PISA 2018 results dropping in a few hours.
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/
Use this thread for discussing them.
In particular, I am excited to finally get some definitive answers on the Ukrainian Question. (And Belarus).
UPDATE: The results are in. Raw data.
My classic IQ related articles:
- Through A Glass Ceiling Darkly: Racial IQ Disparities And The Wealth Of Nations (2012)
- Analysis Of China’s PISA 2009 Results (2012)
- Our Biorealistic Future (2017)
- Coffee Salon Demographics (2018)
- When All You Have is a Hajnal Hammer… (2018)
- The Idiocy Of The Average – And Why It Matters (2018)
- The Geography of the Noosphere (2019)
Those of you who can read Russian can also check out my article Русская Ноосфера: масштабный обзор уровня IQ по регионам России for Sputnik & Pogrom.
In the next few weeks, I plan to augment that article with the new data from Ministry of Defense online cognitive abilities testing, as well as the PISA 2018 results. Then translate/convert it into English for publication at The Unz Review.
This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.
If you are new to my work, start here.
PISA to look forward to is 2021 when India finally participates again, this time in a mixture of private, government, and military schools around a modern city of Chandigarh in North. The results of this test will show how much gas is left in the world economy tank. Is India next China or Indonesia or sub saharan Africa (2009 PISA scores)?
The 2009 test was given in 3 states with relatively high % of upper caste people (Tamil Naidu, Bengal, and Himachal) but only to government school students, which mostly get students from lowest socio economic strata.
The answer to Ukrainian Q is likely to be similar to India: high heterogeneity on populational level. Plenty of high IQ and lots of low IQ individuals balance each other, resulting in a slightly subpar average for a white country.
Will there be data by oblast?
I predict Ukraine will be like southern Russia on average, with positive outlier in Kiev, elevation in Kharkiv and Lviv, and negative outliers in non-Lviv western Ukraine like Transcarpathia and Volyn.
Just another reminder why winter is the best season.
Just a reminder to everyone that PISA changed their methodology significantly in 2015, and it made high-performing groups within nations (such as US Asians) and high-performing states(Korea, Finland etc) drop significantly in test scores, while boosting generally weaker countries.
A big interest of mine will be seeing if US Whites and US Asians are close in score, and if they are, that just means that there should be even further doubt about the post-2015 reports, given that US Asians are significantly smarter by IQ (as AE re-confirmed using NAEP data).
https://i.imgur.com/UntP7ON.png
This year’s special focus is reading, where Whites usually do better than average and Asians do worse than average. For math, the differences are quite large.
https://i.imgur.com/fBlTBaE.png
There is usually data for the combined score for all racial groups released, which is what I will be looking for.
Now if the US Whites & Asians are close to each other in combined score or if US Whites even outscore US Asians as they did in 2015 in combined metrics then more skepticism should be in place for PISA as a valid tool as it would fail a basic credibility test, given that virutally all other data in the US shows quite a distinct – and growing – gap. Not to forget that previous pre-methodology change PISA tests – such as 2012 – showed this gap, as well.
The expressed purpose of PISA – to facilitate comparisons so that best practices can be adopted in the low performing nations – is naked blank-slatism.
Is the expressed purpose the real purpose behind the test? If so, I don’t see how it could be a great proxy for IQ, especially over the course of time, as one imagines that there will be a drive to show some progress in the equalization process.
PISA has historically been fairly g-loaded, more so than TIMSS (which is usually better seen as a proxy for the educational quality of the system rather than the students themselves). I’m not saying the test is worthless. I’m just saying that post-2015 revision, it isn’t as rock solid as it used to be.
I hope the 2018 will adress these concerns by being more credible, One of the proxies is looking at the combined US White-US Asian scores. If they are close, even if US Asians are a little bit ahead, then that is concerning. There should be a significant gap, as was in pre-revision PISA editions (such as 2012). Another would be to see if high-scoring countries continue to fall for unexplained reasons whereas historical laggards (Brazil, Israel and up to 2015, Sweden) will continue to see unexplain upwards revisions despite all three countries having negative demographic effects.
In Sweden, we steadily went from one of the top performers in the mid-1990s until it reached a nadir in 2012. Then, suddenly, in 2015 we got a significant boost post-revision. Turkey was another country, as was Brazil and many others, whereas high performers got a cut downwards. You combine this with shocking fall of US Asian scores from 2012 to 2015 – at complete odds with all other tests in the US, including previous PISA reports – and suddenly the test isn’t as credible as it used to be.
Decent visualization of the results:
https://qz.com/1759506/pisa-2018-results-the-best-and-worst-students-in-the-world/
Official snapshot results http://www.oecd.org/pisa/PISA-results_ENGLISH.png
I blame our bad results on the fact that kids only memorize everything to get graded well and forget about it when it’s over, really
It seems to me that PISA explains less and less about the differences between countries in development and other areas…
How is Ukraine that close to Russia if it is poor compared to it, and how is it so far ahead of other neighbours with non-oil-based economies that were richer than it even during the ’90s, before any hope of attainment of conditions favorable for development,like access to EU market and so on? And no, corruption is not the amswer; at that time, the entire Eastern Europe was corrupt.
Like I give a fuck about PISA.
Lets compare Estonia, the top performing European state, and Serbia, the shitty European state.
Since 1993, Estonia has a grand total of 0 gold, 7 silver and 29 bronze medals at IMO.
At IPhO, they have won 6 gold, 19 silver and 37 bronze medals – they won a gold and 4 silver medals in 2012 when they hosted the IPhO – classic feature since hosts have a strong say in problem selection.
Serbia only started competing in 2006. Roughly half the participation count.
IMO: 14 gold, 26 silver, 30 bronze
IPhO: 4 gold, 20 silver, 31 bronze.
The average is largely irrelevant, since vast majority of workforce will not be thinkers but doers, following orders and implementing ideas devised by others. I would gladly take a society with a lower mean but larger SD – the top 1%-10% comparison between countries would be much more interesting.
I suspect East Asian average superiority would disappear without a trace in these comparisons.
These tests are worthless. Here in Croatia we got better or nearly equal results than Iceland, Israel or Switzerland- and we are Stone Age for them. On the other hand, Ireland is highly placed, but all people who have worked there say it’s one of the dumbest white countries in the world.
Of course, I’m talking only about Caucasians & non-populous countries.
Yet again it amazes me how highly Ireland manages to score despite the debacle that is our education system and the lack of any motivated high-IQ immigrant population e.g. Asians or Jews. Tá aois forlámhas an Gael seo chugainn!
I’m not surprised that Ukraine has scored low, no doubt any remnant of a solid education system leftover from the Soviet days has been decaying without repair. Belarus however, is unexpectedly low.
Previous evidence points towards Belarus having a slightly higher average IQ than Ukraine or Russia (whose IQ and PISA scores are dragged down by its 15% minorities no doubt), and to my knowledge the potato dictator has done his best to maintain the education system, so I’m very curious why they scored so low.
How come no results for Vietnam? They did quite well in 2015 and they participated for 2018 as well. As for Mainland China part of the reason for their surge is the replacement of mediocre Guangdong with top educational province Zhejiang
Could be, I came to a similar conclusion.
Balkan populations consist of really smart people and a bunch of retards, so the average is lower, yet there’s maybe 5 people with the “average IQ” then
Our bell curve probably looks inverse at this point
The decline of the German performance in the 2010s continues
https://twitter.com/AchimSpiegel/status/1201787759897264128
As noted above in the results for European countries there are obvious oddities (Portugal vs Luxembourg, etc.). But it is also possible that St. Petersburg and Moscow compensate for the Caucasus and Tuva.
Another explanation is that PISA tests show how the education system is adapted for the purpose of obtaining maximum results in PISA tests
Why Japan so bad and Sweden so good in 2018?
Russia has oil.
Eastern Europe was not nearly as corrupt as Ukraine in the 1990s. Also, Ukraine had (often non-Ukrainian) very smart thieving overclass. It’s neighbors didn’t have that.
So looks like Ukraine is indeed similar to southern (ethnic) Russia, given that this is the worst-performing part of ethnic Russia on other tests. It beats Slovakia (barely) and all the Balkans, but is lower than any other place in Europe.
This is sort of what I expected. Would be interested to see regional data.
In other news – whenever a Scandicuck starts lecturing others, just think of this
I expected Belarus to be similar to Russia, instead it is halfway between Russia and Ukraine. That was a minor surprise.
Otherwise, not surprised.
Ukraine is slightly below Slovakia, it narrowly beats it out in Reading and Science, but lags severely on Math. It is, however, amusingly, virtually identical to Turkey.
Turkey also beats Greece and all the rest of the Balkans (and Georgia and Baku).
For whatever reason math is Ukraine’s weakest point (although it still beats all the Balkans in this score). It does much better in reading and science.
So do you agree that Ukraine is probably equal to southern ethnic Russia?
He likes it. Sweden is getting more and more like home for him:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Rati.jpg
Rati (Sanskrit: रति, Rati) is the Hindu goddess of love, carnal desire, lust, passion and sexual pleasure.
Finno-Ugrics are Asians.
Guessing that Swedes painted over some pretty nice pictures during the Reformation.
Yes, in fact, as I recall that was my latest pre-PISA 2018 assessment as well.
Is that decline because it includes non whites being counted as Germans?
What do you think about China’s 2018 result ? It is the China’s advanced 4 region . But they have a 180 million population together (which is higher than Japan ) .
It is much more complicated than that. Firstly,oil prices started soaring only in the early 2000s; Russia was already richer than Ukraine in the 1990s, according to World Bank. Secondly, there was a thieving overclass throughout the Balkans too (each part of it focused on its own country), though maybe not as smart and not as foreign, but still competent enough to plunder everything worth it.
I think it might have something to do with urbanization, which is higher in Russia and Ukraine than in all the Balkan countries. Or maybe those education systems more geared towards obtaining higher PISA scores really do obtain them (though I doubt Ukraine did that, giving its other more pressing problems).
The Chinese results are ofc pretty worthless.
BSJZ is like taking New York, San Francisco, Massachusetts (Zhejiang), and one of the higher quality states e.g. Wisconsin (Jiangsu) and claiming the US has a similar cognitive abilities profile to Singapore.
Or, to take a Russian example: Only considering Moscow and SPB, Moscow oblast, and Yaroslavl oblast.
Visualization is eh, but the article itself is interesting.
Interesting the top 4 countries have abysmal fertility rates. None of the countries scoring well on this assesment has replacement level rates either.
Therefore, it seems if one wants longterm demographic stability the one thing not to do is have your people turn into a bunch of nerds. =]
They might be pretty interesting in the context of a longitudinal survey.
I wish I could see a full list of the questions asked to students in China. Suppose that they are all pretty hum-drum, but imagine if they asked social questions centered around fertility. If they are not doing it, they should be doing it.
This is untrue. Irish non-European immigration is much more selective than French, Spanish, Italian or German non-European immigration is. Your Nigerians (many of whom are Igbo) are much like those in the UK or the US, and the Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese and Brazilians you get also come from the well-off middle class of their respective societies.
PISA has had a major revision in methdology post-2015, so I would take any post-2015 result with a grain of salt. For Sweden, our media reported that we had the largest share (11%) of pupuls who were excluded because they were “newly arrived”. Our coverage ratio (86%) is not terrible, but lower than Russia (94%) and Germany (99%!). These are truly bottom of the barrel types. Had we had a similar coverage ratio to Germany, you’d have seen our scores tank.
Conversely, had Germany had our coverage ratio, they’d probably score close to Estonia.
Turkey’s coverage ratio is only 73%. Serbia is at 88% (higher than many OECD countries) and Ukraine is at 87%. Strangely, Bulgaria and Romania are both in the low-70s.
IMHO, there should be a cutoff at at least 85% coverage ratio. Some of the poorer countries like Albania only has a coverage ratio of 46% and Brazil is at 56%. Makes no sense to compare them to diligent countries like Germany or Russia.
I would say that Ireland shows a long history and focus on exceedingly fine details of verbal manipulation:
https://twitter.com/thespandrell/status/1200798868608176134
You know me too well.
https://i.imgur.com/veb5bXG.jpg
The ones with low cutoffs probably exclude low achieving marginals like gypsies or Kurds, so actual results for places like Balkans or Turkey would have been lower.
One one hand, this means the scores of Turkey, Romania* and Bulgaria may be artificially inflated. On the other hand the official results probably reflect performance of actual ethnic Turks, Romanians, Bulgarians, etc.
*In Romania’s case I wonder if high-performing Hungarians have been excluded, though.
One of the psychometrists (iirc Rindermann) came up with a formula to adjust the PISA results based on coverage rates, it is indeed an important consideration.
I’ll look it up when I write up a proper post about PISA 2018.
Incorrect. In 2016 there were only ~10,000 Nigerians, and while the number of Africans (mostly Nigerians) has grown considerably since, they are all recent arrivals and hence have not had children of the ages that would be tested by PISA.
In fact, this can be said for nearly all our minority groups. The vast majority arrived beginning in the early 2000s, PISA tests children ages 15-16. It is really only the British and some Eastern Europeans that will be showing up at all. As a recent graduate of the (woeful) Irish education system, I can attest that secondary level (13-18) is almost completely white and certainly vast majority Irish, while only primary level (5-12) is beginning to be populated by minorities.
So in conclusion, no, we do not have a highly motivated immigrant class. (Though we might in 5-10 years).
On a side note, our Brazilian demographic is are a little odd as the majority of them are middle class Brazilians of university age here to ‘learn English’ but simply stay to work.
This suggests that Sweden’s PISA result is a fairly accurate depiction of ethnic Swedes.
Truly, Nerds will not inherit the earth.
Hopefully Anatoly Karlin and others like him will realize this and begin to question their atheism and materialism and cease desiring to keep Russia in modernity and its attendant sterility.
I would like to see him stressing other virtues for his people for being intelligent is not the only key to life. But hey that’s just me.
Oh, really? In Russia every year there is a competition “miss student of Finno-Ugria” among the girls of Finno-Ugric ethnic groups., where compete in knowledge of native language, ability to sing native songs, the ability to write poems in their native language etc. This is not a competition for big tits and long legs, but a competition for knowledge of native culture. Here are the contestants
Karelians
https://c.radikal.ru/c03/1906/ec/9dd3633f0d1b.jpg
https://b.radikal.ru/b04/1906/fd/568c843283e9.jpg
https://b.radikal.ru/b13/1906/64/77aa583cca73.jpg
https://a.radikal.ru/a36/1906/1b/44b80ac85295.jpg
https://b.radikal.ru/b23/1906/d1/c7b77f51614e.jpg
Komi
https://a.radikal.ru/a25/1906/d9/3a9ae803a905.jpg
https://d.radikal.ru/d12/1906/fc/2951c6974c62.jpg
https://b.radikal.ru/b13/1906/05/bdc1b149ec52.jpg
Udmurt
https://c.radikal.ru/c37/1906/94/9237d4337364.jpg
https://c.radikal.ru/c19/1906/78/aa73be00e902.jpg
Mordovians
https://c.radikal.ru/c20/1906/0e/27336f313097.jpg
https://c.radikal.ru/c06/1906/c1/408bdcec955a.jpg
Mari
https://c.radikal.ru/c43/1906/16/0bbaed569c94.jpg
https://d.radikal.ru/d00/1906/53/afb098696278.jpg
https://d.radikal.ru/d06/1906/c8/e9d321fab8d3.jpg
https://c.radikal.ru/c32/1906/6e/19a3d4304b14.jpg
https://d.radikal.ru/d04/1906/f1/ba49c033e4f1.jpg
Ugra
https://b.radikal.ru/b07/1906/59/1746588aa772.jpg
https://a.radikal.ru/a16/1906/26/f9b9e62b20d5.jpg
https://d.radikal.ru/d00/1906/2e/bfbb1d8065da.jpg
There is a simple test-put these photos on the site of American racists (only separately, not all together), and ask if you (as a white racist) to go on a date with a similar girl. I think the negative answer will be only on Ugra
https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1201818623666524160
Certainly we have a rich linguistic history. Oral tradition has been a major part of Irish culture going back 4000+ years. This must have imprinted on our linguistic intelligence over time, hence your medieval anecdote and the litany of famous authors, playwrights, poets, emerging from a small population.
I would say we’re simply average when it comes to mathematics and science but undoubtedly there is some unusual aptitude for language here. I wonder if it helps explain the outsized success of the Irish diaspora in business, where interpersonal and communication skills are obviously very important.
You do have a highly motivated immigrant class borne out of selective immigration policies (the benefits of being an English-speaking island should never be discounted!). I wasn’t talking about just 15-16 year olds.
Still- Finns do have some “Asiatic blood” at genetic level (as well as Hungarians, where we used to joke about their-supposedly- higher cheekbones).
Is this it?
