjoy and appreciate the aesthetics and mystery of religious ritual and practice and enjoy being in a religious atmosphere. I also see many teachings in religions that hint at my viewpoint. Problems begin for me when friends and family try and make me practice religion seriously.
As for travel, its still on hold, but I expect to leave fairly soon. Thanks!
I’m not following, could you elaborate. Thanks.
Is an old age illusion? Is the decay of our body illusion? Is disease an illusion? People like you, are those who cry most when hit. Though if you would be steadfast in your logic, you would not even flinch.
I very well get your deranged logic, from the time of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche we have had our share of Westerners who have totally misunderstood us.
Lack of self, and lack of God, does not equal lack of purpose or lack of meaning, thats what Mr. Hack gets majorly wrong about you. You have very little problems with the logic of Abrahamic religions, you are indeed some one who is very much locked in the paradigm of Abrahamic religion.
Chan as a tradition, has its origins in the practices of ancient Sarvastivada school of Kashmir. Chan as a word is just Chinese transliteration of Sanskrit word Dhyana. Sarvastivadins are unanimously thought to be representatives of very Orthodox form of Mahayana, no one has ever disputed that, even my school Gelugpa is partly descended from them.
Chan/Zen school in East Asia was born when Parthian nobleman and a monk of the Sarvastivada school, An Shigao translated Dhyana Sutras to Chinese, almost 2000 years ago, which are known by the name of Chan/Zen Sutras in East Asia.
I think Aaron could explain it to you, after all we are talking about something which is very elementary knowledge in Taoism, and he is one of those who have found the way, by constantly cultivating his Qi. Oh Im kidding, he knows nothing about it.
In actual Taoism of China, and not how those American self help books tell you, people have tried through millenia find ways to preserve their life energy. One of the best ways is by retaining your manly life force Jing or in lay mans terms ‘semen,’ and channeling it to your head, which is why you can see sometimes in Chinese porcelains and paintings old men with huge and tall heads.
https://www.onmarkproductions.com/assets/images/jurojin-Ogata-Korin.jpg
https://collectionapi.metmuseum.org/api/collection/v1/iiif/63807/1895363/main-image
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BFRDHP/statue-of-shou-the-chinese-god-of-longevity-tiger-balm-gardens-theme-BFRDHP.jpg
Yes 🙂
In Chan, the aim is not to be a “stone Buddha” or a superman, or a Stoic. If you feel the urge to cry out in pain when hit, do so. That is natural. That is human nature.
There is even a story about a Zen master who is admired for how he cried naturally out when he was being murdered.
You keep on coming back to me with examples of how my philosophy will not result in one becoming “superior” in some fashion or other – to which I reply, precisely 🙂
Try and understand- Chan is done once and for all with this whole scheme of trying to become superior that seems to be the preoccupation of mainstream society.
In Chan, your “true” nature is cotermimous with the mountains and rivers – how can one become superior in such a scheme?
But I cannot tell you to not try and become superior if you feel the urge to. I’m just explaining a perspective that appeals to me.
In China, Taoism became divided into two movements. What is now called religious Taoism did indeed become obsessed with immortality and elixirs and in many ways was a traditional religion that built the ego through practices and cultivation, like mainstream Buddhism.
What is called philosophical Taoism is the original writings of Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, and perhaps Lieh Tzu. In these writings death is embraced as merely one more transformation and not to be feared at all.
Philosophical Taoism has almost nothing to do with religious Taoism, but the mass of mankind need a religion.
Similar developments occurred in Buddhism, where the mass made a religion that in many ways was the complete opposite of the original philosophy.
But that is par for the course – same thing happened with Christianity.
Yes, you are correct that they are illusions, but why, can you explain? They are conventionally true, but not in ultimate sense, why it is so, and whats the difference between two truths? Its one thing to claim something and another thing to really understand something.
Once again, there is no superior or inferior, you are not seeing my or Mahayanas logic at all if you think that this is about superiority. There are different ways to perceive reality, one way is that the nature of all dharmas(with a small d) is same, why they are same? Because they all are transient, without their own nature, they all are dependent. But its one thing to say so and really see reality as such, do you really claim that you have achieved such level of single point concentration(Samatha/Zhi) that you see phenomena as non-composite?
My problem with your philosophy is that you claim understanding which you have not.
I hope that you had a good translation and teacher, as I have explained, our mind does not have separate existence from the objects of our mind, mind cant exist without mental objects, mind exists only in dependence with something. Ones true nature is ones dependent nature, not in the objects themselves.
