There are so many problems with the propaganda campaign against Assad getting unrolled now.
(1) You can’t treat exposure to sarin with your bare hands without falling ill/dead yourself, as the White Helmets were apparently doing in the aftermath of the Idlib attack.
(2) As Syrian war reporter @Partisangirl noticed, some journalists were apparently discussing a chlorine sarin attack before it actually happened.
(3) It is eerily reminescent of the aftermath of the 2013 Gouta attacks, in which the Western media and neocon and neocon-in-all-but-name politicians and punditry parroted the official line that Assad’s troops were responsible even though consequent journalistic work by Sermour Hersh and MIT raised serious doubts over the veracity of that allegation.
(4) The “moderate rebels” have themselves resorted to poison gas on various occasions.
(5) Unlike in 2013, Assad is now winning. Why on Earth now, of all times, would he resort to poison gas – one of the few things he can do to that is capable of provoking a strong Western reaction – just to kill all of 75 civilians?
It just makes no sense.
So one can’t help but treat Nikky Haley’s melodramatic performance at the UN with skepticism. The idea that the poisoning was due to a bomb hitting a chemical weapons manufactory seems more plausible.
Trump’s initial non-interventionist rhetoric on assuming the Presidency was encouraging, as was his promotion of other anti-war figures such as Tulsi Gabbard. However, the latest response of the US administration, including Trump himself, is not giving any cause for optimism:
I will tell you that attack on children yesterday had a big impact on me, big impact. That was a horrible, horrible thing. And I’ve been watching it, and seeing it, and it doesn’t get any worse than that… And I will tell you it’s already happened, that my attitude toward Syria and Assad has changed very much.
To be sure, one might view this as a merely ritualistic expression of outrage, but also coming on as it does on the eve of Steve Bannon’s dismissal from the National Security Council… one can’t help but start having dark thoughts on whether the deep state might be triumphing after all.
On Trump – the less he intends to do, the more strongly he positions himself.
So one way to interpret his remarks is that he is occupying a position that fully takes advantage of anti-Assad sentiment, but with no intent to act on it at all.
So Trump the hard-headed America Firster morphs into weepy bleeding heart interventionist?
The Empire needs better writers.
I’ve been pretty solid in my Trump support, despite occasional “zradas” (defeats/betrayals).
This is the first time however that I am genuinely questioning his intentions and goodwill.
If Trump in the end does goes down the path of corporatist neocon warmongering, he will lose and the vision he outlined at his inauguration speech will die as well. Very sad!
Gee, I wonder who could be behind this offensively low-brow and loud theater performance to give a “casus belli” and a “reason for responsibility to protect”.
100% repeat of Obama’s “redline” performance. Maybe it will go through now, it depends on the levels of sellout.
The always-reliable yuropeans are onboard, same as with the Lybian “Ghadaffi is distributing Viagra to rape his own people” somewhat-liberating free-for-all. Clearly the cheques have arrived.
Meanwhile, the bombing of Yemen on behalf of the Saudis, which in a sane world would result in US military personnel and politicians getting acquainted with the wrong end of firing squads, is merrily ongoing.
Well, let’s see: Tillerson makes a statement that overthrowing Assad is no longer a priority. Neocons disagree. And within days this “chemical attack” happens, the biggest chemical attack in Syria – we are told – since 2013.
Coincidence? I don’t think so.
I think it’s possible that chemical attack did happen, and it was the CIA or its terrorist buddies that arranged to poison these children. Unlike Assad, these actually have a plausible motive – manipulating Trump and influencing his policy.
I have become disheartened.
Hillary was the end of America as we knew it. But Trump is far too much of an Empire First, not America First president at the moment.
Also, “White Helmets”
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/23/the-white-helmets-controversy/
So many possible heavies behind this deed and those who are accused the most are the least likely to be guilty.
A very tired and worn out script.
It’s WMD and false flag attacks all over again. How short is the public’s memory? I suppose Trump is caught in a pincer movement here, false flag or provocation carried out by the ‘deep state’ or parts of the so-called ‘intelligence community’ on the one hand, coordinated with the mass media on the other who publicize it and beat the drums demanding that something must be done, it’s a crisis, etc. They’re trying to force his hand. It’ll be interesting to see how he handles this. On the face of it, for a person who’s shown a healthy level of skepticism he’s coming across as a bit too credulous. The UN ambassador Haley is a really embarrassing idiot who is undermining the very person that gave her this wonderful platform for her to be a star of. People gave her adulating coverage in the past as an up-and-coming talent but has been revealed to be merely a blabbering airhead. The pool of talent for Trump to pick from is apparently quite thin so finding some good people is looking to shape up as a major challenge.
Anatoly:
Until now I had thought that no one could exceed Samantha Power’s putritude rating, but it looks like Nikky Haley will win the grand prize hands down.
As I thought at the time, and Ron Unz also noted here, Trump was either an utter moron or completely indifferent to actual policy to promote a facelesss POS like Mike Pence to VP.
I think it should be increasingly obvious that he’s a gauche blowhard who’s merely a weathervein for whomever advised him last.
Trump should watch out. He was voted in exactly because people were profoundly disgusted by the Obama/Clinton Libyan monstrosity, and because people wanted Washington to stop funding terrorists to topple the legitimate government of Syria.
Assad didn’t gas civilians. The very idea is moronic. He has won the war. Trump can use Assad as an ally in the fight against everybody’s common enemy ISIS. Or Trump can betray his electorate and ruin his presidency by doing something stupid in Syria.
The choice is his.
It’s a false flag attack. Just like before. Assad didn’t do it. But the victims died in earnest. The evil accrues to Imperial Washington.
If Trump thinks Assad did this he is a fool. Somebody needs to tell Trump the deplorables are drifting away.
Media is diverting attention to a lie when it should be digging deeper into Susan Rice’s behaviors .
They could lie again and again because no one was jailed for lying on Iraq,Iran nuclear activities and on Sarin gas attack of 2013 . Now one stone two birds- kill Assad and save Rice’s ass . NYT is the new neocon . MSNBC brought Max Boot today to finesse the lies .
This betrayal is for real and final. Stop projecting your wishful thinking on Trump. He never was the man many of us were imagining. This were just our projections. Projections of people who wanted to have some hope. The most important is that Bannon is out or on his way out. W/o Bannon there is nobody else. Just your usual dumb and vile republicans are all what is left plus some soft hearted libs in Ivanka faction. That’s all. It’s over!
Besides what a great opportunity for Trump. Just do the Syria and everything will be forgiven and forgotten. Including Susan Rice, OK? We will not have to impeach you and replace with Pence.
Not sure about this guy but he claimed 2 days ago:
Published on Apr 3, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pjEdHH0Jys
If so, the staged gas attack is just a part of a much bigger scheme that was planned months ago with Trump knowledge. No more talking about hat the Deep Sate is boxing Trump in. No, Trump is on it.
If there were 3 million parallel universes out there, then I guess maybe in one of them Assad would have been responsible for the chemical attack on the Syrian civilians, but even then I doubt it. For the sake of argument, let’s say he did it and as a result almost a hundred people died. So then I guess it’s justifiable to go in and kill thousands and thousands of civilians to punish Assad for killing less than a hundred of them.
When “dictator” like Assad kills people, he does it in an undemocratic way – with chemical weapons, which is inhumane. When the greatest democracy does it – it’s ok, because it’s for a just cause and with weapons approved by the Geneva Convention. And if at the end of the carnage awaits the prospect of democracy – then no price in civilian lives is too high. Something that Madeleine Albright would call a price worth paying.
When a democracy kills people – it doesn’t use chemical weapons, it uses bombs, bullets and rockets and that’s what really makes a difference. I think most people would find it very objectionable to be killed by chemical weapons, but with bullets – it’s almost a breeze, and then when you factor in that you are possibly dying in order to bring democracy to your country, I am surprised that they actually don’t volunteer for such an honor.
Prediction:Very soon…a USAF-USN air strike on the Syrian Military….Will the Syrian Military defend itself this time?
LARGER BACKGROUND ISSUE driving war with Syria and Christian Russia:the demographic consequences of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act which c0mpletely favored the Democratic Party and the post-1960’s anti-war movement-counter culture which morphed into the narcissistic-me generation-liberal “humanitarian” interventionism” to homo-pedophile norm the world(the culture of the Greedy Cheating Mega-CEOS)….
The US had devolved into two race-based Nations:One nonwhite…one Native Born White American….The post-1965 nonwhite Nation doesn’t want to be governed by the White Republican Party Nation…..The Black Congressional Caucus wants war with Christian Russia…
Have you noticed how ferocious the sheboons on MSNBC and the sheboons in the US Congress have been in calling for war with Christian Russia…..
The passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act +post-1965 immigration policy has created a large population of economically redundant Working Class Native Born White American Teenage Males who are now Goldman Sachs POTUS Trump’s-Jared-Ivanka Kushner’s canon fodder for Greater Israel. This is a monumentally evil situation….
Donald Trump had the moral spine of a jelley fish….and his allegiance is to Jared and Ivanka Trump’s precious Israel…
Donald Trump=Chickenhawk-Warhawk shyster businessman with orange hair…this is all he has ever been…
Not everyone was fooled by the supposed intentions and goodwill of Trump.
F. William Engdahl, “The Dangerous Deception Called The Trump Presidency”
http://journal-neo.org/2016/11/25/the-dangerous-deception-called-the-trump-presidency/
The exact repetition of Colin Powell’s vial of anthrax performance shows that nobody gives a hoot about ‘making sense’. Assad must go! Nah, hang. And those who ‘back’ him and ‘would not escape responsibility for this’. Be concerned, very concerned. The Petersburg attack just missed the ‘real culprit’.
Well, people, it’s all over. I had a bad feeling back when Trump let go of Gen. Flynn. Now my worst suspicions have been confirmed: the deep state has won. The Trump we elected is no more ..
We can commit an ‘elite’ U.S. fireteam to Syria, and see if they draw enemy fire. I’ll advise a fireteam composed of Gary D. Cohn, Nikki Haley, Jared Kushner, and Ivanka Trump.
If they get shot to shit, we can always mobilize more ‘elite’ fireteams and commit them. Whatever it takes.
I’m open to suggestions from any armchair generals, on who to send in next.
How monumentally evil is the Trump Family?
Answer:Working Class Native Born White American Teenage Males…bodies stuffed in body bags flown back to crying Working Class Native Born White American Mothers…
While….Donald Trump’s sons…do $$$$$illion business deals in Dubai…jet back to Palm Springs for afternoon tennis….caviar….massages…….over the Palm Springs Blue Sky……stuffed body bags from Syria…Iraq…Afghanistan….flown back to the economically distressed Native Born White American Heartland…..This is POTUS Trump’s MAGA!!! jobs program…..
WAR IS A FUCKING GD RACKET!!!…for the Trump-Kushner Family…..
Richard Spencer
Do you still have fantasies about a future Barron Trump?…you fucking turd!!!
Susan Rice was the designated liar for Team “Obama” (individual’s real name unknown).
Pull all US Troops out of Syria…Iraq…Afghanistan….off of Christian Russia’s borders….out of South Korea…..out of Western Europe….
Cut the US Military budget by 3/4….
Susan Rice=another Sheeboon declaring war on Christian Russia….to honor the memory of the fornicating Baptist Preacher….the late Dr. Martin Luther King……
Like I always say:The 1950’s anti-commie crusade=the integration of the US Military….followed by 60 seconds to nuclear war by JFK….followed by the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act for Blacks……..which immediately resulted in the passage of the 1965 Nonwhite Legal Immigrant Increase Act=Barack Obama’s highly racialized-high fertility Democratic Party Voting Bloc 2008
+2012=midget sheboon Susan Rice declaring war on Christian Russia in 2017….to honor the memory of the fornicating Black Baptist Pastor….Dr. Martin Luther King….
The Unz moderators must be asleep on the job. This is a post worthy of a gold border.
This dismal business has all the hallmarks of made for TV drama. You cover many of the same points as I did in may last two blogposts. There are many aspects that simply do not add up, even as reported in the mainstream press like the NYT.
Trump got burned on the Yemen raid.
Why is the military going along with this one? The last one didn’t happen because no one wanted to sign off on it. That is, Obama drew the line (stupidly). But then decided to make Congress vote for it. Everyone wanted someone else to be the designated ‘leader’.
Syria is no less a loser today. Does Congress want to vote for this? The only thing that is utterly predictable about Trump is he doesn’t want to lose. But even more so, he doesn’t want to be blamed.
He was quite convincing today as the sucker.
But really?
The military and public mostly seem OK with bombing. So maybe we bomb some stuff. It’s disgusting but its just killing military on one side or another along with a lot of collateral damage, dead women and children, etc. But no boots on the ground.
I’d like to think that he won’t do it. Like how could he be so stupid? But it hasn’t stopped anyone sine the 2000 election.
Word is being passed down, that the ‘elite’ U.S. AIPAC division is currently on standby, and ready to be deployed to Syria. Apparently the strategy is to have this ‘elite’ unit of fifth-column sectarian lawyers infiltrate Syrian politics, in an effort begin closing real estate deals in the war torn region.
The difference between now and 2013 is that Russia is in Syria. So, attacking the Assad regime now would be tantamount to war with Russia. Similarly, going after North Korea, where the US has also been saber rattling recently, would be very bloody and could very well go nuclear. I think the first comment on this thread maybe had it right, this is the opposite of “talk soft and carry a big stick”. If I’m wrong, well, it’s been a good run for humanity and sorry to everyone with children and hopes and plans for the future.
AK, maybe it’s time to dust off and update your nuclear war post?
…and napalm, white phosphorous, DU, cluster bombs are all acceptable. And not to forget a nuclear device of course they are the civilised ways of killing human beings.
It is known that the apparition of Haley’s Comet presage wars. Do we have it? No, but we have Nikki Haley.
U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley, Feb. 16, 2017:
““I just put out to the members of the Seucrity Council to help me understand: When we have so much going on in the world, why is it that every single month we’re going to sit down and have a hearing where all they do is obsess over Israel?…
The Security Council is supposed to discuss how to maintain international peace and security. But at our meeting on the Middle East, the discussion was not about Hizballah’s illegal build-up of rockets in Lebanon. It was not about the money and weapons Iran provides to terrorists. It was not about how we defeat ISIS. It was not about how we hold Bashar al-Assad accountable for the slaughter of hundreds and thousands of civilians. No, instead, the meeting focused on criticizing Israel, the one true democracy in the Middle East. I am new around here, but I understand that’s how the Council has operated, month after month, for decades.
I’m here to say the United States will not turn a blind eye to this anymore. I am here to underscore the ironclad support of the United States for Israel. I’m here to emphasize the United States is determined to stand up to the UN’s anti-Israel bias. We will never repeat the terrible mistake of Resolution 2334 and allow one-sided Security Council resolutions to condemn Israel. Instead, we will push for action on the real threats we face in the Middle East…
It is the UN’s anti-Israel bias that is long overdue for change. The United States will not hesitate to speak out against these biases in defense of our friend and ally, Israel”.
What are the ‘real threats’? Assad, Russia, Iran, Sarin gas. Understood?
Always check the timing. Now Globalists did realize that they cannot impeach Trump.
So?????????????????
They decided with this false flag to reeducate him.
Some people claim that US wars in Levant are for israel.
I am not sure of anything.
But I do think that real power is hiding behind of the curtain.
On every occasion like this when a chemical weapons atrocity causes a stir, discussion always neglects the question I find most interesting, which is: we all know that traditional methods, like bullets that make heads explode like overripe melons, and shrapnel that flings entrails into picturesque sausage-like festoons are licit and acceptable to enlightened humanity, but use of chemicals is outside the pale of decency. But why is that? I think this article contains clues to the answer, but I can’t seem to follow the exact line of reasoning:
J.B.S. Haldane on chemical warfare
I don’t know, maybe Assad/his government felt they could now get away with it and could use chemical weapons to terrorize and punish the opposition. But even if Assad’s military is responsible, how does this incident really change anything? Tbh I don’t care if Assad’s military gasses a few dozen children, and no remotely sane person would regard this as legitimate reason for intervention. And the outrage is absurdly hypocritical given what’s going on in Yemen with direct US support.
Really disappointing how Trump seems to be preparing an intervention, total madness.
Kek bless the God-Emperor, but if He will not rally the troops, His successor will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q
The Who said it the best, 45 years back.
He had vision? Doubtfully. Just wanted to win elections and thus was pressing all right buttons.
I had no doubt for a second it was all for show.
American history starting with Indian treaties is one of broken promises and lies.
Reading all the black pill nonsense from cowardly panikeri I can only lament the fact that you can not have an NKVD blocking detachment to deal with them. So I’m stuck with repeating what I wrote in Steve Sailer’s thread:
Trump doesn’t believe what he said about Assad yesterday! How do I know? Simple: HE HASN’T TWEETED ABOUT IT! IF HE DOES TWEET ABOUT IT, THEN, AND ONLY THEN, BE WORRIED!
I am not joking! He tweets only what’s on his heart, if it’s not in the tweets it’s just rhetoric!
And if you are still not convinced, watch his body language when he spoke of Syria. It’s clearly of someone who is BS-ing his way through.
I sure hope you’re right.
Reminiscent of the bombing of Deir Az Zohr by the US in support of ISIS when Kerry stepped out of the path laid out for him by the NeoCons.
“The difference between now and 2013 is that Russia is in Syria. So, attacking the Assad regime now would be tantamount to war with Russia. ”
The problem is that there have been too many cases where Russia has not responded accordingly to an aggression against it. Many people think – whether justified or unjustified – that if Russian military, or a close Russian ally, is attacked Russia will not respond.
Hopefully there are people in deciding roles in the Russian military and political circles who have the guts to act if it ever gets to this. I mean, those US bases in the Middle East are within the distance of Russian cruise missiles from Caspian and Black Sea…
Will this be the final test of trump. ? If he follows the neo-con’s into this minefield can anyone doubt — WHATEVER the EXACT reasons why — that his independence from the deep state is basically neglible ?
