Charles Bausman (Russia Insider): It’s Time to Drop the Jew Taboo
The most vitriolic and obsessive Russia-bashing journalists in the media are mostly Jewish. The publications which push these writers most energetically are ALL Jewish-owned, and as a publisher, I know very well, that is where the buck stops.
On the policy side, the neo-conservative movement, Russia’s harshest foe, was conceived of, is led by, and consists mostly of, Jews. And their trouble-making extends far beyond Russia – they are responsible for America’s disastrous debacle in the Middle East over the last 20 years – where their crimes have been stymied by precisely one country – Russia. The psychotically anti-Russian recent UN ambassadors, Nikki Haley and Samantha Power, were put there by the Israel lobby, and given an independent brief, in other words, they answer not to their presidents, rather to their Jewish sponsors.
In Congress the biggest Russia-Gate tub-thumpers are noticeably Jewish – Schiff, Schumer, Blumenthal, Franken (although not as overwhelmingly as in the media). The Israel lobby routinely enforces legislation hostile to Russia. Bill Browder with his Magnitsky Sanctions – is Jewish.
This is objectively true. Heck, don’t ask me, someone who writes for a site famous for its “mix of far-right and far-left anti-Semitic crackpottery” (as per the Jew Cathy Young). Ask J-Pod.
Rachel Maddow, the nation’s most popular and influential liberal political show host is Jewish. She has gone so overboard demonizing Russia and pushing Russiagate that she has become a figure of fun. On the print side, the list is the same – the ones shrieking the loudest are mostly Jews, and disproportionately female – and there is an important lesson there too – Masha Gessen, Anne Applebaum, and Julia loffe, to name a few.
Also true.
I speculated about the deep causes of this in my classic article on The 5 Types of Russian-American back in 2012:
A controversial assertion, perhaps… But one need only drop a few names: Anne Applebaum (Putin stole my wallet), Miriam Elder (Putin stole my drycleaning ticket), Julia Ioffe (I hate objectivity), Masha Gessen (Putin has no face), Anna Nemtsova (Russian dudes suck).
One thing that really stands out is that it is female Jews who dislike Russia more than anything, at least among Western journalists. As this post has already pushed well beyond all respectable limits of political correctness, I might as well go the full nine yards and outline my theory of why that is the case. In my view, the reasons are ultimately psycho-sexual. Male Jews nowadays have it good in Russia, with many Slavic girls attracted to their wealth, intelligence and impeccable charm (if not their looks). But the position of Jewesses is the inverse. They find it hard to compete with those same Slavic chicks who tend to be both hotter and much more feminine than them; nor, like Jewish guys, can they compensate with intelligence, since it is considered far less important for women. This state of affairs leads to sexual frustration and permanent singledom (pump and dump affairs don’t count of course), which in turn gives rise to the angry radical feminism and lesbianism that oozes out of this piece by Anna Nemtsova bemoaning Russia’s “useless bachelors”.
Steve Sailer’s Law of Female Journalism rears its head again.
Charles Bausman’s thesis is of course a controversial one, and I don’t agree with some things at both the macro level – high Jewish verbal IQ partially, though not fully, explains the overrepresentation of Jews amongst elite Russophobes – as well as some of the historical details at the micro level.
However, he is correct at a broad level.
Again, don’t ask me. As the Twitter mentions for this article make clear, the people he is talking about make the case far more succinctly than I could.
Oops.
Well the usual way the censors of the pro-jewish lobbies deal with such outbreaks of inconvenient truth is to arrange for the perpetrator to be sacked by cowards or collaborators (see Giraldi and TAC for a notable recent example).
Presumably as editor and publisher of a crowd-funded operation, though, Bausman is fairly safe on that score and some other means of silencing or further marginalising him will have to be found. I’d advise him not to visit any of the more overtly unfree states of the EU and UK in the near future, where people have been prosecuted for far lesser speech-crimes against the interests of the jewish identity lobby than his (eg Alison Chabloz, harassed and prosecuted in the UK merely for uploading music to the internet that jewish lobbyists and their virtue signalling collaborators found objectionable).
Does Bausman live in Russia? I hope he’s not arrested for hate speech.
As usual all the people screeching about this cannot show anything written that is false. However one should take this beyond simply just Russia and point out that jews are the ones behind the internet mass censorship, mass third world immigration, miscegenation propaganda and the general anti white culture.
Could be wrong, but among the “Pro-Russian” authors, the Jews overrepresented too, (although to a lesser degree). As an example – Stephen Cohen.
Sure, hence my comment on the verbal IQ.
However, one can name about a dozen prominent Jewish Russophobes for every prominent Cohen. For other journalists the ratio is perhaps 1:4.
Moreover, they almost completely dominate the most unhinged part of the spectrum (Ioffe, Elder, Applebaum, Nemtsova, Weiss, etc.) Most prominent really hardcore Gentile anti-Russian journalists I can think of are Ed Lucas and Luke Harding.
The Jews would probably not be that noticeable if they had the IQs and wider influence of, say, Latvians, who might be even more Russophobic on average. But they do, and people have a right to point that out.
England is not sending its best.
Jews have an unusually high propensity for talking about things above their intellectual level. Some people call it high verbal IQ. I call it “constant fear of actual work”.
No doubt there are many reasons for Russsophobia among Russian Jews in the US, but I suspect that at least one important aspect is that “Brezhnev’s Jews” did have some legitimate grievances that left a bitterness so lasting it passed onto their children. On the other hand, I know a fair number of Jews in Moscow scientific circles, and although some of them suffer from Putin derangement syndrome, I wouldn’t call any of them Russophobes. Most of them at some point lived in Israel, ultimately decided to return to Russia, and make important contributions to scientific and social life in Moscow. Note that in both cases (Russian Jews living in the US and writing for newspapers there and Russian Jews who prefer to live in Russia), there is obvious selection bias. It would be quite interesting to see ethnic statistics on Echo Moskvy and its listeners.
Well in fairness we sent over John Derbyshire some time back, and apart from a neocon brainfart in supporting the attack on Iraq (for which iirc he has since had the grace to apologise) he’s been pretty solid on most of the really important issues.
And in return we’ve had to put up with the likes of moral degenerates Kevin Spacey and Madonna.
I’ve been hoping we could offload the noxious JK Rowling onto the Yanks, but unfortunately she’s so far refused to go further than Scotland, notwithstanding she seemed a possible candidate for being part of an outflow of leftist celebrity sewage after the glorious Brexit vote.
Jewish billionaire Bernie Ecclestone put it well:
Russia, with many Slavic girls attracted to their wealth, intelligence and impeccable charm
No wonder there is no need for a heaven in Judaism. Why would it be needed with a H. Weinstein paradise on earth like this available for all?
Hey, come to think of it one of my g-grandmothers had a funny sounding German name.
Presumably an attempt at the usual: “I can point to a counter-example, so the claim that there is any collective jewish approach adopted by most influential jewish people to the issue is utterly wrong, and probably motivated by irrational anti-Semitism”.
Bit pointless, as the far better example of Stephen Cohen has already been raised on the thread.
Ecclestone though is an interesting character. Hardly your typical jewish magnate, although he was a notorious Labour Party donor in the Blair years when the government deliberately opened up the mass immigration floodgates in service to the classic unholy alliance of big business seeking to undercut indigenous labour’s wages and political power, with leftist ideologues and opportunists seeking to “rub the right’s noses in diversity”.
