Open Thread 72

OK! So I finally have a PC again thanks to a scavenging friend.

  • CPU = i5-4670k
  • MoBo = Asus Z87-A
  • GPU = GTX 770
  • 620W PSU and R4 Fractal case

Full upgrade is too costly (around $500 as both the DDR-3 based MoBo and CPU would need to be replaced), and frankly unneeded for another 2-3 years, but I do want to upgrade the GPU and double RAM to 16GB.

Goals: Play any modern game at smooth 60 fps on 1080p screen on Ultra would almost certainly be the main/only constraining factor.

RAMCorsair Vengeance DDR3 DIMM 1600MHz PC3-12800 [16GB] for ~$100. Some of my apps could benefit from this and might come in handy if I need to work on large databases.

Which GPU?

I like MSI GPUs as they tend to be quiet, reliable, have good cooling, and are OC friendly. I assume these are no different and the reviews appear to be ok.

Getting the RTX 2060 seems like a no brainer. Might be worth considering the 1660-Ti if the price differential was $80 (as it seems to be in the US), but in Russia it’s only ~$40.

Does this sound about right? Am I making any mistakes?

Meta-note: I should have never abandoned the PC master race. Thorfinnsson’s “technical” explanations regardless, I strongly believe that the problems with my Lenovo notebook were the result of God punishing me for my treason. I have gotten the message. Laptops are for bringing to work, or for travel – not for the home.

With 20 days worth of warranty remaining, I will soon send it the laptop off to get repaired, hopefully it could at least continue serving in that modest and more appropriate function.


@ak

More notable posts since the last Open Thread in case you missed any of them.

  • Kazakh President Nazarbayev Resigns
    • Succeeding Prez Tokayev to rename capital Astana to Nursultan. I thought the Kazakhs might be freer of the Central Asian inclination towards personality cults, but I guess not.
    • Nazarbayev will retain real power. He was made Leader for Life (“elbasy”) in 2010, and he will chair the Security Council, which was made more powerful than the Presidency. I have seen speculations that he will be succeeded by his wife, or one of his two daughters.
  • What If Russia Stood on the Sidelines While Crimea Burned?
    • More Crimea poasts upcoming soon.
  • Some good responses to my Yang post at /r/YangForPresidentHQ

Not many notable posts, as I’m only posting this a few days after the last Open Thread.

*


Featured


Russia

  • *powerful comment*: E dissects internal Ukrainian discussions on what to do about Crimea on Feb 28, 2014
  • Completion of the first railroad bridge across the Amur linking China and Russia; should be in operation by the end of the year
  • Hyundai/Yandex strike deal on developing self-driving cars
  • *powerful comment*: German_reader on how Merkel took the climate school strikes as Russian “hybrid warfare” until the Greens came out in support.
  • Moscow prepares ‘White Book’ on human rights violations by Western states
  • Mary Ilyushina: “RT apparently makes its employees sign an agreement banning them from criticizing or discussing the inner workings of the channel even 20 YEARS after they quit. Otherwise — 5 mln rub fine (about 77k).

World

  • More Zach Goldberg on the rise of millennial Pink Guards
  • Trump ReTweets:
    • William Craddick: “Russiagate was designed in part to help the UK counter Russian influence by baiting the United States into taking a hard line against them. Leaves us all with a more dangerous world as a consequence. Just another episode of the Great Game.
    • He’s not wrong!
  • Andrew Yang not an IQ realist (publicly)
    • Airily dismissing utility of IQ tests is highly characteristic of high IQ people. But there are also purely pragmatic reasons for politicians to steer clear.
  • Barak Ravid: “This is one of the most bizzare election ad you have ever seen: Israel’s Minister of Justice (!!) Ayelet Shaked plays a model, sprays herself with “Fascism” perfume and says: “Smells like democracy to me”. Viktor Orban on steroids
  • Mencius Moldbugman travel thread:
    • I’m a well-travelled guy and I recently got some comments about my travels, especially in light of the Christchurch shooter’s trips to Pakistan and N Korea. I’d like to share some thoughts on why I don’t think these places radicalised him, plus some talk about Bhutan….. Media cries of radicalisation when they see someone visiting NK or Pakistan are groundless and ignorant of reality. I’m very lucky to be extremely well travelled in unusual locales… the only place I ever felt radicalised was Bhutan.

Science & Culture


Humor & Powerful Takes


Comments

  1. *powerful comment*: Thorfinnsson on Luftwaffe vs. modern art

    ‘Powerful’?? Give me a break Anatoly! 🙂

    A photgraph of a bombsight better than Picasso’s Guernica? The ‘alt-right’ gang should stick to planning various interesting anschlusses around the world, not discussions about art (I did notice a fan or two of the Austrian water colorist gain some ‘powerful comments’ too. It’s a shame that you didn’t include them too!). 🙂

  2. The latest from a once time multiple guest on RT: https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/21/on-ilhan-omar-assad-fetishism-and-the-danger-of-red-brown-anti-imperialism/

    Harassment? https://www.rt.com/sport/454388-zagitova-doping-control-world-championship/

    Hate mongering journalism: https://www.rferl.org/a/cold-war-on-ice-how-czechoslovakia-hockey-team-beat-soviets/29832512.html

    Highly suspect that the featured Boris Mikhailov wasn’t asked about the claim made (by one of his Czech opponents in the above linked video) that he played dirty. No note on the many modern day Czechs and Slovaks who’ve played in Russia, inclusive of the best Czech player ever – the not so distantly retired Jaromir Jagr, who doesn’t stereotype Russia/Russians, while opposing the 1968 Soviet led intervention of his country. The late Ivan Hlinka, who coached the Olympic gold medal winning men’s Czech ice hockey team in 1998, went on to coach in Russia.

  3. Szukalski thought Picasso was Fartist and Pic-ass-hole, and Szukalski was genius, soooo … 😀

    (OTOH, Szukalski was also a complete nut plus he was Russophobe)

  4. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    RE: LondonBob’s Civil War post, with which I mostly agree, as far as alternative history goes when it comes to Britain and America, Ron Unz gave us a good starting point from where we can wander into asking what might have been if a bunch of Limey spies and Roosevelt hadn’t attacked our formerly peaceful country

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-alexander-cockburn-and-the-british-spies/

    But an even better question is, what if that troll Teddy Roosevelt hadn’t put Wilson into the White House? Would Taft, et al, have stopped the Fed? And it certainly seems a Taft administration, followed presumably by another Republican victory in 1916, would have stopped U.S. intervention in World War 1. Or was it all inevitable?

    America’s “special relationship” with Britain. Pardon me while I vomit in my mouth.

  5. Brabantian says

    Intentional confusion in ChristChurch and the ‘conspiracy theory’ smear –

    Every serious analyst reviewing the New Zealand Tarrant mosque shooting video, finds credibility-nullifying elements of hoax and fraud – the ejected rifle brass casings turning into vapour, obvious computer graphics; the lack of damage in walls and windows from rifle fire; the lack of physical reactions & screams in bodies being shot; the barefoot victim shot down, having socks on two minutes later, etc

    But it’s not easy to grok this, as the next logical question is how you can get an entire Muslim community to keep quiet about a ‘fake’ shooting, whilst ‘crisis actors’ give interviews etc

    The logical conclusion is that, as some argue, there was a real mosque massacre by one or two gov-tied killers, and a fake video was made to sow confusion and discredit anyone who notices the fakery.

    With real Muslims dead, all you need to shut up real witnesses, is to have one or two corrupt Muslim leaders, tell their flock they are dishonouring martrys by trying to talk to media, and Allah wills the situation as is, so shut up. The same Muslim leaders who let the interior of the mosque be filmed earlier, as backdrop for the fabricated Tarrant show.

    NZ media would dismiss as ‘crazy’ any wounded or witness Muslim who tried to argue against the video – which they maybe haven’t seen anyway, given NZ censorship.

    The ‘white nationalist boogeyman’ is obviously very long-term useful to prop up as alleged shooter. At the same time, there is meagre ground to argue the gov-mercenary shooter angle, and the ‘truther’ crowd is made to look obsessive and foolish quibbling about obvious video fraud.

    The value of confusion is high to government operations. Consider 9-11, with five widely-spread stories about what took down the New York World Trade Centre towers on 11 September 2001, four stories all deflecting from whatever is the real truth:

    (1) Official story, planes, jet fuel, etc – Denounced as impossible by thousands of architects & engineers
    (2) Conventional pre-set explosives, linked to the ‘Israeli art students’ photographed by the New York Times, with boxes whose industrial codes showed them to be bomb detonator components (my vote)
    (3) Nano-thermite advanced explosives
    (4) Destructive energy rays which the government can use from a distance
    (5) 1950s-60s recycled ‘mini nuclear weapons’ detonated inside the towers

  6. Yandex apparently has one of the best self-driving systems out there, despite only starting working on it in 2016.

    https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/russias-yandex-has-created-what-may-be-most-aggressive-av-tech

    From the start, there was a clear contrast between the Yandex demonstration and a dozen or so other self-driving rides others conducted that week. Others required their human safety drivers to operate the vehicle in private parking lots and engage autonomous mode only when we reached a public road. But the Toyota Prius V used by Yandex was under computer control from the moment we rolled out of a parking stall within the garage at the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino, though a human safety driver was behind the wheel.

    They almost didn’t get there, thanks to the wonderful relations between US and Russia.

    That Yandex was in Vegas at all is something of a marvel. Several members of the Yandex engineering team had visa delays in the weeks leading into CES. So it was left to a single employee who arrived five weeks before the tech showcase to buy a Prius V from a local dealer, retrofit the vehicle with its sensor stack of Velodyne lidar, cameras and radar, not to mention the computing power in the trunk, and then map routes around the city.

  7. German_reader says

    Ron Unz gave us a good starting point from where we can wander into asking what might have been if a bunch of Limey spies and Roosevelt hadn’t attacked our formerly peaceful country

    Nazi Germany could have become potentially quite dangerous to the US if it had successfully conquered Eurasia. It did have fairly advanced technology by the standards of the time after all, especially in rocket development. I guess it comes down to the question whether Hitler’s ambitions were limited to Europe or global, at least in the long term.
    Another crucial question of course is whether Germany could ever have decisively defeated the Soviet Union and occupied all of European Russia. I doubt it, Operation Barbarossa was total hubris and the German plans had failed even in their modified form by late 1942/early 1943, and that was before America decisively entered the war in North Africa and Europe, and iirc also before most of the Western lend-lease shipments to the Soviet Union. But I suppose there might have been some sort of extended stalemate.
    But in any case, Roosevelt’s actions turned the US into the dominant world power, at the cost of the lowest casualties of all combatant powers. So the criticism of him by US paleoconservatives always seems rather exaggerated to me.

  8. Thorfinnsson says

    PC

    You might not need to upgrade for a very long time in light of the end of Moore’s Law.

    The Haswell generation (4th) of Intel Core processors is nearly as powerful as the current 8th generation.

    The disadvantages in your setup compared to the latest technology are in the data buses:

    • DDR3 instead of DDR4
    • No NVMe
    • No Thunderbolt

    DDR4 is a minor improvement and not noticeable for most users.

    NVMe is a substantial improvement, but a SATA3 SSD is still speedy enough for most users. If desperate to improve you can use a PCI-E card SSD or configure a SATA RAID 0 array.

    Thunderbolt is irrelevant for your needs.

    I would not be surprised if this system is satisfactory for your needs a decade from now.

    It appears that a 2.5″ SSD is mounted on top of the cage containing an obsolete Western Digital spinning platter hard drive. If that’s not an SSD, I would advise upgrading to a SSD prior to upgrading RAM. Fortunately flash memory prices are in the tank right now so SSD prices are dirt cheap.

    No opinion on the GPU as I don’t game.

  9. Szukalski miał pierdnięcie mózgu! 🙂

  10. Thorfinnsson says

    It’s a photograph of a bomb site, not a photograph of a bombsight.

    You do raise a good point none the less. Bombsights of the period were also great works of art.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Norden_bombsight-IMG_6401-gradient.jpg

    If found in a ditch with bones and spearheads strewn about, this would have a place of pride in the British Museum. Instead it suffers in obscurity at the Imperial War Museum, a facility whose main purpose is the burnishing of Bernard Law Montgomery’s reputation.

    It’s obviously greater than anything Picasso ever produced.

  11. LondonBob says

    The Roosevelt administration was a key driver of WWII, as much so as Hitler. See The Forrestal Diaries and Joe Kennedy relaying Neville Chamberlain’s thoughts on the matter. War might have been avoided otherwise.

    Had the Republican vote not been split then there was a good chance the US would have entered WWI a lot earlier and Germany been defeated a lot sooner.

    https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/04/roosevelt-1912/

  12. LondonBob says

    https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html

    The IHR do some very good work, but obviously they have their own axes to grind.

  13. Thorfinnsson says

    John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan’s point of departure is November, 1940.

    Because he is citing Ron Unz’s essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an “isolationist” Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert “Mr. Conservative” Taft of Ohio for instance.

    Hitler decided to invade the USSR after Molotov’s disastrous visit to Berlin in October, 1940.

    Owing to the anti-German foreign policy of the Roosevelt administration, including a stated plan to build 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain, relatively few industrial resources in advance of Operation Barbarossa were allocated to strengthening the army. Much more were allocated to capital investments and the other services (who also had access to better personnel).

    It is possible that with an isolationist victory in the 1940 US election that Germany would’ve invested more into strengthening the army, and that this would’ve provided the necessary margin of victory during Barbarossa.

    I am personally a believer that a neutral, isolationist US would’ve resulted in a German victory. People like to claim that most Lend-Lease was shipped in the latter years of the war, but this is because because American production kept skyrocketing. Then there are people who claim that the “tide turned” at the end of 1942, as if the war followed lunar phases.

    Even in the absence of a victory in Barbarossa, the following should be considered:

    • US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)
    • Soviet manpower attrition exceeded German attrition in percentage terms until the middle of 1944
    • The impact of Lend-Lease on the British war effort (generally forgotten, and Britain got more than the USSR)
    • German manpower and materiel diversions to other fronts increased after Stalingrad
    • Lend-Lease providing:

    -58% of the USSR’s high octane aviation fuel
    -33% of their motor vehicles
    -53% of USSR domestic production of expended ordnance (artillery shells, mines, assorted explosives)
    -30% of fighters and bombers
    -93% of railway equipment (locomotives, freight cars, wide gauge rails, etc.)
    -50–80% of rolled steel, cable, lead, and aluminium
    -43% of garage facilities (building materials & blueprints)
    -12% of tanks and SPGs
    -50% of TNT (1942-1944) and 33% of ammunition powder (in 1944)[54]
    -16% of all explosives (from 1941–1945, the USSR produced 505,000 tons of explosives and received 105,000 tons of Lend-Lease imports)

    Obviously German victory isn’t guaranteed in such a scenario. It’s well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn’t have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain). No decision in 1941 then, and hard to imagine one in 1942. Does the German army, freed of an Italian front and the Atlantic Wall, go on to beat the USSR in 1943 or 1944? Maybe.

    Britain’s power, especially that of Bomber Command, is often underappreciated. Bomber Command could’ve collapsed the German war economy in 1943 had they kept hammering the Ruhr. Instead, they shifted to Berlin. How much weaker is Bomber Command in this scenario? German air defenses are unlikely to be much stronger.

  14. Looks to me like you may have missed your calling in life, Thorfinnsson. Perhaps, you should have gone to thunderbird school right after high school? You could have been a real hero too (notice the shiny, brand new bombsight camera?):

    http://www.twinbeech.com/images/Aircraft/manufacturers/boeing/B-29series/EnolaGay/ThomasFerebee.jpg

    Think of all of the mangled and incinerated bodies. I doubt that many bones would be left for your magnum opus photo, though?….

  15. German_reader says

    US production plans causing Germany to shift its production priorities (as noted earlier)

    shifted to what? Submarines would have been necessary anyway for the war against Britain, and the Luftwaffe remained a force used mostly for tactical support of ground troops, with all attempts at creating aircraft capable of strategic bombing unsuccesful and only pursued later in the war (and those weren’t just caused by considerations of the war against the western powers, there was also the idea of building an Uralbomber to strike Soviet industry in the Urals region).

    It’s well known that German intelligence on the USSR was poor and that they (obviously) underestimated the Red Army. So perhaps production plans wouldn’t have changed (there was still the need to defeat Britain).

    Given how absurdly confident Hitler and his generals were of victory in June/July 1941 (they really thought the Soviet Union would collapse in a few weeks), this seems likely to me.
    They really had no idea about Soviet capabilities. I’m currently reading a German book about the Wehrmacht, and the picture that emerges of Barbarossa is one of absolute hubris (e.g. the well-known fact that only a fairly small part of the Wehrmacht was motorized, the inferiority of German tanks to some Soviet designs, only compensated in 1941 by better German tactics, use of radio etc., the divisions destined for occupation duties in the rear being grotesquely under-manned and under-equipped, and much more).

  16. I think the utility of bombsights is probably somewhat overtated. They were certainly oversold, but it’s questionable whether they really needed a bombsight for Hiroshima. However, I suppose that one could make the argument that it was a political necessity to give the lie to precision bombing in order to spend the vast resources necessary to develop the B-29 and put it into production, that the A-bomb dropped to airburst over Japan is really the penultimate culmination of the bombsight. With the H-bomb being the final product.

  17. LondonBob says

    You ignore the high likelihood of Britain agreeing to Hitler’s very generous peace offers without the assurance of the US entering the war.

    Anyway the idea Britain was so influential on US politics is just not grounded in reality, wasn’t in WWI, even less so in regard to WWII. In both cases the Jewish influence was decisive, and many other lobbies were active too. Akin to those today ranting about Russians but not Israelis.

  18. Well, not quite. The ‘utility’ and ‘final product’ for the whole affair was upwards of 166,000 people killed. Here’s the ‘work of art’ that Thorfinnsonn dreams about:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Hiroshima_aftermath.jpg

  19. Weren’t you apologising for a civilisation that ritually slaughtered thousands of people about ten minutes ago?

  20. I still am.

  21. Are you really butthurt? He was just making a joke about Picasso’s shitty art.

  22. Thorfinnsson says

    shifted to what? Submarines would have been necessary anyway for the war against Britain, and the Luftwaffe remained a force used mostly for tactical support of ground troops, with all attempts at creating aircraft capable of strategic bombing unsuccesful and only pursued later in the war (and those weren’t just caused by considerations of the war against the western powers, there was also the idea of building an Uralbomber to strike Soviet industry in the Urals region).

    Between the Fall of France and the start of Barbarossa:

    • Massive capital investments–the largest investment boom in German history
    • U-boat production tripled
    • Aircraft production increased 40%
    • Aircraft manufacturing workforce grew 40% (effects of this not seen until 1942)
    • Munitions production was cut from 36% of expenditures to 20% (owing to large stocks–22m 10.5cm howitzer shells were in inventory in September, 1940)
    • Vehicles & weapons production increased 54%
    • Army’s steel ration cut by one-third
    • Exports increased 25%

    The basic goal of Ruestungsprogramm B was to prepare for a long war against the Anglo-Americans while still increasing the striking power of the army, which was done by doubling the number of Panzer divisions and increasing the amount of artillery guns in the infantry. This was done on the cheap by restricting the production of munitions as excess stocks had been produced in advance of the invasion of France. The freed resources were allocated to capital investments, the navy, and exports.

    The capital investments should be further explained. Gigantic investments had already begun in 1938, but after the Fall of France the largest investments ever in German history (relative terms) were made. Nothing of the sort occurred in Britain or the USSR (though the USA made gigantic investments). These investments were all made for the global war against the Anglo-Americans.

    Some of the investments made include:

    • Henschel & Sohn added 100,000 square meters of factory floor space in Kassel
    • Nibelungen tank factory constructed in St Valentin, Austria
    • Vomag in Plauen and Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen works converted to tank production
    • IG Farben commenced construction on fuel plants to raise production from 4.3m tons to 10m by 1945
    • Work began on the Auschwitz factory complex, a 1.3bn Reichsmark investment (13bn Euros today)
    • 2.5bn Reichsmarks on other chemicals projects
    • 400m Reichsmark investment to raise Norwegian aluminum production from 46,000 tons to 200,000 tons by 1944
    • 1.5bn Reichsmark investment to increase Grossraum aluminum production to 1m tons
    • 685m Reichsmark investment to build the Flugmotorenwerk Ost in Austria with a planned output of 1,000 aero engines per month (this turned into a fiasco)
    • 170m Reichsmark investment to increase production of Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 aero engines at Genshagen (major success–actual output reached over 1,200 engines per month in 1944)
    • 5.2bn Reichsmarks into all Luftwaffe industries from 1939-1942 (explains much of the “armaments miracle”)

    In the absence of American involvement, perhaps more would’ve been allocated to current weapons production. Alternatively, Britain and the USSR would’ve faced a massive flood of German production in 1943 and later without a corresponding flood of American production.

    Figures are from Adam Tooze’s book The Wages of Destruction.

    Given how absurdly confident Hitler and his generals were of victory in June/July 1941 (they really thought the Soviet Union would collapse in a few weeks), this seems likely to me.
    They really had no idea about Soviet capabilities. I’m currently reading a German book about the Wehrmacht, and the picture that emerges of Barbarossa is one of absolute hubris (e.g. the well-known fact that only a fairly small part of the Wehrmacht was motorized, the inferiority of German tanks to some Soviet designs, only compensated in 1941 by better German tactics, use of radio etc., the divisions destined for occupation duties in the rear being grotesquely under-manned and under-equipped, and much more).

    Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.

    The situation in the fall of 1940 was that the Luftwaffe had failed to defeat Britain, the Kriegsmarine was a tiny force, and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire. At the same time it was falling into dangerous dependence on the Soviet Union.

    Unlike the Luftwaffe, the German Army had seemingly proven itself as an apparently invincible war winning weapon. Conquering Russia would solve Germany’s raw materials problem and provide it with all the resources it required to face the Anglo-American onslaught.

    While one shouldn’t excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone. So too was the size of the Red Army and the ability of Soviet leadership to rapidly form divisions. The Germans had expected to face 200 divisions, but by the time Barbarossa concluded they had faced something like 700 Soviet divisions.

    A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941. The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.

    Also working in favor of the invading Germans was the continuing presence in the Soviet high command of very big-brained individuals like Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik, who had the inventor of the automatic grenade launcher executed and considered land mines to be a weapon of cowards. One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.

    It’s true that the Wehrmacht was not motorized (and in fact progressively demotorized throughout the war), but the Red Army was not either. Obviously the lack of trucks caused enormous problems, but none the less the Germans advanced into the USSR in 1941 as fast as the Americans did into Iraq in 2003.

  23. (4th) of Intel Core processors is nearly as powerful as the current 8th generation.

    As diminishing returns, of the software, GPU, etc. (If he doesn’t upgrade his GPU too much).

    In terms of raw performance, it would be destroyed by the latest generations.

    I think it will be fine for 60 fps gaming nonetheless, if he does not use other programs, at the same time….

    But, maybe with the RTX 2060 , it will be underpowered though and just bottleneck a new GPU?

    With this processor, I guess it would be more suitable to match with something like a 1070? I’m no expert, but I would assume 1070 would be more suitable to match it with?

  24. Thorfinnsson says

    A very good point.

    If FDR had been defeated, Churchill might well have been replaced leading to a peace agreement with the Germans.

    Jews were obviously pushing America towards war, but Unz’s essay about British influence is interesting and eye-opening:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-alexander-cockburn-and-the-british-spies/

    It’s also not just a matter of alien influence. Much of America’s WASP establishment, still in control at that time, favored intervention. Foreign Policy magazine helpfully has its archives online, and you can read all sorts of dreck from 1940 about the American need to enter the war or at least support Britain.

    Gallup opinion polling in 1939 also asked Americans if they should help their British “blood brothers” which I found interesting.

    American public opinion was largely opposed to intervention, but tellingly almost no one was in favor of joining the Axis whereas a substantial minority favored aiding or joining the Allies. This despite the fact that obviously America stood to gain from dismembering the British Empire and once and for all eliminating the hideous Canuckist Entity from the map.

  25. German_reader says

    and Germany was facing a long global war against the vastly superior combined resources of the United States and British Empire

    imo that exaggerates the situation. There was no immediate prospect of the US directly entering the war, a majority of the US public was against it (and it’s not even clear to me Roosevelt wanted direct intervention, maybe he would have been content with lend-lease and US navy patrols in the North Atlantic). And Britain on her own could never have expelled German forces from German-occupied Europe (Anglo-supremacists who claim otherwise usually have to resort to fantasy scenarios involving atomic weapons or mass armies of enthusiastic Indians fighting in Europe), in fact couldn’t even do all that much against Germany until 1943 when the bombing offensive escalated.
    tbh I have to wonder a bit what kind of ideological biases are present in Tooze’s work, if I understand correctly, he comes close to claiming that Britain and the US were Hitler’s main enemy, with the Soviet Union almost an afterthought in Hitler’s world view (which would seem very questionable to me).

  26. Hyperborean says

    Operation Barbarossa was total hubris

    Why that name though? I would have chosen to call it something more fortuitous like Operation Arminius.

  27. Thorfinnsson says

    Roosevelt made the announcement in May, 1940 that the USA intended to construct 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain.

    US rearmament also began in the same year. The Two-Ocean Navy Act was passed into law on July 19, 1940. The act authorized the procurement of:

    • 18 aircraft carriers
    • 2 Iowa-class battleships
    • 5 Montana-class battleships
    • 6 Alaska-class cruisers
    • 27 cruisers
    • 115 destroyers
    • 43 submarines
    • 15,000 aircraft
    • The conversion of 100,000 tons of auxiliary ships
    • $50 million for patrol, escort and other vessels
    • $150 million for essential equipment and facilities
    • $65 million for the manufacture of ordnance material or munitions
    • $35 million for the expansion of facilities

    Also in 1940 (actually in December, 1939) the Army Air Corps issued the formal specification that would lead to the B-29.

    Britain’s war plans since 1936 always focused on strategic bombing. Churchill’s plans in turn always involved leveraging American production. America did not have to be directly at war with Germany in order for its industry to provide a lethal threat to Germany.

    As for Tooze’s ideological biases, he states in another book of his (Crashed) that he is a conventional left-liberal whose loyalties are divided between Britain, Germany, and the “island of Manhattan” (by which he means finance, not NYC).

    Tooze does not make the claim that the USSR was an afterthought in Hitler’s worldview and acknowledges Hitler’s long-range plans of annexing the USSR for Lebensraum. In fact, he does a good job of explaining the economic rationale for this thinking by explaining the miserable condition of the German peasantry in the period.

    He does make the claim that since 1938 Hitler believed he was facing a very powerful Western coalition. Operation Barbarossa is presented by Tooze as being part of an economic strategy to acquire the resources needed to face the Anglo-American colossus. In this it can seem like an afterthought even though the acquisition of territory in the east and the helotization, Germanization, and/or elimination of the Slavs had long been central to Hitler’s thinking.

    There were also other reasons for Barbarossa of course not heavily addressed by Tooze. The Soviet threat to Romanian oil for instance was cited by Hitler himself in his recorded conversation with Mannerheim, and Molotov’s demands in October, 1940 were outrageous.

  28. German_reader says

    The name is indeed odd, especially so since the Nazi view of the German middle ages wasn’t positive; iirc the Italian policy of emperors like Barbarossa was seen as a pointless waste of German blood and resources, preventing the creation of a strong central state in Germany and distracting from Germany’s true mission of colonization in Eastern Europe in the fight against the Slavs.
    As far as I know, there’s no real explanation for why that name was chosen, maybe it was kind of random and didn’t have any deeper significance.

  29. German_reader says

    1940 that the USA intended to construct 50,000 aircraft per year and supply them to Britain.

    Aircraft are pointless though without aircrew to operate them.
    I haven’t personally read Tooze’s book (and don’t intend to in the near future), so I can’t comment in any more detail. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

  30. Gerard1234 says

    https://vz.ru/news/2019/3/20/969350.html

    LOL…………just when you thought this nutjob country couldn’t get more farcical. Easily deserving of a place on the Open Thread

    As for the thing about RT……. I am fairly sure it is standard practise amount all International News channels across the world, particularly American. Even so that story probably isn’t even true – they have plenty of western , foreign journalists – not much chance they could stop them, or sue them in a western court ( or even try)…and anyway the critical worker could just easily leak that to any of the numerous liberast friends that I am pretty sure align with the minds of most RT journalists anyway.

  31. Hyperborean says

    iirc the Italian policy of emperors like Barbarossa was seen as a pointless waste of German blood and resources, preventing the creation of a strong central state in Germany and distracting from Germany’s true mission of colonization in Eastern Europe in the fight against the Slavs.

    Yes, I suppose that too. I was thinking more of his ignominious end during the Third Crusade.

  32. German_reader says

    I was thinking more of his ignominious end during the Third Crusade.

    He’s not really dead and will return one day:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyffh%C3%A4user#Kyffh%C3%A4user_legend

  33. especially in light of the Christchurch shooter’s trips to Pakistan and N Korea. I’d like to share some thoughts on why I don’t think these places radicalised him

    I don’t know, visiting Pakistan is as a good education about what third world populations achieve as a society.

  34. Barbarossa was to join the crusade. Operation Barbarossa was a crusade against the jew, as the USSR was a jewish construct, the name no doubt came from this line of thought.

  35. Hyperborean says

    He’s not really dead and will return one day:

    Interesting, I hadn’t heard of Kyffhäuser before.

  36. They would have used his German name Herman, but it would probably not have been wise to use the name of a man that halted the Roman Empires expansion and ultimately that led it to its doom, the Italian allies would not have been too please with the connotations.

  37. Hyperborean says

    Regarding the visual arts in Russia:

    I don’t really like the modern and geometric style, but at least this one is easily comprehensible.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/t/5c8cf5158165f56352703666/1552741665862/0*Qot-zRE87HYG_jvb..jpeg?format=2500w

    But what are these supposed to represent? I honestly have no clue. If there is no purpose then what is the point?

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f69fa0d605b84e24c4b/5c8d3f6f53450a39cc0bae69/1552760688368/0*-z_3rMXKD-LVFtrx..jpeg?format=2500w

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f69fa0d605b84e24c4b/5c8d3f697817f775cf383ed3/1552760682466/0*obsS79k7ggX_yXog..jpeg?format=2500w

    I think the author, a woman, is trying to make some sort of feminist statement by contrasting these pictures, but honestly, seeing the grim, stern proletarian faces next to joyous, relaxed bourgeois women, it has the opposite effect on me.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f3c4785d35a3b3acfc4/5c8d3f3deb393146785c6d67/1552760638017/0*C2QQJW_IVrvFxog8..jpeg?format=1000w

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f3c4785d35a3b3acfc4/5c8d3f3ce5e5f05150047191/1552760637488/0*725fYT8ahLnBZupb..jpeg?format=1000w

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f15ee6eb07b49ce6193/5c8d3f15f4e1fca5435edbd2/1552760598755/0*_qTEJFrU-nnbA1nz..jpeg?format=1000w

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/587cf305f7e0ab6a702dfdaa/5c8d3f15ee6eb07b49ce6193/5c8d3f15ec212d73477feedc/1552760598434/0*-vqZ7t113EGCx_VL..jpeg?format=2500w

  38. Correct, that’s (my own) SSD.

    @ Dmitry,

    With this processor, I guess it would be more suitable to match with something like a 1070? I’m no expert, but I would assume 1070 would be more suitable to match it with?

    1070 has very similar performance to 1660-Ti but is almost three years old and just as expensive. No real point to it.

  39. From 21 November 1938 report by Ambassador Potocki on conversation with Ambassador Bullitt

    As the Soviet Union’s potential strength is not yet known, it might happen that Germany would have moved too far away from its base, and would be condemned to wage a long and weakening war. Only then would the democratic countries attack Germany, Bullitt declared, and force her to capitulate.

    In reply to my question whether the United States would take part in such a war, he said, ‘Undoubtedly yes, but only after Great Britain and France had let loose first!’

    FDR knew what he wanted.

    Hoover would document his conversations with the various people he met with. An example is provided of Hoover’s meeting with Kennedy on May 15, 1945. Kennedy indicated he had over 900 dispatches which he could not print without consent of the U.S. Government. He hoped one day to receive such permission as it was Kennedy’s intention to write a book that would:

    …put an entirely different color on the process of how America got into the war and would prove the betrayal of the American people by Franklin D, Roosevelt.

    …Roosevelt and Bullitt were the major factors in the British making their guarantees to Poland and becoming involved in the war. Kennedy said that Bullitt, under instructions from Roosevelt, was constantly urging the Poles not to make terms with the Germans and that he Kennedy, under instructions from Roosevelt, was constantly urging the British to make guarantees to the Poles.

    He said that after Chamberlain had given these guarantees, Chamberlain told him (Kennedy) that he hoped the Americans and the Jews would now be satisfied but that he (Chamberlain) felt that he had signed the doom of civilization.

    Kennedy said that if it had not been for Roosevelt the British would not have made this most gigantic blunder in history.

    Kennedy told me that he thought Roosevelt was in communication with Churchill, who was the leader of the opposition to Chamberlain, before Chamberlain was thrown out of office….

    James Forrestal, Under Secretary of the Navy, documented in his diaries a substantially similar conversation with Kennedy.

    Hoover’s Secret History of the Second World War … edited by George H. Nash
    https://books.google.com/books?id=ugFyjRLHPzcC&pg=PT761&lpg=PT761&dq=Ambassador+Potocki+on+conversation+with+Ambassador+Bullitt&source=bl&ots=D7zhs3vpcP&sig=ACfU3U1Hmz5emuNqS-66TFyApHESMkKS1Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI0ar7x5ThAhVCiOAKHeVpDM4Q6AEwBnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Ambassador%20Potocki%20on%20conversation%20with%20Ambassador%20Bullitt&f=false

  40. Hyperborean says

    The result of being the puppet of a foreign master:

    The new law states that any person who enters the country legally — and resides in it for a year legally — can get the Iraqi passport.

    […]

    Raja’s Yousef explained the fear from the new law saying: “In the nearest religious visit, if 2 million Iranian came into Iraq, and a million do not return back to Iran, after one year they will be give the Iraqi passport and a social welfare of 500,000 dinars i.e. $400 and they will send to their families back home. This is all is taken from the Iraqi orphans money.”

    […]

    Another Iraqi wrote: “The new nationalisation law aims to change the demographics in Iraq, end the presence of the Iraqi people as a genuine people and replace it with races and ethnicities from Iran, Afghanistan, India and others.”

    […]

    “Kurds are part of this society; they were victims of the sectarian and racist practices of the old regime. At the time of Saddam, they were subjected to the most heinous genocides and forced displacements, as hundreds of thousands of them were dumped in the open, on the Iranian border, and all their possessions were confiscated,” Abu Hussein added “Justice must be done and their rights returned to them”

    https://www.amren.com/news/2019/03/new-iraqi-citizenship-law-stirs-controversy/

  41. Gerard1234 says

    …and what stopped them from concentrating on defeating the British in North Africa by way of not conducting Barbarossa? Thus saving valuable resources and military power being sent east – particularly with the Italian forces at an early stage in North Africa proving to be not so successful.
    The Shah of Iran had come out of support for the Nazis, M-R pact – surely all this secured them a steady oil supply for the short-medium term?

    If you are saying that the Kriegsmarine were so outmatched by the British that they were going to get smashed in the Mediterranean sea ( thus making land /air combat in North Africa redundant) then surely you could argue that Wehrmacht combined could have turned the situation by spoiler tactics- engaging the British to such an extent -hurting their oil infrastructure in North Africa, hitting naval oil routes back to Britain – that some treaty over the oil states would have been reached? North Africa was the British Empire’s biggest source of oil.

    Let’s not forget that Britain never once entered Poland in WW2, defeating an enemy (positioned 30 km away through the Eenglish Channel) by first defeating them in North Africa, then going through Italy via the south, THEN belatedly going through northern France ( as the Soviets start liberating Europe) is practically an unheard of method of victory in war – very successful in this instance…but one in which if the Nazi’s had known this as if psychic- they would probably have thought that “North Africa – Italy – then France” method creates a series of “fail-safes” in strategy for the Nazis from they would have been very confident of not losing the war

  42. … with the Soviet Union almost an afterthought in Hitler’s world view (which would seem very questionable to me).

    He is actually highly respectful of Soviet industrial and organizational accomplishments.

    I might try to write a review in the next couple of months. Thankfully Thorfinnsson’s poasts have been a good refresher.

  43. Sure if it’s the same or similar price,I guess there is no danger to buy newer GPU.

    But nonetheless to say, with a 6 years old mid-range CPU, probably at best it will not attain performance difference of the new GPU over a few years old 1070, and at worse the CPU will bottleneck the new card and stutter (but then you could just set a fps limit at 60, so it will still be ok).

    And I guess you will also try to run the processor at 4.5 or whatever is not too hot for it? and then see how it works with the new GPU. Anyway it will be interesting to read your reports on this.

  44. India might try to collaborate with the UK (BAE Systems) on developing a new fighter plane by 2035.

    Will India and the UK Co-Develop a Sixth-Generation Fighter Aircraft?

    The United Kingdom is slated to invite India this month to jointly develop a sixth-generation fighter jet under the Tempest Future Fighter Aircraft project, according to Indian media reports. British Ministry of Defense (MoD) officials and executives from BAE Systems are expected to brief Indian MoD and Indian Air Force officials on the project during the Aero India 2019 exhibition, which will kick off in Bengaluru in the southern Indian state of Karnataka on February 18.

    “We are looking for international partners to access the best assured capability [for developing the Tempest],” Nik Khanna, the head of BAE Systems India, was quoted as saying by the Business Standard. As to India’s specific role in the Tempest project, Khanna said: “A big cost driver for a futuristic aerospace system is going to be the requirement for more and more software engineers. India has a huge capability in that area.”

    The Tempest Future Fighter Aircraft project aims to design and deploy a sixth-generation stealth fighter for the British Royal Air Force (RAF) by 2035. The project is headed by BAE Systems. Project partners to date include Italian defense contractor Leonardo for the aircraft’s integrated sensors and electronic warfare capabilities, the European consortium MBDA for the aircraft’s weapons systems, and the U.K.’s Rolls-Royce for the aircraft’s engine.

    https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/will-india-and-the-uk-co-develop-a-sixth-generation-fighter-aircraft/

  45. Vishnugupta says

    I believe the current plan as to field the much delayed LCA fighter and it’s advanced variants in some numbers thereby stabilizing the production line and then build the AMCA with technical assistance from SAAB(The company from a small country most desperate for new orders and thus most likely to transfer technology.)

    SAAB had also been roped in by S Korea for one of their KFX concepts..

    We would have to be Arab/African level stupid to collaborate with a card carrying leading member of the Anglo MIC(BAE) and expect any other outcome other than spending vast amounts of money in exchange for glorified screwdriver assembly rights with no access to source codes and no significant R&D work for Indian companies/organizations…

  46. Thorfinnsson says

    …and what stopped them from concentrating on defeating the British in North Africa by way of not conducting Barbarossa? Thus saving valuable resources and military power being sent east – particularly with the Italian forces at an early stage in North Africa proving to be not so successful.

    Logistics are the largest reason. Prior to Operation Sonnenblume, the Germans determined the largest force that could be fielded in North Africa and supplied from Italy was just four divisions (compare to the Eastern Front).

    That is not the sole reason of course, as even this Hitler refused to send. The Italians after the war accused Hitler of having a purely “continental” strategic view. Erich Raeder, commander of the Kriegsmarine, suggested taking Gibraltar (with or without Franco’s consent) and expanding into the Mediterranean.

    The German airborne invasion of Crete, while a success, perhaps in a way doomed the small Afrika Korps that Hitler did authorize. Owing to the huge losses at Crete, the Germans chose to cancel the planned invasion of Malta (Operation Hercules). Malta in turn aided the British in interdicting Italian supply convoys to Africa.

    German and Italian troops in Africa always suffered extreme shortages and relied heavily on captured equipment (by the time of 1st El Alamein over 80% of Rommel’s truck park was captured British vehicles). The situation was so bad that Axis troops in Africa even suffered from nutritional deficiencies and were jaundiced.

    The Shah of Iran had come out of support for the Nazis, M-R pact – surely all this secured them a steady oil supply for the short-medium term?

    Sort of. He simply declared neutrality and refused to expel German railwaymen and other technical specialists. Iran also reduced its trade with Germany at the request of the British.

    His actions were considered insufficient, and given the importance of Iran to Britain and the USSR the hapless country was invaded and occupied.

    In any case owing to the Royal Navy there was no way to ship Iranian oil to Germany. In theory Iranian oil could’ve been shipped overland through Turkey, but the British could’ve seized Iran (or just the oilfields) long before any such infrastructure could be built.

    If you are saying that the Kriegsmarine were so outmatched by the British that they were going to get smashed in the Mediterranean sea ( thus making land /air combat in North Africa redundant) then surely you could argue that Wehrmacht combined could have turned the situation by spoiler tactics- engaging the British to such an extent -hurting their oil infrastructure in North Africa, hitting naval oil routes back to Britain – that some treaty over the oil states would have been reached? North Africa was the British Empire’s biggest source of oil.

    The Kriegsmarine did not even have the ability to enter the Mediterranean Sea because the British controlled Gibraltar and Suez. They were able to infiltrate some U-boats.

    The Regia Marina was a fairly large force, but it did not have the same high standards as the British. It also suffered from chronic shortages of fuel and thus often was not able to sortie.

    There was no oil in North Africa then (it had not yet been discovered), and since Italy’s entry into the war convoys from the east had already been routed around the Cape of Good Hope rather than through the Mediterranean.

    An Axis victory in the Western Desert Campaign was in my view possible, but then what? Britain would be excluded from the Mediterranean…but still undefeated. Presumably Axis forces could’ve gone onto Iran, which was Britain’s major source of oil (British Petroleum was originally known as Anglo-Persian), but Britain could also import oil from the rest of the world.

    Let’s not forget that Britain never once entered Poland in WW2, defeating an enemy (positioned 30 km away through the Eenglish Channel) by first defeating them in North Africa, then going through Italy via the south, THEN belatedly going through northern France ( as the Soviets start liberating Europe) is practically an unheard of method of victory in war – very successful in this instance…but one in which if the Nazi’s had known this as if psychic- they would probably have thought that “North Africa – Italy – then France” method creates a series of “fail-safes” in strategy for the Nazis from they would have been very confident of not losing the war

    The British did draw up plans to invade Soviet-occupied Eastern Europe in 1945 in order to liberate Poland, but the plan was not carried out for reasons of sanity. The planners clearly had a sense of humor as the plan was named Operation Unthinkable.

    As a seapower on the edge of Europe with limited amounts of manpower Britain traditionally exerted itself on the continent through its navy and commercial power. It did field a respectable army, but it was never large and always fought in coalition. After the 100 Years War the only time Britain ever fielded a massive army in Europe for many years in a row was in WW1.

    British strategy against Germany was fixed in 1936 to focus on strategic bombing. It was in 1936 that the Air Ministry issued Specification P.13/36 for a “worldwide bomber”. This ultimately led to the Avro Lancaster, superior to the American B-17 and B-24. In order to mollify the French, the Chamberlain government also agreed to send a small expeditionary force (the BEF) to the Continent again as in 1914.

    The Anglo-French plan was to stay on the defensive while strangling Germany with economic warfare. They would then use their superior resources (Britain and France had a GDP 60% larger than Germany and Italy) to eventually overwhelm Germany. This was in effect what had worked in WW1, and the defensive mindset was common to a generation of leaders who had cut their teeth fighting the exceptionally skilled German army and had no desire to repeat the horrors of the Somme and Verdun.

    Yes, obviously this meant that they never intended to lift a finger for Poland. Too bad for the idiot Poles for being duped by the West.

    Unfortunately for their clever plan, the French were unexpectedly completely defeated. In fact, while the Entente expected Poland’s defeat, they also thought Poland would hold out for three months rather than three weeks.

    The British were still focused on their strategic bombing plan (which ultimately developed into a terrifying weapon), but were forced to improvise. As German_reader pointed out, obviously the British alone invading Europe (right after losing all their army’s heavy equipment) to face the entire German army was suicidal.

    In fact the British never wanted to invade Europe again at all after the Fall of France except in peripheral actions meant to advance postwar British strategic interests. They had to be dragooned into invading Europe by America, which was more eager to fight and had superior resources.

    In fairness to the British their strategic bombing plan was sound as demonstrated by the Battle of the Ruhr.

  47. About a potential monitor upgrade:

    1440 p is very much worth it (4k is only useful if you’re willing to spend a lot of money on monitor and pc upgrades). 120 or more hertz instead of 60 is even more worth it (even if you primarily or only play single player), a real and visible difference.

  48. Thorfinnsson says

    Note: it seems there was some oil production in Egypt. Here are global oil production figures from 1940:

    USA 182.657 Mt
    USSR 29.700 Mt
    Venezuela 27.443 Mt
    Iran 10.426 Mt
    Indonesia 7.939 Mt
    Mexico 6.721 Mt
    Romania 5.764 Mt
    Columbia 3.636 Mt
    Iraq 3.438 Mt
    Argentina 2.871 Mt
    Trinidad 2.844 Mt
    Peru 1.776 Mt
    Burma 1.088 Mt
    Canada 1.082 Mt
    Egypt 0.929 Mt

    Source: https://wayback.archive-it.org/6321/20160901222852/http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/league/le0280ah.pdf

    Oil production of Roumania, Iraq, and Iran is about two-thirds the Soviet level. It certainly does suggest an alternative strategy.

    Possible problems with this strategy from Hitler’s POV in the fall of 1940:

    • Requires extensive cooperation with other countries (Italy, Spain, Turkey, etc.)
    • German arms “wasted” for the benefit of other countries
    • Little grain and no coal to be had in North Africa and the Near East
    • Transportation difficulties
    • Continued dependence on the USSR

  49. A lot of the “real” Arabs seem to have somewhat tenuous demographics. Not exactly collapsing TFR, but just copious amounts of foreign workers, many of them subcon or Indonesian Muslims who can claim being brothers in Islam. Then there are all the “natives” with heavy African ancestry from Zanj days, (in Iraq, 500,000) as well as those recently arrived Africans who are desperate even to cross into Yemen.

    Their political system is mainly constructed from big men writing checks. Perhaps, tribal politics makes it unlikely that they will write those big checks to Africans and Pakis. They don’t seem to suffer from one-worldism, as the foreign laborers are generally treated like helots and often sex-segregated.

    BTW, Trump is calling for the Golan Heights to be recognized as part of Israel. No wonder he is on Israeli campaign posters! Is there any real difference between him and Bibi?

  50. Trump is calling for the Golan Heights

    Unless later Democrat presidents will reverse it, Trump is giving – or trying to give – all the most serious possible victories to Israel.

    Probably in order of significance.
    1. Trying to recognize Israel’s annexation of Golan Heights, which is rebelling against all previous US governments, and all international consensus. (Golan Heights is perhaps more militarily significant for Israel, than Crimea for Russia).
    2. Leaving Iran nuclear deal (this results in economic sanctions which limit Iran’s expansion).
    3. Moving embassy to Jerusalem.

    However, Israel becomes now a partisan topic in American politics, and is associated with Trump.

    This will contribute to future instability in US attitude to Israel, as Republican become more pro-Israel, and Democrats more anti-Israel, every year. Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal – so as a partisan topic, Israel will only be supported so strongly, half of the time.