I feel sorry for those who “believed”…(they did have good reason to believe, given the putrid alternative….)
If my fears are realized, I just hope that the millions who supported him reject BOTH of the major (sides of the same business) party.
SOMETHING has to push Americans out of the unholy rut they have been in for decades now….
Excellent response. Don’t forget though, depleted uranium, cluster bombs, napham & Daisy cutters are also symbols of our humanity & love of democracy.
It just makes you feel so warm, even gooey, inside, doesn’t it ?
YES
YES
YES, &
YES.
Whether or not the attack was a false flag, that picture of Nikki Haley with the photo of the dead child ought to be very high on the list of “Why Women Should Not Be Allowed Anywhere Near Diplomacy.” First, Angela Merkel consents to the massive invasion of her country because of a dead Syrian child. Now Nikki Haley wants Americans to be put at risk to kill more Syrians because of another dead Syrian child. Otto von Bismarck was right, women’s roles should be confined to children (their own), the church and the kitchen.
“…the path laid out for him by the NeoCons.”
Agree.
Paul Craig Roberts’ invective against ziocons: “The entire history of the 21st century is the history of Washington’s wars instigated by Zionist neoconservatives and the state of Israel against Muslim countries. So far Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Afghanistan, Yemen, and parts of Syria and Pakistan, have been destroyed by gratuitous military attacks that are, without any doubt, war crimes under the Nuremberg Standard established by the United States. The hoax “war on terror” has not only murdered and dislocated millions of peoples, producing waves of Muslim immigration over the Western World, but also destroyed Western civil liberty.” http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/04/05/germany-rip/
Mrs. Haley and other non-Jewish warriors like McCain and Lindsey Graham are indeed the whores in service of the “chosen” and mega war profiteers, from weaponry peddlers to the financial “great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity:”
Russian federation has been trying to avoid a full-blown military conflict that the ziocons have been provoking with the vicious audacity. The lying, thieving, criminal congress, run by the CIA /Mossad, is not an honest partner. Russia is cornered.
The only guy used chemical weapons in wars against civilians on record is the USA during the Vietnam War; Agent Orange, Agent White and Agent Rainbow are still wrecking havoc in Vietnam. The only guy conduct false flag ops to blame the victims for violating human rights via its NED sponsored NGOs then wage reckless wars against the victims on the moral high ground is the USA and its NATO partners.
This poisonous gas attack on Syria civilians bears too many similarities to the past records of the USA and its NATO partners’ behaviour.
You realize you’re talking about nuclear war, right? Why any rational person would hope for that truly escapes me. No, the only thing we can hope for is that there are people in deciding roles in the American military and political circles who still remember about the concept of MAD.
You are hopeless romantic.
Heh.
I had an outline of a post in my drafts on how a US-Russian clash in Syria might escalate, which I expected to write if HRC won. I might brush that off.
I disagree that attacking Syria automatically means war, at least so long as the Russian military isn’t directly targetted. Russia doesn’t have any formal military alliances with Syria, so a lack of retaliation in Syria proper will be justifiable – and well-advised, considering massive American aeronaval dominance in the region.
Of course this would be a humiliation for Putin on at least the order of Euromaidan if not greater, so he will probably be forced to respond somehow, somewhere.
I am rather of the opinion you hold, Parsifal. If it was any other Republican, hell, any other politician I can think of, I would be terrified by Trump’s words. With Trump, I am just concerned. How many times have I seen the crowds throw their hands up and wail, “Trump has betrayed us! It’s all over!”
. . . and then, somehow, it’s not all over, and Trump hasn’t betrayed us.
He could, of course. He could roll over for the Deep State. But he hasn’t yet.
Despair is a sin.
And if Trump does end up stabbing us in the back, are we any worse off than if Lady MacBeth was in the White House?
Key items showing false-flag nature of the Syrian gas attack absurdly attributed to Assad
(1) Anti-Assad “reporter” Feras Karam tweeted about the gas attack in Syria 24 hours before it happened – Tweet says: “Tomorrow a media campaign will begin to cover intense air raids on the Hama countryside & use of chlorine against civilians”
(2) Gas masks were distributed 2 days before the attack
(3) Rescue workers are not wearing protective gear as they would if severely-toxic gas attack had occurred, as Anatoly Karlin notes above
(4) Pakistani British doctor promoting Syria gas attack story, “who at the time of attack was taking interview requests instead of helping injured flooding in” is Dr Shajul Islam, “used as source by US & UK media, despite facing terror charges for kidnapping & torturing two British journalists in Syria & being struck off the medical register”
(5) Videos previously exposed as fraudulent are being recycled “A chemical weapons shipment run by Saudi mercenaries [is blown up] before it can be offloaded & used to attack the Syrian army in Hama … [this story] has turned into Syrian aircraft dropping sarin gas on orphanages … videos shot in Egypt with the smoke machines are dragged out again.”
(6) Gas attack story is supported by known Soros-funded frauds ‘White Helmets’ who had previously celebrated alongside Israeli-Saudi backed ‘Al Qaeda’ extremists after seizing Idlib from Syrian Army forces. White Helmets “have been caught filming their fake videos in places like Egypt & Morocco, using actors, smoke machines & fake blood”.
—
Very regrettably, Russia & its potentially powerful media, are playing their traditional Israeli-serving role of being inexcusably timid in denouncing blatant false-flag deception & fraud … Just as Russia signed off on killing Qaddafi & hurling Libya into mass death & chaos
Destruction of Syria & Assad serves long-being-implemented 1980s Israeli Oded Yinon Plan to destroy & dismember all major countries surrounding mafia state Israel
Also, major US-backed economics behind the campaign to destroy Syria –
Map of pipeline alternatives thru Syria:
(a) Russia-supported pipeline from Iran thru Iraq & Syria
(b) US-supported pipeline from Qatar thru Saudi Arabia, Jordan & Syria
http://oil-price.net/cartoons/iran-iraq-syria-pipeline.jpg
Please bear in mind, O our host, that Gen. Dunford, chairman of the JCS, said (in October?) that for the US to set up no fly zones in Syria would mean that we are at war with Syria and Russia. The next day in a NBC radio interview Lady MacBeth once more advocated for such no fly zones.
Unlike the Obama administration, I somehow think the Trump administration will actually listen to military men like Dunford, Kelly and Mattis. For the last generation, the US has stalked more or less unopposed on the world stage, throwing its weight around as it pleases. No one, we think, can oppose us! Well, that’s nice and all, but I haven’t forgotten the Cold War and the threat of nuclear confrontation with the USSR/Russia, and I’ll bet you a meal of shashlik, lepeshki and vodka that Mattis, Dunford and Kelly haven’t either.
Maybe my faith is naive, we’ll have to wait and see.
Where do they get these bloodthirsty women? Is it political ambition that drives them? Make them join the army and fight the wars they are so eager to start.
Every time someone needs to hold up a photograph of a dead child to make a case for war (that ends up killing hundreds of thousands of people), I simply ignore it.
Trump is losing the plot
Gordian Knot time. I don’t know for sure what it is about politics that turns knowledgeable people of different stripes into Revusky’s Hi IQ Idiots. They have done controlled tests on this phenomena with brain wiring and visual stimuli to show that an emotional element interferes with (or dominates) logical thinking when political themes or visuals are invoked. The big boys must have known this through other wisdom when they allowed for universal suffrage but that is an argument for another day.
right down to the local community papers even in foreign countries.
Are you saying that Russia should allow its forces in Syria to be attacked or bombed without retribution?
It is quite possible that this ENTIRE incident is a staged production. Film and special effects people are certainly capable of it. Assuming any of this is credible before seeing objective evidence only reinforces the narrative. On the surface of things, it seems illogical and obviously self-defeating and unnecessary for the Syrian government to have done this. One should withold any judgement until the facts are in
Either that, or there’s “real estate” at Arlington Trump has been offered, say a 6’LX4’WX6’D up there on that hill above the Shining City in Arlington Cemetery. Up there next to Jack and Bob Kennedy who, whatever ELSE you think of them were the last two to say No to a bullshit war.
Real estate in Arlington is what those who oppose wars earn for themselves. You may have silver and gold or you may have lead. Pick one. And so he has.
Rule #1 is, war for profit goes on. Or else.
Rule #2 is, Presidents (or candidates as we saw with RFK) will never change Rule #1 and survive the attempt. This is our country for the past century and a half. I’m sure the armorers made themselves a pretty penny during the civil war. Ok, ok, so half a million died, millions maimed, all White Americans (don’t want to hear about the Black squads, sorry). but cannon balls and black powder makes good money. Nothing has changed since. And they’ll risk lots of casualties toying with a nuclear confrontation without blinking an eye. Lots of money in rebuilding cities, too.
I really hate our ruling classes these days. If they do this with Syria, start in on Russia with skirmishes and outright war, we’ll know we’re ruled by evil. There’s no need for any of it. We “won”. We leveled the Middle East in response to 9/11. You’d think it’s enough from looking at the carnage and destruction we’ve wrought on them. But it’s never enough, not anymore.
Hammer them with carrier-borne TacAir from the Med. Of course, Vlad might have a little something to say about THAT with submarines and destroyers. Or all of it. Assad is Putin’s (and especially, Iran’s) bro, Putin did NOT do what he did last year so the CIA can initiate the fall of Assad. We’re very, VERY close to a World War. All the carriers look to be in Norfolk as I rode through Hampton Roads two weeks ago, however. Perhaps they’d rather not get a hole poked in a carrier’s hull?
This turn of events is the biggest challenge ever to my support of Trump. If he really goes the way he is indicating, he will lose the support of people like me — and there may be millions like me. We have no alternative candidate, but we will never again be led down this road.
If Trump turns, that is the end of everything.
What I’m saying is that I can’t envision a scenario whereby an American attack on Russian forces in Syria doesn’t lead to all out nuclear war and I sincerely hope it doesn’t come to that. Otherwise, we can continue this discussion in the afterlife. Mr. Karlin seems to have different ideas and I would very much like to read the post on various escalation scenarios that he had worked up in case of a Clinton victory. As it is and even before any escalations, US and Russian forces operating in such close vicinity seems to me extremely dangerous.
But don’t you realize that this type of thinking gives America a leeway to attack Russia whenever it pleases?
Your way of thinking goes something like this: “America can attack Russia because it knows that Russia cannot retaliate because it would start WW3”.
May I ask that why shouldn’t America worry about starting WW3 if it attacks Russia?
It rarely does, and almost never has to. Unfortunately.
That tweet certainly is a classic.
“Persons with knowledge believe…”
You could write a book about deception based on those four words alone. “Persons with knowledge” is a phrase calculated to inspire envy and respect in the great unwashed, who of course have no knowledge. But wait a moment! Who are those “persons with knowledge”? They seem to be unnamed and undefined – could that be deliberate?
And then we learn that those “persons with knowledge” believe something. But wait a moment! If they have knowledge, why would they be reduced to “believing”? Wouldn’t they actually, well, know?
So the tweet tells us that some undefined people, who may or may not exist, know something and believe… presumably, something else that they don’t know about.
And I would care about this why?
When ignoramuses like Morell (a pampered villain) get power over resources of an empire like the US, the whole humanity becomes endangered. The greatest danger is a rule of the opportunistic incompetent. It is doubtful that the all-powerful CIA has any knowledgeable and principled persons left among its rank anymore, after the years of careful selection for opportunists/profiteers. At least there is no way the ziocons, war profiteers and their families will be able to survive the next world war.
Psychopaths are anti-life by definition.
Ah, I see the misunderstanding here. My point was simply that any discussion of how Russia would respond to an attack on its forces by the US is moot because it will respond in kind, and the whole thing will go nuclear in 3,2,1. Specifically, it very much is the US that should be worrying about starting WW3 in this case, not Russia.
During the Cold War, both sides realized the ramifications of direct military conflict and acted accordingly. The US is behaving as if something has changed in that respect and I find it terrifying. What is different now is that there is a huge asymmetry in forces that perhaps has instilled unwarranted confidence in the Americans that they can win a war with Russia.
I think you maybe overestimate Russia’s strength, in somewhat the same way as the US may be underestimating it. I noticed in another conversation you thought that Russia should have vetoed the UN resolution allowing the US to go into Afghanistan. To me, this is a complete misjudgment of Russia’s situation at that moment in time, while ignoring, or forgetting, the resolve of the US immediately following September 11. Not to mention, there was probably a geopolitical calculation that having the US bogged down in Afghanistan, something the Russians could envision all too well, would allow Russia some breathing room to get back on its feet and claw back some influence in the near abroad.
Look, I’m all for Russia’s resistance to the empire, I’d just like it to happen without WW3.
Nor since the 1860 election. Bullshit wars are a thing. Every bomb dropped, another 5000 dollars. Of course, there’s fuel, wear and tear, parts, feed bags for the troops, beds, gear, all billable. This is our industry now. A clever conversion of our manufacturing capabilities, no? Evil, but clever..
I think it is exactly the other way around. Russia has options, US doesn’t, apart from the fact that it lost all international subjectivity and is now nothing more than Israel’s “subsidiary”. Russia is not desperate, US establishment is and that is why it is so desperate to start “war” with Russia, whatever that means. Russia will always avoid war–it is her MO for decades. US desperation for this “war” with Russia has very logical explanations, granted that some of the factors in all this US insanity are, indeed, irrational (and hysterical) and metaphysical in nature.
Jimbo you know we are ISIS
“the deep state might be triumphing after all.”
Deep state… Shallow state… spit
Don’t you dimwits know that as far as Amerika is concerned, they are all the same.
It is not as huge as you might think. In fact, one of the reasons for a hysteria is precisely a sense (and very rarely–a rational understanding) of the fact of a complete failure in forecasting what Russia is both economically and militarily. Considering an atrocious incompetence of American so called “Russia expertdom” there is nothing surprising here.
Russia of early 2000s and Russia of 2017 are two very different countries in every single respect.
Some people in US military are beginning to understand that US can not win conventional conflict with Russia in Russia’s immediate vicinity, it will be defeated and will sustain casualties which will make Vietnam look like a week at the spa.
The timing is more than suspicious so I tuned in Fox News for straight up false flag narrative, and sure enough there was Sen. Bob Corker saying Assad was a monster gassing his people and cutting off their genitals, with Corker calling for Putin to repudiate Assad to the thanks of Bill Hemmer–end of script. Incidentally, has anyone else noticed that Corker more resembles that stuttering, court-appointed lawyer in My Cousin Vinny than any statesman?
The entire history of the development of the rules of evidence in law, science, and politics, a signature achievement of Western Civilization, is being thrown away and hardly anyone notices or cares. Today a canned, identical, and obviously pre-scripted narrative available within minutes of these events goes unquestioned, even when, as in this latest theater, at least one announcement was made before the event.
I’m also sickened by the concurrent Wounded Warriors theater at the White House because this empty jingoistic stunt may signal that our military may become active on the ground over there and therefore Trump’s neo handlers are already selling the inevitable loss of limbs as a sign of our righteousness instead of the reality, which is that our soldiers lose their lives and limbs so good Isrseli boys need not.
Yeah, sure–you know, those stupid Russians who are still using spyglasses and arithmometers in their intelligence efforts, how can they possibly notice the movement of a brigade size units.
No.
Clearly the false flag committed by none other than the Deep State not only against Assad but also against the boogeyman for all that is wrong – the Putin government – continues.
Here are a couple of facts unknown to many since the US Pravda the outlet for the Deep State to report only approved ‘news’ is hard at work to frame Assad.
During HRC term as SOS she licensed Marc Turi the arms dealer to funnel weapons into Syria via Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Marc Turi also stated that she funneled Sarin gas from the Ghaddafi arsenal after his assassination to the US sponsored rebels Al Nusra and others making up ISIS into Syria as a means to overthrow, accuse and frame Assad as the culprit using Sarin gas against his own people to stay in power.
HRC and Obama et al attempted to railroad Marc Turi after his services ended as a means to silence him. The out-of-the-blue charges against him via the Loretta Lynch DOJ accusing him of being an arms smuggler without license nearly put him in prison ergo Turi threaten Hillary and Obama to expose their treacherous actions in Benghazi that was used to set up the overthrow of Assad in Syria. His threats of exposure of the arming of ISIS in Syria as well as the Sarin gas provided to ISIS murdering Syrian civilians while plasing the blame on Assad ended the prosecution and charges against him by the DOJ who suddenly and without explanation dropped all charges against him.
The saber rattling against Assad and Putin continues unabated as we see here.
Nicki Haley – member of the #NeverTrump ‘performs’ her role as planned namely to continue the anti-Assad and anti-Putin agenda. I’m sure traitor McCain the Soros and CFR stooge is whispering into her ear.
Trump made a big mistake when appointing her into this position simply because her agenda as part of Trump’s republican enemies within while placing trust in her she has not earned and is contrary to the DT agenda.
On a sidenote: In October 2016 the UK Parliament published their final investigative report of Hillary and her actions in Libya/Benghazi accusing her of war crimes. The US Pravda did not inform American voters about this investigation.
Shortly after that the Syrian president Assad and Vladimir Putin submitted a dossier to the ICC that described the Deep State and its agents Obama and HRC about their war crimes in Syria detailing all the findings including the use of Sarin gas provided to ISIS to be used on innocent civilians while blaming it on Assad. The ICC studied this dossier and accepted said dossier for a future trial against HRC and Obama et al among others having participated in the attempt to overthrow his government and the slaughter of over 250,000+ Syrians as a means to justify their coup.
Lastly – the recent report of the Russian government spokesperson with reporters in regard to Tillerson’s planned visit to Russia included this statement: “If the disinformation, accusations and lies in the US via the Deep State propaganda media continues accusing Russia having hacked the election etc the Russian president may expose Obama about various issues and actions that her begged Vladimir Putin to keep secret. All bets are off!”