Ah, now I understand your logic, its the same as Wahhabis, born from pride, so you really think that you have a better understanding of Tao and Dharma, than the Ancient Chinese and Indians had? That somehow, even through various translations and changing of ages, you Aaron of the modern era, can better understand ancient Chinese texts than the Ancient Chinese could? Okay, now I have had enough, some people are just… touched by angels, or blessed in their (spiritual)megalomania…
Oh well, I had a cursory look of your comments, and it seems that you are extremely preoccupied with such questions as politics, race and inequality, what a hypocrite you are. As I once said, at one moment you are a pharisee who takes everything literally, and in another moment you are a nihilist, for whom there is no meaning,
you just impulsively change your position, when it suits you.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9e/a9/bf/9ea9bf66023001bbc6ac04c3b8dadb3c.jpg
The scholarly consensus among Chinese and Western scholars is that religious Taoism has very little to do with philosophical Taoism. Pre-modern Chinese scholarship likewise.
Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, and Lieh Tzu are full of passages that see death as nothing to be feared, and even to be welcomed as natural. It is the opposite of the later concern with the elixir of life.
People can make up their own minds by reading these wonderful books – which everyone should do.
Your appeals to authority (not applicable in this case anyways) I always find to come from a deeply alien mentality- I confess I find it almost incomprehensible. To me, textual interpretation must follow certain rules of good logic – look at the entire context, consiatency, develop a feel for the author, etc.
I guess this is an example of the worst tradition of what used to be called Oriental fanaticism and despotism, and is an attempt to kill thought and independence, and impose despotism.
It is moments like this that remind me of how as much as I find high level Asian philosophy to be the freest and most liberating writing, mainstream Asian culture often degenerates into a stupid despotism.
We use language to divide the world into individual things- to differentiate things. We then think those things exist – and can die. But there is only the unborn whole.
But since language creates the illusion to begin with, intellectual explanations just perpetuate the problem. One must step out of the realm of language and intellectual explanation.
Instead of intellectually explaining why our perception of individual things is an illusion, better to simply step out of the realm of language and intellectual altogether.
So Chan doesn’t try and explain – it tries to coax you out of language and contrived intellectual explanation altogether.
The very need to explain and understand is seen as the problem.
No meditation or special effort required. In Chan, the more you seek for it the further it recedes from your grasp.
To see phenomena as non-composite, is not a positive achievement- it is merely to stop casting the conceptual net of language onto the world.
This experience is called Emptiness – it is actually a full richness, but empty of words. To see phenomena as non-composite is to not to have an intellectual experience of understanding.
From the Chan perspective, you are on the wrong path.
Lol, there is nothing in my position that says I should not dabble in politics.
It amazes me that you still do not understand me.
Why do you believe that Aaron would not advocate among Israelis the positions that he advocates here (for readers of all ethnicities, as far as I can tell)?
Is that because, being a Jew, he must be evil or do you have any more elaborate reasons for that belief of yours?
I have never perceived the slightest hint that his opinions (right or wrong) are aimed at any particular group of people.
FWIW, I read a translation of the Tao Te Ching when I was a teenager and what AaronB says about Taoism sounds perfectly consistent with what I remember of that book.
You have often written about Taoism, and I have not often defended it, for its not my religion and my knowledge about it is severely lacking, but even with my limited knowledge your bs is some times too much and I have tried to defend.
There is no such consensus outside of some western authors.
Also Taoism did not exist in vacuum, its philosophy was from very beginning intimately linked with Chinese “magical” or “shamanic” practices, like divination, and with such concepts as five elements, Ying-Yang and their balance.
Laozi himself was a Fangshi, which is somekind of shamanist, ritual specialist
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fangshi
Once again we can discern that your understanding comes from the people such Alan Wallace, but for some idiotic reason you think that modern western authors are somehow free of their own cultural baggage and can interpret ancient texts better than those who lived in the same cultural and religious milieu as ancient Taoist masters. Im not appealing to authority, but to logic and realism. For it seems that you are severely lacking common sense. Conveying proper meaning from ancient texts, that were born during very different circumstances than your own is not easy at all, even translation of Russian 19th century novels to English, greatly changes their meaning profoundly, and its very different experience for a reader to read them in English than in Russian.
Oh well you hypocrite, what you would think if I would read Talmud in English and then claim that one does not need Rabbinic tradition for the correct understanding of Talmud? You cant say that my understanding is wrong, or that I would need some education for understanding the Talmud.
To me you are a guy who is in prison of his own making, and cant at all see the endless possibilities and vastness of Dharma.
But our philosophy goes much further than language, you think that in Buddhism language is an illusion, something that we are attached too strongly, and which gives birth to illusions or false mental concepts that deceive us and deny us the possibility to see reality as it is. Ha ha ha, you dont go far enough, you should go further. Animals dont have a language, but according to the Buddha they live in greater ignorance than us, our false understanding is not just because of the language, its because we have a mistaken understanding of our own nature, that we have a separate self and nature from the rest of the reality, even if we would not have language, and would be like dumb beasts, we would still have pain, stress, suffering states of existence, we would still live in confusion about our true nature. Language is often problem, but its not the root of the problem. Or do you claim that animals can see reality as non-composite?