    Nonetheless, a country like Ukraine would be very happy if it would become even noticed enough to be a slightly partisan topic in American politics.

    Is there any real difference between him and Bibi?

    Netanyahu is less of an Israel partisan – he tried to return the Golan Heights to Syria more than one time.

  51. Netanyahu is less of an Israel partisan – he tried to return the Golan Heights to Syria more than one time.

    Apparently, it was two times:

    In 1998:
    http://www.danielpipes.org/311/the-road-to-damascus-what-netanyahu-almost-gave-away

    And in 2010:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-prepared-to-hand-back-golan-heights-to-syria-in-return-for-peace-say-reports-8209612.html

    It would have destroyed his popularity – Israel has its only ski resort there.

  52. Anonymous says

    I think Trump is playing brilliant politics here, and I am no fanboy of his. Democrats are becoming more critical of Israel, but it is still a wedge issue for them, at this time probably the most salient and divisive one. Probably the majority of Democratic voters have a generally neutral-to-negative view of Israel, and now the more strident anti-Zionists (typically younger voters and non-whites) have a voice in Congress with Reps. Omar and Tlaib. But the Dem establishment (embodied in Pelosi and Schumer) is still strongly pro-Israel, and Jewish donors are still a major (really, the major) source of fundraising for establishment Dems.

    This is combustible on many levels: to criticize Omar and Tlaib as a Dem is to open oneself up to allegations of sexism, racism, xenophobia and Islamophobia, which can be lethal to one’s career. To support or even tolerate them is to risk alienating Jewish money. All this occurs against the backdrop of Israel taking an increasingly hard line on the settlements and the question of identity, especially if Bibi is re-elected. And Omar and Tlaib, far from being fringe back-benchers, are hip and popular; along with AOC, they have possession of the souls of the young and non-white voters that the Dems are utterly dependent on.

    The Democrats are totally schizophrenic on this issue, and Trump knows it. So he will continually try to up the ante, to push any kind of pro-Israel legislation he can think of, to goad Omar and Tlaib into making more brash statements and to goad the Dems into voting against Israel. He hopes that there will be more intra-party struggle sessions and that they waste time drafting resolutions against each other. And then, come 2020, he will run ads in Florida marketed towards elderly Jews positioning himself as the greatest Zionist since Ben-Gurion. Trump is a piss-poor legislator but he is brilliant in PR.

  53. LondonBob says

    What evidence do you have FDR wasn’t completely committed to fighting?

  54. reiner Tor says

    Jewish crypsis means that they always have to adapt ideologies which are not explicitly pro-Jewish, only implicitly so. But the ideologies have lives of their own, and they could always easily turn out ultimately anti-Jewish. For example Bolshevism turned out to be less good for the Jews than originally imagined. Similarly with multiculturalism, it will likely be negative for the Jews, longer term.

    But they never seem to be smart enough. They are not very good at universalistic thinking, and so they don’t really understand the direction of these ideologies even as they already start turning on them. See the numerous Jews supporting Bolshevism still in the early 1950s, long after it ceased being good for the Jews.

    Some Jews might already see it, but they still usually cling to some parts of the old and already useless (in fact, outright dangerous) ideology.

  55. reiner Tor says

    Orbán also seems to consider this strategy: trying to get the Israeli Jews on his side. It might work, though as the Israeli tirade against Poland shows, it’s not an easy thing to pull off.

  56. Well, the first one is a sensible tactical advice on wedge formations, I kid you not.

  57. LondonBob says

    German manufacturing PMI comes in at just 44.7. The global economic slowdown continues, China and the Eurozone bearing the brunt.

    I forecast a no deal Brexit shortly further hitting the Eurozone.

  58. LondonBob says

    An invasion of France in ’43 would have been disastrous. We had the benefit of experience from Dieppe to know how risky it was. Had the Panzers deployed sooner the actual invasion in ’44 might have similarly ended in disaster.

  59. Gerard1234 says

    Thanks for that…. very interesting.Basic and lazy errors about oil from myself there – my apologies!

  60. RFE/RL is a Russophobic cesspool paid by the US government.

  61. He is also supporting and endless stream of non whites entering America (whether they are legal or illegal the end result is the same), which means Democrats win. He lied to his base, he is a fraud and also a moron politically. He cared more about what happens to faraway Israel instead of whites being persecuted in the land he is officially supposed to represent.

  62. Hyperborean says

    Their political system is mainly constructed from big men writing checks. Perhaps, tribal politics makes it unlikely that they will write those big checks to Africans and Pakis. They don’t seem to suffer from one-worldism, as the foreign laborers are generally treated like helots and often sex-segregated.

    The many of smaller Gulf states are like 70-90% non-core population, granted some of that will be expats, who while not exactly favourable to the native Arabs won’t be hostile.

    I don’t think anything serious will happen as long as the KSA has the power to intervene, but if Saudi Arabia gets embroiled in domestic troubles, things might get interesting.

    Even if a gastarbeiter revolt is crushed, given that the Gulf Arabs haven’t worked for generations, the small countries would face a lot of economic instability.

    An amusing anecdote about Arab hypocrisy (beyond the anal sex that is): One of my elder brothers, who works for a large corporation, was stationed in Qatar and he told me that in order to access deviant beverages forbidden to natives some Arab men would discard their Bedouin dress and put on suits and then walk into establishments that are allowed to serve alcohol to foreigners.

  63. LondonBob says

    Obesity is the issue to look out for, the ones I see around Knightsbridge are enormous and gorge themselves on cakes whilst avoiding any form of exercise.

  64. Hyperborean says

    And then, come 2020, he will run ads in Florida marketed towards elderly Jews positioning himself as the greatest Zionist since Ben-Gurion. Trump is a piss-poor legislator but he is brilliant in PR.

    Trump’s actions are consistent with decades of support for Israel.

  65. for-the-record says

    Over a century, amount of time America has Republican presidents and Democrat presidents will be approximately equal

    Not over the next century, I would hazard to predict. But I think your basic point is valid, as its demographic base changes the Democratic Party will be less pro-Israel in the future.

  66. for-the-record says

    Orbán also seems to consider this strategy: trying to get the Israeli Jews on his side

    On the other hand (hope you have deep pockets):

    DC court says Holocaust survivors can sue Hungary in the US for huge reparations

    The second-highest court in the United States has reinstated a lawsuit brought by a group of Holocaust survivors and their families against the government of Hungary and its national railroad. The class action suit demands restitution for the role Hungary played in the murder of 500,000 Jews and the seizure of their property during World War II.

    Setting the stage for what could be a landmark civil suit running into the tens of billions of dollars, Judge Patricia A. Millett wrote for the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit on December 28 that Hungary could not force the plaintiffs to have the case tried in a Hungarian court.

    The decision overturned that of a federal judge who ruled that the 1947 Paris Peace Treaty between Hungary and the Allied powers granted Hungary immunity. . .

    Over the past 20 years, the Hungarian government has made a pretense of allowing Hungarian Holocaust victims to file claims for their losses, said Zell, but he called the payouts “tantamount to a joke.”

    . . . Zell said that the case against the Hungarian government and the national railway, Magyar Allamvasutak, could see a significant financial claim filed on behalf of Jewish Holocaust survivors.

    “We didn’t put a number in this case, but if it goes forward we’ll be asking for tens of billions of dollars of compensation, which is the amount that would be owed based on the value of the property that was taken at the time of the deportations to the camps,” said Zell. . .

    If the case makes it all the way to a final judgment, the plaintiffs would likely seek satisfaction from Hungarian assets in the US or elsewhere, said Zell.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/dc-court-says-holocaust-survivors-can-sue-hungary-in-the-us-for-huge-reparations/

  67. It’s indeed an interesting essay that presents a good, balanced view of the complex motives that precipitated the dropping of two A-bombs over Japan. It frames the question of the morality of the decision, in the eyes of those opposed to it quite accurately:

    that those for whom he use of the A-bomb was “wrong” seem to be implying “that it would have been better to allow thousands on thousands of American and Japanese infantrymen to die in honest hand-to-hand combat on the beaches than to drop those two bombs.”

    Also, throughout the piece the author emphasizes that it’s easier to make judgements after the fact , than to be on the ground fighting a ferocious war faced with pragmatic considerations.

    For me, the overriding factor is indeed that so many civilians were wasted. Soldiers are by design created to fight wars, civilians are not. This is one of the reasons, I suppose that you are so adamantly opposed to the wasting of Polish civilians in Volhynia by bloodthirsty UPA troops? The principle is the same, only the scope of casualties is so very much larger. Who had the moral authority to shift the soldier’s responsibility over to an unwary civilian population?

    1. The soldier/civilian dichotomy is less than absolute when most of the soldiers are conscripts.

    2. It is very reasonable for states to value the lives of their own citizens over those of foreigners (especially when said foreigners initiated the hostilities against them).

  68. Thorfinnsson says

    Civilians fight wars through economic activity which sustains military forces in the field. Their morale also maintains the government which issues orders to said military forces, and the Japanese government in the summer of 1945 was actually quite concerned about this. Hence the Anglo-American strategic bombing doctrine.

    Debates over the morality of the American decision to nuke Japan strike me as extremely silly considering that America (and Britain) had already been carpet bombing Axis civilians (and even non-Axis civilians) for years. The Anglo-Americans also imposed naval blockades on the Axis (and the WW1 Central Powers), including on food and medicine.

    Frankly, dying from an atomic bomb strikes me as greatly preferable from being burned alive by fire bombing. Operation Meetinghouse, the fire bombing of Tokyo, immolated 100,000 people. What the Anglo-Americans did to Dresden is of course well known.

    As such I am forced to conclude that the real motive for decrying the usage of the atomic bombs is atomophobia. These faux humanitarians rarely have issues with incendiary and high explosive bombs.

  69. The principle is the same, only the scope of casualties is so very much larger.

    It’s not similar at all: the atomic bombs were dropped out of military necessity (I realise people dispute this), massacring 100,000 Polish civilians was because of Ukranian nationalist fantasism and bloodlust

  70. Civilians fight wars through economic activity which sustains military forces in the field.

    You make a good point here. If I remember correctly from my college history courses, civilians weren’t regularly targeted during wartime until the 20th century? I realize that I’m being naive to hope that wartime activities could be curtailed to resemble those of medieval times, when it was almost a 9 -5 job, with weekends and holidays off (without pay?).

  71. The Leokrem add works for me – more Vitamin D please. 🙂

  72. Thorfinnsson says

    Civilians have been routinely targeted in warfare since warfare has existed. The earliest “wars”, between tribes of hunter-gatherers, had the aim of killing off the other tribe’s men in order to seize all their women and hunting lands. The development of agriculture made the men useful as slaves and spared their lives, at least the younger ones.

    There have been at various times wars and rules of wars which make efforts to spare civilians, and there have been wars in which targeting civilians do not make military sense (owing to rapid military victory in the field).

    Common civilizations historically have developed rules of war and fought many wars over “honor” in which these rules were generally respected. Classical Greece, Medieval Europe, Europe from 1648-1914, etc. The rules tend to crumble in long, bitter conflicts (see the American Civil War). They also aren’t observed by outsiders, which was a chronic problem Christians faced when attacked by Vikings (who wouldn’t follow rules like allowing enemy forces an unmolested river crossing) or when anyone faced the Mongols.

    What really changed in the 20th century was the development of airpower. You can be sure that someone like General Sherman would’ve been thrilled to carpet bomb civilians had he possessed an air force.

  73. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    I don’t believe that our being the dominant world power has made us any better as a nation in the most important metric, which is moral excellence – arete. I drive from Pennsylvania to the Midwest and see a heartbroken place of absurdly unreasonable decay.

    Although some of the paleocons, like Pat Buchanan, really don’t have a big problem with American foreign policy until relatively recently. Buchanan is rather quietly a bit of a Russophobe, at least by today’s dissident right standards. Guys like that don’t seem to mind being less than isolationist, but they do decry the decline in the nation’s interior. Maybe this is what Trumpism is really all about.

  74. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    Because he is citing Ron Unz’s essay about the 1940 Presidential election, this means he means that an “isolationist” Republican (not Wendell Wilkie) wins the 1940 Presidential election. Senator Robert “Mr. Conservative” Taft of Ohio for instance.

    There was a great paranoid Jewish perspective about the 1940 election in which Charles Lindbergh somehow gets the GOP nomination and becomes President. The perspective was in a novel by Philip Roth called ‘The Plot Against America.’ Luckily no characters spend time acting out sexual fantasies with baked goods or plants, as in other Roth novels.

    Since the novel was written by a bizarre person (Roth), obviously the heinous criminal Lindbergh creates an anti-Semitic America, or something.

    Bill Kauffman wrote a very funny and derisive review of this book

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/heil-to-the-chief/

  75. You’re obviously correct about the inclusion of civilian casualties during ancient times. What I had in mind were the ‘rules of war’ that you allude to, most likely primarily developed in Europe, which I only half sarcastically describe in my description of war during medieval times.

  76. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    Random

    If anyone likes sports but hates SJWs, I recommend watching the American NCAA D1 wrestling national championships, currently in progress in Pittsburgh. Most of the remaining action is available on ESPN.

    Most of the wrestlers are macho straight white males, so it’s fairly refreshing and a nice contrast from virtually every other sport now.

    Wrestling is somehow still one of the last frontiers in America for men. Although when I watch youth wrestling, I see an increasing number of matches involving boys wrestling girls. Because the wackos have to ruin everything. I get such a weird feeling in my stomach, an involuntary response, when I see girls wrestling boys. It’s just not right, man.

    The other great countries in wrestling today are Iran and the countries between Iran and Russia. Russia wins lots of medals, but it seems most of their wrestlers are ethnic Chechens, Ingush, Ossetians, whatever. Countries like Japan have a decent tradition too.

  77. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    -93% of railway equipment (locomotives, freight cars, wide gauge rails, etc.)

    !!!

    Good grief!!

  78. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    Gallup opinion polling in 1939 also asked Americans if they should help their British “blood brothers” which I found interesting.

    You’re obviously more knowledgeable than I on statistics to do with America, Germany, and Britain in that period of history. With that said, my perception is that Americans of generic “British ancestry” (I mean including people like the Scotch-Irish, who once produced the thoroughly anti-English Andrew Jackson) became more fond of Great Britain as time wore on.

    My ancestry is primarily 18th and 19th century German immigrant stock, so I vaguely perceive a difference between myself and British heritage Americans. Those Americans sure as heck don’t seem to have been terribly philo-English in the middle of the 19th century, although (according to Civil War historian William Freehling) there were pockets that favored England, in places like South Carolina. But South Carolina was always something of an anomaly, even in the South. And in general, this concept of “blood brotherhood” seems like a relatively recent conception. And considering that we had a war scare with Britain as late as the 1890s, I wonder if it was all but within the last 20 years or so before World War 1.

    I also wonder if this “blood brotherhood” idea was very much secondary to the main reason Americans accepted the Second World War, which was the “back door” with Japan. The First World War’s 1917 entrance seems more likely to have been inspired by some supposed tie of kinship.

    I’m hesitant to make much heavy judgment, though. What do you think?

  79. B.P Bollocksworth says

    The thing holding me back from upgrading my PC is that I have the last AMD process that doesn’t have the hardware backdoor. I just can’t sleep at night knowing there’s a guaranteed backdoor on my system.

  80. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    Sherman’s record is a bit ambiguous, in fact. His conception of “hard war” was different from “total war.”

    Joseph T. Glatthaar’s book ‘The March to the Sea and Beyond’ is a good one to read. In it, we learn that Joseph Wheeler’s Confederate cavalry, who did not draw any rations from the CSA government from early 1864 until the war’s end, lived off the Georgia countryside more thoroughly than most of Sherman’s troops.

    Most Georgia hamlets that got burned were burned because someone shot at the army from a barn or something. And North Carolina got off fairly easy, due to having been the last state to secede.

    The march’s infamous reputation in Georgia was actually merited, probably, only in South Carolina; many of the Union men cursed SC for starting the long war and so let their inhibitions drop.

    In Columbia, SC, Sherman’s officers posted guards to protect buildings, but the drunken soldiers simply overwhelmed them with numbers of “firebugs” who threw torches into the homes.

    Even some Southerners, though, admitted that many local civilians – of both races, interestingly! – willingly sold whiskey to the passing soldiers, which exacerbated their rage.

    Of course, even then, all of this has nothing in comparison to the average war in the Balkans.

    Among Union generals, Sheridan and Custer were far harsher in the Shenandoah Valley in 1864 than Sherman ever was. Sherman genuinely seems to have liked Southerners, apart from politics; Braxton Bragg was a close friend, and Joseph Johnston was a pall-bearer at Sherman’s funeral. But Sheridan (whom I hate) and Custer would have both liked carpet bombing the Southern civilians. Sheridan and Custer’s burning of the valley also inspired the totally ruthless Confederate cavalry raid on Chambersburg, PA, which resulted in the burning of the entire town except, oddly enough, the local Masonic temple.

    (By the way, the favorite hobby of Confederates invading Pennsylvania and Maryland was to capture local blacks and sell them into slavery – nice little throwback to the ancient days, eh? When they tried this in Greencastle, PA in 1863, a mob of local farmers attacked the rebels and freed the Union prisoners and 10 or 20 blacks they were driving through town.)

    Know who else would have liked carpet bombing? Stonewall Jackson. Jackson’s been called the ‘Southern Cromwell’ for good reason.

  81. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    And just for the record:

    Custer had it coming at Little Big Horn

    Good for you, Cheyenne primitives

  82. Bari Weiss (American Jewish centre-right columnist and staunch Zionist) did a fawning piece on Israel’s Blue and White coalition for the NYT, and one of the main reasons she cited for admiring them is that, unlike Bibi, they won’t be friendly with Orban and Bolsonaro.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/opinion/netanyahu-israel-yair-lapid.html

    This is unironically the level many American Jews work on with regards to Israel: please reconquer all of Judea and Samaria, but don’t you dare be friendly with some guy who said mean stuff about gays! Palestinian blood is unimportant compared to having a designated prayer space for women at the Western Wall.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/opinion/religion/israel-women-western-wall.html

  83. Thorfinnsson says

    I don’t have roots in this country, but I don’t think the idea of kinship between Britons and heritage Americans is a 20th century invention. This kinship however was not taken to mean that there should be an alignment between America and Britain given the then substantial ideological differences between the two countries (as Tom Paine, himself born in Britain, pointed out).

    An example from the 19th century during the Great Exhibition:

    The lock controversy continues a subject of great interest at the Crystal Palace, and, indeed, is now become of general importance. We believed before the Exhibition opened that we had the best locks in the world, and among us Bramah and Chubb were reckoned quite as impregnable as Gibraltar— more so, indeed, for the key to the Mediterranean was taken by us, but none among us could penetrate into the locks and shoot the bolts of these masters. The mechanical spirit, however, is never at rest, and if it is lulled into a false state of listlessness in one branch of industry, and in one part of the world, elsewhere it springs up suddenly to admonish and reproach us with our supineness. Our descendents on the other side of the water are every now and then administering to the mother country a wholesome filial lesson upon this very text, and recently they have been “rubbing us up” with a severity which perhaps we merited for sneering at their shortcomings in the Exhibition.

    There were also many reports of American sailors (up to and including US Navy warships exceeding their orders) in the 19th century risking life and limb to fight Japanese and Chinese on behalf of British sailors with kinship as the stated reason.

    Britain faced a number of challenging strategic decisions as the Fin de siècle approached, and its leaders decided to appease America. That appeasement has continued right to the present day.

    British appeasement satisfied America’s leaders, and what was later known as the “Eastern Establishment” in turn had developed deeply co-mingled interests with Britain owing to the financial relationship between Wall Street and the City of London. That Americans and especially their leaders were then largely of British stock made the decision to support Britain in both World Wars that much easier.

  84. Thorfinnsson says

    Have you tried turning your PC off at night?

  85. Thorfinnsson says

    Good points–I should’ve named Sheridan over Sherman.

    Presumably Winfield Scott, architect of the Anaconda Plan, would’ve approved of strategic bombing.

  86. I agree Trump is very clever in marketing (I was sure he was going to be President already when I first saw him talking about it in 2012 in YouTube).

    However, he is not cynical. He believes his policies, like tariffs, Israel and border walls.

    Some of these are consistent for all his life. You can see him discussing trade protectionism in the 1980s on television.

    With Israel, the reason everyone knew he was going to be the most pro-Israel American president (before he became president), was because he was personally funding Israeli settlements since 1981.

    His name is in townsquares in two settlements in Israel as a largest donor to their establishment

    https://i.imgur.com/VDEY0Sy.jpg?1

    He wins awards like:

    https://i.imgur.com/4wy3w8n.jpg

    He led “Salute to Israel” parade in 2004 (lol how does this exist?)

    https://i.imgur.com/yGgLMVB.jpg

    In 2006, he spent $44 million to buy land in Israel

    Donald Trump completes $44m purchase of Elite site

    https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-1000105798

    Just searching now for this topic, and saw he bought 4 ambulance cycles for Israel in 2014 (there’s probably a lot more things like this):

    Beer will be meeting with Trump at his office tomorrow to get the check that will pay for the four new ambucycles.
    Beer commended Trump for his donation, adding “he is a true lover of Israel.”

    https://www.vosizneias.com/154841/2014/02/10/new-york-trump-to-donate-rescue-bikes-to-israels-united-hatzalah/

  87. reiner Tor says

    What is (are) the best book(s) about the American Civil War?

  88. Shelby Foote’s The Civil War: A Narrative.
    James MacPherson’s Battle Cry of Freedom for a Northern perspective.

  89. Cromwell and Jackson strongly encouraged religious devotion in their troops, viewed themselves as instruments of God as well as being the two generals who shone out the most in their respective civil wars. I am not aware that Cromwell committed any atrocities, the only three I am aware of are the massacre of Bolton residents by Royalists, and the massacre at the siege of Basing House where Cromwell was the commander and some womenfolk camp followers who were killed at some battle. Cromwell’s conduct was exemplary, despite Irish and Royalist black propaganda otherwise.

  90. German_reader says

    General Sherman would’ve been thrilled to carpet bomb civilians had he possessed an air force.

    iirc Sherman’s orders during his campaign in the American South were mostly aimed at destroying property like plantations, railway stock etc. The number of civilians killed by his forces wasn’t that high.

  91. German_reader says

    I second LondonBob’s recommendation of McPherson’s Battle cry of freedom, probably the best single-volume history of the war (and it isn’t a purely military history, but devotes a lot of attention to political issues, with the first 300 pages or so dealing with the political crises of the 1850s and the 1860 election).

  92. German_reader says

    but don’t you dare be friendly with some guy who said mean stuff about gays!

    In regards to Orban (or Polish right-wingers, or really any kind of European nationalist, no matter how moderate) the issue isn’t homo stuff or other liberal pieties, but rather insufficient grovelling before the altar of eternal Jewish victimhood. The appointed role for Europeans here is that of descendants of Holocaust perpetrators who have to perpetually abase themselves, accept the multicultural restructuring of their societies (so Jews can feel safe/enact their vengeance), and are somehow exspected at the same time to swallow all the ahistorical myth-making of Zionists and uncritically support Israel (because Jewish nationalism is for some reason apparently the only legitimate nationalism).

  93. Thorfinnsson says

    John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan already corrected me on that point, but the correction does not rule out the connection of Sherman’s March to the Sea with 20th century strategic bombing.

    It does admittedly rule out morale bombing, which would include the atomic bombings. Most infamously RAF Bomber Command has a doctrine of “dehousing” specifically intended to demoralize German workers. That said even Bomber Command’s “area bombing” was often targeted at industrial concentrations.

    American strategic bombing doctrine was specifically focused on industrial targets until Curtis LeMay adopted a modified British approach to Japan.

    Civilian casualties were higher than earlier forms of economic warfare, but that was owed to the inaccuracy of high altitude bombing.

  94. Thorfinnsson says

    The current, bizarre Jewish campaign against Poland is a case in point–and exceptionally weird.

    If anyone can compete with the Jews in WW2 victimhood it’s the Poles.

    But now we learn that Poland shoah’d the SIX MILLION…

  95. Gerard1234 says

    thanks for that – very interesting. Big and lazy errors from myself about oil production during the war – my apologies!

  96. German_reader says

    The current, bizarre Jewish campaign against Poland is a case in point–and exceptionally weird.

    Much weirder though imo is that there’s so much gentile support for Jewish nationalism, even though there’s almost zero reciprocity.
    There are tons of gentiles who get very, very emotionally invested in their defense of Israel and Zionism, not least on the so-called right (it’s of course especially bad in the US where things are just grotesque, but there are many such people in Europe as well, across the political spectrum). I don’t understand the psychology of those people.

  97. Thorfinnsson says

    The successful “Judeo-Christian” psyop along with the suppression of negative information about the Jews explains this.

    To the ignorant but patriotic Westerner Israel appears to be a kind of fellow Western country struggling against evil Muslims and demented liberals. This sort of person is completely unaware of the fact that Jews (at least diaspora Jews) hate him.

    The situation in America is particularly bad owing to the sheer number of Jews here as well as the weird heresy of Christian Zionism.

    There is admittedly some reciprocity from Israel itself lately. Netanyahu has been cozying up with the Visegrad group, Trump, Bolsonaro, etc. This draws outraged condemnation from the diaspora.

  98. reiner Tor says

    This court case has been going on for at least five (or maybe ten?) years now. It has been thrown out of court at least once, though it’s probably the furthest it has ever come.

    The case itself seems to be, on the face of it, quite ridiculous: they are suing the Hungarian State Railways for its role in the holocaust. I mean, it’s not like the state railways company was in any position to make decisions or anything. Regarding the Hungarian government. It’s not like Hungary (whose lawful prime minister had to hide in the Turkish embassy, and then was arrested by the Germans and sent to Mauthausen) was in any position to resist the Germans. Regarding the lost property: all Hungarian citizens lost all or most of their property between 1944 and 1961 (the final collectivization), and they didn’t regain any of it. Regarding the amount demanded: sure, it’s like present-day Hungarians (the oldest of whom were all very young in 1944) should pay a year of their GDP to a few hundred or thousand survivors, or the descendants of the survivors (who arguably didn’t suffer anything – they were born after the thing happened…)

    If the goal was to increase anti-Semitism, then sure, dude.

  99. Gerard1234 says

    but are you saying that he’s so pro-Israel that it accounts for his heavily anti-Russia policy( in that Russia is aligned with Syria and semi-aligned with Iran)? Or that he’s forced into this by the rest of American apparatus?

    As for Russia and Israel – I’ve always viewed the relationship as broadly , positive, but Israel have at times assisted either the state or individuals in Gruzia and Ukraine that are hostile to Russia….and I did note with interest that when practically every western state sent their most important leaders to Shimon Peres’s funeral…..not a single one of Russia’s big politicians went there – not VVP,Medvedev, Lavrov, Matvienko, Volodin . Obviously the US sent everyone, Fra, Spain, Germany ,UK, Italy all sent their PM/Presidents and constitutional monarchs – but nobody for Russia

    Poroshenko did though, laughably go to that march in Paris in solidarity over the Charlie Hebdo killings .

  100. LondonBob says

    Major General JFC Fuller wrote a few books on the American Civil War, for a strictly military assessment then you can’t beat the analysis of arguably the twentieth century’s preeminent military theorist.

  101. Yeah, most people get very tense when they have to ski abroad. I mean, look at the Saudis and Qataris – they have to make artificial snow! And the shithole countries, without any kind of snow, real or artificial, are SO SAD!

    And the lack of ski resorts is even more painful if you are talking about Jews, some of the most sporty characters this planet has spawned.

    Just like the Saudi entity has spread over the last 150 years from nothing, the Jewish entity is spreading its creep in its proximity. Luckily, they are both in a place cursed by nature and inhabited by morons, so almost no one care about the precise border, and the few who don’t like it, can’t do much. If they would visit us only for ski and snow, the rest of the world would be a better place.

  102. See the numerous Jews supporting Bolshevism still in the early 1950s, long after it ceased being good for the Jews.

    It’s an autistic theory of mind.

    What you believe is influenced by emotions and this has a racial component particularly when minorities want stronger position in society. Ideologies which favor the latter,may have a more rosy emotional coloration (i.e. seem more attractive).

    But people cannot actually believe or not believe in truth of something, on basis of “racial interest and longterm conspiracies”. They believe it because they believe it is the true description of reality.

    Marxism was more religion than political theory, and like Christianity a Jewish-originated religion – (it’s structure almost the same as Christianity), whose liberation was universalist. And people who believed it, believed because they thought it was universally true and factual description of reality.

    It was designed for educated people of the era, designed to be easy to believe (supernatural explanations are hidden by Hegelian concepts like “dialectic”), and for Jews it gave opportunity to “completely assimilate” (covert to a kind living Christianity, rather than the formal one which no longer had influence in the world).

    Attraction of Marxism for Jews, precisely is to escape both their external and internal position as Jews, and dissolve into a universal faith and utopia.

    Minus utopia, of course, this is what will have occurred with much of (or most?) Jews believers of Marxism. Their grandchildren today, will usually be 3/4 Slavic, and their great-grandchildren, 7/8 Slavic.

    The “racial interest” to convert to Marxism was to dissolve an unpleasant and dangerous position as Jews, to become important citizens, and this is what happened for a large proportion of them.

    Similarly with multiculturalism, it will likely be negative for the Jews,

    Multiculturalism is intrinsically attractive for a large proportion of any population.

    Putin is not Jewish, but he loves multiculturalism almost as his main religion. Merkel is not Jewish, and loves it. Obama not Jewish and loves it.

    It was one of the ideologies which has included both sides of the Cold War. If you think this is only attractive to Jews, and not something intrinsically and universally attractive to a significant proportion of people, then you will soon be confused (unless you extend the conspiracy to include all these people like Putin and Merkel being controlled by Jews).

    Multiculturalism is definitely a “utopian” ideology though, and will soon collapse against reality in most countries.

  103. Israel has its only ski resort there

    It’s like another Shoah!

  104. Multiculturalism is definitely a “utopian” ideology though, and will soon collapse against reality in most countries.

    Because it’s so utopian and unrealistic, it’s going to be always attractive and almost ineliminable with a proportion of the public. Demand for utopian things is eternal.

    The way to solve will probably happen on the supply side – which would be substitution an equally utopian and unrealistic ideology for multiculturalism (as multiculturalism had earlier substituted for Marxism).

    I guess the new gay religion is already partly substituting, although it’s too compatible with the multiculturalist religion, to push it out.

    Of course, ideologies cannot be created on this cynical basis. You need to actually believe them to create an effective ones.

  105. German_reader says

    Multiculturalism is intrinsically attractive for a large proportion of any population.

    It’s true that there is significant support for multiculturalism among white gentiles, and the importance of any Jewish influence on the emergence and spread of the concept can certainly be debated (though I believe it’s not non-existent, see e.g. Horace Kallen). However imo you miss one important distinction. A white gentile in favour of multiculturalism and lax immigration controls will usually appeal to some abstract universalist ideal, there’s no sense that he’s in favour of it because it’s good for his own group (usually he thinks he doesn’t have a own group, the aspiration is that we’ll all be merely “human”). By contrast, many Jews explicitly state that they’re in favour of multiculturalism and high immigration because they think it’s good for them as Jews (e.g. Yascha Mounk explicitly linked his support for mass immigration to his feeling of alienation as a Jew when growing up in Germany, and says things like “A society that is welcoming to Muslims, is also welcoming to Jews” – he’s clearly arguing from perceived self-interest, and arguments of that kind are common among spokesmen of Jewish organizations).

    It was one of the ideologies which has included both sides of the Cold War.

    Multiculturalism and “antiracism” were around during the Cold war, but only exploded in significance after the Cold war. The 1980s were very different from what came later, a kind of Indian summer for the white world.

  106. They have missiles on them there so

  107. While one shouldn’t excuse German hubris and poor intelligence, the fact that the Red Army had assembled more tanks and aircraft than the rest of the world combined was certainly shocking to everyone.

    Those “total numbers” are bogus when one looks at the breakdown by type, vintage and condition in June 1941.
    https://i.imgur.com/PQKCeKt.png
    https://i.imgur.com/TcTCtCl.png
    https://i.imgur.com/2uMWQSr.png
    https://i.imgur.com/rolbqEC.png

    A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.)

    ZiS-2 – discontinued because German tanks similarly powerful to KV-3, KV-4 didn’t materialise – instead, thousands of Pz. II, Pz. 35, Pz. 38, Pz. III and Pz. IV with 30 mm frontal armour invaded.
    ZiS-2 had very high MV, high barrel wear, and would go right through them.
    T-34-57 Tank Destroyers were discontinued for the same reason.

    The most dangerous adversary for Allied and Soviet tankers – PaKs, Panzerjaeger detachments (both towed and self-propelled) and StuGs. Tank vs. tank warfare was advised against – Rommel, Guderian and Mainstein being explicit about it. In 1941 whenever Panzers met head-on with Soviet tank brigades, they suffered badly. The key in Barbarossa was being on the strategic offensive, attacking along unsuspected axes, deep-striking with Panzers at vulnerable targets and letting the Infantry mop up the survivors. Soviet mechanized corps would be ordered to counterattack, break encirclement, react to German advances and then go right into prepared German positions. Strategic offensive+high strategic mobility = Tactical defensive = Victory. Arracourt was the exact same thing, Americans reached same conclusions post-war.

    T-34 was actually supposed to be a pre-production/early version to learn the lessons and educate workshops. According to original planning, it was supposed to be replaced by T-34M starting with July 1941, and completely gone from production by November 1941. The L-11 armament you quote had no problems with early German AFVs – they were that thin-skinned.

    Yak-3 was introduced in 1944. Yak-1 was not even the standard fighter in 1941, let alone there being enough frontline pilots traind to use them – most were accustomed to I-153 biplane and I-16 monoplane.

    The Il-2 also entered service that year but Great Patriotic War mythology aside it was a bad aircraft and should not have entered service.

    Better CS than Ju-87. All CS aircraft are hopeless in conditions of hostile air superiority – Stuka suffered horribly both in 1940 over Low Countries and France, and in Channel and over Britain.

    One of the reasons the T-34s encountered in 1941 were not a threat (aside from bad training, bad manufacturing quality, and bad deployment) was that Kulik deliberately sabotaged their anti-tank armament by supply an inferior gun and reducing the allocation of shells to the tanks.

    Oh, but it was a threat. And a hell of a threat. You see, by far the most numerous AT weapons in the invading army were 3.7 cm PaK and KwK. They were useless against T-34 from all angles and at all combat ranges. The 5cm L/42 of tanks was inadequate as well, while L/60 needed either APCR or lucky side shot.
    More T-34 and KV-1 were destroyed by their own crews and abandoned than were lost in direct combat in 1941 – this being the key of the advantage the side which is on the strategic offensive enjoys – it gets the spoils of battlefield. This will become obvious in 1943, 1944 when German Heavy tank battalions suffer 30-40 tank losses in a single day – their repair shops got overran – and Germans didn’t count a tank as a loss until it disintegrated or was captured by enemy.
    So a horse-drawn, dominantly foot infantry army with puny 3000-something Panzers, PzJg, StPz and StuG, with light Panzer divisions with a single tank battalion (your vaunted doubling of number of Panzer divisions in 1940-1941 was achieved by halving the tank component per Pz. division) drastically outperformed the Big Cat, Wunderwaffe army of 1943-1945.

  108. “A society that is welcoming to Muslims, is also welcoming to Jews” – he’s clearly arguing from perceived self-interest

    Jews can be a bit like Alawites in Syria. Assad government always talks about religious tolerance, secular state and multiculturalism of Syria.

    This is less utopian, than self-interest. (Only in secular, multinational, multireligious Syria, can Alawites with 10% of the population, rule over Sunnis with 80%). With Jews, there can be this cynicism as well.

    By far the funniest example of “cynical anti-racist” is Viatcheslav Kantor. He is an ordinary corrupt oligarch, who wants to secure his money by becoming internationally indispensable (like how Abramovich did with football). So renamed himself “Moshe” and suddenly discovered international role as a noble Jew and, anti-racist campaigner.

    However, I don’t think most Jewish liberals in rich countries like America, are cynical in this. They are mainly quite utopian people, who had bourgeois families, studied in private schools, and very comfortable lives, where they never saw any wars or violence. All this creates soft, utopian people.

    Someone above says why they angry that Netanyahu is friends with Orban. The reason is because they are utopian and self-angelizing their image. Therefore if Israel is associated with Orban and Jews =Israel, their self-image is destroyed. (I understand why Orban has a bad image with American anti-racists, but why multinationalist Putin has is a mystery).

  109. reiner Tor says

    Thanks for the recommendations!

  110. Serbs somehow manage to be universally hated and demonised by Diaspora Jews, while having close and friendly relations with Israelites.

    In 1990s, Diaspora Jew dominated media and lobbysts somehow managed to present Serbs as Holocaust perpetrators, Nazis and fascists to general public in USA. This is even more impressive when one is aware of the fact that Serbs fought under Yugocommunist ideology and red star while Croats fought under Ustashe insignia, Ustashe banner, adopted Ustashe currency and Ustashe military units and ranks; Bosniaks happily embraced SS Handschar and Kama, Islamic declaration and Mujahedeen. Even today, when census data is freely available and undisputed, the propagandistic notion of Serb “genociders” and “ethnic cleansers” spread by “Free World” “Liberal Media” persists – 1+ million Serbs were cleansed from their homes from 1991 to 1999.

    At the same time, Israel sent military aid, equipment and intel (Jihadis, Mujahedeen, weapon shipments) to Serbs. The knowledgeable Israelis know that Judah Alkalai was inspired by Serb nationalist resurgence of 19th century, the same phenomena which influenced both the rabbi mentor the secular father of Herzl. Kingdom of Serbia was among the first nations to elevate Jews to equal rights, in addition to becoming the the first nation to support Balfour Declaration in 1917,

  111. (I understand why Orban has a bad image with American anti-racists, but why multinationalist Putin has is a mystery).

    For the same reason they memed a Montenegrin atheist Yugocommunist and a former US banker as a Serb Ultranationalist Clerofascist, while presenting Islamists, Croat Ultranationalists and Albanian terrorists as anti-fascists, liberals, freedom-fighters and democrats.

    Ideology serves as a cover for geopolitical interests and “Realpolitik”. The dogs barking about racism, fascism, dictators Putin, Assad, Maduro are useful idiots.
    You can’t mobilise your nation for war by saying you want the resources, global power, installation of a puppet government – but start speaking about villains murdering babies in incubators, raping 300 000 women, killing 200 000 people in a year (US claim from 1993 on Serbs in Bosnia), gassing – barrel bombing clowns and hospitals and suddenly – the imbeciles start clamouring for intervention.

  112. Anonymous says

    There may be some element of that (and she does invoke it later in the article), but Weiss specifically names Bolsonaro in the same breath as Orban; Brazil had 0 to do with the Holocaust, has historically been friendly to Jews, and on top of that Bolsonaro is a man with avowed pro-Zionist sympathies! And Weiss hates Trump (as do almost all Jewish neocons), and he is probably the most pro-Jewish pro-Israel the US has ever had.

    The Holocaust is a useful rhetorical tool because it is an issue on which Jews occupy an unassailable moral high ground, but it’s not something the average Jew/Israeli really cares about as it affects day to day life (Israelis have a warmer regard for Germany than vice versa in every poll I have seen). Orban and the Poles are not demonized because of the Holocaust, they are demonized because they refuse to give their full assent to American-style neoliberalism.

  113. Thorfinnsson says

    Those “total numbers” are bogus when one looks at the breakdown by type, vintage and condition in June 1941.

    Stated in my post:

    A lot of very advanced Soviet weapons did appear in 1940-1941 (not just the T-34 but also the ZiS-2 57mm anti-tank gun, the M1939 85mm flak cannon, the A-19 122mm field gun, the Yak-3, etc.), but fortunately relatively little of it was in service in 1941.

    ZiS-2 – discontinued because German tanks similarly powerful to KV-3, KV-4 didn’t materialise – instead, thousands of Pz. II, Pz. 35, Pz. 38, Pz. III and Pz. IV with 30 mm frontal armour invaded.
    ZiS-2 had very high MV, high barrel wear, and would go right through them.
    T-34-57 Tank Destroyers were discontinued for the same reason.

    True, but it was still a technically superb weapon and showed the high skill that Soviet weapons designers had achieved.

    The ZiS-2 also reentered service in 1943.

    Yak-3 was introduced in 1944. Yak-1 was not even the standard fighter in 1941, let alone there being enough frontline pilots traind to use them – most were accustomed to I-153 biplane and I-16 monoplane.

    First flight was however in 1941. I brought it up as an example of Soviet engineering prowess. The Yak-3 was one of the best designs of the entire war.

    Other modern fighters were in service (or entering) in 1941 such as the Yak-1, MiG-3, LaGG 3, etc.

    And yes, most types in service in 1941 were obsolete (in harmony with my previous point that little of the modern weaponry was in service at this time).

    Better CS than Ju-87. All CS aircraft are hopeless in conditions of hostile air superiority – Stuka suffered horribly both in 1940 over Low Countries and France, and in Channel and over Britain.

    Don’t agree other than the elementary point of hostile air superiority. The Ju-87 was one of the very few aircraft of the war capable of true dive bombing, which allowed for pinpoint targeting. Rocket attacks by comparison had quite poor accuracy (as did the Il-2’s signature anti-tank bomblets)..

    Large caliber airborne cannons had a lot of potential, but no belligerent in the war fielded a satisfactory platform. The Americans designed the excellent Beechcraft XA-38 Grizzly, but it was not introduced into service.

    Oh, but it was a threat. And a hell of a threat. You see, by far the most numerous AT weapons in the invading army were 3.7 cm PaK and KwK. They were useless against T-34 from all angles and at all combat ranges. The 5cm L/42 of tanks was inadequate as well, while L/60 needed either APCR or lucky side shot.

    Of course, as evidenced by the fact that the Germans ordered the development of new tank and anti-tank weapons in response. The T-34 was one of the most influential tanks of all time.

    So a horse-drawn, dominantly foot infantry army with puny 3000-something Panzers, PzJg, StPz and StuG, with light Panzer divisions with a single tank battalion (your vaunted doubling of number of Panzer divisions in 1940-1941 was achieved by halving the tank component per Pz. division) drastically outperformed the Big Cat, Wunderwaffe army of 1943-1945.

    And this ought to be the last word against military tech fanboys.

    Also, while the tank component of each Panzer division declined, the medium tank component did not. Recall that during Fall Gelb the most numerous German tank was the PzKw II.

  114. German_reader says

    The Holocaust is a useful rhetorical tool because it is an issue on which Jews occupy an unassailable moral high ground, but it’s not something the average Jew/Israeli really cares about as it affects day to day life

    I don’t think that’s true, it’s clearly a central element of the identity of many Jews (perhaps the central element for many of the more secular ones), it’s not just pretended. And imo it couldn’t be otherwise.

    Israelis have a warmer regard for Germany than vice versa in every poll I have seen

    They also reject any contact with a party like AfD because of its alleged “Nazi origins” (a party that was founded in 2013, when the youngest of Hitler’s voters would have been 100); head of the Jewish World Congress Ronald Lauder has even called for the AfD to be banned. It’s clear that any form of even moderate German nationalism is seen as unacceptable.

    Orban and the Poles are not demonized because of the Holocaust

    The things many Jews say about Poland are far too visceral to be merely the result of political calculation.

  115. Other modern fighters were in service (or entering) in 1941 such as the Yak-1, MiG-3, LaGG 3

    Of these, only Yak-1 stood any modicum of chance against Bf-109F. MiG-3 and LaGG-3 were turkeys.
    It was not until Yak-3/9 and La-5/7 that Soviets matched contemporary Bf-109 and FW-190 models.
    P-39/63 was not Soviet, of course, but it was another very successful Soviet-employed fighter.

    The Yak-3 was one of the best designs of the entire war.

    In its niche role and altitude band, yes.

    However, if I had to choose which WW2 fighter I would fly to battle, I would narrow it down to P-47 or P-38. P-51 Mustang and its trumpeted superiority are part of Bomber Mafia narrative retouching.

    Don’t agree other than the elementary point of hostile air superiority. The Ju-87 was one of the very few aircraft of the war capable of true dive bombing, which allowed for pinpoint targeting.

    Ju-87, Douglas SBD Dauntless, Aichi D3A were dive bombers and employed successfuly. The key to their success was the air superiority they enjoyed. Once it was gone – Vals went down by the dozens with little to show for.

    Stuka was until G model not a good anti-armour, or CS plane due to light armament and lack of armour protection – it would get to the scene, drop its load and be gone. German analogue to Il-2 would probably be Hs-123.

    Rocket attacks by comparison had quite poor accuracy (as did the Il-2’s signature anti-tank bomblets)..

    Yes, achieving a direct-hit with fin-“stabilized” rockets – needed to destroy an AFV – 2-3% hit rates by post-battle evaluation crews. Soviet answer was practical – you drop dozens of bomblets across the general target area – just one hitting was often enough to disable the AFV.

    Large caliber airborne cannons had a lot of potential, but no belligerent in the war fielded a satisfactory platform. The Americans designed the excellent Beechcraft XA-38 Grizzly, but it was not introduced into service.

    Motorkanon solution of Germans, Soviets and P-39/63 was deadly – in my opinion, the German 30 mm already qualifies for large-caliber, and arguably, Soviet 23 mm does as well. In addition, Germans mounted 50 and 75 mm pneumatically and hydraulically operated guns to Hs-123 (semi-automatic, though), while I believe they fitted 50 mm to Me-410 in the Zerstoerer role.
    US 75 mm hand-operated in B-24 and B-25 in the Pacific was improvisation.

    Also, while the tank component of each Panzer division declined, the medium tank component did not. Recall that during Fall Gelb the most numerous German tank was the PzKw II.

    https://i.imgur.com/GG3DzFW.png

    However, there were more Pz.38(t) in total because Slovakia used them as LT-38 in Barbarossa, and 1st Hungarian Tank Division was equipped with them as well – so the single most numerous Axis tank in Barbarossa was – Czech TNHP/Pz.38(t).

  116. Well that’s to be expected, Yang has said he is friends with Eric Turkheimer, one of the leading obscurantists, who has said that knowing about racial differences in intelligence would be akin to knowing how to make atomic bomb. The sort of “science” one would scrape off one’s boot if one were so unfortunate as to step in it

  117. In my opinion, at least that is clever – to reject contact with AfD. (Unless AfD seem to be winning an election).

    Putin has been in this stupid decision to have contact with opposition political parties, with government contact with both Marine Le Pen and AfD .

    Le Pen at least, will never be President, so there is no benefit for Russia. The cost of having this contact, was to make Russia and Putin more unpopular with the rulers and journalists of France.

    Merkel is subsidizing construction of Israeli submarines. So if Israeli leadership are not idiots, they should publicly support Merkel 100%, since she is paying for part of their nuclear deterrent.

    Because Israeli leadership* is believing similar things about Muslims, as AfD (you can see Yair Netanyahu’s Twitter to imagine what they say in the Netanyahu house) – it probably itself means Israel should even try to avoid association with opposition like AfD or Le Pen even more


    * Israeli television program, seems more or less the same as Fox News on this topic

  118. for-the-record says
  119. for-the-record says

    they are suing the Hungarian State Railways for its role in the holocaust. I mean, it’s not like the state railways company was in any position to make decisions or anything

    Well, French and Dutch national railways accepted to pay reparations (in the case of the SNCF, to Holocaust survivors in the US), and they were defeated countries not allies of Germany. So my guess is that Hungary is going to have to go a very long way to ingratiate itself with the US/Israel to avoid a massive settlement.