Assad was not the one ordering the use of Sarin gas to attack his own citizens but the Deep State and it’s agents like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, McCain, HRC and Obama et al using Ghaddafi’s chemical weapons after his assassination.
My view on things is informed by two key assumptions/observations:
(1) The US can wipe the floor with Russia in Syria or anywhere in the Middle East.
(2) Russia can wipe the floor with NATO east and north of the Suwalki gap.
If things really go south in Syria – as in, actual Russian forces coming under sustained attack from the USAF – I would expect either:
(a) If they decide on a military response –> it will be either in Ukraine (e.g. ranging from recognition of the LDNR to resurrection of the Novorossiya project) or even the Baltics;
(b) If they decide on a negotiated surrender-in-all-but-name in Syria with the US allowing Russia its forces intact in exchange for abandoning Assad –> a domestic clampdown to contain the mass outrage that this humiliation will doubtless elicit.
“Russia is not desperate, US establishment is and that is why it is so desperate to start “war” with Russia, whatever that means. Russia will always avoid war–it is her MO for decades. ”
Agree. You are right. Russia will always try to avoid the war. But the US needs desperately a war, both to patch the enormous holes in economy (the $20 trillion debt and counting, crumbling welfare system, loss of manufacture and such), and create new sources of mineral riches from newly subdued countries. Instead of revamping the internal system (a painful and highly strenuous process for a society), the US wants to solve the problem by the old ways, externally. Since the US is unable to reform (do you see any signs, any hope for the internal reforms? – I do not), the deciders will go, most likely, for the jugular against Russia. Only in this respect Russia is cornered.
The RF government has a task of politely (but painfully) reminding the “deciders” that Russia will not capitulate to the “chosen,” fed reserve, and mega-war profiteers (all of them are most likely under a total surveillance and “guidance” by the CIA). In the absence of the painful aspect of reminding, the deciders are not able to come to their senses. Barring an internal coup d’etat led by American patriots, the US is rolling towards US-made global catastrophe.
Being military is certainly no guarantee against making misjudgements of this kind.
Here’s what Lang at SST has to say and he has both directly relevant experience and contacts:
“Some of the retired military people whom McMaster inherited on the NSC staff think that of the US intervenes against the Syrian government, Russia will back away from, us. I do not agree with this. ”
This moment is where Trump succeeds or fails, imo.
Tell me how this works , how it happens. Carl Bidt says same thing NYT says before any investigation . So does Hailey at UN . Max Boot on MSNBC ,and GOP Representative from Oklhaoma on FOX . Is there an universal subsonic dog whistle that brings the howling out of the rabid mad poisonous vipers from the hidden pit ? How do they start slithering out of the rock together?
I guess I should include Bob Corker as well .
How does the other wailing from Israel that Iran is more dangerous than ISIS synch with this dog whistle ?
There was no UN resolution allowing the US attack on Afghanistan, which was another deliberately lawless act by the US regime.
The Bush regime probably could have got one if it had felt it needed it, given the almost universally supportive climate immediately after 9/11. Instead it chose to rely on a shamelessly spurious and wilfully dishonest mis-application of the supposed right of self defence after 9/11, knowing that nobody important was going to question it. That produced a much more useful precedent for the US regime than meekly complying with the law and the US’s treaty obligations would have.
Likewise, the Bush regime probably could have had Bin laden produced for trial somewhere by the Taliban if it had wanted that, but the political and brute power needs of the moment required the US regime to be seen to be kicking some foreign butt aggressively and promptly.
Anyone seen Prince Bandar recently?
Theoretically, yes. But there is a contingency to be seriously considered. Russia can reach US forces staging areas in case of any thought of doing stupid things on US part. Russia can also disrupt US forces’ C4 element. These are not conditions under which US forces ever fought or know how to fight. It is also possible to reinforce Syria’s contingent by Russia’s Quick Reaction Forces, which are same ol’ paratroop divisions. A lot will depend on the Iranian position but, it is my gut feeling, if the deal goes “hot” in Syria, Iran will be attacked. But again, this is a long discussion.
Possible, and even highly likely. But, again, a lot of contingencies–US bases (Anti-missile installations, f.e.) will be annihilated, Russia does have no a very heavy “first” salvo–this si nothing what US ever encountered. First salvo by X-101 and 3M14 may range anywhere from 600 to 1000 missiles.
This scenario alone–possible. But again, there are factors, which must be considered here and format of discussion board (otherwise my posts will be colossal) is not a convenient format to do so. To put it mildly–Russia does have means for maneuver with forces and means (Sily i Sredstva)–all within conventional scenario.
The safest way to defang America lies in any future economic collapse. Faced with an imploding economy and a choice between minimal social welfare measures or a grotesquely expanded military, the choice is obvious. I still think it will happen later this decade, if there is any humanity left to witness it.
The Neocons and the other warmongers seem to realise this, too, hence their increasing recklessness in seeking ever more dangerous wars. As if one more country to loot will somehow stave off the inevitable.
I have felt for some years now that other major powers ( Russia, China ) should have precipitated this collapse, since the longer they remain in power – and both Houses are still overwhelmingly Neocon – the more dangerous they become.
Philip Giraldi occasionally mentions a choke point near Dhahran where over 60% of Saudi Arabia’s oil is processed. He regards it as the World’s biggest engineering weak spot. I suggest Mr Putin arranges a nasty accident there ASAP, thereby preventing production for months and months. The panic alone should be enough to trigger the collapse.
Russia is keenly aware of this and that is precisely what she is doing now.
Does anyone know if parathion (E-605) and other similar organophosphate pesticides are still being used in Syrian agriculture or are still present in some form there? This class of chemicals are typically incredibly toxic to people and they used to be widespread in Africa and the Middle East up until very recently, and there were reports of tons of annual deaths from accidental exposure in for example Syria.
The reason I’m asking is because according to some of the geolocation efforts, the alleged bomb impacts occured in and around an old agricultural facility with large buildings and rows of silos, and several of the reported properties of the alleged chemical match those of parathion and similar pesticides.
Parathion smells horrible, like steaming sewage slush, and it causes acute respiratory difficulties, constricted pupils, horrifying convulsions and ultimately death. Many symptoms are somewhat similar to those of weaponized nerve agents such as Sarin and VX (they’re also organophosphates) but unlike the pesticides these lack any noticeable odor and they don’t form visible clouds.
Now, from what I can see Damascus decided to get rid of these things after a parliamentary decision in 1999. This basically meant just burying it in the ground or in some locked basement somewhere. Later on, the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) set off to help Syria actually destroy these giant stashes and a program to this end was initiated about ten years ago. They dug up close to a thousand tons of it from all over the country, but it seems like the civil war got in the way before they were finished, and who knows what the jihadist “authorities” are up to in regards to that.
Just one possible theory among many, I suppose. I do think it’s a tad far fetched myself, but it was just something that popped into my head immediately upon reading about this.
It appears to be all over.
Time to diminish and go into the west, leave the humans to their bloodbath and corruption.
Current US “elites” across the whole spectrum of state’s activity–from economic, to military, to intelligence, to diplomacy are simply not competent to deal with global realities. In terms of statesmen–US does not produce statesmen anymore, times of FDR, Ike or even Nixon are long gone. US “elite” production are mostly Ivy League boys and girls who are only conditioned for navigating system, which gets out only politicians who only know how to get elected.
I doubt either country will directly attack the other. In the extremely unlikelihood of such an attack, an escalation to nuclear would be even more unlikely, given that this will result in the end of both civilizations and annihilation of both peoples. It is silly to think that it’s even possible.
Let’s look at (remotely) plausible scenarios. Would Russia want to wipe its own civilization off the face of the Earth over getting its troops killed in Syria? Would America do the same because a few thousand of its troops were killed in the Baltics, or Poland? Not going to happen. In fact, I would put the odds of a nuclear response to American troops installing a puppet government and occupying Moscow at below 50%. Because as in the case of Napoleon’s or the Polish occupation, Russia can come back from that. It’s never coming back from a nuclear war.
I agree with Karlin that the USA taking out Russian troops in Syria (really doubt this would happen) will result in a high likelihood of Russia occupying the Baltics (taking out American troops in the process) and parts of Ukraine. Russia likes to reciprocate. That’s not going to lead to nuclear war, though I imagine Russia would be out of swift and total sanctions would be imposed.
” we will never again be led down this road.” You will, you will because you like most losers are driven by your own projections. You projected your hopes and wishful thinking on Trump and it worked perfectly for him. He got elected. But now after firing Bannon there is nothing left. He was the last and the only guarantor of your hopes. That’s why MSM hated Bannon so much. The only pre-election promises that actually will be retained are torture, Guantanamo and stealing their oil. Did you vote for these items? Anyway, that is all you are left with. Get used to it:
And enjoy your Trump as president.
If we are going to make wild speculations, perhaps it’s a Russian operation designed to get America sucked into a Syrian quagmire as Russia exits, so Russia can do more in its backyard while the USA is preoccupied in the Middle East. Georgia happened while the USA was in Iraq.
I think there is basically a zero chance of Assad having ordered this. It may be a US false-flag operation, Which would be stupid and unlikely. Given how heavily Russia is involved there, this could be probably uncovered rather easily given the competence of Russian intelligence.
Most likely – some local commander acting for who knows what reason or local resistence doing a false flag operation withot American orders. Assad’s forces are apparently not very centralized. Incompetence by Assad’s forces or desperation by resistence makes more sense than does a conspiracy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LULzvg1gA5U
US “needs” any kind of military success after de facto lost wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. US military record of the last 70 years is rather unimpressive–not a single war with first rate opponent, only extolled ad nauseam “victory” over third rate Saddam forces. A lot of psychology comes into this. Not only many US generals sleep and dream how to fight Russia, they desperately crave it. In conventional war with Russia this will be US, not Russia, who will initiate nuclear exchange. The reasons for that are numerous, including massive reputational military losses–from losing one or two aircraft carriers, to sustaining (which is highly likely) massive casualties which will lead to impossibility of attaining any political objectives. Russia is also completely capable of conventionally striking US proper. By about 2021-2023 this capability will grow exponentially, including the ability (which US currently doesn’t have and most likely will not have) to field missile and other technologies which completely zero-down US military potential. Pentagon knows this.
Just few years ago:
BBC News Caught Staging FAKE Chemical Attack In Syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLcRxDfqBg9aDYiI13PRimygPjn0EZVYRG&v=p54hHhlLjRk
Look at hilarious acting straight from The Walking Dead at 2:37 min.
Maybe all this is about putting Obama and Trump through exactly the same “do as we say or else” deep state scenario? Remember that Obama knew that the case for blaming Assad for Ghouta was at best not certain.
There was a lot of very loud rhetoric from Obama, but no direct attack in response. One might almost say that Obama and Putin “cooperated” to allow the situation to defuse. That was heavily criticized by the strongest ZionCon fanatics in the US government and media.
Now we have an almost identical repeat of the very same scenario and Trump must know that real intelligence suggests the same situation Obama faced. Trump´s choices seem to be three-fold: (1) denounce the deep state treason in the US government, (2) kowtow to the deep state and have the US military directly attack Syria, or (3) do the same as Obama and let the situation defuse with time (w/wo help from Putin).
I would guess Trump will choose option (3) just like Obama. The real question is whether the ZionCon control of the US government includes both the Pentagon and the CIA or whether the US military still resists the country being ruled by a foreign sect. The media is clearly 100% ZionCon and this restricts Trump’s freedom to choose option (1).
I do not know how is the mighty Russia military intelligence after the major shakeups by Putin and Shoygu in 2010/11 doing? Where is your mighty all knowing GRU? They did not not know that something is being cooked up and the chemical weapon provocation was being prepared? Just few years in proper places few days ago could avert it. But nothing happened. Did bombing in St. Petersburg divert their attention?
At least in 2013 there was a leak that apparently stopped Obama from going all the way:
Remember WHY Obama Didn’t Act on the Red Line Violation? Leaked Document Suggested Obama Greenlighted Chemical Weapon False Flag Attack
https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2017/04/06/remember-why-obama-didnt-act-on-the-red-line-violation-leaked-document-suggested-obama-greenlighted-chemical-weapon-false-flag-attack/
However you spin it does not look good. Russia is outplayed on every turn.
I could definitely foresee more involvement in Ukrainian affairs, but Baltic aggression seems over the top to me. By invading any of the Baltic countries, Russia will provoke the ire of European countries, especially those within NATO, and a likely counterattack. A war against the US in Syria and one against NATO in the Balts is way too much to envision. Things in Ukraine would undoubtedly unwind too. Wars on three fronts for Russia would be suicide. I think that what Karlin states here makes sense, and would preempt this sort of a scenario from occuring:
My spin on it is for you to take some kind of calming medicine (try Valerian Root) and start learning about real world outside. Stopping projecting your (very wrong) perceptions of how complex military-intelligence machines work onto something which needs more than just reading a bunch of media outlets, may also help.
May be yes, may be no. However you try to spin it, but it is US which is hysterical, not Russia.
US most enjoyable hobby always was to beat up small South American countries.
Jooz only redirected this valuable US passion to Middle East.
There is nothing wrong with that.
“Russia is also completely capable of conventionally striking US proper.”
You are an ex military man and why do say such a nonsense. Everybody has a capability of conventional strike agains US. Even Lichtenstein. But who could get away with it? And why anybody would want to do such a pointless thing?
That’s not how anybody really expects a superpower confrontation to lead to nuclear war, though.
Most escalation scenarios since mutually assured destruction became generally accepted involve a repeated series of escalations, each assuming the other side will step back from the brink in response, or a loss of command and control giving rise to uncontrolled or mistaken releases, until at some point one side is faced, or thinks it is faced, with a stark “use it or lose it” choice with only a few minutes to decide.
It’s not that likely that even open war would lead to an uncontrolled nuclear exchange. but how much risk are you prepared to accept when the consequences are that serious?
The real concern today, though, is that there might be American politicians and military men who actually believe that their first strike counterforce capabilities combined with missile defences to mop up surviving attacks actually could limit damage to the continental US to acceptable levels.
That’s one /pol/ack’s idea: http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/119714121
It certainly could have also been a rogue element within the Syrian military. It’s not exactly a secret there are too many Islamist sympathizers within it, which partly explains why it has such low effectiveness.
I agree that one or the other of these is probably likelier than a specifically American inspired false flag, which in turn is likelier than Assad having ordered it directly.
“it is US which is hysterical” – It is just their normal state of mind. It is really a tactical MO. You have to convince people. Somebody said that it is tribute to American people that they have to be lied dot but it is not that they can be deceived so easily. Hysteria does the job.
Russia appears to be calm and stoic only because people there are passive because they know that the decisions will be made for them as usual and they have no say in it since times immemorial while in the US there is still a presence that the people rule.
Why would Assad do it, assuming he is winning the civil war?
First, Assad requires political backers to stay in power, and if his backers dessert, he will fall.
Second, during the civil war, his political backers have no choice but to back Assad, or otherwise their faction could fall from power.
Third, after the civil war, his political backers could very well consider new leadership.
Fourth, by using poison gas, a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions, Assad and his backers are now international war criminals.
Fifth, if his backers move against Assad, they could all end up in front of the Hague.
Sixth, its a nice FU to Donald Trump and America, as Assad doesn’t need their support.
Seventh, it either brings the Donald into an unwinnable quagmire, weakening America, or Donald looks more like Ronald (McDonald).
If it looks like he is going to win the war, and Russia and Iran have his back (in terms of money and arms), gassing these people helps cement the support of his backers, at the expense of pissing off some nations he neither needs nor likes.
So, Lichtenstein has a stock-pile of X-101 and 3M14 counting in thousands. Well, live and learn. I also never heard of Lichtenstein having strategic aviation, but what do I really know.
Russia can. Precisely for the reason that she can respond “in kind” conventionally. I am not going to go with you here into details of possible escalation(s) to a nuclear threshold, but Russia’s military doctrine is explicit (article #26) in what is preferred method of “non-nuclear power (kinetic) containment”–written in the most clear Russian language. The same goes to (article #27) criteria for nuclear response. And it is “Russia can”, which drives D.C. completely mad. This is the only nation in the world which can wipe US off the maps, while, if necessary and criteria are met, respond conventionally. Are you going to tell me that this doesn’t matter?
Many decades now have passed by when the last time I did hear the theme song from Verdi’s Nabukko.
Things change!
The purpose of this False Flag chemical attack by the CIA trained terrorists who are called ‘rebel’ by the illiterate zionist salesman, is to create No Fly Zone, modified a ‘save zone’ by the illiterate ‘president’ to partition Syria and Iraq to erect kurdistan. Kurds are trained CIA terrorists spying for Israel and US. The axis of evil US – Israel- Britain CANNOT topple Assad, so the illiterate ‘president’ is trying the false flag operation to establish NFZ, the US/Hillary project with the help of the YOUNG zionist Kushner in the business of illegal settlements.
The illiterate zionist salesman in the business of escort and hotel with a help of his escort at the UN is trying to fool the ignorant American people AGAIN to commit more crimes against humanity to help his son in law. Shame on America that goes sooooooooooo low to implement Zionist policy.
The people of the region NEVER allow a second Israel in Syria or Iraq. YOU, the criminal mass murderers must get lost from Syria and the region NOW.
Down with China and Russia if they sell another country to mass murderers, like Libya, for two bones called concessions. Shame on China if betrays humanity AGAIN.
“This is the only nation in the world which can wipe US off the maps”
You should have started there. Conventional strike capability is besides the point because its pointless, Mr. Latter Day Kutuzov.
The only country that can strike the US by conventional means (and nuclear too) and get away with it is Israel because it would be blamed on somebody else.
Have you tried seeing psychiatrist? May help.