You are again rehashing your old and patently false arguments in a different package, theres never been a master of Chan without lineage and master, Bodhidharma, Hui Neng were both monks and had their own masters. You are completely mad if you think that any master of Chan would accepted your way of Chan as valid.
Where I said that your position forbids you to dabble in politics? I just claim that your position is highly incoherent.
But your discussions show that there are many things that you take deeply seriously.
Also how you discern between a good and bad political positions? Are you not then judging their value? Discerning what is good and what is bad?
Though you are 99% of time wrong, I am the real idiot, because of my pride and attachment to Buddhism I cant to stop arguing with you, we are just two fools locked in this futile state.
Hello Mikel, it would be nice to hear about you, if you would not straight away try to divert our discussion to something which is not elementary or crucial in our debate.
Our debates with Aaron have gone for a quire long time, and in that period I have learned that he had a rabbi who taught him, and that he has a strong attachment to Israel. But he often advocates to many people here that they should stop trying and just let things to be. Israel which in my opinion is quite virile and martial state, would disappear if they would follow Aarons advice, and I think that Aaron knows it, thats why I think that he is hypocritical. Also, though its slight, one can trace notes of chauvinism in him, like once he wrote how intelligent and special people supported Soviet Union in USA in 20s or 30s, or something like that, but Soviet Union was not really popular during that time in USA, except among Jewish immigrants from the Eastern Europe and Black socialist intellectuals. Or that one time when he claimed that Freuds teachings resemble Buddhism.
Mikel have you anything substantial to say? Once again anti-semitism is not a position that Buddhist can hold, to think that Jews have some kind of permanent evil nature in them, that they are essentially bad. There are no permanent essences in Buddhist philosophy, and I have said on this site worse things about Japanese and Poles, horrible things, and no one is complaining?
Hey Blinky Bill, Daniel Chieh, any Chinese here? Please can you explain how hard or nigh impossible is conveying meaning from Classical Chinese to English or Spanish. The Taoist concepts are intimately linked with Ancient Chinese culture, every translation of Tao Te Ching, is a new book, do you guys understand how much translators take poetic liberties? ESPECIALLY WITH SUCH BOOKS. I think Im an arrogant guy, but you guys, what the hell? Lots of original meaning is lost when translating from modern Chinese or Japanese, but you guys think that 2500 year old Chinese book from an alien and distant cultural milieu can easily be translated.
I literally believe that Aaron will be a one day a Buddha. A supreme sage in our world, a perfect being. Hows that thinking of “he must be evil?”
Aaron I will not continue this debate(I will try…), your form of Taoism and Buddhism is taken out from context, ripped away from their profound meaning, for some reason you are not just self confident enough to stand(metaphorically) on your own two legs. So you need to appropriate something more exotic than your own bland ego.
You claim that you have a better understanding than the masters of Chan, because they fell down into “Asian despotism” or something, but in my opinion such position is paradoxical, there is no Chan outside of the people, you have once again created your own false god.
Im an asshole, full of pride and arrogance, there is little good in me, but I know who are my spiritual superiors and who are worthy of respect and offerings. I have correctly discerned my own nature, but you are in such confusion that you have made god out of your own ego.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/d6/7c/cad67cf0a3cbf396ffbe329675a6f72e.jpg
I am not sure what we are arguing about here.
The important point are the ideas themselves, whether they are interesting and worthwhile.
To get bogged down on whether they are accurate interpretations of Chan strikes me as irrelevant. Let us call them one man’s interpretation of Chan. Perhaps they are ideas inspired by my reading of Chan texts.
If these ancient writers came back and told me that I completely misunderstood them, it wouldn’t affect whether these ideas are worthwhile or not. Perhaps it was a fruitful and serendipitous misunderstanding – perhaps not. That is to be decided on separate grounds.
The debate about what is accurate interpretations of Buddhism cannot be resolved. Each man must decide for himself. It is a fruitless debate. Religious schisms are endless and pointless.
You seem to want the imprimatur of authority and correctness, and want to belong to a community of respectable people who are in the majority. You want to wrap yourself in the safety of recieved authority, tradition, correctness, and respectability.
I dont really care if my ideas are correct interpretations of Chan – I care if they are interesting and can help anyone live better. Since we seem interested in different things – I in the ideas themselves, and you in respectability and authority and correctness – there is no real need for me to insist that my interpretations are correct. I yield to you the high ground.