Putin is not the only political strongman whose record of effectiveness evidently appealed to Ecclestone. Wikipedia notes:
Wikipedia
I noticed this years ago, that an unproportional amount of Russophobic pundits were Jewish, same with the (now-disenfranchised) oligarchs that bankroll them and their “think tanks”, “councils”, various rags, public events et cetera.
Wouldn’t beat the “ZOG”-drum myself, but it is rather peculiar and absolutely not in any way anti-Semitic to notice/point out. I found it rather amusing to read the various theories floated above as to why this is, though I really can’t subscribe to any.
Whatever the reason, that Mr. Bausman made a number out of it will most certainly make RI spiral even quicker towards irrelevancy. It started off as a noble endeavour if I may say so myself, but has become a sensationalist tabloid over time, with a lot of questionable contributions, many articles with obvious sub-standard fact checking, way too much conspiracy stuff and way too much apologism of (even glorification of) blatantly stupid or off-beat things said by Russian public figures, officials and so on and so forth.
Now, I strongly suspect that this anti-Semite thing will hang over it like a dark cloud, whether objectively warranted or not, as well.
Too bad, but frankly it seems like most attempts to improve Russia’s image in the eyes of Western audiences end up rather like this. It’s as if nobody can keep it at a reasonable (handshakeable, PC, factual) level, whether they’re private initiatives with voluntary contributions (like RI) or something bigger, perhaps even paid for by Russia in some way (like the abomination that is Sputnik)
The result is, obviously, that the whole shebang winds up being counter-productive at the end of the day.
Can you name some prominent Jewish or Non-Jewish non-Russophobes? Other than Cohen, I can’t think of any.
Well in fairness we sent over John Derbyshire some time back
Like TBRS said.
There’s no accounting for taste, I suppose.
Can you link to some A. Applebaum “unhinged” stuff?
I read her Red Famine and it was impressive and scholarly.
Edward Lozansky – Has occasional op-eds in Washington Times, heads what amounts to pretty much the entirety of what one might consider a “Russia Lobby” in D.C.
There is the academic Vladimir Goldstein.
There is also, of course, Israel Shamir. Though his outlook is pretty… specific.
There is a certain finance person, but is not actively involved in media or academia, so wouldn’t qualify. I can’t think of anybody else.
Obviously there are no shortage of such people in Russia itself but they are very rare outside of it.
There are of course a great deal of leftist Jews who are Bernie types who are neutral towards Russia (i.e. “Russophile” by the warped standards of the discourse). Glenn Greenwald and Max Blumenthal come to mind.
So let me see if I’ve understood your anonymous contribution here.
1 The point made by Bausman is correct, you’ve noticed it yourself, and you haven’t seen a really convincing explanation for it. But noticing it, as Bausman does, and mentioning it isn’t anti-Semitic, in your opinion.
2 Though it isn’t in your opinion anti-Semitic, nevertheless this “anti-Semite thing will hang over it like a dark cloud”, and will be “counterproductive at the end of the day”.
So it appears it is your opinion that there is something in our modern society that makes noticing and mentioning this kind of thing “unreasonable” and “antisemitic” even when it isn’t in your opinion anti-Semitic and even when it is in your opinion correct, but nevertheless it’s “counterproductive” to confront that whatever it might be.
OK.
There’s no accounting for taste, I suppose.
There you go again.
I’m ignoring the insults for a while, just to see how it works.
It’s against my nature.
Michelle O. says we should go high when they go low. I’ve always thought that when they go low, you should go lower and when they go high, you should go higher.
I could’ve expressed myself clearer.
It’s not anti-Semitic to point it out, but in all honesty it serves little purpose to do so, especially given how PR savvy you have to be when trying to push something as unpopular as Russophilia these days. The environment is deeply unjust, but it is what it is and these guys’ efforts to promote Russia require some serious tip-toeing. It is very counter-productive to this “cause” to do what RI is doing… Have you seen their YouTube channel for instance? It’s just all Alex Jones-y and sensational and, well, pretty much what I described above. Throwing in something that will undoubtedly be perceived and demonized as being anti-Semitic by a load of infinitely more influential people on top of that is just tactless in that context.
Anyone watching MacMafia. TV thriller about international crime based very loosely on the themes of (1/4 jewish) Misha Glenny’s non-fiction book.
Of course Russia is the source of all crime according to the series, but very clearly it is mostly jewish Russians and in particular Russians with Israeli connections that run MacCrime.
I’m a little surprised they got away with this script.
Goodness you’re stupid. Thank the universe I feel grateful to my countrymen.
LOL! OK. Well I suppose it beats trying to explain your own nonsense.
Though I’m not sure how somebody who thinks “thank the universe” is a sensible thing to say has any standing to call other folk’s intelligence into question.
What Randy is trying to point out is this: It is not anti-Semitic, per se, to point out that we have wall to wall Jewish players in a particular situation. But, if you do that, you will be labeled as such, that is, as anti-Semitic.
Why? Catcha 22.
If you name the Jews, you have to explain why you think that it is important that they should be named and considered.
You call that prominent? No one had ever heard of them, aside from Russia watchers. What are their platforms? An occasional op-ed in a third tier newspaper and…? Well, Stephen Cohen gets invited to Fox once in a blue moon.
On the other side of the ledger you’ve got Washington Post columnists, famous TV show hosts, sitting US senators, and so on, and on, and on.
Incidentally, I notice that 100% of the people you named are Jewish. Which tells me this is not about ethnic origins.
Only anti-Russian Jews are allowed access to the megaphone, and the same is true about any other ethnicity.
I can see the argument you’re making. Perhaps RI are taking a contrary view based upon the “no publicity is bad publicity” approach?
Alternatively they could be just genuinely taking the view that meets the eye – that the problem of jewish Russophobia in US sphere media and politics is sufficiently important that it is worth highlighting, for a journal seeking to oppose Russophobia, even at the cost of creating some more difficulties for their publication. If nothing else, it might at least go some way towards shifting the Overton window to make the operations of these media Russophobes run a little less smoothly, by preventing them from so easily suppressing any highlighting of their evident ulterior motives.
You might also be correct, and it could just prove to be a damaging and costly diversion for them.
I don’t follow RI on Youtube, so I’m not in a position to judge their motives or competence. All I would say is that I agree with you and with them that this is a real issue, and with them that it clearly has some significance, and I take the view that the situation in which it cannot be openly discussed is therefore a serious problem in itself. So more power to their elbows in seeking to confront it, and to drag it out where the disinfectant of sunlight can get at it.
I forgot about the non-Jewish Russophiles part.
There are tons of those.
As for merely neutral (by an objective standard, not the warped one that portrays him as a direct Russian agent/puppet) ones… well, Trump.
You still seem a touch over-sensitive (no, wait, is that going to upset you as well? Well I’m just not good enough at this SJW “avoid giving “offence” at all costs” stuff to think up a euphemistic way of putting it, I’m afraid.)
You implied you don’t share my general respect for Derbyshire, and I responded to the effect that in that case your taste in writers is obviously not the same as mine. No particular insult. Certainly no more so than your own comment implied about me – a disagreement over taste, that’s all, to which I responded in kind.
I suppose at least this time you didn’t jump straight to “Fuck off, cocksucker” as you did the other day in response to perfectly legitimate if admittedly robust religious disagreement, so I suppose that’s some improvement.
For example? Don’t forget about the prominent part.
I follow RI on Youtube. As supposedly pro-Russian and aimed at Westerners, it’s completely tone-deaf, imo. With advocates like these…
To the point, [hoof sounds intensify]
Great. I think I like this.