Marcus Crassus had a similar reaction to an attack on children; specifically, his son, Publius, who, at the battle at Carrhae in 54 BC, was captured by the Parthians and returned to his father in pieces, his head on a pike as the Parthians counterattacked General Crassus’s depleted and demoralized forces. https://deadliestblogpage.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/disaster-in-the-desert-parthians-destroy-crassus-army-at-carrhae/
Father Marcus was old and bold and wealthy; hubris led him to ignore sound advice and to reject the Parthian’s offers of a settlement. A member of the Roman triumvirate Caesar – Pompey – Crassus, he felt compelled to match Caesar’s military feats in Gaul; understood the economic constraints Pompey was attempting to resolve — the Roman populace had become accustomed to being provided with bread, and the Empire needed to conquer and secure sufficient grain to satisfy that need. Finally, agitator Cato had just arrived in Rome with a sizable fortune in booty, challenging the greedy Crassus to match-or-fold.
The situations the US involves itself in today are not unique in human history because human nature retains many of the same character traits.
Donald Trump should think again, of Marcus Crassus, and imagine ISIS presenting to him the head of his child, Barron Trump on a pike.
It’s official – the King has consented, Salome has beheaded Steve the Baptist.
Steve Bannon has been removed from the National Security Council. He has been replaced by an operative friend of Ivanka.
The man who had the populist strategy that elected Trump has had his head handed to him by the Jew couple – Ivanka and Jared Kushner.
Trump is surrounded by Jews – we can forget peace in the middle east. We can expect Big Jew economics. We can expect the loss of internet freedom.
The smell neither sarin nor chlorine but BS
To be honest, I can’t even imagine how this apparent complete U-turn could happen without him being blackmailed.
I agree with most of what you say, and can’t dispute your military assessment because it is beyond my expertise. But –
I find the idea of America’s military/political leaders choosing to commit national suicide under such a scenario (Russia destroying America’s military capability and ability to project power outside the USA through conventional means) to be extremely unlikely. Leader may be foolish or short-sighted, but I really doubt they have a Nazi-like or Islamic-like mentality of preferring total national destruction if they don’t have their way. I doubt even the fanatic neocons would feel this way.
(1) The US can wipe the floor with Russia in Syria or anywhere in the Middle East.
(2) Russia can wipe the floor with NATO east and north of the Suwalki gap.
#2 yes
#1 maybe short term outside syria. past short term russia wins.
That’s not true in many circumstances.
Certainly treating someone with liquid sarin on them will get you killed. But why would you treat them? They are dead before they reach medical care. If you are treating someone who has reached medical care alive, they have absorbed a tiny dose, for example by breathing a free droplet of mist in the air, and you are not going to get poisoned secondarily from the sarin that is in their body. It is also usually the case that someone has brought this sick person to the hospital by carrying them. The fact that the person doing the carrying is not dying is some indication that contact with the victim isn’t exposing people to sarin. Also, sarin evaporates from clothing in 30 minutes, so you are at much lower risk when treating someone after that time.
Certainly it’s a brave doctor or soldier who treats people with his bare hands after a chemical weapons attack. Just like the doctors and soldiers who run toward the scenes of car bombings. That’s the kind you find in war zones.
In my comment I assumed not some Russians killed as collateral damage by the USA assaulting Assad, but a US direct attack on and destruction of Russian military forces in Syria such as the naval base at Tartus. I think the odds of this happening are basically zero, but if the USA did this I suspect Russia would retaliate by taking out the nearest and most convenient American bases, which would be in the Baltics (Russia couldn’t really retaliate in the Middle East). This would save face at home, demonstrate to the world that Russia does retaliate and that attacks on Russia have consequences, and perhaps end NATO, because the Western powers, as in 1939, would probably not want to really fight for the sake of some eastern European countries.
“without him being blackmailed” – One resorts to blackmail with people who have integrity and stand for some higher principles. Trump is an opportunist. He will do whatever. He is not the man of your own projections that you casted on him. This commenter I think got him right
http://www.unz.com/isteve/video-bannon-tries-to-advise-trump-on-getting-involved-in-syria/#comment-1825893
Who has access to his ear now counts. It ain’t Bannon anymore who helped to save his campaign by doubling down on the original Trump message that Trump was ready to dilute or even discard. It will be Ivanka, Kushner and many Iagos. Art at #114 above put it really well in terms of Steve the Baptist metaphor. W/o Bannon it’s over.
You mean like the brave medics who arrived at this scene of car bombing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8m_ZfRAtuM
Russia has no conventional means of retaliating in the Middle East. All Russian forces in Middle East can be swarmed and overwhelmed by USA, Turkey and Israel within few hours. Russia will not go nuclear for the sake of Syria. In the end it is all about saving face. Funny, isn’t it? There is nothing tangible there. Saving face for Russian people sake only because beyond Russia nobody really cares about Russia’s face which in the West they think is beyond salvaging anyway. The end of it will be a coup d’etat in Russia by those who think that Russia’s face was not saved enough or by those who think that saving Russia’s face may lead to Russia’s destruction. It will be the latter who pretend to be the former for the people’s sake.
I don’t. Without going deep into, now firmly established, dysfunctionality of the US State, which is horrendously dangerous in itself, the war, and I am not being original here, has the mind of its own once it starts. The war with Russia, if it happens either in Syria or, let alone, in and around Ukraine, will have a very different military and political logic.
So,
But this is a defining feature of, at least, most neocon cabal. But let’s forget about Korea, where MacArthur was forced by Truman out of his position because he wanted to use nukes, same goes for Vietnam, where nuking it was considered. US is a no stranger to this kind of military thinking. What happens if Russia destroys a single Carrier Battle Group, and probability of this is not a zero at all? Do you know what the loss of even single carrier means for US as a whole, forget US Navy. Do not listen to me, read what Admiral Elmo Zumwalt thought about it during and after his tenure as CNO. We can only imagine what pressures will arise. While it is true that neocons are cowards, it is also true that we really do not know what is their threshold of rationality. You have to understand, for decades now US political and military “elite” was formed by this ad nauseam mantra of American exceptionalism in everything. Are you ready to predict the results of this “parting syndrome”? I am not. I can only discuss contingencies and one of them, and I guarantee you–it is being considered in Russia, is precisely of US “top” going completely rogue and insane, not that it is not happening as I type this. This contingency can not and must not be excluded from serious elaborations.
P.S. Lowlife Albright’s desire to sacrifice 500,000 Iraqi children for “democracy” was not an accidental misspeak–this is how many in D.C. think and live. In the end, if not for courageous British General Sir. Jackson, Wesley Clark would start killing Russian paratroopers at Slatina airfield. He issued the orders. Since then things only got worse.
Stop writing crap on the subject you have no idea about.
https://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Engels-2_%28air_base%29¶ms=51_28_52_N_046_12_38_E_
Checking in to say:
False flag. Stay out of Syria.
And what was the alternative, Mr. utu? To have done nothing? To write screeds on the internet as you do? Tell us, please, what would you have had us do? Vote for Hillary? Vote for Bernie? Vote for a fill-in-the-blank Republicrat or Democratican? Put on face masks and break windows?
I don’t see you doing anything to fix things.
Loser? Who is the one claiming to have an answer without providing one? Who does nothing but pretend to know what is right? Who sat back and refused to support the only candidate who at least held some of our views? (Sorry, no, but he indeed has proof going back three decades that his views on trade and his general opinion of politicians are consistent. I won’t buy the predictable response you would have here.)
No matter what happens to my president or to my country, I will be sitting here on my wooded land, drinking single barrel bourbon and smoking cigars, grilling tenderloin, while people like you pretend to be somebody on the internet.
And no, I will not project myself into a candidate and vote for him. I will refrain from voting and enjoy the life I won in the cosmic lottery — while you and everyone like you drowns in the rising brown tide of filth that will cover the Earth.
But thanks for the informative opinion.
That’s going to be quite interesting.
God knows where that will all end up.
Remember little Serbia and August 1914.
“while you and everyone like you drowns in the rising brown tide of filth that will cover the Earth.” – I see that Mr. Deplorable showed his bonafides.
US military record of the last 70 years is rather unimpressive
Right, no way that they match Soviet/Russia’s impressive list of successes like ripping those Afghans a new one for example.
“while you and everyone like you drowns in the rising brown tide of filth that will cover the Earth.” – I see that Mr. Deplorable showed his bonafides.
You are way to emotional for a person who has a good life and enjoys his bourbon in solitude. Perhaps this is just another of your projections of what to means to have a good life. Separate reality form your projections.
I feel the same way. What evil clods rule over us!
Just cannot believe that Assad is that stupid as to do a gas attack at this time. It is beyond comprehension, after staying in power for five years of vicious civil war, and about ready to declare victory, he would never knowingly do this.
This was either a tragic unintended error or a false flag by another party – most likely Israel.
Whatever, the globalist Jews are going to use this tragedy to achieve their long-held goal of breaking up Syria.
Jared and Ivanka Kushner will lead the way.
“There is a literature and a common perception that the Soviets were defeated and driven from Afghanistan. This is not true. When the Soviets left Afghanistan in 1989, they did so in a coordinated, deliberate, professional manner, leaving behind a functioning government, an improved military and an advisory and economic effort insuring the continued viability of the government. The withdrawal was based on a coordinated diplomatic, economic and military plan permitting Soviet forces to withdraw in good order and the Afghan government to survive. The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA)managed to hold on despite the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Only then, with the loss of Soviet support and the increased efforts by the Mujahideen (holy warriors) and Pakistan, did the DRA slide toward defeat in April 1992. The Soviet effort to withdraw in good order was well executed and can serve as a model for other disengagements from similar nations.”
http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/Withdrawal.pdf
All questions to US Army Command And General Staff College in Leavenworth, KS.
Yes that looks like car bomb theatre. I stopped watching when the video said “Boston wasn’t a real explosion.” Just because one thing is fake doesn’t mean everything is.
This ain’t some kind of pissing contest (arbitrated by the Galactic Fraternity of the Orion Arm, maybe?)
Compared to Vietnam, the Soviet record in Afghanistan wasn’t really that bad (and at least the Soviets realized early on that they needed to get out and left behind a friendly regime that lasted some time, and might have lasted longer if not for the dissolution of the Soviet Union – what has NATO achieved so far in Afghanistan, after 15 years?).
And I’d actually go farther than Smoothie, US triumphalism is way overdone even in regard to the 2nd world war, at least concerning the European theatre.
“Just because one thing is fake doesn’t mean everything is.” Correct. And vice versa. And because we have fave events, false flag events and real organic events we must be very careful how we react to any of them, right? We do not want to be played.
When there is a balance of power it’s a very simple zero sum game, whereby (to come to cases) Russia cannot succeed without the US suffering a defeat. Or vice versa. If there is a seeming slide in one power’s prestige, it will start to toy with the idea of applying a bit of military pressure.
But it is, it always was and always will be. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full o’ shit. Another matter, that even in this pissing contest there is a place for professional courtesy and objectivity.
Because a lot of it (not all) is myth. Each time I hear this ad nauseam talk about US soldier “being the best in the world”, my argument is simple–look at Wehrmacht circa 1941-43, then we’ll talk.
If we have never won any wars how did Pax Americana come into being and why are we just now going into the Decline and Fall?
Personal impressions of good will are not a sound basis for building a political movement.
Yes, but that’s not even what I was getting at…while undoubtedly the American contribution in the 2nd world war was important, there’s no doubt in my mind that the Eastern front was decisive (and I’m just old enough to have talked to people who lived through that war, there was never the slightest doubt about that). The way WW2 is commemorated in the US is really strange to me (also odd how the Pacific war seems to have been deemphasized…I suppose because it isn’t sufficiently politically correct nowadays).
Poor Nikki — what about Resolution 242? Is it now 69 U.N. Resolutions that Israel has ignored along with all international law? Does the United States recognize international law Nikki?
Thus far, your comments and representation display you total lack of knowledge. At least consider the pros and cons of situations before forming an opinion. It seems you are regurgitating whatever lies you are told.
Perhaps Trump selected you because you only watch TV and never read books, magazines, etc. You no doubt make Trump feel comfortable with your TV knowledge. It may help to read some State Department cables and emails to learn about United States’ policies. Try not to be discouraged by the fact that most policies are hypocritical where Israel is involved.
This theory doesn’t hold up. Assad and his backers already have blood on their hands. He doesn’t need a new atrocity to cement their loyalty.
shit
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-06/stocks-tank-after-tillerson-warns-russia-coalition-steps-underway-remove-assad
Agree with points 1-4. Point 5 is questionable, at best. More likely impeachment or other political solution.
For a nuclear war to be triggered you would have both the military bosses and the political elite (neocons) to be on board. I doubt that either group would want to see the USA disappear from the Earth just because its conventional military has been wrecked by Russia. Both is even less likely. Neocons are troublesome but they aren’t suicidal fanatics. Homicidal ones, sure.
Neither North Korea/China in the 1950s, nor Vietnam would have been in a position to remove the USA from existence in retaliation for a nuke strike against them. So the situation is completely different from potentially nuking Russia if Russia destroys the US conventional military.
I do see your point, and agree that there is a very high chance of the USA going nuclear if its army was demolished by a country without massive nuclear response capability. Russia is just a different ballgame.
Sacrificing 500,000 Iraqi children is not the same thing as sacrificing 300+ million Americans.
The same reason why the earliest Islamic armies were able to conquer so much land so fast, the Byzantines and the Persians fought a costly war that so badly depleted both sides that it was easy pickings for another force that came along.
“…while in the US there is still a presence that the people rule.”
Not even funny. Kindergarden.
It is not Trump who needs a lesson – it is a set of proverbial Cheneys in the deep state/CIA
Actually, when the US left Vietnam, they left a functioning government and an improving military situation. It was the removal of US air cover and shipments of military equipment at the behest of the Democratic dominated Congress that led to the fall of South Vietnam in 1975. With massive amounts of material shipped in by the Soviets and with air superiority, North Vietnam was able to defeat the quickly depleted South.
So, less than 20 years later, things rather repeated themselves in Afghanistan, although political collapse of the Soviet Union precipitated the latter, not Legislative action.
Your former Soviet Jewish mom forgot to tell you that when Soviets came to Afghanistan, they had built a university in Kabul (still exists) and provided education for the first ever cohort of university-trained Afghan women, including medical doctors. Compare this to a sky-rocketing production of heroin in Afghanistan upon the US “victory” there. Other amazing US achievements include the rise of Al Qaeda and Taliban and the pitiful state of education and health care there.
She is, but I am talking about contingency. Albeit you do make valid points and we are not in disagreement in principle. But that what contingency planning is all about–preparing for different scenarios. Is scenario with going nuclear possible? Absolutely! How probable it is? That’s what General Staffs exist for–to give assessments and give probabilities.
Maybe not, but there are many people who would first consider counter-force. first. Counter-value, that is a different game altogether.
Yes.
I wrote already on Twitter that if Trump does start a war (which could immediately lead to WW3), then I’m With Her.
obvious false flag with clear media collusion
Trump hasn’t done anything
stop being hysterical
National?
The key here is the people deciding don’t see America as their nation.
1) US politics is even more dominated by the banking mafia then the neocons and the banking mafia are preparing to finish off the US and move to China.
2) The banking mafia like to have a single global power they can use as their debt collector and the move to China leaves both US and Russia so from their point of view Russia/US destroying each other is in their interest – apart from the nuke risk.
3) The banking mafia are psychopaths so they judge risk differently.
If Putin wants to react he should go for the banks – an escalating pissing contest with the US is what they want – or more likely what their psycho half wants.
In particular get some tame economists to make the economic case against usury – everyone hates the banks already so all it needs is accredited people making the case against the usury poisoned central banking mafia business model to undermine the current hegemony.
The Internet is in an uproar over the Syrian issue. “The_Donald” on Reddit is full of dedicated Trump supporters asking Trump to be careful about false flags and to stick to his comments from 2013 – when Trump said that Obama should abstain from interfering in Syria.
Very well could be. But European Theater in WW II, of course, is key in US mythology of exceptionalism.
Hey Genius
“Big Jew economics”.
Is this the reason you’re unemployed?
Peace
Sherm
Absolutely. There is no Jewish angle. Pacific theatre does not forwards the Holocaust narrative. American racism is too exposed when dealing with Pacific Campaign. Many, many atrocities. Practically zero Japanese POWs. Towards the end American soldiers were incentivized with ice cream for desert offer for bringing live Japanese for a change to improve statistics.
If we have never won any wars how did Pax Americana come into being and why are we just now going into the Decline and Fall?
Oh my – another diversion hasbara comment away from the current evil created by Israel in the ME.
All of Stockholm DC is abuzz with the Jew Russia big lie and we are picking the bones of WWII – shame.
What matters is the evil of today – not yesterday.
Peace — Art
Well, that just tells us what fools the Ukrainians, the Baltic peoples and East Europeans are.
I’m curious if you could recommend a book sketching out what the “order of battle” would be like in a conventional conflict between NATO and Russia.
Who the hell is that “Coalition”?
USA + Israel + Saudi Arabia/Qatar + France/Germany/UK + stuff like Micronesia?
All of RAPO, I mean NATO, too?
Because it was not important, with the Europe theater won, the Soviet Union rapidly swept through Manchuria with no great setbacks, with enough time the complete invasion of Japan would have been completely feasible. Even with zero US involvement, they would have pushed out Japan completely from China, and even with its full strength navy, it would have eventually overcome by Soviet air power and industrial base that could not be answered by Japan due to its lack of industry and resources.
Even in Europe, the only front that really mattered was the eastern front, all other win/failures of the other fronts were largely determined on what was happening on the eastern front.