If I am in error, it seems to me it is a fruitful error to be in. These ideas did not occur to me on my own, or at least I was not able to articulate them on my own, but only through reading Chan texts. Thank you then, Chan, for inspiring in me a fruitful error 🙂
There’s an immense possibility for crude jokes here
Altan be like: प्रतीत्यसमुत्पाद
Also, Aaron be like:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/e6/da/66/e6da6618a14ff7f285bb6ba754a544d7–jeff-bridges-gag.jpg
Seinfeld-tier entertainment…
Unless, of course, the meaning of प्रतीत्यसमुत्पाद can only be understood within its own cultural time frame and in its own language, what does it mean?
One of the core Buddhist concepts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da
After being beaten by the Maoist Red Guards, Great Master Xu Yun (Empty Cloud), who was at that point some hundred years old, was left for dead. Xu Yun was an enlightened master. His enlightenment, which he experienced when he was around 60 years old- was certified by his monastic superiors. He was also, among the most respected Buddhist teachers of the time in the Chinese cultural realm.
When the Communist thugs left his room, Xu Yun was able to sit in meditation for a very long period. He was so still and quiet that his disciples were unsure that he was still alive. But he finally came back healed and restored from his transe.
When asked about what he saw during his transe, he said that he had a vision of Avalokita Bodhisattva instructing numerous other Bodhisattvas about codependent origination.
A very deep and important concept.
https://bodhibass.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/xuyun-large-e1542385344270.jpg
I was thinking about why the counter-culture of the 60s failed, and it helped me clarify some ideas about the proper role of a counter-culture for me.
The problem with the 60s counter-culture was that it tried to become the mainstream – it tried to become the prestige culture.
But the prestige culture of the day necessarily attracts those primarily interested in status – it attracts not just the frauds and social climbers, but the dull average conservative men, concerned with authority and correctness, who cannot understand spiritual freedom or finesse.
But a proper counter-culture must always remain a refuge from the mainstream for sensitive and intelligent men – it can never seek to become the main source of respectability.
Another reason is that the 60s was too honest and obvious about its principles. To not appreciate that a counter-culture is incendiary and subversive, and deeply threatening to the dull mass of average, conservative men (who should be pitied, not confronted with a philosophy that frightens them and that they cannot understand), is to court disaster.
A proper counter-culture erects a moat – a defensive perimeter of some kind for the purpose of placating the dull conservatives.
Taoism and Chan are the world’s foremost examples of successful counter-cultures that managed to flourish under the gaze of the dull mainstream and keep them at bay. Christianity I regard as a failed counter-culture, because the mainstream successfully seized it and redefined it, and made about it war and wealth. Romanticism likewise was ultimately a failed counter-culture, as so many of its tropes and themes became the stuff of respectable bourgeois Leftist culture, and utterly lost their radical sting. (Nevertheless, there is much to be inspired by in both movements).
Zen and Buddhism in the West, ultimately also became a failed counter-culture, as only its exoteric outer moat, designed to appease conservatives, remains effective to this day. And it too has been assimilated to bourgeois culture.
A vital counter-culture does not really exist in the West today, although many individuals keep the flame alive.
Back to Taoism and Chan, how did it remain vital? First, by pretending to share the concerns of the mainstream- one pretended one was also concerned with growth and superiority and accumulation, just on the spiritual level (what has been called “spiritual materialism”). Second, by becoming a social institution. Third, by acting often as the moral instructors of youth and as a religious cult (appeasing the Gods, etc).
A true counter-culture must always remain the esoteric core, not because its difficult to understand- it is exceedingly simple – but because it is so subversive. And what surrounds the core must be a host of activities and institutions that cater to the dull, conservative majority, and appease them.
Nevertheless, it is striking how the core radical, subversive message of Chan and Taoism shone through its outer layers and provided a refuge for so many of China and Japans men of insight and perception, and even how it managed to influence mainstream culture.
In the end, a counter-culture must be symbiotic with the stupid mainstream culture, not confrontational. Perhals the yin/yang philosophy of earliest Chinese culture allowed them to understand this better than us.
To understand why the counterculture failed, one has to look at the center of the movement (Haight Ashbury) and it all becomes very clear. Drugs, drugs and drugs for one thing. A community that had started off as a peaceful one fueled by mostly marijuana and some other hallucinogenic drugs had morphed into a wider circus of harder drugs too. It was a free for all with no effective constraints on its adepts that had gone on to a drug induced frenzy of violence and greed. A lot of its “elite” were coopted by the larger mainstream community as the ideal of a self regulated community of country farmers had lost its luster too. Two good strains came out of this original nucleus, the Jesus freak movement and an early environmental group too, both movements still leave their mark on contemporary society.
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/65/50/63/14060797/11/ratio3x2_1200.jpg
Death of Hippie procession October 6, 1967 (Haight Ashbury)
Excessive drug use may have been a part of it, but I think the main reason was it began attracting the wrong sort of person and having the wrong aims.