You don’t call my Momma deranged and I won’t call you cocksucker.
I am ignoring the implied connection of me with SJWs.
Damn, I’m getting good at this!
The more risque cuckservative types, that hang out in places like Breitbart, correctly point how liberals like to avoid mentioning the religion of the perpetrator of the latest terrorist incident. Why the liberals want to avoid mentioning the Muslims is obvious, the same logic applies to cuck sites such as Breitbart when it comes to jews. If you can get the cucks to realize that hiding the truth about the jews is no different to trying to cover up for the Muslims, you can break down the barriers for those brave enough to accept the truth. Since the jew is by far the biggest problem for white people, mentioning that to white people that want their race to survive is paramount.
One thing I like pointing out to people who want to argue the mystery of why Jews have been kicked out of so many polities thanks to an ‘irrational anti-antisemitism’ is that its objectively true they perceive themselves as historically oppressed by Europeans, and hence have a deep seated enmity against us. Whether their perception is accurate or not, we simply cannot tolerate a resentful, embittered minority undermining our civilization. It’s time to start taking our own side as a properly basic reflexive mental and emotional operation instead of worrying about life has been fair to these people.
Of course I didn’t “call your momma deranged”, you chose to use the pretence that I had as a pretext to fly off the handle when I pointed out that, as someone with a US evangelist background, you had “grown up heavily propagandised and under the influence (indirect at least) of deranged religious doctrines relating to jews in particular”.
lol USSR Andy LIKES what the Jews created in Russia.
Ecclestone though is an interesting character. Hardly your typical jewish magnate,
Maybe because he’s not Jewish?
although he was a notorious Labour Party donor in the Blair years when the government deliberately opened up the mass immigration floodgates
He gave more to the Tories. IIRC the notorious Labour Party donation was a one-off to get some favours related to F1.
Jews who truly believe that nonsense are probably a tiny fraction, most are well aware of their own nature and they are also fully aware of how many whites are easily suckered into their whole victim narrative. Their enmity is no different to their enmity to the Canaanites and the other people they exterminated in the bible, they see a people that are a challenge to their race and they will use every means possible to deal with that threat to them.
Good for Russia Insider. A brave and intellectually honest stand.
Ironically, I think I was banned there a long time ago because of a comment about Jewish russophobes.
Same reason I was banned from /r/Russia too – observing that comparing russophobia to anti-semitism may be counterproductive since it would basically validate it as something that has many objective reasons.
Anyway since I can’t comment at RI I will comment here on the reply by Gilbert Doctorow and the observation by Anatoly that if Latvians were as powerful and intelligent as Jews, then Jews will not stand out as much. While true, as you Russians say if grandma had a dick it would be grandpa.
However, the difference is that while Jews are not the only ethnicity that generally hates Russia, there is no taboo on noticing or commenting on these tendencies among Balts and Poles. This is why Bausman’s article is important. That and the fact that Jews have much more influence over world affairs than some Eastern European Butthurt Belters. Understanding that Jews have a bone to pick with Russia and just how heavily Jewish the media is will help people put things in proper context and dismiss their screeching more easily.
This is obviously a very bad miscalculation by RI.
You just need to ask yourself: is Julia Ioffe happy or annoyed by this article? Clearly, she will be very pleased.
Thanks, neutral, this is exactly what I am talking about.
I guess you’ve never read her Twitter account or her Wapo column. Since her husband’s downfall she’s suggested that the staunchly anti-Russian Polish government might really be fake anti-Putinists. She’s hinted the same thing about John Schindler. That’s pretty unhinged.
huh?
Her belief that the Russian government targeted her and stole her wallet is more than enough to see she is unhinged. I don’t know if Russia has political humour shows, but portraying Putin in a cabinet meeting and having him ordering his spy chief to steal the wallet of Applebaum would be a pretty funny skit to do.
Thanks. No, the only thing that I have read by her was Red Famine and I was impressed.
I have found some of her articles and will read some. I just read one about the Polish neo-Nazis on parade and her concerns about that. I am going to look to see if she wrote one on the Ukrainian neo-Nazis.
That would certainly account for it. But it leaves Tyrion 2’s original comment with no plausible rationale I can see except perhaps some foolish attempt at counterfactual sarcasm trolling.
I recall vaguely a fuss about tobacco advertising but without examining the Wikipedia article at more length to refresh my memory it doesn’t go beyond that.
Who makes use of deranged religious doctrines if not deranged individuals?
That seems a bit questionable to me though, I doubt the issues of “humanitarian” interventionism (Power) and US nationalism (Haley) – which both aim at some form of permanent American hegemony over the entire globe – can just be reduced to Jewish influence. I also don’t see any evidence that Obama fundamentally disagreed with Power, or that Trump isn’t behind what Haley’s doing at the UN. These people aren’t just puppets of influential Jews, they’re quite horrible in their own right.
John Oliver isn’t Jewish AFAIK (and wikipedia agrees). It was sloppy of them to get that wrong.
Apparently, his parents are from Liverpool and he looks a bit like Ian Broudie of the Lightning Seeds (who is Jewish).
But you would have thought they had enough ammo not to muddy the waters.
There are plenty of deranged religious doctrines in the world, and most of the people who are associated with them by being members of communities with that religious affiliation are not themselves deranged, but rather merely misled.
But you knew and know this, of course. You simply chose to misuse my comment as an excuse to throw the toys out of the pram.
The two go together so much that I cannot really see the difference, to be a willing puppet to the international jew you need to be a horrible person to start off with.
not themselves deranged, but rather merely misled.
So, she wasn’t deranged but stupid.
You simply chose to misuse my comment as an excuse to throw the toys out of the pram.
Ignoring this,
MF.No, at least among Hungarian Jews (the only ones I have some personal experience with), it’s quite common to believe in their permanent victimization by an irrationally hostile, dumb and brutish gentile crowd, often manipulated into this irrational Jew-hatred by evil politicians like Orbán or Hitler.
That’s why the issue is excess influence, not control.
Jewish influence is one particularly powerful lobby in the US (as numerous former American politicians -FDR, Truman, Nixon etc – at the highest levels used to regularly affirm, back when it was still reasonable safe to do so even in private), so it pushes attitudes and policies in the direction it prefers. However it mostly can’t make really big things (bigger, say, than just another multi-billion dollar subsidy for Israel) happen alone, even with its Christian evangelist collaborators, but rather it allies with lobbies pushing in the same direction, in areas of particular importance to it, such as with the “military industrial” lobbies on US interventionism, or the political correctness and big business lobbies on issues such as immigration.
That doesn’t mean, though, that it isn’t a key driver of opinion in particular directions (eg anti-Russian).
Power desperately wanted Assad overthrown, but Obama ultimately found an excuse to bottle it. Many of the policies the Haley wing of the mainstream RINO party pushes are diametrically opposed to many of the “America First” and Russia-sensible posturings Trump made when he was seeking election and which seemed at the time to come from the heart. Granted both Obama and Trump (propagandised victims like most other Americans of the lobby-dominated media) undoubtedly shared many of the views of the interventionist lobbies in any event, but nevertheless it seems pretty clear that they were also pushed towards policies they themselves probably would not have initiated in the absence of the “influence” of the jewish and other lobbies pushing and manipulating for military confrontation and aggression.
Looks like you’re still childishly looking for excuses to be “offended”. Perhaps you could declare me “iffenist”, or an “anti-iffenite”.
What are you expecting, a pat on the back?