“However, low school attendance rates were adjusted. The formula used was PISA00k = PISA00-((100-PRP00)*2). The results of the adjustment were that countries with 90% attendance rate had 20 points subtracted; those with 80% attendance rate had 40 points subtracted. Other adjustments are conceivable.The adjustment formula used is based on the assumption that the scores follow a normal distribution from which the lower part has been deleted. For example, when the lowest 16%of a normally distributed sample with a mean IQ of 100 are missing, the mean resulting IQ will be 104–105 (or 529 on the scale used in PISA). The formula used subtracts 4.8 IQ-points or 32 points on the PISA scale from the measured average and leads to marginally larger adjustments than a formula that is based on the assumption that the presented scores follow a normal distribution. This is particularly true for extremely low school enrollment ratios, e.g. for 50% missing, the formula subtracts 15 IQ-points or 100 PISA-points, although in a normally distributed sample the resulting mean would be only about 12 IQ-points or 80 PISA-points higher. The assumption is that with very low school enrollment ratios, further factors such as poor nutrition and health care, low appreciation of education and of reading books, argumentation and thinking in everyday life, and intellectual simplicity of home environments and society will act to reduce IQ.” – http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/The-g-factor-of-international-cognitive-ability-comparisons-the-homogeneity-of-results-in-PISA-TIMSS-PIRLS-and-IQ-tests-across-nations.pdf
Is there data on how each percentile scored by country? Assuming all the people who are absent would’ve scored below the median, I think one could accurately calculate which percentile would’ve been the median given 100% coverage, without assumptions of normally distributed scores in multi-ethnic countries.
Of course, perhaps it’s mostly the smart fraction and dumb fraction that matters, and since the dumb fraction will be hard to measure given high absence, perhaps we should mainly pay attention to the smart fraction?
I’ve looked (page 21) at the native scores for reading. They break it down in three categories: 1st gen migrant, 2nd gen migrant and native. Even among the “natives” there will be some 3rd gen that are now mixed up with ethnic Swedes, but who are not separated out in the data.
Estonia: 528
Finland: 527
Sweden: 525
Canada: 525
Germany: 519
Korea: 515
Poland: 514
UK: 511
US: 510(!)
Norway: 509
Denmark: 509
Australia: 504
Taiwan: 504
Switzerland: 503
France: 502
Czech: 492
…
Italy: 482
Israel: 481 (and this with a paltry coverage ratio of just 81% – same as China)
Hungary: 477
Turkey: 467
Slovakia: 460
I can add that I guess that a significant share of 3rd gen turks probably depress Germany’s native score. My assumption is that they would rise to our current position if that wasn’t not the case. We also have a lot more 3rd gen migrants than Finland, who started their multiculturalist project about 25-30 years later than us, so my guess is that we’d probably reach a bit above them if we had their demographics.
Sweden has one of the highest score differences in the whole of OECD between native-immigrants. Not surprisingly. Interestingly enough, the US’ 1st gen immigrants do quite decently (479). Ours are at 410, and those are the counted one. Had we had a more honest coverage ratio, the score differential would have shot up far more. This also shows that US migration policies have become progressively more cognitively selective since the turn of the century, despite the rhetoric. That is a big whitepill for US civic nationalists and a big blackpill for “US about to collapse” crowd.
What I don’t understand is why Slovakia does so poorly. Gypsies cannot be the only answer, I doubt they are even counted. Their coverage ratio is only 86%, but they don’t have our large “newly arrived” population as an excuse.
But yeah, this is why I am somewhat skeptical of the new methodology. I’m still looking for the US racial data to see if there are any significant Asian-White gaps, as there should be.
I imagine that there is a big push in Germany happening right now to 1.) lengthen the school day, and 2.) to end selective track education.
I’ll bet young ethnic Germans parents are also talking about “good schools.”
Finnish and Hungarian people are well accepted in the white nationalist comunity.
It’s averages, though
You have the secret rare “high IQ breeder” types hidden in as well
Found it.
Reading:
https://i.imgur.com/XaTU9j1.jpg
Math:
https://i.imgur.com/2zbZuNY.jpg
100 points is one standard deviation. AE found about 1/2 SD difference in mean IQ based on NAEP scores. This is still too close to comfort, especially for math, where Asians show even higher proficiency on all the domestic data we got. Still, it is an improvement over the clown world results from 2015.
I am still critical, but somewhat less so, of the 2018 edition. But their shockingly lax standards on coverage ratios is still a scholastic scandal. Letting in countries with coverage ratios as low as 46% should be a non-starter in any academic setting.
“What I don’t understand is why Slovakia does so poorly. Gypsies cannot be the only answer, I doubt they are even counted. ” – Because sovok Beckows are in charge?
https://news.gallup.com/poll/268847/americans-say-weigh-200-lbs-decade.aspx
Disgusting body weight statistics from America. Fewer Americans now want to lose weight as well owing to the normalization of obesity.
The only good news is that weight seems to be plateauing. Average body weight only increased from 174 to 178 pounds in the past decade.
I really see no other cause for optimism either. Low carbohydrate diet enthusiasm peaked in the late 1990s, and the “paleo” trend peaked early in this decade. Keto and carnivory are enjoying moments currently, but these are too extreme for most people to succeed or even try them.
The dietary establishment has given up on low fat dogma, but refuses to budge on saturated fat or cholesterol. Awful advice to constantly snack goes largely unchallenged despite some interest in intermittent fasting. Things could get even worse if the “plant-based” diet fad continues.
Perhaps more significant than dietary issues is the widespread social acceptance of fatness. Normal weight people, especially women, are increasingly shamed for being “too skinny”. Healthy people are advised that they’re neurotic and have orthorexia. Moderately successful efforts have also been made to make chubby people socially regarded as sexually attractive. First the butt trend with women, and now the media is pushing the alleged desirability of “dad bods” in men.
The good news is that it’s never been easier to stand out from the crowd.
Vietnam’s original PISA score place them near head to head with industrial countries. But some experts start to revise it to bring in line with VN’s higher dropout rate, that brought VN down to Eastern European levels.
Still VN’s poorest student, who took part in PISA, still manage to beat the best ones from much wealthier countries.
It will be much more interesting to see their scores in the early 2030s when VN reached same level of development like current China.
I started reading the siberian curse
Dear god, these people are truly brainwashed. Muh free market muh free market muh markets hurrdurr
Ah I believe we just misinterpreted each other, I was simply speaking in the context of the PISA tests (e.g. motivated immigrant kids scoring above average as in the USA, Canada, UK, etc) and assumed you were too. We do have a highly motivated adult immigrant class, but there is no effect on PISA results was my point.
Didn’t Volhynia perform at the Ukrainian average in regards to its academic performance, though?
Also, what’s interesting is that Ukraine performs almost as well as Russia and Belarus here. Meanwhile, Serbia beats Romania and Bulgaria while Kazakhstan’s scores are really in the toilet this time around. I wonder why Kazakhstan severely underperformed this time around. Any thoughts on this?
Anyways, I really doubt the PISA tests mean too much. Countries will just put the system to getting the best scores and pretend they’re tough shit (this is never good long term, because, as in real life, acting like you’re tough shit means a shortened life span)
I remember a friend of mine, had terrible grades, didn’t care about school. Goes to america, gets excellent grades, says it’s piss easy. Don’t know about other countries, but I think I heard from someone that the same applies.
Fine by me tbh, anything that increases the total number of fat chicks is good by me.
Countries where 2nd gen immigrants perform better than non-immigrants
Macau 512 528
Hong Kong 529 533
Canada 525 535
Australia 504 523
NZ 510 518
Singapore 546 587
USA 510 512
Israel 481 493
Russia. 480 491
This here is a man prepared for the apocalypse.
No particular puzzles here.
I think Israel one is just a trivial explanation. It will be higher, because the second-generation immigrant sample is likely not including Arabic-speaking students (unless they also test family-reunion immigrants from the West Bank/Gaza).
Arabic-speaking students in Israel were not very good in the PISA tests last year – probably with Bedouin students lowering the Arabic-speaking school average (although they are now sending a lot of Bedouin to Hebrew-speaking schools in Southern Israel).
Second-generation immigrants sample score Utu posts, is lower than the general Hebrew-school PISA test score. So immigrants to Israel are worse at PISA tests, than Hebrew speaking Israeli students, but higher score than Arabic-speaking Israeli students.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-students-consistently-behind-developed-world-study-shows-609729
BSJZ has ~181m in total. Japan has ~126m in total. US population is ~329m.
You can read the literature which OECD produce.
Some of their ideas are interesting – for example, this idea to test how well students can identify fake news.
https://www.tes.com/news/chinese-students-better-spotting-fake-news-pisa
On the other hand, the questions in previous maths tests look really incompetent (just testing cultural conformity, rather than knowledge).
Ok. But why Sweden was so behind Finland in previous editions and in the 2018 edition the scores are close? Is it also also a matter of sampling?
By the way, who wants to test themselves on IQ? Solve mathematical task
The Hare is in the center of a round pond, on the Bank of which there is a Wolf. The Hare swims well, and the Wolf does not know how to swim, but the speed of the Wolf on the shore is four times greater than the speed of the Hare in the water. But the Hare runs on land faster than the Wolf. How can the Нare escape from pond in this situation?
https://interessno.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/mech-wolf-and-hare-1024×683-1024×683.png
I cannot give you any definitive answer, but here are my guesstimates.
Finland has paid its teachers very handsomely for a long time and being a teacher is a prestige occupation (comparatively speaking to Sweden). Here, when I was a kid, you could even have substitute teachers which were quite literally taken from the streets. I had a bodyguard as a sub teacher once and a bouncer. I’m not making this shit up. Parents were outraged but we had a lot of fun listening to their crazy stories. It was just for a few weeks, but it goes to show you how lax things were. Today, demands on teachers are much higher and there has been an effort to raise the wages (mixed success).
Sweden had a lot of (de)forms in the educational school system, dressed up as improvements. Just as Sweden has been very liberal on many issues, so it was in the school policies. You know all this talk about “soft skills” and “creativity” and “self-learning”. It made a huge impact here. We started to slow and then undo these deforms in the mid-2000s but most of them weren’t done by 2010-11 or so. It then takes some years to fully filter through.
I won’t even mention demographics, which are obviously significantly different between the two countries, but I don’t think it can fully explain the difference. Sweden had many deforms in the educational sector starting from the early 1990s which did a lot of damage. Some scars are still not fully healed.
velocity of wolf on coast = max. 4 * velocity of hare in water
As the hare swims in water with velocity v, the wolf runs with a maximum of 4 * v on coast.
In angular velocity terms, the angular velocity of wolf could match that of hare in water when the distance of hare from pond center is more than 1/4 of pond radius.
If we assume the wolf matches the hare’s
movement at all times, the the hare should swim at less than 1/4 of pond radius until it gets to a point where the wolf is on the opposite side (the wolf can’t match his angular velocity at below r/4 and lags as a consequence) – the hare should swim immediately to the coast – 3r/4 remaining. The wolf has to cover r*Pi.
The velocity difference is 4x
3r/4 / v < r*Pi / 4v
0.75 < 0.785
As the time needed for hare to swim to coast is lower than time needed by wolf to run half pond circumference, and once on the ground, the hare is faster than the wolf, the hare will escape.
Did I assume too much in wolf’s moving pattern or misunderstand the case?
100% agree irish people have an innate talent with words
Girls doing squats to get a fat ass isn’t the same as trigglypuff
Fkn homo
Bravo, the right solution! If the AP will doubt in your intelligence-ask him to solve a similar mathematical problem.
With an ak47
I’m surprised how high the UK scores considering the native British are widely considered among the dumbest people in Europe.
I would have expected Britain to be low down the list in Europe because the general perception in Britain is that British state education is low standard and Europeans are much more intellectual and academic than British people are. I find it very surprising how well Britain compares with the rest of the world because British people in general do not perceive themselves to be a well educated or academic country at all.
I don’t care about these tests, but here are the numbers:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/global-test-widest-educational-gap-between-hebrew-arabic-speaking-israeli-kids/
…………….
In the PISA tests, Hebrew speakers scored 506 points in reading skills, the same as the previous assessment. However, Arabic speakers scored just 362 points, a drop of 29 points.
The OECD average is 487 points, with the overall Israeli average at 470 points.
In mathematics, Hebrew speakers remained at 490 points but Arabic speakers scored 379, a drop of 12 points. The OECD average is 489, with Israel’s average at 463, down seven points.
Finally, in the sciences, Hebrew-speaking Israeli students remained at 491 points, while Arab students dropped 26 points to 375. The OECD average is 489 points and Israel’s average is 462, down five points since 2015.
Overall, PISA showed a gap of 144 points in reading, 111 points in mathematics, and 116 points for sciences between Hebrew and Arabic speakers.
so this is the inteligence of the anti brexiters?
lol
Must be systemic racism at work in Israel. After all, what else can it be? /s
Non-intellectual doesn’t mean non-intelligent.
This is ironic considering that a lot of immigrants to Israel are Soviet Ashkenazi Jews while a lot of native Israeli Jews are Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews.
Yep.
I know a mother who constantly pressures her 14 yo daughter to eat because she is terrified of anorexia. The daughter is chubby and knows it, and desperately wants to eat less. But her mother instantly notices when she does that, and puts enormous emotional pressure to eat more. Tells her she will get stomach aches and health problems if she doesn’t eat more.
Everyone in the family is overweight. The mother insists the 14 yo is at perfect weight.
In America, with 70% overweight, in an overweight family – the real fear is anorexia.
If I try and intervene, the mother panics – there is very real anxiety there.
Aight, i retract my statement of whatever results in increase of fat girls is good, that’s extremely shite and results in bad mentality
Just remember that ‘Hebrew speakers’ does not include Haredim/ultra-Orthodox, which do not even take the test. This is why Israel has a fairly low coverage ratio (81%). If they had been included, the scores would have gone down even more.
I wrote a longish comment on Israel’s demographics some time back. The basic story is that “3rd world populations” – Arabs and Haredim – are massively growing at the expense of the non-Orthodox jewish population which is that country’s economic engine. Israel’s already increasing brain drain is likely to get worse as these 3rd world populations get larger and larger and the burden of economic activity falls on ever fewer shoulders.
PISA seems like such a missed opportunity, IMO.
What one really desires is a HBD-centric test and survey designed by the likes of Karlin, Sailer, and Cochran. Not only for comparing countries, which in itself is very interesting, but perhaps for internally comparing personality types of students – nerds vs. jocks, etc. And I think it would be really fascinating to ask the girls how many children they intend to have, to collate it by test score – and then one can hope in an authoritarian country like China, a longitudinal study, where they follow up one and two decades later.
But to read the actual survey questions – at least the ones they ask in the US – it is very boring stuff, almost like when they ask you how many TV’s you have on the census.
This is the problem when the test seems designed mainly to measure development and not to entertain us, or to ask (and perhaps answer) existential questions about society, like why smart people not having many kids.
Ugh, the last time I studied I studied physics was 4 years ago and that was a basic level, so imma eyeball it
The hare should go straight forward toward the exact opposite side of the wolf. The wolf shall start going around the pond. Depending on which side the wolf takes, the rabbit should then either start slowly curving his path to the left or right (opposite of the wolf, of course). The closer it gets to the shore the more it should turn.
This should allow it to get to land just in time, and escape from the wolf
Couldn’t brain drain plus severe overpopulation in Israel ironically have a positive outcome in setting the stage for eugenic fertility (Malthusian selection) to reemerge there earlier? If so, we could see a Farewell to Alms effect in Israel similar to what occurred in England during the second millennium when its smartest people apparently consistently reproduced more than its duller people did.
the asian american results are out of the table
in reading they score 20 point more than euro american and 50 points more than japan and korea and even the highly selected chinese for the smartest areas are bellow them.
selective inmigration ?
But Israel’s high IQ smart fraction is also the only one in the developed world that is also growing.
Sweden’s is shrinking 🙂
In 20 years from now, Sweden will have fewer smart people – Israel will actually have more.
So no – the burden of economic activity will not be falling on fewer shoulders, but on more.
Yeah, whatever is making Americans fat, it isn’t healthy.
Anxiety seems to be a big part of it. Also not eating in a natural way, according to appetite and taste, but always eating according to some scientific theory of what is good for us. Fatness seems to be nature’s way of telling us to listen to our bodies.
People in thin countries always eat naturally, according to appetite and taste, and never according to some scientific theory.
And also because Americans are utilitarian and don’t care about aesthetics and other “intangibles” – after all, beauty isn’t utilitarian.
The good news is that America is changing – a wealthy class that appreciates the finer intangible things in life is emerging.
In Britain, it used to be said there are two nations that have nothing in common – the rich and the poor. And it was well known that no one was more coarse and loutish than the British lower classes, while no one was more elegant, refined, and educated than the British aristocrats.
A similar arrangement is emerging in America, more extreme than in other countries.
These results are quite different from TIMSS. Turkey is over-performing in this, especially considering over half their students scored the lowest benchmark possible in TIMSS, but an equal percent scored the highest benchmark as countries like Serbia and Bulgaria.
Malta is scoring low compared to the past too.
Arab Christians in Israel do quite well though. In fact their high school students performed better in exams than the Jews.