  120. German_reader says

    It’s hard to have much respect for a society that produces pictures like that.

  121. German_reader says

    It’s also funny though how that pm shows so much of her hair, defeating the entire purpose of an Islamic headscarf.

  122. Thorfinnsson says

    Of these, only Yak-1 stood any modicum of chance against Bf-109F. MiG-3 and LaGG-3 were turkeys.
    It was not until Yak-3/9 and La-5/7 that Soviets matched contemporary Bf-109 and FW-190 models.
    P-39/63 was not Soviet, of course, but it was another very successful Soviet-employed fighter.

    All true, though in my view the largest problem with the VVS relative to the Luftwaffe was pilot training.

    In reading postwar memoirs of Luftwaffe pilots the assessments of the VVS are generally quite poor compared to the RAF and USAAF with certain exceptions.

    This isn’t down to Russophobia either as assessments of the Red Army are generally positive (Tippelskirch and the Soviet zergling myth aside).

    In its niche role and altitude band, yes.

    However, if I had to choose which WW2 fighter I would fly to battle, I would narrow it down to P-47 or P-38. P-51 Mustang and its trumpeted superiority are part of Bomber Mafia narrative retouching.

    P-38 and P-47 were limited to Mach 0.68 and Mach 0.71 respectively in maneuvering. P-51 Mustang was Mach 0.78. Bf 109 and Fw 190 were 0.75.

    RAF test pilot Eric Brown on the the matter:

    We had found out that the Bf 109 and the FW 190 could fight up to a Mach of 0.75, three-quarters the speed of sound. We checked the Lightning and it couldn’t fly in combat faster than 0.68. So it was useless. We told Doolittle that all it was good for was photo-reconnaissance and had to be withdrawn from escort duties. And the funny thing is that the Americans had great difficulty understanding this because the Lightning had the two top aces in the Far East.

    It should be added that as a twin-engine aircraft the P-38 was inherently less maneuverable than single-engine fighters. This was irrelevant when it first appeared as it was the fastest airplane in the world, but as the war went on its speed was surpassed by single-engine fighters. Fortunately that was generally not the case in the Pacific.

    The P-47 was simply too heavy. This did at least make it very rugged and a fast diver. Other than the lack of cannons it was well suited for the fighter-bomber role.

    Other than the unloved (by the Americans) P-39/63 and P-38 all American fighters were also inadequately armed.

    Which fighter you wish to take into battle of course depends on the battle. P-51D superiority was real for the 8th Air Force’s mission. The Spitfire Mk XIV was arguably better than the P-51D, but it was short ranged and thus useless.

    If the P-51D had been tasked with the same mission as the Luftwaffe’s fighters, it would’ve fared poorly owing to its weak armament. Six .50cal BMGs were fine against fighters, but not four-engine bombers.

    Ju-87, Douglas SBD Dauntless, Aichi D3A were dive bombers and employed successfuly. The key to their success was the air superiority they enjoyed. Once it was gone – Vals went down by the dozens with little to show for.

    Stuka was until G model not a good anti-armour, or CS plane due to light armament and lack of armour protection – it would get to the scene, drop its load and be gone. German analogue to Il-2 would probably be Hs-123.

    Types other than the Ju-87 weren’t capable of vertical dive bombing, nor did they have the Ju-87’s automatic dive recovery capabilities. They also weren’t fielded in land warfare, being naval bombers.

    The ideal dive bomber for CS would’ve been something like the Boeing XF8B.

    Hs-129 was useful as it carried a heavy cannon armament less awkwardly than the Ju-87G and also used engines not in demand elsewhere. That said, hardly an ideal type given its low performance. I wonder if the Me-410 would’ve been good in this role.

    Yes, achieving a direct-hit with fin-“stabilized” rockets – needed to destroy an AFV – 2-3% hit rates by post-battle evaluation crews. Soviet answer was practical – you drop dozens of bomblets across the general target area – just one hitting was often enough to disable the AFV.

    Hit rates from the bomblets was also abysmal.

    Motorkanon solution of Germans, Soviets and P-39/63 was deadly – in my opinion, the German 30 mm already qualifies for large-caliber, and arguably, Soviet 23 mm does as well. In addition, Germans mounted 50 and 75 mm pneumatically and hydraulically operated guns to Hs-123 (semi-automatic, though), while I believe they fitted 50 mm to Me-410 in the Zerstoerer role.
    US 75 mm hand-operated in B-24 and B-25 in the Pacific was improvisation.

    Engine-mounted cannon solution was excellent, though it took time to mature. 30mm is I suppose relatively large caliber, but German aircraft with MK 108 cannons were used as fighters and bomber destroyers rather than in the close support role since it was a low velocity gun.

    There was a high velocity 30mm cannon (MK 103), but the Germans were unable to get it to work in the motorkanone role as it was apparently too large for the DB605 engine. The Soviet attempt engine mount a 45mm cannon also failed.

    50mm was indeed fitted to the Me-410 and also to the Me-262. I noted previously that the Me-410 might’ve done some good in the anti-armor role.

    The Italians, British, and Japanese also all experimented with large caliber cannons in the anti-shipping role.

    However, there were more Pz.38(t) in total because Slovakia used them as LT-38 in Barbarossa, and 1st Hungarian Tank Division was equipped with them as well – so the single most numerous Axis tank in Barbarossa was – Czech TNHP/Pz.38(t).

    Pz.38(t) was superior to PzKw II, though of course certainly not a medium tank.

  123. She was originally a Mormon, but then she left church because Mormons do not support gay rights.

    What I don’t understand about her, is how these relatively young people, who have never had profession or job, and do not even seem to have family connections, become the leaders of their country.

    Sebastian Kurz of Austria was the first one I saw. He has never had a job and has not completed even a university degree. Yet, he became Foreign Minister at age 27, and Chancellor of Austria at age 32.

    He is one of the least qualified people in Austria, and yet he is their leader?

    And this New Zealand woman, is very similar – although she is at least slightly more qualified (unlike Kurz, she was at least able to finish university degree in communications and politics).

    But she also seems not to have any job or profession in her life, but became leader of the country at age 36 years?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinda_Ardern

  124. German_reader says

    although she is at least slightly more qualified (she has a university degree in communications and politics).

    That isn’t a qualification, in fact having studied something like “communication studies” or “political science” should count as a big fat minus imo.
    It’s not unusual though, many Western politicians today have been professional politicans for their entire lives, it’s a very important reason for the degeneration of our societies that our “elites” consist of useless parasites who would be nothing without their party machines and their patronage networks.
    Also very disturbing that this woman has a Mormon background, something needs to be done to check the spread of that cult.

  125. White Shariah in action.

  126. German_reader says

    More like virtue-signalling gynocracy.

  127. massacring 100,000 Polish civilians was because of Ukranian nationalist fantasism and bloodlust

    It was an evil crime but its reason was no worse than that of Hiroshima. Poland occupied those lands planned to get them back after the war. It also planned to ethnically cleanse them, of Ukrainians (at least,m the local Polish organization wanted this done). UPA took the initiative and ethnically cleansed them first, while they had the chance. They did not have bombers and atom weapons, they had peasants with crude weapons. But they were fighting for their lands, on their native soil, not bombing people thousands of miles away from their native lands. I do not justify what they did, but it wasn’t any worse than Anglo-American deliberate targeting and bombing of German or Japanese civilians.

  128. Reminds me: the Swedish Migration Board has, in theory, opened up Sweden to all Chinese Uyghurs. There are about 11 million.

  129. “I do not justify what they did” – Yes, you do.

  130. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    McPherson is good, but I prefer good old Bruce Catton for a Northern perspective.

  131. I do not justify what they did, but it wasn’t any worse than Anglo-American deliberate targeting and bombing of German or Japanese civilians.

    That’s ridiculous. The aim of dropping the atomic bombs was to force the Japanese to surrender, avoiding hundreds of thousands of American soldiers dying in an invasion (or possibly even more Japanese civilians in a blockade), in a war started by Japanese aggression.
    Torturing and murdering tens of thousands of civilians who posed no military threat as part of a campaign to ethnically cleanse people who had been living there for hundreds of years is not the same.
    The reasons are not at all the same.

    Honestly, when the war in Ukraine started I was quite pro-Ukrainian but now I have grown to understand completely why people hate you (Ukrainian nationalists).

  132. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    I hesitate to answer that without thinking about it in categorical terms

    I will say for now that the following come to mind as very good books

    For a one volume political summary, that focuses on 1848-1861, I highly recommend ‘The Impending Crisis’ by historian by David Potter.

    For a longer summary, I quite like William Freehling’s two-volume book ‘The Road to Disunion.’ Freehling focuses on the development of secessionist politics in the South, with enough background info on the North to know what was going on there. He goes into extensive detail and depth on social aspects. You will learn about the many differences between the respective Southern states. Freehling is also rather a fun writer; Potter has lots of good anecdotes, and knows how to write a narrative with pace.

    IIRC, Freehling’s main argument, with which I mostly agreed, is that as white men began to become more egalitarian (towards themselves, that is, not towards other races/cultures – Jackson is a good example), the domestic elitism, so to speak, of slavery inevitably clashed with the larger political culture, including, to a surprisingly large degree, within the South itself.

    David Detzer wrote a fine summary of the actual outbreak of the war – the Sumter crisis. It is called ‘Allegiance.’

    For a summary of the war itself, ‘Battle Cry of Freedom’ is, again, pretty good. I have to admit, though, I’ve mostly read specific topics from the war, and very few summary-type books.

    Shelby Foote and Bruce Catton, again, were the classic popular Civil War writers of the mid 20th century. Being a Northerner (though I have rebels in the family tree), Catton’s Michigan style is appealing to me more so than Foote. Foote was arguably a better writer, though.

    There are copious memoirs from the war. Both armies were, in fact, highly literate. And the guys who could write were much better writers than today’s average people.

    Whatever you do, don’t read Thomas DiLorenzo or Garry Wills. DiLorenzo is a pro-Confederate partisan, while Wills is the kind of guy who tries to interpret Lincoln as belonging to a kind of multicultural liberal tradition. They’re both hacks, though DiLorenzo probably commits more sins offensive to the discipline of history.

  133. John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan says

    Two things

    First of all, several Civil War generals were better than Jackson. Especially Bedford Forrest.

    as for Cromwell and atrocities, whatever you say, man

  134. This is a very Diaspora Nationalist post.

  135. UPA took the initiative and ethnically cleansed them first, while they had the chance.

    There are a great many instances of ethnic cleansing, and even genocide, that can be “justified” using the same reasoning.

  136. I am not aware that Cromwell committed any atrocities, the only three I am aware of are the massacre of Bolton residents by Royalists, and the massacre at the siege of Basing House where Cromwell was the commander and some womenfolk camp followers who were killed at some battle.

    Ummmmmmmm…….. Does the name Drogheda ring a bell?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Massacre_at_Drogheda.jpeg

  137. bizarre Jewish campaign against Poland

    Big money. Jewish organizations and Israel are hoping to squeeze out of Poland $300 billions for the so called heirless property. The heirless property disposition raises serious legal issues. Who should get it and why Jews? So the argument is being made along the line of Holocaust uniqueness so the traditional and accepted legal norms could be circumvented.

    http://www.codozasady.pl/en/the-issue-of-jewish-heirless-property-demands-extraordinary-measures/

    Applying the general principle of inheritance law that heirless property is acquired by the state to questions of Jewish heirless property in Poland is ill-considered and does not take into account the tragic realities involved.

    Furthermore, moral considerations strongly indicate that alternative solutions to the issue must be found.

    For this reason the cases of some Poles participation in killing Jews are being blown out of proportions is to create a moral foundation for the ethical norm that the murderers may not draw material benefits from the death of their victims.

    Poland is first in line. Other countries in Eastern Europe like Ukraine and Belarus will come next. But they unlike Poland are not ‘ripe’ yet for the racket. Ukraine is too poor and politically precarious, so in the mean time the Banderites, the true Jew killers of Eastern Europe, are being nourished and encouraged to taint Ukraine forever with Nazism and make Ukraine easy picking in the future. Belarus is under Putin’s protective umbrella. Jewish claims against Belarus would push it closer to Russia. Perhaps Putin could ask his buddy Netanyahu to make such claims. At some point we will see Slovakia being hit really hard because Slovakia was the most enthusiastic country in Europe with respect to Nazi Jewish policies.

    Poland was drawn (willingly) into the American sphere of influence with no alternatives left. To make it worse Poland was put (put itself) on the course of conflict with Germany and EU. The recent Polish claims about restitutions from Germany are part of it. It is really just a psy-op directed at Polish public opinion to bring them down to the level of the Jewish vindictive ethics to make them more appreciative of Jewish claims leaving a false promise that once Germany pays (which will not happen) paying the Jews will be easier. Compare that with the letter of reconciliation “We forgive and ask for forgiveness” of 1965 by Polish Bishops to their German counterparts which represents the true spirit of Polish Catholicism.

    Some Poles also entertain illusory rationalization that the Jewish claims will be offset by purchases of American (and Israeli) armaments which they want to buy anyway. Poles go through the standard steps of denial. And they are afraid to talk about it because of fear of being accused of antisemitism.

    One may wonder to what extent the prying off V4 countries from EU and creating the illusory vision of the Intermarium and the vilification of Russia are part of the long term strategy to settle the Holocaust financial claims. When you think about it, whatever Israel and the Jewry are doing to these countries is good for Russia in the long term.

  138. Noticeably anti-Serb as well.

    Shifting gears, for you auto buffs:

    https://www.twelfthroundauto.com/best-motor-oil/

    https://www.youtube.com/user/scottykilmer

    Scotty is hilarious.

  139. Precisely because she is nothing. ZOG props her up and thus owns her completely, no need for child porn leverage even.

  140. Honestly, when the war in Ukraine started I was quite pro-Ukrainian but now I have grown to understand completely why people hate you (Ukrainian nationalists).

    Poland is taking Ukrainian gastarbeiters and immigrants by millions w/o any gestures of contrition and atonements from Ukrainians for the Volhynia genocide. It is really hard to understand it.

  141. Beatings of said gastarbeiters are quite widespread though. Maybe it counts as atonement.

  142. Gammas. LOL.

  143. “Beatings of said gastarbeiters “ – not true.

  144. Hyperborean says

    Jews can be a bit like Alawites in Syria. Assad government always talks about religious tolerance, secular state and multiculturalism of Syria.

    This is less utopian, than self-interest. (Only in secular, multinational, multireligious Syria, can Alawites with 10% of the population, rule over Sunnis with 80%). With Jews, there can be this cynicism as well.

    The Syrian government is a supporter of secularism and protector of religious minorities, due to self-interest, but they also clearly define Syria as an Arab state.

    Aside from the fact that it is in the formal name of the country (Syrian Arab Republic), before the civil war the government used to stamp out Kurdish identity, like all the neighbouring states, due to fear of separatism and a desire to Arabise the country.

    However, I don’t think most Jewish liberals in rich countries like America, are cynical in this. They are mainly quite utopian people, who had bourgeois families, studied in private schools, and very comfortable lives, where they never saw any wars or violence. All this creates soft, utopian people.

    People who are uncomfortable with honestly thinking in terms of pure utilitarian morality (actions decided on whether this benefits me) can also fool themselves into believing something noble that just happens to support their interests.

    (I understand why Orban has a bad image with American anti-racists, but why multinationalist Putin has is a mystery).

    Aside from everything else, they really, really, hate hate hate Putin for things like Pussy Riot and the “law against proselytising homosexual propaganda” to minors.

  145. I’m mystified by the recent spate of apologias for Cromwell. It must have something to do with “Wolf Hall”, but I suspect there must also be some political undercurrent. I’m not familiar with the book or TV show, but perhaps the hint would be there.

  146. Hyperborean says

    I don’t think that’s true, it’s clearly a central element of the identity of many Jews (perhaps the central element for many of the more secular ones), it’s not just pretended. And imo it couldn’t be otherwise.

    For American Jews at least, the Shoah is the core of their identity. How would it change if we separated it into religious and non-religious Jews? I have a suspicion that secular Jews would care a lot more about it, simply because they have nothing else.

    https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2013/10/jew-overview-9.png

  147. It is because they are projecting their nationalist inclinations wrt their own countries onto Israel.

    From the point of view of an uninformed westerner (especially in the Anglosphere), Israeli Jews are a group of white, pseudo-Christian people fighting a bunch of brown Muslims. Throughout the west, it is more-or-less socially unacceptable (for white people) to complain about non-white immigration, or to express any sentiment that could possibly be construed as racism; so, those who hold those sentiments but can’t express them properly project them onto Israel, since supporting Israel is perfectly acceptable. In doing so, they use Israel, which they imagine to be a semi-western, semi-Christian country, as a proxy for their own country. This is why they get as emotional as they do; they are (probably subconsciously) mentally substituting Israel and Israelis for their own countries and their own people.

    It’s pretty retarded.

  148. Thorfinnsson says

    This is just an affiliate marketing site. It’s not like he’s actually testing or even reviewing the motor oil.

    I’ve always used Mobil One.

  149. Regarding P-38 and P-47, you fell for a post-war propaganda effort.
    P-38 having counter-turning propellers meant it could outturn every single-engine fighter in the right turn.
    In addition, using differential throttle settings, P-38 flown by expert pilots (instructed by travelling advisers like Lindbergh) could outmaneuver even Japanese nimble fighters, the most maneuverable of the fighters employed in WW2 in “common knowledge”.
    No, the Americans knew what they were doing in Pacific – the British pilot was given crappy export P-38 without turbosuperchargers, and suffers from common British illness of Spitfiremania.

    And be certain that no fighter “maneuvered” at 0.75 Mach. This claim is very dubious by itself for P-47 – it was precisely P-47M which could threaten Me-262 via boom-and-zoom and shallow dive speed accumilation.

    Also, P-47 operating as a fighter-bomber was an atrocity. It was designed as a high-altitude, long-range interceptor and escort fighter maximizing energy fighting. The complex and expensive turbosupercharger it carried (engineering achievement and masterpiece) that enabled it to outperform supercharged competition was literally deadweight at low altitudes.

    Its fancy hydraulic control surfaces optimized for high-altitude, high-speed maneuvering was ill-suited for ground-level combat.

    The thing was very expensive (almost twice the price of Mustang), armoured, resistant to damage (air cooled radials vs. liquid cooled inlines) and heavily armed.

    Have a look yourself: https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/38801.html

    Comments are goldmine as well.

    https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/54434.html

    Also, Yugoslavia had post-WW2 late Spitfires, Yaks and P-47. P-47 winner in 9/10 situations. It could outclimb opposition post 6000 m altitude, accumulate energy due to higher ceiling and better high-altitude performance, build up speed via shallow dive and then prey upon hapless opposition in mock fights.

  150. Another German Reader says

    @ Anatoly:

    If the rumours are true, then AMD will annouce their new mainstream/mid-end GPU “Navi” & the new Ryzen 3000 series on the May 1st. Depending on how agressive AMD goes with the price, it will force Intel’s & Nvidia’s hand. Retailers might start sell-off campaigns.

    When you can wait until then, you might get your hand on some better performance/price-matrix.

  151. German_reader says

    It must have something to do with “Wolf Hall”

    That show is about Thomas Cromwell, not Oliver.

  152. Aside from everything else, they really, really, hate hate hate Putin for things like Pussy Riot and the “law against proselytising homosexual propaganda” to minors.

    1. Pussy Riot – was a stupid repression. But it is not different than what Theresa May, or New Zealand, etc, are doing to politically incorrect people. If anything, Western European governments are all aligned with the Russian government in these topics.

    And Russian government is significantly less repressive, than what e.g. Spain does to Catalan politicians and dissenters. Spain’s recent behaviour, is really repressive and anti-democratic, in a way Putin has not yet reached fortunately.

    As for the “hate crime” prosecutions which are in countries like UK. This is very similar to Putin’s policies, but in some dimensions it could possibly be more extreme in Western Europe than in Russia.

    In other words, these stupid cases and political prosecutions of people, there is not provided any special distinction between the Russian government and Western European governments. Both are equally bad in these topics.

    The distinction is more between restricted free-speech of most of Europe (including many countries in Western Europe) and the free-speech absolutism of America.

    1. “Law against proselytising homosexual propaganda” – is far less extreme, than the policy of many countries, which Western liberals do not concern with – whether we are talking about the whole of the Muslim world, or countries like India, China, etc, which are probably the same in this topic as Russia, and countries like Cuba, Bolivia and Venezuela, which will be much more repressive.

    Also, Putin’s views on these topics are just aligning with typical opinion in the country, so there he is just being a representative politician in this area, not pushing any particular personal views.

    Sexual minorities, of course, live better in the Russian Federation (in terms of sexual minority rights), than in the USSR.

    During the Cold War, I’m not aware that America used the politics of sexual minorities to criticize the USSR, because the policies of the two countries were the same.

    Western media has of course exaggerated the differences even today, in the typical histrionic way of journalists.

  153. Israel’s actual reality is painful, frustrating tolerance and liberalism anyway, where people who hate each other are forced to live together. And it’s one of the most multicultural and multi-religious countries, which is exactly what creates nationalist tensions and violence there. It’s a multiethnic nightmare – opposite of what voters actually want (homogeneous, conflictless, European countries, like Poland or Hungary).

    To go back to Israel and AfD.

    Israel’s main problem in external policy, is that it has very bad relations with most Muslim countries, and moderately bad one with liberal countries.

    Israel’s diplomatic priority should be to improve its relationship with Muslim – within limitations of its being in conflict with Muslims.

    That’s one of the most important things for Israel’s survival – to improve its relations with Muslim countries.

    So Israel should definitely not try to create relationships with anti-Muslim European political parties, unless those parties are going to be influential in the government of their countries, preferably powerful countries.

    As long as anti-Muslim parties are in the opposition, Israel will be idiots to be associated with them.

    • As a similar lesson – Russia should not associate with opposition political parties in Europe, anti-Muslim or pro-Muslim, unless they will actually win an election and become powerful. When Russian government officials were associating with political losers like Marine Le Pen, the effect was both bad for Marine Le Pen, and bad for Russian external policy (reducing its influence) in France.

  154. Degrees in politics and communication, may not be intellectually difficult to attain – but she at least completed the course, unlike Sebastian Kurz.

    Both her Sebastian Kurz, have never had a job or profession though. But she has a university qualification, which can be a test of having normal IQ and literacy. She has something on her CV under “Education”.

    Her ascension to become the most powerful person in her country at 37 years old, is shocking. And even Sebastian Kurz becoming leader of Austria at 32 years is even more shocking.

    our societies that our “elites” consist of useless parasites who would be nothing without their party machines and their patronage networks.

    But neither her nor Kurz, are from any elites, which is how it becomes even more difficult to understand.

    They don’t study in prestigious schools, or have any important family. They never had jobs in their life. They have no academic or intellectual ability. They don’t have unusual personalities, or charisma, or original policies. And they reach the country’s highest position while they are 30s. (Kurz second highest position, while he was 20s). Lol wtf.

    Mormon background, something needs to be done to check the spread of that cult.

    Obviously, Mormon beliefs are idiotic even by religious standards. But their external behaviour can be desirable. Salt Lake City, for example, is described as one of the best cities to live in America.

  155. German_reader says

    So Israel should definitely not try to create relationships

    That’s not the point (I’d actually agree), the point is that Israeli representatives and spokesmen of Jewish organizations have gone out of their way to validate the view of AfD as an illegitimate party of Nazis that ought to be crushed.
    There was a bizarre incident last year when former Mossad agent Rafi Eitan (one of those who captured Eichmann) met with AfD members in Germany and had friendly words for them – he was strongly condemned by the Israeli ambassador for that and eventually retracted his statements. Admittedly that also shows that Jewish views on those issues aren’t monolithic, and to some extent I can even understand Jewish wariness about right-wing movements in Europe (there have been a few cases of explicit antisemites in AfD, though those have been isolated and AfD also has a few Jewish members). But still, on the whole the behaviour of official Jewry is really tiresome.

    That’s one of the most important things for Israel’s survival – to improve its relations with Muslim countries.

    It’s unfortunate that Israel has picked the very worst Islamic countries, Saudi-Arabia and other Gulf states, for that project, it definitely makes a mockery of all those “Israel is a bulwark against Islamism” claims (though the same is of course true on a much larger scale for the US, and also for the dubious ties of European countries to those regimes).

  156. Hyperborean says

    1. Pussy Riot – was a stupid repression. But it is not different than what Theresa May, or New Zealand, etc, are doing to politically incorrect people. If anything, Western European governments are all aligned with the Russian government in these topics.

    But there is a difference. Pussy Riot are good people politically speaking while the UK arrests hateful people, so from their perspective there is a fundamental difference.

    Also, Putin’s views on these topics are just aligning with typical opinion in the country, so there he is just being a representative politician in this area, not pushing any particular personal views.

    Which simply makes ordinary Russians complicit in Putin’s sins.

    countries like Cuba, Bolivia and Venezuela, which will be much more repressive.

    Cuba’s government is rather liberal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/cuba-removes-support-for-gay-marriage-in-new-constitution-after-protests

    >>>

    You are correct in pointing out the blindspots and hypocrisy, but it is not as if they feel obliged to be consistent.

    It is much easier simply to hate renegade white countries like Russia, Poland, Hungary, Italy or whichever European country is next to go rogue.

  157. Hyperborean says

    But neither her nor Kurz, are from any elites, which is how it becomes even more difficult to understand.

    They don’t study in prestigious schools, or have any important family. They never had jobs in their life. They have no academic or intellectual ability. They don’t have unusual personalities, or charisma, or original policies. And they reach the country’s highest position while they are 30s. (Kurz second highest position, while he was 20s). Lol wtf.

    It is not so surprising for party machines to function like this, the surprising thing to me is their age.

  158. I think a distinction should be made between Israelis and American Jewish Zionists; they share common goals and work together, but their values are often very different (Israelis more pragmatic, conservative and “race realist,” American Jews more liberal, dreamy and idealistic). Also the relationship is very asymmetric (Israel depends to a large degree on American goodwill and support but has essentially nothing to offer America in return). Reading about the Blue and White Coalition, it seems to me they are basically offering Bibi’s policy but with symbolic and verbal concessions to American Jewish sensibilities (e.g. not palling around with Bolsonaro and Orban). The example you cite with AfD may be a similar dynamic: many Israelis may see AfD as sympathetic, but to associate with a fringe far-right German party is bad optics and may cost you American support, and as Dmitry points out is worthless from a strategic point of view.

    The relationship between Israel and KSA is I think a good example of this dynamic: neither side can formally ally itself with the other, in fact they are still officially hostile (KSA bars not only Israeli passport holders but anybody with evidence of travel to Israel), but they still have similar goals and their respective leaders will work together behind the scenes when necessary.

    I genuinely have no idea what the Israeli position on right-wing parties in Europe is, or even if they have a unified position. On the one hand these parties often have vague pro-Israel sentiments which is certainly better than the overtly pro-BDS position of a lot of the European left, but there is obviously a lot of negative historical baggage as well (has Marine Le Pen really renounced her father?). Is opposition to Muslim immigration to Europe a good thing or a bad thing for Israel? What about opposition to the EU? Whatever position they strike is sure to be one of pure self interest, but the calculation seems ambiguous. I agree with Dmitry that their pose is probably to remain on good terms with whomever is currently in power, and that they will try to avoid alienating the Americans (Chuck Schumer et al)

    Tl; dr I think the Israelis themselves are mostly realpolitik, but their dependence on America forces them to pay lip service to American neoliberalism and utopianism

  159. I’d like to see the specifics behind that rating as well, which varies by different categories for best oil:

    • synthetic
    • conventional
    • 0-20
    • blend
    • high mileage (75, 000 and over) synthetic

    A more detailed venue:

    https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

    On the subject of engine oil for cars, I’m of the view that as long as you put in the recommended weight and change within a reasoned time, there will be no problems, whatever you use: Amazon, Walmart, Mobil, Royal Purple….. This view excludes driving a car with regular temperatures at single digits and less.

    If the manual calls for full synthetic, then by all means use it.

    More important is the quality of the oil filter. Offhand, the Mobil extended life and Fram full synthetic filters seem like the best options. Royal Purple oil filters are considered as good if not better. Its price is noticeably higher when compared to the aforementioned other two which sell at Walmart for around $10.00.

  160. Noteworthy the Israeli relationship with Russia versus the position taken by the likes of Engel and Schumer.

  161. Supporting the alt-right wing parties in Europe is what Israel wants to do. They can’t let the left-wing parties fall in love with Muslims in particular to the point of being against Israel. At the same time Israel will be supporting flooding the Europe with Muslims and the alt-right partie job is to do the fanning of Islamophobia. If there is not enough of it few terrorist attacks can always be arranged. Israel needs a repository of nationalist like Anders Breivik or Brenton Tarrant to prod them to action when some pro-Muslim and anti-Israel politicians have to be called to their senses. This in turn helps the left-wing parties to crack down on racism, anti-Semitism and freedom of speech. It is a win win tactics for Israel. Israel is playing a game of creating conflicts, keeping up the tensions, divide et impera and then offering apparent solutions.

  162. Noteworthy the Israeli relationship with Russia versus the position taken by the likes of Engel and Schumer.

    This is a part of bigger game plan. For Putin the only road to Washington goes through Jerusalem and vice versa for Trump.

  163. Perhaps they feel solidarity in their hatred of Russia, something that exists much more in the here-and-now, and this allows them to overcome historical enmities.

  164. Israel has its only ski resort there.

    Starting this year, there is now a direct flight between Tel Aviv and Sochi. The ski resorts there have been inundated with Israelis, to the extent that Hebrew will be, by far, the language you are most likely to hear after Russian. Sochi is, apparently, a superior substitute to the Alps; closer, cheaper, and Israelis don’t need a visa to visit Russia.

  165. Anonymous says

    Israelis don’t need a visa to visit Russia

    Really? That’s interesting. They need one to visit the US (although the reverse is not true).

  166. reiner Tor says

    Thanks for the recommendations!

  167. reiner Tor says

    Israelis (…) pay lip service to American neoliberalism and utopianism

    If it were only lip service, they wouldn’t be so active in denouncing parties like the AfD.

    has Marine Le Pen really renounced her father?

    Yes, she has even kicked him out of the party. What else do Israelis want?

    And it’s not like Le Pen was Hitler. He said some bad things about Jews.

  168. reiner Tor says

    It’s one thing to avoid association with AfD, it’s another to actively denounce it to the point of actively pressuring Jews who had slightly friendly contacts to it. Israelis do the latter.

  169. reiner Tor says

    I don’t think it’s possible to appease them to the point that they stop the lawsuit. After all, those participating in it probably don’t care enough for Israel to renounce their billion dollar claims. People are rarely fanatical enough about anything that they would be willing to renounce billion dollar claims for it. The lawsuit is just a fact of life like an earthquake.

    Another interesting angle is American judicial overreach. When Belgium started issuing arrest warrants against people like Ariel Sharon, it was ridiculous. But America actually has the strength to make its courts the arbiters of justice about events which happened three quarters of a century ago in countries which the judges never saw (nor do they know particularly much about it from secondary sources), under circumstances unimaginable to them (or American legislators or law enforcement agencies), etc.

    One would think it’s dangerous for Jews to push the holocaust reparations issue any further at this point, but they don’t seem to care. Maybe they think they can pull it off forever. Or at least for several decades into the future. The latter seems certainly likely.

  170. LondonBob says

    Obviously you aren’t aware of what happened when fortified position were stormed, see Badajoz. Any actual examples where Cromwell committed atrocities or is that it?

  171. LondonBob says

    Don’t Afd have relations with Pamela Geller and the dark zionist money coming from the US to ensure any nationalist movement doesn’t go the wrong way? Normally they obsess about Muslims but stay silent on immigration from Africa like Tommy Robinson.

  172. It’s not the same since Cromwell condoned massacres at Drogheda, Wellington did not at Badajoz.

  173. for-the-record says

    That show is about Thomas Cromwell, not Oliver.

    I am assuming that Songbird knew that, and was implying that the Cromwell “family” name had somehow been rehabilitated by the program.

  174. reiner Tor says

    It’s an autistic theory of mind.

    Projection. See:

    But people cannot actually believe or not believe in truth of something, on basis of “racial interest and longterm conspiracies”. They believe it because they believe it is the true description of reality.

    In reality, people usually find it easier to believe what is good for them or which is compatible with their other beliefs. In my experience Jews (and, to be honest, other highly committed nationalists – I have noticed similar things with Hungarian nationalists) often cannot imagine that what is good for them can be neutral or even negative for any universalistic metric.

    So Jews will not even notice that there is a difference between a Jew who explicitly argues that multiculturalism is good because it’s good for the Jews and a gentile white who argues that it’s good because it’s morally good. Interestingly, even you didn’t notice it. Contrary to your assertion, those Jews are rarely cynical, because of course they also use universalistic moral arguments. They don’t even notice that the two are not the same, or that at least in theory there could be a contradiction.

  175. for-the-record says

    Israel is playing a game of creating conflicts, keeping up the tensions, divide et impera and then offering apparent solutions.

    And all the while distracting world attention from what’s going on in the “Occupied Territories”.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/IsraeliSettlementGrowthLineGraph.png

  176. LondonBob says

    Hungary should start suing Israel for Communism.

  177. LondonBob says

    Well after the appalling massacres of English and Scottish settlers in the Irish uprising there was always likely to be a reaction, an element missing at Badajoz. Still no other examples? Cromwell actually enforced strict punishment for stealing when the New Model Army campaigned in Ireland.

  178. LondonBob says

    Related through Thomas Cromwell’s sister who was Oliver’s grandmother, or something along those lines. The maternal name was adopted as it was beneficial to be associated with Thomas.

  179. LondonBob says

    It was already rehabilitated a long time ago, the Cromwell statue was erected around 1900 outside Parliament.

  180. for-the-record says
  181. German_reader says

    Don’t Afd have relations with Pamela Geller

    No idea. My impression is there are several wings in AfD (also true for other matters). You’ve got people who are basically thinking along the same lines common here (e.g. Assad and Russia are good because they’re killing jihadis, Israel and the US are hypocrites who secretly support them).
    On the other hand, you’ve got people in AfD or AfD’s orbit who think it’s a good idea to criticise Merkel and other members of her government for not being deferential enough to Trump and the US or supposedly selling out Israel’s security to evil Iran.
    The basic problem imo is that even among “alternative” media outlets (which in fact are often critical or hostile to AfD, but are nonetheless read by many AfD voters, because there’s not much else) you’ve got a lot of pro-Zionist pieces which present a rather selective picture of the facts. One of those sites Tichy’s Einblick is basically running at least one such piece every week, repeating all the propaganda lines (Iran is building nuclear weapons and threatening peaceful Israel and the good Muslims of the Gulf states). Another site Achse des Guten is strongly influenced by Henryk M. Broder, a son of Holocaust survivors (whose sentiments are predictably anti-German, if you look closely enough, which many people don’t do), who was a strong cheerleader of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (basically you were just an unreconstructed Nazi if you didn’t agree with the invasion) and is also constantly warning about Iran. Unfortunately many people are unable to shake off their conditioning and uncritically swallow those arguments, attacking Merkel (who in general has been absolutely disastrous) for one of the few issues (the Iran nuclear deal) where her stance is actually defensible imo.

  182. ISLAMOPHOBIC U.S. MEGADONOR FUELS GERMAN FAR-RIGHT PARTY WITH VIRAL FAKE NEWS
    https://theintercept.com/2017/09/22/german-election-afd-gatestone-institute/
    But one of the major publishers of online content friendly to the far-right party is an American website financed in large part and lead by Jewish philanthropist Nina Rosenwald.

    Rosenwald’s site, the Gatestone Institute, publishes a steady flow of inflammatory content about the German election, focused on stoking fears about immigrants and Muslims.

    The Sugar Mama of Anti-Muslim Hate
    https://www.thenation.com/article/sugar-mama-anti-muslim-hate/
    Philanthropist Nina Rosenwald has used her millions to cement the alliance between the pro-Israel lobby and the Islamophobic fringe.

  183. German_reader says

    I know, I’m wary of those people.
    But tbh, I don’t have a problem with Islamophobia in principle. I’m an Islamophobe myself. And Merkel’s policy really has been disastrous and will lead to Germany’s destruction. She is undoubtedly one of the worst figures in German history.

  184. for-the-record says

    New evidence, perhaps, that would finally confirm the charge of collusion in the 2016 US Presidential election:

    As Russia collusion fades, Ukrainian plot to help Clinton emerges

    Ukraine’s top prosecutor divulged in an interview aired Wednesday on Hill.TV that he has opened an investigation into whether his country’s law enforcement apparatus intentionally leaked financial records during the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign about then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort in an effort to sway the election in favor of Hillary Clinton.

    The leak of the so-called black ledger files to U.S. media prompted Manafort’s resignation from the Trump campaign and gave rise to one of the key allegations in the Russia collusion probe that has dogged Trump for the last two and a half years.

    Ukraine Prosecutor General Yurii Lutsenko’s probe was prompted by a Ukrainian parliamentarian’s release of a tape recording purporting to quote a top law enforcement official as saying his agency leaked the Manafort financial records to help Clinton’s campaign.

    The parliamentarian also secured a court ruling that the leak amounted to “an illegal intrusion into the American election campaign,” Lutsenko told me. Lutsenko said the tape recording is a serious enough allegation to warrant opening a probe, and one of his concerns is that the Ukrainian law enforcement agency involved had frequent contact with the Obama administration’s U.S. Embassy in Kiev at the time . . .

    Lutsenko’s interview with Hill.TV raises another troubling dynamic: The U.S. Embassy and the chief Ukrainian prosecutor, who America entrusts with fighting corruption inside an allied country, currently have a dysfunctional relationship.

    In our interview, Lutsenko accused the Obama-era U.S. Embassy in 2016 of interfering in his ability to prosecute corruption cases, saying the U.S. ambassador gave him a list of defendants that he would not be allowed to pursue and then refused to cooperate in an early investigation into the alleged misappropriation of U.S. aid in Ukraine.

    Lutsenko provided me with a letter from the embassy, supporting part of his story by showing that a U.S. official did in fact ask him to stand down on the misappropriation-of-funds case. “We are gravely concerned about this investigation for which we see no basis,” an embassy official named George Kent wrote to the prosecutor’s office.

    The State Department on Wednesday issued a statement declaring that it no longer financially supports Lutsenko’s office in its anti-corruption mission and considers his allegation about the do-not-prosecute list “an outright fabrication.”

    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges

  185. That’s ridiculous. The aim of dropping the atomic bombs was to force the Japanese to surrender, avoiding hundreds of thousands of American soldiers dying in an invasion (or possibly even more Japanese civilians in a blockade)

    Sure. UPA wasn’t even trying to invade Poland.

    in a war started by Japanese aggression.

    The Polish state had been occupying Ukrainian lands. It invaded and conquered them in 1918-1919. So that was how the aggression started.

    Torturing and murdering tens of thousands of civilians who posed no military threat

    Incinerating them as was done by Angl0-American bombers to German and Japanese civilians was better?

    The reasons are not at all the same.

    Anglo-Americans burned alive 100,000s of civilians hundreds or thousands of miles from their own home territory, to make their invasion of those lands easier. Ukrainian peasants organized by UPA massacred 60,000-100,000 civilians in an attmept to prevent their home territory from being occupied by a foreign state.

    now I have grown to understand completely why people hate you (Ukrainian nationalists)

    Not a Ukrianian nationalist, nor were any of my ancestors OUN or UPA members.

    Let me guess: as an Englishmen you have come to see these Ukrainians as being like the Irish.

  186. How so? Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this wuld even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.

    My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.

  187. No, for diaspora the UPA were heroes and the crimes didn’t happen.

  188. Sure. I condemn what UPA did and hope I did not give the opposite impression. I’ll repeat what I wrote to utu:

    Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this would even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.

    My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.

  189. Many Poles realize what their governemnt did in Ukraine in the 1920s and 1930s was also shameful (f not nearly as bad as what UPA did) and thus prefer not to bring up the mid 20th century mess at all.

    There is a Ukrianian (diaspora) national hall not far from where I live where they sometimes host parties where both Ukrainian and Polish off the boaters come. So one can see Poles drinking in a hall with a portrait of Bandera hanging on the wall.

  190. How energetic has Israel really been in denouncing AfD? Google isn’t showing me a ton. I see that some wings of Afd are pushing to outlaw male circumcision and kosher slaughterhouses. Even if one supports these positions (and yes I understand that they are primarily directed at Muslims) it’s not hard to see why many Jews would take a dim view of a party that seriously entertained them. Regardless I don’t think Israel is responsible in any significant way for the failures of the AfD.

    Comments like Le Pen’s are just that, comments, not binding decrees with the force of law, but as with e.g. the recent Israeli comments about Poland they are insensitive and ill advised (to say the least).

  191. I think there was direct flight between Sochi and Tel Aviv since 2014?

    But the way Israel operates visa-free with Russia (Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, etc), is perhaps more bad than good.

    They have an open visa regime. But then instead they operate “immigration control” in the airport with Russia/Ukraine/Belarus people, and they particularly deport Ukrainians.

    In response, Ukraine started an airport war , and is doing the same to Israelis.
    https://zn.ua/international/unizhennye-i-vozmuschennye-311939_.html

  192. Exactly – my point is your writings appeared autistic. The text appeared to be written by someone who has no understanding of the people he is assigning motives to (or people in general).

    Therefore, the recent projections you made where you were calling people like myself, who didn’t share your political opinions, “autistic normies”. It is an interesting contradiction of terms, as “normies” is the term used by people with autistic spectrum disorders to refer to non-autistic people.

    I think part of this is just reading too much “evolutionary psychology” books. But part of it is obviously a theory of mind.

    Here you believe view that peoples’ ideologies are based in racial self-interest, and that this racial interest can result in complicated longterm conspiracies.

    But then you are confused that Bolshevik Jews still supporting the USSR in the 1950s, when supporting USSR was not “aligned with Jewish racial interests”.

    You then mention confusion that their ideologies go against racial self-interest, and attribute this to their “stupidity” (you can re-read your post) or lack of conspiracy skills.

    I needn’t add the obvious fact, that Bolshevik Jews were still supporting the USSR in the 1950s, because and to the extent they were still Bolsheviks.

    Marx, himself wanted Jews to dissolve as a separate nationality, and believed the end of capitalism will make “Jews impossible”.
    https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htm

  193. Related:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/03/23/in-ukraine-presidential-vote-joker-wild.html

    Excerpt –

    While Washington applauds Poroshenko’s firm anti-Russian line, his performance on corruption lags in the eyes of US Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, who says efforts have “not yet resulted in the anti-corruption or rule of law reforms that Ukrainians expect or deserve.” As reported by Voice of America,Yovanovitch specifically wants Poroshenko to fire his special anti-corruption prosecutor Nazar Kholodnytsky. “Nobody who has been recorded coaching suspects on how to avoid corruption charges can be trusted to prosecute those very same cases,” said Yovanovitch, referring to Kholodnytsky. “Those responsible for corruption should be investigated, prosecuted, and if guilty, go to jail.”

    Yovanovitch may face her own pot/kettle problem when it comes to turning a blind eye to corruption. Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko told Hill.TV’s John Solomon that in their very first meeting Yovanovitch gave him a “do not prosecute” list. “My response of that is it is inadmissible,” says Lutsenko – who is also is also investigating a claim from a member of the Verkhovna Rada that the director of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), Artem Sytnyk, attempted to assist the 2016 US presidential election of Hillary Clinton. “Nobody in this country, neither our president nor our parliament nor our ambassador, will stop me from prosecuting whether there is a crime,” continued Lutsenko to Solomon. Yovanovitch has also reportedly badmouthed US President Donald Trump to Ukrainian officials, telling them to ignore him because he’s going to be impeached. Predictably, Secretary Mike Pompeo’s State Department has rushed to the defense – not of Trump, but of Yovanovitch, who has also ruffled conservative moral sensibilities in Ukraine with her showy support for LGBT issues.

  194. But there is a difference. Pussy Riot are good people politically speaking while the UK arrests hateful people, so from their perspective there is a fundamental difference.

    Of course they have their subjective views.

    But it’s still quite ridiculous and useful to look at. Pussy Riot were making some video in a church. And UK arrests people for vandalism in churches.

    Far-right graffiti church vandal jailed for 6 years

    https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/Far-right-graffiti-church-vandal-jailed-for-6-years

    Sure one is right politically, and one liberal politically. One has physical damage, while the other is only damage atmosphere.

    But the legal justifications in the courts of the two countries, will be very similar (church is some “holy” place, so it is as a worse than normal hooliganism).

    In the case of Pussy Riot, of course Putin opposed the punishment, or believed it was too much.

    Cuba’s government is rather liberal:

    But not when Fidel Castro, was there (and Castro is still “cool” with Western liberals – credit for Daily Beast that they at least challenge this contradiction).

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/fidel-castros-horrific-record-on-gay-rights

    It is much easier simply to hate renegade white countries like Russia, Poland, Hungary, Italy or whichever European country is next to go rogue.

    Orban claims to be in conflict with the Western liberal ideology (although this is partly just election campaigning, his actual policies are classical liberal).

    It is understandable for Western anti-racists or liberals to hate Orban.

    But Putin’s personal ideology is anti-racist and multinationalist. And then the “repressive laws”, are more or less the same as in many Western European countries. Lack of “free speech absolutism” is dividing America from Europe. But not Western Europe from Russia.

    There’s a lot lost in translation, when our “centrist” and “moderate” politician is hated by their “centrist” supporting journalists and citizens.

  195. Israel has picked the very worst Islamic countries, Saudi-Arabia and other Gulf states,

    Saudi Arabia was paying for suicide bombers in Israel until early 2000s (they transferred $5000 for each Palestinian suicide bomb against Israel).

    Obviously, it is a large improvement in Israel’s security, if Saudi Arabia moderates their view to it (Saudi Arabia was also supporting Chechens in the 1990s).

    Payment of Saudi Arabia for suicide bombings in Israel was ended by Bush pressure after 9/11 (but America was complicit for Saudi support of Chechen terrorists).

    In the case of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. It’s still politically impossible, for Saudi Arabia to be actually normal relations with Israel – as their education system will have created a population hostile to Israel.

    Saudi Arabia has friendly relations with America, Russia and UK, where they invest billions of dollars, buy weapons, or even their children to study. The relations with Israel are much more secret and they are more like the relations Israel has with Egypt or Jordan (where publicly they are very unfriendly, but privately friendly with the ruler).

  196. Ironically, I witnessed similar experiences in AZ where large prominent portraits of Bandera and Shukhevych adorned the local Ukrainian hallway. Finally, after some 30 years the portraits were taken down, as the local Polish community would often rent the hall for their own parties. Now, they have their own hall I am told, but the portraits of the two nationalists remain taken down. The ones of Shevchenko and Franko still remain on the walls. Nobody seems to care much, either way. 🙂

  197. Thorfinnsson says

    Those links are a great trip down memory lane and have a lot of excellent material, but I compared the P-51’s range to the Spitfire. In fact P-47s were more important than P-51s during the Big Week that broke the Luftwaffe.