Drug use itself is often symbolic of the desire to imagine new possibilities than that offered by the mainstream – the Romantics were great drug users – and to achieve a different state of mind than that available in mainstream society.
Used wisely, drugs can be a life enhancer and an aid yo imagining new possibilities- and that includes alcohol and tobacco.
I think the lesson of Taoism and Chan, and the 60s, is that the free life, the bursting out of oppressive mainstream bonds, requires discretion and restraint to circumscribe an area of freedom. Heedlessly challenging the authorities may be a grand Romantic gesture, but likely to lead to persecution.
That is why ultimately, the successful counter-culture type cannot be a revolutionary- he does not wish to upset settled convention. Rather, he sees through it. The revolutionary type is always the immature stage of the counter-culture- he still takes the settled conventions seriously. He still thinks they have the independent power to oppress – not realizing they can only oppress him to the extent he takes them seriously. They are illusions. Mind forged manacles.
The mature counter-cultural type abandons the dust of society and retreats to the mountains and a life in nature – having seen through social conventions and social roles, but with no wish to disturb those who don’t. From there, he serves as an inspiration for many still bound by the shackles of social roles and conventions, the petty ambitions and emotions that define society – the “dust” of society.
In Chan, the highest type of the counter-culture, after perhaps a period in the forest and having recognized all the illusions for what they are, returns to society and has a normal life. Gets married and has kids. Plays his role, but never again takes it seriously and is never again bound by it. He plays his social role lightly.
Although I must confess a personal preference for the mountain as the better path 🙂
Oh dear, how dare he?
Imagine being attached to a country just because you were born there.
I haven’t read those but I believe you. That’s how you often debate. Perhaps you need to work more on that side of the Buddhist religion that sees no national essentialism.
I think that the one showing a chauvinist attitude here is you. Imagine if I told you that, being Asian, you can’t fully grasp the Catholic religion. Of course you can. Just read the Bible and the latest version of the Catholic Catechism translated to your language of choice and your understanding of the Catholic religion is better than mine. In fact, much better than that of the vast majority of Catholics, who have not bothered to make that effort, even if they go to mass every Sunday.
Not about Buddhism but, yes, I have been doing some reading on the subject of consciousness that you and Bashibuzuk brought about some time ago and I think that I have some insights to provide. But I’d rather do so when I see you in a calmer state.
?
When Chan tells you not to make distinctions or have preferences, it does not mean to make a concerted effort to destroy preferences.
To make a deliberate effort to destroy preferences, is to take them quite too seriously, is itself a very strong preference.
The final act of every non-dualist way of thinking, is to overcome even itself, is to demolish the dualism of dualism vs non-dualism.
That is why, Nagarjuna says even Emptiness is Empty.
The ascetic rejects the world – but in doing so, he makes clear he thinks the world is real. He invests it with importance. He does not see it as an empty illusion. It looms large and threatening to him.
To see that what most men desire is repulsive is the first step towards wisdom, but not the last. The next step is to see it is not even repulsive – it is simply an illusion, without substance.
To not make distinctions or have preferences, is to see that ones naturally arising preferences are themselves illusions – it is to take them lightly. If one wanted to destroy them, it would be an implicit assumption they are real, it is to invest them with importance.
There is no reason not to eat the food you enjoy, or have the political opinions you have. Only, you hold them lightly, and don’t think they embody any ultimate pattern. No one can control is political preferences- but one can see through them.
For Chan, the most mature insight isn’t necessarily to live in the mountains, but to live an ordinary life, get married, have kids, play your social role – but do it lightly, coolly, all the while seeing through them.
Right now, on Audaciois Epigones blog, there are some very earnest and intelligent men deeply depressed and unhappy because social trends seem to them immoral and ugly. They believe their moral and aesthetic preferences literally represent the cosmic will, and reflect the pattern of the universe. They take them as having ultimate significance, and seeing what they are so attached to threatened is causing them severe distress and depression. There is nothing gay, joyful, or lighthearted about these men.
To Chan, such people are lacking in wisdom and insight, and languish in mind forged manacles. Let us imagine someone imbued with the Chan philosophy in a similar predicament- he might fight for his political principles – why not? – but he will do so laughingly, joyously, secure in the knowledge that nothing ultimate is at stake. This security may even unleash a level of total commitment – total abandon – not available to someone anxious that something ultimate is at stake, full of hesitation and fear of failure. Certainly he will fightpre joyfully 🙂
Or, like me, he may only dabble in politics, and his ultimate ideal may be to become an Old Man of The Mountains, wandering laughingly nowhere 🙂
Animals live in the eternal now, and we can certainly learn from them. It is civilization, language, and human artifice which ensnare us if we do not see them as mere tools but come to take them too seriously.