Oh man. As Jew I don’t like to see these types of articles but I do agree that we can’t have these taboos. If discussion of Jews/race/anything else un-PC is prohibited, you cede the entire conversation to the Philip Giraldi’s of the world.
I do think some things need to be clarified, however:
American Jewry is fast approaching extinction. If you don’t like American Jews, you are in luck because 90% of the powerful American Jews are in their 60’s and will either be dead or in nursing homes in 20 years. I for one, cannot wait, but I suspect that a lot of anti semites will miss them because they are such good boogy-men. The only Jews that will still be in America in 20 years from now will be ultra orthodox and religious Jews. Now you may not like them either, but they simply aren’t Russophobic.
Anybody who thinks that American Jews are the ones behind this anti Russian hysteria are either intellectually dishonest ::cough:: Steve Sailer ::cough:: or just doesn’t understand how broad this Russia hysteria really is and what motivates it. If anybody is interested I’m willing to talk more about this but I kinda doubt anybody is.
For Anatoly’s theory that Jewish women are more anti Russia because their sexual market value in Russia is non existent whereas Jewish men can get hot Russian women:
I don’t dispute that powerful American Jews operating behind the scenes were the driving force behind the 1st Iraq war and that the war would not have happened without them. But the fact of the matter is that most American Jews opposed the war and Jews were extremely prominent in the anti war movement. It was American whites who were gung ho about it initially. It’s intellectually dishonest to not acknowledge this.
Jared Kushner is Jewish and wants better relations with Russia. Sheldon Adeleson is the 2nd biggest Republican donor and he is neutral on the topic. Netanyahu supports Trump who is the most pro Russian President probably ever, so it isn’t like there is some united international Jewish conspiracy against Russia. A lot of very powerful Jews are neutral towards Russia whereas the anti Russian Jews have loud voices but little actual power, or at least less power than they are given credit for.
Can you link to some A. Applebaum “unhinged” stuff?
Never mind.
I just read her article where she identifies the neo-Bolsheviks, Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen.
There’re many more pro-Russian Jews than is normally thought. Understand that the establishment likes of JRL, The NYT and WaPo don’t present all of the prime intelligent commentary on the subject at hand.
Some examples of which there’re more:
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/12/countering-anti-russian-propaganda.html
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/09/21/getting-russia-wrong-again.html
Some direct replies to the Russia-Insider article in question:
Excerpt –
“Zionists? Really? I’ve never heard anyone describe themselves this way, or even other people describe them – ‘Have you meet Max?, he’s an enthusiastic Zionist!'”
Over the years, I’ve heard my share of Jews and some non-Jews refer to themselves as being Zionist – a term which can mean different things as that movement has left and right leaning slants.
Excerpt –
“This all reverberates to this day. The virulent and entrenched anti-semitism in today’s Ukraine is a direct heir of this White Russian view. This is because the Nazis had long-standing subversive programs implemented by their White Russian allies inside Ukraine and the Baltics, which were heavily German in ethnicity.”
“White Russian” refers to the ant-Bolshevik armed opposition which fought during the Russian Civil War. They didn’t initiate the pogroms of that era in Ukraine. Forces loyal to the Ukrainian nationalist leader Symon Petliura did. The Whites opposed Petliura and vice versa.
In exile, the key White leaders Anton Denikin and Peter Wrangel didn’t have anti-Jewish agendas. During the Russia Civil War, the White movement included some overtly anti-Jewish individuals, which didn’t include Denikin and Wrangel. The matter of Denikin and Jewry is discussed at length in this book:
https://www.google.com/search?ei=khBdWtGyDebi_Qb5_CM&q=Lehovich+white+against+red&oq=Lehovich+white+against+red&gs_l=psy-ab.12…237837.252949.0.254556.28.28.0.0.0.0.190.2191.26j2.28.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.14.1107…0j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i10i46k1j46i10k1j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i5i10i30k1j0i13k1j0i13i30k1j0i13i5i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.0.1h-xL6GfufI
BTW, the Bolshes had some anti-Jewish elements as well.
Excerpt –
“Obviously, this discussion should be done without any hatred or anger to Jews as a whole. The Jews who are causing the trouble – the one at the pinnacles of political and media power, are a small group indeed. Anyone who has grown up with and knows Jews well, as I have, knows that they are like people everywhere – basically decent, and this has been my overwhelming personal experience. It is their elite institutions that for some reason are clearly malevolent, and this demands public examination, not least by Jews themselves.
What I am calling for is criticizing the elites who have given their nation a very bad name, and figuring out why this pattern repeats itself throughout history.”
Basic agreement here.
Excerpt –
“Discussion of the Jewish problem (and ‘problem’ is the right word here) is obviously not going to be the focus of Russia Insider – we try to be primarily about Russia, but I am willing to give space to this issue, and not just as it relates to Russia.”
As noted at the top of this message and repeated again: there’s much more to this matter, which includes the number of Jews with a pro-Russian perspective, Russians with a pro-Jewish perspective, as well as those with Jewish and Russian Orthodox Christian roots. RI should be less like JRL and run pieces like the following which (dare I say) are more informative than a good deal of material favored by the establishment likes of JRL.
I have heard this so many times, and I am not buying it. The Israeli religious population is exploding, so much so that if the current rates continue there will be over 200 million jews (call this the second most important graph in the world). Since the secular international jew type all ultimately are derived from the more orthodox religious type (as there will always be those that leave the more strict path), there will be a near inexhaustible supply to replenish the secular American jew. I also must point out this endless jewish population growth is funded primarily by whites.
Now compare this to the white race, by 2100 with mass migration, mass miscegenation and low fertility rates, who is facing the real extinction here?
Hey Greasy,
This is an interesting comment. It does kind of reflect market forces at play to a certain degree – sometimes, that which is rare is that which is valued.
For instance, my Swedish mother in law once told me when we were talking about her childhood in Sweden, when she was a little girl she thought this one little girl in her class was the most beautiful girl she had ever seen. The girl had brown hair and brown eyes whereas all the other kids had blonde hair and blue/green eyes. Blonde hair and blue/green eyes had simply lost value in her eyes because everyone had it so there was nothing special about it at all in her locale.
Peace.
Well someone did record Applebaum’s husband in a restaurant and released a tape of him being rude about he Americans (who I had always assumed he worked for). He lost his job as Marshal of the Sejm (parliament).
I’d have thought she was right it was the Russians. Quite right too, he was an American placeman in Polish politics.
That seems plausible, I mostly agree; I just wouldn’t regard interventionist Americans as poor, brainwashed victims without any responsibility of their own, they do have responsibility for the flawed policies they’re supporting, it’s not impossible to question the narratives pushed by mainstream media.
I am interested, would you explain?
In order to understand Russophobia in the contemporary US, there needs to be a recognition that the Russophobia that existed prior to Trump’s election is of a completely different character than the kind that exists now.
American’s fundamentally do not like or trust Russia. That has always been the case. But for the most part Americans also haven’t really thought much about Russia one way or the other since the end of the Cold War.
From the end of the Cold War until November of 2016, true Russophobia, as opposed to just a general mistrust, was a fringe phenomena among the US population while being pretty big among the US elites and political class. Furthermore, it was actually bigger among the the right wing faction of the ruling uniparty than among those on the Left. There were anti Russian journalists but they while they had a platform, they had no influence.
In the 2012 election, Romney made being anti Russia a centerpiece of his campaign and he was mocked not just by Obama but by the media to. So those Jewish (and they really always were Jewish) Russophobes in the media were isolated and obviously were having no influence, at least with the general public. Then in Obama’s 2nd term came Pussy Riot, the gay stuff and Ukraine/Crimea. But again, while we started seeing more anti Russia stuff in the US media, it was hardly a deluge and Russia remained a distant afterthought for the overwhelming majority of Americans, and even the media wasn’t too invested.