    The P-38 having counter-rotating propellers meant that a skilled, properly trained pilot could use differential thrust to escape a single-engine fighter. Useful capability which the Germans sure could’ve used on their twin-engine fighters. Not the same thing as being a highly maneuverable aircraft, hence why SWPA P-38 pilots in the 5th Air Force mainly exploited their tremendous advantage in speed and diving to use boom and zoom tactics.

    Also, while not a knock on the P-38 itself, poor pilot training meant that differential thrust tactics were rarely used in the ETO.

    http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html

    Eric Brown was the world’s best test pilot of that period and not prone to bias. He liked the Spitfire, but he was fair and considered the P-51 to be its equal. And liking Spitfires was not just a British position. Some of the RAF Eagle pilots that converted to the P-47 from the Spitfire initially hated the aircraft until they learned to exploit its virtues. Adolf Galland also famously told Goering during the Battle of Britain that he would like a squadron of Spitfires.

    The Mach numbers in question related to maneuvering limits in a dive (obviously WW2-era fighters couldn’t fly that fast in level flight) and were caused by compressibility in the transonic range. Since this relates to wing design and not the engines, it doesn’t matter what kind of P-38 Brown was flying.

    Regarding the engines, that was another problem with the P-38 in the ETO. The engines were known in the ETO as the “Allison time bomb”. Bill Knudsen vetoed the effort to equip the P-38 with Merlins, and Allison for various reasons refused to improve the engine sufficiently.

    The Spitfire also had a problem with compressibility (don’t recall the limit) which is why the British designed the replacement Supermarine Spiteful.

    The good news for the P-47 is that it didn’t need to maneuver in a dive because it could dive faster than its opponents thanks to its great weight and R2800 engine.

    The P-47 had a number of features intended for high altitude operation, but these didn’t harm it at low altitude operation other than that they cost money. And actually hydraulically boosted flaps at low altitude might save your life. It’s not like it had a specialized high altitude wing (e.g. as on the Ta-152).

    You do bring up another reason for P-51 superiority however: it was cheaper and easier to maintain. Admittedly not relevant to the pilot in the cockpit, but certainly relevant to the USAAF.

    I don’t believe that a P-47 could outclimb a late mark Spitfire. Griffon-engined Spitfires, by simple physics, would obviously outclimb a P-47. I suppose past a certain altitude the P-47’s turbocharger could’ve provided an edge over the Spitfire’s two-speed supercharger. The Yak-3 obviously would’ve been shredded outside of a low altitude dogfight owing to its inferior engine.

  198. In Ukraine, from official levels, most from Yushchenko, they have been rehabilitating all these people, and for recent generation who were in school, it seems they are unaware of any problems in this history of their glorious heroes.

    Poland’s education system probably teaches – more accurately – the opposite.

    So now the stupidly inevitable results

  199. Thorfinnsson says

    Politics is a job. By that standard Kurz is qualified–he has shown a consistent ability to win elections and has worked in politics for his whole adult life.

    People often wring their hands about “professional politicians” (see German_reader), but professional politicians are not new (Bismarck was a professional politician).

    There is often the expressed desire that political leaders should have other qualifications and job experience. Well, the USA elected Donald Trump. He has actually shown a better ability to deal with the media than traditional politicians, but he has not been good at building effective political coalitions and enacting his agenda. Perhaps the lack of political experience is a hindrance.

    Another thing to remember is that Austria and New Zealand are small countries. Austria is smaller than Moscow and NZ is the size of St. Petersburg. So think of Kurz as the Mayor of Moscow and that kiwi slut as the Mayor of St. Petersburg. Still impressive at a young age (especially Kurz!), but not as impressive as the President of the Russian Federation.

    German_reader, like many Germans, has some sort of problem with Mormonism. Mormonism believes in odd things but Mormons themselves are highly functional. The fact that slut left her religion because she worships homo-sexuals is actually far more alarming.

  200. Thorfinnsson says

    I think your view is correct, but given that engine oil is not expensive it gives me peace of mind to purchase the best.

  201. political leaders should have other qualifications and job experience.

    Skills learning in the jobs and profession, can be extremely definitive of, and useful for, political leader.

    For Putin – counterintelligence. For Reagan – Hollywood acting. For Obama -community organizing. In the case of Merkel – “quantum chemistry”,

    Merkel’s work in quantum chemistry, perhaps unfortunately, abstracted her mind completely from the normal world.

    German_reader, like many Germans, has some sort of problem with Mormonism

    And their compatriot founded Brigham Young University – perhaps another reason for collective self-punishment
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_G._Maeser

    But I think Mormons, are mainly only being suppressed or arrested in Russia (Jehovah Witnesses are suppressed in many other countries though, not just Russia).

    And in Russia, there is actually now religious toleration. I even see Hare Krishna people quite a lot in public in the city where my parents live, and no-one arrests them, even though they are quite noisy.

    So why are missionaries of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, often arrested? I suspect the authorities have seen some evidence of a connection to the CIA or State Department, at least in relation to their missionary activity in Russia.

  202. I once heard it used as segway.

    I don’t know if Oliver Cromwell was really very different from some men of his day or men who had previously invaded Ireland, like Edward the Bruce or Strongbow. Massacres were probably pretty common, like the Siege of Smerwick, during the Second Desmond Rebellion. Part of my family had a farm on top of a big medieval burial ground – seems to have been a village obliterated by Edward the Bruce and never rebuilt, but history is patchy. What is known is only that he passed by that way.

    Still, I find the revisionism strange because it is not really about Cromwell but specifically about the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland. One contemporary estimate was that 40% of the population of Ireland was killed from war and induced famine. Whatever the true number, (some say only 20%), I can’t help but think that there is some strange political motivation. Either a globalist attack on Irish identity, or else they appreciate his anticlerical activities.

    Where I first heard it was actually on American public radio. Something I really abhor, but someone else was listening to it. On any given day, to hear it you would think it was communists, so it is easy to suspect some political dimension.

  203. Thorfinnsson says

    Skills learning in the jobs and profession, can be extremely definitive of, and useful for, political leader.

    As you pointed out in your comments about the Irkut MC-21 program, there is always the opportunity cost.

    And some skills turn out not to be terribly relevant to politics anyway.

    That said I am a fan of developing many skills. Scott Adams calls this the “talent stack”. It’s generally more useful than becoming a specialist, unless you are the world’s best specialist in your specialty.

    But these skills can be developed in many ways other than so-called “education” or one’s nominal job. While Donald Trump was a real estate developer, for whatever reason he chose to become a skilled celebrity and media personality. This then led to a lucrative second career and followed by success in politics.

    George W Bush, while he grew up in a political family, apparently developed no skills of any kind as a young man–other than excellent social skills. Then in his middle age he became a successful politician, no doubt aided by his lifelong cultivation of social skills.

    People are hoping for some kind of a background that produces philosopher kings, but I don’t believe there is such a background.

    For Putin – counterintelligence. For Reagan – Hollywood acting. For Obama -community organizing. In the case of Merkel – “quantum chemistry”,

    Merkel’s work in quantum chemistry, perhaps unfortunately, abstracted her mind completely from the normal world.

    Reagan and Obama here were simply developing political skills. Acting is obviously useful for a politician, and community organizing is politics.

    Counterintelligence is not politics but is obviously useful in politics, and it’s useful for a national leader. Fortunate for Russia.

    As for Merkel’s background, completely useless for politics or leadership. Perhaps has some relevance in setting policy for science funding.

    Sweden’s Prime Minister was a welder. That’s a “real job”. He’s also a bad Prime Minister and a laughing stock.

  204. I view New Hampshire, where state representatives are not given a salary, as being more functional and less corrupt than Massachusetts, where they are given a salary and pension. Of course, there are other factors, like demographics, and many of the most corrupt MA pols are also lawyers.

    Probably, the best solution would be to end universal sufferage, though I have heard some speak favorably of having a political draft.

  205. It invaded and conquered them in 1918-1919.

    Come on. You are claiming that Poles who lived here for hundreds of years INVADED their own homes?

    Also, I’m really dissapointed you are trying to justify thugs who murdered thousands of innocent civilians (including members of my more distant family) – thugs which sometimes sent letters assuring civilians that they are safe and that they do not need to escape, only to attack them later. Somehow, Taras Borowec who founded first UPA had not thought ethnic cleansing was necessary, despite he also wanted to conquer this territories for Ukraine.

  206. I don’t have a problem with Islamophobia in principle

    I do but I am willing to accept it if it would be helping to keep Europe Muslim free. So far it does not and the only outcome of Islamophobia is support of Israel.

  207. The question is why Poland is letting millions of Ukrainians in? Why would Poles want to have somebody like AP as their neighbor? Volhynia genocide was the most disgusting crime of the WWII the way it was conducted. It was a mass orgy of wanton tortures and killings in which masses of regular country folks enthusiastically participated. And all you hear from them are excuses.

  208. Massacres mainly happened in Volhynia. Some of Ukrainians there were actually helping Poles. UPA also murdered their own people who refused to cooperate. Hard to blame whole nation for the actions of the few. Of course, UPA glorification is disgusting, but somewhat understandable, given that UPA later was fighting against Soviets, and given there are not many other organizations from that period, and Ukraine is still a young nation.

    Also, I’ve been reading about Civil War in Mozambique and the methods the RENAMO was using to ensure cooperation from the locals (e.g. forcing people to kill their neighbours). Some of them were rather similar to UPA methods.

  209. A poll on #WeChat showing how over 2000 #Chinese respondents react to the shooting in #christchurch. In one of the questions, over 56% of them feel extremely sympathetic after reading his manifesto while more than 60% view the event as a revenge rather than terrorist attack. https://t.co/MxYFJx0iPZ— William Yang (@WilliamYang120) March 17, 2019

  210. Acting allowed Reagan to get his gig as host of “General Electric Theater”, which became a long-running TV and radio show. As part of it, he toured 135 GE plants and made speeches in front of possibly 250,000 people or more. I think this was probably more important than his earlier movie career, but I suppose it is hard to separate them.

  211. Counterturning propellers negated gyroscopic forces, precession and P-factor – single-engine fighters had problem turning to one side. P-38 didn’t. The differential throttling was an ADDITIONAL technique P-38 experts could utilise.

    Those Mach numbers you quoted are patently false.
    P-47 was the fastest diving piston engine fighter of WW2, and P-47J and P-47M were fastest piston engine aircraft of WW2.
    As I have already told you, P-47 was better suited for fighting Me-262 than P-51 was.

    Regarding Allisons, V-1710 could be worked to 2500+ HP from 28 litres working volume more reliably than DB605’s 1500 from 35 litres.

  212. Thorfinnsson says

    I hate to be a sourcefag but the idea of a large twin-engine fighter having a superior turn radius and instantaneous turn rate compared to single-engine fighters strikes me as extremely dubious. Do you have anything more detailed about this?

    It’s not like the US was the only belligerent to field twin-engine fighters.

    Army Air Forces report: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html

    b. Inasmuch as the general maneuverability of this aircraft is probably the lowest of any type of current fighter aircraft, and in view of the competition facing the P-38G in the European Theatre, all possible effort should be made to improve its rate of climb and high speed.

    I didn’t dispute the P-47’s high speed diving capability so I don’t know why you’re repeating that. Do you have evidence that the Mach numbers are false?

    The XP-47J was not a service aircraft. The P-47M was extremely fast, tied with the Ta-152 if memory serves.

    I compared the Allison to the Merlin, not the DB605. Since you are a P-38 fan you should be well aware of the “Allison time bomb” issue in the ETO.

    If comparing American (or British) engines to German ones then the Germans get a handicap because they didn’t have 145 octane avgas available.

  213. Another important aspect isn’t overfilling, while frequently checking the fluid level. For several reasons, many modern engines consume oil. Overfilling is bad, as is not having enough.

  214. I would have to dig through books and documents I had read long time ago – but it is imprinted in my mind that in the Pacific P-38 aces exploited P-38 advantage in turning on one side to outperform even the nimble Japanese dogfighters.

    You shouldn’t be too hard on dual-engined planes – take a look at Mosquito in its various outfits, including fighter, and it didn’t have the unique P-38 layout. Similarily, Pe-2 light bombers could successfuly maneuver and evade German fighters (empty, of course) – as has been noted. Generally, the key parameters to take into account are engine power (function of altitude), control surface area, and the “drag area” – not just the cross-section but airfoil layout and total surface.

    I dispute the notion that P-47 was limited to Mach 0.71 during dive, or “maneuvering” as you initially stated.
    P-47 could dive in excess of 500 mph and leave every single piston fighter behind them.
    P-47M was faster than Ta-152.

    Regarding diving, it wasn’t just the final velocity – the immediate acceleration when engaging in maneuver was what counted – IIRC correctly P-51 had ~500 mph redline, while P-47 went beyond that. So, P-51D with its laminar flow wings and cleaner form might ultimately come close to max speed, but P-47 would be near its max dive speed sooner. It would also be more controllable at those speeds. Anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable, but there is definitely something in them when P-47 pilots boasted they only had to lower the nose down, full throttle and be gone – German pilots recognized P-47 diving like a brick from them, while P-51 could be evaded in a Bf-109 and FW-190D

    Also, regarding its turbosupercharger – it was dead weight at low altitudes, while the plane sacrificed a lot to have the ability to carry it – size, wing loading, payload, fuel capacity. Maneuvering at low altitudes with dense air was not the same as at high altitudes – energy bleeding in turns was different, control surface impact was different.

    I am aware of the abysmal performance of P-38s in the Mediterranean and ETO – there was a notorious incident where a green formation of P-38 (early type) were ambushed by Bf-109 Experten with altitude and speed advantage – something like 11 – 0 kill count in that battle.
    The P-38 in Europe had terrible reliability and availability rates compared to Pacific – would be interesting to track engine serial number and origin.
    However, this would actually be in accordance with the very steep learning curve and lopsided ratios of air combat – something like 10% of fighter pilots achieved 90% of all kills – my guess due to 3D nature of combat, need to predict opposition’s moves, react instantaneously and “feel” the plane and its weapons – deflection shooting was a craft.

  215. My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.

    Finally, we agree on something! The treatment of the Germans by the allies during and after the second world war was atrocious. Not so sure about the Japanese, though, as they got off relatively light compared to the Germans, despite the terror bombings and the nuclear attacks.

  216. German_reader says

    The treatment of the Germans by the allies during and after the second world war was atrocious.

    AP has on numerous occasions justified Poland’s post-war annexations of German territory and the mass expulsions of Germans living there, iirc he used the same argument “It wasn’t as bad as the aerial bombing of the western allies”.
    His views seem to be rather idiosyncratic, I don’t know if there are many other people who view things that way (pro-Polish on one WW-2 related issue, anti-Polish on another). But at least it’s interesting to read.

  217. German_reader says

    but professional politicians are not new (Bismarck was a professional politician).

    The problem isn’t with people devoting their life to politics, but with parties making the state their prey through state funding for their party foundations and organizations etc. This creates a parasitic caste keen on defending its privileges at all costs, and also completely alienated from the life experiences of ordinary citizens, since they’ve never done anything but politics. Admittedly some of the alternatives (financing parties through donations of wealthy individuals) are also problematic.
    Bismarck could have lived well as an estate-owner without ever entering politics, he also had experience in the diplomatic service. The mediocrities dominating party politics today are rather different imo.

  218. There can be a connection between Islamophobia and pro-Israel, but it does not seem to match simply like you imply.

    In the West, people seem generally much more Islamophilic, and it’s possible that contributes to anti-Israel views. So reducing Islamophilia, would reduce opposition to Israel. For example, in this forum, almost everyone said they oppose the New Zealand Mosque attack.

    But in the Russian internet – at least popular websites I read – most commentators supported attack on the Mosque New Zealand, and people were getting hundreds of upvotes for supporting it.

    Yet most Russian people are not pro-Israel, despite general dislike of Mosques. And Russia has a friendly external policy with the Muslim world.

    So Islamophobia is not any sufficient condition for being pro-Israel.

    Also most Israelis are more liberal than people like me, and I’m more liberal than most people on the internet – so supporting Israel will not satisfy any real illiberal Islamophobia. (When they learn the reality of Israel, they will just become angry to see Israeli government has good relations with the rulers of a lot of Muslim countries, is full of mosques, and that Kadyrov is allowed to use – presumably federal tax money – to build mosques in Israel).

    1. Germany behaved much worse toward Poland than Poland did to Ukraine.
    2. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them, as the Anglo-Americans did (while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them). The Anglo-Americans deliberately targeted civilian areas and incinerated 350,000 – 650,000 civilians in Germany. It is absurd to claim that UPA crimes were any worse than that, just because they were low tech.

    *The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the Nazis

  219. German_reader says

    Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them

    There are claims that 400 000-500 000 Germans were killed during the expulsions from the Oder-Neiße area which would be more than the number of those killed by allied bombing (estimated at around 300 000 German civilians by Richard Overy). I don’t know how plausible that is (it seems rather high, maybe exaggerated), but there certainly was a lot of extreme unpleasantness involved.
    And the official Polish justification (that those territories were “recovered” and had always been fundamentally Slavic in nature) was of course absolute garbage, in its fundamental nature not totally different from Nazi claims that Germany was merely re-gathering ancient Germanic land.
    But that’s not the point anyway…I have little desire to re-litigate an issue like the Polish-German border or the justice of post-war expulsions which is (or should be) irrelevant today. I just find it amusing how predictably tribal you always are in your judgements…despite your claims that you aren’t a nationalist, you always come up with elaborate justifications for everything your favorite nations/states (Ukraine, Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, Poland – probably in that order) have done. It’s especially amusing in the case of conflict between your favorites, like in the Polish-Ukrainian conflict during WW2.

  220. It invaded and conquered them in 1918-1919.

    Come on. You are claiming that Poles who lived here for hundreds of years INVADED their own homes?

    No, but the Polish state did, on their behalf and with their help. The Polish state between the wars was not, of course, genocidal and thus preventing its return was no excuse for the crimes committed by the Ukrainians.

    Also, I’m really dissapointed you are trying to justify thugs who murdered thousands of innocent civilians

    I am not justifying their crimes but comparing them to other crimes of the same time and pointing out that other crimes had more dubious reasons and were conducted on a much larger scale. To repeat what I had written to utu:

    Since UPA and OUN did not have access to internal Polish documents calling for the ethnic cleansing of those lands (and who knows if this would even have been attempted – the local Poles wanted to to do it but the government in exile rejected it), they murdered the Polish civilians in order to prevent the return of Polish rule. Although Polish rule was very unpleasant, it was not nearly sufficiently unpleasant to warrant the mass murder of massive numbers of civilians. There was thus no legitimate justification for this crime.

    My main point was not to justify what UPA did but to point out that their “justification” was no worse than that of the Anglo-Americans who were murdering German and Japanese civilians during that time. Sorry if I was not clear.

    :::::::::::::::

    Saying “X” is not as bad as “Y” does not mean saying “X” was all right.

    Somehow, Taras Borowec who founded first UPA had not thought ethnic cleansing was necessary, despite he also wanted to conquer this territories for Ukraine.

    I agree. UPA murdered his wife and many of his followers.

  221. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them

    In this case it obviously was, given that millions of Germans died during the ethnic cleansing against them in Eastern Europe.

    The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the Nazis

    So you think that people should be ethnically cleansed/killed based on how they vote? Good to know.

  222. Such a shame. I thought we (me and AP) had found some common ground.

    It’s pretty ridiculous to argue that the bombings were crimes but the expulsions were not, given that the expulsion of the eastern Germans was pretty clearly genocidal.

  223. People are hoping for some kind of a background that produces philosopher kings, but I don’t believe there is such a background.

    Well it’s good you talk about Plato, because this is who I was thinking about.

    developing political skills.

    Democratic “political skills”, however, – does not imply “good for country skills”.

    This is implied in the discussion of Plato – Republic, Book VI

    Sophists and whom they deem to be their adversaries, do, in fact, teach nothing but the opinion of the many, that is to say, the opinions of their assemblies; and this is their wisdom.

    I might compare them to a man who should study the tempers and desires of a mighty strong beast who is fed by him-he would learn how to approach and handle him, also at what times and from what causes he is dangerous or the reverse, and what is the meaning of his several cries, and by what sounds, when another utters them, he is soothed or infuriated; and you may suppose further, that when, by continually attending upon him, he has become perfect in all this, he calls his knowledge wisdom, and makes of it a system or art, which he proceeds to teach, although he has no real notion of what he means by the principles or passions of which he is speaking, but calls this honourable and that dishonourable, or good or evil, or just or unjust, all in accordance with the tastes and tempers of the great brute.

    Good he pronounces to be that in which the beast delights and evil to be that which he dislikes; and he can give no other account of them except that the just and noble are the necessary, having never himself seen, and having no power of explaining to others the nature of either, or the difference between them, which is immense.

    http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.7.vi.html

    Skillful politician, like people trained by sophists, becomes very good at understanding what the beast (masses) wants, and how to satisfy its next appetite, or appease it with nice words.

    But desires of a mob, has often little relation to what is actually true or false.

    With the professional politician, you have no more experience than an animal trainer’s, as their whole profession was related to pleasing the beast.

    Why we want politician to have a real profession before, is that they might have some understanding of actual true and false, at least within their narrow sphere.

    Romney, for example, has practical experience in business, which would be relevant for economy. Trump has practical experience in “deals” – or this is how he marketed himself.

    And – more uselessly – Merkel, has experience in “quantum chemistry”, which means her brain was rewired for some years to have zero connection to everyday reality.

    Acting is obviously useful for a politician, and community organizing is politics.

    A lot of President’s job is a symbolic one, and this is where Reagan was excellently trained. You can see he looks like a real gentleman (or Hollywood actor’s interpretation of a gentleman).

  224. I generally agree with your comment but:

    Hard to blame whole nation for the actions of the few.

    In Volhynia the massacres had a mass component to them – many, many villagers took part in the massacres. There was a lot of pent up hatred that was unleashed by a primitive population that had previously been demoralized by the Soviets and Nazis. The Polish government had been burning down Orthodox Churches in the 1930s and the villagers reacted as they would have in the 18th or 19th century.

    In some ways it was similar to what Polish villagers had done 100 years earlier, though on a larger scale:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_slaughter

    Peasants attacked the manor houses of the rebel noble leaders as well as of suspected rebel nobles and killed many hundreds of the estate owners and their families; about 90% of the manor houses in the Tarnów region are estimated to have been destroyed.[14] At least 470 manor houses were destroyed.[12] Estimates of the number of lives lost by Polish estate owners and officials range from 1,000 to 2,000.[9] Jezierski notes that most of the victims were not nobles (he estimates those constituted maybe about 200 of the fatalities) but their direct employees.[12] Most of the victims had no direct involvement with the Polish insurgents other than being a part of the same social class.[8] (Davies also notes that near Bochnia, Austrian officials were attacked by overzealous peasantry.[16]) Bideleux and Jeffries discuss the total number of victims noting that “more than two thousand lives were lost on both sides”, which suggests that most of the victims were from among the Polish nobility.[5]

    They were sawing off people’s heads and doing things like that.

    Of course, UPA glorification is disgusting, but somewhat understandable, given that UPA later was fighting against Soviets

    This makes it somewhat more complicated. A lot of people joined UPA in 1945 or 1946 to fight the Soviets; these people had nothing to do with Polish massacres. Given the rate of attrition the UPA people involved in massacres in 1943-1944 were mostly killed off and the surviving UPA veterans are mostly the ones who joined later.

  225. To briefly wade into this swamp:

    I don’t know what the big deal about the Allied bombings is. They were at least minimally defensible militaraily (we now know that the Brits would have been better off continuing to bomb the Ruhr from 1943, but hindsight is 20/20). Let’s also not forget that 40,000+ Brits died in the Blitz. If the Germans had had greater bombing capacity, it’s not like they’d have refrained from killing many more Brits out of humanitarian concerns. To the extent it was a war crime, it was a squarely reciprocal one.

    In this sense, the UPA massacres aren’t anywhere near comparable, despite a lower death toll.

  226. Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them

    In this case it obviously was, given that millions of Germans died during the ethnic cleansing against them in Eastern Europe.

    I wrote: “while I support the territorial adjustments I do not support the atrocities that sometimes accompanied them”

    That wasn’t clear enough for you?

    The German regions whose inhabitants were expelled were the same ones that had voted for the Nazis

    So you think that people should be ethnically cleansed/killed based on how they vote? Good to know.

    I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.

  227. The Western allies deliberately targeted German residential areas. It was just pure civilian-killing.

    The atom bomb over Japan was different because it actually stopped the war, thus sparing civilians. The terror-bombing of Germany was just senseless murder. I guess it was revenge for the Brits, as if that makes killing innocent people justifiable, but what did Germany do to America?

    UPA was operating on its own territory and killing people in order to prevent their victim’s state from coming back to their lands. Also not justifiable (see my other comments) but certainly no less justifiable than what the American and British “heroes” were up to.

  228. The expulsions used criminal methods but expulsion itself was not a crime, whereas the bombings were purely criminal.

  229. Why would Poles want to have somebody like AP as their neighbor?

    LOL, my best friend and godfather to one of my kids is a Pole, whose aunt was murdered by UPA. Our peoples generally get along okay 🙂

    Volhynia genocide was the most disgusting crime of the WWII the way it was conducted. It was a mass orgy of wanton tortures and killings

    Soviets, Nazis, Ustase, were all worse.

    And all you hear from them are excuses.

    While the crimes were inexcusable, they did not occur without causes. Nor were they unique.
    Pointing this out is not making an excuse for them.

  230. Yes Karlin talked about that Chinese survey. Reaction of Chinese internets, sounds like a more moderate version of Russian internet’s reaction to the New Zealand story.

    At least in the website forums I go to, most people supported the Mosque attack. I was a little shocked by the extent of the illiberal attitude of commentators to this story last week. (I don’t know if it’s just the websites I visit? If someone knows a different internet reaction?).

    It was an example of internet culture clash on this topic. On this story, English internet felt suddenly like a different culture (with a more mature attitude),- almost all in the English internet forums like here was condemning the attack.

  231. German_reader says

    I don’t know what the big deal about the Allied bombings is.

    It’s seen as a big deal not least because so much of it was close to the end of the war in late 1944/early 1945, with some cities like Würzburg being bombed to rubble just days before allied troops entered them. Despite what defenders of specific bombings like Dresden claim, there’s no way those bombings were dictated purely by military necessity, to a large extent it was simply vengeance, which is generally seen as a base motive.

    Let’s also not forget that 40,000+ Brits died in the Blitz. If the Germans had had greater bombing capacity, it’s not like they’d have refrained from killing many more Brits out of humanitarian concerns.

    There’s an element of truth to that, the British public certainly had few reasons to be opposed to bombing of Germany after the German bombing of Britain in 1940/41 (it’s all the more remarkable that there was some opposition and controversy even during the war, e.g. Bishop Bell), and of course it’s true that Germany lacked good four-engined bombers which has to be considered in any comparison. It’s also true however that the policy of the RAF was the most extreme of all air forces in the European theater, with indiscriminate destruction of urban areas and the killing of large numbers of civilians not just a byproduct of deficient technology, but from 1942 at the latest the explicit goal of attacks. This was different both from what the Americans (in Europe) and the Luftwaffe did. And it wasn’t just a reaction to prior German actions as is often claimed, but to a significant extent an outgrowth of pre-war RAF doctrine.

  232. The “territorial adjustments” were clearly inseparable from the massacres and the ethnic cleansing that accompanied them. It makes no sense to declare you support one part of this massive crime, but not the other, but then again, very little of what you say makes sense in the real world.

    I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.

    Like I said, your position is pretty stupid, given that, in reality, they were both killed and driven from their homes. But yes, this was the essence of my comment, you support the ethnic cleansing of people who vote wrong, good to know.

  233. German_reader says

    the expulsion of the eastern Germans was pretty clearly genocidal

    “genocidal” is the wrong term imo, should be limited to cases where destruction of an ethnic group is the goal (though boundaries between ethnic cleansing and genocide can be fluent, as in the case of the Armenians during WW1). That can’t be claimed about the post-war expulsions.

  234. The expulsions used criminal methods but expulsion itself was not a crime, whereas the bombings were purely criminal.

    Like I said, it’s pointless to distinguish between the ethnic cleansing of the germans and the methods that were used to accomplish it. But even your imaginary peaceful ethnic cleansing would still have been a crime, and a pretty grave one.

    As for the allied bombing campaigns, I agree with AK.

  235. Rattus Norwegius says

    “I was clear in stating that murdering civilians was unacceptable. OTOH, if you vote for and enthusiastically support a party that invades another country and takes its lands, slaughtering many of its inhabitants, you deserve to be removed from your lands and have them given to the people whom you invaded.”
    While it is true that most of the territory that Germany lost following WW2 voted were more supportive of the Nazi party, than the German average, not every German in those areas voted for the Nazi party.

    The reason that those areas were taken, was not that they had voted for the Nazi party. it was simply more practical to expand in those geographic areas.

  236. It seems to me that it’s a bit semantic to argue about the distinction between genocide and ethnic cleansing in this case. You mention the Armenian Genocide, which was a pretty clear instance of the former. If that is considered a genocide, I see no reason whatsoever that the expulsion of the eastern Germans wouldn’t be.

    However, even if we were to take a “higher” standard for the term genocide, I would still say that the eastern Germans were subject to this. In the years preceding the war, the treatment of Germans in the Soviet Union was a clear precedent for the fate that would eventually befall them throughout Eastern Europe.

    Many of the methods used to organize the campaigns of mass violence in the early Soviet Union were quite similar to the ones the Nazis would use against their own victims. For example, in “The Gulag Archipelago” Solzhenitsyn draws a parallel between Stalin’s mass deportations of “untrustworthy” ethnic groups and Hitler’s own methods, suggesting they were not too different. I agree with his analysis. Germans were one of the biggest victims of this policy in the USSR, and I think that when one views their trials throughout 1920-1946 as a whole, a pretty clear case can be made that the eastern Germans were subjected to a genocide.

  237. The “territorial adjustments” were clearly inseparable from the massacres and the ethnic cleansing that accompanied them.

    They didn’t have to be.

    It makes no sense to declare you support one part of this massive crime, but not the other,

    Not simple enough for you?

    . But yes, this was the essence of my comment, you support the ethnic cleansing of people who vote wrong, good to know.

    Depends on whom they voted for.

  238. While it is true that most of the territory that Germany lost following WW2 voted were more supportive of the Nazi party, than the German average, not every German in those areas voted for the Nazi party.

    It was 90% in Danzig/Gdansk.

    I’ve visited Silesia, according to locals (including Germans who stayed behind as “Poles”) there was mass enthusiasm for the war and the invasion of Poland, in the beginning.

    While you are correct that not everyone there voted Nazi, if territorial adjustments are going to be made as a result of a war that the Nazi party started, it might as well involve territories where most voters were Nazis.

    The reason that those areas were taken, was not that they had voted for the Nazi party. it was simply more practical to expand in those geographic areas.

    I agree, but it worked out better that the Germans who voted for the party that invaded Poland and the USSR, and murdered millions of those countries’ peoples were the ones whose territory was given to Poland and Russia. While the Bavarians who did not vote the Nazis into power were left alone.

    Here was the % of Nazi votes in the 1933 election:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/NSDAP_Wahl_1933.svg/1920px-NSDAP_Wahl_1933.svg.png

    (Silesia is lighter only because of the ethnic Poles living there)

  239. German_reader says

    In the years preceding the war, the treatment of Germans in the Soviet Union was a clear precedent for the fate that would eventually befall them throughout Eastern Europe.

    I’m not sure though how important ethnic considerations were for repression of Germans in the Soviet Union before WW2, much of it may rather have been class-based…wealthy, religious peasants were seen as enemies by the communists in general, no matter their ethnic origin.
    I’m somewhat opposed to over-use of the term “genocide” in general, because often it’s merely used as a polemical attempt meant to evoke associations with the Nazi genocide of the Jews (which was a fairly distinctive, possibly singular, event that isn’t easily paralleled). But of course the legal definition is somewhat different…since there are claims of a “Bosnian genocide” during the Balkan wars in the 1990s, maybe one could make similar claims about the post-war expulsions. I doubt though that it would elucidate the issue or contribute anything positive to Polish-German relations.

  240. for-the-record says

    Forcing Nazi-voting German civilians* to move out of some territories that would be given to their Polish victims is not the same as killing them.

    Dead or Missing in Flight and Expulsion

    In the eastern territories of the German Reich 1,225,000
    In Czechoslovakia 267,000
    In other countries 619,000
    TOTAL 2,111,000

    Source: Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, A Terrible Revenge, The Ethnic Cleansing of the East European Germans, 1944–1950 . De Zayas earlier treated the subject in a more scholarly work entitled Nemesis at Potsdam.

    According to Wiki: “The death toll attributable to the flight and expulsions is disputed, with estimates ranging from 500,000-600,000[10] [11] and up to 2 to 2.5 million.[12][13][14]”.

    The victims were of course almost entirely women, children and the elderly.

  241. German_reader says

    In Czechoslovakia 267,000

    I think more recent studies have reduced that to about 30 000 (as far as I know similar studies haven’t been done for the territories annexed to Poland).
    Some of the higher estimates for deaths during the expulsions are probably exaggerated. But there doesn’t seem to be much interest in researching the issue, so we may never know.

  242. for-the-record says

    But there doesn’t seem to be much interest in researching the issue, so we may never know

    Regardless of the numbers, the individual stories are horrific.

    From a review in a Scottish newspaper (The Herald):

    1945: The Savage Peace (BBC2) told the largely unknown story of what happened to the Germans after their surrender. For those living outside Germany, notably in Czechoslovakia and Poland, ordinary people who had committed no crime, but who merely happened to be German or Ethnic German, were subject to horrific atrocities which matched what the Nazis did, not in scale, of course, but in method.

    I suppose we don’t like to admit this. Most of us prefer to think the Nazis were evil, and so that explains their actions, because if we allow some subtlety to shade the story that will discomfit us, making us think that perhaps any country, and any person, could gas, rape and slaughter. Yet this programme forced us to acknowledge that the ‘good’ side in the war were also capable of horrors. In fact, they often took care to precisely match what the Nazis did, pushing Germans into concentration camps, carrying out public hangings, lining them up by a pit or a ditch to shoot them en masse, and branding them with swastikas and armbands even though ‘their only crime is that they happen so speak German.’

    It was impossible immediately after the war, and perhaps even now, to conceive of a German as a victim. They were branded as Nazis, and the concept of collective guilt made an individual’s own innocence or goodness invisible. They were German and so were fair game for the tortured, weary and angry populations who were suddenly free and, sadly, but inevitably, wanted revenge.

  243. German_reader says

    I know, I just find it annoying how this issue is often used by revanchists who still want to refight WW2.
    One could of course draw some conclusions from all this, namely that diversity and ethnic conflict can lead to horrible results…and that it’s extremely foolish to wilfully create conditions that could eventually lead to such an outcome.

  244. It’s interesting how AP shits so much on Anglo countries for their role in defeating Nazi Germany. His fellow Ukrainians in Canada, who missed out on communism, the Holodomor, and WW2 thanks to Anglo-Canadian generosity, spent most of the last century LEADING the campaign to demoralise and delegitimise the very existence of Anglo-Saxon Canada. Apparently Ukrainians in Australia were also big proponents of turning Australia from an Anglo to a multiculti society. There seems to be a pattern here.

    I really hope AP is just a typical no-skin-in-the-game diaspora nationalist (the worst kind of nationalist, no matter the nationality) because I had a good time in Lviv in January and I’d hate to think the locals, who seemed so nice, are privately as filled with hatred towards every other nationality as he is.

    Just out of curiosity AP would you agree that the recent dispute between Ukraine and Hungary was entirely the fault of the Hungarians?

  245. Agree on diversity.

    Btw – and I certainly don’t want to take sides as far as Poles, Czechs and Germans are concerned – but have you seen the German girl on Czech border video? It’s called 1945 Lost German woman on Youtube. I’ve watched it many times out of morbid curiosity, she’s got such familiar features and so beautiful despite of what happened to her.

    Oh, and the “liberators” did a “great” job with Wilhelm Gustloff, drowning German and Latvian children – collatoral damage I guess it’s what it’s called.

    May we all be forgiven for what we do.

  246. Thorfinnsson says

    I would have to dig through books and documents I had read long time ago – but it is imprinted in my mind that in the Pacific P-38 aces exploited P-38 advantage in turning on one side to outperform even the nimble Japanese dogfighters.

    FWIW Richard Bong, the top-scoring P-38 ace, mainly used boom and zoom tactics.

    You shouldn’t be too hard on dual-engined planes – take a look at Mosquito in its various outfits, including fighter, and it didn’t have the unique P-38 layout. Similarily, Pe-2 light bombers could successfuly maneuver and evade German fighters (empty, of course) – as has been noted. Generally, the key parameters to take into account are engine power (function of altitude), control surface area, and the “drag area” – not just the cross-section but airfoil layout and total surface.

    Twin-engine fighters were fine interceptors, photo reconnaissance platforms, night fighters, etc.

    To my knowledge they were not dogfighters.

    The P-38 was a fine airplane, as was the Mosquito. Other great twins which missed the war were the F7F Tigercat and the Hornet (successor to the Mosquito).

    A key parameter you’re missing is weight, and by extension the power-to-weight and wing loading.

    I dispute the notion that P-47 was limited to Mach 0.71 during dive, or “maneuvering” as you initially stated.

    Loss of controllability as aircraft entered the transonic range was a well known problem in the WW2 era. This led to aerodynamic innovations like thinner airfoils, swept wings, the all-moving tail, etc.

    Not the same thing as being UNABLE to dive past a certain Mach number in which case many P-47s, Spitfires, P-38s, etc. would’ve simply broken up or whatever in any full power dive from altitude–something which obviously did not happen.

    P-47 could dive in excess of 500 mph and leave every single piston fighter behind them.
    P-47M was faster than Ta-152.

    A quick check on Wikipedia shows the Ta-152 as being one mile per hour slower.

    Regarding diving, it wasn’t just the final velocity – the immediate acceleration when engaging in maneuver was what counted – IIRC correctly P-51 had ~500 mph redline, while P-47 went beyond that. So, P-51D with its laminar flow wings and cleaner form might ultimately come close to max speed, but P-47 would be near its max dive speed sooner. It would also be more controllable at those speeds. Anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable, but there is definitely something in them when P-47 pilots boasted they only had to lower the nose down, full throttle and be gone – German pilots recognized P-47 diving like a brick from them, while P-51 could be evaded in a Bf-109 and FW-190D

    No question that the P-47 could dive faster than the P-51. Normally weight counts against an airplane’s acceleration, but this is reversed in a dive. On top of that the P-47 had a 2,600 horsepower engine which far exceeded the P-51 (or any Luftwaffe fighter).

    Also, regarding its turbosupercharger – it was dead weight at low altitudes, while the plane sacrificed a lot to have the ability to carry it – size, wing loading, payload, fuel capacity. Maneuvering at low altitudes with dense air was not the same as at high altitudes – energy bleeding in turns was different, control surface impact was different.

    The turbosupercharger was only dead weight at low altitudes in a hypothetical aircraft intended purely for low altitude operation. A turbosupercharger was capable of providing an appropriate amount of boost at all altitudes, which was not the case with a geared supercharger.

    See this wartime General Electric pamphlet for more: http://rwebs.net/avhistory/opsman/geturbo/geturbo.htm

    “The turbosupercharger may be used to increase rated engine power at sea level, or to furnish “ground boost”, as well as to maintain rated power at high altitude.”
    […]
    “No matter how many stages or different gear ratios are used, such a geared supercharger can never have the perfect flexibility of speed control of a turbosupercharger, and must always involve some waste of power when operating below the altitude for which it was designed. The speed of the turbosupercharger can be controlled to maintain desired conditions of carburetor-inlet pressure without regard to the engine speed.”

    http://rwebs.net/avhistory/images/_geturbo/ge_fig8.JPG

    The P-38 after all, which had its greatest successes in the Pacific where most operations were at low altitude, was equipped with turbosupercharged engines.

    The Germans planned to transition to turbosupercharged engines, but their development program failed owing to persistent shortages of the required high temperature alloys. Priority for these alloys understandably went to axial-flow turbojet engine development.

  247. Thorfinnsson says

    If you think about it most of politics consists of organized factions attempted to make the state their prey.

    A “statesman” as opposed to a politician is realistically someone who is so skilled at politics that he’s able to stay in power long enough to do something on a grand scale rather than simply satisfy his particular faction/coalition.

    Bismarck, of course, served at the pleasure of his liege lord which was fundamentally different than the situation today. But he was still forced to build coalitions in the Reichstag and Prussian Landtag, which he did in a number of unpleasant ways that today are no longer remember except through his famous quip about laws and sausage making.

    A good example of this is how he got the Reichstag to create a very generous pension for the deposed King of Hanover but inserted conditions which gave him the control of these funds. This was then used as a gigantic political slush fund by him. Today such a scandal would likely result in a lengthy prison sentence.

    What’s exceptionally frustrating in politics is when the ostensible leaders of your faction have interests divorced from yours for whatever reason. That might be a newish development of postwar politics and is not exclusive to countries with public financing of parties and elections.

    Alienation from the life experiences of ordinary citizens is perhaps dubious in labor parties but otherwise to be expected from national elites and not new.

  248. Thorfinnsson says

    Opposition on this forum to the attack in NZ is not Islamophilia but rather opposition to murder and terrorism.

    Less charitably there is also the fact that our comments are perhaps being collected by counterintelligence services.

  249. I don’t really like it when Europeans use the term “genocide” for themselves because it feels like seeing Africans rolling metal trashcans down a hill and calling it a space program.

    It is obviously a pale imitation of the political ethnocentrism of Jews, like there is no hope of them ever having dozens and dozens of memorials in the center of cities thousands of miles from the event took place, and they realize it. It is purely derivative, like the lynching museum blacks set up. Simultaneously, there’s implicit powerless and admiration in it that seems so unseemly and not befitting people with a proud history.

    Not to mention, it is often so weak-willed a construction, like “I believe X was a genocide. What do you think? ” And to add insult to injury, the people asking are often supercucks who would kiss the ass of the first gay Hindu who wanted to rule over them.

    At the very least, you got to come up with your own non-generic name for it and turn it back against one of the aggressor groups. For instance, Armenians are failing because they don’t have their own word in the English globalist lexicon – even though their target, Turks, is good. Ukrainians are actually doing a pretty good job. Hindus are failing hilariously, but in a way that is almost a brilliant satire on Jews, so I will give them a pass.

    On the other hand, Irish people who ask if the Potato Famine was a genocide, are the worst supercucks. For one thing, rule number one: you don’t pile on against other Europeans. But ethnic rivalry is okay though, if it is sportsmanlike. Bring up massacres sure, but don’t use the word “genocide” so generically that it doesn’t even have an ethnic modifier, and don’t do it with you nose buried in the ass of a gay Hindu.

  250. Byrresheim says

    Retarded it is, it should end asap.

  251. Hyperborean says

    For example, in this forum, almost everyone said they oppose the New Zealand Mosque attack.

    But in the Russian internet – at least popular websites I read – most commentators supported attack on the Mosque New Zealand, and people were getting hundreds of upvotes for supporting it.

    There are a lot of indifferent people in other parts of the English internet, though, such as the chan forums and Breitbart.

    https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.42.39-AM.png

    Total amount of upvotes would probably also be even higher if the deleted comments on Breitbart are included.

    https://dailystormer.name/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-15-at-6.50.52-AM.png

    Probably good that they aren’t directly saying they deserved it, even though it might be a bit on the line anyway. There are lot of people getting arrested for being too enthusiastic and open about their opinions in places like the UK.

  252. Hyperborean says

    President “be fruitful and takeover Europe” Erdoğan (or his secretary) pretends he cares:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/recep-tayyip-erdogan-the-new-zealand-killer-and-the-islamic-state-are-cut-from-the-same-cloth/2019/03/19/

    All at the same time he is inciting Turks at his campaign rallies and promising a repeat of Gallipoli. But that is to be expected from shitty Middle Easterners.

  253. Hyperborean says

    During the recent Dutch provincial and, indirectly, the senate elections the Party for Freedom (PVV) under Geert Wilders went from 9 to 5 seats while the Forum for Democracy (FvD), led by Thierry Baudet, went from 0 to 12/13, equal or slightly larger to the largest party, the cuckservative traitor party VVD.

    This is a very positive development. The PVV has low class associations and often excessively focused on ‘counter-jihad’ nonsense (also well as being completely controlled by Wilders) while the FvD is more identitarian and has higher human quality (IIRC, many of their MPs are intellectuals and classical musicians, etc.)

    Here is Baudet’s speech:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2019/03/populism-triumphs-in-the-netherlands/

    I think it is a good speech, especially for cultural themes like rebirth, criticising ugly architecture, and pledging to purge public television (if they mean to replace personel and not dismantle it).

    The only quibble I have is that the ice age and mammoth-slaying talk is a bit too svidomite.

  254. Hyperborean says

    I forgot to add: Like in neighbouring Germany, the Green Party is growing in popularity as well in Netherlands (in Amsterdam they got a quarter of the vote)

    There hasn’t been much conflict due to the growing polarisation and radicalisation yet but it will most likely become more serious the next 10-15 years.

  255. LondonBob says

    The bombing of civilian areas was always a controversial area, bomber crews only recently received a memorial, I oppose this, and they didn’t receive a campaign medal.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-44255399

    Going back to inhabitants and garrisons being slaughtered after a siege this would act as an incentive to surrender. The rules of war were that is was entirely honourable to surrender when the defender’s position had become untenable. See the surrender of Fort William Henry in The Last of the Mohicans.

  256. German_reader says

    Ukrainians are actually doing a pretty good job.

    I don’t know, does anybody really go on much about the Holodomor narrative except alt-righters, who are only interested in it because they blame it on Jews? Some mainstream historians like Timothy Snyder may allude to parts of it, but that is transparently motivated by anti-Russian animus. On its own, the Ukrainian famine isn’t that interesting to most people.

    Hindus are failing hilariously

    Who did supposedly genocide them? Mahmud of Ghazni? Aurangzeb? Churchill? Well, that wasn’t very successful then, since there are still so many Hindus around.

    I agree with you about use of the term “genocide”, in a way it’s another manifestation of the sickening glorification of victimhood prevalent in Western societies today.

  257. German_reader says

    and they didn’t receive a campaign medal

    That was pretty shabby treatment though, especially given the very high loss rate (almost 50%, iirc about 55 000 in absolute numbers) of Bomber Command’s aircrews.

  258. German_reader says

    The only quibble I have is that the ice age and mammoth-slaying talk is a bit too svidomite.

    The “On this rock, will we build our church” part is a bit much as well, could be seen as almost blasphemous.
    But maybe that sort of quasi-religious talk in politics is needed. Interesting development in any case, seems the Netherlands is similar to Germany, with increasing polarization due to the events since 2015. Unfortunate though that the right is still in a distinct minority position, despite everything that has happened.

  259. It will remain a distinct minority position until the anti-right establishment discredits itself.

  260. Hyperborean says

    Given the previous discussions about Mormons on earlier Open Threads, I thought this longread academic-style article on Mormon ethnography might prove interesting:

    https://www.socialmatter.net/2019/03/13/the-pursuit-of-worthiness-lessons-drawn-from-the-mormon-experience/

  261. Thorfinnsson says

    Dresden was a major center of rail communications as well as optics production. At the time there was growing frustration that seemingly nothing would end the war, and at least in America there was a growing problem with desertion and resistance to conscription. The late war bombings (not just of Dresden) seem very cruel in retrospect, but every day the war continued meant more Allied casualties. Late war raids were also effective in their intended effects. In the early spring of 1945 the Anglo-American bombing campaign for instance caused the complete collapse of the German rail system.