Croatia police take unusual initiative re migration
Croat police officer sees black man, asks him for papers … 2nd black man steps up to support fellow Nigerian, also doesn’t have papers … call for back-up, a police van arrives … the police drive the Nigerians out of town to the forested border with Bosnia-Herzegovina, pull out a gun, and tell the Nigerians to start walking into Bosnia, where they end up in an international migrant camp
https://zurnal.info/novost/22588/croatian-police-kidnapped-nigerian-students-and-transferred-them-to-bih
good news for the jews and hell for everybody else and america itself
america was a nation of adventurous builders not a nation of merchants.
the america you are describing is basically the post 1960 america or in other words when jews displaced wasp as the ruling class ,america is the children that jews have been nurturing for 70 years and with the end of the old wasp elite the space dream died with them sustitued by a much more mercantilized souless and pragmatic society .
is not strange that in the japanese ,european or even indian caste system merchants were considered the lowest form of life , you only need to look at the current america to understand why.
Illegal Nigerian students in Croatia?
But if the West is poaching it, then this is going to be less good news for Israel than would have otherwise been the case.
Yeah, but he was lynched not because he was a Finn, but because he refused to fight in World War 1.
Which is actually one of the dumbest possible reasons to lynch someone.
Imagine being so gay that you support Woodrow Wilson’s war effort. The people who did it must have been proto-boomers.
As an Anglophobe* who believes firmly that this country went to Hell precisely when our Eastern Establishment forced us to abandon a measure of foreign independence for alliance with the Whore of London, I agree completely.
Also, I am of middle class origins and will probably never be wealthy. I am, young, thin, and healthy, and I am attracted to normal and healthy women.
In a past century, I would have been a smallholding farmer, but American elites decided in the 1930s to destroy the farmer, the basis of our republic, in favor of becoming an oligarchy. (And I don’t want to hear any bullshit about “mechanization” either) Now I am just an “Average Joe.” But an Average Joe could get a nice wife – until after the 1970s. Now, it’s hard. Let no one get false impressions: it is immensely difficult for a normal man to find any normal woman in this cursed Judeo-Protestant country. But now! Now you add in the fat part, and it’s simply absurd how hard it is to find dates, let alone wives.
The problem is simple: yes, it’s easier for me to attract some quality women because I, unlike most people today, am not a disgusting fatass. On the other hand, there are simply far fewer opportunities than there reasonably ought to be.
However, I can’t complain too much – at least I’m not a disgusting fat slob or, worse, a rich Democrat whore, a slave of this Jewish imperium, whose soul is bound for perdition in spite of their good looks and health.
Let me re-write this to make it more reflective of reality:
I believe firmly that there ought always to be an elite in any society. But elites ought to use their wealth and power to help others live more virtuous lives. We did once generally subscribe to such a concept here in America. No more.
Sorry, my friend. This is the way of the world.
In America, a new elite is emerging. It is Jewish, elite White, and Asian. Increasingly, these three elements are intermarrying and fusing into one body with a common identity.
Over time, this new elite will become a semi hereditary caste – but always open to genuine fresh talent from the lower classes.
This is a good thing – over time, this elite will develop a sense of obligation towards the deplorable poor. I agree that they should be treated better. But they really are deplorable. It’s not really a question of money, either.
As the new elite solidifies and grows comfortable, I believe it will grow more benevolent and develop a more natural relationship with the masses.
A certain amount of class warfare and exploitation is inevitable, but the lack of a clear hierarchy and the myths of democracy make class exploitation especially acute today.
The West isn’t really poaching this talent.
Today, talent is more globally mobile, but most Israeli talent retains a strong connection to Israel and move back and forth between Tel Aviv and other global tech and science centers, perhaps creating the illusion of brain drain. But it is really cross fertilization and leveraging that is of tremendous benefit to Israel.
Israel seems only to be getting wealthier and more technologically capable.
What’s more, the significance of a smart fraction that is actually growing is huge. It means these talented people are tremendously motivated and optimistic, more vital and likely to have more of an impact, than a smart fraction that is too lacklustre about life to reproduce.
The contrast with a country like Sweden is instructive. Traditionally, the lusty and crude lower classes reproduce most, while a healthy and optimistic upper class reproduce less, but still a decent amount.
In Sweden, the lusty lower classes are so depressed they actually reproduce less than the upper class. But the upper class is also too depressed to reproduce itself.
The entire country has lost faith in life.
In Israel, all classes are optimistic about the future, and reproduce at high levels.
it is immensely difficult for a normal man to find any normal woman in this cursed Judeo-Protestant country.
Your fellow Catholics did not have this problem when America was still American (ie., Anglo-Protestant). Looks like your hundred year alliance with Jews and every other malcontented minority against the big bad WASPs didn’t work out well for you guys. Should’ve let things be.
But why though? Transcarpathia has more Balkaners but it also has more Central/Western Europeans, it should be about the same
I can’t fathom why you assume “the elite” isn’t already solid and comfortable.
I also disagree that there’s anything particularly “new” about them either.
In general, your comments strike me as almost incredibly naive.
Both Belarus and Ukraine had far larger brain drain on them than Russia… Much of which was directed towards Russia.
You are, as they say, full of it.
Our hundred year alliance with the Jews? That’s cute.
There was, in the whole history of this country, only one institution to consistently and decisively stand up to smut in the movies – i.e. Jewish control of Hollywood – and it was the Catholic Church. Hollywood’s subsequent “golden age” was made possible because serious and powerful Catholic threats to boycott smutty movies forced the Jews in California to make relatively artful movies. (I have to give partial credit to Protestants in the Midwest, like the Zondervan people in western Michigan, but it was the Catholics in their industrial ghettos who made the big push. Both of these two types of people were largely destroyed politically by Rooseveltism and subsequent subversion.)
Moreover, let me ask you something: who was it who the disastrous proposed American entry into both world wars? Was it the Catholics? Or was it “the WASPs”?
As David Carlin argues in his book, ‘The Decline and Fall of the Catholic Church in America,’ we failed to be prepared for the opening of our “ghetto” to the world. But that mistake, though celebrated and abetted by outside forces (like Henry Luce), was ours alone; we did not compromise with the Jews. They sought to destroy us, not ally with us.
I don’t particularly care to recount the whole history of this country’s relationship with Jewry, but unlike England, which once had Protestants (The High Tories) even nominally opposed to Jewish domination, this country’s Protestants have always tended to be exceptionally ignorant of history, and all too fond of “pragmatism.” I do not know of a single Protestant equivalent to Father Charles Coughlin. It was not the Catholics who are responsible for this country’s disastrous decisions in the middle of the century. Historical facts will not support you.
corrected typo
call me weaboo but this is the way of the world
https://imgur.com/a/s3YGTKn
and when you break the natural order grotesque creatures like america appear in the horizon ,the age of the warrior is not over it has only let enought space for the tumor to manifest itself in all its decadent perversity and purificate it once and for all so a new golden age can born .
You’re not entirely wrong, but you may not realize that under today’s conditions many of our tech and business titans are in fact warriors.
What the founder of Uber had to do to get established is warrior. Trump business style is warrior. Zuckerberg business style is warrior. Amazon business style is warrior.
You just have a hard time recognizing warrior under modern technological conditions. Our elite are not at all the traditional conception of a merchant.
Today, the merchant mentality is far more characteristic of Germany, Japan, and China, selling merchandise, cars, electronics, and cheap manufacturing, then it is of America, based on boldly conquering the heights in various fields, disrupting established ways of doing things, etc.
There is a reason America is still on top.
The decadent and effete WASP elite has only been decisively defeated and replaced a decade or two after WW2.
That ruling class had totally lost its vitality and will to power, and thus its legitimacy and right to rule.
The new elite is still taking shape, and is only a few decades in the making. It takes time.
Don’t feel bad about the WASPS. Ruling elites always grow effete, and need to be replaced from time to time.
The Ellis Islander political coalition (Judeo-Catholic) for more immigration, which began in the late 1800s, was a greater factor in American decline than the two world wars.
See
#Table I.B1.5
#Mean score and variation in mathematics performance
#|Mean score | Standard deviation | Percentiles
#|5th | 10th | 25th | Median (50th) | 75th | 90th | 95th |
the average Math Score for the country’s 95 percentile smart fraction
Rank | MathPctl95 | Country
1 716 | BSJZ.China
2 713 | Singapore
3 696 | HongKong.China
4 686 | ChineseTaipei
5 685 | Macao.China
6 684 | Korea
7 668 | Switzerland
8 664 | Japan
9 664 | Netherlands
10 661 | Canada
11 661 | Poland
12 657 | Estonia
15 651 | UnitedKingdom
17 650 | Germany
18 647 | Sweden
27 639 | Finland
28 638 | France
30 636 | OECDtotsample
32 634 | OECDavg
33 632 | Israel
36 629 | UnitedStates
38 627 | Russia
40 625 | Ireland
43 619 | VietNam
It was part of Hungary rather than Austria like Galicia. Galicia achieved full literacy of school kids by 1910, a generation or more earlier than Transcarpathia. Transcarpathia still has the lowest % of people with post-secondary education in Ukraine. So I suspect its PISA score would be lowest in Ukraine.
From the JP article you linked:
First this tells us that there are 3 times more Hebrew speakers than Arab speakers (0.75:0.25)
Second the numbers we get from the Table II.3 on page 21 (click on the bottom of page 21 to get table in Excel) in the link from Hindu Swede:
seem not to add up. They should break the numbers into Hebrew and Arabic non-imigrants and immigrants but I thought they do not have significant number of Arabic immigrants and assumed that the 1st and 2nd gen immigrants must be Hebrew speakers and thus if we compare them with the JP number of 506 (where JP got it form?) we may conclude that immigrants while better than Arabic speakers are worse than native Hebrew speakers which is not what AK was or I were thinking.
Anyway, when it comes to Jewish matters it is always so more complicate by Jewish obfuscations of their shenanigans that a goyishe kop can’t figure it out.
is not only a question of WHAT you want but HOW you want and that choice end up configuring a completely different society , the competitive nature and the will of power of the merchants doent make him a warrior but the values he embrace and the way he life to achieve that success and no im not speaking of brute forze
maybe the modern equivalent to america would be carthago that founded economic colonies all over the mediterrane and made them depedant of the capital not as much because of their warrior ethos but their economic slavement to the capital
in the end the natural order prevailed
america delanda est
Compare Czechia (part of Austria) to Slovakia (part of Hungary).
The traditional contempt for the merchant was based on the fact that he did not take large risks or face danger. He was petty. He played it safe and had no grand designs.
Anyone who takes risks and courts danger has the mentality of a warrior, ipso facto.
In Greece and Rome, a distinction was made between the petty merchant, who was not respected, and the great merchant who risked all on grand designs, who was considered the equal to the warrior.
In modern times, especially since the advent of nuclear weapons, its hard to achieve great power and distinction through a military career. The warrior spirit must find expression in other fields.
Israel has been to some extent an exception to this, and its greatest warriors have often gone into business. Ehud Barak, Israel’s most decorated soldier, went into business after his army career and said that he found it thrillingly similar to warfare.
This guys story is typical for Israel. From elite military warrior to elite business warrior and tech titan – https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2013/05/21/the-tech-innovator-who-almost-killed-saddam-hussein/amp/
Now, all the grotesquerie you see in modern America is ephemeral – it is the birth pangs of a new order. The old Protestant culture has become rigid and sclerotic and no longer vital. It needed to die. What will replace it has not yet fully come into being. The current insanity is a transitional phase – necessary to break down the old culture. But it isn’t final. The new culture however will be considerably freer and more interesting than the dull Puritanism that had lost vitality.
Go read up on statistical sampling methodology. The PISA country sample are not random sample but follow statistical sampling theory to give a representative country sample that is a valid proxy of the country cognitive profile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)#Sampling_frame
Beside, the PISA 2012 Shanghai sampling was validated by a US company Westat, I suspect OECD will still continuing sub-contractng the Chinese country sampling to the company in the country that make the loudest accusation,
https://oecdedutoday.com/are-the-chinese-cheating-in-pisa-or-are-we-cheating-ourselves/
http://ncee.org/2013/12/response-to-the-brookings-institution-attack-on-pisa/
The US 2012 PISA sample only came from 3 states, Connecticut, Florida and Massachusetts, nothing from the MidWest or Pacific Coast, nothing from the southern significant Black states. Using your assertions, the US 2012 PISA sample might also be biased. Again, go read up on how an representative sample resembling the national cognitive profile can be derived.
From the US PISA FAQ, the US consultant Westat select the schools for every participated countries, and the Australian organization ACER select the students for every participated countries. If it is so easy to fudge the sample why did India withrew from the PISA survey??
Interesting! Ireland went down and Israel and Russia went up. Dmitri and Karlin, respectively should be happy. And Poland, Estonia and Canada pretty much unchanged whether it is by the mean or by the 95 percentile ranking position.
Is I E Irodov ‘s Problems in General Physics still used in Russian high schools ?
Is IE Irodov problems in general physics still used in Russian high schools?
Huh?
Poland is the top performer in Europe among normal-sized countries.
Estonia, Finland, and Ireland (average population about 4 million!) are
too small to draw any inferences. Poland is large enough to have normal-
sized hinterlands and it does have an underclass.
First, the Hungarian-majority regions are in the bottom quarter of poverty. These are 2 out of 40 counties. Also, the ethnic Hungarian vote share has been at 6% since ethnic votes were allowed in 1990. Hence, the weight of the Hungarians cannot be more than 5-6%.
Second, since 2017, more Romanian children are born in Western Europe than in Romania. Yes, PISA tests older children, but emigration did not start last year. Only retards are breeding at home. That, of course, include the highly performing Hungarian-speaking retards, who could have moved to Hungary, rather than whining abut muh rights, were they not severely retarded.
Your post is reminiscent of the old joke about the superiority of the Soviets. Every country had midgets, but USSR had the tallest midget in the world. What’s so special about the Hungarians, when their homeland is at Israel level?
Estonia’s population is around 1 million, 25% of which is ethnic Russian underclass.
The Russian soul is very Sikh-like – a love of egoless martyrdom, a mystical streak in Hesychasm, an upbeat, boisterous martial culture with an undercurrent of melancholy.
Brahmin-Parsi (mother) friend responded with this when I mentioned this Russian Blonde (most beautiful girl I’ve seen) who liked Sikh bois (Turban + Beard)
Our own AK is like the Panjabi AK.
Never posts enough..
‘In Israel, all classes are optimistic about the future, and reproduce at high levels.’
That’s why forty percent want to leave.
Swedish-language high schools dominate best results list in Finland
7 out of the top 10 best high-schools in their national sample (350) are Swedish-language schools. Fenno-Swedes are around 5% of the Finnish population. Pretty remarkable. The reasons are two-fold. First, it is easier to learn English as a Swede than as a Finn. Something Jarkko already mentioned in passing when discussing clerical literacy when taught in Old English and Old German.
Second, and perhaps more interestingly:
Punjabis are stereotyped as more masculine than most other Indians. Sikhs are notoriously connotated with the armed forces in India, perhaps even more than Rajputs, in no small part because Sikhs are often much taller. One can only imagine the terrified anguish any Hinducuck feels when confronted with Sikhs.
https://i.imgur.com/3LgpyUG.jpg
OTOH, this masculine culture has its downsides. Punjab is engulfed is a drug crisis, so much so that a perfectly decent movie was made about it a few years ago.
One thing I don’t understand is why do so many Punjabis choose Canada in particular. A huge share of Indo-Canadians are Punjabis.
Every Olympic gold medallist in men’s water polo since 2000 was born within the marked area.
https://i.imgur.com/HKnVj2W.jpg
What’s up with Balkans+Hungary and water polo?
Smart and educated people in Israel are having more children than in any other developed country.
Clearly, something about life in Israel makes smart people very happy and optimistic about life.
Whatever that quality is, it is lacking in Western Europe.
I think Europe should send teams to study Israel to find out what makes people happy and optimistic. But part of being depressed is being too apathetic to do anything about it.
Could you also extract reading and science 95 percentile data? I can’t locate Table I.B1.5 in PISA materials.
Might the smartest Subcarpathians have moved to Galicia over the last 150+ years? After all, there is more to do in Galicia than in Subcarpathia, no? It certainly doesn’t have a huge city comparable to Lviv, after all.
I thought you were not so stupid about this topic. High score in PISA is not very useful, especially for maths – as PISA maths exam is testing a kind of cultural conformity, or perhaps cultural intelligence, rather than maths knowledge.
If Russia is improving in maths in PISA, we know this is not a sign of anything useful, as the proportion of students studying maths declines each year, and the even the split the exam.
Maths education in Russia – including proportion of students studying maths – is collapsing, in a disastrous way. However, it is collapsing from a high level. Until recently, Russia had one of the highest maths education at school level in the world, good textbooks, exams, high participation, etc.
In Israel, maths education has been reportedly improving (however this improvement was from a very low participation level).
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Record-number-of-students-pursuing-high-level-math-in-Israel-480944
Dmitry, when I said that Israel and Russia went up I meant that they moved up comparing to their means, meaning their smart fractions are better (in international ranking) than their means. Did you parents ever told you were dull?
Some of those missing (5%?) are ethnic Hungarians. Learning Indo-European languages is roughly as difficult for Magyar speakers as it is the other way around, and Slavic languages are probably the most difficult among all the Indo-European languages. Or they will simply underperform, dragging down the average.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Gypsies were over 20% in Slovakia (or Hungary, for that matter), so that not nearly all of them were filtered out.