Evidently Trump debunked earlier CNN reports about mulling military options and that he spoke about some lawmakers about it. In Russian, but Google Translate will do fine:
http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/4161375
Tillerson’s words are too early to interpret without full context.
right. and…
Subject: Fw: NYTimes.com: Assad’s History of Chemical Attacks, and Other Atrocities (maybe)
Check out the last photo in this jewyorktimes piece, the one which is claimed to be a crater from a Scud Missile, an old Russian missile, not accurate, but deadly of course. A wiki search got this…”Other countries used the imprecise Scud as a crude device for lobbing a ton or two of high explosives somewhere into an opponent’s cities.”
Read more: http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/whats-a-scud-4510864/#lVtSJwJWoWD44QMK.99
Save 47% when you subscribe to Air & Space magazine http://bit.ly/NaSX4X
Follow us: @AirSpaceMag on Twitter
The only way that crater and surrounding proximate area could be the impact spot of a Scud, would be if it was a dud. ” a ton or two of high explosives ” would have leveled a couple square blocks of everything, especially inasmuch as the picture shows low density of lousy buildings.
My expertise is based on training in the army on 105 Howitzers, what people call artillery. Also, normal reasoning comes into play. The article also states that locals said it was a Scud missile. Where are the experts?,
So more fakery in images and text, from the jewspaper of record….all the news that fits the narrative of Bad Assad, Bad Russian, etc.
It is All for Israel, by any means necessary. Let us be clear, Assad and Hizbollah, and Iran, and Hamas, etc….oppose the state of Israel. That is why Assad must be killed. And Trump told us that he was going to be a neutral arbiter in Israel/Palestine. Trump caving in to the jews.
Now Trump is talking about going into Syria. 100 people are killed and we send in the marines. Gas is bad, but so are bullets, and shrapnel, etc. Hysteria over Gas. Sort of like Knives, not guns. Knives are seen as scarier, but they are not as effective as bullets.
Assad would be foolish to gas anybody at this time, when , 1, he is winning, 2, it is bad PR, 3. Trump earlier a few months ago, said No More Invasions, etc..
Sarin, from reading up a bit on wiki, is a liquid and can be delivered by small things like mortars or artillery shells. I watched Tucker Carlson on Fox last night…rolled over by a square-jawed Republican tough guy who declared that “fixed-wing” aircraft were observed at the same time. And Isis etc. who Obongo funded couple years ago for attacks on Syria,. does not have fixed-wing aircraft….Sounds authoritative. Good liar is all this guy is.
Liar in the sense that there is no, even close to 100%, certainty that Assad dun it. We get endless jewstories on the atrocities of Assad, but close to zero stories on the atrocities of Isis and the dozens of jihadist groups, who , if for no other reason than that they are somewhat limited to smaller weapons, wind up killing civilians more, Probably, than Assad.
Plus, to get the emotional brain all charged up….what is worse than Sarin gas?….ooooyeah…getting your head chopped off , and what is worse than that? doing it while you are alive. Now there is some great propaganda material. And, there is some good evidence that the wild and crazy jihadists like to do this, like our closer to home savages…the mexicans.
Assad beheads kids! Sort of like the Incubator Babies of Iraq, the story ginned-jewed up by Tom Lantos, the Jew Congressman from my neck of the woods in SF area. If memory serves. Babies snatched from their incubators and left on the floor to die. What were Saddam’s soldiers going to use the incubators for?
Incubating nerve gas of course. (I always tell you when I am making things up, the last so qualifying )
Trump seems to have rolled over to the jews. Well, I have been saying that Trump is only the first phase of the counter-revolution.
Joe Webb
Forwarded Message —–
From: webfoote41
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:56 AM
Subject: NYTimes.com: Assad’s History of Chemical Attacks, and Other Atrocities
Sent by [email protected]:
Assad’s History of Chemical Attacks, and Other Atrocities
BY RUSSELL GOLDMAN
In six years of war, President Bashar al-Assad of Syria has overseen a campaign of carnage, using both the most modern means and ancient tactics against his people.
Or, copy
you were spot on until this idiocy
and the Japanese weren’t racists?
what about the Nazis? was there any racism there? Or is all racism American racism?
Jesus fucking Christ
ask the Koreans or the Chinese if they ever saw a Japanese racist utu
every nation with a Rothschild central bank
I’d guess he saw the handwriting on the wall that his Presidency couldn’t survive unless he went full neocon. Being victimized by the Deep State can do that to a President, six ways to Sunday.
It’s jaw,jaw, jaw and war, war, war.
America on Deep State autopilot.
Why, are they inviting the Afghans to settle in their countries?
True, but by that time US already lost the will to fight while for Vietnamese it was a matter of national unification. Political and (geo)political dynamics in Afghanistan was very different, not to mention Afghanistan’s ethnic fragmentation. In the end, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, reasons for it, were dramatically different from Vietnam. Islamization of Fergana Valley by mid-1970s was a grave threat, as today’s events demonstrate fully and Russia will one way or another deal with this threat, with which she started dealing since 1979. While “domino” principle was a contrived ideological construct, security of Russian geopolitical belly is not. As General Gromov stated in NYT:
“In fact, we were the first to defend Western civilization against the attacks of Muslim fanatics. No one thanked us. On the contrary, everyone was impeding our actions: The United States, NATO, Iran, Pakistan, even China.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/opinion/12iht-edrogozin.html?_r=0
The difference between two wars is rather startling.
God I hope you’re right
I was planning on leaving these shores if the war hag won, and now I fear Trump too may have been a ruse
if he goes into Syria, then all bets are off, he’s just another Zionist bitch
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VNQGsiP8M
I disagree. If we assume he has previously gassed his own people (which Mr. Karlin seems to believe is in question), there was the international deal where he gave up all his chemical weapons, so maybe there was some flexibility. This attack seals his backers fate: if Assad goes down, all his supporters will go down with him also. All the old fires of hatred have been rekindled, with only Assad to protect the Alawites from being the next Assyrians. A pretty cheap life insurance policy for a NFG leader like Assad!
You would think this would be fairly easy in the US. Several Founding Fathers were not fans of the banks. Patrick Henry, in particular, was not a fan.
Can’t you see Ted Cruz ‘splainin to Lucy that Patrick Henry was a big socialist whom we should ignore?
Here we go again — it is Libya all over again. The lie that Gaddafi was going to massacre Benghazi was all ablaze in Stockholm DC – with the result that Libya was destroyed.
Expect that the same thing is going to happen to Syria over this gas attack business.
The evil of the Jew and their MSM is endless.
Peace — Art
Not from the top of my head. If we are to speak about real war, not some kind of Clanciesque BS such as Friedman’s of STRATFOR fame delusions immediately following Crimea’s return to Russia, in which he described how NATO will be destroying Russian Armed Forces. Let me think about it, I am not ready to suggest yet anything in English worthy of serious considerations. Some information, however, you may find on internet and put together a little bit. I may address this issue eventually in my blog.
A reminder that the commenteriat of unz.com represents 0% of the US population.
Pence was a fantastic choice as VP. I don’t agree with him on much but he reassured traditional republican voters which is what won Trump the election. No Pence, no Trump.
Thanks. Will look forward to it!
yes – hence Ron Paul’s prominence (relatively speaking)
and it needs that analysis from the Right – Leftists going on about the banks won’t work on conservatives
Israel gets away with attacking Syria all the time. As long as russian interests aren’t harmed, ie: killing russians, or causing Syria to be overrun by Jihadis, it’s hard to see why they should respond at all.
I’m optimistic that the US does symbolic bombing in Syria, or Bashar steps down and Maher or some other deputy takes over
while i may agree with you, to be fair it’s not just women. remember bush senior’s ‘babies in the incubators’?
but yes, this woman is extremely vile, though her speech was obviously written by her betters/handlers. we have now just pseudo-attractive, completely vacant, talking heads. she’s on a par with sara palin. but, for men, there’s john mccain, and hosts of others.
women’s proper place is a religious question, i think, and we basically have none now in the west–we’re doomed.
There were alleged chemical (chlorine) attacks occurring for the past week. Also, Hama is not the same as Idlib, where these attacks took place.
So which is it? (2) suggests a false flag (3) suggests a complete fake
Yeah, reality is pretty complicated. Opposition and regime are evil.
……From this dogshit speech:
“There is an obvious truth here, that must be spoken. The TRUTH is, that Assad, Russia and Iran have NO INTEREST IN PEACE. The illigitimate Syrian govt., led by a man with NO CONSCIENCE, has committed untold atrocities against his people…
How many more children HAVE TO DIE before Russia cares? The United States sees yesterday’s attack as a disgrace at the highest level [as an aside, a country ‘sees’ something?]; an assurance, that humanity means NOTHING to the Syrian govt.”
————-AMBASSADOR TO U.N. Nikki Haley, former South Carolina governor and genocidal maniac
(all emphases are hers)
What do you mean? They’re everywhere in the culture. People will do, say, or fuck anyone or anything to get that sweet corporate gig. Corporate culture of whores, spineless godless chickens… Not that I can think of an answer, an out. But it seems: We Need Religion! (Not phony Billy Graham, Pat Robertson swill—true belief. But I don’t believe myself, much as I respect Catholicism pre-1960s)
For one day to day example, who stands up during the Thanksgiving, New Years, etc. football game and rants on about what a moronic waste of time and life it is?
The prospects of a conflagration between the United States and Russia are increasing by the day.”
Or is there a deal between Russia and US? Israel will be allowed to have total control in Syria Lebanon and later Iran US would allow Russia to have total say in Eastern Europe and Ukraine.
UNSC is taking a more measured approach: it is evaluating the evidence.
Dan Joyner’s Arms Control Law blog
https://armscontrollaw.com/2017/04/06/cw-attack-in-khan-sheikhoun-documents-from-the-unsc-debate-on-responsibility/
cross-posted an entry from Dr. J P Zanders’s blog, The Trench.
http://www.the-trench.org
The postings include links to documents being considered by the UNSC and by World Health Organization (WHO).
Nikki Haley is beyond an embarrassment.
She must go.
She is a bloodthirsty monster.
The other day Haley boasted of her success in disrupting a UN conference whose goal is total nuclear disarmament. Haley said she’s “realistic;” pointing to the fact that “North Korea and Iran” are among those calling for total denuclearization, she shrieked, “Of course they want nuclear disarmament, they don’t abide by the rules anyway.”
IN FACT, Iran has been a signatory to the NPT for many years, and is currently under the “most intense scrutiny of any nuclear state ever,” and has been found to be in compliance with its obligations under the NPT and the JCPOA.
Furthermore, Iran was among those states that, in 1995, agreed to an extension of the NonProliferation Treaty in exchange for the promise of a region-wide conference to urge that the Middle East be a Nuclear Weapons Free Zone.
Israel was NOT a party to that agreement, but was most definitely the target of the promised conference.
To date, that conference has not been convened: the USA and Israel object.
The American people have got to rise up and demand that she be replaced with someone of suitable gravitas.
Hey Rurik,
Until we, the American People get ALL the facts straight..and are SATISFIED…we do not want to GO IN.
And we won’t be fooled AGAIN.
Americans should call their representatives and let them know.
After all, there ARE 320 million of US.
…and its OUR blood and treasure !
If you’re a corporate employee, it’s a pyramidal power structure. You wouldn’t dare stick your neck out for any ‘truth’, or you wouldn’t have a job. Fox, NYT, MSNBC have the same interests, and I haven’t checked but may have the same owners. Easy to see how they control talking heads and ‘programming’. A dingbat chickie appointed to read speeches at the UN, written either at the White House or State Department… it’s not so hard to see how that one might be ‘on message’ too. As is all corporate advertising garbage everywhere always. Etc.
The trouble with this is that nobody knows what a world war will look like until it happens (or perhaps a tiny minority get it right, but there’s no way to tell in advance which of the multitudinous minority viewpoints will turn out to have been correct). Consider how the first two world wars were expected to go, contrasted with how they actually went. Then consider that even when things seem to have worked spectacularly well (eg Germany in France in 1940), it turns out they only went that well because a few generals in the field disobeyed orders.
The problem is even greater today with so much untried technology on both sides and no way to predict how these systems will interact in large scale fighting, or what will work and what won’t.
You can go with the manipulative mainstream fairy tales promoted say by the likes of RAND to further establishment or lobby political goals (consider for instance their reassuringly confident speculations as to how safe it will be for the US to go to war with China as long as it does so soon, or their conveniently alarmist speculations about the supposed Russian menace in eastern Europe). Or you can go with anti-establishment views emphasizing how unreliable the military industrial lobby’s claims are and highlighting all the possible wonder weapons the opposition might field. Or you can do the same for the other side’s experts.
But in the end, the only honest truth is that nobody really knows. And while we are all entitled to speculate, it’s sheer dishonesty to claim to have any detailed idea how it will turn out, beyond the general truth that bigger gdp usually wins in the long run (now become rather dubious in the age of the nuclear peace and mutually assured destruction).
Even bare orders of battle tell you little or nothing really useful, because nobody really knows which bits of each force will prove decisively important and which will prove to be irrelevant.
So the only rational answer to the question “should we go to war?” with a rival great power should always be: if you have any choice at all, then no, it’s just too risky.
when Soviets came to Afghanistan, they had built a university in Kabul
Well, that just tells us what fools the Ukrainians, the Baltic peoples and East Europeans are.
Why, are they inviting the Afghans
No, they are forgoing having the Russians build MIT on the Baltic and CALTECHSKI in Warsaw.
This just happens to be the 100y anniversary of the US entry into the European War (aka. falsly labeled “WWI”).
A nice reminder that things can go wrong:
https://youtu.be/FTupV8o3mW4?t=3143
Agree option didn’t work, but – I agree with this.
Tillerson has just made a statement that Assad must go. Sorry to break the news for you. Trump is losing ground to the warmonger deep state fast or sinking into swamp faster than sinking into quick sand.
Saker puts its best:
It’s over, lube up, hunker down.
Offensively low-brow and loud theater performance, indeed…
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks (loudly and incessantly) like a duck…
I wonder —
WHERE ARE THE WOMEN?
Will the Women take to the streets in their thousands and millions and demand NO MORE WAR?
Will the Women gaze upon the member of their fair sex who represents the American people to the international community and demand that NIKKI HALEY has to go?
[Does any other nation have the same tragic record of women in power as the USA?
Are American women proud of Madeleine Albright? Samantha Power? Susan Rice? Condoleeza Rice? Hillary Clinton? ]
“In fact, we were the first to defend Western civilization against the attacks of Muslim fanatics. No one thanked us. On the contrary, everyone was impeding our actions…”
These are the striking words.
Next time the alleged American patriots Graham and McCain open their mouths to pontificate about “war on terror” and “support the troops,” they should be hit back with Gromov’s words. Wonder what Sarkozy, Holland, Merkel and other EU warriors would say about the quote, considering that the US/Israel’ vassals in Europe have opened wide the doors to Europe for Muslim fanatics. But before that, the US/Israel & vassals made it sure that enough innocent victims were slaughtered and enough cities and villages were destroyed in the Middle East to generate a sizable army of the fanatics.
Eretz Israel promises to be the most expensive project for the humanity.
Most people outside Russia may not care about Russia’s fate, but I am an American and I do.
Moreover, Russia’s reluctance to back down in Syria is not just about saving face. Putin et al. may have concluded, wisely, that any sign of weakness in any theater will embolden the US and NATO to become even more belligerent and station even more troops and weapons to encircle Russia on its borders. “We” are not giving Russia many palatable choices.
You are unduly optimistic to be so confident that you will be safe for long.
Those hordes of which you speak have things called automobiles, and many of them will leave the collapsing, starving cities looking for water, food, and just plain victims.
Having said that, you are wise to at least be as far away from the big hostile cities as you can, and you’ll have a far better chance in the short term than we will.
God bless you and good luck to all of us in the balkanized violent future we seem to face….
I was ignorant of this assessment, as are almost all Westerners, I’m sure.
Your last comment is certainly sound. If Germany weren’t fighting on two very major fronts, it could have fought the USA and its European allies to a stalemate at the least, and probably prevailed.
I’m not sure that Americans or Europeans would have been any worse off if that had happened instead of the horror that did happen.
Indeed. As it happens, I live in DC, so I have no Senator and my Rep. has no vote, but I can call the White House, and I encourage anyone who has representation to get busy. And after that, we may need to do more, like in 2013.
White House: 202-456-1414
Congress members House and Senate: 202- 224-3121
Here’s a call to action:
MoonofAlabama has an intriguing theory:
Based on the knowledge that Russia formulated a statement whereby West Jerusalem is recognized as the Jewish capital, MoA asks what Netanyahoo must have traded for that huge Get.
In the same conversation,
MoA’s speculation:
If so, what posture will Trump take; what will he get in the bargain, and how will the US Congress be made to get in line? Bob Corker and of course Mr. & Mrs. Lindsay G. McCain have already beat war drums.
re Calling the White House: Pat Lang’s blog urged readers to call their representatives & the White House.
Congress is leaving town for a two week break.
I called the White House at ~ 4:20 EST.
A recorded message informed me the White House was closed for the day, call back tomorrow. There was no opportunity to record a message.
Israel, the privileged nation.
One very real reason why American kids may once again be thrown under a bus in the Middle East, this time Syria, is to ensure that Israeli kids continue to be born with silver spoons in their mouths.
FTW.
I voted for Trump. Not because I believed he was going to change things, but because I wanted to help repudiate the mainstream media’s control over Americans. And we did.
Did I think Trump’s election was a change of regime? No, Like Linh Dinh I believe the neocons (and we know who they are) would never let a real outsider be elected.
It’s my belief that the same people who did 911 are still running things. These folks know that like the long serving governments of banana republics they can never let go of the reins of power. For if they actually lost control of government their lives would be in danger by a new regime accessing their secret criminal deeds. As many folks before me have said we have not had a real change of regime since Kennedy was murdered.
I think that the only way a new regime will come into power in the US is when we get a massive bloody nose at the hands of a powerful adversary. Maybe it will take a nuclear war and if that is the case, so be it. At that point the mindless lumps that make up so much of America will either get rid of these traitors or they will perish. And then again maybe that won’t work either.