    It wasn’t until well into 1942 that Britain adopted “dehousing” and area bombing as official doctrine of Bomber Command. This largely emerged in response to the wild inaccuracy of night bombing, which itself was an improvisation in response to the fact that daylight raids into occupied Europe resulted in unacceptably high attrition.

    Early in the war all the belligerents largely abided by President Roosevelt’s request to limit bombing to military targets, and even attacking civilian industrial targets in Germany was not permitted (against the wishes of Bomber Command) until the Rotterdam Blitz.

    Germany for its part didn’t initiate large scale bombing of civilian areas (Rotterdam was not intended) until the British bombed Berlin.

    There was actually a very good German heavy bomber (Heinkel 177 Greif), but it was not produced in substantial numbers and had significant teething problems owing to the failure of German high output aero engine development. These failures were themselves the outgrowth of doctrine (heavy bomber was not a priority) and then the exigencies of war (close support and interdiction on the Eastern Front, fighter defenses for the Reich).

    America did refuse to switch to “area bombing”, but shouldn’t be considered as some kind of humane strategic bombing force. Only the lead bomber used precision targeting, as all other bombers had to fly in defensive box organizations for protection from German fighters. The weather was frequently overcast as well, which obviously precluded visual target identification.

  262. German_reader says

    Dresden was a major center of rail communications as well as optics production.

    I know that argument, but even if it were valid for Dresden (and I’m unconvinced), it still leaves lots of other attacks which are difficult to rationalize imo. I doubt there is much of a purely military justification for something like the bombing of Pforzheim (proportionally the worst in the war, since it killed almost a fifth of Pforzheim’s population) on February 23 1945, which is why the debate in the end always gets shifted to a different plane like arguing that it was just punishment for Nazism (which I find a dubious argument for many reasons…even if one regards all Germans at the time as equally guilty and deserving of death, there’s still the substantial number of foreign forced labourers and pows killed by bombing).
    Anyway, my intention was merely to point out one of the reasons why the topic is so emotional, I’m not in favour of a cult of German victimhood about WW2 bombing and find right-wingers who build up Dresden into some huge symbol and use inflated numbers of deaths rather foolish.

    In the early spring of 1945 the Anglo-American bombing campaign for instance caused the complete collapse of the German rail system.

    My impression had been that this was more due to American daylight bombing which specifically targeted communications and transport infrastructure than to the more indiscriminate British effort.
    I’m in agreement with the rest of your comment.

  263. Thorfinnsson says

    Once the decision was made to bomb civilian industry with level bombers at high altitude massive civilian casualties were inescapable. I doubt that anyone in the USAAF actually believed the nonsense about a Norden bombsight being able to put a 500 pound bomb in a pickle barrel from 20,000 feet, though I suppose they believed in all other sorts of nonsense so who knows.

    Pforzheim was both a manufacturing and logistics center. I don’t believe Bomber Command was aware of what was being produced there, but lots of shell fuzes were manufactured there.

    That said, since just about all economic activity supported the German war effort, one could contrive a military justification for bombing just about anything. The Allies could’ve deliberately bombed grain silos or even hospitals with military justification. They would’ve had to machine gun pensioners to do something without a military benefit (and no doubt you’d find people to justify that on morale grounds).

    Bomber Command was also part of the effective campaign against the German transportation network. Many viaducts, tunnels, and bridges were attacked by Lancasters dropping Grand Slam bombs which could not be employed by American bombers.

  264. LondonBob says

    The ‘Dehousing’ policy was the brainchild of Frederick Lindemann, similarly Morgenthau was advocating the Morgenthau plan for Germany in the Roosevelt administration.

    As for recognising the bomber crews I oppose, that generation knew best and I find it a sad reflection of today’s society that we know better and that we lack the morality to understand why this was a contentious issue.

  265. reiner Tor says

    Thousands were evacuated in New Zealand over the horrible threat posed by an alleged far right tattoo. Security personnel quickly defused the danger by evacuating all and then establishing that the tattoo was just a normal ordinary tattoo. Incredibly, all involved survived.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/111507831/wellingtons-homegrown-festival-reportedly-evacuated

  266. reiner Tor says

    In the meantime, to the great surprise of the Hungarian public, the Hungarian national football team is still very far from the European elite. Among the five sides in our group (Croatia, Wales, Slovakia, Hungary, Azerbaijan), Hungary is easily the fourth by any metric. But for some reason people got extremely disappointed when we failed to beat the much stronger Slovak side. I don’t know what will happen now that the Croats are going to beat us without even trying too hard. Apparently many people were expecting some kind of miracle.

    EDIT: miracles might be possible? We just equalized.

  267. for-the-record says

    Not a great surprise, I imagine. Who will be next?

    Romania announces plans to move embassy to Jerusalem

    Romanian Prime Minister Viorica Dăncilă announced plans Sunday to relocate her nation’s embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, following a similar announcement by Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez.

    Speaking at the annual American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference in Washington DC Sunday morning, Dăncilă said that her government would relocate Romania’s embassy to the Israeli capital city.

    “I am pleased to announce today, in front of this AIPAC audience…I as Prime Minster of Romania, and the government that I run, will move our embassy to Jerusalem, the capital of the State of Israel.”

    “I can promise you this: Romania will remain the same loyal friend and the strongest European voice in support of the Jewish people and the State of Israel.”

    Education Minister Naftali Bennett (New Right) thanked the Romanian premier, tweeting that her announcement “warmed our hearts”.

  268. Speaking at the annual American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference in Washington DC Sunday morning, Dăncilă said that her government would relocate Romania’s embassy to the Israeli capital city.

    “I am pleased to announce today, in front of this AIPAC audience…I as Prime Minster of Romania, and the government that I run, will move our embassy to Jerusalem, the capital of the State of Israel.”

    WTH? What is a European top politician doing there?

  269. Didn’t expect Romania to be such a Zionist stronghold.

    Romania would become the first European Union country to make the move, which has already been done by the United States and Guatemala. The Prime Minister of Honduras and President of Cabo Verde also announced at the conference that they would open embassies in Jerusalem.

    Dăncilă, who also currently holds the rotating presidency of the EU Council, pledged to defend the Jewish state in the European Union.

    She also announced three new government initiatives: Citizenship for descendants of Jewish Romanians who were forced to renounce their citizenship when they left the country under the communist regime, a new compensation program for Holocaust survivors, and promising to open the government archives to specialists from the Federation of Jewish Communities in Romaina “in order to know the truth about their past during the two world wars.”

    Read more: https://forward.com/fast-forward/421411/romania-announces-it-will-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/

  270. Croatia’s overrated. Ridiculous amount of luck on WC, from Argentina game all the way through 0 victories in knock-0ut phases during regular game time. 2 penalty shootouts, one overtime win (vs. England), and avoided Brazil and Belgium in the draw.

  271. reiner Tor says

    It certainly appears so, based on today’s match.

  272. It was the only Warsaw Pact nation which continued to have formal relations with the Jewish state after the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.

    Not that Romanians en masse are known for being particularly fond of Jews.

  273. Pozzed Leipzig Book Fair 2019

    At the Sino-Russian periphery of Hall 4

    https://abload.de/img/dsc_0021_2fmjsz.jpg

  274. Those comments are not supporting the attack though.

    Also Breitbart is a website, which is very critical of Muslim immigration.

    Breitbart website is semi-Israeli American, and was possibly established in Netanyahu’s office? at least I read an article there suggesting that.

    In any case, Breitbart not representative of normal English speaking netizens.

    I felt like the internet culture clash, was very large on that topic. Most commentators on some liberal, educated, websites I read, were supporting the attack and joking about the video. .

  275. Romania has externally a very Christian identity (although probably not very religious in reality?), so I guess Israel/Palestine would probably have some symbolic significance there.

    Also Israel has guest worker programs with Romania. So a lot of cleaners, carers of old people, and workers with jobs like constructing roads in Israel, are legal Romanian immigrants which were longtime guestworkers in Israel – probably more from the 1990s when Romania was not in the EU.

  276. May we all be forgiven for what we do.

    What is your view about allegations – perhaps exaggerated – saying there is an “apartheid system” in Latvia today?

  277. It’s interesting how AP shits so much on Anglo countries for their role in defeating Nazi Germany.

    All I did was state that the deliberate targeting and bombing of German civilians areas was a crime.

    Are you suggesting that this terror bombing characterized the Anglo-American role in defeating Germany? I wouldn’t.

    His fellow Ukrainians in Canada, who missed out on communism, the Holodomor, and WW2 thanks to Anglo-Canadian generosity, spent most of the last century LEADING the campaign to demoralise and delegitimise the very existence of Anglo-Saxon Canada.

    Look to the UK to see what Canada would have been like without Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians etc. Unfortunately, the Anglo-Saxons specialize in getting themselves replaced by Pakistanis and Nigerians. I guess Canadian ones left to their own devices would take in Jamaicans also.

    You should be grateful that thanks to Ukrainians and those like them, Canada is still nearly 80% of European origin.

    Apparently Ukrainians in Australia were also big proponents of turning Australia from an Anglo to a multiculti society

    There were about 30,000 of them in Australia. If you think they impacted anything there..

    because I had a good time in Lviv in January and I’d hate to think the locals, who seemed so nice, are privately as filled with hatred towards every other nationality as he is.

    LOL. I stated it was a crime to bomb civilians. To you this makes me “full of hatred towards every other nationality.” Paranoia.

  278. Romania has externally a very Christian identity (although probably not very religious in reality?), so I guess Israel/Palestine would probably have some symbolic significance there.

    Also Israel has guest worker programs with Romania. So a lot of cleaners, carers of old people, and workers with jobs like constructing roads in Israel, are legal Romanian immigrants which were longtime guestworkers in Israel – probably more from the 1990s when Romania was not in the EU.

    A good number of Jews with roots in Romania, combined with my earlier point on Romania being the only Warsaw Pact country to not break diplomatic relations with the Jewish state, after the start of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.

    Ceaușescu was somewhat of a foreign policy Titoist. Recall Romania being the only Warsaw Pact country to attend the 1984 LA Summer Olympics. At the height of the Sino-Soviet dispute, a high level Chinese delegation visited Romania and Yugoslavia.

    The announced Romanian recognition regarding Jerusalem seems like a calculated attempt to curry greater favor with the US and Israel – with the belief that any backlash will be limited.

  279. Duke of Qin says

    A little late to respond Karlin,but I would recommend getting a used gtx 1070 (roughly equivalent performance to those 2 cards) or even a gtx 1080 if you felt like an upgrade. There probably should still be some stock of used cards that were used in Mining. Normally mining cards, despite being used 24/7 are actually undervolted and underclocked to maximize efficiency per watt so they actually have less issues that normal used cards which go through larger thermal cycles of gameplay running them hot and cooling down. If your friend could scavenge those other parts, surely he can dig up a used gtx 10 series card, though this would depend on the pricing dynamics of used cards in Russia.

    The rtx 20 series is a giant waste of money, as the price/performance ratio was a big step sideways compared to the previous gen as the useless die space taken up by dedicated ray tracing is going to waste. For anyone else considering upgrading, I would hold off until the 10/7nm cards show up later this year or the start of next. Considering how moore’s law is basically over now, the next and last likely die shrink isnt coming until 2025 so you will be set for a long time with the upcoming generation.

  280. Pakistan has several missiles with names that must irritate Indians. Ghaznavi, Babur, Ghauri. They can also be designated by using “Hatf” (the name of Muhammad’s sword or lance) and a number.

    One of their longer range missiles is named “Abadeel” which means “swallow .”. But even that is thought to be a closeted reference to India, since it is thought to refer to birds who supposedly dropped stones on war elephants threatening the Kaaba in pre-Islamic times.

    Too bad that Britain doesn’t have Churchill tanks anymore, but maybe that would only get the goat of Indians and not Pakis. Maybe, they could name some weapon after Cecil Rhodes, closeted gay though he was, to annoy Africans.

  281. There is also lot of tourism from Romania to Israel (mainly pilgrims, because Romania is externally quite a Christian country).

    In per capita terms, I believe Ukrainians and Romanians are probably the most frequent visitors to Israel of any countries in the world. (Ukrainians are the most frequent tourists to Israel per capita, but I am not interested enough to do the actual calculations).

    Number of total tourists to Israel by country ranked for 2018 was something like.

    1. USA
    2. Russia
    3. France
    4. Ukraine
    5. Germany
    6. UK
    7. China
      8 Romania
    8. Poland
  282. In per capita terms, I believe Ukrainians and Romanians are probably the most frequent visitors to Israel of any countries in the world. (Ukrainians are the most frequent tourists to Israel per capita, but I am not interested enough to do the actual calculations).

    ^Sorry ignore this comment, it is nonsense.

    Highest per capita nationality who are visiting Israel by far are Lithuanians. Then Swiss, Romanians and Ukrainians, will be around the same level, behind Lithuanians.

  283. I’m not sure though how important ethnic considerations were for repression of Germans in the Soviet Union before WW2, much of it may rather have been class-based…wealthy, religious peasants were seen as enemies by the communists in general, no matter their ethnic origin.

    I will quote Solzhenitsyn here:

    “Then there was the wave of Germans-Germans living on the Volga, colonists in the Ukraine and the North Caucasus, and all Germans in general who lived anywhere in the Soviet Union. The determining factor here was blood, and even heroes in the Civil War and old members of the Party were sent off into exile”

    From “The Gulag Archipelago”, pg. 78, volume 1.

    This seems to be referring to the period before 1941.

    I’m somewhat opposed to over-use of the term “genocide” in general, because often it’s merely used as a polemical attempt meant to evoke associations with the Nazi genocide of the Jews

    Agree

    (which was a fairly distinctive, possibly singular, event that isn’t easily paralleled)

    Disagree, it seems to me that both the Armenian genocide and the treatment of the Germans at the hands of the communist regimes are easily comparable to the holocaust in both scale and nature.

    I doubt though that it would elucidate the issue or contribute anything positive to Polish-German relations.

    I agree with you that re-litigating the issue is pointless, and it isn’t my intention to do so. I’m definitely not arguing this point due to revanchism. However, I still don’t really see how it (the abuses and deportations of the Germans) can be considered anything other than a massive crime.

  284. Hyperborean says

    For future reference, does anyone know of good bookstores for history, literature, etc. books in London?

    I usually just buy books at Waterstones and Foyles when I am there, but I would like to know if there is a interesting selection of books somewhere that I have missed.

  285. Canada is undergoing an extremely rapid demographic transformation. It will become majority non-white.

    The prescence of peripheral Europeans has nothing to do with immigration policy. Just because Poles in Poland don’t like immigration doesn’t mean that they form some kind of anti-immigration bloc in the diaspora.

    Peripheral Europeans don’t have some right to societies built by Northern Europeans. They’re decent people, but they can’t exactly build the kind of societies Northern Europeans do, not to mention the whole Euromutt phenomenon is damaging to any kind of rooted identity. Even as a Russophile I feel ambivalent hearing Russian in the street in a city built by Germans and Scandinavians, that should have been left to their descendants. But of course there are more pressing matters now.

  286. I’m not exactly sympathetic to Latvia, but Russians in the Baltics should learn the local languages, which I believe is the main barrier to citizenship.

    Apartheid was a good thing by the way.

  287. reiner Tor says

    The other barrier is that many already have Russian passports. Again, the comparison to apartheid is pretty dubious.

  288. reiner Tor says

    you were calling people like myself, who didn’t share your political opinions, “autistic normies”

    Why the plural? I only called you an autistic normie, did I call anyone else that?

    “normies” is the term used by people with autistic spectrum disorders to refer to non-autistic people.

    What?

    Regarding the rest.

    Obviously people tend to believe in things which are good for them. Minorities will believe that granting minority rights is morally superior to encouraging assimilation.

    People will explicitly use such utilitarian arguments, even if they have no relevance to the question at hand. For example religious people will often cite the numerous studies about religious people being happier, with more children, lower suicide rates, etc. Hungarian leftists regularly use arguments that multiculturalism would be good for the Hungarian minorities, who would benefit from minority rights etc.

    That’s not “cynicism.” People are not very self-aware, and they will sincerely believe in their ideologies. So poor people will sincerely believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they will slowly tend to a belief in the magical powers of low taxes and free markets. There will certainly be a lag: people will keep their beliefs longer than they serve them. But they tend to beliefs which serve them. (More idealistic people less so. It’s a tendency, a stochastic rule.)

    Jews, of course, explicitly use the argument that multiculturalism is good for Jews. They will use it when arguing with non-Jews, which shows that they are not totally aware of the fact that it’s not really an argument, and for a gentile, it’s not even a fallacious pseudo-argument.

    Marx’s comments notwithstanding, Jews (a very large proportion of them) perceived Marxism and then Bolshevism to be good for Jews as an ethnic group. So they tended to move there. And objectively speaking, in the decade after 1917, Bolshevism was indeed beneficial to Soviet Jews. However, things changed. Jews in general still considered Bolshevism to be good for them well into the 1950s, by which time it was no longer the case.

    So, perception lagged reality. Ideologies have staying power. Who would have thought?

    Anyway, Jews tend to move to ideologies which they perceive to be good for them. They perceive ideologies to be good for them if they were objectively good for them in the recent past. There is some delay in perception, and ideologies have some staying power for a long time even beyond that, especially among the more committed adherents.

    I’m not sure it’s productive to continue this.

  289. Look to the UK to see what Canada would have been like without Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Poles, Hungarians etc.

    Canada is worse than Britain though

  290. Hyperborean says

    The other barrier is that many already have Russian passports. Again, the comparison to apartheid is pretty dubious.

    Seems this is not quite accurate.

    From wikipedia, which cites the 2017 Latvian government statistics:

    Citizens of Latvia (1,788,710) – 84.48%

    Non-citizens of Latvia (237,759) – 11.23%

    Citizens of Russia (54,998) – 2.60%

    Others, mainly citizens of other countries (35,916) – 1.70%

    Latvian Non-citizens have 90 days within 180 days Schengen visa and Russian visa and then a few Latin American and other minor countries.

    Latvian citizens in contrast have access to over 150-ish countries if one excludes the Schengen region.

    Estonian non-citizens have similar limited visa access as Latvian non-citizens.

    Estonian Non-citizens are around 6-8% of the population (although it was 40% at independence), around an equal amount are citizens of foreign countries (mainly Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine). I don’t know many emigrated compared to being naturalised.

    After legal changes Non-citizen children born at independence in Estonia and Latvia are able to obtain citizenship.


    My own opinion is, if the Latvians and Estonians wish to solve their Russian problem then they should advocate for freedom for movement in Schengen area for non-citizens.

    I think many Baltic Russian-speakers would mind less if they were able to go to Germany.

  291. Hyperborean says

    Marx’s comments notwithstanding, Jews (a very large proportion of them) perceived Marxism and then Bolshevism to be good for Jews as an ethnic group. So they tended to move there. And objectively speaking, in the decade after 1917, Bolshevism was indeed beneficial to Soviet Jews. However, things changed. Jews in general still considered Bolshevism to be good for them well into the 1950s, by which time it was no longer the case.

    So, perception lagged reality. Ideologies have staying power. Who would have thought?

    While there are a few decades during which there is a transition, I think it is notable that once they noticed many American Jewish “reformed” Bolshevists (typically Trotskyists) became the fiercest enemies of the Soviet Union (although I think the Soviet leadership was never quite able to completely grasp quite the extent of the ethnic element).

  292. Grahamsno(G64) says

    Artillery Directorate Chief Grigory Kulik,

    Stalin had Kulik’s wife kidnapped and shot, he also had his chief of staff’s wife shot and Molotov’s wife narrowly escaped being shot and many other high ranking officials wives were shot. None of these guys dared protest Stalin was the boss from hell probably the worst boss in history he used to regularly humiliate Kruschev by emptying his pipe on his bald head!

  293. A follow-up asks a % breakdown of Jews and non-Jews from each of these countries?

  294. Grahamsno(G64) says

    French and Dutch national railways accepted to pay reparations (in the case of the SNCF

    It is a very sweet deal in the case of SNCF

    Those who are heirs of survivors or spouses who died shortly after 1948 will get less than those who died in 2014. For instance, heirs of a survivor who died in 2014 will receive about $400,000.

    Adele Weltmann, 85, of Aventura, Fla., told The Jewish Week that she has collected from both the Orphans Fund and from the latest French reparation fund. She said that although both of her parents were transported by the French railroad to Nazi concentration camps, only her father was killed; her mother survived and lived until 1982.

    No business like the Shoah business

    https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/questions-over-fairness-of-new-french-reparations/

  295. Grahamsno(G64) says

    Reminds me: the Swedish Migration Board has, in theory, opened up Sweden to all Chinese Uyghurs. There are about 11 million.

    The Chinese should just call their bluff and deport all 11 million of them to Sweden, a win, win situation the Chinese get rid of a troublesome minority and Sweden finally gets it chance to become the Islamic Emirate of Sweden. Hypercuckery in action.

  296. Grahamsno(G64) says

    She’s also raising a bastard. I can’t stand women who voluntarily raise bastards. It tells you how degenerate the west is that this fact wasn’t even noticed something unthinkable outside the west – a female head of State raising a bastard!

  297. Hyperborean says

    While I don’t really disagree with the sentiment, how does this immigration chart prove that? IIRC, Canadians in the pre-WWI period were already beginning to diverge from the UK (more so than Australia and NZ where immigration was primarily Anglo-Celtic) due to non-British immigration from Europe.

  298. for-the-record says

    In defense of the oft-criticized Ukrainians . . .

    World-Low 9% of Ukrainians Confident in Government

    In the lead-up to the presidential election on March 31, Ukrainians go to the polls with less faith in their government than is true for any other electorate in the world. Just 9% of residents have confidence in the national government, the lowest confidence level in the world for the second straight year. This is far below the regional median for former Soviet states (48%) as well as the global average (56%) in 2018. . . Just 12% of adults in Ukraine in 2018 said they have confidence in the honesty of elections, representing a decline from the 26% who held this sentiment in 2014, indicating growing distrust toward the electoral system in the country.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/247976/world-low-ukrainians-confident-government.aspx

  299. Grahamsno(G64) says

    From your link;

    In the majority of Jewish heirless property matters there is a lack of documents providing even indirect information about the property and its owners (or their relatives). In some regions, pre-war land and mortgage registers were completely destroyed during the war. Additionally, civil status records for the Jewish community in many cities and regions were completely destroyed. There is also no chance of finding death certificates of Jewish property owners, especially those murdered in concentration camps; such documents were often never issued. Frequently there are no documents or witnesses who could provide even indirect confirmation that a particular individual or family was transported to a concentration camp or other location.

    Oh boy conditions for the perfect Scam, this’s basically a blank Cheque the Poles are royally screwed. The Germans already payed them for the atrocities committed in Poland and now the Poles who didn’t even have a government have to pay them. And the Jews wonder why they are universally reviled.

  300. Canada is undergoing an extremely rapid demographic transformation. It will become majority non-white.

    My point is that this process would have been much faster had Ukrainians, Italians and other non-Anglos not come to Canada en masse.

    The prescence of peripheral Europeans has nothing to do with immigration policy. Just because Poles in Poland don’t like immigration doesn’t mean that they form some kind of anti-immigration bloc in the diaspora.

    There is a diaspora Ukrainian in the current Canadian (Liberal) government however most Ukrainians vote Conservative in Canada and tend to oppose non-European immigration.

    Peripheral Europeans don’t have some right to societies built by Northern Europeans.

    On this, I agree. Canada was fairly unsettled when the Ukrainians arrived; they found virgin lands in the west and turned them into prosperous farms.

  301. Grahamsno(G64) says

    Long time back when you could comment on all topics in the Guardian I asked a question about the cost/benefit analysis of mass Muslim migration to the west, I pointed out that on the cost side I saw a rapidly growing mound of dead bodies and I said that the benefits would have to be extraordinary to justify the cost could someone just point out the benefit to me as I seemed to have missed it. Complete silence but the comment was allowed to stand.

    Allowing Muslim mass migration to any non Muslim society is literally suicidally stupid.

  302. They also got many of the wrong kind of non-British immigrants from Europe whose descendants were opposed to the Anglo-French culture of Canada.

    No one noticed as this train left the station where it was heading. In the train wreck that is multiculturalism in Canada, Pierre Trudeau has to take pride of place. It was the above cited on Oct. 8, 1971 on presenting the fourth report of the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism, which created Canada’s policy of multiculturalism.

    But even a clever and willful prime minister can’t act on his own. Trudeau was supported encouraged and prodded by others who wanted to do away with French and English culture and replace it with a mosaic, including their own. Who were these “guilty men” who played a part in ruining the country?

    I’ve found one answer in an article in the Canadian Ethnic Studies Journal by Julia Lalande. After giving some background on the reasons for the B&B commission, she moves to the role of the Ukrainian community in Canada, which was beginning to flex its muscles.

    The problem for the Ukrainians about the Biculturalism commission, she says, was that it was about biculturalism:

    Many groups that were part of the third force (the most vocal of which was the Ukrainian-Canadian community) were exasperated by the commission’s focus on bilingualism, but talk of biculturalism frustrated them even more.

    To change the focus, the Ukrainians started a massive lobbying campaign to open biculturalism up and convert it, holus bolus into multiculturalism.

    For Ukrainian Canadians, the early years of the discussion on multiculturalism coincided with the seventy-fifth anniversary of Ukrainian settlement in Canada in 1966. By this time, Ukrainians had evolved into a strong community very much interested in the preservation of its language and traditions. In the 1960s, this concern with conserving their culture was expressed in their strenuous involvement in the multiculturalism debate. For example, Ukrainians made the most submissions to the B&B Commission, and they actively discussed the issue in the community and in their newspapers. Their submissions to the hearings of the B&B Commission, letters to politicians, speeches and addresses, as well as resolutions at community meetings offer insight into their position. The ideas — one could even call them demands — outlined in these sources can be classified into demands for participation, recognition, and equality.

    This lobbying campaign must be what Heritage Canada describes as “many, particularly from Western Canada, mounted a campaign for recognition” without naming the “many” it refers to.

    https://www.eurocanadian.ca/2014/08/origins-of-multiculturalism-in-canada-the-ukrainian-connection.html

  303. Thorfinnsson says

    Canadian Anglos created racially restrictionist immigration legislation before the war just like Anglos in Australia and America did.

    In all three countries this was dismantled in the generation after the war.

    I agree that singling out Ukrainian-Canadians is silly. There was the matter of how the war itself radically transformed attitudes for the worse, and with respect to Canada in particular obviously French-Canadians were much more invested in pushing multiculturalism (a policy formally enacted by the current PM’s father).

    They did play some role–a recurring problem with non-foundational populations is a tendency to interpret restrictionist legislation as a personal insult. Fortunately this tendency typically fades as the generations pass with everyone other than the Jews.

  304. Konstantin says

    It’s not widely known as well that Germany had advanced TV network, including broadcasting of 1936 Olympics and even soccer matches for wounded soldiers in hospitals during WWII. Extremely efficient media propagandists like Goebbels would’ve ensured 3rd Reich media domination in the post-war world.

  305. Konstantin says

    They shouldn’t as they started to settle in the area pretty much at the same time as latvians

  306. German_reader says

    iirc Goebbels disliked television, he thought it wasn’t as suitable for propaganda as cinema.
    But yes, there were some early television programmes in 1930s Germany:

    from 0.52 onwards there’s a “comedian” joking about Konzertlager.

  307. No doubt, he would change his mind today, if he understood any number of factors.

    The history of TV with regard to the Overton window. The global reach of a show like”Hercules” or “Baywatch.” The effect of American television shows like “Dallas” on communist Eastern Europe. Streaming. High definition. The widescreen aspect ratio of modern TVs. Not to mention, the budget of shows like “Game of Thrones”, about $15 million per episode.

    At least, as a vehicle for promulgating leftist politics, it seems pretty effective. Perhaps, the reverse would not be true.

  308. The Trudeaus should have been sent into the diamond mines of Nanavut and fed the nutritious byproducts of the seal harvest.

  309. Why the plural? I only called you an autistic normie, did I call anyone else that?

    I’ve seen you refer to yourself as this, which is a good sign, since it shows some self-awareness. Normie brain does not chase their own tail on endless strange conspiracy theories. This makes your comments entertaining, so when you start projecting and then attacking autism it seems like you are engaging in self-hatred.

    I like your comments generally, but you need people point out your blindspots and overliteralism.

    people tend to believe in things which are good for them.

    Of course, the ideologies can be more attractive to some demographics for this reason.

    But to reduce the reason people believed Marxism to “Jewish racial self-interest”, is nonsense.
    You’ll have to explain all non-Jews, from Engels or Lenin, or China, et al, had some separate reason for believing Marxism.

    If people believe everything for racial self-interest, why are there so many liberals today who want to punish their own races.

    Also there is the fact for Marxism, that Marxism wanted to dissolve Jews as a separate nationality, and was largely successful to do that where it was an official ideology. Moreover, Jews which believed Marxism, usually did not have group identity as Jews, and were effectively acolytes of a new religion. Marx himself had an attitude to Jews like Ron Unz on here.

  310. Remember there is a lot of difference of Ukrainians who emigrate to Canada at least since the 1990s-2018, and Canadians who were descended from some kind of Second World War refugees.

    Ukrainians which emigrated from 1990s-2018 to Canada, are Ukrainian people in the sense we understand. (And a lot of them identify, kind of accurately, as Russians-Canadians).

    If you go to highschool in Ukraine/USSR, then they will be “Ukrainian-Canadian” in meaningful sense.

    People and their descendants which emigrated from Second World War.: will be more Canadians of Ukrainian ancestry or blood. The soul and culture is more like any other born Canadians.

  311. Thorfinnsson says

    Engels was a sex-crazed degenerate and Lenin was a one man coalition of the fringes (German, Swedish, Kalmyk, Jewish) to use Steve Sailer’s term.

    A major common denominator today with ethnomasochistic (John Derbyshire’s term) white liberals who seek to punish or even eradicate the white race itself is weakness. If you look at the physiognomy of white liberals they are usually fundamentally weak people. The men are effeminate and the women ugly.

    Thus they are engaged in virtue signalling. Instead of advocating directly for their interests they seek to bolster their social status and occupational success by loudly repeating dominant, high-status social norms.

  312. Hoyer is a dinosaur. He will turn 80, this year, if he is lucky. But there are at least three people older than him in the House, including Maxine Waters, though none are record holders. He is older than Pelosi.

    Starting in 1962, he was on the staff of Senator Brewster, along with Pelosi. They have been in Washington before the decline of the US even started (at least, if you take the short view of 1965 being the staring point.) That is really quite amazing to think about – and in all that time, they have only become more successful.

  313. Lenin was a one man coalition of the fringes

    Lenin had a lot of mixed blood in his family tree. No-one in Russia of the time, nor Lenin himself, would perceive Lenin in terms like that though.

    He did not belong to any “minority” nationality or culture. He was a nationally Russian, middle class dude. Perhaps having mixed, incompatible blood has unconsciously influenced his psychology though. But in the conscious sphere, this was not part of his identity or a conscious motive for his fanatical life.

    The problem with Lenin is that his psychology, was a bit like Osama bin Laden.

    major common denominator today with ethnomasochistic (John Derbyshire’s term) white liberals who seek to punish or even eradicate the white race itself is weakness.

    Of course, and as in your example, self-interest, and not even economic self-interest, let alone racial self-interest, can not explain common political behaviours.

    Marx and Marxism’s attitude to Jews and Judaism, is not unlike Ron Unz on here. He saw Jews a problem and fundamental obstacle, and wanted to remove and dissolve Jews as a separate people as a precondition for communism.

    But Marxism was a very seductive religion, which passionately believed, often in support of self-interest, but also sometimes against self interest. For Jews, it was useful of course, Marxism was useful a offering a path to dissolve their separate identity and assimilate to universal society.

    But in fact, many bourgeois people seduced by Marxism, even as it would mean loss of their fortunes. Marxism was something seductive, even when it contradicts all your self-interest.

    The best dismantling of Marxism as an actual belief system (and this – in the world of philosophy – is where ideology has to actually be defeated) were not written until after 1917, unfortunately.

  314. deport all 11 million of them to Sweden, a win, win situation the Chinese get rid of a troublesome minority and Sweden finally gets it chance to become the Islamic Emirate of Sweden. Hypercuckery in action.

    The leader of the ‘Center’ party (quasi-libertarian virtue signallers), a red-headed woman, has claimed on TV that 30 million immigrants is fine. Now part of the center-left government, hooray.

  315. An awful lot of leading Bolsheviks were married to Jewish women too

  316. Waterstones bought up most of the old giants, but the stores are still around.

    Apart from Foyle’s, I’ve always enjoyed Hatchards (very near Fortnum & Masons), and also recommend a visit to Waterstones Gower Street, near UCL. I’d also recommend looking through https://www.abebooks.co.uk/ and see if there are any interesting antiquarians to visit.

  317. Waterstones

    I think the version of these bookshops in London with the nicest and most spacious atmosphere for reading inside, at least for tourists (I don’t think the books are different though), is the Piccadilly version (opposite side of street than Yoshino Restaurant).

  318. Hyperborean says

    Thanks.

  319. And large and spacious Piccadilly Waterstones, with a restaurant with a nice view in the top (and some different language books, like Russian, if you are interested), is next to the small Hatchards. So if you buy a book in the latter, can read it in the former.

  320. The London Review of Books shop is also not bad

  321. Do you mean that huge skyscraper-like bookstore? I think it used to be named Simpsons before it was sold.

    Note that the books are not necessarily the same for the ‘name level stores’. For example, the Gower Street store is more of an academic bookshop, as hinted by its location. Many many shelves of obscure graduate textbooks to go through if you like me enjoy that sort of thing. (Similar to Foyle’s in this respect.) Likewise, I’ve found some rare releases in Hatchards that I’ve never seen anywhere else.

    I haven’t visited London in quite a while so things may admittedly have changed. Still worth a look IMO.

    Speaking of antiquarians in London, here is one I’ve wanted to visit: https://www.maggs.com/
    Depends on your level of commitment though.

  322. Socialist bookshop near British Museum, is disgusting though. It’s only books supporting Chavez, trade unions, Chomsky and Allende. They have the same trash sold by Waterstones, but imagine concentrating it all into a very small building.

  323. Do you mean that huge skyscraper-like bookstore

    Yes I think so. It’s the multistory Waterstones opposite side of Piccadilly from Yoshino restaurant (next to Fortnam and Mason, Hatchards).

    The only difference about the books, is maybe the Russian language books they have. Otherwise, I guess it’s probably the same book selection as other versions of Waterstones.

    But atmosphere of this spacious 1930s building is the nicest for reading in London I think.

    Gower Street store is more of an academic bookshop, as hinted by its location. Many many shelves of obscure graduate textbooks

    I’ve visited as well, although it was years in the past. I don’t think it’s such a pleasant space inside. But yes, I think you can be right there is a lot of selection there and perhaps technical books .

  324. Well, maybe Western countries can straight up offer them residence?

    No, Germany is not in the cards for the remaining non-citizens as most of them are too attached to the Baltic states or neighboring countries like Belarus. Some of them deliberately do not take out the passport to be able to travel east without a visa to see their relatives. Those who wanted to go to the West already got the passport in 2004 (slightly questionable MO, lol, but ok, let’s not nitpick). No, for them moving West doesn’t make sense, they have their Russophone friend and family network, paid out apartments, they don’t want to be uprooted, learn English, pay exorbitant rents in the West, forget it. Moving is not that easy past age 35 or so.

  325. Hyperborean says

    Well, then I suppose there is not an easy solution.

    Also, what’s your answer to Dmitry’s question:

    What is your view about allegations – perhaps exaggerated – saying there is an “apartheid system” in Latvia today?

  326. Re: recent wave of Ukrainian immigrants.

    While I agree that N.Euros and E.Euros are not entitled to each others’ space, population, any other resource (and btw N.Euro, Anglo American societies while certainly well cultivated are far from perfect – too much OCD, industry related allergies, obsession with process (taking it too far, that is), physical issues such as lack of robustness among the swpl, that most E.Euros typically don’t have), Americans are very lucky that Ukrainians are coming. I know this might offend as you want from the Isles or Iceland but they are the last Europeans who will be coming. They are also more fertile. Other than very small towns and farming communities the shortage of white kids is visible. Cops are leaving cities because it’s a raw deal for them. The American carnage continues… 🙁

    But the Ukes will become cops and caretakers. That’s a loss for Ukraine, and a gain for the US, even if you don’t feel that way.

  327. Ofc, they didn’t. Be careful, dear, people here read anthropology occasionally. If you meant the Wends, nobody knows who they were, could’ve been a coastal Finnic people, nobody’s seen them and they don’t count. If you meant the Ruyan, then yes great people but closer to Polish or even ancient Prussian than Russian. And they lived in Prussia or Germany.

    Russians other than Old Believers who are very different from modern Russians and who were perfectly integrated already during the 1930’s don’t have deep roots in the Baltics. They are very recent arrivals, some as recent as the late 1980s, 90s and later. Most graves are very recent, too.

  328. Thorfinnsson says

    Roosh’s eulogy for his deceased sister: http://www.rooshv.com/eulogy

  329. America should have remained an essentially Northern European protestant country, as should have Canada. A lot of harm would have been avoided had they done so. People forget the low level ethnic warfare that existed between different groups of European-Americans for well over a century. We did overcome it eventually, but the resulting Euromutt white identity was a prelude to a totally civic identity.

    I’m not a fool though, that ship has sailed long ago. I would take ten million Ukrainians if it meant I didn’t have to deal with Somalians at my doorstep. Though even that would not make a lick of difference. America doesn’t belong to anyone anymore. It’s a marketplace where people like AP can makes lots of money and keep their rooted old world identity while the founding stock of the country is largely left in the dust.

  330. Lol how can you say AP anything less than a perfect American in what he writes online? He believes in free market capitalism, private medical insurance and the resurrection of Jesus.

  331. Hyperborean says

    Lol how can you say AP anything less than a perfect American in what he writes online? He believes in free market capitalism, private medical insurance and the resurrection of Jesus.

    That is what defines America, then America is an abomination that needs to be abolished.

  332. Hyperborean says

    That is what defines America, then America is an abomination that needs to be abolished.

    It is common here to mock nostalgia-filled Sovoks, but the longer titular Americans dream of a world they lost a long time ago, the worse the harder it will be for them in the future to organise productively.

  333. reiner Tor says

    I don’t think it’s a productive conversation. Have a nice Tuesday!

  334. Hyperborean says

    Our current “leaders” are pathetic, but hopefully the next leaders in Europe over the next decades will heed this advice from our supposed enemies who are more realistic:

    How can the bloc be more united? First, the EU needs to assert its independence. Sometimes, taking into account the collective interest, Europe has to yield or partly yield to Washington’s requests which they don’t like.

    During the US-led invasion of Iraq, France and Germany opposed the US. Consequently, Washington broke with the two countries and labeled them as “Old Europe.” The US also formed a coalition with the UK and mustered “New Europe” to teach France and Germany a lesson in diplomacy.

    Another weak point is Europe is too dependent on the US on security and is constrained by NATO. The EU’s independence can’t be realized if it is dependent on security.

    Third, it seems that Europe and the US share the same ideology. However, the truth is, they don’t. Too much US national interests have been plugged into Western ideology, where the interests of Europe are marginalized. Hence, the so-called universal values of the West actually represent what the US wants.

    Europe has become numb under the rule of the US, but some Europeans are sensitive to China’s rise, claiming China is challenging the strategic interests of Europe. They don’t dare to provoke Washington, so they use Beijing as an excuse for Europe’s problems.

    Germany sells more cars in China than in the US. Beijing didn’t set extra limits on top of existing rules, but continued to reduce tariffs on them. China has never demanded that Germany and Russia stop building natural gas pipelines or requested EU companies to quit Iran. It is the US which is doing that kind of thing.

    The EU can compete with the US in economy and technology, but some want to maintain the EU’s secondary status by excluding China. Either the EU forges ahead or will fall behind. Suppressing China won’t bring the EU a promising future.

    The world is changing, and the EU should identify its problems and make strategic adjustments. US interests are rooted in Western opinion. The EU shouldn’t be guided by such opinion, or it will get lost.

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1143407.shtml

  335. reiner Tor says

    The vast majority of communist believers were underdogs, who hoped that their (or their groups’) positions would improve under the coming communist utopia. This is true of the majority of communists (who were poor), and some more elite third world leaders (though communist leaders were usually at best middle class). Jews fit this pattern to an extent, but economically speaking they were already top dogs.

    It’s often asserted that Jewish communists never had a Jewish identity, but it’s often difficult to tell, because Jews don’t tell others about their identity. (Nor do they necessarily have the self-awareness to know it themselves if they are motivated by their ethnic identity.) For example Molotov’s wife showed zero signs of a Jewish identity, until she met Golda Meyersson (later Meir) in 1948 and immediately broke in tears. The Moscow synagogue was swarmed by a crowd of Jews several times its capacity when she arrived there – presumably this included any number of Jews who had previously never shown a sign of Jewish ethnic identity. Voroshilov’s wife similarly astonished her family members in 1948 when she announced that “finally we have a country.” At first they didn’t understand who the “we” referred to – she hadn’t shown any signs of a Jewish ethnic identity before. The Hungarian minister of culture (and secretary responsible for culture in the Political Committee of the Hungarian Socialist Workers’ Party) started out as a Zionist, while the communist vice chairman of the Hungarian National Bank (largely responsible for the indebtedness of the country by 1990) quickly discovered his Jewish roots in 1990 and left for Israel.

    Communism clearly wasn’t the dominant ideology of Jews, but it was attractive to a disproportionate number of them, especially considering their economic position. (I.e. they were not poor working class.) This is the reason why Hungary in 1921 made a law (touted in Hungary as the “first racial law against Jews”; I’m not sure if it’s known outside Hungary) which restricted Jews to 5% of students in higher education – they didn’t want to train the leadership of the next communist government.

  336. Marxism was produced by Jewish culture assimilated to German philosophy. It contains Jewish eschatology (as also Hegel), and is written in the clever way to disarm 19th century scepticism and rationality.

    Educated Jews, were not particularly attracted by Russian nihilism, and earlier socialism, and their economic interest would be a reforming meritocracy bourgeoisie ruled country, as in England.

    But Marxism was cerebral enough for many (and many parts were not correctly dismantled until much more intelligent men published like Hayek) and contained echos of their religious culture (for both Jews and Christians, who had recently secularized – usually one generation earlier). People who believed Marxism, actually believed it. You don’t need any secret motives, as it’s a very well designed and persuasive system, which seems to explain everything, and also satisfies the same religious needs which had been lost by recent secularization.

    In terms of racial interest, it offered explicitly Jews, to dissolve their Jewish racial position, and assimilate to a new, living religion (emotionally similar to Christianity, but with impact in a real world).

    Unlike generations of Jews before – Jews who believed Marxism, intermarried with Slavs without sadness, and saw Jews as a religious problem, dissolved the Jewish religion, and started to dissolve all customs which historically separated Jews from Russians, Ukrainians, etc.

    Obviously most Jews were not Marxist, but once in USSR, their dividers from society are constantly dissolved, and they can’t follow any of the primitive Jewish differentiators (like circumcision). Eventually 80% are marrying non-Jews, and without assortative mating (Israel today is full of gopniks from all shits of the former USSR).

    Is this racial interest?

    Equivalent is if some American intellectual whites, partly for their self-interest, find fashionable an fanatical new ideology, written by a white racial-intermmarryier, which along with many other goals, aims to dissolve “whites” as the separate identity, and at the same time they start to intermarry with blacks. Some of the “intellectuals” are politically powerful as result of revolution, and join as part of the multiracial rulers of a country where dividers of “white” separate identity are removed, so with a result that most whites marry with blacks, and whites have lost white identity in some predictable authoritarian dystopia.

    And then after various genocides, some of whites change their opinion, and go to a white country, but by this time they do not know white customs and have a lot of black blood, and are not allowed to marry official whites in the traditional religion.

    It would be quite a strange “American white nationalism”.

    Perhaps later, when awhole system collapsed, blacks would want to blame white partly originators of the disaster. They could say these were secret white nationalists following a white nationalist conspiracy. . .

  337. Swedish Family says

    Craig Murray did an update on the Skripal story a few weeks ago. From the new information that has come out, we now know that the first person to find the Skripals on that park bench was — I kid you not — the Chief Nurse of the British Army! Murray also writes that a prominent BBC journalist working on the story, Mark Urban, was in the army with Skripal’s MI6 handler, Pablo Miller. And this is merely the tip of the iceberg.

    My best guess at this time is that Boshirov and Petrov, the two GRU grunts, were in Salisbury on some shady business or other, possibly related to the NATO exercise that was held in the area at the time, and that they were framed by the British government to turn up the heat on Russia. The Skripals were probably in on it and were not poisoned by Novichok. There are some loose ends to this explanation, but taking a few steps back from the hysteria, I don’t find it so very odd.

    As with the Iraqi WMD hoax, and now the Russiagate conspiracy theory, this story shows that, far from honoring the democratic principles that they claim to defend, our governments are hard at work subverting the press for their own uses and keeping the man on the street actively disinformed about what happens in his country. Just think of what an enormous betrayal that is.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/03/pure-ten-points-i-just-cant-believe-about-the-official-skripal-narrative/

  338. Just some abstract concepts though, not real life.

    What was your impression of America, and things you see with your own eyes, from visiting the country? I have a lot of mixed impressions, as much good as bad.

  339. Eventually 80% are marrying non-Jews, and without assortative mating (Israel today is full of gopniks from all shits of the former USSR).

    This meant to write “gopniks from all shitholes of the former USSR”, especially Ukraine – but shits sounds good as well.

    In the USSR, Jews had lower social status than normal people, and they didn’t have the same economic advantages as they have in capitalism. Combined with geographic restrictions and ban on their religion – this was the way to make them mass intermarry with Ukrainian gopniks, which they have done, from the descendants you can see in Israeli ghettos.

  340. reiner Tor says

    People who believed Marxism, actually believed it.

    Did I ever say the opposite?

    People always honestly believe and feel things. Poor people honestly believe in redistribution, and as they get richer, they honestly start believing in laissez-faire capitalism, low taxes and other similar things. Most people don’t even notice how conveniently their sincere-to-God beliefs tend to follow their interests.

    Another example might be women marrying for money: they very often honestly fall in love with the millionaires.

    You don’t need any secret motives

    You need an explanation why more Jews followed it than gentiles, proportionately, when Jews were richer, on average.

  341. Damn. I certainly wasn’t expecting that from him.

  342. You need an explanation why more Jews followed it than gentiles, proportionately, when Jews were richer, on average.

    I discussed in text above.

    1. It provided opportunity for Jews to dissolve their Jewish identity, and convert to a universal religion, in which the lamb will lie with the lion.

    If belonging to group is a burden, there is motive for many to dissolve the group.

    Interest of many Jews in the early 20th century, was to leave being Jews. A significant proportion of Jews in the early 20th century, did not enjoy being Jews. They were also mass converting to Christianity in this era, although Christianity was dying at the same time, while Marxism was a living faith, which would produce real external changes, such as a universal society in which they would be citizens of this beautiful future utopia (in which, according to Marx, you could go fish in the morning, and then debate philosophy in the afternoon).