The exact ratio of ethnic Hungarians in Slovakia is 8.5%, but it might be lower among schoolchildren, and some of them attend Slovak schools. But maybe all of them were excluded, and maybe their portion among schoolchildren is not lower than among the general population, which would mean that even if Gypsies stand at 10-12% (almost certainly higher), not all of them are excluded. There are even some Ruthenians who might be excluded based on their non-Slovak mother tongue, so the number of excluded Gypsies would be still lower. The 86% might include some 10 percentage points of Gypsies or more.
No one else plays this sport much.
Oh, unsourced data, my favorite kind! Very hot take, my friend.
P.S. Anecdotally, the very rich have lots of kids. (Only 3 would be a low outlier.) Does that mean that rich people are very stupid? I always suspected.
Not a fair comparison, Slovakia was an agricultural backwater with mostly infertile hilly or mountainous land (thus under premodern conditions desperately poor), similar to Subcarpathia, while Czechia was quite developed with a number of large urban centers already in the Middle Ages.
First, Hungary as a whole started out from a lower base (poorer and less literate) than the Austrian crown lands, so had less money to develop literacy (which was one of the top priorities right from 1867). I’m not sure how much resources were transferred to Galicia from the western crown lands (like Bohemia or German Austria), but I’m sure there was some.
Second, the language barrier was much higher for Ruthenians in Hungary than in Galicia to study in the dominant ethnicities’ institutions, which significantly slowed down the formation of an educated Ruthenian elite in the former, which in turn reduced the speed with which local education in the local language could be organized.
Third, Subcarpathia is a very small and infertile mountainous region, hardly comparable to the rich agricultural area of Galicia with its large urban centers.
Fourth, within Hungary (or the Austrian crown lands), primary education was mostly in the hand of the churches, and it seems that the Orthodox (and even Uniate) churches did much worse in that respect.
Fifth, Ruthenians within Hungary did the worst even among Eastern Christians within Hungary, much worse than the Serbs and even worse than the Romanians. (Both of whom, by the way, had a higher rate of literacy in Hungary than in their respective kingdoms.) I’m pretty sure that it had more to do with the peculiarities of Subcarpathia than with a general Hungarian neglect of education. (Though probably Subcarpathia was indeed neglected, the most neglected part of the country.)
Sixth, it’s not impossible that, as another commenter has already proposed, most intelligent Ruthenians left Subcarpathia either to move to Hungarian cities (where they got Magyarized) or to Galicia, depriving this small backwater from its potential educators.
Here’s a graph of literacy among the various ethnicities in the Kingdom of Hungary between 1880 and 1910. (Unfortunately it’s not for schoolchildren, rather for the population as a whole.) I’m guessing that it includes the Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia, too, but it’s irrelevant for Ruthenians anyway.
https://www.tankonyvtar.hu/en/tartalom/tamop425/0010_2A_09_Farago_Tamas_Bevezetes_a_torteneti_demografiaba/images/10.6_abra.jpg
Drug crisis already peaked a few years ago.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/570365207491117076/651655647162662912/unknown.png
Drugs are part of the culture.
Panjab closer to Afghanistan than Delhi.
Iran, Russia, Af-Pak also faced a deluge of heroin addicts.
Panjabis don’t really choose Canada so much as particular places.
Anywhere they were invited to farm.
50% of Sikhs are in either Surrey (BC) or Brampton (ON).
Concentrated in N Cali as well.
https://twitter.com/metromorning/status/852475767556591616?s=20
“Mass” Panjabi immigration is only a thing of the last 5-10 years with Student Visas though and a lot of that went to Australia.
Hindus are atleast culturally similar imagine the terror Abrahamics feel||
Here’s a video: https://anonfile.com/x1RfqbD2nd/Final_Presentiation_mp4
https://olympic.ca/team-canada/milan-radenovic/
This kid for example is Montenegro Serb.
You just went full retard.
Never go full retard.
Profoundly ignorant comment. Zuck & Bozo are agents of the Deep State, whose companies are basically surveillance operations; Trump is a con artist who has been repeatedly bailed out by his Masonic mates; Uber is also some kind of surveillance op, because it keeps going despite not making any money. Your warrior entrepreneurs are tools of the CIA.
Wow imagine caring this much.
Panjab gets rich every few centuries between being depopulated.
We still manage to have 1/3rd of our females come from Slavic lineages. :shrug:
In other words, they are the warrior elite.
What did you think they were?
Join them, and if you wish, subvert them.
But above all, don’t be stupid.
Hungarians within Hungary perform better than Romanians in Romania, but I’m not sure that’s necessarily true of ethnic Hungarians in Romania. The language barrier makes it exceedingly difficult for Hungarians to finish a Romanian language education, and while there is a parallel Hungarian language education system, it’s usually of lower quality than the Romanian language education system, and obviously cannot have all the faculties in higher education.
Large parts of the ethnic Hungarian cognitive elite have also left all the neighboring countries.
You guys make me think that probably I should support the football hooligans.
Hungary performs significantly better than Romania, which is why it was not unreasonable for AP to think that Hungarians might outperform Romanians in Romania. As I wrote, I’m not sure that’s the case, but it’s not an unreasonable assumption.
Rofl.
Yeah, you should really go back, seems like ugly old crappy Russia is not for you. What’s holding you back?
wEEE
https://www.mediafire.com/file/su016d30vz551aq/Final_Presentiation.mp4/file
North Korea is out of the news, and probably nothing will happen, but this is one more area where really bad things might happen. The situation is actually worse than it was a couple years ago, because now there’s a conflict between China and the US, therefore, China is much less likely to be consulted or to acquiesce to unilateral American actions. Also the fact that two years ago a seemingly highly dangerous situation got defused so quickly means that most people will think it’s not very dangerous (despite probably being more dangerous than back then when North Korea had a more hostile and US-friendly China in its back).
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-hints-use-military-force-if-north-korea-backtracks-commitments
Reading about the Great War, it’s striking how many seemingly dangerous crises there were before one of them became a huge war. Basically both sides thought that the other will budge, and both drew the lesson that by being tough, they could get their way. The North Korea issue (and lots of seemingly defused crises like Syria) could be similar, where both sides learned the lesson that being tough pays. The many crises desensitized the decision-makers to them, and each one of them harbored resentments from real or imagined previous humiliations.
In other words, it’s unlikely for any particular crisis to start World War Three, but the more crises there are (fortunately it’s been over a year since we’ve had the last one – there was a period of detente before the Great War, too), the more cumulative effect they might have, eventually leading to a big conflagration.
Untrue before industrialization.
In the end, the human race doesn’t survive.
Which makes it all not quite serious, and a bit of a game. Life is more fun this way, trust me.
That’s what they say. I caught myself after I wrote this, also.
But I’m not sure it’s true. The pullulating lower classes, with their endless children, is a trope even in the 18th century.
But why not write what I think? That’s a koan for you.
I do in fact believe Hungarians to be a bit smarter than Romanians.
I just don’t think the difference to be THAT great.
Part B: Is it the only solution?
Part C: Express the equation in Cartesian coordinates for polar coordinates the trajectory of the hare.
Part D: Wolf’s speed is k=4 times greater than hare’s speed. What is the largest value of k for which the hare can escape?
Apart from Harghita-Covasna – where the language barrier is very real – most Hungarians in Romania are bilingual.
So I really don’t think that would be the cause.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
You don’t get to demand your own parallel system – and then complain when it turns out worse.
Why, then, specify that China is specifically BSZJ, if using just 3-4 regions is apparently standard?*
If they had to specify that, while not specifying the US as MCF, then I am assuming that result was adjusted to reflect the average student in the BSZJ region – not China as a whole.
I have never made any allegations that China cheats.
I am sure they do. I think I recall seeing some concrete data on that. And Transylvania is nicer than most of the Romania, both stat wise and if you travel through it.
Jews are not warriors, jews are by nature cowards. They rule America because they are sociopaths (again this is core to their nature) and because too many people are too good natured and too gullible to do what needs to be done.
Probably Yes, since there are modern reprints of this book
At what age? Certainly not at age 7, which means that in the early years they might accumulate severe deficiencies. Learning a difficult (and ultimately, at least outside those countries, useless) language like Slovak or Romanian takes up a lot of time and energy, and this makes it difficult to learn other foreign languages or other subjects. And, at the end of the day, they still cannot compete with Romanian native speakers when it comes to applying for Romanian law faculties or similar.
Hungarians there can speak Romanian, too, at least I did observe a couple of them conversing with Romanians without much effort. Maybe fewer of them, or not as well, but they can mostly speak Romanian. The issue is, how much time, effort and energy it takes to learn it.
The issue is, Romanian schools cannot educate native Hungarian speakers either, because you cannot just put children into a foreign language environment and then expect them to compete with the native speakers. It’s also an issue that Hungarians don’t want to give up their ethnicity, at least not that fast, so don’t expect demands for Hungarian language education to be dropped soon. Even if the price might be somewhat worse quality education.
Anyway, I wasn’t really complaining, merely explaining the reasons behind the lower performance.
I see. Thanks for letting me know. I will take it under advisement.
Let’s step back a bit.
You speculate that Hungarians in Romania might do worse than Romanians due to language issues.
My (anecdotal) opinion is that Hungarians don’t do worse at all.
In fact, it seems to me they do a bit better.
There are some Hungarians who initially struggle with Romanian.
But language comes natural to the human animal – so, given the proper incentives (that is to say, money for adults – and simply playing along for children) the problem quickly goes away.
You do know no one (in the mainstream, at least) is pushing for such a thing, right ?
Abraham was a Bhenchod LOL!
All myths have a certain truth hidden in them. When it comes to the story of Abraham and him wanting to kill his son because of voices in his head, this is good clue that the jews had pscyhopathic tendencies from the start to value such stories. They still continue to worship that lunatic character btw.
Modern Jews have no relation whatsoever to Old Testament Hebrews.
The Old Testament guys were, roughly, the same ethnicity as the Carthaginians and the Phoenicians. (All three are just variations of the same tribe.)
Modern Jews are a European mystery-meat people, but mostly German.
You must view the story of Abraham in the same context as that of Carthaginian Baal worship.
Interesting as always, thank you. You are correct that neglect was only part of it, but it was a big part. IIRC in 1850 Galicia and Trancarpathia were very similar.
Total literacy in Galicia in 1910 was about 61% IIRC, about equal to Slovakia and three times higher than across the Carpathians.
I have heard these theories, but there is DNA evidence that shows that jews have origins from the middle east. Besides that, the average jew that lived in Europe for centuries looks much swarthier than the average German, Aryan looking types like Scarlett Johansson are the rare exception. They are a mystery meat, but their origins are not European.
Dinarics seem to be good at sports in general, but I have no idea for Hungary
Three points:
a) It’s not a “theory”, it’s a fact.
b) Nobody said anything about genetics but you. Read my post again.
c) Even looking at genetics, the ‘origins from the Middle East’ story is fake news. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Y-DNA_of_Ashkenazi_Jews
Scroll down a bit and look at the table. That is, indeed, a table of ‘mystery-meat ancestry’. (And European or not depending on whether your consider Sicily, Iberia and the Caucasus to be European.)
like i said will to power is only part of the equation of what make a warrior but maybe is more precise to describe as the aryan spirit .
the merchant devalues the human life kill the beauty and the big irrational project that have impulsed the world forward in all its ineficient pragmatism , greed distorts the reality and value of what exists,it degrade everything to the lowest common denominator ,it feminize society , the human being is considered a medium ;money and gain (fed by hatred and a calculating mind) become ends in themselves big like cartagho or little like your closest shop in your neighbourhood little matters the shaddy materialist pragmatic ,false,envious,femenine, greedy spirit is the same thats why they were righfully hated across time and space
and the post 60 america is a testament of that the failure of conceiving life not a transitionary phase but the last parade of the train of the merchant values , the victorious america is only a mirage , the inertia of the influence of hundred of years of the aryan soul in america
but the warrior ethos is still alive not in the the offices of multinational companies but in the heart of adventurers spread across the world practizing suicidal sports dominating their fear and conquering thenselfs searching for a place they can call home
America delanda est
BSZJ is not representative of entire China, but BSZJ is pretty big in itself. It is not just 4 cities as some iSteve commenters seem to believe.
not only that
the current mma heavyweight champion of the world stepe miocik is croatian
the bronze medalist in boxing in rio olimpics is croatian hrgovic (they robbed him the gold)
the best current tenist is of serbian origin
croatian team finalized 2nd in the world football championship
serbs end up 6 in the basquetball championship
……..
and they have only a population of 4 million croats and 6 million serbs
the interesting thing is that serbs and croats are the only living descendants with osetians that have scythians roots
Researchers Milan Hustich and Tadeusz Sulimirski claimed that Sarmatians are the common ancestors of Serbs and Croats. They compare hundreds of words in Serbian and Croatian and relate them to their equivalents in the Scythian languages spoken by the Sarmatians. According to Sulimirski, who published the book The Sarmatians in 1970,6 there are several etymological tests for making such a claim:7
The name of the Serbs in the variant sarb (Sarva) means in Scythian and Sanskrit “all people united and free”. Scythians were also called serocroats (Sarmatians/issedons), which has the same meaning as “Serbs and Croats” in ancient Iranian: Scythian languages belonged to Iranian linguistic groups, although the vocabulary was closer to Sanskrit.
The Croatian name (Hrovat) means “the people of pretenders and free men” in the ancient Iranian languages, and “those who wear armor” in Latin. The Sarmatians (meaning “sword holders” in ancient Persian) with their long swords and armor with scales were the ancient knights (Katafrakts). A significant fact is that the name Hrovat (Croatian) in avéstan is synonymous with Serbian in Sanskrit, and means “the people of the suitors”.
also according to several genetic studies published by Stanford University and FamilyTreeDNA, Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina are the European countries with the highest concentration of inhabitants of Haplogroup I2a1, with the next highest concentration approximately north of the Black Sea in the area occupied by the ancient Sarmatians and scythians, in what has been considered an important evidence of the relationship between the two populations.
so imagine if a mixed scythians like serbs and croats population have the highest per capita achieviments in the mayority of the sport what a pure scythians would be caplable off
a last curious thing the proto villanova culture(proto romans) had balcan admixture thats the only genetic difference between romans and etruscans ;so the romans have a decent amount of scythians like admixture in their veins
Steve Sailer noted in passing as Novak Djokovic won Wimbledon recently that it seems to be a golden age for Balkan sportsmen. Croatia advanced to last year’s World Cup final in football, arguably one of the most competitive things possible given the huge installed base of practioners and the massive global popularity. Even in India, behind cricket and kabbadi, football is the third most watched sport. Not a small achievement, doubly so for such a tiny country.
Speaking of which, do you have any ideas why they are so tall? Typically people from the southern parts of Europe are stereotyped as shorter and those from the north as taller. It seems to be specific to the Balkans. I’m not aware that Italians, Spainards, Greeks etc have become as tall as Dutch, Danish or Swedes. But Serbs and Croats are now about as tall or in some cases even taller.
I know most (and more) of these conjectures, but- aren’t they too tenuous? Croats & Serbs are not, per haplotypes, mostly “Slavs”, but you have to take into account that I2a (just- it has numerous different subclades) is not enough; more, we don’t know about mitochondrial DNA, so it leaves females out.
Anyway, I don’t know what to think about it all, considering Yamnaya culture & “race replacement” of old Europeans c. 4,500 years ago.
These things are a bit fuzzy & not clear enough (at least, not to me).
So, what’s the implication here? That we should start stuffing idiots into meat grinders?
the correlation between yamnaya (aryan) admixture and height is nearly total in europe ;the more yamnaya admixture you have the taller you are stadistically except in the case of croats and sebs that are much more taller of what their yamnaya admixture would predict
probably the founding group of scythians that moved to the balcans was very small so a huge variance of a very self selected few that grew in numbers over time is not hard to imagine
Remember deepfakes? Here’s one.
https://twitter.com/Elizabethrajya4/status/1200635635486220289
It’s hilarious people used to panic about AI being used to spread racist propaganda – possibly unwittingly – in the future. In the end, it will just be another globohomo tool once the spelling gets polished. (P.S. why not just run into the grass?).
Can I get a source for the Scythian claim?
I’ve grown very tired of everyone from Kazan to Podgorica claiming they have Scythian/Persian/Hunnic ancestry
Scientists Discover Gene That Predisposes Ashkenazi Jews to Schizophrenia
Variations of the DNST3 gene make Ashkenazi Jews 40 percent more likely to develop schizophrenia and similar diseases.
https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-ashkenazi-gene-increases-schizophrenia-1.5294333
and there is more
they are frankesteins out of control nurtured for thousands of years in europe from a minuscule founding group ,in a sense there is nothing more european that jews thenselfs ;the european presure have influenced them so much that they have end up mutating biologically
we have created the monster that is killing us
This American drag queen story hour shit is seriously disturbing, like something out of a Alejandro Jodorowsky film
Interesting thoughts. I shall have to consider them.
Whatever warrior spirit there is left in the world, none of it seems to be in Europe. Today’s Europeans are the consummate greedy and cowardly merchants. They sell us Americans cars, and are much more feminine than us. They barely reproduce. I am talking of Western Europe, of course. The merchant has triumphed in Europe.