Therefore, I hope that the US at the demand of the neocons attacks Syria and that Russia responds by going to war with the US. That may be unlikely but I see that as best chance of the US getting that bloody nose that will make Americans pay attention to the traitorous course their government is on.
I had to look up Suwalki Gap, Anatoly!
Why do you believe that the US will prevail in the Middle East? Logistics?
In what scenario a Russia – USA conflict does not go nuclear?
fuck
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/us-military-has-launched-more-50-than-missiles-aimed-at-syria-nbc-news.html
You stole my thunder.
It’s official. Trump has now been baptized into neoconservative fundamentalism. Oh, and I’m now a former Trump supporter.
It’s nearly impossible to get rid of the neocons. They’re deeply entrenched in the permanent government and in the deep state. It would take a real internal coup to neutralize them. And I’m afraid Trump is too old for the job and Ivanka, daddy’s little girl and his only weakness, and his son-in-law are the neocon Trojan horse inside the WH.
If you want to read a popular treatment of the Soviet experience in Afghanistan, look up “Afgantsy. The Russians in Afghanistan 1979-1989” by Rodric Braithwaite (former British ambassador to Russia and somewhat of a Russophile). It’s an illuminating contrast to the Rambo interpretation of that war.
Hey Sherm,
Rush over to the Golan – the US government is killing Arabs for you.
Fresh Arab blood man – hurry hurry!
p.s. What pride you must have in your US Jew cousins.
Oh great, America’s psychopathic elite starts another Mideast war.
F*ck Trump…just as bad as Clinton.
Women in the workplace, particularly in the higher rungs of the ladder of power, turn into prostitutes. Because they have nothing else to offer.
me too
To state the obvious, it does not appear that Putin is rolling over on this murderous charade-first, the call with netenyahoo (chill) and now this report: “95% of terrorist acts are orchestrated by the cia.” One could argue with his percentage but hard to argue with the overall thrust of his comment:
http://novorossia.today/putin-95-of-world-terrorist-attacks-are-orchestrated-by-the-cia/
Impeach Trump. He just attacked Syria.
It is 9:49pm and Trump has just attacked Syria—-Screw YOU Trump. I was a diehard supporter. You were pro-Russian and against intervention. SCREW YOU. I’m not voting for you ever again. You are an idiot. Screw YOU Trump. You are a retard. You are only a puppet of the CIA/Soros Globalist crowd. Screw you. Go to Hell Trump.
People all over the world need regular Americans to call the White House and Congress. Unz is full of bright men and women who can influence their neighbors. “Be not afraid”.
Yes, I understood what you meant.
OMG,
Is Trump working for ISIS Now ?
Is it possible that “Trump the Great” has become a lowly ISIS stooge ?
Has Trump the Great become “Trump the Stooge” ?
Not the reason we elected him…..to become a stooge for ISIS .
No sir, ……….Not by long shot .
Shameful !
Our President has become an ISIS stooge…..Sad day for the USA !
Very sad.
May God help us all.
Putin couldn’t have said that, especially for some media.
And me.
Was Trump a neo-con all along or does he think starting WW3 over a false flag will save his faltering presidency?
F*ck him. He obviously doesn’t understand or care why we voted for him.
I couldn’t agree more Alex
I’m feeling very dejected right now
a lot of people are gloating at me saying ‘seeeeeeee?”
and I guess they have that right, but I’m just sort of numb
The bombing of Syria has already began. Ziocons are victorious. It is impossible to reason with likes of Graham and McCain – they are cognitively deficient.
Fuck Trump. Fuck America. I’m so sick of Washington’s addiction to war.
There are more to it than just Graham and McCain: Mattis and McMaster are the ones who “advised” Trump on “military options”. Well, they advised him, alright.
Trump is a toy of ziocons.
“A Pentagon official said about 50 Tomahawk cruise missiles were fired from Navy destroyers in the eastern Mediterranean at a Syrian air base.”
And no, I checked, it’s not April 1st. The buffoon in the White House actually murdered members of the Syrian armed forces in an open act of illegal aggression, with the pretext mere (at best) unproven allegations of a few people having been killed by unfashionable methods in the midst of a civil war.
Shame on the US, shame on Trump, and shame on Republicans. And let’s hear no more Republican shite talked against Obama, whom Trump has now demonstrated to have been ten times the president Trump is. And I say that as someone who would have voted for Trump if I were American and who celebrated his election.
Looks like the world is faced with Bush II (the village idiot President) all over again.
I have an important question I think. Was Bannon sidelined before the news of the chemical weapon attack in Syria or after?
Bannon obviously would be against any shenanigans they are doing in Syria now. Bannon arranged a meeting of Tulsi Gabbard (who has a very strong anti intervention and anti meddling in Syria position) with Trump. Bannon loves Tulsi Gabbard, so he tried. But Trump opted for individual of Nikki Haley ilk instead. What a shame!
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/307106-bannon-set-up-trump-gabbard-meeting
So my thinking is that if they took Bannon out of the loop before the gas attack they knew of the gas attack ahead of time.
Hillary Clinton would have done the same thing. In other words, Trump is no different from her or the rest of the Swamp.
“But evil people and impostors will go from bad to worse as they deceive others and are themselves deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and found to be true, because you know from whom you learned it.” Timothy 3:13-14
Such a sad day…same as it ever was. Time to set sights on things closer.
Trump will find the days ahead lonely; he needs to get a pet dog, ASAP.
Yes, Mattis and McMaster are Cheney clones.
Most likely, the Russians will try to contain themselves to the utmost. Not only because they do not want to enter the US-initiated WWIII, but also because they do not want to show their new gadgets too early.
Ziocons & oilmen have united to get their way. On a cue from Fed reserve.
Fuck is right.
However, this isn’t going to go well and I predict Trump starts blaming other people early and often.
Instead of a lot of bullshit oratory, Trump says something like …
“We gotta do something”
This was the least convincing argument for War I have ever heard. Oh yea … he already started blaming Obama as a ‘Pussy’ for not doing it earlier.
Plus, consistency isn’t a strong suit either.
And this won’t be popular. Another thing that Trump craves.
Yet. Yet …
I am just grasping at straws here. Just saying that Trump screwed the pooch. Yes.
But the future? I dunno.
But Obama didn’t, and he was under the same pressure to “do something”. We now know beyond reasonable doubt that Obama was a better president and a better man than Trump is.
What’s almost the worst part of it is that it genuinely looks as though Trump actually changed his mind (or had it changed for him) over the “chemical attack”. Alleged or not, that’s not the kind of trivial emotive fluff that leaders should be making decisions on war and peace over. It looks like Trump really is the airhead he was always portrayed as, but some of us hoped he wasn’t. And please don’t bother trying to claim that his gratuitous overnight double reversal of policy was some kind of masterful deception to make the Syrians lower their guard.
America is fully controlled by the folks who control our money supply. Wars (for Zionism) will continue as long as this does not change. Graham, McCain, and now Trump exposed, all puppets of a greater power.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/SMALL_assadhoax2.jpg
It is feasible that the attack will spell the end of Israel in a sense that the stench from the moral cadaver Eretz Israel will eventually make the whole project utterly repulsive to the majority of civilized human beings.
… same could be said about the US.
Trump was not given authority by Congress to use military force against the Assad regime so he is now a war criminal. Worse, there’s been no formal investigation of the chemical attack and it’s all based on allegations and photos of dead children. Our intelligence agencies and Israel said Assad was guilty and we know they don’t have any private agendas (yeah right).
It pains me to say this, but I almost wish Obama was back in office as much as I hated him since his skin color insulated him from a lot of criticism and attacks if he chose to keep us out of war which he largely did the last two years.
The preceding commenters have put you well in your place, if only you’d stay there. You could spend some time reading The Art of War. The very best military leaders are so good they never have to fight.
The Russians certainly were effective when it came the Chechens and to Georgia. Ukraine has not fared well either. All of those conflicts were provoked by the ZUSA and what have the American people gained from it?
“American hero, Zbignew B, came up with the idea of the plan to aid in giving the Soviets a bloody nose in Afghanistan, but it hasn’t worked out very well has it? Some fine young American lives were just wasted in Afghanistan and Iraq, along with masses of expensive equipment and trillions of dollars that would have been put to better use in the US.
Your attempt at chest thumping is better suited to an ape.
He should be impeached. He won’t be for this, but he will get no sympathy from me, for one, when the neocons and Israel lobbyists who whispered warmongering words into his ears hang him out to dry, in due course.
Terrorized Stockholm DC is overjoyed – he has joined – Trump is now one of them – he is now a globalist! All hail the globalist president of the world.
The Jew globalist Deep State rules. Happy days, no more “America First.”
Art
p.s. Fox Jews is having a circle jerk – they are ecstatic – WAR WAR WAR – ratings ratings ratings!
Trump’s twin from 2013
https://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/trump.jpg
I doubt it – not just over this. Israel has very, very effective stench hiders in the form of near infinite amounts of dollars and very, very well placed “sympathisers” throughout the US sphere media and political high ground.
Being victimized by the Deep State can do that to a President, six ways to Sunday.
True. It’s just sad, though and very disappointing and quite scary. The Deep State is very strong and very powerful.
Israel lobbyists who whispered warmongering words into his ears hang him out to dry
Spell that Ivanka and Jared Kushner!
All respectable people in America adore war. Trump is quickly becoming respectable too:
https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/850173417823367168
https://twitter.com/vdare/status/850179863873024000
Trump made all sorts of Christian noises as he explained his decision.
What about Russians? What Putin is going to do? I presume that his electorate expects him to do something as well as his allies or will Russia accept American narrative that Assad did it and he has only himself to blame and next they will withdraw from Syria?
Russia has no conventional force striking capability to match the US in the Middle East. Would he go nuclear?
IMHO, I am afraid that Putin is finished. He will be out of power within six months.
BTW, I was hoping that it would not come to that that soon on account of the China’s President visit with Trump.
Yes. It appeared Shepherd Smith was stroking himself on camera he was so excited that tomahawk missiles were fired at Syria. Homosexuals are sure a strange lot. They’re supposed to be effeminate and peaceful but many are full of hatred and love to see people suffer.
Hey utu,
I didn’t put those pieces together, so thanks for the excellent analysis.
Peace.
If that was the good twin the bad Trump twin killed him and hid the body. Or Trump just underwent a major lobotomy within the last 48 hours.
It is disgusting that anyone would view war as a way to make money.
You are correct that the Israel lobby and neocons will hang him out to dry at some point like they did GW Bush when things start going South. Trump will then hold his stupid rallies to get back in the good graces of his supporters hoping they have short memories, but it will be too little, too late.
It’s a sad night, Rurik, granted.
But now it seems to me it was not Trump who won the election. The deplorables did. He was the occasion, you see, of bringing you all together. And there have not been better fighters in the recent history of the West. Can you doubt that?
And it is now a time to come together and flood the Trump admin with your opposition to war. That will give him pause, and arm those (Bannon?) that do not agree with this murderous path.
Ron Unz is good at organizing signature drives. Will he help? Can other sites such as this be used?
Hey, sorta like corpses gassed with Zyklon B! Wait, wait, I can’t say that.
Can’t we do better than a link to a Tweet?
Irrelevant, really. Haley’s performance was probably genuine. If it was a FF, why would anyone tell her? That would be stupid. (Though I can sorta see it, if the regime is just pointing fingers, sans evidence)
Look, this is part of why I don’t go around screaming “false flag! false flag!” all the time; because when something comes along that might actually be an important false flag, I haven’t burned up all my credibility on silly shit.
Because let’s face it, the first thing someone who pays a bit of attention and doesn’t drink anyone’s Kool-Aid thinks when he hears “yeah Assad just gassed the shit out of civilian populations” is, “why in God’s name would he do that?” He seemed to be winning, and the US had no good reason to intervene. This gas attack would seem to serve rebel/Zionist/Neocon/Sunni-Saudi interests, not Assad/Russian/Iranian interests. So it’s a prime candidate for a false flag. Meaning, first thing I want to do when I get wind of it is to start looking for hinky shit.
It could just be a false narrative, spun out of a bombed chemical facility as mentioned above, or a rebel attack. A true-blue false flag ginned up by American operatives would seem to be well to the back of the plausibility line.
Yeah, it’s totally possible that Assad did this. But not particularly plausible. Sort of like how suicide is possible, but people tend not to do it. And when they do, we like to ask “why” and delve into the issue, until we’re satisfied that there was a good reason.
It makes way more sense that someone else did this, and Assad is being blamed. The whole action-reaction took how many hours? The incident occurred, and then Trump bombed Assad like 24 hours later? Syria’s a warzone and a shithole generally, but we know to a moral certainty that Assad did this, to the extent that we immediately launch missile strikes? To say this all smells fishy is an understatement. And keep in mind, I might as well be the resident GOPe patriotard, in this corner of the web.
Indeed.
Projection. The odds of Israel getting away with it (by someone else being blamed) are far higher than for any other country. It’s definitely plausible. It would very likely be found to be a “false flag blamed on Israel by [scapegoat here].”
That you reject this out of hand just speaks poorly of you.
Agreed. Objectively I might like someone like, you know, Ron Unz as VP. But that ain’t happening last year.
I wrote a very detailed blog post in which I examine the evidence, compare that situation with what happened in August 2013 after the chemical attack in Ghouta and conclude that people shouldn’t jump to conclusions: http://necpluribusimpar.net/chemical-attack-syria/. Please read it and share it if you think it’s interesting.
I’m going to try really really hard to look on the bright side here. Although, at this point I think it 50/50 he will be impeached by the end of Summer as like Ann Coulter said if his base abandons him, he will be taken out by a papercut.
So in conclusion, there is still a slim chance (I give it 1/3) this might not be as terrible as it seems right now.
I have my fingers crossed, but unfortunately, I don’t think this will end well.
I am not an expert, but I doubt that Putin would initiate a nuclear strike. He is patient and prudent enough to wait for a less bloody solution. As for regime change in Russia – not likely. How to explain it in a delicate manner… Russian federation is not infested with zionists in the high places (Russia is not a host for the parasitoid, thanks to the massive Jewish emigration to Israel, Germany, and the US). The impatient and ambitious Jews like Khodorkovsky, Kasparov, Nemtsov have never been particularly popular among the general population; for instance, Nemtsov had 2% approval rating (margin of error) at the time of his demise. Also, apart from the obvious moral malformations like Anna Nemtsova and Michael Weiss, many Russian Jews are decent and wonderfully educated people who understand the behavior of the arch of justice.
For the world at large the greatest problem today is the ZUSA’s disregards for the laws – all of them. The empire of Fed Reserve is a dangerous predator that is not interested in such trifles as human dignity, justice, and the future of humanity. Something is deadly wrong with the ziocons. As if the nature, while freely experimenting, has created a group of humanoids devoid of humanness. They are a deadly danger for all of us. They are vicious parasitoids.
In one attack,the focus on O Reily ( to please Trump and Fox ) and on S Rice ( to please Democrats and the handlers of Clinton ) has shifted away .
It is interesting the visceral anti muslim stance of Bannon and of Flynn was not enough for them to survive because it is not the Islam but their goal of bringing nationalism ,bringing Christianity and claiming the rightful place for the native white religious people which cost them their powers.
It was one attack with a specific target. Apparently Russians were at the base, but Russia was warned in advance, giving the Russians a chance to clear out (Mattis was very much against Rusians getting killed as collateral damage). Were there Russian air defense systems there? If so, could they have been effective in such circumstances, and were they?
Fox news said Russia wasn’t warned in advance. Hopefully Fox was wrong.
Correct. Islam is just a tool.
Trump Has Surrendered. Will Putin Be The Next To Surrender?
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/04/06/trump-surrendered-will-putin-next-surrender/
Trump is losing ground so fast, Tillerson was forced to make a complete U-turn in 48 hours! That being said, scores of Western politicians told president Assad he “must go”. Simply repeating this mantra yet again will not make him go away.
Very good argument.
The entire war in North America is: Hitler wanting to kill Jews and the need to stop this — and to stop right wing ‘Hitler-like’ behaviour and thinking once and for all.
That’s it.
It’s just a simple-minded morality play to help make people behave in the way jewish power wants them to. Beyond that it serves no purpose to understand or remember it at all.
Good God. Did this just happen?
Right. Everything is Hitler, Auschwitz. Normally used just use to keep the masses fat and dumb. Trump didn’t get the memo that it’s more effective as rhetoric than action.
We supported Trump to get away from this…
Dangerous, Reckless, Disgraceful.
From the article:
Speaking at a behind closed doors forum for the highest echelons of government and staff in his home city of St. Petersburg, Putin responded to questions about the metro blast by pointing out who is responsible for the vast majority of world terror attacks: the U.S. deep state, and the radical Islamic groups they sponsor to destabilize key regions in the world.
Well, it is coming from a site favorable, maybe even controlled, by Russia. So, the common conclusion , which I do not buy, is that it is fake news or simply propaganda.
Problem is the American public has a totally warped understanding of what the 2nd world war was like…for everyone else involved it was a catastrophe, but for Americans it’s a feel good story one can feel nostalgic about, their foundation myth for their supposed exceptionalism and proof of their ever-lasting benignity.
The fact that the US mainland (apart from the south during the civil war) has never been on the receiving end of modern warfare probably explains a lot about Americans’ disturbing willingness to use armed force on even the most bizarre pretexts.
Have to say I’m thoroughly disgusted with this by now.
Is it possible that the false flag gas attach was launched just two days before President Xi visit on purpose to humiliate him by conducting the attack on Syria during a dinner?
Xi is the monkey while Putin is the chicken.