    1. Marxism is Jewish eschatology, transposed on German philosophy, and re-written in an materialist way that educated, “rational”, post-19th century, people, can believe.

    I don’t think Jews were disproportionately interested in Russian nihilism or the utopias of Charles Fourier. But Marx’s vision is also Biblical, and is result of a Jewish writer who had rejected his ancestor’s religion, but unconsciously transposed a lot of this religion onto a German philosophy, that itself had a biblical, supernatural structure (just God is revealing himself in Hegelian dialectics, hidden in economic history).

    Secular people (with Christian and Jewish parents) 100 years were not like secular people today, where even our great-grandparents were not actually religious.

    In the early 20th century, the rational part of the mind rejected religion, but the whole imagination and unconscious was still much more full of biblical visions and responded emotionally to these

  343. Israel today is full of gopniks from all shits of the former USSR

    Jews had lower social status than normal people

    Shlomo overload

  344. It’s a marketplace where people like AP can makes lots of money and keep their rooted old world identity while the founding stock of the country is largely left in the dust.

    What a ridiculous notion. How in the world do the AP’s of the US in any way hinder the development or ability of the ‘founding stock’ from maintaining their culture in the US? They vote alike (Republican I’m guessing), pray to the same Jesus in churches on Sunday (prefer incensed temples being one small difference), shop at the same stores, workout at the same health clubs and eventually will be playing golf and tennis at the same clubs. They, and especially their kids, speak the same English language on a day to day basis. American assimilation is all pervasive, a little bit of the old world charm is actually what a lot of Anglo-Saxons envy not having within their lives.

  345. The US is where different groups with different identities compete to make money. There’s no American culture and the English language is just a trade language. The titular ‘American nation’ has been reduced to just one of many groups in the US, which the ruling class and other nations are largely hostile to.

    I don’t claim that Ukrainian Americans harm America in any meaningful way. I’m just bantzing AP, who has a strong Ukrainian identity and a homeland to fall back to while he sits comfortably in the US. People like me don’t have that privilege.

  346. anonymous coward says

    Russians in the Baltics should learn the local languages

    Russian is a local Baltic language.

    E.g., The city known as ‘Tartu’ was founded in 1030 by (the Russian ruler) Yaroslav I under the name of ‘Yuryev’.

    The Baltic ethnicities and countries really only exist thanks to Russian magnanimity.

  347. In the USSR, Jews had lower social status than normal people

    This is an incorrect statement, to put it mildly.

  348. for-the-record says

    Very coherent explanation of Jewish (disproportionate) propensity for Marxism, in fact it is quite similar to that in Yuri Slezkine’s The Jewish Century (strongly recommended if you haven’t already read it).

  349. You have a point, it is much more competitive now, and yes it is rigged (but more along generational lines).

    And E.Euros have not been the most extractive of the US.

    People such as AP do well anywhere because they’re intelligent and are conscientious about their choices.

    It’s more of a class thing. And the titular nation has done nicely from the stock market rally and asset appreciation. Many founders of tech companies are Scots Irish & Anglos. Bezos’ real name is Jorgensen, and the founder of Snapchat is like a 30 yo Anglo.

    That they have chosen an ideological confrontation with the Anglo masses is sad and yes it’s not a real nation anymore that way. Your original idea of the nation is totally fine by me. It would be smaller, with much less global appeal which I’m sure you’d prefer and probably competing with other sizable nations on the continent.

  350. It can be simply shown.

    When parents of two different nationalities had children, they could choose one of two parents’ nationality for the children.

    In families where one parent is Jewish and the other parent is not-Jewish, they would choose commonly not-Jewish nationality for their children.

    One of my grandfather’s was Jewish as his mother was a Jewess (so in the most strict sense he was the Jew, as the mother is the only important criteria for Jews). So he was a real Jew. However, all his documents it is written, his nationality is Russian, because his parents’ chose his father’s nationality instead of his mother’s. They were not antisemitic. It was just better in the USSR, to be Russian, than to be Jew.

    And this was ubiquitous for the Jews, you can see: in forums for people who want to apply for repatriation/work visas for Israel today, hundreds of people are complaining they had a Jewish ancestor, but their documentation does not correspond. People in the USSR, did not want their children to be Jews, when they had a choice.

  351. Thanks.

    I didn’t read this book about Jews though, and probably it would not be so interesting for me.

    I’m interested in any book recommended about Marx and Marxism, though. Generally, I quite like reading any textbooks or essays on Marxism (it always seems to be me, the 19th century’s worst hacker, and Marxism like a beautifully designed, computer virus).

    In English, I found this one which looks good :
    https://libcom.org/files/decrypted_Isaiah-Berlin-Karl-Marx-His-Life-And-Environment.pdf

  352. Gerard1234 says

    Russians other than Old Believers who are very different from modern Russians and who were perfectly integrated already during the 1930’s don’t have deep roots in the Baltics. They are very recent arrivals, some as recent as the late 1980s, 90s and later. Most graves are very recent, too.

    I would be careful of making stupid statements if from a country (Latvia)that has an American Prime Minister ,who still has American citizenship ,and has lived in the country for 50 years less then some great people who built the country(but yet this piece of shit seeks to impose his views on them-with his best Delaware accent)

    Similar thing with Freiberga( is she even living in Latvia now?) – all just Nazi scum families who escaped to the US, became (mildly-qualified) nutjobs…..surely these puppet countries could elect somebody who has actually lived in Latvia, opposed but “endured” the Soviet years and would be a better representative…instead of one just showing up how demented and plastic the country is?

    Not to mention you have a Russian president now..a traitor to his father but still the president of Latvia

    No voting rights, makes your comments about the options in migration the ethnic russians irrelevant…it more than cancels out the latter. A cynical exploitation of ethnic russian docile, hardworking but relative political apathy is also disgusting.

  353. Gerard1234 says

    About a zillion jews in the west seem to have experienced “delayed” learning of their Jewish ancestry. Nothing USSR-centric about this type of thing at all. I would guess into the hundreds of thousands to a few million of those with both parents jewish who have anglised their name to the point of eliminating all Jewishness in it. I would guess they felt holding an outright jewish name would have harmed their chances of upward social mobility.

    Two major events composed near-entirely by jews, which instead of giving numerous ammunition to those lazily ascribing international jewry at work in everything…gives non-ending talk of Russia at work in everything

    The US spy ring in the 1940’s/50’s was near all jewish , but there was zero backlash for jewry….and a massive backlash for the USSR

    Russiagate is basically more jewish than Kosher-pie if you look at the personalities (alleged ) to have been involved (plus the odd guy from Azerbaijan), but what does it become instead of about the jews? All about Russia

    You can only praise the skill of the jewish lobby in the US for this act of misdirection

    It’s similar brainwashing done on issues such as MH-17 getting downed …….people are lead to subconsiously eliminate all sensible thinking processes .I would guess 95% of westerners hearing about it never had any thought whatsoever about the Ukrainian military, intelligence and political establishment and what role they may have played in it. Because it’s an irrelevant prostitute , fake country ….the cognitive processes isn’t there and they are lead to believe it was either “the west” or “Russia” who could have done it..and it couldn’t possibly be the west.All the while ANY technical knowledge or critical thinking are eliminated

  354. In families where one parent is Jewish and the other parent is not-Jewish, they would choose commonly not-Jewish nationality for their children

    Actually it’s a universal phenomenon around the world (e.g. the children of the Russian-German marriage in Russia will be Russian, and in Germany will be Germans). The social status of Jews in the USSR is quite measured statistically-the ecological niche of Soviet Jews was the “middle class” (and rather the upper middle class). The average income of Soviet Jews and their level of education (and, accordingly, their social status) was noticeably higher than the average income/level of education of the rest of population.

  355. anonymous coward says

    AP, who has a strong Ukrainian identity

    AP knows nothing at all about the Ukraine. He has a Galician identity. I.e., a Jewish-Polish mutt.

  356. And this was ubiquitous for the Jews, you can see: in forums for people who want to apply for repatriation/work visas for Israel today, hundreds of people are complaining they had a Jewish ancestor, but their documentation does not correspond. People in the USSR, did not want their children to be Jews, when they had a choice.

    What about using DNA testing?

    Of course, I do think that Israel needs to be more open to the idea of accepting non-Jewish immigrants. After all, I would think that it would be terrible to prevent someone from immigrating to a particular country merely because of his or her ethnic group or religion.

  357. reiner Tor says

    I would think that it would be terrible to prevent someone from immigrating to a particular country merely because of his or her ethnic group or religion.

    Why would it be terrible?

  358. My people never took welfare, paid taxes and in the case of my father employed dozens of well-paid Americans in his company. They also vote Republican and for Trump for the same reasons most people here did. But yes – my father in his 70s says he’ll be fine but we or our children can always go to Ukraine if the Left sinks America.

  359. “…despite Irish and Royalist black propaganda otherwise.”

    When you’re a common enemy of the Irish and the Royalists, you might rethink your position.

  360. I guessed correctly! 🙂

  361. Gaming PC performance requirements have to do with the quality of the monitor. The AnandTech site ‘guides’ menu shows recommended boards for 2019…a Radeon RX 570 for 150 bucks.

    You should be thinking about a NVME SSD…expensive but almost mandatory on a new system. I wouldn’t buy a computer without an ssd.

  362. Thanks. I usually pick authors who try to argue against the established view of history – one learns more that way. What is often missing in mainstream is understanding of the others’ point of view. We can read them and disagree, but at least we disagree based on what they say, not on what others say they should say, or – most often – based on nothing. A one-sided argument is an oxymoron, but the intellectual elites seem to like it that way.

    My view is that bringing millions of slaves into America was a fatal error. The consequences have not fully played out yet – it might eventually destroy US from within. The never-ending attempts to correct this original error usually make it worse. Opening US to mass migration from the Third World can be traced to guilty feelings among some in the elite, but more directly also to an explicit attempt to dilute the legacy of slavery. It has made it worse, but they will keep on trying.

    When in a hole, what is there to do but to dig some more…

  363. German_reader says

    After all, I would think that it would be terrible to prevent someone from immigrating to a particular country merely because of his or her ethnic group or religion.

    Is that a joke?
    Israel was supposed to be a Jewish nation state, non-Jewish immigration on a mass scale would obviously be detrimental to that project.

  364. The Israeli Rabbinate is supposedly using DNA tests now to determine who is a Jew. I disclaim any understanding of Israeli law, but I believe the Right of Return means that interfaces with immigration.

    I think it is a good idea actually (beyond the questionable idea of the state somehow getting your DNA). I’d like to see it adopted more widely. DNA is an obvious, effective and relatively cheap tool to tamp down on this false universality. Since people are highly irrational and don’t like using skin color, I’d like to see it adopted as a means around that. Genetic distance would be a good replacement, IMO.

  365. German_reader says

    I don’t know, I might be in favour of European countries adopting a “right of return” for European-Americans and other European-descended peoples, but I don’t really see the utility of DNA tests. Ideological tests would be more important imo (e.g. I would never allow someone like Rod Dreher to settle in Europe, because he’s just an Americanist über-cuck behind the veneer of his pretend Europhilia).
    But right now that’s fantasy anyway, since one can’t even achieve consensus about the general undesirability of Muslims and Africans as immigrants, which should be a commonsense position.

  366. German_reader says

    Austrian government is considering banning the Identitarians, because Brenton Tarrant seems to have donated money to them in 2018 (probably with the intention of causing such a reaction):
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-newzealand-shootout-austria/man-charged-with-nz-mosque-attacks-gave-cash-to-austrian-far-right-chancellor-kurz-idUSKCN1R80MX

    Sebastian Kurz is a total scumbag, one should never trust Christian Democrats.

  367. for-the-record says

    In English, I found this one which looks good :
    https://libcom.org/files/decrypted_Isaiah-Berlin-Karl-Marx-His-Life-And-Environment.pdf

    I read that decades before you were born, so once you have read it you can refresh my memory if it says anything memorable.

  368. Because I believe in a more multicultural society as long as everyone else assimilates. After all, I would have loathed to be told that I can’t come to the US because I am Slavic and Jewish as opposed to Anglo-Saxon.

  369. German_reader says

    Because I believe in a more multicultural society as long as everyone else assimilates.

    You’ve got your inherent contradiction right there.

  370. Mass intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews combined with a more flexible and inclusive definition of “Who is a Jew?” would solve that problem. I mean, I’m only a quarter Jewish to my knowledge in terms of ancestry and yet I still identify as Jewish.

  371. Not necessarily. I don’t care if different peoples keep their own ethnic foods and languages just as long as they will learn English and don’t spread radical ideas into the US (such as advocating in favor of the death penalty for apostasy or advocating in favor of female genital mutilation).

  372. Slavic and Jewish

    1. Pick one
    2. Now everything makes sense
  373. German_reader says

    I don’t care if different peoples keep their own ethnic foods and languages

    That’s about as superficial as it gets, the sort of assumption that has led Western societies into their current predicament.
    There’s no enforcement mechanism for meaningful assimilation, once you’ve given immigrants citizenship, they can be as tribal as they want. And many obviously are (one merely needs to look at the bizarre spectacle in US politics of Zionist Jews vs. Somali and Palestinian Muslims…probably not what the founders of the US had in mind when they claimed the “rights of freeborn Englishmen” for themselves).

  374. @reiner Tor

    Is there a lot of media noise regarding the arrival of International Investment Bank to Budapest?

  375. Genetically, I would say Slavic. In terms of cultural identification, I would say Jewish.

  376. Maybe if there was less of an emphasis in the US (and perhaps Western Europe as well) on identity politics, then maybe we would see less tribalism.

  377. Thorfinnsson says

    Because I believe in a more multicultural society as long as everyone else assimilates. After all, I would have loathed to be told that I can’t come to the US because I am Slavic and Jewish as opposed to Anglo-Saxon.

    EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

  378. German_reader says

    Identity politics is a natural consequence of mass immigration. Many immigrants have extremely strong identities anyway (lots of Muslims certainly do), they don’t need any encouragement from leftist radicals for that.

  379. Communism clearly wasn’t the dominant ideology of Jews, but it was attractive to a disproportionate number of them, especially considering their economic position. (I.e. they were not poor working class.) This is the reason why Hungary in 1921 made a law (touted in Hungary as the “first racial law against Jews”; I’m not sure if it’s known outside Hungary) which restricted Jews to 5% of students in higher education – they didn’t want to train the leadership of the next communist government.

    In regards to Jewish quotas, as much as the Left might not want to hear this, they actually make sense from a blank slatist perspective. After all, if there are genuinely no genetic IQ differences between different groups of people, then it makes sense to give groups with a lower average IQ preferential treatment when it comes to things such as university admissions, employment, et cetera.

  380. For what it’s worth, I do think that Europe is doing multiculturalism wrong. I’d have only imported the higher-IQ Muslims and let lower-IQ Muslims remain in their home countries. That way, maybe there would be less violence whenever someone draws a cartoon of Muhammad.

  381. This seems like a good argument for large-scale intermarriage, no? Of course, the problem with that is that different ethnic groups are going to lose their uniqueness and that the amount of smart fractions in one’s country might very well significantly decrease.

    Which ethnic groups in the US are the least ethno-nationalistic?

  382. I agree. Skin color (and by extension ancestry) are poor proxies for politics, although much superior to the fiction that exists now that it is about the arguments and all you need is to convince the blacks and Arabs to join the anti-globalists, as Utu seems to believe. But that may be of diminishing importance, if TFR is lower among the far left.

    Tests of ideology might be difficult to administer – I expect that there would be no compunction about lying, and it would be easy to figure out the right answers, as “refugees” do. Maybe, you could use an fMRI, or measure the relative sizes of brain tissues such as the amygdala. Of course, I think politics comes from competing evolutionary strategies, so it would be in the DNA. (At least to a reasonable, if imperfect extent.)

    But on Earth, you have the problem of all land being already claimed, so that makes it more difficult to use tests of ideology. I don’t really entertain the idea, as I think it would be too difficult politically – I suppose that could change, if there was a break-up. A real, if seemingly fanciful possibility would be using them for space colonization. But, of course, there are serious technical hurdles, and you basically need state-backing to devote the resources to get into space.

  383. For what it’s worth, I am well-aware that some Jews’ support for multiculturalism in the West while opposing non-Jewish immigration to Israel contributes to anti-Semitism among Gentiles. In this regard, I think that much more Jews should follow my lead and embrace multiculturalism for Israel. I don’t mean importing massive numbers of low-IQ Muslims and Africans. Rather, what I mean is allowing high-IQ non-Jewish immigrants from anywhere except perhaps the Muslim world (due to their extremely long period of hostility with Israel) immigrate to Israel and acquire Israeli citizenship.

    I also think that civil marriage needs to be legalized in Israel and that Israel needs to adopt a more inclusive and tolerant definition of “Who is a Jew?”

  384. German_reader says

    That way, maybe there would be less violence whenever someone draws a cartoon of Muhammad.

    Mohammed Atta probably had a fairly high IQ by Egyptian standards.
    “Doing multiculturalism wrong”…multiculturalism is wrong per se, there isn’t any right version of it. All that “the US is so much better at integrating Muslims” stuff is garbage as well, there have been plenty of Islamic terror attacks in the US, and people like Ilhan Omar obviously aren’t integrated into any meaningful American identity at all (even though they use SJW language for promoting their Islamic agenda).

  385. Yeah, if you’re going to try figuring out potential immigrants’ political ideologies, the best move might be to look at their DNA.

  386. That’s interesting that you give the possibility of a long-term time horizon. I wonder if he had that purpose in going to Israel – that he knew he would be accused of being Mossad. But that was supposedly in 2016, so perhaps too long ago.

  387. German_reader says

    I think he said he had planned the attack for at least two years, so who knows?
    But getting the identitarians (an explicitly non-violent nationalist movement) banned would certainly fit his accelerationist programme of destroying chances for peaceful activism (though he’s probably wrong that masses of people will turn to violence as a consequence, only a few will do that, resignation and apathy is more likely among the majority).
    Tarrant seems to be a pretty warped personality, his nihilism is unappealing, but his political calculations aren’t completely wrong. The reactions to his attack are probably just what he expected.

  388. Thorfinnsson says

    I would rather that people practice female genital mutilation than keep their ethnic foods and languages.

    Ethnic foods results in having to deal with other people’s food taboos (hindoos and beef, mohammedans and pork, etc.). Annoying for the same reason vegetarians and vegans are annoying.

    Foreign languages means having to hear incomprehensible foreign babbling in public spaces.

    FGM means their daughters get their clits lopped off. Who cares?

  389. Dangers of Multiculturalism!

    https://i.imgur.com/ZK206Ep.png

    Schräge Musik at the end!

    Watching NBA and other sports events, when cameras switch to spectators, you can see exactly what Jung was writing about – even White Americans are very un-European in their behaviour and demeanour, on average.
    This is true even for high class Americans.

  390. Mohammed Atta probably had a fairly high IQ by Egyptian standards.

    I think most ‘fundamentalist’ Muslims (or whatever you want to call them) have a higher than average IQ for their groups; for instance, students and in particular engineering or medical students are/were very over-represented among them in Arab countries

  391. For a guy who seems to be imbued with a free market, laissez faire sort of spirit, you sure sound like somebody more prone to an insufferable case of cultural constipation. Could be the result of a diet too high in meats? More vegetables, especially leafy green ones like spinach might help you out?

    As for your inability to countenance others around you speaking in foreign tongues, perhaps your instincts are correct – they’re definitely talking about you, pointing out some of your basic paranoia and idiosyncrasies! 🙂

    (Lucky thing that you live in a small town somewhere in the Mid West)…

  392. Thorfinnsson says

    Speaking as someone who speaks a foreign tongue fluently, I can confirm that it is a great secret code for disparaging others in public spaces.

    One of the best things about living in a rural area is precisely the lack of diversity.

    I do like big cities, but unfortunately thanks to the never ending hell of immigration one is never at home in these cities.

    And even here in a rural area one suffers from this on the telephone. It’s particularly bad in Canada, no doubt due to their high rate of immigration. Half the time when talking to Canadian businesses one ends up dealing with someone who has some gibberish non-European name and speaks broken, accented English.

  393. As for your inability to countenance others around you speaking in foreign tongues,

    90% of non-European languages sound horrible and even otherwise pleasant European languages sound obnoxious when foreigners use them in your spaces.

  394. the ecological niche of Soviet Jews was the “middle class” (and rather the upper middle class). The average income of Soviet Jews and their level of education (and, accordingly, their social status)

    On average as total population, secularized Ashkenazi Jews probably had a higher capacity for studying, compared to other nationalities. In addition with internal cultural norms, it resulted in higher educational level and higher proportion of the population working as educated specialists (aside from overrepresentation in blackmarket economy).

    This is not saying anything about their social position as Jews. To be Jew, was not cool to be, socially in the USSR. It was surely among the more loser nationalities, socially.

    universal phenomenon around the world (e.g. the children of the Russian-German marriage in Russia

    But today the phenonemon reversed, at least outside of people with political careers.

    Millenials, and even more generation Z are the opposite and boast about their minority roots..

    And this despite the fact nationalities like Jews are still unpopular politically. (And on websites like this one, the most unpopular nationality of all).

    So you can see how uncool it was to be Jewish USSR, by comparing to the reverse behaviour today.

  395. German_reader says

    It was surely among the more loser nationalities, socially.

    People who point out the Jewish role in the Soviet Union usually do so with reference to the 1920s and 1930s, and often acknowledge that things changed somewhat later, especially after the creation of Israel and the support for anti-Israel Arab regimes by the Soviet Union.
    But in the 1920s and 1930s…is it a sign of a “loser nationality” to be grotesquely overrepresented in the secret police?

    And this despite the fact Jews are still unpopular politically.

    There are tens of millions of gentiles who love Jews and strongly support Jewish nationalism (especially in the US, but the type also exists in Europe).

    (And on websites like this one, the most unpopular nationality of all).

    A fringe website with zero influence on wider debates.

  396. It’s some fake news though (it was discussed on this forum already), in relation to immigration law for Israel.

    You can see on the Israeli forums, some people even want to take DNA to prove they have Jewish heritage, and they are told it’s not accepted by Israeli immigration authorities.

    It’s not in English, but if for Russian-speakers, you can scroll through Russian language forums for Israeli immigration and they talk about it constantly.
    https://vk.com/topic-12938769_26623607?offset=15100

    What they can allow is paternity tests to prove to Israel’s government that your parents are who you claim, if you repatriate based on their documents, but they don’t believe you.

  397. Not in every scenario though.

    Israel is multiracial and multireligious. At the same time, it is in internal demographic war between Jews and Muslims.

    Increasing immigration of non-Jewish nationalities which would be loyal to Israel, and at the same of not too low human capital, could improve the demographic balance to become more patriotic and less Muslim in some cases.

    There’s already small examples of loyal non-Jewish immigrants, like the Vietnamese Boat People which were given Israeli citizenship and are reportedly very patriotic, Circassians (who are actually Muslim and arrived in Palestine in the late 19th century), or Christian illegal and legal immigrants from countries like Colombia and Philippines, whose children are conscripted to the Israeli army and then receive Israeli citizenship.

    Obviously, I don’t think giving citizenship to Sudanese and Eritrean illegal immigrants would help Israel’s demographics, because they already just boosted the crime and rape rate there.

    • But remember Jewish immigration can also be difficult for Israel. Haredi Jews are often burning Israel flags and could undermine the state, and are generally superstitious clowns. And I’ve read about Ethiopian Jews, that they cost Israel $100,000 of government spending to absorb each immigrant (they establish special schools in their language, free housing and have to teach them basic skills).

  398. They didn’t have “a greater capacity for studying”, they literally exterminated and expelled the previous professors and students during and after the Revolution.

    Why are you trying to spin the well known facts on the percentage of Jewish students in 1920s Moscow and Leningrad Universities?
    Do you need a reminder on the rerun of that same tribalism and nepotism in the United States today, where they are vastly overrepresented at Ivy League, but not so much at CalTech and MIT?

  399. Calling Israel multiracial, multicultural and/or multiconfessional – really? Are you for real, this oblivious? This isn’t autism, as others might have concluded.

    Israel not being 100% Jewish doesn’t make it a multiracial and multiconfessional country. Having ethnic specific laws and rights, state religion immediately disproves your claim.

  400. https://youtu.be/Ep_35FTnYVA

    Jewish techno party.

  401. Israel probably needs a more targeted and filtered immigration system.

    They have so many demographic nightmares, they don’t need to increase them.

    You can read how Israel’s “Law of Return” is accepting now Ukrainian – presumably because they have Jewish descent – nationalist trash.

    E,g,

    Обвинение: житель Петах-Тиквы жестоко избил женщину за то, что та ответила ему по-русски

    Началось все с того, что Андрей Довженко задал вопрос по-украински, а в ответ услышал русскую речь

    https://www.vesty.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5017036,00.html

    Reader comments below article:

    В Израиле уже давно мирно живут между собой выходцы из любых бывших союзных республик. И только новые репатрианты из Украины последней волны, вносят раздор. Приведу пример. В магазине Суперсаль была очередь в кассу. Покупательница никак не могла понять продавщицу на иврите. Некто из очереди взялся помочь с переводом и обратился к покупательнице по русски. Вместо благодарности он получил грубый ответ, что она не желает разговаривать по русски, а только на мове. Еще раз подчеркну, что это происходило в Израле, а не в Украине или России. Неужели кто то думает, что после таких случаев кто то захочет помогать этим личностям? Пока что от них только неприятный осадок.

    In other cases, at least it seems like illegal immigrants:

    В Петах-Тикве украинец убил молдаванина за слово “хохол”

    But then there the way dresses one of Israel’s (former) main news presenters (Bandera t-shirt is cool):

    https://i.imgur.com/Dn28mHO.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/yQvi5dY.jpg

  402. That’s certainly very possible. That said, though, why is Muslim fundamentalism largely absent from the US?

  403. I did previously see a chart that showed that US Muslims were, on average, much more educated than European Muslims were. Would you like to see this chart?

    As for Ilhan Omar, Yes, she does appear to be a relatively high-IQ Muslim (AFAIK, her family were from Somalia’s elite) and Yes, she does appear to have a lot of ethnic flair left in her. However, what exactly do you find objectionable about her besides her lack of assimilation? I mean, her comments about Jewish money might very well be true–and she does appear to be a typical progressive on social issues (which is good in some cases and bad in other cases, but that’s true for a lot of White American progressives as well–not just non-White immigrant progressives).

  404. Accepting Russians, Belarusians, and eastern/southern Ukrainians would be better than accepting western Ukrainians, no?

    For that matter, might as well throw some Chinese, Vietnamese, and Hindus in there.

  405. German_reader says

    I did previously see a chart that showed that US Muslims were, on average, much more educated than European Muslims were.

    Education by itself is a pretty meaningless metric. Lots of leading SS men had Phd degrees…would you have liked them as immigrants, in your neighbourhood maybe?
    iirc there are polls though which supposedly show Muslims in the US are comparatively liberal on stuff like homos and trannies…hard to evaluate though how genuine that is.
    I doubt though it’s true that there’s no “Islamic fundamentalism” in the US, arguments along those lines always seemed made up to me, just a way for US “conservatives” to bash Europeans for their alleged “racism” and to brag about American superiority.

    However, what exactly do you find objectionable about her besides her lack of assimilation?

    Her people cause nothing but problems in all the Western countries which have been foolish enough to take in Somalis, it’s the height of insolence that such people attain political office (which they of course will use for advancing their Islamic agenda).

  406. Yeah, I’ve seen a poll that a majority of US Muslims nowadays support same-sex marriage. I suspect that it’s probably accurate since even a bare majority of US Blacks support same-sex marriage nowadays. I don’t think that large numbers of US Muslims and US Blacks are lying about this.

    Also, it’s not that there’s no Islamic fundamentalism in the US, but that it appears to be rarer in the US than in Western Europe. Of course, that might simply be anecdotal evidence–so let’s see if someone can find more concrete data on this.

    As for education, you’re correct that one can be well-educated and still hold backwards views. For instance, a working-class American might be more tolerant of LGBT people than an educated Russian would be. Still, my hunch would be that, on average, higher IQ people are more progressive than lower IQ people are. Of course, this could sometimes result in negative consequences–such as the denial of the possibility of genetic group differences in regards to various human traits–such as intelligence, criminality, corruption, et cetera.

    As for Somalis, the trick is the only import the smartest members of their community. Then we’d probably have a lot of Ilhan Omars but not so much crime and terrorism.

  407. I’ve read that Minnesota has a problem with Somali gangs. Thus, it really does look like the US was a bit too welcoming to Somalis and that it should have been more selective in regards to which Somalis it accepted.

  408. For that matter, might as well throw some Chinese, Vietnamese, and Hindus in there.

    You mean as legal immigrants?

    There’s a lot of Indians in Israel. I’m not sure which are Hindu and which are Jewish.

    Some of them are probably illegal immigrants. There are videos people post of Indians crushing the Ukrainians and Russian illegal immigrants for refugee status (those are obviously Hindus/Muslims).

    But I saw some large Indian families, wearing Indian costumes, in the supermarket in Bat Yam (they might be Indian Jews, who appear the same race as Indian Hindus).

    Also I noticed how Tel Aviv is flooded with Chinese people, but they are guest workers there and investors.

    Vietnamese in Israel, are just from the Boat People. A boat of them was captured by an Israeli ship and given citizenship in 1979. So they are Israeli citizens.

    Israel does not have bureaucracy to manage their level of illegal immigrants

    Illegal immigrants from countries like Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea, are allowed to live in Israel without restrictions.

    It’s from countries Israel has good diplomatic relations, that they deport the illegal immigrants.

    So Ukrainians, are all deported, and apply for refugee status. And Indians, probably the same.

  409. The refugee status queue in Israel, also has some Central Asians. I also saw those last year. (Israel has good relations with Central Asia, so the illegal immigrants from there are probably deported).

    Nobody can queue

  410. German_reader says

    As for Somalis, the trick is the only import the smartest members of their community.

    There’s an even better trick…don’t let any of them immigrate at all.

  411. What’s the purpose of your stupid reply.

    Israel is pretty multiracial, multicultural and multiconfessional. I enjoy it in small quantities, but the overall effect on me of that level of multiculturalism in a small area, is stress as well.

    That’s my main problem with Israel. (I would prefer it if was more homogenous).

    Different villages, have different races and religions. You can drive from the Druze village, to the Circassian village, to the Maronite village, to Arab village, to the mainly Russian-speaking town, to French-speaking Moroccan area, to the Haredi town, to Ethiopian immigrant area, to even areas which are conquered by Sudanese women in Hijabs.

    Jews themselves have a hundred different races there, although primarily quite brown.

    Whole place is full of different kinds of immigrants, and even Christian Latinos, Indians, Filipinos and Chinese gastarbeiters.
    In terms of religion, all kinds of church , mosque and synagogue.

    Multiconfessional means, even secular hipsters in Tel Aviv cafes,can have (misfortune in my view) to sit under the noise of the Mosque.

  412. Gerard1234 says

    “My people”…a false and insincere moron phrase in this context…not least with a fantasist fucktard as yourself, who for purposes of attention-whoring on the internet….metamorphasises as a Polish,Austrian anti-Banderite, Banderite, Dagestani-Canadia freakshow. Anyway the Banderite scumbags, probably the poorest non-African ethnic group in America , settled in quite, obscure places not employing many people after being smuggled out of execution , by the CIA..a bit like British paedophiles settled in Australia

    But yes – my father in his 70s says he’ll be fine but we or our children can always go to Ukraine if the Left sinks America

    …I think we all know there isn;t a chance in hell of that occuring ( you freaks going to Ukraine)..or donating a cent to it.

  413. So, you wouldn’t even want Somalis like Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

  414. You mean as legal immigrants?

    Yes, of course. Smart Hindus immigrating to Israel en masse could help strengthen it.

  415. German_reader says

    So, you wouldn’t even want Somalis like Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

    No, why would I want to? She’s merely talking about problems that wouldn’t exist if people of her background weren’t in Western countries. It’s not like she’s made any genuinely useful contribution like finding new antibiotics, bringing us closer to cold fusion or whatever.
    The only other “good” Somali I can think of is Mo Farrah, but he’s merely getting a lot of money for being able to run fast, which is also isn’t anything that is really worthy of respect imo.
    Somalis just come across as one of the most horrible and useless peoples on earth, I can’t think of a single good reason why one would want them as immigrants.

    You seem to be in thrall to some strange immigrationist ideology…which seems to be mainly motivated by the fact that you’re an immigrant yourself. Which isn’t a very convincing reason to the nationalist commenters here like me.

  416. Thorfinnsson says
  417. Technically speaking, by your criteria, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are going to be useless. 99% of immigrants probably aren’t going to be able to do the things that you want.

    Also, No, my own position in regards to immigration isn’t as liberal as you think it is. I don’t think that the fact that I am an immigrant myself is a sufficient reason to bring additional immigrants to this country. I do think that immigrants and their descendants shouldn’t drag down a country’s average IQ or to bring radical ideas into their host countries. I do want immigrants who are not going to harm this country to have the chance to come to this country for a good life, though. Of course, California is already probably overcrowded enough as it is–but US states such as Texas still have a lot of available space.

  418. Eh … she’s relatively attractive for a Semitic Black woman.

  419. What exactly made the Republicans so attractive to your people? Before Trump, they appear to have in large part been pro-immigration just like the Democrats are.

  420. German_reader says

    I do want immigrants who are not going to harm this country to have the chance to come to this country for a good life, though.

    What makes you think they deserve a good life and why should that be of any relevance for their immigration to the US?
    If immigration is allowed at all, it should be solely for reasons of increasing national power, e.g. for attracting useful specialists like Wernher von Braun and other German rocket scientists (odd how that immigration isn’t celebrated anymore as a success story in the US, offends me somewhat).

  421. Well, why don’t you think people deserve a good life? I mean, even if people are going to be stuck in the Third World, one can argue that better-off countries have a duty to help out these unfortunates. It’s similar to how some well-off Americans and Europeans believe in helping out those countrymen of theirs who are less fortunate–except on a global scale.

    Also, if immigration isn’t going to reduce a country’s average IQ or bring undesirable ideologies into a country, then a country’s national power is going to be increased by immigration due to the fact that it is going to have more people–and of a comparable quality–than it would have had without immigration. This is why the US appears to have strongly benefited from immigration–at least until 1880 or so. I’m not sure if large-scale Italian immigration was good for the US, but large-scale Anglo-Saxon immigration was definitely good for the US. Large-scale Jewish immigration was also good for the US in the sense that it resulted in more technological progress in the US as well as in more social liberalism–which is a good thing in the sense that it advocates helping the common man–albeit with the undesirable effect of trying to censor all discussions about the genetics of IQ and especially genetic group differences in regards to important traits such as intelligence, criminality, corruption, et cetera.

  422. reiner Tor says

    Yes, a lot of negative publicity by the liberal press. They talk about the privileges given to “Putin’s bank.” I brought it up here, Karlin made a post about it.

  423. Hyperborean says

    Brushing aside issues like increased political corruption (the infamous “Three Is”, Ireland, Italy and Israel which controlled NY City and other Democratic immigrant party machines, etc.) and diaspora hijacking of foreign policy.

    People are not interchangeable based on IQ and culture is very important. The movement of a certain race-nationality into or out of a particular geographical area will accordingly alter the characteristics of the area.

    To give an example of what is usually seen as a positive case, the German-Scandinavian mass-settlement of Midwestern states led to the creation of social democratic-influenced provinces, which still endure to an extent even a century after German culture in the USA was, for better or worse rapidly and harshly, eradicated.

    Karlin posted a while ago about the higher GDP per capita of Scandinavians in America compared to Scandinavian countries from some American libertarian think tank to extoll the perceived superiority of American economic liberalism.

    Accepting for the sake of the argument the premise that Americans who used to be Scandinavian live better due to the American economic regime and that material wealth should be prioritsed (I would object that, among other factors, increased geographic mobility and short employment terms contribute to American deracination), if Scandinavians comprised a larger part of the American population then the USA would look more like Scandinavia from an institutional perspective.

    But if that were the case then America would be a different country (and Scandinavians wouldn’t be richer, implicitly defeating Karlin’s point).

    I, personally, would see this as a positive but given that libertarianism in all parts of life, and Manchester Liberalism in general, seem like a very important ethno-ideological component of American identity it would be quite fair for Americans to object to such an meta-ethnic alteration of their culture.

    My argument is a bit specific here but in reality this would apply to all facets of general daily life as well as culture, politics, national self-conception, foreign policy, etc. Really, almost everything is affected.

    Now, you might retort that this would be solved with interethnic breeding and indoctrination through mass culture and education, however I see this as an unlikely prospect.

    In the past, the USA was far more self-confident, had a functional core around which to assimilate and was willing to engage in harsher measures. And even with that, despite attempting to absorb nationalities who were far closer from a cultural perspective, amalgamated America still ended up with a Euromutt identity.

    The America that exists today is one where ethnic strife is increasingly ingrained into the foundation of life. Intermarriage will mainly lead to the white core growing smaller as their children will assimilate to non-titular nationalities in places where non-whites maintain local and regional numerical and cultural dominance and due to the state and social promotion of non-titular nationalities even in places where the titular nationality has a majority.

    Particularly important, I believe, will be the psychological shift that occurs when the titular nationality drops to mid-40s%.

  424. Anti-communism abroad and anti-socialism at home.

  425. Speaking as someone who speaks a foreign tongue fluently, I can confirm that it is a great secret code for disparaging others in public spaces.

    You’re beginning to sound like one of those liberal politically correct cucktards. What’s wrong with speaking critically of others in private or in public, as long as it’s not overly mean spirited (especially in secret)? Remember the young kid who recently ‘smirked’ at the American Indian in public? Folks criticize each other here at this blog 24/7. Is it Swedish that you’re fluent in?

  426. for-the-record says

    On average as total population, secularized Ashkenazi Jews probably had a higher capacity for studying

    That’s one way of looking at it I guess. Here is another (referring to the situation in the mid-1920s):

    Some members of the prerevolutionary elite, in particular, resented the “antibourgeois” quotas in educational institutions and the subsequent rise of the Jewish immigrants as both prominent new Kulturträger and leading “proletarian” iconoclasts. The art historian A. Anisimov wrote to a colleague in Prague (in November 1923), “Out of 100 applicants to Moscow University, 78 are Jews; thus, if the Russian university is now in Prague, the Jewish one is in Moscow.” The father of a student about to be “purged” for alien origins wrote to a friend or relative in Serbia: “Pavel and his friends are awaiting their fate. But it’s clear that only the Jerusalem academics and the Communists, Party members generally, are going to stay.” And according to the wife of a Leningrad University professor, “in all the institutions, only workers and Israelites are admitted; the life of the intelligentsia is very hard.”

    Yuri Slezkine, The Jewish Century, pp. 243-244.

  427. Thorfinnsson says

    Yes, I am fluent in Swedish.

  428. So, for the ‘good of mankind’ would you urge your fellow Swedish speakers in Sweden to divest themselves of the Swedish language and adopt German instead, to help form a ‘Greater German World’ within Europe’?

  429. In the USSR academic, Ashkenazi Jews seemed more overrepresented in narrow areas like theoretical physics and maths. This led to “antisemitic” scandals, because there too many Jewish mathematicians and physicists entering the top. So they allegedly used some kind of systems and pressure to limit the number of Jewish mathematicians.

    I’m not expert in physics. But you can see in USSR physics, for example, the most famous “course on theoretical physics”, has author names like “Landau and Lifshits”.

    In the USSR, Ashkenazi Jews were a population who seemed to produce more nerdy teenagers than normal people (who were, according to themselves, often bullied at school).

    I was watching a television documentary about Perelman. And apparently in his teenage years, he was angry that some other Jewish nerd was the better school mathematician in his city. So as a result, he studied more and became successful. This is reflection of a more nerdy culture of the era.

    Also in the USSR, Jews were overrepresented as classical music professionals, and perhaps to some extent even in unrelated areas like ballet,.

    This is not indicative of intelligence ( i.e. classical music performers are not known for their intelligence). It is indicative more of proportionally higher attention span or capacity for studying as teenagers. And outside of the highest achievement, it also resulted in more Jewish engineers, doctors, etc.

    But I’m not sure if there was so much Jewish overrepresentation in academic areas like archaeologists, anthropologists etc. Jewish nerdy children were clearly most successful, in more formal disciplines, which rewarded long hours of nerdy study as teenagers.

    Today, this is clearly all a receding past. There is no sense universities in Russia are flooded today with too many Jewish nerds.

    In Ukraine, there might still exist some traces of the descendants of Jewish nerds in the computer science graduates. I was looking at social media of a friend I know from Odessa last week, and it looked like half of his computer scientist friends in Kiev, had a photo from free Jewish heritage vacations to Israel on their social media. Actually I had some impression that there is a “Jewish mafia” for computer scientists there (but this is just a very superficial impression from time wasting instagram).

  430. …even if people are going to be stuck in the Third World, one can argue that better-off countries have a duty to help out these unfortunates.

    Why? Is it a religious duty? Who exactly is it good for? Unless, pretty much all Third Worlders are allowed to ‘better‘ themselves by departing for richer shores – and that’s unlikely – all you are doing is adding a burden for the advanced world, and facilitating money (and some brain) migration away from the poorest parts of the world. If the departing Third Worlders have no stake in their own societies, and all they do is plot how to leave, that makes their Third World even worse.

  431. Because of his strange Jewish neuroses

  432. “Anti-socialism” is very good and admirable. But I can’t see how you would ever emigrate from America to Ukraine, on that basis. It would always be the opposite.

    America is still the centre of capitalism and has a lot of legal protections for private property. And for private citizens, USA is even better than Western Europe in areas like inheritance tax law.* (Although, for businesses, the corporation tax in America is still higher than many EU states).

    But what can you say about Ukraine?

    Even if we judge it by “pro-capitalist” economic reforms and projects, which politicians are promoting to international investors there, like the privatization of Odessa Port Plant.

    It was supposed to be the first major privatization in Ukraine since the coup. And yet years later, the result is no international investors wanted to buy it because of lack of accounting transparency and sense there would be enough private property protection.


    *Western European countries like France and UK steal much of the money of people after they die. USA has something similar, but it only begins at around $11 million, so at least most ordinary Americans avoid this kind of open property-theft socialism.

  433. The interesting fact, though, is that I’m not sure that the Democrats were particularly less anti-Communist than the Republicans were during the Cold War. JFK ran as a hawk in 1960 and it was Nixon who reached out to China and who implemented detente with the Soviet Union.

    Also, what exactly did Ukrainians in the US have against the social safety net?

    BTW, did Ukrainians in the US continue voting Republican even after the end of the Cold War?

  434. The Swedish are doing a good job of replacing their culture, but it sure as heck isn’t being replaced with German.

  435. Daniel Chieh says

    I’m reminded of Sailer’s(I believe?) construction of Trump as the First Black President.

  436. “Anti-socialism” is very good and admirable. But I can’t see how you would ever emigrate from America to Ukraine, on that basis. It would always be the opposit

    The thinking is, if America were to go full wildly left and anti European, than Ukraine could be a refuge. Although for me it would be Russia – my wife has a flat in central Moscow, I would easily get a poorly paid job at a hospital.

    At any rate, it’s theoretical, America will certainly not collapse during my working years in the coming decades. But my kids time, doubtful but who knows?

  437. The interesting fact, though, is that I’m not sure that the Democrats were particularly less anti-Communist than the Republicans were during the Cold War

    They were from the time of Carter onward. Before that, not particularly.

    Also, what exactly did Ukrainians in the US have against the social safety net?

    It smelled of socialism.

    BTW, did Ukrainians in the US continue voting Republican even after the end of the Cold War?

    For the most part, yes. Ukrainians are the “Cubans” of Eastern European-Americans.

  438. Speaking as someone who speaks a foreign tongue fluently, I can confirm that it is a great secret code for disparaging others in public spaces.

    Indeed. Or not even for disparaging others. I’ve taken for granted that all public conversations are still private within my non-English-speaking family.

  439. Even throughout the cold war period, during the 60’s & 70’s, it was a mixed bag. A lot of Ukrainians held skilled factory jobs and were union workers. Some held union positions and heavily encouraged others to vote Democratic. My father, worked in such a machine shop as an A operator machinist. Although he paid his union dues and attended union meetings, he always voted Republican, a true blue ‘Cuban of Eastern Europe’ as AP has pointed out. In Chicago, to this day, most Ukrainians still vote Democratic. Nothing gets done in Chicago without union approval. It’s a matter of making sure that your own bread gets buttered. But Chicagoans are an exception! 🙂

  440. It’s true Ukraine could be quite economically developed by about 2040 or 2050, if it can stabilize now.

    Assume they might join the EU around 2030. And then assimilate to a lot of German style laws and regulations.

    If it reaches something like Czech Republic level in the 2040s, it would not be so crazy to want to move there, or at least parts like Odessa.

  441. Gerard1234 says

    To do this , not only would there have to be full trade links restored with Russia…but the likes of Bulgaria, Poland, Romania would have to become ultra–wealthy, high-tech , prosperous countries….with Ukraine providing the role to them in goods and services……, that they now provide to the main/wealthiest countries like UK,France, Germany, Holland , Italy, Scandinavian etcet,
    I simply can’t see this happening.

    Gruzia is way ahead of Ukraine in organisation & technocrats. Turkey and Azerbaijan are relatively wealthy countries for Gruzia to have good trade relations with…but without full economic & political relations with Russia it’s infrastructure and it’s GDP are pitiful ( and that is despite excellent levels of FDI in a small country)
    That is why even as far as 2030-2040 in the future…I can’t see any way out of the nightmare that Ukropia is in now….and if Gruzia is nowhere near joining the EU now… I can’t see when they can join.

    Except if you’re Israel ,good relations with powerful; &/or wealthy neighbors are essential in order to be succesful….and that is before we even get into the unrelenting freakshow and mess of Ukraine.

  442. One of the most beautiful nations in Europe, and it’s being made completely unrecognizable in the name of diversity and tolerance. What a joke.

  443. Gerard1234 says

    a true blue ‘Cuban of Eastern Europe’ as AP has pointed out.

    No such thing you dimwit. What happened was this fantasist maggot AP making up some braindead fantasist BS about “My people ( WTF?) blabla always voted Republican” ,even though since the time Banderatards came over to the US from after the war, there was nothing defining Democrats or Republicans as more anti-communist than the other, the Republicans weren’t particularly more socially-conservative/religious than the Democrats ( which this retard is probably trying to imply is convergant with Banderatard pseudo-beliefs)..and geographical blue/red areas were totally different to now ….other commentators unwittingly called this POS out for it…and the retard responded with more BS on top of the original lie to try and consolidate his cretinous claim.

    Over the last century you have had in America powerful White Russian lobby( probably what you morons try and misappropriate as a “Ukrainian” lobby), Italian lobby, Hungarian lobby from end/beginning or 19-20th century, Hungarian lobby from after 1956, Irish lobby (of course), jewish lobby, jewish lobby(anti-Russian) from pogroms, jewish lobby(anti-Russian ) from 1970’s 80’s USSR policy, Cuban lobby, pre-1941 German lobby, polish lobbies ( of various time periods) and many other ones.

    …………….what you sure as fuck don’t have and have NEVER, EVER had is a “Ukrainian ” lobby you twat.
    This is of course natural because no politician can campaign for support/donations in domestic and foreign policies to a group of obscure, outcast, failure people whose “claim to fame” is being smuggled out by the CIA from Germany in secret, being the worst white ethnic group in terms of achievement and money in the country…and general obscure shitheads.