You say the warrior spirit is in scattered individual adventurers across the world. Perhaps. But that makes them a force no one need reckon with.
But it seems obvious to me that the warrior spirit today is to be found much more concentrated in America, even in corporations.
America has just begun its rise 🙂 The Empire is just beginning.
1-https://books.google.es/books?id=GWM9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA284&dq=common+origin+of+Serbs+and+Croats&hl=es&ei=Ve7qTNrsLuiS4gbrmtj4Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCTge#v=onepage&q&f=false
2-Sulimirski, Tadeusz. The Sarmatians. Thames and Hudson, 1970
3-https://web.archive.org/web/20091103062325/http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf
Yes, sadly I have heard similar things about Ireland.
It appears to be a 3rd world country with a 1st world credit rating…
I will be going next year on a visit. Want to see the country my ancestors emigrated from before I pass and in spite of everything I am looking forward to it.
I suspect that’s because China is not uniformly developed like the U.S., the BSZJ regions resemble the OECD area more than any other parts of China at least in terms of income. I’m not sure any of them is the highest performing province in China’s own national college entrance exam (Gaokao).
Hungary is 10% Roma. Transcarpathia must be similar.
He is talking about PISA maths test results, not undefined “international rankings”. The results and their distributions are only interesting if test is measuring something interesting.
In this case, pedantry about some insignificant changes in the distribution of the results in different countries – is even less interesting than if you were discussing a normally designed maths test.
Not “smart fraction” – high scoring fraction in PISA maths test.
PISA maths ≠ measure of maths knowledge/maths. which is what I had expected you to say, but you disappoint me Utu. I thought this was a topic where you are not usually gullibly jumping on the horse.
–
PISA maths test, is testing children’s question decoding ability, and perhaps something like their “cultural intelligence”. The “maths component” in most questions at elementary school level, but the question decoding and understanding the examiners’ intentions, is something much more difficult.
In relation to Russia, there were some fake news in recent years about improving maths levels, because of PISA – which is sad to read, as there has been a real collapse of mathematics school education levels in the last 10 years. (Although the decline had started already in the 1990s).
I guess we should place PISAology into the same category as IQology and astrology. Duly noted.
Not in PISA where Swedish speakers have consistently done worse than Finns, though this year Swedes scored nearly equally (but mainly because Finnish scores have dropped and a big part of that is that the population in Helsinki’s schools is less Finnish). Native Swedish speakers of course have a huge advantage in school grades when much of the curriculum is about studying Indo-European languages.
PISA is good for many things – such as e.g. providing jobs for translators.
It’s not just a different test in every language, but a different test for every national version of every language:
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/other-languages/pisa2018testquestions-otherlanguages.htm
If you read the report it notes that the poorest students in the Chinese results are above the OECD average and on par with the highest performing. My question is why Taiwan was so far below other Han people including Singapore and Macau and Hong Kong.
But i would almost guarantee you Singapore would fare higher than NY or San Francisco or Massacheussets and Wisconsin. Yes – really.
PISA actually is made to improve school systems. One of the things it attempts to measure is capacity for critical thinking. Its not just a rudimentary memorization type of test.
I am Mongolian and interested in Russian Buryats , Kalmyks and Tuvans average IQ . Inner Mongolian average IQ is 101 . But Inner Mongolians heavily mixed with Han Chinese . Mongolian average IQ is unknown .
Kazakhs average IQ is only 82 and Kyrgyzstan average IQ is 90 .
In your Russian regional IQ map , Tuva,Kalmykia,Buryatia,Dagestan has lowest average IQ .
Can you estimate ethnic Buryats, Kalmysk and Tuvans average IQ ?
@Anatoly Karlin
I am Mongolian and interested in Russian Buryats , Kalmyks and Tuvans average IQ . Inner Mongolian average IQ is 101 . But Inner Mongolians heavily mixed with Han Chinese . Mongolian average IQ is unknown .
Kazakhs average IQ is only 82 and Kyrgyzstan average IQ is 90 .
In your Russian regional IQ map , Tuva,Kalmykia,Buryatia,Dagestan has lowest average IQ .
Can you estimate ethnic Buryats, Kalmysk and Tuvans average IQ ?
Greeks have been the fastest growing of the Mediterranean people and now exceed the height of Americans, Australians, Russians and Germans. However, they are still shorter than the Scandinavians, Dutch, Serbs and Croats.
I always thought Yulia Peresild looked a bit Finno-Ugric, and she is from Pskov, which is near Estonia. Any thoughts?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7d/9d/a5/7d9da530da53a5e2dd811b6098ce6e54.jpg
Natives-only scores. Western Europeans perform better than White Americans on the most g-loaded test, math:
https://i.imgur.com/4EmbD2d.png
Paul Singer
Fact check: True! One of my relatives was one such person. He helped round up Irishmen and Puerto Ricans in 1917, most of whom were not thrilled about being sent to France. Then he went over to England to sip tea with British generals.
Based on which metric?
source? Why would this mixed Jew/white/Asian overclass have any obligation to deplorables?
Furthermore, East Asians have such a low fertility rate that they won’t be much of an influence by 2040. Chinese people are increasingly returning to China after studying. And, elite South Asians, the real new overclass, doesn’t inter-marry, and will do so with less frequence as their numbers increase.
The latest DNA results for Balkan can give some hints: http://www.nevgen.org/Europe_haplogroups_overview.html
Goo. Watson agrees with Scorsese.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/4oOgNAIasO0/
Politics. China is the tall poppy everyone will whinge about. It is convinient for OCED to tag that as BSJZ.China to deflect that, even when other participating countries might not have even location coverage (but Westat ensured that all have the relevant and representative cognitive coverage). Apparently China did not object to the new name tag. OECD is more interested in the effects of socio-economic status on academic performance, rather than the location effects, not looking for magic dirts.
As previously shown, the OECD consultant Westat from US dictated the schools to be surveyed in PISA for all the participating countries, each with two possible specific equivalent replacements. WeightB4 is the percentage of schools in each participating countries that agreed to the schools specified by Westat directly be used in the PISA survey. Alternatively the country concerned for various reasons might reject the first nominated schools and agreed to the alternative designated replacements, i.e. there are some wiggle rooms for the countries. The data are summarized by the US PISA project, https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/2018technotes-11.asp
The US PISA technote explains how the OECD consultant Westat, from the few selected regions for all the participating countries, how to hammer out the representative sample with the national profile even when the regions are not representative of the national profile, https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/2018technotes-2.asp
As I said, go read up on statistical sampling methodology. If you want to designate some countries’ results are worthless, which will you consider to be so ??
Rank | WeightB4 | WeightAft | Country
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Belarus
1 100.0 | 100.0 | BruneiDarussalam
1 100.0 | 100.0 | CostaRica
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Estonia
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Ireland
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Jordan
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Kazakhstan
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Korea
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Luxembourg
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Macao.China
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Moldova
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Qatar
1 100.0 | 100.0 | RussianFederation <—
1 100.0 | 100.0 | Thailand
20 99.5 | 100.0 | Finland
32 98.8 | 99.2 | Sweden
34 98.4 | 99.0 | Hungary
35 98.2 | 100.0 | Romania
36 98.0 | 99.8 | France
38 97.8 | 100.0 | Ukraine
41 97.4 | 98.8 | ChineseTaipei
44 97.1 | 100.0 | Turkey
47 96.5 | 98.1 | Singapore
48 96.4 | 99.4 | BSJZ.China <—
51 95.7 | 98.2 | Germany
52 95.5 | 99.8 | Israel
62 91.6 | 98.6 | Poland
65 89.3 | 93.5 | Japan
67 86.8 | 92.7 | Brazil
69 86.1 | 99.5 | Switzerland
70 85.7 | 88.6 | Canada <—
75 72.9 | 86.6 | UnitedKingdom <—
76 69.4 | 78.6 | HongKong.China <—
77 65.0 | 76.4 | UnitedStates <—
As previously shown, the OECD consultant ACER from Australia dictated which students from the Westat designated schools were to be surveyed, this time with no replacement. The countries or schools had the right to veto that but the actions were aggregated into the transparent OverallExclusionRate reported. The OverallExclusionRate for Canada is quite high. It was reported for PISA 2015, Canada outright vetoed the inclusion of the First Nation Native Indian students in the PISA survey. For whatever reasons the UK OverallExclusionRate is over the 5% mark.
Rank | OvallExRate | CovDesire | WPartAft | Country
1 0.0 | 100.0 | 98.3 | Albania
2 0.1 | 99.9 | 95.6 | Indonesia
3 0.4 | 99.6 | 99.4 | Macao.China
4 0.4 | 99.6 | 87.0 | Uruguay
5 0.5 | 99.5 | 92.8 | Colombia
8 0.6 | 99.4 | 97.4 | Korea
17 1.3 | 98.7 | 85.3 | HongKong.China
19 1.4 | 98.6 | 94.6 | ChineseTaipei
24 1.7 | 98.3 | 94.6 | Singapore
37 2.4 | 97.6 | 96.3 | Japan
43 2.6 | 97.4 | 92.6 | France
46 2.7 | 97.3 | 90.4 | Germany
51 3.1 | 96.9 | 95.7 | Ukraine
52 3.2 | 96.8 | 99.2 | BSJZ.China <—
54 3.3 | 96.7 | 97.7 | Romania
55 3.4 | 96.6 | 92.8 | Finland
57 3.7 | 96.3 | 94.0 | Hungary
58 3.8 | 96.2 | 86.0 | Poland
59 3.8 | 96.2 | 84.8 | UnitedStates <—
60 3.9 | 96.1 | 86.5 | Ireland
61 3.9 | 96.1 | 90.5 | Israel
63 4.7 | 95.3 | 96.2 | RussianFederation <—
64 5.0 | 95.0 | 92.1 | Estonia
65 5.5 | 94.5 | 83.1 | UnitedKingdom <—
68 5.7 | 94.3 | 98.8 | Turkey
73 6.7 | 93.3 | 94.3 | Switzerland
75 6.9 | 93.1 | 84.0 | Canada <—
78 11.1 | 88.9 | 86.5 | Sweden
As far as you can tell, what are the biggest non-Finnish minorities?
The average 95th percentile PISA Sci
Rank | Sci95 | Country
1 721 | BSJZ.China
2 698 | Singapore
3 674 | Estonia
4 674 | Macao.China
5 673 | Finland
6 673 | Japan
7 672 | Korea
8 671 | Canada
9 670 | NewZealand
10 670 | ChineseTaipei
11 669 | VietNam
12 666 | Netherlands
13 665 | Germany
14 664 | Australia
15 664 | UnitedKingdom
16 660 | Poland
17 660 | UnitedStates
18 655 | Sweden
22 650 | HongKong.China
24 648 | OECDtot
26 644 | France
28 640 | Israel
30 639 | OECDavg
42 619 | Ukraine
43 616 | Russia
47 608 | Turkey
49 596 | Qatar
59 567 | Thailand <—
67 548 | Mexico
78 500 | Philippines <—
As to the one who questioned about the relevant of PISA results, the Devos Economic Forum has guidelines for the multinational corp decision makers about foreign investments and the PISA result is one of the major factors for estimating how the local populations can be trained for high tech factory works. For examples in the 90s there were global efforts by many automotive corps trying to make Philippines to be the global hubs for automotive manufacturing and the results seemed to be total disaster. From the above data the Filipinos do not seem to be easily trained to do high tech manufacturing. The automotive corps as well as high tech electronic corps now seem to have reasonable success to do that in Thailand but not in Mexico which is close to the US market. For example the recent floods in Thailand had affected the supply of computer hard disks worldwide. It is also obvious that Vietnam is competent enough to be involved in high end semiconductor and mobile phone manufacturing (Samsung) if those high tech companies want to divest away from China.
Apparently that whinger is a ignorant armchair nobody and not a global economic decision maker.
So much for the brain drain of smart Ukrainians to Russia?
The average 95th percentile PISA Read
Rank | Read95 | Country
1 714 | Singapore
2 692 | BSJZ.China
3 677 | Canada
4 676 | Estonia
4 676 | UnitedStates
6 673 | HongKong.China
7 672 | Finland
7 672 | Sweden
9 671 | NewZealand
10 670 | Macao.China
11 669 | Korea
12 667 | Poland
13 664 | UnitedKingdom
14 663 | Germany
14 663 | Ireland
14 663 | Israel
17 661 | Norway
17 661 | ChineseTaipei
19 657 | Japan
20 654 | OECDtot
22 651 | France
26 647 | Switzerland
28 645 | OECDavg
33 631 | Hungary
34 629 | Russia
38 625 | VietNam
45 612 | Ukraine
46 610 | Turkey
50 592 | Qatar
60 562 | Mexico
70 533 | Thailand
76 491 | Philippines
Great. Thanks!
Native math scores are higher in Sweden than in Finland (519 vs 512) in PISA 2018 and nearly as high in reading (525 vs 527). And this is with a fairly generous definition of ‘native’ (father must have been born in the country). Sweden has a much higher share of mixed 2nd gen and 3rd gen migrants than Finland which wouldn’t be counted according to this generous definition. It’d be interesting to see the breakdown within Finland for this year.
Please be nice to Dmitry 🙂
Thank you for the work you put in!
Both Russia and Ukraine do poorly in the top 5% smart fraction.
https://i.imgur.com/CAQEDDe.jpg
Russia beats Ukraine in two of them, but admittedly not by much, and is tied in the third. Rather than smart Ukrainians going to Russia in a massive flood as in AK’s fantasies, a much more probable scenario is that the smart fraction from both countries will move to richer, higher-performing countries westwards if they are going to move at all. Not only would they get much more resources/funds but they’d be surrounded by smarter people, too.
Nobody “put Hungarian children in Romanian schools”. Their parents chose to live in areas with Hungarian schools vs. Romanian schools, despite similar cost of living.
Saying that “Romania can’t educate Hungarian children is silly”. Very few Romanians bother to learn Hungarian (what would be the point?), and even fewer of these would want to be teachers. In fact, would anyone want a maths teacher who can’t speak properly the language in which he teaches? Therefore the Hungarian-language math teachers are the best the Hungarian-speaking part of Romania could produce. The rest of the country does not get extra resources or additional financial stimuli. The only difference is in the teacher and the student mentality and skills.
Lately, the Romanian maths team did not include any Hungarian name. The most recent half-Hungarian-name was on the 2008 team. The most recent complete Hungarian name dates from 1993. (That would be 2 Hungarians among more than 100 Romanian-sounding names, a BN level of underrepresentation.) But over the last decade there were two Vietnamese and two Turkish geniuses, one of them born in Istanbul. That is, the Romanian system is good at putting gifted kids one step above their inborn abilities, regardless of genes, but Hungarians’ opt-out from everything civilized means they hate even “Romanian maths”.
But how do you know that this 2018 math test is more g loaded?
Third world countries have the possibly of enticing foreign investors to set up maquiladoras, if they do well.
But is there any rational reason for first world nations to take the PISA? It is unlikely that they can push the Flynn-effects that might be associated with development, and seem to now be reversing, due to dysgenics. What is left but teaching the test? And is that a desirable goal?
its a mirage , under the totalitarian liberal order the old passions still throb with the same energy only inconciously relegated to a corner but the dam wont last eternally and when it breakes the storm will make the world tremble without paralel in history
your kind have proved incapable of leading this world trying to degrade everything and mixing it to the lowest common denominator even if its signify to rule a world in ruins instead improving and elevating yourself to lead this world with righfull authority;its a very femenine way of thinking trasform everyone in the untermench insteaad of trasforming yourself in the ubermench .
its only a matter of time until the legitimate king raise to reclaim his legitimate throne and purificate this world so a new golden age can born
https://i.imgur.com/6Stoekj.jpg
On an unrelated note for those in Russia -am coming to Moscow for a relative’s birthday party. Just for a few days due to work vacation limits, so no free time. My family is there already. I heard Sheremetevo has no WiFi – is this true? I have yandex taxi and Uber but with no WiFi I’ll end up haggling with a taxi outside . Is 1500 rubles to the center a decent price?
Kids in Defense of the Culture
https://www.crisismagazine.com/2019/kids-in-defense-of-the-culture
An interesting article, that actually provides some hope fo the future. I recently had the pleasant experience of attending a 3 day work related seminar at the Arizona Christian University. Their campus is now where the famous Thunderbird International School of Business was once headquartered. I tried to take advantage of this rare opportunity to observe the lifestyle and manner of these young ostensible “Christians” from up close. Lunchtime at their cafeteria exposed me to a “normal” boisterous crowd of youngsters, replete with headphones, smartphones and laptop computers. The atmosphere changed suddenly Tuesday morning when the campus holds their Tuesday “praise” meeting. Very modern rock rhythms served as backdrop for prayer and group singing that could be heard throughtou the campus. This went on for several hours – “Halleleujeh and Praise the Lord”. 🙂
Sheremetyevo does have Wi-Fi but you can only sign in with a Russian phone number (IIRC the automated system calls you and you have to pick up to confirm). Of course there’s any number of places in the terminal to pick up a local SIM card real quick.