Which does not mean we should not use these things – just not become ensnared by them.
While we can and should learn from animals, and spend more time with them in general – there is magic in animals – we should not become any other animal than the human animal, an animal with its own peculiarities among other animals.
Shamans often wanted to become animals for a while, and there is a strange and mysterious book called The Peregrine, in which a naturalist actually tried to fuse with a falcon in an almost shamanic way.
John Gray, in his book the Silence of Animals, suggests humans can retain their sanity- leave the endless chatter in their skulls – by engaging with the “other shore”, the vast animal kingdom surrounding us, frred from language and the endless internal chatter that humans are enslaved by.
Children, too, have a special position – and it has been said, the kingdom of heaven requires us to become as children.
.
Ah, don’t worry – it shows you are smarter than you seem, and are not quite comfortable or at home among the “inherited stupidities”, however you defend them. You are ill at ease.
Oh Aaron, your incoherence is almost tragicomical.
So now its, once again, clear to you what we are arguing about?
Religious schism? What you are talking of? Have you ever been a genuine member of any other religion than Judaism? How we can have a schism or something, when youve never been part of us?
Dharma is not about safety, nor about respectability, more I learn, more I feel the suffering present in our world, which I is why I have lately avoided my religious practice or reading of Dharma, its unbelievable how much pain there is, how unsure everything is, how fragile we are, its hard for a man of small motivation like me, who just desires personal happiness. Thw very root why we dont have stable states of consciousness, is subtle ever present suffering in our consciousness.
Not long time ago you claimed otherwise, that your interpretation of Chan is correct and even claimed that Chan is heretical.
From time to time there is a some one who gives a new interpretation for something old, there are quite many such movements. Jehovah’s witnesses, Adventists, Nichiren and Won Buddhists and so on.
Ahem, I think that dude would just not care, and not build elaborate and ever changing excuses for his untenable philosophical positions.
Bashibuzuk you can easily find truth about Aaron by looking those of my arguments that he just ignores, he likes to stay on offensive(on a foreign ground), so that things that are truly dear to him, are not threatened, or put under a critical eye.
By the way do you recommend Seinfeld? When I was younger it didnt interest me, but now I have seen couple clips here and there, and it seems thats its a window… to another kind of spirit than mine or Russians.
I dont believe that Aaron was born in Israel, and there is no problem with being patriotic or loving some country dearly. Actually I very much understand why they want their own country(after what happened in WWII), and can feel sympathy for them because of it, though I am a supporter of two state solution. Why just not make Western Bank to have a constitution where army and military alliances with Israelis enemies are forbidden, like Japan with USA. Mikel its not about Israel, its about Aaron preaching to others such things that would destroy his beloved country, its about double standards.
This is whataboutism, but Aaron also speaks about “Asian despotism,” which has spoiled the original message of our religions. So clearly Asianness has stopped us from understanding the profound truths of our religion, at least according to Aaron. Mikel is this hill that you have chosen to be place where you die? Aaron likes to piss me off, I also like piss him off, very simple.
Its not so simple with Asian religious literature.
Firstly we live in a Christian or Post-Christian west, concepts and values in English, German, Spanish languages etc are intimately derived from Christian religion and philosophy, so its much easier for a westerner understand what Bible says, in comparison to texts which are translated from ancient Asian languages. Secondly Bible is translated either from Latin or Greek, both languages have had centuries interaction with modern western languages or are even their direct descendants, like Spanish. Western culture is deeply infused with Christian ideas and thinking. These are just few points why its easier for a western man to understand Bible than Taoist classics.
Does this all mean that its impossible for a modern western man to really understand ancient non-Christian religious literature? No, not all, but without perseverance and work its impossible. One should read and compare different critical translations with each other, learn what ancient Chinese or Indian religious concepts mean, the circumstances how they were born, and how they developed through the time, also its beneficial to visit lectures by the specialists of those religions, either in academical context or religious, and most importantly to develop friendships and tutorships with people who are authorities in those religious traditions.
But there are of course people who claim that everything is interpretation of something and its impossible to know what some religious author truly wanted to tell to people thousands of years ago.
Its internet, I sadly cant punch anybody virtually, so theres no threat of danger.
With you I see just ego tripping. Trips end before or later, I just hope that when you finally wake up from the trip, the hangover’s not too bad.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e8/99/bf/e899bfd6f3af9628a03e042b46d65ca7.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2ADMPDM/blind-mans-buff-a-triptych-by-max-beckmann-1884-1950-oil-on-canvas-1945-2ADMPDM.jpg
The flute player can always move to another party. 🙂
Lol, I am not gonna fight you for “ownership” of Chan, Taoism, Buddhism- you can have them all! 🙂 You can be the official custodian, interpreter, and authority on these things around these parts.