Then came Trump’s election and Obama with the help of various Deep State hacks cooking up this “Russia stole the election” thing to undermine Trump. Obama is not Jewish. Comey is not Jewish. Hillary is not Jewish. Mueller is not Jewish. Furthermore, this anti Russia campaign was never meant to target Russia but rather to target Trump.
But it took on a life of it’s own. The election of Trump caused a huge chunk of the American public to literally lose their minds. For the first time since the Cold War a huge chunk of the American public, as opposed to merely the American elites, are actually interested in Russia and even afraid of it. You can visit left wing American message boards and the posters there are legitimately afraid that “Russia” is going to steal the 2018 midterm elections for the Republicans and then do it again for the Presidential election in 2020. They really believe this stuff.
This widespread hysteria is totally new, it simply did not exist before Trump and anyone who says otherwise is lying. Futhermore, it is NOT Jews who are driving it, it is an organic phenomena among the entire white segment (the non whites don’t care) of the Democratic base, with Left wing Jews (Glenn Greenwald, for example) often acting as the voice of reason that the Russia panic is overblown than as fanners of the the flames. Those liberal Jews who are in fact fanning the flames were the same ones who promoted better relations with Russia when Obama/Hillary wanted that and the liberal non Jewish writers in the media are every bit as unhinged over the Russia stuff as the Jewish ones are.
Unfortunately on the Right there are a lot of people :: cough:: Steve Sailer::cough:: who want to use this Russia madness as an excuse to attack the Jews, but it’s bullshit. Attacking American Jews for supporting Israel is legit because 99% of American Jews do in fact support Israel. Attacking American Jews for getting America into the Iraq War is also legit because it was influential American Jews who made it happen. But blaming America Jews for the anti Russia stuff, which really is just aimed at Trump, not at Russia anyway, is just a typical right wing smear job on the Jews.
Well, Israel itself has always kept a cautious neutralism regarding Russia, but I guess you’re talking about the diaspora and Ashkenazim specifically.
Actually, I assumed you were Jewish for years.
A lot of what you write seems quite convincing to me and fits with the impressions I get from my (admittedly limited) reading of US media. Russophobic US Jews seem to be mostly relatively recent immigrants from the ex-USSR (from the 1970s onwards, people like that horrible Max Boot or Cathy Young), so your assessment seems correct that this particular issue is of limited concern to most American Jews.
Hysteria about foreign subversion seems to be a recurrent phenomenon in US history (e.g. Germans in WW1, Red scare Nr.1, hysteria about Nazis/Japanese, Red scare Nr.2) for some reason…but yes, it’s very striking how utterly insane American liberals are over this whole “Russia stole the election” nonsense, how quickly it became an article of faith for them, despite the lack of any real evidence for it. Has confirmed me in my view that in their own way they’re just as parochial assholes (and as dangerous to the rest of the world) as most Republicans.
Interestingly enough, Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu actually appears to have relatively good ties with Russia.
Also, I wonder if historical Russian and Soviet oppression of the Jews (such as with the Pale of Settlement in the days of the Russian Empire) has something to do with the allegedly disproportionate amount of Jewish Russophobes.
As for Cathy Young, I admire her for speaking out about men’s rights–up to the point that she criticizes feminists who ignore men’s rights and men’s issues and concerns (such as forced child support payments).
“Male Jews nowadays have it good in Russia, with many Slavic girls attracted to their wealth, intelligence and impeccable charm (if not their looks).”
Do these sluts know they’re giving themselves to the descendants of the bolsheviks who murdered their grandparents?
“Ding dong the witch is dead”…Anatoly, I’m surprised you didn’t make any mention of the death of the transgender scumbag, lowlife mother of the russophobic scumbag Miriam elder…Ela Breigen…possibly the only mother of a “journalist” in the blogosphere to actually whine in public about an article exposing their POS child (I’m talking Braigen screeching on your blog a few years ago,Anatoly) .
Most jews are normal but the braindead moron writings and lies of Elder must surely be traced back to her batshit crazy dickhead mother….currently rotting somewhere in hell at the moment…talentless liberast soviet emigree who then spent the rest of her waster life making up lies and moaning at Russia
I call this the “Religious Nutter Baby Factory” model. The Religious Nutters are not only tolerated but subsidized by the secular state. They can thus afford to be unproductive, specializing as breeders (de facto, if not in intent). Why else would a secular state subsidize them so much? But because of the strictures of Religious Nutter life, many Religious Nutters quit the religion and become secular. The net result is the minority of Religious Nutters doesn’t grow as fast as their birthrate suggests, while providing a steady supply of new secularist individuals. A good analogy in biology are stem cells, which possess astonishing replication ability and whose main function is to produce undifferentiated new cells, while remaining unchanged themselves. When an organism runs out of stem cells, it declines and eventually dies.
The European peoples’ problem is that they lack Religious Nutter Baby Factories. They have no breeders, hence they are declining. There is no way around this. In developed countries, the only ones willing and able to breed above replacement level are Religious Nutters.
Are you kidding? That’s shit turns them on.
For the Religious Zionists this is true, but it is not true for the Haredim. The Haredim have a 90%+ retention rate and for every member they lose they peel off a secular or Religious Zionist.
After the Haredim take over the secular will simply be exterminated so you don’t have to worry about them invading your countries. Everybody wins!
What percentage of the population were the Haredim in 1990, and what are they now?
Per Wikipedia, Maddow says her family is “very, very Catholic”. Her paternal grandfather was Jewish (from Lithuania/Ukraine), so she’s 25% Jewish ethnically.
Right now they are about 10% of Israeli Jews. In 1990 I believe they were nearly 5% but that number got knocked down thanks to 1 million immigrants from Russia so the growth is more impressive then it seems. The secular can’t pull that trick twice.
This sounds reasonable for within Russia, but how does it apply to, say, Julia Ioffe, who left Russia when she was 7 and is easy on the eyes?
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DI_v6tBdhVM/UjUbcUco78I/AAAAAAAAbfI/-M06K2GyVKY/s640/julia.jpg
Sounds about right. According to wikipedia:
While the ultra-Orthodox, or Haredim, represented only 5% of Israel’s population in 1990,[50] they are expected to represent more than one-fifth of Israel’s Jewish population by 2028.
It’s more of a generational thing. Russian-speaking Jews who immigrated to the United States or Israel in the 1970s-1990s, dislike Russia in the sense of seeing it as an irredeemable ‘shithole’. They also don’t particularly care about it – and their immigration took the form of total conversion to flag-waving, pro-Americanism. This demographic are probably strongest Trump supporters you can find in the United States. Interest in Russian politics is probably less than of the average American, other than viewing it as a shithole they were gladly no wasting their whole life in.
Those who left later have a different view – especially in the 2000s, as they experienced the economic and social recovery, and grew up in more ideological neutral times. You’ll generally find them not particularly opinionated about it one way or another. Those who come from rich parents, usually have a more rosy view than those from normal background.
By the way in Israel, there’s marauding groups of stupid patriots of both Russia and Ukraine conflict around the place.
Also people toeing exactly the Kremlin line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtlCCoNkwfQ
Dave Pinsen – Some of the most beautiful women I’ve seen so far are Jewish. Also mixed nationality ones can sometimes be very beautiful even when their parents were very ugly.