Like ancient Rome, America is shifting from a republic into an Empire. The Roman Republic also only lasted 300 years or so.
States must reinvent themselves to remain vital. Eventually the American empire will collapse, but it is just beginning now. It has a long way yo go.
It is vain to think, just because this transition is accompanied by tremendous social upheaval like in ancient Rome, that this means the end for America.
If America ended now, it would the shortest run for any great power in history. It would also be the only case where a great power ended without reinventing itself and going through several iterations first.
America has many transformations to go through before its over, like ancient Rome.
China or Russia or both, will play the role of the somewhat shabby but still mildly formidable Parthian Empire.
Plus ca change…
You missed one very important thing.
There a lot more people today, than in the Classical Antiquity.
A lot more in USA, than in Roman state.
More individuals, more collisions, more energy.
The information sharing and information spread are orders of magnitude ahead, as well.
I don’t think it will take long. Certainly, the replacement of ethnic Romans, ethnic Latins and even ethnic Italics was underway already during late Republic.
When a Jewish lesbian Stanford law professor can explicitly state that Ukrainians are made to fight Russia there so USA doesn’t have to fight them “here” and remains “shining city on a hill” – it might already be too late.
Once the demographic and economic, also ideological (European-American low and middle class) foundation of USA hollows out – war will be inevitable.
Well, its just scaled up, then. I don’t know if scaling up fundamentally changes anything.
The crazy stuff you see in America today is ephemeral – it is necessary to break down the rigid old conservative culture, but it is transitional.
Look at the big picture, and don’t place too much importance on the details.
It seems like your reasoning is very Spenglerian, would you agree? Do you really think that cultures have lifecycles similar to organisms?
The old rigid conservative culture in USA had been broken for a long time.
What will follow is the (attempt at) breaking those who broke it.
When enough breadcrumbs were thrown to plebs and they could rationalise their existence by looking at their wives, children and homes – the elite and cabals were free to do as they please.
Something tells me the incels, groypers, alt-righters, trumpers, enriched and those who had their impoverished white privilege checked will not go away.
a couple of points
americas “colonies” europe japan corea and basically every nation where nato have a base is much more slaved to the dollar than to the american military stricto sensu( someone said carthago?) once america lost its economical primacy more and more will abandon the sinking ship and by the end of the century this will be a reality.
making a paralel with the roman era we are probably at the point when citicenship lost all of its values when caracalla in 212 ac gave citinship to all romans across the empire ,if not there we are only 10 years away of democrats legalizing all the inmigrants, 50 years later the most gruesome civil war destroyed rome and only survived as a zombie for 100 years more.
the revolution against todays world will came when todays novility basically merchant barons and duches (owner of facebook google,boing….)transfer to the merchant monarchs (owners of the biggest banks)every active they have in long proccess of concentration of capital , the for biggest inversor bancks own nearly 60% of the capital of the top 500 bussiness in the down jones and was only 45% 20 years ago. when the new novility is decapitalized(control every important company) and the monarch reign suprem the time of the revolution and a new paradign will came ;today capitalism is like a hydra it will be much easier to deal with it once only a couple of families controll the entire capital of america
Yes, definitely. Although I am not rigid about it.
But I think transformation is natural and inevitable, and decadence is as natural and inevitable as health. And decadence is always a prelude to a new kind of life. Things must die so other things can live.
The analogy with biology seems correct to me, but biology itself seems based on a deeper principle of change in a cyclical manner that characterizes all of reality.
Humans are short sighted – they try naturally to resist change and hold on to the old order. Buddhists say this is the cause of suffering.
The old culture of the West had become very rigid and dead. If you read Western literature, you see that too many people found it oppressive.
To hold on to it past its natural life makes no sense. It was a beautiful culture at first, full of a love of adventure. But then it became rigid and dead. Science isn’t about discovery anymore – it is about knowledge. And nothing impedes discovery more than knowledge.
What was needed was to break down science and start again. Break down our certainties. So a lot of the craziness you see today is just the breaking down of what had grown too rigid.
Yes, that old conservative culture probably died in the 90s, though it lingers on. But like I said to Rattus, it had grown too rigid.
If we want to discover new things, we have to break down our old certainties. That’s what’s happening now. Of course lots of it will be crazy at first. But that’s the adventure of it.
The certainties of the Middle Ages had to be broken down before the modern period could begin. The certainties of the ancient world had to be broken before the Christian era could begin.
We have to kill our knowledge before we can start fresh. Of course many old things will be rediscovered in fresh new ways. That’s the fascinating thing about it.
As for the alt right and groypers and what not, much of this movement is just a doomed attempt to hold onto a dead culture that isn’t coming back in its old forms.
Some of it is, or can be, about reinventing old forms in fresh ways.
Our times are crazy, but also full of opportunity and exciting.
the perfect sistesis between science and misticism was nazi germany the real new rome
but like cristianity needed hundred of years to spread across the europe after crist dead the same will happen with arianism once financial capitalism became a dead end
HEIL THE ARYAN RACE
Some of you are reading too much into this test. Reality check:
PISA clearly doesn’t measure school standards only (as your NY Times reader would argue), but it just as clearly doesn’t measure intelligence only (as many in this thread seem to argue). Does anyone truly believe that ethnic Swedes are genetically worse at math than ethnic Germans and Dutchmen? A simpler answer is that we do worse than them because our school system teaches math worse than theirs (this I can well believe).
It’s a test based on samples, so to compare very near results as if they were cut in stone is silly. PISA will have done its utmost, of course, to get representative samples. But samples they are, which means that they come with error margins.
Beyond this, we also have an unknown cultural variable than will cloud the results. Even basic things like translations will always distort the original text in more or less subtle ways, and as Mr. Scientism tweeted the other day, actual cultural differences go far deeper than this:
I would suppose this is a case of the category “white” being overly broad.
My feeling is that if you matched for ethnicity – or where impossible, put it into broader categories which at the same time would be more narrow than white – Americans would generally do better.
Probably around 90-95 relative to a Russian 100 (lower in Tyva, higher in Kalmykia and Buryatia).
Vladimir Shibaev’s work suggests that Yakuts perform equivalently to Russians, at least on the Raven’s.
Don’t recall unfortunately, I have limitless data so no need to use airport WiFi. But I suspect it has MT FREE network (as in the metro) which you can use for free as long as you first see some ads.
About twice what you’d pay for the (basic) Yandex.Taxi service via the app, but approximately what you’d get if you were to haggle with them directly.
Alternatively, unless you have tons of luggage, why don’t you just use the Aeroexpress?
Somewhat unrelated. If you strip out the Baltics and Luxembourg (small sample size), Greeks are one of the highest earning groups in the US.
https://twitter.com/ZachG932/status/1202354540227563520/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ZachG932
I think you are paying too much attention to form and not enough to spirit or essence.
I can imagine conditions where technology develops to the point where being a military man no longer means being a warrior. Everything is safe, controlled, predictable.
And where warrior qualities like aggression and risk taking are required to make money or start a tech business.
People get too hung up on appearances and outward forms and miss what’s really going on underneath.
As for America, after the end of slavery, this is the first major transformation its going through – it is rather too early to predict its demise.
One thing that is striking is that outwardly, the alt right is masculine, but inwardly it is feminine – we are the hapless victims of Jews, we have no agency, etc.
Outwardly, the Muslims are masculine. But man to man, soldier to soldier (without technology), they are outclassed by supposedly effete Westerners (read up on details of specific battles. It is eye opening).
It is better to not put too much stock in appearances, and try and see what is really going underneath.
It has often been noted by philosophers of science that quantifying something necessarily involves a loss of complexity and nuance.
Quantification does not come free of trade offs. This is fine up to a point if one keeps this constantly in mind – but one gets the impression our culture has forgotten it.
These PISA results, are not related to the concept of “smart fractions” (besides that these are 15 year old kids).
To understand that, you have to look at the test itself.
Higher scores, are not attained by people answering questions that would test intelligence – like e.g. “write 5000 words answering ‘What is the effect of presocratic philosophy on 19th German mind?'”
The highest scores are a symptom of conscientious and careful children (who do not make mistakes while completing trivial tasks, and who will double check their answers).
This is a separate issue from finding the most intelligent students – to test intelligence, you would have to ask them very different types of questions (and 15 year old children do not have enough knowledge to be tested for intelligence).
Top marks in this kind of exam, is a sign of careful students, who are eliminating each “wrong answer” and who can guess what the examiner is intending, and who then double check everything after (because normal people make a lot of unforced mistakes in this kind of test because they are bored)..
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/other-languages/pisa2018testquestions-otherlanguages.htm
From Table I.B1.2, the %Pop distribution in 7 PISA Math proficiency levels <L1, L1, L2, L3, L4, L5 and L6 with the corresponding upper limits of the performance bins, i.e. a rough histogram of the Math performance for the country.
It is interesting that for Israel there is a clear bimodal distribution which might be due to the diff ability between the Jew and Arab. Between RUS and UKR, UKR has higher % at the low Math levels and RUS has higher % at the higher Math levels. Between ISR and RUS, the ISR has higher % at low Math levels and again higher % at the higher Math levels.
ISR: MathBin %Pop
|################################### 357.77, 17.7%
|################################ 420.07, 16.4%
|######################################### 482.38, 20.7%
|########################################## 544.68, 21.0%
|############################## 606.99, 15.4%
|############## 669.30, 7.0%
|### 669.3+, 1.8%
RUS: MathBin %Pop
|############# 357.77, 6.8%
|############################# 420.07, 14.9%
|################################################## 482.38, 25.0%
|####################################################### 544.68, 27.5%
|################################### 606.99, 17.8%
|############# 669.30, 6.6%
|### 669.3+, 1.5%
UKR: MathBin %Pop
|############################### 357.77, 15.6%
|######################################## 420.07, 20.3%
|#################################################### 482.38, 26.2%
|########################################### 544.68, 21.5%
|####################### 606.99, 11.5%
|######## 669.30, 4.0%
|## 669.3+, 1.0%
PISA Math histogram for BSJZ.China, SGP and USA.
CHN: MathBin %Pop
|# 357.77, 0.5%
|### 420.07, 1.9%
|############# 482.38, 6.9%
|################################### 544.68, 17.5%
|######################################################### 606.99, 28.9%
|####################################################### 669.30, 27.8%
|################################# 669.3+, 16.5%
SGP: MathBin %Pop
|### 357.77, 1.8%
|########## 420.07, 5.3%
|###################### 482.38, 11.1%
|###################################### 544.68, 19.1%
|################################################### 606.99, 25.8%
|############################################## 669.30, 23.2%
|########################### 669.3+, 13.8%
USA: MathBin %Pop
|#################### 357.77, 10.2%
|################################# 420.07, 16.9%
|################################################ 482.38, 24.2%
|################################################ 544.68, 24.1%
|################################ 606.99, 16.3%
|############# 669.30, 6.8%
|### 669.3+, 1.5%
I have a huge suitcase full of gifts so Aeroexpress will be inconvenient.
I’m not familiar with the items on the PISA, but intelligence can be tested for 15 year old, and even for kids much younger than that.
Why would Tuva and Buryatia be so different?
Swedish Family & Thulean Friend,
Why are Swedes the Europeans with the most negative view of China? Pew – International Views of China
The most negative in the world, next to Japan.
Hopefully, it has nothing to do with this
https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/books/ct-books-john-lecarre-agent-running-1103-20191024-uxjpr26dvzhl3faqm3g3dnhh5q-story.html
Is Putin living in exile? Arkady sounds more like one of the Jewish oligarchs who looted Russia and then bolted off to another nation.
You’re being too abstract about this. I’ll try to break it down.
A key definition of a highly skilled worker in the O-ring model is lack of mistakes. In your view, a skilled worker seems to be someone with a very high IQ. But even a 95 IQ worker doing “low-level” tasks can be skilled. Think of a precise and detail-oriented carpenter or electrician. If they are sloppy, their mistakes could cost someone their life in the case of the latter.
In an industrial economy, all the links in the chain are important, including those starting at the lowest end. That’s why the Michael Kremer used the spacecraft Challenger and how it blew up due to a simple mistake as a model for understanding the O-ring model. You can have high-level people doing very complicated designs but if the low-level workers cannot do their tasks with carefulness and precision, it will end in disaster anyway.
This is more suitable for a university exam rather than a 15 year old. And I think you underestimate how many stupid people there are in the world. The PISA test wants to test an entire population, hence testing 15 year olds. Remember that most people will not end up graduating with a university degree in most countries. And even of those who do graduate often do so unnecessarily (for instance nurses must now have post-HS education). So you need to set your sights accordingly.
Try looking at the higher-level math problems available in PISA. Trivial for most people here, but far from it for most 15 year olds. This is self-evident by the low successful completion rate in the students who attempt it.
PISA, like an IQ test, becomes best at sorting people in the clustered middle (80-120 IQ) and worse the further off you go in both directions. Since most people are located in this middle, it becomes most useful for most people. It is not as useful for selecting the top 1% away from the top 10% (what you are focused on) or vice-versa for the bottom 1% from the bottom 10%.
The issue is not PISA, which works as intended. The issue is your comprehension of what the useful limitations are, and judging it by a standard it was never designed for anyway.
Am I reading Unz or the usual leftist blank slate talking points I am accustomed to getting in the mainstream press? You have an impressionable mind.
East Asians have consistently been at the very top in reading scores in PISA in all years. Not as well as in math but still at the world class level. Furthermore, why would 2nd gen migrants who are fluent in the native language do worse because of some diffuse “cultural factors” in a non-English speaking country? That’s nonsense on stilts.
You’re comparing a set of people who are extremely similar genetically, so yes I do tend to agree with you here. But PISA for the most part does not test groups who are extremely similar genetically. You’re taking an edge case in trying to explain the general pattern. Never a good idea.
Nobody here, as far as I am aware, argues for a 100% hereditian framework. But PISA is very g-loaded, as Rindermann has showed many years back (close to 0.80 or more IIRC), so while there is room for culture among very similar populations (like Northern Germanic nationalities), to argue that culture would be on equal standing with more harder constraints for the overall population would obviously be silly. Though, in fairness, you have not made that argument (yet).
Intelligence is the ability to learn new skills and mental models quickly, and to retain them.
Trivia on pointless bullshit like ‘German philosophy’ (may it rest in piss) is absolutely unrelated to intelligence.
(Or, rather, only related insofar as intelligence requires being good at memorizing things, but the actual content of what you’re memorizing is irrelevant for a memory test – memorizing ‘German philosophers’ is as valid a test of intelligence as memorizing apehoop statistics.)
I have to ask how much Bezos is shifting that average, his wealth is so massive that it could make a significant difference.
Bezos was born Jeffrey Preston Jorgensen on January 12, 1964, in Albuquerque, the son of Jacklyn Gise Jorgensen and Ted Jorgensen. At the time of his birth, his mother was a 17-year-old high school student, and his father was a bike shop owner. After Jacklyn divorced Ted, she married Cuban immigrant Miguel “Mike” Bezos in April 1968. Shortly after the wedding, Mike adopted four-year-old Jorgensen, whose surname was then changed to Bezos.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/did-jeff-bezos-ever-list-himself-as-hispanic/
He fucked his own sister..
In other news:
https://twitter.com/jarurik/status/953546546477453312?s=20
What season would you say we are in?
OI https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/12/07/the-jatts-do-descend-from-scythians/
We’re Massagetae Fk u Christcucked out.
NO IF NO BUT SIRF JATT
What are Saka capable of?
Well the first Jatt fought the Lord Vishnu to a stalemate and the duel was ceased due to the risk to the universe.
Guru’s Khalsa is mostly Saka.
Khalsa has been given Rule of all Creation||
ChakraVarti.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570365207491117076/652465786618642433/unknown.png
Christian Saka win Gold Medals.
Singh share Indra’s Golden Throne||
Have you looked under your bed? Bezos may be there.
Thanks for reply . It seems Central Asian nomads average IQ is substantially lower than East Asian farmers . Mongolian average IQ-101 5-th highest in the World is actually Inner Mongolian study . Inner Mongolians heavily mixed with Han Chinese.
Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs IQ is low . Especially average Kazakh IQ is only 82 . Genetically Western and Central Mongolians are quite close to Kazakhs .
Can you give me a reason that why Central Asian nomads average IQ is substantially lower than East Asian farmers ? Is it has to do with nomadic life ? Mongols are 85-95% Mongoloid people . There is a flynn effect for that gap , but there is also a genetic reason .
Hind will be united with Iran again?
You’re a retarded Jew.
Jatts are Massagetae.
brownpundits has a post on it.
https://timelesskhalsa.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/4935415146_0456b7a1f2.jpg?w=347&h=365&crop=1
Lot of Khalsa is Saka.
Khalsa is ChakraVarti, Ruler of all Creation||
Guys, i wonder what are you smoking.