I am just offering my own ideas, and the ideas of some others, based on reading these texts. I claim no authority nor correctness.
“Man suffers because he takes seriously what the Gods made for sport”.
As for your remarks below that you see me as egotistical, I am quite comfortable with being just as egotistical as I am. I have no desire to be a Saint, to improve myself in any way, to grow or get “better” in any way, to grow morally 🙂 I am happy being my flawed, imperfect, limited self, just as egotistical as I am, not too moral or too good, not mattering much in the world, and ending it all in death and being forgotten by the world. As long as I have a laugh or two along the way 🙂
Cheers and good luck – hope you achieve all your goals.
Seinfeld is not bad. But I am not really into sitcoms, I think the last one I watched was “How I met your mother” years ago.
As I understand it, the problem with Tao Te Ching is that it was purportedly written at a time when the Chinese used a primitive form of writing with no punctuation, no plural/singular, no verb tenses, etc. So the meaning of the sentences is unclear to both Westerners and modern Chinese speakers.
But this is not our fault. If we want to understand what the writer was trying to say, both Westerners and Orientals need to translate it to something that makes some sense to us in our current way of expressing thoughts.
I imagine that most people who made the effort of translating it tried to be as accurate as they could. If there is some difference between the Western and modern Chinese translations of that book so big that render the former invalid, you should point it out, rather than appeal to undetermined cultural traditions that one should be familiar with in order to understand it.
Besides, while having that familiarity may help, it can also hamper the effort. One may be too attached to one’s cultural traditions to be able to assess objectively the original meaning of the book. It’s like listening to Lutherans and Orthodox in order to understand the Bible. They’re going to give you conflicting interpretations of the same book. I think that it’s probably best to read the Bible yourself in order to have the best understanding of what Christianity is. Or at least what it was at the time when ancient Christians decided what contents the Holy Book was going to have.
PS- Sometimes I hate myself when I re-read what I wrote and find some grammatical or semantic error. I need to learn to take a Taoist approach (in Aaron’s interpretation) to these things.
Im not sure, but I believe that it was Alan Watts who said that. No matter what kind of value you give to such words, they have nothing in common with any form of Buddhism. They dont, and cant make any sense from a Buddhist viewpoint, actually it makes less sense than claiming that man suffers because of God.
It seems that I accidentally wrote in comment 152# Wallace and not Watts.
Sometimes I do wonder the level of education people have gone through here? The problem of conveying properly something to another language without losing original meaning is a common knowledge, for any educated man, there are even various concepts of Greek philosophy that are hard to translate to English, like Nous, Logos and Hypostasis, among various other examples. But is studying of Greek philosophy and concepts part of the curriculum, has it been part of curriculum in USA after the 50s? Where I grow up, such things were part of high school education, or at least were. I dont know about Spain, I hope so, at least you had Franco, who saved you from the horrors of Communism.
Anyway Im not Taoist, nor I have ever been interested with it, but the problem with proper translation of Taoist terms is commonly accepted fact among researchers of Taoism. There has been already huge amount debate for last hundred years, how properly translate Taoist terms to English. Such things as punctuation and verb tenses are the smallest problems with translation from Classical Chinese, which in their logic resemble more Egyptian hieroglyphs than anything in Indic or European scripts, they are ideas in a pictorial form, not syllables, nor letters, though sometimes they are phonetical symbols, sometimes they are like puns, but such puns are impossible to translate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/i2nnmg/about_the_difficulty_of_translating_the_tao_te/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3269545?read-now=1&seq=1
Yep “you imagine,” translators take even more artistic liberties when translating poetical verses. I dont understand Mikel, you are a bilingual man and not American scum and still…
Bible did not exist in vacuum… Dont overly simplify things.
Postmodernists like that devil, Habermas(he really is a DEMON), believe that one can achieve objective state of mind, by criticizing every assumption and notion one has. Im more a fan of Gadamer and Searle, no one exists in vacuum, bridges must be build, act of understanding is a process, where we and our understanding gradually gets more refined, more nuanced, we cant escape our subjectivity, we must always establish relation with something. People like Habermas criticize just their linguistical assumptions, not their subliminal ones, the subtle ones, the deepest held ones, regarding the nature of reality, but still they hold a mistaken notion that they can achieve objectivity with such methods.
It has one advantage, it actually exists, while the MC-21 is still in the prototype phase.
Bilingualism is for linguistical weaklings. I grew up bilingual and then went on to learn another four languages.
As expected, you haven’t been able to point to a correct, acceptable translation of the Tao Te Ching. You’re just hand waving about Westerners not being able to understand such a profound book because they lack some cultural background that apparently you think you do have, even though at the same time you acknowledge that you have very little knowledge of Taoism yourself.