    For those other ethnic groups I mentioned in the list….it’s quite obviously easy to try and openly campaign for their votes- like critising Castro for Cuban-immigrant vote . This is quite obviously not for “Ukrainians”….it’s why to this day Kiev is viewed correctly as a Russian city , in America nobody can locate where one of the biggest countries in Europe is on a map over there in Pindostan, and why nearly every Hollywood film about a Russia gives him a “Ukrainian” name. Also it’s why from the 1990’s, there hasn’t been a single big Banderatard come into existence in the US from the post-soviet collapse and emigration of highly qualified people

    Do you even know who Jaresko and the Dr Death CIA Hippy Nazi bitch “Health” Minister of ukropia, Suprun voted for in the US ( two of the most high profile US-Nazi Banderatards who came back to f**K up Ukropia even more)? Of course not you idiot……..though if there was an ACTUAL lobby in America, and you idiots were ACTUAL supporters of this fake state then you would know who this type of high profile Badneratard are and were on the Democrat/GOP line they stand

    Utter nonsense

  444. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Taras_Shevchenko_statue_unveiling.jpg
    Former U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower unveiling the statue of Taras Shecxhnko in Wasshington DC

  445. One of the most beautiful nations in Europe

    Well of course the Sweden’s Minister of Culture has a non-Swedish appearance, but it looks (judging by the photo) more attractive than the average Swedish woman of that age.

  446. I don’t know about that, but she’s certainly not unattractive and looks rather athletic – I think that we need Thorfinnsson to help straighten this one out?

  447. looks rather athletic

    Athletic woman is better than fat

  448. reiner Tor says

    the average Swedish woman of that age.

    Which age? I don’t know how Swedish women of each specific age group look like anyway, I’m just curious.

  449. Over the last century you have had in America powerful White Russian lobby( probably what you morons try and misappropriate as a “Ukrainian” lobby),

    Sorry to say that White Russian lobby doesn’t have much if any influence. A sampling:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20050205051751/http://russian-americans.org/CRA_Art_Captive.htm

  450. Large-scale Jewish immigration was also good for the US

    One curious pattern of history is that as soon as the kikes reach critical mass, they set in motion a chain of events that leads to themselves stuck in ovens.

    You’d have to be blind not to realize that we’re literally dealing with the synagogue of Satan here.

  451. I don’t know how Swedish women of each specific age group look like anyway, I’m just curious.

    Roughly such as I think (perhaps inhabitants Sweden correct me ).
    https://d.radikal.ru/d40/1903/8b/8ebabbbad025.jpg

    In General, beauty is only a small percentage of women in any country in the world, even among young girls (for Sweden this is also true – having visited Sweden, it is easy to make sure that the average Swedish girl is very different from the average Swedish actress/model ). And women after 40 on average are less attractive than in 17 years.

  452. reiner Tor says

    Algeria seems to have its own version of the Arab Spring right now. I wonder that’ll affect the flood of immigrants to Europe. Or Algerian imports of Russian weapons. Anything else interesting about it?

    Plus, it’ll apparently lead to some kind of Egyptian solution, with the army being the new kingpin, same as the old kingpin before the now old president (in the case of Egypt formerly himself a general; in Algeria succeeded a long-serving president who had been a general) got too much entrenched.

  453. She’s ugly

    https://imengine.hall.infomaker.io/imengine/image.php?uuid=2c8ab07d-5f58-4f8b-9846-8f86afab8ab2&type=preview&source=false&function=hardcrop&width=1200&height=800&q=80

    I wish that strange Jew who used to give his opinions on whether he would bang women or not was still around, he would sort this all out.

  454. Thorfinnsson says

    She doesn’t look bad for being in her 40s, though that photo is not very flattering. Appears she has drawn on eyebrows which is always a turn off.

    You’re thinking of Greasy William.

  455. ‘We were just checks notes burning racism, kaffir’

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D20SkyDW0AAssAH.jpg:large

  456. They really haven’t been very violent so far and it doesn’t seem like the sort of issue that these people are going to die over. They look to me like the sort of people at the Gezi Park protests, not like they’re going to start a civil war.

  457. I think that she’s behind you on that ‘Greater Germany’ thingee…(a sleeper agent from Deep State) 🙂

  458. Konstantin says

    But politically Baltic states are among the oldest guberniyas of Russian Empire and if not for terror campaigns in 1905 – 1907 and in 1917 – 1920 resulting in the creation of Baltic States, these territories would saw a massive influx of Russians much earlier. One could say that Baltic people paid for their independence in blood, but this argument goes both ways.

  459. Konstantin says

    This “alien” status nonsense and restriction of political rights of Russians surely won’t go unanswered. “Russians always come for their money” (c) Bismark.

    The most obvious and rather mild solution is to have Latvians experience exactly same apartheid for the same number of years (currently 28 years).

  460. Daniel Chieh says

    The only part I have have to contribute is that I personally found a lot of Algerians to be rather European in appearance, due to French ancestry. A girl I knew there had pale skin and green eyes.

  461. reiner Tor says

    due to French ancestry

    Or due to Berber ancestry. Berbers are the original inhabitants of the Maghreb, and they are genetically closer to Europeans than any other population with pre-1492 roots outside of Europe.

  462. reiner Tor says

    Baltic states are among the oldest guberniyas of Russian Empire

    They hadn’t been under Russian rule before the Great Northern War, which is to say, roughly three centuries ago.

  463. reiner Tor says

    Arguing for a settler population which could easily get citizenship if only it learned the language surely won’t generate much sympathy for Russians.

    The only argument that could be had here is that Russians have it worse than nonwhite immigrant populations in Western Europe. But at least in these corners we don’t have much sympathy for those immigrants either.

  464. UA, BY + 3B = big bite.

    Kishka nepotyanet.

  465. I wasn’t talking about the culture minister’s looks, and I’m sure their are plenty of immigrant women in Sweden who are attractive. I was thinking more about the fact that Sweden isn’t really Swedish anymore.

  466. Maghrebis in general are a rather attractive people.

  467. Thorfinnsson says

    The former minister aside (who is half-Swedish as her coal burning mother is Swedish), the good news about Sweden’s vibrants is that they are exceptionally poorly integrated. Thus they have much less prominence than vibrants do in most other European countries.

  468. Or due to Berber ancestry. Berbers are the original inhabitants of the Maghreb, and they are genetically closer to Europeans than any other population with pre-1492 roots outside of Europe.

    As far as I know the Berbers is an example of the independent occurrence of light hair and eyes as a result of mutation spread in the population . Such mutation in history happened
    many times – for example, some tribes of Siberia have blond hair and light eyes

    https://media.nazaccent.ru/files/27/58/2758079a10ecbad755f622901c230b8c.jpg

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6702/287731.2c/0_bc663_fb69ae36_XL.jpeg.jpg

  469. Not really, they often have the strange lopsided, off, look that Orthodox Jews do, probably something to do with cousin marriage.

  470. ‘Lopsided look’? The young girl, at least in the bottom photo. has a very pretty symmetrical face structure. Her eyes have that slight exotic Asian look, but are quite large, the hazel type color matches her hair color to a tee.

  471. Lol, what are you talking about? Maghrebis and Orthodox Jews look nothing alike, unless the Jews in question happen to be Sephardim who joined the Orthodox. Most Orthodox are Ashkenazim.

  472. I’m pretty sure those are Siberians, not Maghrebis.

  473. That’s not because of an independent mutation; Indo-Europeans had once lived in central Asia and these genes have spread around.

  474. Here is a Berber, probably what DFH was talking about:

    http://looklex.com/e.o/slides/berbers03.jpg

  475. Well, I’ve spent some time in the Maghreb, and I met plenty beautiful women over there. They didn’t look like any Orthodox Jews I’ve ever seen.

  476. German_reader says

    Jared Taylor claims he’s banned from the EU…because of Poland:
    https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/03/letter-from-zurich-airport/

    If true, I wonder what’s behind this…merely Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they’re seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland? Or was there pressure from the US for this?
    In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these “right-wing” governments actually are when they’re just running the usual “antifascist” script (same with the Austrian government which considers banning the identitarians).

  477. OT sort of but I’m getting a stream of anti-Zelensky facebook, and a few pro-Poroshenko, posts by various people in Ukraine. While I am not predicting a Poroshenko win (certainly not in the first round) I would certainly not be surprised if he wins the second round. I’d give him 40% at least.

    I never got any pro-Yuschenko stuff on my feed.

    Zelensky is popular among easterners because he is viewed as not as bad as Poroshenko (he donated a million dollars to the Ukrainian military, but he’s from Dnipropetrovsk and speaks better Russian than Ukrainian). If it was a pure east vs. west thing he wouldn’t stand a chance, but he also picks up some younger voters wanting radical change, from the west and center, which may be enough to put him over the top.

    If voters chose him in the first round as a protest against corruption, but then decide he might be too inexperienced to lead the country he will probably lose. Poroshenko can also release a stream of dirt against him (apparently some former Yanukovich people occupy roles on his team – but so do reformist Maidanists) which will hurt him if it sticks.

    Here is an article by Bershidsky comparing Zelensky to the Slovak candidate Caputova:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-29/slovakia-and-ukraine-election-populists-aren-t-like-the-others

  478. reiner Tor says

    Jared Taylor Are the Real Racists!

  479. German_reader says

    When used as a values-neutral term, Jared Taylor probably can be considered a racist with good reason, since he explicitly regards race as the central component of identity.
    And maybe many Poles genuinely do find such explicit race talk repellent, since Poles were victims themselves of applied racial theories during the German occupation. I guess it also conflicts with their self-image as noble Catholic conservatives or whatever.
    Still, if they had merely wanted to keep him away from Poland, there must have been other ways than having him banned from the entire EU. So I suspect there’s something else at work here.

  480. for-the-record says

    The European Parliament has spoken:

    End racist discrimination against Afro-European people in the EU

    MEPs call on the EU and its member states to take measures to tackle the structural racism people of African descent face in Europe.

    In a resolution adopted on Tuesday with 535 in favour to 80 votes against, and 44 abstentions, Parliament urges EU and national authorities to develop anti-racism policies and stop discrimination; in the fields of education, housing, health, criminal justice, political participation and migration.

    In light of increasing afrophobic attacks, MEPs call on the European Commission and EU member states to acknowledge the racist, discriminatory and xenophobic suffering of Afro-Europeans, and offer proper protection against these inequalities to ensure that hate crimes are suitably investigated, prosecuted and sanctioned. Additionally, people of African descent should be taken into account more in current funding programmes and in the next multiannual financial framework (2021-2027). . .

    Crimes against humanity during colonialism

    The resolution encourages EU institutions and member states to address and rectify past injustices and crimes against humanity, perpetrated in the name of European colonialism. These historic crimes still have present day negative consequences for people of African descent, MEPs claim.

    MEPs suggest carrying out reparations, such as apologising publicly and return stolen artefacts to their countries of origin. Parliament also calls on EU countries to declassify their colonial archives, as well as to present a comprehensive perspective on colonialism and slavery in the educational curricula.

    Background

    Approximately 15 million people of African descent currently live in Europe. They face persistent discrimination and are subject to deeply rooted negative stereotyping.

    Evidence suggests that Afro-European children receive lower grades at school than their white counterparts, and their rate of early school leaving is markedly higher.

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/da/press-room/20190321IPR32133/end-racist-discrimination-against-afro-european-people-in-the-eu

  481. for-the-record says

    And some heartwarming news from France:

    Greek tragedy prompts ‘blackface’ racism row at Sorbonne

    A row over alleged racism and attacks on freedom of expression has erupted in France after students forced the Sorbonne to cancel a performance of a Greek tragedy featuring actors using black masks, claiming it was “Afrophobic, colonialist and racist”.

    Protesters picketed the prestigious Paris university, stopping actors from entering the theatre and accusing them of using blackface for the play The Suppliants by Aeschylus.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/28/sorbonne-at-centre-of-racism-row-after-alleged-blackface-in-theatre-show

    The protesting Classical scholars:

  482. Interesting fact: the Algerian separatists selected the most European-looking women to plant the bombs that often targeted French women and children.

    I think there’s been a lot of geneflow between Europe and North Africa before the French invaded North Africa, probably since at least neolithic times, or even before. Of course, there was a great traffic in female slaves from Europe. They often were bought to become wives, and so had many children. In old novels, the Tuareg were often said to be light-eyed. Probably not typical, but at least a sometimes thing. There are also black Berbers, from African slaves – they are considered lower caste.

  483. I didn’t say they looked the same overall, I said they had a sort of facial asymmetry and frequent off-look which in that respect was similar to Orthodox Jews.

  484. I went out with a cute Moroccan girl too once; it doesn’t mean they’re all like that.

  485. Polish distrust of white nationalist activists, because they’re seen as successors of the Nazis who did so much harm to Poland

    Does Poland crack down very much on its internal nationalist groups like National Revival though?

  486. They make up for it by the fact their current culture minister pretends to be black

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Amanda_Lind_2018.jpeg/1280px-Amanda_Lind_2018.jpeg

  487. Hyperborean says
  488. Around 50% of Orthodox Jews, are from African and Middle Eastern countries like Morocco, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Tunisia, Libya, Iraq.

    You can see brown skin of Haredi in the right

    https://i.imgur.com/PssLT25.jpg?1

    https://i.imgur.com/a1uU1Bm.jpg

    Brown ones often perfectly integrated with the lighter ones in the same politics and cults

    https://i.imgur.com/Ly8TV30.jpg

    And then National Religious (which a more normal and successful kind of Orthodox Jews) also seem about 50% 50% with the brown and lighter populations in their school.

    https://i.imgur.com/X4SWV9b.jpg

    The religion clearly domesticates and tames behaviour of the brown ones though (it probably removes their violent behaviours), even as they have some politically radical protests.

  489. You date African women, with your politics? – unless I confused you with someone else here.

  490. I haven’t been to Sweden.

    But it’s surprising your post – I would have guessed Swedish women would age more attractively than most countries, considering overall conditions of Sweden: a country with low obesity, healthy diet, low sun exposure, high income and low pollution.

    And women after 40 on average are less attractive than in 17 years.

    Or often, sadly, only after 30.

  491. Hyperborean says

    Iraq:

    http://www.iraqiembassy.us/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/photos/Dancers.JPG?itok=5hrmgIrR

    http://www.iraqiembassy.us/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/photos/Children%20in%20School.JPG?itok=kg-qelxp

    http://www.iraqiembassy.us/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/photos/Iraqis%20gather%20in%20the%20street.JPG?itok=peXwPBdB

    Iran:

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/9/1410274163332/1ef84843-5116-460c-ad8e-ac26734e9245-1020×699.jpeg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=91ba1ae1667a19fd36171df1a278227b

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/4/1409842326372/2488a349-307b-4f37-a534-ebb448121d62-525×660.jpeg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=bdfe237ad5c90e8230141e5a8f1b262e

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/9/1410272845692/bf7cc3c7-733f-4e33-b919-b5d04445f3c4-bestSizeAvailable.jpeg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=f3883352d6bb9279c55e06ef3a472aff

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/3/1409743894528/c7eb9ce3-de54-46db-ba60-0fadd65ec203-1024×768.jpeg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=60cefd667730cff08e036c95bc0a67f9

    Lebanon:

    https://www.lebanoninapicture.com/Prv/Images/Pages/Page_6514/tumblr_m1aodxgWr21qhij65o1_500-l.jpg

    http://www.souar.com/data/media/17/lebanon_old_pictures_2013__21_.jpg

    http://www.souar.com/data/media/17/lebanon_old_pictures_2013__44_.jpg

    http://www.souar.com/data/media/17/image003.jpg

  492. German_reader says

    I have no idea about right-wing Polish movements tbh. I’d just suppose it might complicate matters when one of the most important national myths is resistance against the National Socialists (who were extreme racialists after all).
    But in any case events in the last few months have been rather disheartening.

  493. What are you trying to show? Something about their clothes?

    I notice more the introduction of those nice Americans cars.

    Aside from the oil wealth it would bring them abroad – the introduction of automobiles to Middle Eastern cities, was even more tragic than for the rest of us.

    What happened when automobiles introduced to Middle Eastern cities:

  494. Lol are you sure? It may be even more chaotic than Ukraine.

    I know people talk about how they like Tbilisi, because it’s completely disorganized and you see many crazy and comic events every day living there.

    But despite being an idiocracy, Georgia has still been developing for the last few years.

    Combining their falling population and 5% GDP growth, it is not impossible Georgia could almost reach “developed economy” status in the 2030s or 2040s.

  495. Oil really profoundly changed the Middle East.

    Trillions of dollars in the ground. Artificial nitrogen fixation, rail, and trucks made food much cheaper. (A lot of this destabilization was because of the price of food – incredibly cheap, by past standards) Previously, a third of agricultural land in the US was devoted to feeding horses. Oil-powered shipping is much more efficient than coal. Then there’s the whole idea of being an air hub, not to mention air conditioning.

    Almost 90% of the drinking water in Saudi Arabia comes from fossil fuels. About 50% from desalination. About 40% from pumping deep groundwater, and a large amount is transported in tankers.

    Though it has caused trouble too, I wouldn’t like to be the last Arab in the Middle East when the oil runs out. I can almost understand why they are so gung ho about invading the West.

  496. Anonymous says

    Maybe they just lump Taylor in with the rest of the “alt-right” riff-raff on whom they have some kind of blanket exclusion policy? I might do that if I were in their shoes; it’s difficult enough for these governments to deflect the “RACIST!” slurs against their immigration policies without some fringy American “white nationalist” going around stirring up trouble (I’d be interested to know what kinds of organizations he was associating with on his last visit to Poland).

    It does speak to the paranoia around these matters. Taylor is a cipher even in his own country; is his fairly squishy brand of ethno-nationalism really a threat to the neoliberal consensus? Maybe the elites think the “consensus” on this issue is more brittle than people like me assume it is.

  497. That’s not because of an independent mutation; Indo-Europeans had once lived in central Asia and these genes have spread around.

    Anthropologists who studied these Siberian tribes believe that this is the result of an independent mutation (in small and isolated hunting tribes such mutations, once happened, easily “fixed”).

    Probably genetics will soon provide an accurate answer to the question of the origin of the Siberian (also Caucasian, Berber, Himalayan and other non-European) “blondes”.
    But blondes among Australian aborigines and Melanesians was the result of independent mutation, it is 100% proven. For this isolated population of blond people in Africa, Siberia, etc. is also likely to have independent origins.

  498. reiner Tor says

    I guess the joke about the guy advising the other that he cannot outrun the bear (“But I only have to outrun you!”) applies here: Polish (or Hungarian) nationalists are thinking that they don’t have to be globohomos, just less nationalist than Jared Tayler (or in Hungary’s case Richard Spencer). It’s pretty demented, because of course there will be a next round.

  499. But it’s surprising your post – I would have guessed Swedish women would age more attractively than most countries

    Attractiveness thing subjective – for a lover of tall blondes Scandinavia (and the North-Western part of Russia) is just a Paradise. For a lover of petite brunettes is better to go to Spain.

    But I did not compare countries, my point was different: in any, absolutely any country in the world, beauties make up a relatively small percentage of girls. Those who (as a result of viewing photos on the Internet) think that all Swedish girls look like Ingrid Bergman/Anita Ekberg will be bitterly disappointed if they come to Sweden.

    This also applies to Russia/ Poland/ Japan/China any country in the world

  500. In any case, it makes me wonder what use all these “right-wing” governments actually are

    Their only use is for Israel and US strategy to split or weaken the EU. They don’t give a damn about Polish or Hungarian national aspirations.

  501. Israel urges Poland to deny entry to British Holocaust denier David Irving (20 March 2019)
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-urges-poland-to-deny-entry-to-british-holocaust-denier-david-irving/

    Poland says Holocaust denier David Irving ‘not welcome’ on death camp tour (24 March 2019)
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/poland-says-holocaust-denier-david-irving-not-welcome-on-death-camp-tour/

  502. I think it is something bigger. Probably coordination, with New Zealand as the excuse. Martin Sellner supposedly can’t enter the US, which is really shocking to me, even moreso than Poland banning someone. I guess it’s inevitable that the US Constitution will become totally meaningless – it’s been a joke for years.

    Then, of course, there is facebook at about the same time banning white nationalism and separatism.

    What this really evokes to me is the crackdown on people advocating peace during WWI. What is funny is how many intellectuals (many Jewish) seem to blame that crackdown, like the war itself on nationalism. Rather to me, it seems like a case of the elites deciding on a crazy course and then fighting any attempt to correct the course.

    The Western establishment is basically at war with Europeans. It is a political war, but with many of the consequences of real war. Surely, there were less Germans in Paris than there are blacks and North Africans there now. Europeans are paying an indeminity/tribute much larger than any in the past.

  503. Anthropologists who studied these Siberian tribes believe that this is the result of an independent mutation

    Maybe. Independent mutation certainly explains blondes in Melanesia. But in Siberia, this is also a likely explanation:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/no-romans-needed-to-explain-chinese-blondes/#.XJ9uCndFyUk

    Apparently the blond mutation among Indo-Europeans originated in Siberia ~14,000 years ago. It’s pretty likely that it spread among non-European peoples also.

    Wiki says “The derived allele of KITLG associated with blond hair in modern Europeans is present in several individuals of the Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) lineage, and is recorded in Mesolithic Eastern Europe as associated with the Eastern European Hunter-Gatherer (EHG) lineage derived from ANE. The earliest known individual with the derived allele is the ANE Afontova Gora 3 individual, dated to 14,700 years ago.[33]”

  504. An example of schmuck journalism:

    https://thinkprogress.org/alan-dershowitz-russia-propaganda-02f4cf31c533/

    Calling RT propaganda, unlike MSNBC and CNN, in addition to calling someone with a valid view, a conspiracy theorist.

  505. David Davenport says

    Southwest grounds Boeing 737 MAX jets until end of May

    Mar. 30, 2019 10:11 AM ET|About: Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV)|By: Clark Schultz, SA News Editor

    Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) says it will was pull its 34 Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets from the company’s flight schedules through the end of May, according to Reuters. An earlier timeline had the Boeing 737 MAX jets grounded until April 20.

    “This will impact the lines in May, but, now that the decision has been made, we can construct our schedule without those flights well in advance in hopes to minimize the daily disruptions,” says the company and the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association in a joint memorandum.

    Southwest is in the process of publishing a new schedule for May to take into the account the Boeing 737 Max 8 grounding.

    Shares of LUV are up 11.7% YTD and trade at just under 11X 2019 EPS estimates.

    https://seekingalpha.com/news/3447072-southwest-grounds-boeing-737-max-jets-end-may

  506. German_reader says

    Banning David Irving is understandable imo, since Poland is obviously extremely sensitive to anything that would downplay Nazi German crimes.
    I don’t think Taylor has ever expressed positive views of Nazi Germany though (he’d probably fault Hitler for having caused the deaths of so many white Europeans), nor is he explicitly antisemitic. It’s also ridiculous to claim that he’s likely to incite violence.
    It just seems perverse to ban him, especially at a time when thousands of IS jihadis are returning to Europe, often facing nothing more than being welcomed by some social worker who’s to help them with “reintegrating”.
    I guess this shows how deep the rot really goes and how grim the situation is.

  507. Jared Taylor is a useless windbag.

  508. It’s really a no-brainer. Banning some no-name from the west in return for some signalling points, while refusing to ban him = one more argument for the west and for the internal opposition to call current government “fascists”. And here they can say “see, we banned this awful rascist… eee what was his name? Haredi Taylor? That’s right! We are not racists!”

  509. Why Polish government should care about some foreigner, actually?

  510. German_reader says

    If they had merely refused him entry to Poland, I don’t think there would be reason to complain…but having him banned from the entire EU?
    And it’s a mistake to think that such antiracist signaling will ever work and help to deflect criticism, it merely validates the existing narrative instead of reframing it.
    If Jared Taylor is promoting a “totalitarian ideology”, why should it be ok for Poland to stay majority Polish and Catholic? Isn’t that the opposite of the inclusiveness an open society should strive for, and kind of totalitarian itself?
    And if it’s ok for Poland to push an initiative to ban an individual from the entire EU, why doesn’t Poland show more solidarity with other EU countries and take its fair share of refugees? Pretty hypocritical to denounce racism with words, but not act upon it.

  511. What would make him useful? If he were anti-ZOG? He went to Yale and probably had a lot of Jewish friends, but he’s not a neocon, as far as I know.

    I think even Charles Murray is useful, although I consider him rather soft on immigration and the realities of race. Taylor runs a moderately useful website and conferences, anyway. Ideally, he’d be producing popular mass entertainment/propaganda. But since no one on the Right is doing that, it is probably not too easy to do outside the existing Leftist framework.

  512. Pretty hypocritical to denounce racism with words, but not act upon it.

    Welcome to the real world 😀

    It’s really simple. Jared Taylor is no one. He has not political support. Banning him costs you nothing. Not banning might cost you something.

    Another thing is that it’s not necessarily “Government”. The administration is large and numerous, and it’s not like it got purged with the elections.

  513. Naturally, I agree with your explanation – I was too clumsy to press Agree instead of Disagree – there is no way to correct it that I am aware of,

  514. German_reader says

    Again, if they merely had stated he’s not welcome in Poland and refused him entry in/deported him from Poland, it wouldn’t be a problem, just a wholly legitimate manifestation of Polish sovereignty.
    But validating the claim that any sort of pro-white activism, even explicitly non-violent one, is eeeeeeeevil and deserves to be crushed with extraordinary measures like bans from most of the European continent…well, if one thinks like that, there’s not much of a basis for rejecting the coming African mass immigration.
    But then I suppose Polish right-wingers just assume they won’t be affected anyway. They seem to have this idea that they can grab all the goodies from EU/NATO membership, but still maintain their homogenous Catholic national community, all the while preening themseles on their heroic past and looking down on the decadent West which undergoes rapid demographic transformation. Well, good luck with that.

  515. German_reader says

    You can simply change it after some time.

  516. I agree about the attempt to get signalling points, although obviously it’s totally ineffective. I don’t think they would have been blamed for allowing him in though; did anyone care about his visit last year?

  517. Jared Taylor exemplifies American racist provisionalism. The American concept of Whiteness was invented in the American South from where it metastasized to almost all America with the help of American oligarchy. Europe and Poland is not interested in American primitive racial categories. Europeans fortunately did not get infected with the American White pseudo-identity so far because they still have a rich cultural heritage from which they can draw the sense who they are. The Islamic thread to Europe of which you are so concerned will be easily contained once the political will will be regained. On the other hand Americanization is a of much greater threat to Europeans in the long run.

    David Irving had much more to offer to European self understanding before his livelihood and reputations was destroyed by Jewish Americans and his work could and still can lead to some healing of deep wounds left by the WWII. America and its Jared Taylors can only keep festering this wounds.

  518. He is as much useful as some ornithologist who is concerned about some pond being overtaken by migrating Canadian gees to the detriment of the indigenous loons, who talks about it but mostly because he is in love with his own voice while really not giving a fuck about the loons and the outcome.

  519. Anonymous says

    I doubt the Polish authorities are parsing Taylor’s message and ideology that closely. What’s more likely is they see an American associating with native far-right groups and getting attention for it, this gets them concerned, they spend 5 minutes Googling Taylor based on which they designate him some kind of crypto-Nazi and terrorist sympathizer (Dylann Roof), and he gets banned. It may have just been the judgment of some mid-level customs bureaucrat; I don’t think decisions like this get a particularly high degree of scrutiny (in the US they certainly don’t seem to).

  520. German_reader says

    The Islamic thread to Europe of which you are so concerned will be easily contained once the political will will be regained.

    It’s not merely an Islamic threat (though that is a very important component), it’s also about the demographic explosion of non-Islamic Africa (which is very hard to reject if you accept the standard “antiracist” narrative).
    And there’s absolutely no sign of any political will to restrict immigration, instead the establishment in key European countries is doing everything it can to prepare the ground for a massive expansion of immigration.

    I agree with you though that Americanization is a very serious problem, and that European nationalists should be very wary of uncritically linking up with the American alt-right. The situations in Europe and the US aren’t strictly comparable; and it bothers me how some European identitarians obsess more over the latest US race controversies than about what’s going on in neighbouring European countries…it’s the mirror image of America exporting its toxic anti-white race discourse.
    I don’t see though how David Irving is supposed to play any positive role, rehabilitation of Hitler is unlikely to be a unifying force in Europe.

  521. I agree with you though that Americanization is a very serious problem, and that European nationalists should be very wary of uncritically linking up with the American alt-right.

    There are probably several thousand more important things that European nationalists should be considering than the effects of American white racial identity upon Europeans.

    Anyway, I don’t really see what the particularly American problem is since his beloved Hitler actually did talk about the concept of Europe quite a bit

    https://hooktube.com/watch?v=_3n3YQnbW_s

  522. German_reader says

    There are probably several thousand more important things that European nationalists should be considering than the effects of American white racial identity upon Europeans.

    In general American influence is absolutely pernicious, something like that anti-“blackface” protest in Paris mentioned above is clearly an import of American racial discourse (as is the denigration of “old white men” which is increasingly common in European media), like so much else of “antiracism”.
    Europeans adopting the talking points of US racialist right-wingers is the flipside of that…understandable, but imo still problematic since it reinforces the dependence on American modes of thought.

    And no offense, but in general I really have to wonder about your reflexive defense of the US, given your strong anti-black and antisemitic views. The US is an extremely pro-black and pro-Jewish country, and it seems most American white gentiles are fine with that.

    btw, I can’t watch the video you linked to…banned in Germany, lol.

  523. I don’t see though how David Irving is supposed to play any positive role, rehabilitation of Hitler is unlikely to be a unifying force in Europe.

    Not rehabilitation but normalization. Irving was a main stream historian respected by other historians with great reputation. Irving work could lead to sealing the artificial cracks created for propaganda purposes by Anglo-Americans Jews and Soviets in the fabric of European identity. Europe could heal and stop being being played against each other by the anti-European forces like Americans, Russians and Jews. And Irving was very successful in bringing human dimension to Germans and their rational. He wa able to bring human dimension to the real ‘Nazis’ and get away form the two dimensional Nazis that even intelligent and reasonable people like ‘reiner Tor’ got incurably inculcated with. He was very dangerous to the dominant two dimensional cartoon narrative. The Holocaust issue used against him was just a ruse. He fell for it. It was his mistake. A sin of pride most likely. He was too good and too successful at what he was doing in the legitimate historical research that was top notch so he had to be destroyed.

    Note that Israel-Russia rapprochement under auspices of Chabad Lubavichers in recent years (building monuments to Red Army soldiers in Israel and having Netanyahu at WWII Victory Parade in Moscow and building synagogue all over Russia) leads to a common historical politics by Israel and Russia, i.e, the glorification of the Red Army as the savior of the Jews and the World and at the same time cementing the Holocaust narrative. So the chances that the archives in Moscow concerning the WWII and the Holocaust being open and reevaluated are now nil.

    On the other thread I wrote a comment today that is related to this issue that I modified slightly.

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/escape-from-america-budapest/#comment-3124092
    Orban seems to be a very skillful politician. He plays Israeli-American game of undermining the EU which offers some protection from adopting insane EU immigration policies. At the same time he is flexible enough to maintain a decent relationship with Russia. However once the US will make the reset with Russia which is inevitable, the protective umbrella extended over Hungary (and Poland) will be folded and Hungary and Poland will be left at mercy of the EU and Germany, which however may be a blessing in disguise if by then the EU will rectify some of its insane policies thanks to the new trends set by politicians like Salvini of Italy. For the politicians of the so called V4 countries it is a waiting game and navigating between the ‘anti-Marxist Zionism’ and the ‘anti-Zionist Marxism’ but there is no escape from the neoliberalism, i.e., the power of financial markets of oligarchy. Anyway all signs now indicate that both Kaczynski and Orban are Netanyahu’s two bitches.

    NB: One should consider a possibility that the reason countries like Poland and Hungary were allowed to resist the Muslim invasion of 2015 was that they were being groomed to be a lifeboat for the exterritorial expansion of Israel into Europe (see Operation Shylock by Philip Roth for a fictional version of this scenario and Henry Kissinger’s 2012 utterance that Israel would not exist in 10 years).

    In an ideal case, in theory at least the EU is the only salvation for the Western Civilization in the long run. Only EU could stand up to the American-Jewish-Russian neoliberal oligarchy. Neither America nor Russia can control or contain this oligarchy as it was created by Judeo-Capitalism and Judeo-Bolshevism in their countries. Europe can resist Islam very easily however to save the Western Civilization it must resist Americanization which poses much greater threat and this threat will be greater when America will join its forces with Russia just like they did in the WWII when the two non-European powers conquered and occupied Europe.

    If Europe will be saved it will be by Germany, France and Italy and the V4 countries onece they shake off false promises of USrael protection against the imaginary thread of Russia and false protection against the Islamic immigration that is engineered by Israel anyway.

    The bottom line is that the enemy of Europe is the US and Israel. The anti-Russian histeria an paranoia is to split Russia from Europe and draw it eventually to American sphere of influenc against Europe and China.

  524. Two months ago I suggest the following angle for Germans as part of of populist movement (in search of acceptable to Germans enem as each populist movement must have an enemy. The enemy is America and Americanization.)

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/heart-of-darkness-germany/#comment-3040960

    Europeans and Germans especially should use anti-American sentiments in their fight against the immigration. There is no laws against being anti-American in Germany yet.

    Why America is so fucked up? Because they have no social cohesion and solidarity.

    Why Americans are so easily manipulated by their media and neoliberal oligarchy. Because they have low social cohesion and solidarity as a country of immigrants.

    Why do the powers that be want immigrants and minorities? Because ruling people is so much easier when you can divide them.

    Why do the powers that be love immigrants? Because they like cheap labor that will replace you.

    We don’t want to become dysfunctional America!

    Save Europe from becoming America. There is still time. Stop immigration now.

    Make the message not about Germany being German but about Germany and Europe not becoming America.

    You can stop immigration only if you attract more people to your movement. Your message must be palatable and attractive to them. You can’t turn them off with racism because they were so strongly conditioned against it that they behave like Pavlovian dogs when they hear anything remotely linked to racism or anti-semitism.

    To attract people from the left to your side you must make your cause about going against the system, against the capitalism, against the neoliberalism and against the economic injustice. Do not concentrate on immigrants how stupid, ugly and bad they are but on the powers that bring them in. Do not fall into the trap of stupid American alt-right that profess IQism and HBDism by people like Sailer, Karlin, Derbyshire on this site. They actually might be the useful idiots or the fifth column of the neoliberal system.

  525. Anonymous says

    Anti-Americanism is difficult to exploit as a political force, especially in Europe, for a few reasons:

    -Historical association of anti-Americanism with fringe far-right and far-left movements which are generally regarded as cranky, ineffectual failures

    -America is not a remote, abstract entity; almost everybody likes at least some American stuff (especially young people), which can induce cognitive dissonance

    -Although America is in some respects dysfunctional, it is still in many other aspects a highly functional and even aspirational society. If you cite American diversity as a weakness the opposition can easily point to e.g. Silicon Valley (since all countries would like to have something like Silicon Valley within their borders)

    Also, while American racial categories have historically not had much applicability to the European context, I don’t think this is the case anymore today: as long as you have relative freedom of movement between European states (which will be the case for the foreseeable future), combined with substantial MENA presence in those states, people are going to make distinctions between “white” (European) and “non-white,” if only on a subconscious level

  526. In general American influence is absolutely pernicious, something like that anti-“blackface” protest in Paris mentioned above is clearly an import of American racial discourse (as is the denigration of “old white men” which is increasingly common in European media), like so much else of “antiracism”.

    It’s the very fact that everyone in Western Europe is indoctrinated about the struggles of American blacks which means that they need the counter narrative

    The US is an extremely pro-black and pro-Jewish country, and it seems most American white gentiles are fine with that.

    Well American white nationalists obviously aren’t and most Western Europeans are even more pro-black

  527. German_reader says

    Irving work could lead to sealing the artificial cracks created for propaganda purposes by Anglo-Americans Jews and Soviets in the fabric of European identity.

    That’s an illusion. The resentment against Germany in most European countries isn’t based just on American, Soviet or Jewish propaganda. It has a factual basis in German actions during WW2, which in many cases were of an undeniably criminal nature. No amount of revisionism (unless it’s just propaganda itself) will ever make the deliberate mass killings of Polish elites or the massacres of civilians during anti-partisan operations look good, nor are Heydrich’s musings about the need to deport half of all Czechs ever likely to inspire much sympathy in the Czech republic. This isn’t necessarily linked to pro-American or pro-Jewish attitudes either. Greeks are highly anti-American (and supposedly also quite antisemitic, if one can trust the polls commissioned by Jewish organizations), but they still resent Germany because of the massacres and the cultural vandalism during the German occupation.
    It’s also convenient for everybody else to lay sole responsibility for everything that went wrong during the 1914-1945 era on Germany (the issue isn’t limited to WW2, Germany’s WW1 war guilt is still an article of faith for many). You can see this even with Italians who get to claim that they were always just brava gente, fundamentally decent folk (even when they dropped mustard gas on Ethiopians), unlike the uniquely evil Teutons (and who find a ready audience for that view, as demonstrated by AK’s “Mussolini did nothing wrong” article). German evil is a great foil for one’s own humanity or heroism.
    And there is also zero prospect of revisionism ever gaining ground in Germany itself (which is clearly in a terminal phase as a nation and has devolved into complete infantilism). A few years ago, when I still watched television, I watched some stupid talk show. One of the guests was Serdar Somuncu, a Turkish-born “comedian” who has made a career of lecturing Germans about the Nazi past (something to which he has no personal connection, since his kind wasn’t here back then). Somuncu suggested Germans shouldn’t mourn for German WW2 dead at all, but only for the victims of Nazi crimes. No one objected, apparently everyone agreed. That kind of attitude is typical of today’s Germany.

  528. German_reader says

    Well American white nationalists obviously aren’t and most Western Europeans are even more pro-black

    American white nationalists are an insignificant fringe movement and likely to always remain so.
    Mainstream white right-wingers in the US have integrated the civil rights movement into their narrative of why the US is so wonderful and exceptional.

  529. German_reader says

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/magazine/battle-over-bds-israel-palestinians-antisemitism.html

    Netanyahu and his supporters also argue that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict long predates the occupation, and that Palestinian groups have always opposed the establishment or existence of a Jewish state in Palestine. “The issue is not land; the issue is not statehood,” says Morton A. Klein, the president of the Zionist Organization of America, a once-marginal pro-Israel group that has close ties with the Trump administration. “The Palestinians don’t want peace no matter what.” Referring to the years of the major partition proposals and Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, he added, “Because the Palestinians were offered a state in ’37 and ’47, and they said no. In 2000, 2001, 2008, they said no.”

    […]

    To bolster the argument that the Palestinian struggle is a fight against racism, B.D.S. leaders have highlighted the support for Jewish ethno-nationalism by far-right European politicians like President Viktor Orban of Hungary, alt-right figures like Steve Bannon and white supremacists like Richard Spencer, an organizer of the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Va. That year, Spencer told an Israeli television interviewer: “You could say that I am a white Zionist in the sense that I care about my people. I want us to have a secure homeland that’s for us and ourselves, just like you want a secure homeland in Israel.”

    Klein and other prominent pro-Israel figures reject any suggestion of commonality with Spencer. Klein told me that “I don’t see how you can love Israel, sincerely love Israel, and hate Jews.” Spencer, he went on, had “cleverly found a way he can use Israel to make his position on a white-only state sound legitimate.” I asked Klein why he believed it was “utterly racist and despicable,” as he put it, for Spencer to promote a state for only one ethnic group but not racist for Israel to do so. “Israel is a unique situation,” he said. “This is really a Jewish state given to us by God.” He added, “God did not create a state for white people or for black people.” Senator Charles Schumer, the Democratic minority leader, similarly told the Aipac conference in 2018: “Of course, we say it’s our land, the Torah says it, but they don’t believe in the Torah. So that’s the reason there is not peace.”

    According to a 2013 Pew survey, 44 percent of Americans and 40 percent of American Jews believe that Israel was given to the Jewish people by God.

  530. Hyperborean says

    Europeans adopting the talking points of US racialist right-wingers is the flipside of that…understandable, but imo still problematic since it reinforces the dependence on American modes of thought.

    While race is of course important, I also find this tendency to think in terms of continental races and sideline ethnicity unsettling.

    I have seen cases of both American white nationalists (calling the Baltic countries of Estonia and Latvia “homogeneous” because there are no non-whites there) and liberals (complaining that “the white kid” was carrying the Soviet banner in an USSR textbook praising inter-ethnic coexistence) doing this.

    I find it disturbing because of Europeans current-day mental dependence means that Europe risks simply becoming an overseas extension of the USA, and even if America was not its present mess and was instead Karlin’s idealised 1950’s America I would still find it unsettling to adopt many dangerous assumptions that Americans have and had about their identity even in the 19th century.*

    *As an example, Henry Ford, of The International Jew infamy, used to have “English Schools” at his factories where people would be encouraged to become Americans and at the “graduation” they would go into a building wearing traditional dress and come out of the building wearing American clothes.

  531. Thorfinnsson says

    Perhaps its my transatlantic background, but I find the US vs. Europe discourse silly. Fact is that America and Europe are confronted with broadly the same problems.

    Europeans can paint to the malign influence of the US Empire on Europe, but the US Empire is also the enemy of Americans. Other than the hapless victims of American militarism we’re the first victims of the US Empire.

    The Americanization of racial discourse in Europe is a predictable consequence of importing American-style racial problems into Europe.

    What is now called “white nationalism” was the de facto American racial policy from the middle of the 17th century until the middle of the 20th century. Similar views took root in other European offshoots in the New World. Now that Europe is cursed with diversity it’s not surprising that some Europeans are discovering what their cousins across the water did four centuries ago.

  532. German_reader says

    Perhaps its my transatlantic background

    I actually do think that plays a role. And maybe it’s similar for other Americans with some ties to Europe.
    But I’m convinced many white Americans who really believe in American liberal mythology would cheerfully bomb any nationalist European regime that would use armed force to keep out migrants or even commit expulsions. They’d see it as part of a noble tradition, ranging from Lincoln’s war against the South to free the slaves over WW2 (which was primarily about the Holocaust in this view) to the Kosovo war, fought on behalf of Muslims.

    What is now called “white nationalism” was the de facto American racial policy from the middle of the 17th century until the middle of the 20th century.

    If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war (which is really strange if one thinks about it, has something like this ever happened anywhere else in world history?).
    I know American renaissance and other white nationalist publications push the line “Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago” (and of course leftie critics of “AmeriKKKa” agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.

  533. Thorfinnsson says

    I actually do think that plays a role. And maybe it’s similar for other Americans with some ties to Europe.

    My transatlantic background does play a role, which is why I brought it up. Perhaps I shouldn’t have said…perhaps.

    But I’m convinced I’m right.

    More on this later.

    But I’m convinced many white Americans who really believe in American liberal mythology would cheerfully bomb any nationalist European regime that would use armed force to keep out migrants or even commit expulsions. They’d see it as part of a noble tradition, ranging from Lincoln’s war against the South to free the slaves over WW2 (which was primarily about the Holocaust in this view) to the Kosovo war, fought on behalf of Muslims.

    Unfortunately this is true, but not unique to America. You can find many such Europeans. You’ve brought up your discussions with a “CDU cuck” who fancies himself an amateur secret policeman.

    If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war (which is really strange if one thinks about it, has something like this ever happened anywhere else in world history?).

    The British promised freedom to slaves who were willing to fight with them against the American revolutionaries.

    That said there was something strange here.

    I know American renaissance and other white nationalist publications push the line “Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago” (and of course leftie critics of “AmeriKKKa” agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.

    And here is where my transatlantic background finally becomes useful.

    America is flawed from the outset in that the American Revolution was based on a pack of egalitarian lies. These lies weren’t what actually motivated the Revolution, but the revolutionaries worked with the fashionable ideas in circulation at the time.

    The American Renaissance set is not wrong and has much historical evidence available to support their position, but unfortunately the opposite is true as well.

  534. David Davenport says

    * I would still find it unsettling to adopt many dangerous assumptions that Americans have and had about their identity even in the 19th century.*.

    What are these dangerous assumptions of which you speak? Please elucidate.

  535. What you describe is what was constructed long after the War and it got worse with the passage of time when the 2 dimensional Nazis cartoons for ‘reiner Tor’ were being constructed ad infinitum and the real ‘Nazis’ were lost. You totally underestimate or even are unaware of European artistic and religious elites who were setting a different tone after the war, the tone of reconciliation and of forgiveness which are essential part of our Western Civilization. People want reconciliation and they want to forgive but it becomes difficult when the fire of hate is being stoked. Who did supply he fuel for this fire? Who kept it going?

    You probably are not aware of the letter of Polish Bishops written to their German counterparts already in 1965 that began with the words “We forgive and ask for forgiveness”. You probably are not familiar with Polish or Russian and even American cinematography created in the first 20 years after the war. They were not blood thirsty and vengeance was not emphasized. People were still conditioned by the ethos of European education that vengeance was bad and not just Christians bad even for the ones who underwent the indoctrination by the godless Komsomol like Dmitri or Karlin parents. You have never heard of 1961 Polish movie “Tonight a City Will Die” about the annihilation of Dresden. Here it is in its Russian version:

    Kurt Vonnegut in 1969 wrote the most powerful and very beautiful anti-war novel “Slaughterhouse-Five, or The Children’s Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death” centered on the destruction of Dresden. Where are the other anti-war novels written after the WWII while so many were written after the WWI? Why there are so few? After David Irving wrote The Destruction of Dresden in 1963 he was targeted by some Jewish “burglar” outfit.

    Then came the Six-Day War in 1967 and everything has changed. The Holocaust became the most important propaganda project. It all became about not forgiving and about the vengeance. This was all written using the Jewish cultural code not the European Christian code. Young generations of future ‘reined Tors” are now conditioned by Tarantino’s “Inglourious Basterds.” I am sure they learn history and humanity form it.

    Post(trans)-humans like A. Karlin produce texts were they rationally justify mass rapes of German women and top it off with casual remarks of how great the bombings of Hiroshima and German cities were.

    Probably I am getting too old. I getting too tired to explain what people from your generation of post-humans, the Mowglis raised by the video games are unable to get.

  536. German_reader says

    You’ve brought up your discussions with a “CDU cuck” who fancies himself an amateur secret policeman.

    Germans can be pretty insufferable (and reporting others to authorities is a German vice, both Gestapo and Stasi wouldn’t have worked otherwise), and like Americans they like to lecture other peoples. But today they don’t have military hard power (or the willingness to use it) for forcing their preferred ideology on others…America does. And frankly, when I read the things both American liberals and “conservatives” write at times, I’m not really happy about that. There’s a strong anti-European strain in American thought, and today it is very much linked to “antiracism” and multiculturalism. If European countries ever would move away from that model, there might well be conflict.

    The British promised freedom to slaves who were willing to fight with them against the American revolutionaries.

    Things like that happened even in the ancient world, when military necessity dictated it, without calling the general system of slavery into question (and indeed it would still be 50 years until the British completely abolished slavery). And granting freedom isn’t the remarkable part for me (I’m not in favour of slavery anyway, I hope I haven’t given the impression I am)…the granting of equal political rights is, without even some interval (many of the ex-slaves must have been illiterate). That’s absurdly radical by any standard.