Global Power Index, which is being used in the US National Security Council Global Trends reports.
https://imgur.com/a/0WVh4Pl
US Public Debt levels (Hint: If you live in the US you won’t get your pension).
http://www.crfb.org/sites/default/files/fig%201%2075%20year.JPG
One reason that would appear to make sense is that agricultural civilizations, especially advanced commercial ones such as those developed in Song China, in Western Europe from the late Middle Ages, and in Tokugawa Japan, selected for higher IQ amongst other personality characteristics (e.g. as argued by Greg Clark and Ron Unz).
thanks for the info
a little diference science is the entronization of masculine values of rationality against the more intuitive femenine side that characterized every previous non indo european culture ,is precisely with the rise of the heroic age that would prepare the terrain for the rise of men and with it the rise of science
merchants just like womans and jews in the other hand operate with the right side of the brain are genetically more adapted to verbal inteligence, are more intuitive,lack visual spacial inteligence ;they are more adapted to to manipulate not to create ,conspiring in the shadows to attain their objectives .
science is the gift of the sky people to this world.
thanks .ok
We are at the end of the culture that began in the Renaissance. Its 500 year run is over.
I used to think that we would slide gracefully into an Alexandrian scolasticism, where we would produce nothing new but tend the cultural gardens of the past 500 years of creativity.
But we are past that, and into the period of creative destruction. The rigid old forms are bring smashed, everything we are supposedly certain about and know is being overturned.
So it’s the period between decadence and renewal, between the destruction of the old and the birth of the new.
The excesses of this period can’t last, but they are necessary.
The situation in science is a bit different. Empiricism has hardened into scholasticism on the one hand, but there is also a concerted attempt to destroy the foundations of science and start anew. Which is necessary to break through the dead scholasticism that has emerged.
Science is empiricism, admitting you don’t know and experimenting.
This is both masculine and feminine – the scholasticism of the Middle Ages was pure masculine rationality, but science is also feminine in that it starts from a point of weakness – we don’t know – and a willingness to yield to reality. Science is also masculine, of course, in that it is bold and adventurous, and utilizes rationality.
Today, science has hardened into pure masculine rationality – we do not admit we don’t know, and we ignore details of reality that don’t fit our paradigm, rather than yield to reality.
Pure masculine rationality is sterile and dead, and the purely feminine is chaotic.
precisely admiting you dont know something is the epitome of masculinity have the strong will to challange the status quo only a paper reserved for the most heroic demigods of the greek indo european pantheon ,in other words it presuppose action you wouldnt face reality in all its crudity if you werent prepared to challange it and win against the passive recongnizment of conforting lies that represented the maternal gods of the pre aryan femenine cultures
that culture only can born in a free active and successfull warriors
Wouldn’t you say that adopting the posture of knowingnes is precisely the masculine posture? It is the posture of being in control, of being stronger, of being the Father who can handle everything.
Aristotle, the patron deity of medieval scholasticism, was said to be the king of all who Know.
Science starts by adopting a receptive posture – we don’t try and impose our ideas on reality, but receive the instruction of reality. This is esentially the feminine posture of receptivity and yielding.
Of course, science has a masculine aspect – smashing old forms that have grown rigid, and taking risks, being adventurous and daring.
Today, science has hardened into the bad masculine, we might say – the Father side of masculinity. It is no longer the youthful side of masculinity nor the essential feminne side.
Science is an old man with a gray beard, seeking to lay down the law.
Is it any wonder that young men with adventure in their veins will seek to overthrow him?
Smart fraction is a probably interesting concept for economists to understand why industries emerge in some countries but not others – however, PISA style of exam (which rewards 15 year old children decoding examiner’s intentions, and then conscientious completion of trivial tasks), is likely not a very accurate way identify future smart fractions.
–
If you want to look at something less abstract.
The fact American girls score 24 points higher than boys for PISA reading, equal for PISA science exam, and boys only 9 points higher for PISA maths.
Whereas, the “smart fraction” for most industries in the USA (including fashion industry, culinary industry, etc), is usually quite dominated by men.
Sure, but this is likely result of incentive structure, more than some innate ability.
Also it’s not necessarily very transferable from children’s exam culture, across to corporate culture. For example, Chinese children behave conscientiously in their PISA exam culture (PISA results imply they double check their responses).
On the other hand, Chinese manufacturing is stereotypically known for being not very conscientious, or at least likely to double check their products for mistakes. For example, if you buy something quite precise like optics -, then you can spend multiple times more to buy products made in Japan by Japanese workers, rather than those merely produced by Japanese companies in China with Chinese workers doing actual manufacturing of products.
PISA is useless for assessing actual gender differences.
Do not look for gender differences among children. Girls mature faster than boys and some results (such as reading scores) are quite different than those among adults. Look for them among adults. (Gender differences 101).
If you look at PIAAC (PISA for adults) you will see men scoring higher at reading and bigger difference in math. Science diffs increase as well among 12 graders. The same is true for a huge amount of cognitive tests.
According to some data variability differences too increase among adults.
With that said, you are correct about the variability issue, but you should look among adults, where both mean and variability gender differences are the largest, and not among children.
Sure, young age can be one part of the explanation.
–
But to our discussion, it also just adds a primitive inference.
[(PISA scores indicate academic intelligence differences) -> (Girls are more intelligent than boys)]
Not (Girls are more intelligent than boys)
[Not (PISA scores indicate academic intelligence differences)] or [Girls are more intelligent than boys]
∴
Not (PISA scores indicate academic intelligence differences)
Where is the “Scrabble Playing” category for Chisala?
Good piece on THE GODFATHER
https://moviekinks.blogspot.com/2019/11/american-realism.html
living under false premises sound pretty femenine instead of recognizing your limitation but striving for answers to end up overcoming them.
fully agree with the current status of science
the problem is that those talibans moved by resentment is that they wont bring a non dogmatic science but a secularized version of cristianity a new dark age in the making , keep in check all the deterministic ideologies using science to know who we are and the world around us but always with the finality to use as a tool to improve ourself so we dont end up devored by fatalistic deterministim.
the problem is when you give the truth or part of it but you dont offer any solution
for every redpill a whitepill
Does it matter? Assimilation will happen, unless there’s some resistance. By giving up Hungarian language education, that resistance would be weakened substantially, perhaps fatally. So, it won’t happen in the foreseeable future.
The fact that Hungarians in Romania didn’t have many institutes of higher learning by the 1980s surely didn’t contribute to this situation. /s
So you seem to affirm my previous point that Hungarians are not, in fact, doing quite well in the Romanian education system.
Anyway, my brother participated in one of these olympiads, in the informatics olympiad (IOI). (As a Hungarian from Hungary.) Back then (it was some years ago, let’s just keep it a secret which decade) there was talk about how in Romania there were specialized computer programming schools (or classes in some select schools? I can’t remember the details), whereas in Hungary there was no specialization and much lower quality education. It was probably part of the Romania envy one can often encounter in Hungary (“Romanians were smarter than us again…”), so I’m not sure how much truth there is to it, but I’m sure that in the Hungarian language education in Romania there’s much less specialization, for example. It’s simply more difficult to organize high quality specialized education for a bit over one million people than for ten or twenty million. It wouldn’t be impossible, though, so I’d expect the gap to narrow over the years.
That’s strange in light of the fact that Subcarpathia was the most backwards small rural backwater imaginable while Galicia already had relatively large cities in it. Though maybe the cities were Polish and Jewish only.
But as I wrote, while Hungarians were illiterate, too, you cannot expect as much effort (or resources etc.) to educate a rural backwater than in an elsewhere (Bohemia, German Austria, etc.) already highly literate country.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-olympic-medals.html
10 Hungary 491
I think I would bang.
Some countries, like Slovakia, Romania, Hungary etc. are heavily Gypsy-infested, so it only approximates native whites in countries without a “native” (i.e. long established) nonwhite populations. (I.e. without Gypsies.)
Thanks!
Of course the nonwhite minorities distort it, too, but probably not nearly as much as the overall averages. For example the French might have such a large minority of nonwhites that they needed the 96th percentile for the comparison to be fair relative to Hungary. (Though maybe not, if the rumors about the very high portion of Gypsy kids are to be believed.)
I remember reading that Swedes were less smart than Germans, but it might not be true – yes, the numbers are close, and education systems also definitely do play a part.
Even among boys and girls, this is unclear. Fluid intelligence tests point to no difference among boys and girls and to differences emerging after age of 16 – 17 that favor men (based on the average of all tests). Tests of G also, taken as a whole, point to no difference among 14 year olds and a difference emerging later. Same thing for most types of IQ tests.
In particular, the PISA tests do not contain spatial tests (and many other tests), where you get the largest gender differences (you get nearly 1SD difs in mental rotation or mechanical reasoning), so they are quite useless for assessing actual cognitive gender differences, both due to the age issue (score gender difs change with age) and due to the narrow scope of the tests.
In other words they are good for assessing gender differences in math, science and reading among 15 year olds (crystalized intelligence), but not good for assessing math, science and reading differences among adults (where tables turn and men get higher scores), and also not good for assessing fluid intelligence and many other cognitive abilities such as spatial ability.
“Effort” (conscientiousness) could also be part heritable.
Anyway it’s curious that you think data bad for Swedes is due to environmental factors, whereas data bad for others… not so much.
This South African thing is pretty horrible, and possibly true.
NYC + SF + Massachusetts + Wisconsin = 25 million
Isn’t that like 1/6th the population of China’s regions?
AND presumably those 150 million or w/e Chinese still noticeably outscore the averages of the top 25 million Americans.
If true then your comparison actually makes the Chinese results look even more impressive
In 1850 Lviv had 80,000 people, of whom about half were Poles, 1/3 were Jews and 15% were Ruthenians/Ukrainians.
Uzhorod only had about 10,000 people.
So there was a difference, but it wasn’t a huge one, Lviv was hardly a large metropolis. Lviv was 8 times more populous, but that only meant 70,000 more urban people, most of whom weren’t Ukrainians.
I’ve posted this before, but here is a great paper about the impact of literacy and nationalism and its results in western Ukraine, contrasting Galicia from Transcarpathia:
https://keithdarden.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/darden-natural-experiment.pdf
There are some minor inaccuracies in the details, and he overstates Russophilism in Transcarpathia (the province behaves like Soviet Central Ukraine – a huge contrast with Galicia, but very far from some sort of Donbas), but I think the whole article is worth reading, I’m wondering what your impression are (that having been said, I will be offline for awhile). Comparison between Galicia and Transcarpathia begins on page 14.
Yes, and here it’s also the trouble of Goodhart’s law — that a measure stops being a good measure once it becomes a target.
Ok but so then we can re-write it
[(PISA scores accurately track academic intelligence differences of future adults) -> (Women are more intelligent than men)]
Not (Women are more intelligent than men)
[Not (PISA scores accurately track academic intelligence differences of future adults)] or (Women are more intelligent than men)
∴
Not (PISA scores accurately track academic intelligence differences of future adults)
High PISA scores show healthy brains of children to concentrate, well-behaved students who double check their answers and motivated students (in relation to tests) who sit quietly in the classroom, and – probably the main thing – the kind of well organized societies which result in schools where teachers are prepared for the exam.
I remember Frédéric Cho — Sweden’s best-known China expert — saying, a year or two ago, that much of China’s bad press in Sweden is an American import. When Washington views China favorably, so does Stockholm; when Washington ramps up the rhetoric, Stockholm — and Sweden’s public opinion — follows suit.
There is a lot of truth to this, and the same argument broadly holds for Russia. Another factor is what I call Sweden’s overidentification with social liberalism and the postwar world order, which, simply put, means that Swedes are scared to death of anything that smells of authoritarianism (as defined by liberal standards).
That is indeed unlikely, and also not my view. My point about cultural differences — which by the way go well beyond language — mainly relates to differences between countries.
I haven’t, you’re right — and I won’t. My main point is that these should be seen as very crude figures. Africa is clearly well behind south-east Asia, with Europe somewhere in between. But variations within these regions might simply be noise.
I haven’t had SPSS for some time. But it could be interesting to make charts from this data in Tableau. I won’t really do much about it unless someone has a cool idea.
Any thoughts on Ron contemplating an hourly rate?
Is he just trolling us, or is he as big a crank as that?
I skimmed this article and immediately noticed a glaring issue with it. How can one seriously write about the nationality issue of Zakarpattya without even mentioning the focal point of its Ukrainian orientation including the efforts of locals to create an autonomous state of their own in 1939, the short lived “Carpatho-Ukraine”. This effort at trying to create its own state showed the world that the inhabitants of this region clearly felt themselves to be a part of the larger Ukrainian nation. Over reliance of Paul Magocsi and John Paul Himka are other possible defects that become immediately apparent from a quick cursory view. Don’t have time to read the whole things now…don’t know if I ever will?
https://youtu.be/GTzMvgfFwn8
Real historical footage!
It’s worth reading.
Carpatho-Ukraine was a project that received definite, but lukewarm, support among natives. It wasn’t like Galicia. Anyways, I’m going offline for a bit.
Sure, the fact that Galicia had a more developed infrastructure lent itself to a more pronounced crystalization of its Ukrainain orientation. But compare the cultural elites at the top of the pyramid in both communities, very similar. Carpatho Ukrainian intelligentsia was clearly in favor of a Ukrainain orientation.
The greatest literary figure in Zakarpattya’s 20th century was Vasyl Grendzha-Donsky, a great figure within Carpatho Ukraine’s history.. To this day, I think that Magocsi has nightmares about this man, spending most of his career trying to denegrate and shove him off of his high pedestal. He’ll never succeed as Grendzha-Donsky’s name and stature remains unassailable among his people, to this day. His birthday is always accompanied by civic fanfare and adulating copy within the local press.
Byzantium endured.
Unless we have full data on how many gypsies are tested, those conclusions are premature.
Slovakia’s decent mathematics score (close to OECD average) means that I doubt that gypsies have any significant impact, given that Czechs do not perform massively better in mathematics and are very similar ethnically/culturally/genetically, but Czechia does not have a huge gypsy population.
Unless, of course, you’re willing to go with the theory that gypsies have a very strong mathematical aptitude but somehow are weak in reading and science (where Slovakia does very poorly).
The gypsy argument is unconvincing.
Why did the Brahmins become vegetarian?
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/SAMPLING-IN-PISA.pdf
They usually exclude minority language students. That’s probably some 8-10% of students. Gypsies are estimated at 9% of the population (so likely over 15% of schoolchildren), which clearly means not all of them are excluded. But I think I already wrote that to you.
There’s also a problem of Slovakia being extremely rural by European standards, which might increase exclusion rates.
Where can I find exclusion statistics for countries? I’m on cell phone. Apparently they nowhere include a simple table of that.
As I had shown above in comment 216, the countries’ veto on both specific schools and students nominated by OECD for testing, https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/2018technotes-11.asp
Perhaps the best combo of cute and dominating:
https://www.rt.com/sport/475306-grand-prix-russians-victory/
Government support can mean anything from the central army to the local elected goon.
Definitely true and is a core part of democracy.
Same thing used to happen in Bihar until Upper Caste Militias formed.
Most of the social problems in India are from the lower caste + muslim no longer being restrained.
Ambedkar is a fraud.
Brahmin never ate beef but the Buddhism or general Shramanic thing is true & common knowledge.
Many Brahmin still ate meat of ritual sacrifice as that is considered separate of normal diet.
The toxicity of these comment threads has decreased by more than 80%!
This is extremely disappointing and puts the continued existence of this blog in great peril.
Please up the level of toxic behavior in order to keep alive the spirit of inquiry,
I will try.
Hindus are dirty but yall are dirtier!
Scarcity and social exclusion seem like the most convincing explanations.
Are we to believe that Hinduism had no dietary exclusions even though it had a rigid and ancient caste system? I do not believe it. And then, if diet allowed them to beat the Buddhists, how come it didn’t work in Sri Lanka?
Very good questions. Just a note in passing: Dr Ambedkar converted to Buddhism late in his life, so his personal biases should be kept in mind when reading these paragraphs.
It simply may not had needed it. Buddhism came before Islam and before Buddhism there was no major religious rival. Of course, most Hindus did not think of themselves as Hindus simple on account of not needing it. Only when a rival religion arises, does your own distinctions become sharper.
Great question to which I have no answer. Perhaps the geographic isolation of Sri Lanka gave an upstart an edge, given that it was harder for an incumbent to call in help from the outside than it was for someone on a large connected landmass. Just a guess, though.
Given how rapidly the indian population expanded and how fertile the Northern Ganges plain is, I am not sure if scarcity was their primary problem (parasitic load and diseases is more likely).
Social exclusion, in Dr. Ambedkar’s view, was the guiding light of the Brahmin class and when their social rule came under sustained attack, their conversion to vegetarianism became a useful social tool. If you think about it, many religions use food as a tool for social control. Certainly Islam and Judaism do. It becomes a way to mark out those on the outside. Moral justification is always given, but Ambedkar’s theory is of course far less charitable, but nevertheless fascinating.
These may all be academic and historical debates, but this caste system has very real repercussions even up to our time. These past few weeks, there have been a wave of rapes in the news in India. Two stand out. One in Hyderabad, another in Unnao.
In Hyderabad, four underclass rapists went after a veterinarian Hindu woman. Some of the rapists were moslem. The Indian police summarily executed them to great public cheering after an intense period of ourage in the media.