Don’t you see that Trump is done with you. He does not need those who voted for him because he would be against the System, the Deep State or whatever phantasies they projected on him. Most people who voted for him love the Deep Sate. They love wars when they can watch them on TV. You way overestimate Americans’ moral integrity. Believe me that after this criminal, illegal attack on Syria Trump approval ratings will go up. TV networks will be friendly to him. He is on board with the Deep State. He will be forgiven for the past misdeeds and thing will be forgotten. No more Russian angle undermining him. But at the same time no more digging into Obama and Susan Rice, right?
I am not an expert, but I doubt that Putin would initiate a nuclear strike. He is patient and prudent enough to wait for a less bloody solution.
Annamaria,
The Russians are a worthy enemy because they are not crazy – they do not go off the deep end – they live to fight another day. Example: The Cuban missile crisis.
Russia will not be the first to go nuke.
Peace — Art
p.s. The most dangerous people are the Israelis and their nukes.
“Russia’s acquiescence will destroy the image of Russian power…”
This idea comes up again and again but it has little sense. What if Russian federation is not interested in creating an image of power? Moreover, the insistence on a Fifth column’ having some special might in Russia (which supposedly results in timidity of the Russian government), also does not sound right. What if Russian government prefers to follow a path of decency? – by being honest and behaving in civilized manner…
There are different ways to be powerful. It is not for nothing that the US’ deciders have unleashed the presstituting MSM against the supposedly fake news coming from alternative media. The RF has been winning the information war by being truthful and by following the international law.
We live, unfortunately, in the interesting times. Today, Russia and China represent builders whereas the ZUSA represent destroyers. (The EU population would prefer to join the builders, but the destroyers have highjacked the EU government). The ZUSA deciders are duplicitous and merciless – look at the images of dead children shown by Mrs. Haley. The ZUSA has been slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings in the Middle East, including tens of thousands healthy babies and children, all in the name of Israel, oil, and Fed reserve. Imagine how many parents in the Middle East saw their children maimed and shredded to pieces: These bags with the shredded flesh of children is the true image of ZUSA.
Don’t you think that the imperial wars and subservience to ziocons during the last 16 years have demoralized the US population? The MSM could squeal non stop about bad Russians destroying the US citizens’ trust in the US government, but this is not going to change the fact that there is no government for citizens in the US but a war-profiteering machine in service of .0001%.
I guess Pres. Trump has forgotten all about “fake news” now that he’s got bogus intelligence.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/russia-accuses-donald-trump-of-being-too-hasty-in-response-to-syria-gas-attack-20170406-gvfjuv.html
– Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor –
Bayoneted Belgian Babies strike again.
100th Anniversary of U.S. Declaration of War Against Germany, April 6, 1917.
The evil is winning.
Where is SmoothieX12 to explain to us all about those wonderful conventional weapon Russian capabilities in the Middle East that were not used? What was the wisdom of not using them? And what are the consequences for Russia and Putin? Where is the valiant former officer of the Red Army who always can explain everything she well?
now you can be hysterical
Looks like it was a one of and self limiting. Still, the fact that it’s taken Trump less than three months to “cuck” is really quite impressive. I bet peoples’ opinions on Obama round here have been raised a bit.
Trump is now pretty much confirmed as an American Boris Johnson; charismatic, will say and do “outrageous” and silly things to get elected, but has no motivation beyond self advancement and, once in office, will take the path of least resistance changing nothing.
That’s not a deal; that’s just a delay until the eventual neocon attack on Russia.
Just like Russia not using her capabilities to prevent the Turks shooting down the Russian plane defeated the Russian intervention in Syria more than a year ago. Oh wait …
i’m leaning that way.
if the neocons / banking mafia are going to start ww3 eventually anyway then might as well get it over with.
It could have been a con or it could be they got to him via Ivanka – she’s clearly his weak spot.
I’m not really dejected. European civilization (and the people who built it) are only going to survive the current chapter if enough of them are red-pilled in time and that hasn’t changed. It was always going to be difficult. The main thing about the Trump candidacy was the media’s anti-Trump hysteria made that process a little easier.
C’est la vie.
good point
Only over Syria, everything else he did was bad. And if it had been Serbia instead of Syria, white and christian, would he have held back then? I doubt it.
The more America acts like it’s ruled by a cabal of mad dogs the more Russians will cling to Putin.
Wouldn’t you?
Here we go. As USA launched cruise missiles at Syria it is not theory anymore.
I know Russia is patient but crazies like USA often takes it for weakness. If people think that being patient and wise will stop crazy from doing next logical steps. It won”t work and unfortunately Russia almost never was able to avoid confrontation especially with this kind of lunatics.
Regarding Trump. I was telling form the go it was all wishful thinking. I did listen to him and he stated he would start dong things without announcements like moving troops and obviously now shooting. I believe he is far more dangerous than Obama and Hillary because he is ego maniac and not very bright man quite frankly. He has no idea what he is getting into.
The big question now is that will the US cruise missile strikes against Syrian military continue? If so, then Russia will have to face some really hard choices.
why bother?
that’s not where the power lies.
call Jewish community centers.
United Nations and World Health Org. opened formal investigation on Apr 5
https://armscontrollaw.com/2017/04/06/cw-attack-in-khan-sheikhoun-documents-from-the-unsc-debate-on-responsibility/
‘Hillary Clinton would have done the same thing. In other words, Trump is no different from her or the rest of the Swamp.’
Exactly. And…
Newsflash–Trump is VERY GOOD FRIENDS with the Clintons.
Another newsflash–It’s all FAKE (oh shock, oh horror, oh no!)
Anyone who ever thought otherwise may, one hopes against hope, once and for all STOP BEING SO FUCKING STUPID—–EVERY SINGLE FUCKING FOUR YEARS!!!!!!
Yes it’s fake news.
http://www.unz.com/forum/putin-95-of-world-terrorist-attacks-are-orchestrated-by-the-cia/#comment-1827588
Maybe people aren’t all “SO FUCKING STUPID—–EVERY SINGLE FUCKING FOUR YEARS!!!!!!”, maybe a lot of people who had given up hope years ago thought the US could produce a candidate to fulfil the basic requirements set out in this tweet?
https://twitter.com/vdare/status/850204632118775810
It’s your country, not mine. The rest of us just have to figure out how to live with a hyperpower that clearly cannot reform itself.
America’s psychopathic elite
I have come to expect a little more than this in your comments.
Speak loudly, carry a big stick.
When the going gets tough …
Wouldn’t it be interesting if the neocons now came up with proof that the “chemical attack” was false or or a false flag and then impeached Trump for an unconstitutional act of war?
Sorry, but there’s obviously something deeply wrong with people like McCain, Graham, Rubio and all the rest of the demented war-mongers Americans elect as their representatives.
But if it makes you happy, America’s European vassals who have all voiced their support are pretty disgusting as well.
April 07, 2017 Pentagon Trained Syria’s Al Qaeda “Rebels” in the Use of Chemical Weapons
The Western media refutes their own lies
http://www.globalresearch.ca/pentagon-trained-syrias-al-qaeda-rebels-in-the-use-of-chemical-weapons/5583784
“call Jewish community centers.”
Agree.
1.I know that you are a hysterical troll. But let’s start with this:
http://members.home.nl/7seas/radcalc.htm
If you don’t understand what it is, which you don’t, refer yourself to basic physics. I don’t expect you to know the difference between low flying targets and what are the “threatening directions” (ugrozhaemye napravlenia) aka missile-threatening (raketo-opasnye) directions. I am not interested discussing with you any capability since you do not have even a rudimentary, let alone good level, grasp of how any capability works and how it is incorporated in tactical and operational requirements. Basically, I responding not to your gibberish, but for people who read this.
For those fools who are still into this S-300, S-400 shit–those systems in Syria not to defend SAA–they are there to defend Russian military contingent against any attack from the air. Those are primarily:
a) for monitoring Syria’s airspace;
b) to defend Khmeimim Air Base.
SAA was given, for what is called object AD, a number of Pantsir AD complexes, which no doubt contributed to this rather pathetic performance by Tomahawks. SAA also has older S-200 and even S-75 which could be a threat to some aerial targets.
This all will have co0nsequences and very unpleasant ones for US. Russia’s shutting down “deescalation” link with US forces in area is a good indicator that Mattis amd McMaster, if they want to implement some suicidal plan, will have to deal with a number of contingencies they most likley do not understand nor are capable of calculating. At this stage, Trump is merely a stooge.
You may continue to post here but I would say I’d rather concentrate on writing some productive things than responding to your melodramatic incompetent shit.
Absolutely correct!
That was the Deep State agenda all along and DT being goaded into it successfully! The actual target was Russia all along with it’s GAZPROM providing energy for Europe while the Deep State needed the pipeline built from Qatar all the way into Europe needing Syria to accomplish that goal ergo the framing of Assad using Sarin when it was the Deep State providing their rebels said chemical weapons.
The Deep State accomplished their goal via false flag and DT helped that agenda along.
Reuters also confirmed that the Russians were warned, and that the missiles targeted parts of the base where it was believed there were no Russians:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-notice-idUSKBN1790AI
This strike doesn’t seem to be that huge of a deal. Throughout the campaign Trump was condemning Obama for being “weak” and doing nothing when civilians were gassed in Syria while he was president. So Trump felt obligated to show that he wasn’t Obama. He did so in a way that was limited (one air strike) and was careful to try to avoid hitting the Russians.
Hopefully this doesn’t go further.
American political class, in general, and media as a whole (with some important but minor exceptions) are not normal people.
And not for that day and hour alone were the mind and conscience darkened of this man on whom the responsibility for what was happening lay more than on all the others who took part in it. Never to the end of his life could he understand goodness, beauty, or truth, or the significance of his actions which were too contrary to goodness and truth, too remote from everything human, for him ever to be able to grasp their meaning. He could not disavow his actions, belauded as they were by half the world, and so he had to repudiate truth, goodness, and all humanity.
Leo Tolstoy, War And Peace, Chapter XXXVIII.
You will know with what to substitute words “man” and “he”.
P.S. I agree with your point about US and warfare–US doesn’t know what war is in general, top-bottom. I write about this for years now. No American military man or woman know what it is to lose someone home as a result if hostile actions.
So is it like in that Philip K. Dick story, “The Father Thing”?
http://sickmyduck.narod.ru/pkd081-0.html
So…
The implication is good jamming and flying lead capabilities?
It reminds me of the times the US tried European-theater below-radar treetop-level attack on an Iraqi airbase during Gulf War 1 (or was it Gulf War 2? Time passes so quickly). “We assumed the Iraqi AA battery barrels would melt. They didn’t”. The US didn’t try a treetop-level attack after that.
are not normal people.
You and german reader are mistaken. They are completely normal. To say these things rhetorically or hyperbolically is okay. It is a mistake to think and analyze based upon the assumption that they are actually mentally deranged. This is the same mistake that people make when they say, “Stalin was a madman, Hitler was a madman, etc.”
I appreciate your analyses and receiving the benefit of your knowledge of military issues so please keep it up. I don’t even mind wading through all of the pom poming for Russia to get to it. 🙂
Judging by the excellent state of runway and “unexpected” dispersion of strikes NOT on runway one has to make a conclusion that GPS could have been “slightly off” on the terminal. It looks rather remarkable on the video of Russia’s MOD. I can only speculate on the wok of Pantsirs though.
Trump could not have led the Republicans in Congress, or even his Vice-President and Chief-of-Staff, if he had not “sent a message” to Putin and Assad by launching such an attack. Trump has also bought himself some time and goodwill from the media and Democrats by killing some Arabs. That’s how much the Washington consensus loves being at war.
“Trump has also bought himself some time and goodwill from the media and Democrats by killing some Arabs.”
And lost his base in the process. He won by opposing the media and the establishment; it doesn’t make sense to now curry favor from them. The more logical explanation is that he’s a moron who agrees with the last person to talk with him. Since he’s surrounded himself with neocons, we get George W. Bush’s foreign policy. Bush’s approval collapsed even before the housing market. Watch for Trump’s to do the same if he continues implying that he’s going to take out the Syrian president and/or invade.
Sorry, but it is idiotic to forget the previous election’s broken promises and think we’ve finally got a savior every single time. Clinton–the Man from Hope, Bush–pretending to be a born again Christian who stood for the values of decent Americans, Obama–simply Hope (and oh, was he black? I hadn’t noticed), now Trump–he’s going to, what else? Make America Great Again, a slogan like the rest as empty and useless as the war on drugs or the war on terrorism. But after committing every sort of atrocity, Obama and Bush were re-elected (well, Bush seems to have lost Both elections). But so many, so many took the bait of this billionaire perv jetsetter who SAID he cared about the little guys–the man was always contemptuous, like most New Yorkers, of the little people in fly-over country, till he transformed himself completely as candidate Trump.
And next time around we’ll have our first gay president and everyone will be happy.
‘Trump strikes Syrian base’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDwqBSw8nX0
The spoiled children of AIPAC and Israel, continue to whine, wail, and get their way.
Well it’s now clear, Trump is nothing more than a two-faced liar, just like every other politician in Washington, D.C. It’s a shame this Zionist bitch missed his real calling in life, as a scamming used car salesman.
Americans are sick and tired of pointless wars, fewer and fewer are joining the military.
It now seems imminent, just like the Vietnam war, American kids will start getting drafted as wars in the Middle East begin to escalate.
Keep in mind, 58,000 Americans died in the Vietnam war, of which only 270 were Jewish Americans. That’s a fraction, of one percent.
It’s become obvious to me, the Jewish culture does a lot of taking and very little giving outside of their self-serving circles.
Congratulations, you’re more cynical than the 70 million of your fellow citizens who still bothered to vote. What did you win? Do you get to live in an alternate universe, free from the effects of this one? No, you’re stuck here with the rest of us. At least you’re American and can vote for which place holder gets to appease the Swamp for four years. The rest of us 7 billion people just have to watch you all do it again and again.
And its UK vassal, too. 🙂
All the more so imo given just how shameless a breach of international law and the US’s UN Charter treaty obligations this was. Admittedly that’s nothing new, but given past pontifications from the said European vassals about the supposed importance of international law it’s all the more nauseating coming from them.
At least US politicians have always been pretty open in their contempt for their own nation’s treat obligations (the inconvenient ones, that is, of course).
Foxnews.com
Some of the reactions in the Finnish mainstream media and social media:
Observing all of this is making it all the clearer for me that Finland is more pro-American country than even America itself.
. . . you bend over and pretend you like it. At least if you are DJT.
I spent an afternoon with Newt Gingrich once. Not one on one, but one on twenty. He is pretty creepy.
With most of them, it’s obvious that there is something wrong with them just from watching them on TV. Trump’s biggest asset in the GOP primaries was the fact that, in the debates, it was obvious that the only humans on stage were him and Paul, and once Paul was bumped from the tier 1 debates, just him.
Sad to see Trump bent over by the US elite so quickly.
I wasn’t talking about DJT. I was talking about you and the other “supporters” scurrying for the exits at the first sign of trouble.
I wonder what the net effect of this will be on Trump’s popularity in Europe.
I think it would go up by 10 percentage points.
Whaat? Yet another country not showing luv for Mother Russia? Why would that be? What did Russia ever do to Finland?. Oh, wait, never mind.
I would say that his popularity too a huge upswing today, at least in Finland. Most of the people take the news and opinions of mainstream media at a face value, and the media here is basically cheerleading the strike against Syria. And most people here have a negative attitude towards Russia, so anything that is bad for Russia is good in their opinion.
So yes, Trump scored a big victory with this move. The only risk for him is that Russia actually does something to retaliate – but it’s highly unlikely with Putin in charge.
The hatred for Russia in Finland cannot be explained with “Russian aggression towards Finland”. The roots for this hatred are way more complicated than that, and a full explanation would require its own blog entry.
And the aggression has not been exactly one-sided. It was Finland who first invaded Russia in 1918-1920 when Russia was in the middle of a civil war, and Finland tried to capture land from Eastern Karelia.
Hey iffen,
Likely they are not deranged or mad, but they are fairly good at seeming normal. That’s what makes them more dangerous:
“[Dr. Stout – A clinical psychologist who was long affiliated with Harvard Medical School and author of ‘The Sociopath Next Door’]: Yes, politicians are more likely than people in the general population to be sociopaths. I think you would find no expert in the field of sociopathy/psychopathy/antisocial personality disorder who would dispute this… That a small minority of human beings literally have no conscience was and is a bitter pill for our society to swallow — but it does explain a great many things, shamelessly deceitful political behavior being one.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-freeman/are-politicians-psychopaths_b_1818648.html
“All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.” – Chapterhouse: Dune
Peace.
I think it will be the opposite, at least among normal people. There is, and always has been, a lot of worry about American military power among Europeans; American aggression will only increase it. That explains much of the hatred of Bush after the Iraq War, so I don’t see why it would be any different here.
Also, as Trump becomes less popular on the European right (Marine has already denounced this), he will remain unpopular on the European left just because of who he is. The end result is that he’s about to become VERY unpopular. Further, I might suspect that a widely unpopular Trump might temporarily damage some European nationalists who have supported or even tolerated him through association.
The roots for this hatred are way more complicated than that
Thanks for the informed reply.
It’s different because European populations are so heavily propagandised into the “Arab Spring” nonsense and the Assad-as-demon war propaganda, so the initial response as Karlin suggests will likely be an increase in popularity because Trump hit the baddies.
Note the striking silence from the Euro left elites, in the initial reactions, about the blatant illegality of this US action.
However, you are probably correct that as time passes people are likely to revert to fundamentals and unless Trump moves to be fully co-opted by the globalists, and therefore protected by their media dominance, in the longer run he will have just made another rod for them to beat him with.
This sure throws a monkey wrench into the Jew MSM story that Trump is Putin’s poodle. Clearly Trump is bombing Putin’s interests. Clearly Trump is following the Israeli globalist agenda. Clearly it is no longer “America First.”
What is going to be the next Jew MSM spin for pushing Trump out of the presidency?
Peace — Art
p.s. It is sickening to see Stockholm DC totally energized, 100% pushing the Jew agenda. (You know, it’s all for the children.)