  537. German_reader says

    Young generations of future ‘reined Tors” are now conditioned by Tarantino’s “Inglourious Basterds.” I am sure they learn history and humanity form it.

    That’s a caricature, and deeply unfair to “reiner tor”.
    I don’t know why you always have to be so extreme about those issues and resort to personal attacks, it makes nuanced discussion difficult.

  538. I do not think you know what nuanced is. In your case its is an euphemism for “cuck.”

  539. You are bringing up good objections but it all can be fixed. You hire Cambridge Analytica or a similar outfit and they will be able to come up with phrases that will navigate around the apparent contradictions and created a coherent message. I have outlined the general strategy that is the only one that can work. It is the job of tacticians and technicians to implement it.

  540. German_reader says

    If you had taken the trouble to read (and understand) my comment above about the remembrance of WW2, you might understand that this is pretty absurd.
    But sometimes it’s hard not to get the impression that you won’t be content with anything less than “everything is a Jewish plot” anyway.

  541. Hyperborean says

    What are these dangerous assumptions of which you speak? Please elucidate.

    -All (white) people can become Americans, coupled with frequent uprooting due to work or education and a national mythology that celebrates newness and reinventing oneself.

    -A moralistic culture always searching for another liberation crusade at home or abroad. America is not alone in having been enveloped in fanaticism, but the extreme focus on freedom and the fact that so many of the most important American conflicts (the Revolutionary War, the Northern victory in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Cold War) reinforce the idea of America the Invincible Liberator, makes it especially dangerous. Of course, there are defeats like Vietnam, but there are no soul-crushing downfalls to dissuade Americans.

  542. LondonBob says

    The South is the most militaristic, with their Scots Irish and English cavalier heritage, despite the crushing defeat they suffered in the Civil War, as Shelby Foote pointed out it was strange that Patton should say America never lost a war as his own grandfather was in the Army of Northern Virginia (the US also basically lost the War of 1812). Truth is America has more of a tradition of pacifism and isolationism, with the US Army of minimal relevance for most of US history. Current hyper militarism is really a Cold War relic given new life by neocon zionist concerns.

    The US is really far more left wing, and cultural Marxism much more embedded, than Europe. Academia, finance, business and mass media particularly so, and it is these that are influential internationally. A lot of people seem to have perception of America that is either out of date, or woefully out of date.

  543. You will come around to my point of view eventually. With or without the Jewish long term perseverance and plodding which some like to call it a plot.

  544. Honestly, I think Vonnegut is generally a terrible writer. I will give him credit for depicting the bombing critically, and one or two other things in his other writings. They say you can tell if someone is a misanthrope by whether or not they can create likable characters – Vonnegut cannot. (Though that could possibly relate to skill.)

    That particular novel is decadent. I won’t be so tawdry to quote the disgusting, X-rated passage I recall, but “beautiful’ it is not.

    BTW, that is an interesting idea about 1967 being a cultural turning point, rather than WW2 by itself. At the time Vonnegut wrote his book, I’d say there was a lot of antiwar sentiment, in part because of Vietnam, but also because there were a lot of veterans, like him, still living. Obviously though, Holocaust, Inc. took a while to develop.

  545. German_reader says

    that is an interesting idea about 1967 being a cultural turning point

    It’s not an original point by Utu, it’s widely accepted that Jewish nationalism increased dramatically among American Jews because of the six-day-war (which may even in part have a religious basis, with the conquest of the religious sites in East Jerusalem). Of course there were also more general factors favoring this, with the loss of power of the traditional WASP establishment whose norms were no longer seen as the standard one had to assimilate to.
    I’m not sure about Holocaust remembrance though, my impression has always been that it really escalated to its present, cult-like form only in the 1990s (in tandem with multiculturalism becoming the dominant ideology in many Western countries). But maybe I’m too young to accurately assess this.

  546. I agree that Vonnegut was an uneven writer. But the Slaughterhouse-Five is probably his best and it is the best anti-war novel of WWII. I read it several times and every time I read it I found it better and deeper. All negative opinions about him I personally heard came from Jews and at that time I did not connect the dots until much later when I became a Judeorealist.

  547. The German government today is essentially an occupation government, constructed by occupying powers. When I say that, of course, I’m being little provocative, but there is nevertheless a large grain of truth in it. The current government evolved directly from the occupation government, and this influenced German politics and culture.

    It is the exact same thing with the US. The government of today is the Homo (pun intended) to its ape ancestor at the end of the Civil War. Slaves were mostly given the vote to help disenfranchise Southern whites. Eventually, the South rallied and there was a movement towards sanity, and of taking away the vote from blacks, but by that time, the power dynamic had already been created, and it was arguably to late to stop it.

    What was essentially different about the US, when comparing it to South Africa, was that blacks were a small enough group that many people could delude themselves into thinking it would not be that destructive to give them the vote.

  548. David Davenport says

    -All (white) people can become Americans, coupled with frequent uprooting due to work or education and a national mythology that celebrates newness and reinventing oneself.

    What is your objection to that premise? Please explain further.

  549. I really wish someone would do an historical study about the spread of Holocaust memorials, and the evolution and frequency of Holocaust language in print and fiction. As well as study the flow of money involved. The way I view it, the memorials would be a proxy for the political narrative, and the trendlines would have a similar shape.

    It would be interesting to compare it to the Armenian genocide and others. I bet they would all look like abortive Holocaust trendlines, since those groups don’t have the same influence necessary to construct their own Holocaust, Inc. But maybe, the Holocaust trendline would have some predictive value going forward. Is the process slowing down? Or still accelerating? In any case, I don’t think it can go on forever.

    Some of those memorials most likely will come down, like Saddam ‘s statue or statues of Lenin. It doesn’t help that they are overwhelmingly ugly.

  550. German_reader says

    Is the process slowing down? Or still accelerating? In any case, I don’t think it can go on forever.

    It may have already reached its peak. Living links to the era are becoming increasingly tenuous, WW2 must feel very long ago to someone who’s 20 today. There’s also the issue that Holocaust remembrance has served as a sort of foundation myth for multiculturalism. Since multiculturalism and mass immigration are likely to lead many Western societies into the abyss, Holocaust remembrance might eventually be discredited as well.
    Until then however one should probably expect a lot of young Muslim women and other immigrants trying to appropriate the Holocaust cult for their own purposes.

  551. It may have already reached its peak.

    Quite the opposite. The haggadah of Holocaust will continue being constructed and reinforced. Less eyewitnesses the better for the story.

    After 522 Years, Spain Seeks To Make Amends For Expulsion Of Jews
    https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/12/25/371866778/after-522-years-spain-seeks-to-make-amends-for-expulsion-of-jews

  552. Ford seems to have been surprisingly naive about blacks. At least, I have never heard of him being critical of them and I bet a lot of people were motivated to search, since his attitude towards blacks is presented as a defense of his character, which has been damaged and defamed to the point where he is thought of as being a Nazi. (Curious similarly to Walt Disney.)

    Perhaps, the first blacks who moved to Detroit were the smarter and more capable ones, but still it would have been impossible not to make observations. Blacks in the North were problematic, even when they were a small population, judging by historical newspapers – which often presented their criminal cases as entertainment pieces.

    Maybe, it was in part because he was born a hick, but Ford could be heavily implicated in the destruction of Detroit. Sort of interesting because he saw cities as rotting dens of corruption and predicted that industry would move into rural areas.

    Another interesting idea he had was that planes would revolutionize the labor market and teams of men would be flown where they were needed, crisscrossing the country. If he had only known that the planes would be used to bring in hordes of unemployable hostile men who were looking to settle in the West and that many Jews would be cheerleading the process.

  553. Portugal Offers Restitution To Descendants Of Jews Persecuted During Inquisition
    https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2015/02/02/portugal-offers-restitution-to-descendants-of-jews-persecuted-during-inquisition/

    Portugal is seeking to make restitution for its treatment of Jews during the Inquisition by offering citizenship to anyone who can prove they are descendants of the Sephardic Jews who were either killed or driven out of the country 500 years ago, Examiner.com said.

  554. Greeks are highly anti-American (and supposedly also quite antisemitic, if one can trust the polls commissioned by Jewish organizations)

    Greeks are a joke of a nation. An Orthodox Christian puppet of Anglican English, and later on, atlanticist Americans. Since WW2, every single Greek government was an Atlanticist puppet.
    Greek Orthodox Church is a tool, and divided inside – their nominal hierarchs are despised by monks and priests.
    They have football Ultras that are unironically far left.

    They go for a riot, anti-austerity, anti-neoliberalism and all that jazz, and then elect a complete American stooge and Soros plant – “leftist” Tsipras, and that obnoxious ‘tard Varoufakis, who immediately do exactly what people were protesting against – and no problem! Well, of course, because that whole affair was American orchestrated to weaken EU, Germany and German banks, not expression of Greek sovereignity and popular will. Macedonia issue springs up – people protest, 70% of public against – government decides in favour of it – no problem. In Macedonia, referendum fails – again, atlanticists couldn’t care less.

  555. Why would anyone who could track his lineage 500 yours ago want to have a Portuguese citizenship? Possibly worst reparations ever.

  556. And Germany is in no way as helpless and subservient to USA as some make it out to be.
    UČK/KLA was still a terrorist organisation in the USA (official list) when BND was already sending operatives and advisors, weapons, effecting an uprising.

    More importantly, BND was smuggling weapons to Croatia and Slovenia in 1990, and the Kohl/Genscher efforts and lobbying for Yugoslav separatists and their recognition, pressure upon French (buckled last) was independent foreign policy – more precisely – against Atlanticist wishes. In the process, they violated UN charter, Helsinki accords and all manner of international agreements and principles – which would in time serve as a rallying point for anti-West sentiment throughout the world – a generation of Russian and Chinese future power brokers was raised during the 1990s when the Western abuse was the worst.

  557. Have Jews apologised for anything ever?

    Murdering Christ would be a good place to start.

  558. German_reader says

    Why would anyone who could track his lineage 500 yours ago want to have a Portuguese citizenship?

    Gives access to the EU, allows free travel and residence in much of Europe.

  559. Portugal and Spain have given 10,000 passports to people claiming Sephardic roots
    https://www.jta.org/2018/11/23/global/portugal-spain-gave-10000-passports-sephardic-new-citizens-since-2015

    Passports have man uses for Israel:

    2004 Israel–New Zealand passport scandal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel–New_Zealand_passport_scandal

  560. Google does not give any hits. But I found this:

    To Whom Should the Jews Apologize? by Jerzy Robert Nowak
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44023607-to-whom-should-the-jews-apologize

  561. Thorfinnsson says

    The Greek government approached Washington, Beijing, and Moscow for assistance.

    All three told the Greeks that they were unwilling to go against the wishes of Berlin in what they perceived to be Germany’s sphere of influence. The Chinese went so far as to suspend planned investments into Greece at Berlin’s request.

    The American Treasury Secretary repeatedly pleaded with the Germans to stop ruining the Eurozone to no avail.

    Tsipras is an idiot but there was no American plot to weaken the Euro.

  562. And what is your opinion on Greek sheep guard dogs? How do they compare to sheep guard dogs in other Balkan countries?

  563. Lol, he is not even Jewish, just a very audacious Catholic pole

    He wrote an article called ‘ Za co Żydzi muszą przeprosić Polaków’ or ‘Why Jews must apologise to Poles’.

    His other books include ‘What Poland has given the world’ and one whose description reads ‘The cultural Marxist war against the Catholic Church in Poland’

    He has been accused of antisemitism by various liberal intellectuals as well as by the Polish Club of Catholic Intelligentsia and some Catholic clerics (including Archbishop Józef Życiński)
    His research and publications are centered on anti-Polonism and Polish-Jewish history and relations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Robert_Nowak

    The Polish version of the article is even better. He wrote a book exposing the lies of a Jewish historian about Jedwabane and the town granted him honorary citizenship. He also criticised Jewish writer Gyorgy Spiro for anti-Polonism, resulting in Spiro being prevented from presenting his book or doing research in Poland.

    Unironically based and redpilled.

  564. LondonBob says

    Hilary’s son in law Mevzinsky started a hedge fund whose purpose was to invest in Greek stocks and debt, implying that the Clinton people thought Greece would be rescued.

  565. Dr. Ewa Kurek: JEDWABNE – ANATOMY OF DECEPTION
    http://www.poloniainstitute.net/history-of-poland/jedwabne-anatomy-of-deception/

    Why Jews are afraid of the truth? Historical truth by Ph.D. Ewa Kurek! (Very powerful)
    https://gloria.tv/video/pVw8f8RHTbBF4P8gBPQEjv9iS

  566. German_reader says

    Dr. Ewa Kurek: JEDWABNE – ANATOMY OF DECEPTION
    http://www.poloniainstitute.net/history-of-poland/jedwabne-anatomy-of-deception/

    Sounds like hysterical trash tbh.
    Of course she has to bring up this

    for the Germans it was and is a tool to show Poles as partners in shared responsibility for the genocide of the Jews conducted by the Germans in Poland. Exhumation of the remains of Jews murdered in Jedwabne, and detailed study of historical events of July 1941, will remove from Germans and Jews once and for all the unfair weapons to fight Poland and Poles.

    which is just the usual Polish paranoia that is getting very tiresome. There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators. It’s something that only exists in the imagination of Polish nationalists.

  567. Why would Moscow or Beijing help Greece? You would have Russia sink money into a NATO, EU nation which elects American stooge after American stooge, and ends up with litteral Soros “left” of Syriza?

    In case you aren’t aware, a direct quote from Andrey Klimov – “Greece has never been our partner or ally in Europe. Greece is part of NATO, and that alone is enough”. This is an important historical claim, and a very important one taking the events of 1878 and 1913 into account.
    Greece has been instrumental in EU and NATO integration of Bulgaria and Romania, as well.

    Russian unwillingness to aid Greece has been vindicated by Greeks jumping on board of Skripal poisoning nonsense, as well as “Russian meddling” meme by expelling 4 Russian diplomats and publicly calling out Russians for “bribing Atos monks (!)”, or by Greece extraditing Russians to Ukraine.

  568. Šarplaninac and Serbian Defense Dog > lesser breeds

  569. There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators.

    Actually you are right. All Jews were murdered only by your immediate family who were 100% German to the n-th generation and nobody else was involved and if anybody thinks or says otherwise you will take them to court for dishonoring the honor of your murderous family. Germans are the most honorable murderers who would never shift the blame on anybody else.

  570. German_reader says

    All Jews were murdered only by your immediate family who were 100% German to the n-th generation and nobody else was involved

    That’s what this Kurek woman whom you just lauded enthusiastically would say, so I don’t see your point.
    There just isn’t a German campaign to shift Holocaust responsibility on Poles. It’s a made-up claim by Polish right-wingers so can live out their anti-German obsessions and feel all righteous about it. If you asked them for evidence, they’d bring up a few sloppy newspaper articles referring to “Polish camps”, and not much else.

  571. Ukrainians say the same about Germans. Amnestied their own Nazis but then prosecuted the Red Army veteran John Demjanjuk whom they essentially forced into service. The public prosecution of this man was seen as shifting the blame – see, everyone was involved, not just us.

    Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this:

    https://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-true-haters-1495#more-1495

    Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor — though not one living person can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk there.

    If Friday’s ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany’s sins.

    But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW.

    Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured — and Heinrich Himmler’s SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he ever was a camp guard — to punish in expiation for Germany’s sins.

  572. German_reader says

    Because the Germans voted an amnesty for themselves in 1969.

    Incorrect, exactly the opposite of what happened. In fact the statute of limitations for murder (which had previously been 20 years) was removed after intense debate, exactly because of the need to prosecute Nazi perpetrators:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte#Die_Verj%C3%A4hrungsdebatte_vom_26._Juni_1969

    Of course even many high-ranking German Nazi perpetrators were never really punished, but there were investigations and trials of German perpetrators, even recently:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning#Criminal_charges_and_trial

    I think the Demjanjuk case was a travesty and it was problematic that German prosecutors charged him. But on the other hand, Ukrainians shouldn’t complain too much. Ukrainian collaborators did go on an enthusiastic Jew-hunt in Lviv in 1941 after all, and unlike Demjanjuk they weren’t under any compulsion to do so.

  573. Thorfinnsson says

    Beijing was interested in Greek port facilities and related infrastructure. This has since been revived–the Piraeus port authority is now owned by COSCO.

    As for Moscow, I can’t find a reason why Moscow should assist Greece financially. I suppose there’s always South Stream, and who knows what Tsipras was pitching. In any case Putin told him that he had to go through Berlin.

    Moscow also pours money into black holes on occasion. Rosneft has poured billions into Venezuela it will never see again.

    Anyhow the original point here is that the Germans are the ones who wrecked the Eurozone, not Washington.

  574. All those trials are gay and fake.
    If you didn’t sentence people like Quandt, Reimann, Krupp, Thyssen (joke sentences, ownership returned), the obnoxious Speer and others who organised, encouraged and/or profitted extremely from forced and slave labour, war economy (BASF, Bayer and other IGF successors), going after non-ethnic German auxiliaries is a travesty.

  575. German_reader says

    the obnoxious Speer

    You may have a point in general, but Speer spent 20 years in prison.

  576. reiner Tor says

    On the other hand, Speer was tried and received a light sentence from the Allies. I don’t think we can point fingers at Germans for not punishing him enough.

    But I agree that these trials against nonagenarians (regardless of ethnicity – many were/are Germans) were travesties. These people were nobodies back then anyway, and no specific crime can be pinned on them.

  577. reiner Tor says

    Interestingly at least one of his subordinates was sentenced to death by the very same court in the same trial for carrying out his orders.

  578. Claiming to be a genius behind production increase and significant cost decrease (labour cost ~ 0) might have something to do with those unfortunate numbers of POW and forced laborer wartime deaths.

  579. I like Buchanan, but the idea that political establishment of Germany is seeking expiation for its sins seems crazy. Antinazism is in their blood. It was planted during the occupation, put through the harshest tests of evolutionary selection (politics) and found to be a useful tool to attain power.

    BTW, Germans have been so thoroughly endoctrinated, I wouldn’t be surprised if the cuckiest 10% would commit suicide, if asked by an African. (3% would probably kill their fellows, then commit suicide, like at Jonestown.)

  580. German_reader says

    I don’t think my comment could be read as denying Speer’s guilt. I merely stated that in his case at least you’re wrong that there was no prosecution at all.

  581. for-the-record says

    If it had been as simple as that, black ex-slaves would never have been given political rights after the civil war

    Well, to a certain extent they weren’t, at least in the South. And when the US was fighting Nazi “racism”, blacks couldn’t eat in “white” restaurants in Washington, DC. On a national level, the US Armed Forces were of course also segregated (until 1948).

  582. Others were trialled as well, but walked away with no/light sentences (Krupp), and even had ownership and properties restored to them.
    It was NATO Cold War policy of 1950s, propping up West Germany and integrating Reich industrialists and officers.
    Like I have previously stated, Germany has numerous people and companies to prosecute before having to resort to Ukrainian conscripts, if indeed it is after justice and atonement.

    Going after 90 year olds while having descendants of Nazi slave labour industrialists and war profiteers worth tens of billions of euros is distasteful – as simple as that.

  583. Since, Speer has been brought up, I must ask: is the allegation (made by Speer?) that Hitler had some sort of crush on him believable? I doubt it myself. Though I believe Mussolini called Hitler a pervert. There’s obviously been an attempt to emasculate him, ever since he came to power.

  584. “Our views were totally mainstream not that long ago” (and of course leftie critics of “AmeriKKKa” agree), but to me it seems more like those issues were always controversial in American society, with a strong and increasingly dominant strain of extreme universalism present from quite early on.

    In the 1920s the citizenship of thousands of (Asian) Indians was retroactively revoked because the supreme court determined that they weren’t white.

  585. They were from the time of Carter onward. Before that, not particularly.

    Wasn’t it Carter who began arming the Afghan Mujahideen, though? Also, Bush Sr. was the one who gave the Chicken Kiev speech.

    It smelled of socialism.

    It seems terrible to equate the social safety net with the Soviet Union, though. I mean, look at Lyndon Johnson–he fought the Commies in Vietnam while at the same time created a more secure social safety net at home with Medicare, Medicaid, and the War on Poverty.

    For the most part, yes. Ukrainians are the “Cubans” of Eastern European-Americans.

    Don’t younger Cubans largely vote Democratic nowadays, though?

  586. German_reader says

    Like I have previously stated, Germany has numerous people and companies to prosecute before having to resort to Ukrainian conscripts

    The people involved are all dead by now.
    And frankly, one can overdo it with sympathy for John Demjanjuk. It’s true that he was in an extremely difficult situation as a pow (though as far as I know, Ukrainians were in some ways often favored compared to Russians), but still, in all probability he was a guard at an extermination camp. That’s a rather extreme form of collaboration.
    I’m also unaware that there were many other trials of such low-ranking non-German collaborators before German courts, so this discussion seems rather pointless to me.

  587. for-the-record says

    I really wish someone would do an historical study about . . . the evolution and frequency of Holocaust language in print and fiction.

    Here’s a quick one using Google Ngram, and comparing the “popularity” of the following terms: Pearl Harbor, atomic bomb, appeasement, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, genocide, holocaust. The “results” suggest that the key decade was the 1970s, lending support to Utu’s thesis.

  588. German_reader says

    Holocaust as a term was popularized by the 1979 television series of the same name iirc.
    That doesn’t mean though the destruction of the Jews during WW2 wasn’t discussed before, one probably would have to look for many other terms like “Final solution” as well.

  589. for-the-record says

    Have Jews apologised for anything ever?

    For the “mistake” of sinking the USS Liberty.

  590. I agree that outwardly “There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators.” but there are undercurrents of insinuations and innuendos. Poles are irritated by the semantic game played by Germans when all the perpetrators became Nazis of unknown origin and nationality and that Germans considers themselves to be the first victims of those alien Nazis and then in the Jewish narrative who adopted this German semantic replacement the perpetrators are some unknown Nazis and very well known Poles. Recently Andrea Mitchel of NBC in Warsaw Ghetto said:

    Poland Wants Correction After NBC’s Andrea Mitchell Says Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Was Against ‘Polish and Nazi Regime’
    https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/poland-wants-correction-of-journalists-polish-and-nazi-regime-statement-1.6938221

    The Concentration camps can’t be officially called German camps while commonly they are referred to as Polish camps. Poles were upset by some parts of the miniseries “Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter” whee Polish partisans were shown only as antisemites. BTW, in Polish unsere=nasi so Poles twisted the title to Nazi Mothers and Nazi Fathers.

    Anyway you have tendency to concentrate on unimportant minutiae (Ewa Kurek talked about more important issues than what you picked.) because you do not want to face bigger issues. Keep in mind that Poland is fighting for its life right now with respect to Jewish financial claims and people are confused because their government is not straight with them. For instance somebody in the government came up with a ‘brilliant’ idea of demanding reparations from Germany. It is a very cynical move to awaken in an average Poles greed and a Jewish spirit of vindictiveness so they would become more understanding and sympathetic to Jewish claims. But the claim against Germany is just a bluff and nobody sane believes that they are made in a good faith but I am sure they are upsetting to Germans. It is just a posturing of the pathetic Polish government to manipulate their confused subjects on behalf of Jews. Imho Poland’s only chance is to be on a very good terms with Germany and they are blowing it.

    Many years ago when the communism was collapsing and finally people could talk about history I was learning some alternative narratives of WWII that were more congruent with my family histories (that included Auschwitz, Moabit, other KL’s in Germany and even with Gulag) I had a dream that there was window of opportunity that Poland together with Germany could rectify some of its history (after all there were archives in Poland no longer in control by communist and many witnesses still alive), thet history that was distorted in early years after WWII however quickly I found out that most Poles and most Germans are idiots and cucks like yourself and they do not want any rectification. German cucks like yourself want tow wallow in guilt forever and and do not want to share blame with anybody and most Poles want to play the innocent victims like Jews and the Jews want to be above it all and keep laughing all the way to the bank. I had a silly hope that Poles could help to absolve Germans from some of their guilt but apparently I must be an idiot as well.

  591. Philip Owen says

    Linguists claim to have found connections between Welsh and Berber. This could be the influence of the Atlantic trading network now supposed to be the origin of Celtic language or of population movement. I don’t know of any genetic studies.

  592. German_reader says

    Poles are irritated by the semantic game played by Germans when all the perpetrators became Nazis of unknown origin and nationality and that Germans considers themselves to be the first victims of those alien Nazis

    German cucks like yourself want tow wallow in guilt forever and and do not want to share blame with anybody and most Poles want to play the innocent victims

    You’re now starting to contradict yourself even in the same post…what’s it now? Germans claiming “The Nazis had nothing to do with us”, or Germans wallowing in their unique and exclusive guilt? Can hardly both be true at the same time.
    This discussion is getting increasingly retarded and your style of debate gets on my nerves. I think I’m not going to comment on issues related to WW2 or National Socialism anymore, it’s a pointless waste of time.

  593. Ukraine elections by region:

    Zelensky – dominates southern Ukraine but with significant support everywhere else.
    Poroshenko – wins in the West and his native Vynnytsia, and ties with Tymoshenko in the Center
    Tymoshenko – ties with Poroshenko in the Center (may have slight lead over him there)
    Boyko (Opposition Bloc, former Party of Regions) wins in the East

    The top 3 all want to continue pursuing the pro-Western course but Zelensky is less anti-Russian, being a Russian-speaking Jew (he did donate $1 million to the Ukrainian army when it really needed it in 2014 so he isn’t a pro-Russian puppet of Putin as Poroshenko’s ads will claim). In polls Odessans/southern Ukrainians are much softer on Russia than are western and central Ukrainians but, unlike eastern Ukrainians, prefer EU-oriented geopolitical policy over a Russian-oriented one. Zelensky seems like that, but even more strongly pro-EU because he is trying to appeal to western and central Ukrainian voters also.

    If Tymoshenko joins Zelensky, I decrease Poroshenko’s chances of winning the second round from 40% to 20%.

  594. Boyko’s voters will go en masse to Zelensky in the second round, correct?

    Also, why did southern Ukrainians but not eastern Ukrainians sour on the Eurasian idea after 2014? After all, eastern Ukraine was much more affected by the War in the Donbass than southern Ukraine was.

  595. The Taft court was based. They basically said that the Constitution doesn’t apply to Puerto Ricans.

  596. There is no organized German campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators. It’s something that only exists in the imagination of Polish nationalists.

    There is almost certainly an organised campaign to depict Poles as Holocaust co-perpetrators, however it is obviously not Germans who are leading it. This campaign is modelled on a similar campaign that began in the late 80s and early 90s against Switzerland that eventually led to that country being subjected to a very well organised and, sadly, successful shakedown from the highest levels of the US government. Angelo Codevilla wrote about this in his excellent book Between the Alps and a Hard Place as did Norman Finkelstein in The Holocaust Industry. I think the Poles are currently being tested for weakness. Polish provincialism – so typical of conservative people – combined with their sycophantic relationship with the US (and Israel) probably makes them look like an easy mark for a Swiss-style shakedown.

  597. Boyko’s voters will go en masse to Zelensky in the second round, correct?

    A lot of them will stay home but the ones who vote will choose him over Poroshenko.

    Also, why did southern Ukrainians but not eastern Ukrainians sour on the Eurasian idea after 2014?

    Their economy hasn’t done as badly with Ukraine’s reorientation as has the East’s.

  598. pointless waste of time

    That should not be a problem for you. You have already wasted most of your life as a cuck.

  599. That is interesting – definite acceleration during the 1970s and seemingly a bit of decline recently.

    The memorial in Hyde Park (1983) was supposedly the first public one built in Britain. But they are supposedly building a second one (!) in London in Victoria Gardens Tower. They are calling it the National Holocaust Memorial and presumably it will be the biggest one yet, at least in Britain. What is curious is that when they talk about it, they tack some of the other groups on, like gypsies. It will be interesting to see how long the LGBT string is, but I suppose they will spell everything out.

    My local one in Boston was built in 1995. I was very disturbed the first time I took note of it, and the nearby black heritage trail. It is definitely an attempt to grab the minds of schoolkids and tourists, and rewrite the narrative of the city into one of victimhood, when it was traditionally about freedom. It is all in imitation of the Freedom Trail, but for victimhood. A general reflection of politics. Indeed, the pols and clergy are generally there when the monuments are dedicated.

  600. Pat Buchanan took a break form praising modern Russia to write this

    Your snarky remark aside Buchanan was backing Demjanjuk way back in the 1980s and was clear at the time that the Soviets were framing him. He did this at some cost to himself as he was regularly smeared in US media for doing so. PB was also one of the few western pundits at the time to regularly mentioned the “captured nations” of the USSR. But I guess that’s not enough for some Eastern European nationalists with their passionate attachments to foreign states.

  601. Eastern European nationalists

    Calling me a nationalist doesn’t make me one.

    with their passionate attachments to foreign states

    As opposed to the passionate Anglo attachment to Muslims and non-Westerners as seen among North American and British Anglos (and now in New Zealand also) and as reflected in Anglo demographic shifts everywhere.

  602. Wikipedia has some lists, but they are definitely not precise. Might be generalist monuments included. Some are definitely missing, or multiple locations rolled into one word in Germany.

    I did a rough count of the ones in the US: 50. Many states aren’t listed, many have multiples.

    I suspect others are beginning to hijack the narrative. Quite amusing: they put up a monument to homosexuals in Berlin in 2008. Lesbians apparently complained, and wanted kissing lesbians on the monument, but there wasn’t much evidence for lesbians being persecuted. So, a compromise was reached. They would change the video of kissing homos to kissing lesbos every two years. A Holocaust survivor complained about the nearness of the monument to a Holocaust memorial, saying it did not give a sense of proportionality.

  603. A lot of them will stay home but the ones who vote will choose him over Poroshenko.

    That makes sense. That said, though, maybe Zelensky should promise to invest in eastern Ukraine in an attempt to get more Boyko voters to vote for him instead of staying at home.

    Their economy hasn’t done as badly with Ukraine’s reorientation as has the East’s.

    That makes sense in 2019, but this pattern was already visible even back in 2014:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/%D0%A0%D0%B5%D0%B7%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B2_%D0%B4%D0%BE_%D0%92%D0%A0_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B8_2014_%28%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%96%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D1%96%D1%8F_%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%29.png

    As you can see, the Opposition Bloc did best in eastern Novorossiya, worse in central Novorossiya, and worst in western Novorossiya in 2014. Why exactly was this the case? After all, the economic effects of the reorientation towards Europe weren’t yet visible in 2014–were they?

  604. BTW, the Boyko-voting areas are where Novorossiya should seek to expand in the event of a future war with Ukraine, correct?

  605. Gerard1234 says

    Ukraine elections by region:

    Zelensky

    HAHAHAHA………the idea of a cretin as yourself masquerading as some sort of “expert” on this election, or any Ukrainian election is grotesque in the extreme. Unlike you, I have been watching Zelensky’s comedy for years on KVN and Kvartal95. He like everybody in Ukraine, made his money off Russian audience, but when he switched to Ukrainian TV it made no difference…..because that’s what happens then there is one identical culture and people across 2 states you idiot. Even before he was announced as running for President – my Youtube was full of suggested videos from Kvartal95 involving him because I have followed for a while.

    Now, the embarassing spectacle of you talking about a candidate you know absolute nothing about, who has a serious chance of becoming the new President of Banderastan…..is comical, when clearly you don’t know anything about him, certainly had never hear of him before he announced he was running….and in general have f**k all knowledge about Banderastan…just copy and pasted fantasist drivel and fake arguments plaigisrised from Wikipedia and some moron like Motyl

    Russian-speaking Jew

    LOL…what’s this nonsense insinuation? That Poroshenko, Boiko, Tymoshenko don’t speak perfect Russian? Or have spoken it as the main language for the majority of their lifes at home and in public?…and probably still speak it at home when the camera’s aren’t home…Valtsman certainly talks like he’s thinking in Russian…and even the bastard head of this new fake church in Ukraine, inexplicably speaks in Russian when conducting a phone call done by Vovan and Lexus, pretending to be some german ambassador

    If Tymoshenko joins Zelensky, I decrease Poroshenko’s chances of winning the second round from 40% to 20%

    Outside of voter fraud…which with a compliant west, state apparatus behind him and no video cameras of all the stations ( unlike Russia) gives him hope….he has no chance you POS.

    Poroshenko – wins in the West and his native Vynnytsia

    having probably spent 5 hours composing your stupid post…it’s unlikely that even you didn’t know that this idiot Poroshenko LOST Vynnytsia, coming in third with less than 20% you POS. “Nearly coming second” is not the same as coming third you cretin.

  606. Hey, I have a question for you AP, are you in favour of Poroshenko remaining in power? If so, why?

  607. Calling me a nationalist doesn’t make me one.

    People may call you a Ukrainian nationalist for convenience, since calling you “that Ukrainian guy who longs for Intermarium” is a bit belabored.

    As opposed to the passionate Anglo attachment to Muslims and non-Westerners as seen among North American and British Anglos (and now in New Zealand also) and as reflected in Anglo demographic shifts everywhere.

    Judging by Ukraine’s demographic shifts, Ukrainians have a passionate attachment to non-existence.

  608. TFR in Western Ukraine is among the highest in Europe among white people. Among Sovoks it is the lowest.

    Sovok eastern Ukraine – the birth rate of Japan combined with the HIV rate of Africa.

  609. I don’t like him but he is probably the least bad option. He has a mixed record. No progress on corruption is a huge minus, but he has reformed the army, fixed the church situation and brought Ukraine closer to the West. I’m not sure Ukraine is yet stable enough for a Zelensky experiment. Zelensky also seems rather weak. But if he manages some corruption reform…

  610. After all, the economic effects of the reorientation towards Europe weren’t yet visible in 2014–were they

    Not as much as now but they were fairly obvious to predict.

  611. I guess it’s useless to speculate, as we’ll have the results soon enough, but I’m not sure that Poroshenko would be the worst option for Russia’s interests. He seems to be an impediment to anti-corruption measures, and the Ukrainian army corruption scandal that broke out not too long ago suggests that his failure on corruption is having negative practical effects on Ukraine’s ability to function as a state. EU membership isn’t coming anytime soon, and it doesn’t seem likely to me that Ukraine will be able to affect real economic gains under Poroshenko’s leadership

    Meanwhile, from what I can tell, Zelensky is pretty much a question mark. What if he turns out to be competent? Russia would be in a much more difficult position if Ukraine had a leader who was pro-western, willing to fight corruption, and able to deliver major improvements in the quality of life of the average Ukrainian. Poroshenko hardly fits the above description, except for the pro-western part.

  612. He seems to be an impediment to anti-corruption measures, and the Ukrainian army corruption scandal that broke out not too long ago suggests that his failure on corruption is having negative practical effects on Ukraine’s ability to function as a state.

    Corruption is certainly slowing Ukraine down. But it is functioning as a state. Economy has been growing 2%-4% a year for three years now, the army has improved immensely (albeit from a horrible base), foreign reserves are up to 2013 levels and foreign debt has declined from its peak in 2016. Its a very corrupt state but it is not a state of anarchy in collapse.

    What if he turns out to be competent? Russia would be in a much more difficult position if Ukraine had a leader who was pro-western, willing to fight corruption, and able to deliver major improvements in the quality of life of the average Ukrainian

    Two of the Maidan anti-corruption activists who were pushed out of the government by Poroshenko support Zelensky. This does not mean that Zelensky will necessarily actually fight corruption (it could mean those two Maidan guys have a tendency to naively attach themselves to people and then by discarded.

    But it is a question mark. The guy has no experience. He doesn’t strike me as particularly strong, yet he will be standing toe to toe with some very strong opponents. And he may very well be nothing more than a tool of Kolomoysky. But theoretically he has the potential to be good.

  613. David Davenport says

    The Taft court was based. They basically said that the Constitution doesn’t apply to Puerto Ricans.

    The “Taft court” was correct.

  614. Corruption is certainly slowing Ukraine down. But it is functioning as a state. Economy has been growing 2%-4% a year for three years now, the army has improved immensely (albeit from a horrible base), foreign reserves are up to 2013 levels and foreign debt has declined from its peak in 2016. Its a very corrupt state but it is not a state of anarchy in collapse.

    I never said that Ukraine was in a state of anarchy. I just said that the army corruption scandal indicates that corruption impedes the state’s proper functioning, which I think is self-evident. In the midst of a conflict with Russia, the son of a government official, who is connected to Poroshenko, was smuggling in sub-standard equipment from Russia, and then selling it to the national defense industry at inflated prices. Embezzlement of funds from the defense sector by government officials, in the midst of an armed conflict no less, is what I call a practical issue.

    As for the economy, I’m not sure that I would attribute any successes on that front to Poroshenko’s governance. It is in a fragile state, either way.

    But it is a question mark. The guy has no experience. He doesn’t strike me as particularly strong, yet he will be standing toe to toe with some very strong opponents. And he may very well be nothing more than a tool of Kolomoysky. But theoretically he has the potential to be good.

    My personal guess is that he is a corrupt clown, but you never know. If he turns out to actually deliver on some of his promises, it would create a problem for Russia. He’s photogenic and popular, if he can combine those assets with genuine accomplishments, he would make it that much more difficult for Russia to pull Ukraine back, as the government would then have significantly more legitimacy in the eyes of the public.

  615. reiner Tor says

    The Arbiter of Who Is a Cuck is a cuckservative who enthusiastically advocates punching right and is – in the best cuckservative tradition – proposing cooperation with Based Blacks eager for an alliance with white conservatives and nationalists, who are pretty numerous, albeit only in his imagination.

  616. reiner Tor says

    2 dimensional Nazis cartoons for ‘reiner Tor’

    I’m pretty sure you must have been reading someone else’s comments, not mine.

  617. LondonBob says

    I don’t think Victoria Gardens Tower will happen, there is a lot of opposition as it is a green space in central London, a Royal Park and a part of a world heritage site. That it was even proposed to build one, and right next to Parliament, is disturbing enough.

    I saw the one in Boston and also thought it was out of place with all the historic colonial and early American sites, also what relevance does it have to Boston.

  618. reiner Tor says

    Ukraine could’ve accepted Demjanjuk if they wanted to spare him the indignity of the trial in Germany. It was the case that he couldn’t be deported from the US for years because he was stateless and no country was willing to accept him. Then, years later, some German prosecutor came up with the idea that he could be prosecuted, and got the green light. Then they used his case as a kind of a precedent (German law is not based on precedent, but still prosecutors will look to past court decisions as a kind of guideline what they can do) to start prosecuting dozens of German nonagenarians, for example an accountant from Auschwitz. The accountant was forced to tell stupid lies, which is quite a bit of an indignity, he had to say he had no idea what was going on in Auschwitz. I mean, this was a bloody war, and he was probably happy that he wasn’t sent to the front, nor did he have to do anything gruesome, just accounting. Of course he knew what the camp was for. Everyone knew. So what. Jewish leaders in Hungary in 1944 knew, but kept spreading the lies to the Jewish community that they were going to be settled in an agricultural area where food was more readily available. Eventually the charges were dropped against most of them, though their contribution was probably greater than that of this accountant. The Jewish leaders had the same motivation as the accountant: they all wanted to survive. Jewish Council membership was better than being shot or sent to Auschwitz, and being an accountant in Auschwitz was better than being sent to the Eastern Front.

  619. for-the-record says

    I don’t think Victoria Gardens Tower will happen, there is a lot of opposition as it is a green space in central London, a Royal Park and a part of a world heritage site.

    On what grounds could anyone possibly object?

    A gently meandering path leads across a gradually rising hill, inviting ascending visitors for views of the river and Westminster. It is then revealed as a cliff edge over a fractured landscape, held up by tall patinated bronze walls which inscribe 22 paths – one for each country in which Jewish communities were decimated during the Holocaust. Both cohesive and fragmented, the paths are a shared experience only from afar; the journey through them is experienced individually, as visitors are led down into the threshold below – a space for contemplation and transition.

    The visceral, non-verbal experience, in close proximity to the bastion of democracy, may inspire future generations to connect the events of the Holocaust to other human tragedies of other times and places, and take a stance on wider issues of human rights and freedoms.

    http://www.ronarad.co.uk/resources/1369/03_South_East_017_project_image.jpg

    http://www.ronarad.co.uk/resources/1527/AJ004_0019326_View01_RAA_Edit_project_image.jpg

  620. reiner Tor says

    I don’t, in principle, oppose holocaust memorials, but I don’t think they should be at the most prominent place in cities, except if there is a connection. (E.g. if they shot hundreds of Jews at a location, then there could be a memorial, and if it’s the main square, then there.) I also don’t think there should be memorials across the globe. It happened in Europe, so the memorials should be there. Israel is an obvious exception, and Jewish cultural or religious organizations could obviously place plaques on the walls of their buildings on other continents, or even raise memorials in historical Jewish quarters, e.g. in front of a synagogue.

    Another issue is that the memorials shouldn’t be hideous.

  621. I don’t, in principle, oppose holocaust memorials, but I don’t think they should be at the most prominent place in cities, except if there is a connection. (E.g. if they shot hundreds of Jews at a location, then there could be a memorial, and if it’s the main square, then there.) I also don’t think there should be memorials across the globe. It happened in Europe, so the memorials should be there.

    They shouldn’t exist anywhere except maybe in Israel. Commemorating things which you (supposedly) did to other peoples is bizarre, probably psychologically unhealthy and no other race of people apart from Northern Europeans (and even then, under heavy Jewish pressure) would do it.

    But they especially shouldn’t be in London, where obviously no Jews were killed. The obvious thing to do if they had to (although I would also oppose this) would be to have something commemorating defeating Nazism or Fascism (like the memorial to the Communist volunteers in Spain, which at least has a good line from Byron on) but I suppose that would lack the implication of British people being guilty for something which is the whole point of the thing.

  622. reiner Tor says

    I think the virtue signaling benefit is basically nonexistent. In Hungary Richard Spencer was kicked out on Orbán’s personal decision after the liberal press created a minor scandal about the supposed neo-Nazi conference. After that the same liberal press published a few articles about how problematic it is that the prime minister could make such decisions to shut down this conference, racist or not, this suddenly became a question of liberty and human rights and maybe even freedom of expression. Okay, there were more articles about the horrors of the racist conference, so probably Orbán was better off this way, but the benefits either way were minimal.

    I’m opposed to gaining virtue signaling points by punching right. It’s also a kind of national psychopathy to not care for other countries in the same civilization. It’s also pretty shortsighted. The fate of Poland will be decided in Western Europe and the US. You cannot seriously believe that Poland will have a peaceful affluent bourgeois society with 99% white Poles with the rest of Europe in the state of a Lebanon style civil war among the different Muslim and African factions and the US under an anti-white half black Hindu president. We should at least do minimal damage to the people fighting this future there.

  623. reiner Tor says

    Commemorating things which you (supposedly) did to other peoples

    But that’s not entirely true. In most places you can argue that it wasn’t the locals who did it, at least they didn’t organize it. And Jews were at least to an extent part of the local community, even if there were issues with their presence and long term it would have been better if they left. Just an example, my grandma worked at a shoe factory. (A very small factory with little automation.) Her master (longtime boss who taught her the trade) was Jewish. She liked him a lot. Decades later she lamented his death, he committed suicide with his wife the night before they had to move to the ghetto. The Jews would be deported a few weeks later anyway. I find it appropriate that in the small city where this happened, and I grew up several decades later, there is a plaque where previously the synagogue had been.

    So it’s basically just a memorial to a group of locals who had been massacred by an occupying power. Yes, there were some local accomplices, but they didn’t organize it or conceive of the idea in the first place.

    Only in Germany can you argue that it was Germans who were the primary perpetrators, while the vast majority of the victims weren’t even locals.

  624. I have heard Spencer say before that it was alt-light/Breitbart people who contacted the Hungarian authorities to try and get him banned

  625. I suppose I can understand that justification

  626. reiner Tor says

    Then they must have contacted the Hungarian liberal press, too, because roughly a week or two before the planned conference the liberal press started to write articles about the horrible racist neo-Nazi conference. I’m pretty sure this was the decisive factor for Orbán, unless some foreign leaders or services asked him to do that. Alt-lite foreigners (basically nobodies) cannot have been more important to Orbán than the Hungarian liberal press.

  627. reiner Tor says

    Anyway, I seriously doubt that Orbán gained much by kicking Spencer and his conference out. Though Spencer was useless anyway, so probably not much was lost, but I just don’t like the idea.

  628. Kiwikiwikiwi says

    For those people here who think the concept of hate crimes is stupid, why aren’t these people criticizing Singapore, because its IQ is high?

  629. Actually, I will criticize Singapore: it is an IQ shredder. Its TFR is abominable. They should be breeding smart, high TFR Chinese and exporting them back to China to repay for the ones they absorbed and deadended.

    I’ll add I’d be perfectly willing to give some lipservice to multiculturalism, if it meant having a 74% Euro (more multicult than Han!) city state, with a nice harbor at a major bottleneck of shipping lines. Is there another one open for settlement in Malaysia?

  630. You cannot seriously believe that Poland will have a peaceful affluent bourgeois society with 99% white Poles with the rest of Europe in the state of a Lebanon style civil war among the different Muslim and African factions and the US under an anti-white half black Hindu president.

    It does not matter what I believe. The reality is as it is: we have government which is not as based as some in the West believed, a government which actually is ready to go for “we are not racists!” signalling whenever is the need, plus we have administration infiltrated by idiots educated in progressive universities.

  631. German_reader says

    Only in Germany can you argue that it was Germans who were the primary perpetrators, while the vast majority of the victims weren’t even locals.

    In Germany you’ve got that kind of commemoration in probably every major city:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolperstein

    At first I thought, ok, if German Jews were deported to concentration camps and were murdered there, the least one can do is commemorate their names. But I have to admit I’ve changed my mind about this and have come to resent those Stolpersteine. They not only commemorate Jews who were actually murdered, but also those who managed to escape to Latin America or some other Western country…no doubt being forced to emigrate because of racial persecution was a terrible experience, but was it really that much worse than what happened to many other people in the first half of the 20th century? And then you’ve got commemorative stones for lefties persecuted by the Nazis. Not even always killed, maybe just imprisoned (there’s one like that just a few streets from me). And not just for Social Democrats, but also for Communists (iirc there’s one even for Ernst Thälmann now). Were Communists really that much more innocent than the average NSDAP member?
    The intention to me clearly seems to be to perpetuate a community of guilt, forever, to turn all of Germany into a permanent memorial for Nazi crimes and to remind the descendants of the Volksgenossen (the majority of Germans during the Third Reich of course weren’t actively opposed to Nazism, and the NSDAP had eight million members by 1945) of the supposedly unique guilt of their ancestors, with self-righteous left-wingers appointing themselves as the enlightened teachers of the rest of us. The flipside of that is that pretty much any commemoration of German WW2 dead has been given up.
    imo there is a link between this increasingly warped culture of remembrance and what has been going on in Germany over the last few years. But it’s probably pointless to complain about things which can’t be changed.

  632. That they have four or more in Brazil is pretty bizarre. Once you are in another hemisphere, it really becomes odd, but maybe they should be thought of as monuments to immigration.

    I’ve come to think that political art (I will specify public monuments of special interest groups) will always be somewhere on the ugly spectrum. The reasons are various: firstly, it is kind of an ethnic con, like Madoff. The artist is often a co-ethnic, who has talked his way in. Jews, in particular, skew verbal. While they are often good at math, I think they are very seldom good at