Another case happened in Unnao, Uttar Pradesh. There, the rapists were five high-caste men(four Trivedi and one Bajpai) who raped a victim of lower social standing. When she bravely decided to book them for their crimes, and went on her own to the courtroom for the trial, they intercepted her and burned her alive. She managed to run 1 km(!) before she collapsed. The doctors tried to save her life but she died a few days ago.
Nothing has yet happened to them and the media is far more circumspect. There is some discussion in the media but far from the intensive outrage. While the caste system is not as blatant for the most part in India in the manner it was during Dr. Ambedkar’s life, it is very much present in the social fabric and it rears its ugly head from time to time.
Heard the reason Buddhism died in much of India, but stayed alive in Sri Lanka is that monasticism (something more essential to Buddhism) requires state-sponsorship. This in turn requires a certain level of stability and a lack of anarchy, so that taxes can be collected, etc.
I think it is an interesting theory. One can see how consolidating political control over an island would be easier. Though, I guess it might require one to explain why China and India had different outcomes.
It is my pet theory that this lack of monasticism explains how India’s history seems to patchier than China’s or Europe’s. But maybe, it is circular logic, if we can’t explain the reason for the lack of monasticism. And I’m much too ignorant to say whether Sri Lankan history is actually more precise or not.
A lot of that expansion had to do with New World crops – potatoes and peanuts. The amount of calories and protein available increased significantly. Then, on top of that, one must also add new varieties of old crops bred by Europeans to have much higher yields, and new agricultural techniques, like artificial nitrogen fixation. Despite all that, India received food aid for a long time.
The thing that I find fascinating about caste in India is how it seems to transcend religion. Christianity, Islam, and Sikhism all seem structurally more egalitarian, but each seems to perpetuate some idea of caste.
It is (I don’t give a hoot about IQ measurement, but you have Mongolia’s IQ measured or evaluated): https://montsame.mn/en/read/177121
Ulaanbaatar /MONTSAME/ Using the number of Nobel Prizes won, current average IQ and educational attainment, Vouchercloud website revealed the smartest 25 countries in the world.
In the list of the countries with the highest average IQ, Mongolia was ranked 12th with an average IQ of 100. Forbes highlighted it is surprising to see Mongolia in 12th place while the US doesn’t even make the top 25. With an average IQ of 107.1, Singapore topped the list.
So u support caste mixing? .. Have fun being executed.
Calcutta is full of kidnapped Hindu girls.
UP which is one of BIMARU states vs Hyderabad being an IT capital explains a lot.
You want India’s smart fractions mixed into the subalterns so it can be forever poor & converted.
Indians perfer talking about their ‘community‘ rather than caste these days, but that is essentially what they mean. Comparing India to China is common but I have not found it that useful, because India is much more diverse and fragmented. Comparing it to Europe makes more sense.
Nevertheless, what would the European equivalent of caste be? I am not sure if there is a perfect, let alone acceptable, match these days. The closest I can think of is ethnicity. But even there, there are too many castes to be comparable.
Therefore, I do not think post-Enlightenment (which was also a time of national consolidation) Europe is the best guide here but rather pre-1600 Europe. A time when you had many different ethnicities and sub-identities within Europe. Think of how many there were in Germany, and back then those ethnicities actually meant something.
The difference between India and Europe is that over time those boundaries in Europe merged and became greater nationalities. Svabians still exist on paper in Germany but it is not a real identity in the sense that it is coherent and self-sufficient with strong boundaries anymore. More a weak cultural artifact. Whereas in India, those sub-national identities are still very strong.
Seen in this light, it wouldn’t be hard to understand why caste changes far harder than religion.
Thanks!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650538464940392448/653538372081549312/unknown.png
Saxons had caste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570365207491117076/653552636510863360/QjKUV6CC.png
Those differences didn’t merge, they were destroyed and created Swede Jews like you.
Who go on to war with their own race over semetic concepts like the holy foreskin and status of blacks.
This is an excellent point. I have always found the distinction between the Ashraf, Ajlaf and Arzal in Subcontinental Islam both perplexing and fascinating. As you most definitely already know Razib Khan has written extensively about this and the Caste structures present in Sikhism and South Asian Christianity.
I’ve wondered whether it was a mistake to attempt to standardize regional dialects by teaching only one form in schools. That is to say, from a nationalist perspective. Though, I suppose one can make an argument about it going either way.
I tend to think that the reason that caste persists is that it represents real biological differences, at least on some level. So much of the egalitarian rhetoric about Dalits reminds me of stuff that one would hear in America about blacks.
If it really is so, one wonders what the long term effects of the caste system have been. Has it preserved intelligence, or limited its spread? Has universalism negatively impacted India’s development? All interesting questions.
Dalits open need half the score on a test to get the same position.
Smalanders are the smartest of them all.
Finland’s government is now led by these five party leaders.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELSBmj5XUAESKJv.jpg
The real question is why a bunch of suicidal white progs want to take India with them?
You want to mix with low iq rabble go ahead.
India’s Hi Iq High Caste will not.
All of your political systems like feminism, capitalism & democracy are meant to cause caste mixing.
The death of the white race is best for the Earth.
#Pagang
https://www.instagram.com/p/B55-A4kFEk3/
https://www.instagram.com/p/B51Ijo4lhue/
Let’s see who takes the bait..
Diet is probably a bigger cause of Indian backwardness for now.
https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/india-shows-why-the-global-shift-to-plant-based-diets-is-dangerous/250958/
All quite unattractive.
I would note that caste-based behavior, which required costly signaling and taboos to maintain, almost certainly contributes to such weirdness. I think there’s a case to be made that extreme forms of particularism(the opposite of universalism) also leads to pretty toxic ends, which can be seen not only in India but also in Africa, where in parts of it stealing to benefit one’s family is seen as virtuous and serves to undermine any state governance.
https://swarajyamag.com/magazine/gods-god-unity-unit
Except Vedic religion is the last true universalist one.
Most Indian problems are related to Islam.
Don’t blame Russian backwardness on nomads then forget that India dealt with more.
An Italian commented that the Vijaynagara King’s horse had more jewels than all of Italy.
It really doesn’t matter what a religion, organization or individual says(or even believes in) but rather the actual effect/actions of said entity. India’s extreme ethnocentric behavior, which can be seen both locally and offshore, leads to a plethora of issues but even historically, one of the reasons for the comparative weakness of Indian forces is the lack of mass organization.
Caste practices are a disaster in an non-isolated universe.
This could function in an isolated world, but we do not live in one, as noted:
We just mean marrying within Jaat.
—
Neither was there much concern voiced among the local Brahmins, who were the ultimate arbiters in matters of morality—though this is hardly surprising, since the most prominent moneylenders were often Brahmins themselves.
—
Stuff like this or even the Hindu practice of eating alone, thus spreading camps out over miles is not part of Khalsa.
Brahmin are not supposed to be money lenders but beggars themselves lol.
Societies which forget the essence of their Dharma always falter.
one of the reasons for the comparative weakness of Indian forces is the lack of mass organization.
Nobody who’s fought them believes so. Assaye was considered harder than Waterloo by the Duke.
Mass organization comes from states & Indian statehood was disrupted by nomads post Ghazni/Ghori (1000s ad)
Notice that explanations for Indian events centre away from material into the mystical.
Indian culture, religion and caste rather than the burning libraries, proximity to C Asian nomads & climatic factors.
Would you explain Russian backwardness or Chinese stagnation on cultural/religious factors?
Indian success is constantly doubted simply because of the Abrahamic vs Dharmic divide.
Islamic accounts say the soldiers of Hind do not know flight from battle.
The Islamic tide was turned several times, and a warm period in central asia is caused the Turkic surge 1000-1200 ad. (Ghazni, Ghori, Khilji etc.)
N Iran & Afghanistan did not fall until this time.
Without gunpowder much of Eastern India would never have fallen.
https://twitter.com/Parikramah/status/885581828362567680
A lot of areas lost their agricultural base due to Turks destroying water works.
Western Madhya Pradesh for example.
The standard prose narrative of India is: Islam conquered because of caste so you should do inter caste marriage.
That entire narrative is inaccurate, disgusting and frankly anyone professing it must be executed.
Indic reluctance to enslave/slaughter non-combatants vs Islamic zeal for the same explains the entire history more than anything.
Those grandoise maps made by whites + jews sitting in Harvard of grand Islamic empires are fantasy.
Timur didn’t dare venture out of Dilli due to Jat village militias let alone organized armies.
China was invaded by Pagans who could be absorbed into the civ.
India absorbed Huns, Sakas & other nomad C Asian tribes.
Islam was a key differentiator and will just take longer. :shrug:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-Vt263XsAAtvdm?format=jpg&name=900×900
Hinduism went through Brahmin-centric reforms around the Gupta age.
Those are afflicting it today but the Warrior is Second Highest in Hinduism.
In the Abrahamic ideology the Warrior is dead last.
Solution is obviously going back to the Roots.
https://mobile.twitter.com/moomjamma/status/1110950951794499585
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570365207491117076/651655647162662912/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570365207491117076/651655542850322442/unknown.png
https://swarajyamag.com/magazine/gods-god-unity-unit
See, like the main issue is that as long as you RW larpers oppose India returning to its traditional culture, you won’t ever get to return to your’s.
Liberalism is seen to be world ruining but an improvement for India.
Either way, it’s a lost cause to demonize Hind.
Already a nation without peer in the realm of legends.
Bravely stood against the Abrahamic barbarians for millenia while others fell in decades.
Yall eventually gonna realize an Akali Nihang is the true form of Man.
https://twitter.com/P0lR0T/status/1202284674770333696
https://twitter.com/sialmirzagoraya/status/1201434955559112704
https://twitter.com/PanthicPikachu/status/1200917819765837825
https://twitter.com/sialmirzagoraya/status/1202492660742791169
https://twitter.com/sialmirzagoraya/status/1202108922187993088?s=20
https://twitter.com/msinghau/status/1202183856343805952?s=20
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK8dgqLWwAAHg23.jpg:large
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/653857894483361792/654667824446570516/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/653857894483361792/654670758831718430/EK2aiOtWwAA9j5r.png
Karlin delete or hide w/e comments you see fit. Chieh nothing personal vs you just deconstructing a narrative.
Tbh, Indian democracy & Hinduism generally is irrelevant going forward.
Democracy is already broken anyplace that is above 20% Abrahamic.
Militant Hindus overlap with or are lead by traditional Sikh.
The RW militant outfits all founded by Sikh & even the recent case around Ram Mandir,
the main evidence to give it to the Hindus was centred around Sikh actions.
Here’ the main issue:
https://twitter.com/sialmirzagoraya/status/1201939084895301632
https://twitter.com/sialmirzagoraya/status/1201941215731687426?s=20
Gandhi managed to get 1 Lakh arrests over many years & out of all India.
Sikh who are 1.5% managed almost double that in less time. 😉
—
https://www.patreon.com/posts/purpose-of-dasam-23957882
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570365207491117076/654676340200439819/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570365207491117076/654676160395083816/unknown.png
I don’t really understand the click-baiting & comparisons btw countries, iq, hbd, etc.
If you want to fight for a cause, go for it. If you want to be a coward, so be it.
I’ve asked around & that account is bullshit.
http://indiafacts.org/missionaries-sati-colonial-india/
http://indiafacts.org/sati-historical-evidence/
Not much different from Assad’s gas attacks or the Kuwaiti babies.
India quite literally couldn’t stand up against any sustained attack, being invaded twelve times in a row by just a single person.
Indeed, it is hard to find any successful Indian defense against organized invasion.
India was often praised for how well and organized its small towns were, functioning without currency, but it was a strong indication of how lacking of an large-scale organization capable of conducting defense(or anything else, for that matter). And this is indeed culturally involved and highly tied to the caste system that both provided for that low-level functionality as well as the higher level dysfunctionality.
China is not a good comparison in such, fighting off(and expanding into) steppe territory via literally hundreds of small wars. The defeat of the Song by the Mongols came through only through hundreds of years of decline starting from the An Lushan rebellion causing the Tang to collapse, the smaller Song eventually baiting the Jurchen to invade, and then a long and bitter Song-Jurchen war that ended with Mongols(invited by the Song!) defeating both(ironically, perhaps, the Jurchen deserve more credit for actually breaking the back of the Song). The Yuan itself only lasted eighty years, too. After that, the Ming would fight over three hundred wars in three hundred years, including a foreign war in Korea until finally internal rebellion by Li Zicheng would break its back and the Manchu took the opportunity.
So, no, it isn’t the same. But at the same time, I would in fact blame Chinese stagnation and more importantly, the accumulated bulk of bureaucracy on cultural and religious factors(as did Chinese contemporaries themselves did, such as Koxinga, who deplored Confucianism). It is, after all, impossible to have a society that doesn’t have culture, and the successes and failures of the society all have some root in that culture and religion.
Quite right-the surname Peresild is of Estonian origin
Although the overall population of Pskov as the researchers write, demonstrates genetic affinity not with the Finns, but with the Balts
For comparison, the sixty plus years needed to conquer China by the Mongols, dogged resistance and struggle even after ouster from China(the same thing would happen after the fall of the Ming).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_China
One that they would not even be able to hold onto for any length of time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_dynasty#Founding
Only about eighty years.
Once Hongwu Emperor, he would proceed to finish off the Yuan in Yunnan and throughout the northeast.
Ghazni raided mostly into West Panjab which was sparsely populated until the Industrial era.
He’d often be on horses against heavier Rajput infantry.
They wrecked him when he entered the populated hinterland near Delhi.
Read Savarkars epoch of Indian history.
Guerilla tactics along the frontier has been the norm.
India still maintains its native culture despite centuries of foreign elite dominance.
I posted about even rural householders having mud forts and match locks to resist tax collectors.
You already know about Sikh.
Qasim invaded 20+ times.
Should Indian armies chase nomads into the deserts of Herat & Balochistan?
You’re a Hong Kong christcuck right.
Indians have a strong & proud military tradition, they didn’t burn every single of their ancestral temples in the name of Mao.
I’m sure you can find some bois from Surrey or Brampton, and tell them all about your opinions.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/570365207491117076/654769554257346580/IMG_20191129_120810.jpg
Any issues with Indic civ are fixed with Sikhi.
Beyond that, from what I know you’re not a violent person.
Why worry about this stuff?
A Warrior’s death means less to you than a Mansion.
India is flat land, you need to defer to local caste based militias & concentrate power in the centre.
All you want to see is caste mixing because the British who converted you did.
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5493955.html#cutid1
Ukraine news. Their ATO heroes are being burned by current government. Responsible for killings that they used to attribute to FSB.
https://twitter.com/_StephKramer/status/1205203859980861441
Putting this here Loutish may like it.
Some good takeaways
Hindu seniors least likely to live alone & Hindus most likely to be in extended family.
Christians have highest rate of single mothers, and USA as a country.
Sad to see Muslims with 5% in Polygamous households.
Just a few decades ago 1/10 Hindu men had multiple wives||
Chieh cuck your comment about culture vs status of women is on point.
Wonder what the future holds??
Incorrect. My death always interests me less than the death of my enemies.
Iron wombs and surrogacy.
Here’s another myth about food
Mainly spices to cover up rotting meat
Destroyed.
https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/bluing-meat/
Have you ever heard the story that early modern Brits used a bunch of spices on their meat to cover up the taste of rot?
It turns out that this is a myth, a tall tale created by people misunderstanding cookbooks that gave instructions for properly rotting meat before eating it:
Myers also notes that the idea of putting spices on rotten meat is also absurd because spices were horribly expensive–often worth their weight in gold. It would be rather like someone looking at a gold-leaf wrapped caviar and concluding the gold was there to distract the peasants from the fact that fish eggs are disgusting. You would have completely misread the dish. In the Medieval case, it would be cheaper to buy fresh meat than to dump spices on it.
That’s actually a good point.
Let’s ignore 1000 years of Jihad & blame it on “caste” because feminism is good, goyim.
Caste based behavior actually supports aspects of feminism; a significant contrast to patriarchal polygyny to keep low class concubines, intramarriage serves to limit male choice amd creates a weird particularist dynamic of clan preference that actively works against the heroic figure as we understand it(e.g. Conan).
So more news from my favorite communist.
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/5500293.html
Ukranian football player in Spain cries from being called a Nazi by Spanish fans.
no, cuz the king marries all over.
The prob with India was the native elite being replaced by Jihadis along the indo gangetic plain or becoming subaltern.
This created a dynamic where the brahmin was the highest ranking Hindu instead of the Ksyatria.
Trad Hindu kingdoms often elevated various tribes to a dif Varna.
O well, caste aint going away either so :shrug:
Christcucks hate caste cuz Lol it reminds them that they come from untouchables.
@melanf
@Swedish Family
At the start of local iron age at least 50% of the Baltic region was still speaking finnic. And most finnics lived to the south of the Bay of Finland until the Livonian War. Thus the benchmark for finnics are estonians, not finns. Furthermore, based on genetic data, balts rather cluster with estonians, not with poles or ukrainians – that means that balts have a distant finnic origin. And finally, finnic language reached Estonia from the south, not from the east nor north.
And as to the affinity of Finns, since Finns are a genetic isolate, it is more important who are similar to Finns, not how similar Finns are to some others when compared to some third ethnic group.