Overall, it’s probably the better situation for Jews that the opposite view is promoted, and that the culture elevates the geeky siblings in any family as the dominant side of the community. Ideally the geeks become more self-confident than in other cultures, and the women do not become as jealous of better looking peers or siblings. At the same time, you’re less likely to get raped or exploited.
I’ve seen on the street in Israel, some young Haredi (ultra-orthodox) women who could surely have been models on a billboard if they lived in a secular culture or the West, but instead will probably spend their life in a tiny apartment with 9 children. If nothing else this traditional situation is better for the husband, than in a culture that markets women for their looks. The Muslims seem to understand this as well.
Historically, Jews have a lot of primitive superstitions about the evil eye and how they shouldn’t attract attention to themselves, particularly from other nationalities. I feel there is now some kind of loss of survival instincts occurring with the Jews, and we already see this when Woody Allen type geeky side of community started to promote themselves as attention-seeking actors, when in another life they would have become professions like accountants or rabbis.
But what about fervently russophoilic jews we have in Russian media? Soloviev, Satanovsky, Kedmi? I think jews overrepresented in both camps, which is OK, I don’t see any conspiracy here. And, after all, our jews are better than theirs anyway.
This is consistent with my biased sample, as I said above.
This reminds me of Frederic Barbarossa (?) who told crusaders transiting through his lands that they should beat up their own Jews, not his.
Even a Jewish friend in Moscow suffering from Putin derangement syndrome has declared that right now is the best time for Jews in the history of Russia. Ultimately, it seems to me that Jews and Gentiles find themselves in a kind of iterated prisoners dilemma (“tit for tat”) in which the sins of one against the other lead to reciprocation. However, the iterated prisoners dilemma can in principle be resolved by taking small risks and slowly building up trust. Putin seems to understand this.
I suspect the script is bad enough to escape critical attention and “Actually, That Thing Everyone Likes is Racist” takes
The big difference is twofold………
russophiliac jews don’t see their Judaism as related to their russophilia and love of their homeland….but the russophobic jews view their jewishness as a central tenant of their russophobia.
The second difference is that Solovyov,Satanovsky,Stephen Cohen are extremely clever, logical,honest and talented people ……..Elder,Ioffe,Venediktov,Albats,Gessen,Roth,Lucas,Judah,Yaffa et cetera are talentless braindead fuckwits with big issues in their head and low morals who implausibly have high ranking media posts
I also think these scum have an inferiority complex towards Russia and view the comparatively very mild pogroms as equal to the Holocaust ( or maybe even worse as they haven’t been able to get “revenge” for the Pogroms)
This reminds me of Frederic Barbarossa (?) who told crusaders transiting through his lands that they should beat up their own Jews, not his.
LOL
Good points, adding that Charles Bausman let himself open to some legit shots at him, which could’ve been prevented with a better overall presentation on his part. That said, he comes across better than the blowhard lout John Podhoretz, who said that it’s noxious to be a Russophile Jew.
A somewhat tangential matter concerns the JRL court appointed Russia friendly syndrome, which is an ongoing quality control issue.
You make a fair point and you make it very well.
I do think however that it is slightly off the mark in relation to the RI article itself. You are talking about the particular popular Russophobic hysteria that has, indeed, gripped ordinary Americans to an unprecedented degree, basically as a form of Trump Derangement Syndrome, since 2016. The RI piece, as I read it, is talking more specifically about elite views and their influence on actual policy in the US, and over a much longer period than just the past year or two.
Much of US elite opinion, and certainly the actual policies adopted, has been irrationally Russophobic for decades, certainly to include the treatment of Russia in the aftermath of the Soviet collapse. I think there’s little doubt that the irrational hostility of many prominent jewish elite voices has contributed to this, which is the point RI seems to be mainly making. Well, that and the pressing need to blow away the noxious taboo that suppresses open and honest discussion of all issues relating to jewish influence.
You suggest that Sailer wants excuses to attack jews, but that’s not my impression of his views on the topic. Seem to me he’s more inclined towards the faction on the right that thinks jews would make great allies and just need to be wooed away from their unfortunate leftist and neocon inclinations.
He does often “notice” uncomfortable facts that jewish lobbies would much prefer were not noticed, but “noticing” things like that is his general modus operandi and he probably applies it to most groups at various times.
Deranged, irrational, noxious, etc.
Hmm.
There seems to be a pattern; I just can’t seem to make it out.
Those grievances are largely imaginary. It is ironic that in most European countries the Jews have been expelled several times, but USSR’s fault was to not let them leave at will
There were indeed quotas in the top Russian schools, but they were still above the percentage of the total population, and Jews were as usual over-represented in arts, science, and the industry leadership.
Bernie Ecclestone isn’t jewish.
Lucas is very obviously an agent of influence, probably Harding also.
Watched the first episode of McMafia the other day. Very good, and shocked to see the honest portrayal of the dominant role of post Soviet Jews and Israelis in organised crime. Godman seems primarily based on Berezovsky.
https://www2.fbi.gov/wanted/alert/fisherman_il.htm
the thing to remember about the media is they’re all whores who lie for money and i imagine if they were being paid to be Russophile they would be – so the key question is what groups are paying them to incite WW3?
1) Russia-China have been quietly building up an alternative to the western banking mafia’s stranglehold on world finance which threatens the banking mafia.
2) Putin has been blocking neocon attempts to start Iraq 2.0 in Syria.
3) possible banking mafia reason #2 is to provide an external distraction from the looming economic disaster caused by the unfixed fallout from the 2008 crash (this would also tie in with the media’s incitement to internal racial conflict e.g. BLM)
And I suppose Russian men are too busy getting drunk and high to care that their women are being defiled.
Because there is no conspiracy.
The media in countries that do not have Jews – like Spain and Poland, seems to me even more Russophobic than the United State media, which does have Jews. If you want to verify, just type ‘Putin’ into the Elpais.com website and try to practice your Spanish.
Russophobia is a common feature of the media in Western countries, regardless if those countries have over-representation of Jewish journalists (e.g. America), or not (e.g. Spain, Germany, Poland, Sweden, etc).
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As for the subject of Russophobia in general. It distorts most coverage in the West, so articles become quite inaccurate – but not more than anti-Americanism distorts most coverage of America in the local media.
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The Americans that enjoy Russian Insider and Russia Beyond websites, are the same kind of people who if they were Russians would be reading Radio Svoboda website. The people who complain about Russophobia in America, are the same people in reverse of those who complain about anti-Americanism in Russia.
In both cases, these are actually good things. And both cases, of course, this good natural agenda (to see both points of view) and often good content, is badly served by websites with their own editorial agenda. In the Russian Insider, moving into incitement for some reason, which will undermine the useful content they had sometimes posted.
Unz website is somewhat different – as it just seems some kind of free-for-all, with a random mix of both high and low (sometimes very low) quality content. But thankfully, no editorial agenda.
The media in countries that do not have Jews – like Spain and Poland, seems to me even more Russophobic than the United State media, which does have Jews.
What? There are as many as 200,000 jews living in Poland according to the organization Jewish Renewal in Poland. Spain has around 50,000 of them.
Sailer has explicitly said that the current Russia hysteria is driven by Jewish paranoia. He does this kind of shit all the time.
I regard Sailer as an American hero, but the guy is a Jew baiting faggot. I have no problem with Steve’s commentors who just come out and bash the Jews, but the way that Steve just passive aggressively “notices” noxious Jews with a wink to his commentors to take it from there is nauseatingly cowardly. Fuck Steve Sailer.