To make matters worse, after defending the most unlikely proposition that all translations of that book made by Westerners must be wrong you end up quoting someone who literally says “None of these translations is wrong …/… But the only correct one does not exist and cannot exist”.
Not that I care much. Taoism was the last attempt I made at reconciling myself with some kind of semi-religious thinking but eventually I decided that it was all too ambiguous and I was just grasping at straws. My only point here is that there is a clear lack of substance in your irate and chauvinistic attacks of other people’s understanding of that particular philosophy.
https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1358091692285571073
The numbers in that article just sound unbelievable. Births in several regions decreasing by over 20% in a year?
I believe it was Alan Watts, yes, but the sentiment is much more widespread.
One can only say, some people have been inspired to think this way after reading certain – definitely far from all – Buddhist texts, or texts that have been called Buddhist.
Certainly, the idea is not for everyone. Those who find it comforting, good for them. Those who don’t, must figure things out another way, I suppose.
https://thenumbernineblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/humptyd.jpg
Serial production is basically under way. There are supposed to be something like 5 produced this year and after that the annual production is intended to increase up to 72 by 2025. Now, perhaps there will be delays to get the production rate that high but nonetheless early production phase describes the situation better than prototype phase.
I think this is the real issue.
He calmed down after I said he could he could have ownership of Buddhism.
Let this be a lesson in strategy to all potential counter-culture types – let the mainstream types have “ownership” , and you will be left alone!
Its a symbiotic relationship.
I think you two have very different understandings of the doctrines in question and I would hope that you would agree that it is not very conducive to clear thought and dialogue to continue using the same name for your, self-admittedly, “esoteric” ideas and AltanBakshi’s more orthodox understanding.
I totally agree.
What I am talking about and AltanBakshi is talking about should not be designated by the same name.
The problem is, if a movement started with the ideas I presented here, it would soon be taken over by the AltanBakshi types and redefined as being the exact opposite. It would be “shown” that I couldn’t possibly mean what I said and one needs training and context – only available in authoritative schools- to truly understand that I can’t have meant the plain meaning of my words.
Thats how it goes. Jesus offered the most subversive, radical message – it was taken over by the Altan types and suddenly you could be a good Christian and wage war and become wealthy.
The Buddha tried to break off from Hinduism with its ascetic practices and efforts – the founding story of Buddhism has the Buddha try asceticism and decide that it doesn’t lead to Enlightenment. Within two centuries, Buddha status from Ghandara depict the Buddha as an emaciated ascetic.
Chan tried to break away from the Buddhism of the time and reject the path of effort and practice – it became an institution with efforts and practices.
Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu speak eloquently and repeatedly about how death is a normal transformation not to be feared, indeed one has no cause to think life is better than death. Religious Taoism became about the search for immortality.
The problem is, the ideas described here are too radical and subversive of mainstream society to be allowed to freely circulate- no ruling elite can allow these ideas to affect large numbers of people, and mainstream types feel hugely threatened by them.
This is understandable and not to be deplored. The purity of the original message does get transmitted to people capable of receiving it and forms the “core” of each h tradition – and a hint of the message shines through even in the mainstream version.
Paradoxically, square types like Altan perform a real service – he acts as a screen for more spiritual and sensitive types to access the real message without being persecuted by the mainstream. Altan as the face of Buddhism does not threaten the men interested in money and power- they see he is essentially the same kind of man as them. He does not disturb them.
More spiritual types can then access the real message without being persecuted by the men of money and power, who think you’re basically interested in superiority and accomplishment just like them.
Its a win win, a symbiotic relationship. The stupid are turned to serve a good cause.
True, though perhaps this year they will no longer be building any more Tu-204s.
Though it would still have a function, because currently the MC-21 is flying with the American engines, and so building a Tu-204 or two could keep Aviadvigatel somewhat busy building the PS-90 or whatever engines until the PD-14 is ready for serial production.
Though on second thought it makes no sense either. The PS-90 engines could be (and are) produced for the Il-76MD-90, or as a part of a badly needed modernization drive for the existing Il-76 fleet.
Please continue here:
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-139/#comment-4454631
I don’t agree with the solitary approach because I think it faces the issues of how to resolve the hierarchy of values when in confliction, unclear passages (ex. “iron sharpens iron”, is this a positive or negative interpretation?), translation limitations etc. But perhaps it is best not to argue about this…
In any case there are both mediaeval and modern examples of Christian mass movements for reform and development, ranging from reducing and civilising warlordism during the loss of central control in France.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_and_Truce_of_God
To 19th century British and American social amelioration efforts to European and American missionaries establishing hospitals and institutes of common and higher learning both at home and abroad.