He goes way beyond noticing the Jewish lobby. His favorite tactic to is to “notice” some hack, nobody, obviously mentally unhinged American Jewish writer and just post some particularly pathetic self description that the writer has made of their own Jewishness. He does this like 2x a week. The guy is an obsessed sperg. And that’s not even getting into the way he went full Der Sturmer during the Weinstein thing before non-Jews started getting busted too.
I basically don’t even read Sailer anymore because I know that whatever the headline is about I know that the article will end up being about the Jews, and I’m already familiar with his thoughts on that issue and don’t need the refresher.
I think he’s bitter that Trump has mainstreamed so many of the ideas that Steve used to be the lone champion of and he’s taking it out on the Jews. Because let’s face it, with Trump in office Steve just isn’t relevant anymore.
…
As for the US elites being anti Russia because of the Jews, I dunno, I guess that’s possible. The thing is though that Bibi and Adelson both seem to be neutral towards Russia. And Russia is a historic adversary of the US so even if the Jews and Israel disappeared tomorrow I still think the US elites would still be Russophobic. There is in fact a long tradition of western Russophobia that predates the State of Israel or the pogroms.
You know, the thing is that it really comes down to interpretation. With the American elites, there is an inner party and outer party. The Jews are massively over represented among the outer party but are small beans in the inner party. So who is running the show? If you think it is the inner party running things while acknowledging that the outer party is still influential, and that’s what I think, then Jewish influence really isn’t that significant. If you think that it is the outer party who runs things and that the inner party are just puppets, then yeah it is all because of the Jews. But I don’t believe that.
So a little over one in a thousand people in the population, and what proportion of people writing about Russia in El Pais (surely 0%).
https://elpais.com/buscador/
Type Putin in there and practice your Spanish.
The whole conspiracy theory strikes me as nonsense.
I have personally interacted on social-media with a lot of Russian-speaking Jews that live in the US and who describe Russia as a ‘total shit hole’ – this demographic also laugh at the notion that a shithole is capable of having any important influence on world affairs, and perceive America’s recent view towards the country’s alleged election interference as kind of paranoid conspiracy.
On the geopolitical basis.
Israel and even pre-state Israel historically had a lot of pro-Russia sentiment, which persisted in some quarters even after the Iron Curtain was raised, and the Soviet Union became an enemy of Israel.
Today this kind of balancing act exists – where Israel is an extension of America, but it tries to remain neutral towards Russia, Ukraine, China, India, etc.
The current Kremlin takes the same position, and tries to remain neutral on topics like the conflict between Israel and Iran (even if Israel is perceived as an extension of the US, it tries a little to wean it away).
In Israel, there are thousands of self-identifying Russian-Israelis, just as there are Ukrainian-Israelis, French-Israelis, American-Israelis, etc.
There is also a kind of ‘turf-war’ between patriots of both sides in the Ukraine-Russia conflict.
With various incidents:
http://www.forumdaily.com/israel-svastila-car-ukraine/
Ukrainian patriots have been known to descend to violence (the comments on here will give you cancer).
http://nashe.orbita.co.il/blogs/events/69932
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But the overall situation is without hatred on a national basis. As this girl (of mixed Russian and Jewish nationality) explains, Israelis are generally very laidback and relaxed about nationality, without Russophobia and so on. (Judaism itself is neutral in its position towards all non-Jewish nationalities and views them as the same).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FpyfVnnd2o
On the other hand, Mikhail Prokhorov would actually count as being totally Jewish (he also has more direct ties in Israel – coming to the country very often – than at least Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky).
What exactly would be the inner party in the US today?
Obama, Hillary, Mueller, Comey, Schumer, Pelosi, the Koch brothers, Romney.
You can basically think of the inner party as the political face of the Deep State. The media part of the Deep State would be more outer party.
There is admittedly some overlap between these groups, but sometimes where a person stands is clear: there is no question that Obama is part of the inner party and that some Portnoy’s Complaint style, nobody Jewish writer for the NYT is part of the Outer Party.
Guys like the now disgraced Weinstein are harder to pigeon hole. They are sort of inner party and outer party at the same time.
The majority of the anti Russian, Jewish writers on social media, ironically, are so insignificant that they don’t even classify as part of the outer party.
I regard Sailer as an American hero, but the guy is a Jew baiting faggot.
Steve Sailer is not a Jew-hater.
If he hasn’t played a decent round of golf in a while and gets to thinking about golf courses, he might do a little too much noticing, but that is the extent of it.
That’s a bunch of politicians, two plutocratic lobbyists and some people from security services…not enough for a “party” (yes, I understand, these are supposed to be prominent examples…but for showing there’s a somewhat coherent “party” you’d have to demonstrate networks, institutional and personal links etc.).
Have to admit I’m not even sure the whole concept of “Deep state” is valid…it’s thrown around as a slogan, but mostly left vague how it’s supposed to work, what exactly it is etc. There certainly exists an extremely privileged overclass in the US that is full of contempt for their countrymen and pushes policies for its own benefit (and to the detriment of most others), but that’s not quite the same thing as a “Deep state”.
Girl in the vid: 5/10. Would not bang.
So a little over one in a thousand people in the population, and what proportion of people writing about Russia in El Pais (surely 0%).
Implying that driven minorities can’t control indolent majorities. Implying that’s not what jews do in all host countries. Come on. What’s the proportion of jews to Americans, or jews to English, or jews to Russians?
Small parasites are very much capable of bringing down large hosts.
By the way, people like Boris Berezovsky and Mikhail Khodorkovsky are in the same position as the girl above, as their maternal grandmother was also not Jewish. And yet, paradoxically they are viewed by conspiracy theorists as the part of the Jewish conspiracy.
jews with only one jew grandparent regard themselves as jews, let alone three jew grandparents. As far as I’m concerned, anyone with jew blood is a jew.
I’ve noticed that.
The Jewish Bonnier family owns much of Swedish media. It’s a 4 billion usd corporation. Bonnier media is totally pro muslim immigration. Bonnier media refuses to publish crime by immigrants against Swedes. Bonnier media is always in hysterics about evil Swede neo nazis not welcoming Muslims.
Bonnier media is the mouth piece of the Jewish media Muslim immigrant war against the native Swedes.
In Russia, a man with one jew grandparent, in most cases, will consider themselves Russian (at least my “anecdotal experience” leads to this conclusion).
But the oligarch with the one jew grandparent,it is quite another thing (which is understandable – for example, being a Jew, it is easier to find shelter abroad from justice).
Yes for non-Jews, they are Jews. But for Jews, they are non-Jews. That is the complicated situation for ‘paternal Jews’.
From their own perspective, of course they will have (or have had in Berezovsky’s case) some degree of Jewish identity. I think you can find quotes of them calling themselves Jews, and Berezovsky had taken Israeli citizenship for a time.
But from the Jewish conspiracy theory viewpoint (the idea they are part of a Jewish conspiracy), it doesn’t make any sense, as Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky are not considered Jews by the Jewish community itself. They could get citizenship in Israel, but they would not be able to have a Jewish wedding in Israel, or burial in a Jewish cemetery. For the Jewish religion, they do not have ‘Jewish souls’, whereas someone like Mikhail Prokhorov – it’s a Jew born with a ‘Jewish soul’.
Wow – had no clue about this. Definitely explains certain patterns.
Peace.
“Yes for non-Jews, they are Jews. But for Jews, they are non-Jews. That is the complicated situation for ‘paternal Jews’. ”
Nonsense. I have literally never met a “paternal jew” who didn’t consider himself/herself completely jewish, nor have I ever met a jew who didn’t consider paternal jews as full jews. Jews only invoke matrilineal descent when they’re trying to deflect criticism from a paternal jew.
“But from the Jewish conspiracy theory viewpoint (the idea they are part of a Jewish conspiracy), it doesn’t make any sense, as Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky are not considered Jews by the Jewish community itself.”
Yes they are. They are routinely praised by diaspora jews who screech about the non-existent “anti-semitism” of Putin’s government.
” They could get citizenship in Israel, but they would not be able to have a Jewish wedding in Israel, or burial in a Jewish cemetery.”
I don’t believe a word of this.
“For the Jewish religion, they do not have ‘Jewish souls’, whereas someone like Mikhail Prokhorov – it’s a Jew born with a ‘Jewish soul’.”
jewishness- that is jewish identity and the particular behaviors it’s associated with- is racial, tribal, and psychological in origin, not religious. The religion of “judaism” is a set of rationalizations for jewish behavior, and jewish behavior is rooted in blood.
Look, just for future reference, I know how you people dissimulate and deceive, so you’re going to have to up your game with me.
That’s too simple. Secular Jews, for example, often consider these half-Jews Jewish. Or they consider them the most accurate description: half-Jewish. The self-description of half-Jews is often, surprisingly, half-Jewish, but they often identify more strongly with Israel than their own countries. For example strongly anti-nationalists for their respective countries, but fully supporting Israel. For example, Orbán is a horrible racist, but the Palestinians fully deserved their fate, and weren’t even ethnically cleansed, they left because their deranged leaders told them so. A half-Jew told me so much. But on another occasion he complained about the horrible anti-Gypsy racism of Hungarians.
But is it not a straw man? It’s quite logical that people have prejudices about those others who were traditionally considered enemies or hateful by their ancestors. It’s also quite logical that people will to an extent identify with their people, even if it’s only partial ancestry.
Just a personal example. My maternal grandmother was half Russian, her father, my great-grandfather, was a Hungarian POW in Siberia, and married a Russian girl, my great-grandmother. My grandma grew up speaking only Russian until she was fourteen, when in the early 1930s my great-grandfather returned to Hungary and brought his family with him. She learned Hungarian as a teenager, and usually considered herself Russian. My mom often said she was half-Russian, when actually she was only a quarter Russian. She never liked when my paternal grandma told stories of the Second World War – the stories usually involved Russian soldiers trying to rape her and her sister. (They were saved by Soviet officers quartered at the house next door.) So that is probably a reason why I was more Russophilic than 99% of Hungarians in the 1990s, and I’m probably still in the most Russophilic decile of Hungarians. (Though now there exist some extremely Russophilic Hungarians with no family connections to Russia, they are usually highly anti-American.)
Expecting Jews, including half-Jews or even quarter-Jews (remember, I’m one eighth Russian only) to be any different is unreasonable. To my knowledge, Russians (at least Siberian peasants) don’t really hate anyone (it’s a big country, no obnoxious neighbors in the vicinity), so I didn’t get anything else from my mom but Russophilia, but for example if that great-grandmother was Armenian and my mom was extremely anti-Turkish and so were I, then I guess it wouldn’t be unreasonable to suppose that I got this sentiment from my grandma and that it ultimately derived from the common sentiment of Armenians?
Diaspora people have a lot of reasons to dislike their neighbors. For one, actually liking their neighbors would make intermingling with them more likely and lead to assimilation. So those diaspora peoples who actually didn’t dislike their neighbors don’t exist anymore. Second, different ethnicities cohabiting usually leads to a lot of bad blood. Jewish history is full of episodes of pogroms and the likes. Jews also often behaved in a bad way towards their neighbors, but let’s be realistic – how likely it is that Jewish parents will talk about that? So, all in all, it’s quite likely that Jews will have a lot of bad historical memories (in a very one-sided history as told by their ancestors) and though it won’t be uniform (you will have Ron Unz and Israel Shamir etc.), it will have certain patterns.
“Deep state” is a sensational way to say that the agencies of the executive branch cannot be fully controlled by the president (there are plenty of historical examples of this, from Kennedy to Nixon, as well as the contemporary examples of Obama and Trump) and therefore are not even indirectly subject to democratic checks and balances. No doubt there are rivalries between and within these agencies, but presumably those with the most power know each other and cut deals. Indeed, there’s no secret group of ten powerful people who all collaborate on some grand nefarious plan. But neither is there convincing control of the government by Congress or the President.
Sensational, or just concise. What you wrote is what I mean when I say “deep state”, but it’s shorter than writing a paragraph. Perhaps 911 Truthers mean the “ten powerful guys collaborating on some grand nefarious plan” thing, but then they are wrong.
I’ve never doubted your good judgement. 🙂
That’s also pretty much the standard line among many fully gentile Israel supporters though (Palestinians are an invented identity, they deserved it, there was no ethnic cleansing, Jordan is the state where Palestinians should live etc.). Some of those people are anti-Muslims per se, but others are into all manner of “antiracism” in their own countries. These contradictions are never explained or justified though, since it’s taboo to point them out.
Yes, I agree, what you’ve described has undoubtedly been a problem for a long time.
My point was: what percentage of the following categories supports Israel like that?
A) fully Jewish
B) half-Jewish
C) one Jewish grandparent
D) fully gentile
I think it’s close to 100% (80%? 90%?) among A), then decreases monotonously until it’s pretty low among D). Another thing is that probably B) is closer to A) than to D), and even C) might, on average, resemble A) more than D) across a spectrum of questions (e.g. anti-racism for Europe but nationalism for Israel). In other words, Jewish identity is probably relatively strong compared to gentile national identities, partly because it’s more salient in countries where everyone is supposed to be a majority ethnic (even if not, like blacks are also “Germans” and you’re racist for questioning it), and partly because Jewish identity is encouraged both by society and by parents alike.
To clarify: I meant something like 80-95%.
At the risk of giving away more and more personal information for the imminent PC gulag, I’m from category C), and according to the poll discussed in a different post, I’m apparently 1/4 self-hating Jew. From my sample, though, Jewish identity in category B) is somewhat fickle. I know two brothers in in category C), one of which considers himself Jewish, the other not, due to different socialization experiences as young children. Also, I know people from category B) who consider themselves Jewish despite having been socialized as a Protestants.
Damn, and here I was thinking you were atheistic/agnostic because you’re into science. I’m feeling naive!
How many non-Jews really exist at UR, I wonder?
I usually like your comments I stumble upon, though.
I think that my samples might be somewhat distorted. There is always a self-selection, because those who don’t identify with Israel or “typical” Jewish topics will be less likely to even talk about his Jewish ancestry. So maybe I overestimate the strength of Jewish identity. Still I’m quite sure it’s stronger than, say, Hungarian identity. I remember a few times when someone criticized Hungary, and some dumb nationalist aggressively started some pointless debate. I also had similar experience when Israel was criticized by someone, and the similar sharp and aggressive rebuke he received from a Jewish nationalist. (And at least once he was actually just half-Jewish.) Since I know way more Hungarians than (Hungarian) Jews, I drew the conclusion that Jews are more nationalistic than Hungarians.
I also know a quarter-Jewish woman who still lights Hanukkah candles for her children, and relatively strongly identifies with Israel. Since I haven’t really met a quarter-Hungarian in Israel, my intuition is really rather an educated guess, not absolutely sure. These are just examples of what I based my opinions on.