As an aside, I’m very glad that DC residents have no voting members of the Senate or House. All the more so given that I lived in DC and know the selfish, whiny, and often lazy pricks who live there, both fed “workers” and people perpetually on the dole.
All federal employees and welfare recipients should lose their right to vote during their period of fed employment or welfare dependency.
DC never should have been given electoral votes.
And point #4 has been altogether forgotten. But it ought not be ignored. Looking at Niki Haley reminded me of Colin Powell with his pointer, illustrating where the mystery “weapons of mass destruction” were stored. Same old/same old.
I don’t buy it. I think that there are cases of opportunists trying for a share of power and if they get it then they wield it with nothing but their self-interests in mind.
I think that Stalin, Hitler and Mao, loved their people and thought that they were killing the enemies of their people, just like Dubya. There is this problem of a great leader merging what is good for “my people” with what is good for me.
God Bless America. F— the US Government.
oh, shut up
and unless Trump moves to be fully co-opted by the globalists, and therefore protected by their media dominance
Hmm – Bannon and Priebus are in trouble – here is an article posted on Drudge.
https://www.axios.com/exclusive-trump-eyes-new-chief-of-staff-house-leader-on-short-list-2349015716.html
The fight is between the globalist Jew agenda and America First – as of today America is losing.
The truth is that Daddy Trump has already embraced Ivanka and Jared Kushner. They are everywhere – in on all events and discussions. (Jared just went to Iraq with the Joint Chief of Staff. He was looking over the shoulder of the top US military general.)
We are in for eight years of “Ivanka’s America.”
Maybe amongst the Globalist elite and those parties who support them. Obviously, the vast majority of Right/ Nationalists will be opposed, with the usual exceptions – Ukrainians, Finns and others with a historical grudge, real or imagined, against Russia.
However, in my neck of the woods, Scotland, even the fairly milquetoast SNP has hardly been supportive of Trump.
Ex-leader, Alec Salmond, makes the excellent point, ” President Trump has a political interest right now in humiliating his predecessor and distancing himself from Russia. The UK has no interest in either, with only this week the Foreign Secretary attempting to reset UK/Russian relations.”
See: https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10736/salmond-urges-real-policy-syria-uk-govt-twists-and-turns-trump
“Of course this would be a humiliation for Putin on at least the order of Euromaidan if not greater, so he will probably be forced to respond somehow, somewhere.”
Putin will be seen as a little more than a petty monument builder and surrender monkey…as Russian interests are destroyed in Syria… with Assad winding up dead or in the Hague awaiting trial for war crimes. Do you remember when Rogozin visited the US? He flatly stated that the rise to power of a republican admin in Wash. DC would spell big trouble for Russian foreign interests. He was right, although you can dress up military aggression in either liberal or conservative colors…wasn’t going to matter who got elected president.
In all fairness Trump described the younger victims of the chemical attack as “beautiful children”, now if he only had the presence of mind to add “little darlings” and “angels” and maybe “little photogenic marvels for propaganda” – OK maybe not the last one – that would have been way too revealing about how he really felt.
But if he expanded little bit on his plethora of adjectives describing the Syrian children, he would have once and for all removed all doubts about what a caring and compassionate person he is. I bet that in private he wept for hours over the fate of the Syrian children – that’s what a sensitive soul he is, it’s just his modesty that prevented him from allowing cameras to film that touching moment.
It’s considered that the last US election was contested by two candidates – of whom one was bad and the other worse. It is also widely believed that the bad candidate won. I guess everybody was wrong. It wasn’t the bad candidate that won, it was the worse one. Which is Trump.
This excuse is getting old. It was the excuse for Pence. It was the excuse for adopting Ryan’s plans on taxes and health care. It was the excuse for his personnel decisions.
It’s possible, of course, that he cut some kind of deal. The deep state gets some fireworks in Syria, and he gets immigration and trade. But I don’t see any indication of that. Do you?
And what to make of that strange performance announcing the strikes, with the implausible blubbering about children? This is the same guy who explicitly endorsed killing terrorists’ families, isn’t it?
The responses in that twitter thread are pretty depressing. So many patriotards.
Yes, dear, I know what you meant. Maybe get some more sleep?
I don’t see why he thinks that this will impress China. It’ll just piss off China, which now has reason to believe that war is inevitable.
Certainly worse for Russia–as I said he would be. And I told you the US had to slap uppity Russia down. Secure in its material superiority, America can afford to bluff, and Russia can’t afford to call.
Death from above. Now baby-killer Assad knows why his people fear the sky.
Your assessments appear delusional.
Assad and Russia have never been in doubt about the need to treat the US with extreme caution – as one would with any hefty, unpredictably aggressive fanatic with poor impulse control sitting in one’s front room. They have just recognised the general truth that appeasing aggression from the likes of the US has never been a useful response, so they have had to walk a tightrope of ensuring the US regime and those who “influence” it don’t profit too much from its aggression whilst not triggering the potentially terminal outburst of violence that it clearly has the potential for.
This act doesn’t change anything in that regard. It’s only consequences will be more support for Syria from Russia and probably China, an even greater recognition by China of the urgent need to hang together against the threat of lawless violence from the US, and once the initial hysterical excitement has worn off and reality intrudes again, a more unstable and dangerous situation in Syria, a more politically vulnerable Trump, and a less respected and less politically stable US.
Incompetence and mental instability. Rapeyness if that fails.
Anybody here really wants to “interpret” what really happened at Shairat Air Base? Why nobody pays any attention to what is into everybody faces. 59 BGM-109s fired (some say more), why NONE of the munitions hit the runway–the largest and by far target on the base. Hey, local “political analysts” and trolls–any ideas on why Konashenkov says that only 23 Tomahawks made it and detailed footage of the airbase shows “damage” which is completely icommesurable even with 23 Tomahawks? How can you explain that? Anyone wants to share with your “expertise”? Just in case, here it is.
https://youtu.be/oKtJjPypT7I
December 08, 2016 Bipartisan Bill Would Forbid US Funding ISIS, al-Qaeda Affiliates
Gabbert-Rohrabacher Bill Would Effectively End CIA Program Arming Syrian Rebels. The Stop Arming Terrorists Act (SATA) has been introduced today in the House of Representatives by Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D – HI). The bill is a bipartisan effort, co-sponsored by Reps. Peter Welch (D – VT), Barbara Lee (D – CA), Dana Rohrabacher (R – CA), and Thomas Massie (R – KY) which would forbid the US government from using taxpayer dollars to arm, fund, or train terrorist organizations.
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/08/bipartisan-bill-would-forbid-us-funding-isis-al-qaeda-affiliates/
I think that Stalin, Hitler and Mao, loved their people and thought that they were killing the enemies of their people
Oh my — a sick tribal Jew view on love – group action to the death is love.
Love for group identity and glory, is more important than the individual’s life.
Jews did that two thousand years ago – they did not learn. They will do it again.
Peace — Art
And yet China refuses to condemn it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/07/world/middleeast/world-reactions-syria-strike.html
I mean I realize and accept that Russia is a friend exclusively of convenience for China (and vice versa), but I would have thought that now of all occasions it could have been a bit more voluble when it was as good as threatened to its face.
The mainstream media was pushing Trump to take action against Syria, perhaps to embarrass him if he did not take action.
I also suspect Israel and Jared Kushner are happy about Trump’s cruise missile attack. They prefer ISIS to Assad and Iran/Hezbollah.
I think Trump was disposed to be non-interventionist, but he does not have the philosophical and political background necessary to resist the mainstream media and US State Department. He should consult with Senator Rand Paul more.
Frankly, until the US gets over its obsession with Israel and stops being bullied by the Jewish lobby, nothing is going to change. Trump and members of Congress can expose that issue but they would probably be committing political suicide.
But is not America worth it?
Dec 8, 2016 Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Bill to Stop Arming Terrorists
https://youtu.be/uKV1sTw8zOc
Xi usually takes a bit longer to express an opinion. But yes, this would have been a good time to express an unified front. I’m pretty disappointed as well, and would hope that China made a more explicit disapproval.
I watched the footage. To my untrained, inexpert eyes it looks like the US just shelled out some $100 million for a bunch of brightly burning holes in the ground. As Rurik would say, such a deal!
Russia is “not an enemy” of convenience, not a “friend”. It is a crucial distinction.
The Chinese were caught out by it occurring whilst they were in the middle of a meeting with Trump, and that certainly will have made them respond less confrontationally. It will be interesting to see what their position develops into next week.
A brigadier general was killed – that suggests they took out a control facility.
Leith Fadel is reporting that there are lots of missing pilots and ground crew.
The airport was the main support base for the Palmyra front and the besieged enclaves in Deir Ezor. So, the USN was acting as the caliphate’s air force (again).
Well the two nations and their leaders need to upgrade that relationship pronto and let bygones be bygones, however bitter. Never was it more true that if they don’t hang together they will assuredly be hanged separately.
Exactly. Now consider this, just in:
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/850425431899680768
This is humiliation. 59 Tomahawks? I think only few of them actually got there, fewer than 23. What happened to them? I think the “message” has been sent this morning and the message in is the footage. The truth is in the pudding, so to speak.
It is getting curioser and curioser(c)
While I share your sentiment somewhat, there are very many details which go into this arrangement and they are of mostly military-technological nature.
He’s been assimilated by the Borg.
Any part of his platform that Goldman Sachs disapproves of (immigration restrictions) are probably out of the window.
The one slim hope is that Trump is unpredictable – maybe he’ll unassimilate himself in some 3am twitter storm.
My first thought was that the Russia smears have weakened him and he is bending under the pressure. But now, I’m not sure – he’s either a very good actor, or he really believes the baloney he is being fed.
That is pretty plausible. Getting halfway decent information on Syria is not easy.
It won’t come from the MSM. Perhaps there are some sceptical voices still in the State Department, US intelligence community or active service military.
Also, now that people know how to push Trump’s buttons, what’s next? A USS Liberty courtesy of Erdogan?
The country that did as much as anyone else to stir a crisis in Ukraine almost condems it. It’s telling that Bildt is no longer in office there.
The global times editorial doesn’t quite condem it, but comes close. http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1041329.shtml They seem to be making every effort to be pro us during the visit.
Dear SmoothieX12:
I’m usually too busy with my software work to browse the comment-threads on my own webzine. But over the last couple of years, I’ve frequently noticed yours, and although I don’t necessarily always agree with your opinion, you seem extremely well informed on military matters, especially related to Russia. Looking over your own blog strengthens that opinion.
If you’d ever like to submit an articles of yours in these sorts of topics for possible publication, please consider doing so. You can use the email in the “Contacts” section of the footer.
Thank you, Ron, for your kind offer. It will be my pleasure. I will.
Hear! Hear!
Bullshit.
These guys “loved their people” like you love your model trainset.
No.
All of this show was “ready to go” like a microwave pizza.
Photographers. Ready.
Sarin stash. Ready.
Human Rights Watch. Ready.
Target selection. Ready.
UN presentation screed. Ready.
Enough boats to carry 60 cruise missiles. Ready.
The comments on that Tweet hurt. The liberalism is just off the scale. Trump both Hilter and Putin puppet and why didn’t we kill Russians?
Jerry Pournelle’s solution was best. Herd the people into a stadium, then saturate with defensive grenades.
Probably he should have made right choices while assembling his team. It is difficult if not impossible to be that inexperienced and act properly on one’s promises while surrounded by people holding opposite views.
“…Аssad winding up dead or in the Hague awaiting trial for war crimes.”
This is a wet dream of ziocons, is not it? The Israeli/US’ supporters of Al Qaeda and such are dripping with hatred because Syria – and her multi-dominational population – have been holding on on Syrian sovereignty. Which is intolerable for the thieving “chosen” and American oilmen.
Do YOU remember what country has started the illegal wars of aggression in the Middle East? You need to make your mind about the real crimes and the alleged crimes before invoking the international court. While gloating about the alleged destruction of the Russian interests in Syria, why don’t you think for a second about the interests of humanity at large? Or the shiny things kept before your eyes by the empire of Federal reserve makes it difficult to keep attention on real problems?
It might not be possible any more – too much corruption. People used to make jokes about banana republics but we’ve been turned into one.
The language used being so unlike him was kind of a coded message.
It means either:
1) “don’t take what is going to happen at face value”
or
2) “they have taken me hostage”
or it was written by somebody else – which is the same as (2).
My recollection on bin Laden and the Taliban is that they offered to deliver him if Bush provided evidence of his complicity in 9/11. But of course that was not what Bush wanted.
Clinton called for air strikes over the gas attack and if she’d won the election we would have been at war with Syria the day after
At worst Trump is the same as Clinton and the rest of the political-media class. More likely the corruption is too deep and he’s trapped.
I am shocked by the insanity of the US view of Russia. It’s like people think it is the USSR. Never in the history of the world has there been less to fight over. They are living in a version of reality that simply doesn’t exist.
The world has changed since the end of the USSR/Cold War in unimaginable ways. The notion of physical expansion, taking and holding territory makes very little sense. The Ukraine dustup was over access to markets. The US wants and needs some sort of trade deal with Mexico. And access to Mexican markets. But suppose I suggested that we invade Mexico and annex it? What would we get? Puerto Rico on steroids. It is unimaginable.
Let me suggest that Russia wanted its Crimean base, but otherwise wanted a trade deal with Ukraine. There is no doubt Russia could take Ukraine in a military battle, but why? Prior to the dustup, the two countries did a lot of trade and Ukraine was a large customer for its gas. It was a profit center for Russia, not a cost.
I could go on, but there seems to be a view that it is an advantage for a state to invade and occupy another. Physical empire conclusively failed in the 20th century. Physically taking and holding territory is the worst possible way to get access to markets and obtain physical resources. In general, there are global markets and it is insane to fight for something you can just buy.
Oil is unique. The US burns as much oil in a week as Germany did in WW 2. Unfortunately for them, they needed 2 weeks worth. To the extent that oil was thought of as a strategic resource to the extent that it was reasonable to spend a large percentage of GDP to protect physical access — that is now dead. US Unconventional Oil and Gas has turned oil into just another commodity. Drill for it, mine it, manufacture it, or buy it. It’s there. Potash is critical for food production, but would anyone build a military around access to it?
And finally, Russia is considered an emerging market. They are part of the global market system and in spite of its image, is one of the stronger members.
I regret not writing more about a Russian firm buying one of the largest, strategically located steel mills in the US. Bethlehem Steel’s Sparrows Point plant, on its way to bankruptcy, was sold to Russian company Severstal for a few hundred million.
The one area I have some personal experience that might be considered unusual is that I have looked at some Russian public companies. Their shares can frequently be purchased in the form of ADR’s on the NYSE. They use IAS or international accounting standards, which is similar to US GAAP. They publish financial statements that are audited and, in my opinion, good.
A final example. http://www.sberbank.ru/en/individualclients/deposits/settlementdeposit/universal
Sberbank is a large bank and popular with retail customers. Per the linked advertisement, Russian citizens can hold deposits in their major currency of choice. Rubles, US Dollars, or Euros. In contrast to a country like Argentina, which has currency controls and a ‘blue market’ in dollars.
As odd as it might sound, Russia is a member of the Paris Club and is currently involved in resolving a $3 billion Ukrainian loan through more or less standard, global channels.
That is why the Cold War 2 is so misguided. The USSR at the height of their global competition with the US had a parallel economic system. It had an economic ideology that was popular and seriously conflicted with Western market based systems. They had Stalin. And on and on.
When someone mentions Munich with respect to a potential military adventure, I want to vomit. And mindlessly whipping up war drums with reference to a Cold War that has been over for 20 to 30 years is beyond silly.
Not that a military doesn’t matter. And chatting about how the US would do vs Russia in a conventional war may be interesting. Especially over beers on a slow weekend. But it like the theoretical fight between Floyd Mayweather Jr.and Conor McGregor. Boxer vs MMA.
I’ve never been to Russia. But the insistence of not simply fighting the last war but the war before last — really. I am disgusted.
A formal military alliance, or even regular closer military cooperation, would be another matter. I’m talking just about more effective diplomatic and economic cooperation (such as – pace my own comment above about the Chinese having been caught somewhat short by being in a meeting at the time – by a strong and prompt Chinese condemnation of this US attack for what it was, namely yet another brazen assertion of contempt for the US’s treaty commitments under the UN Charter), and perhaps stronger soft power efforts at relationship building from the top on both sides.
Mine too.
These guys “loved their people” like you love your model trainset.
I do love my trainset. I still have the one I received for Christmas 58 years ago.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.782007
Of course, former Soviet graduate of agriculture institute (accidentally, Dugin also got similar “degree”–he couldn’t handle MAI’s engineering regimen) must have a really good handle (after all, he has also a “degree” in… political “science”) on all this “intelligence” mambo-jumbo, especially in Israel whose claim to military competence is about the same as that of British fighting Zulus.
I wonder whether Finland would rediscover the ‘White Death’ to show the Russkis with whom they would have to deal if they “aggress” Finland again. Finland won the ‘Winter War’, right?
To clarify a bit:
These are simply arbitrary observations regarding the bizarre current American hysteria over Russia.
Lest I sound like a heretical ‘globalist’, in terms of trade, I am speaking of commodities. A primary characteristic is they are interchangeable, although it is a marketer’s deepest fantasy to associate it with a brand, differentiate it, and sell it for more. Commodities include crops, basic materials, and oil. Until the last few years, they were considered an inflationary hedge and valuable due to their value independent of a potentially devaluing currency. However, they have experienced deflation recently. Rather than scarcity, there is a glut. Oil exporting nations are fighting for customers, and consumers are losing their fears of scarcity.
It has been a dominant theme in financial markets for a few years, especially with the collapse of oil prices in 2014. Obvious to the extent that it seems needless to remark on. However, FR hasn’t began to grasp the concept that there is quite limited need to compete over access to purchase commodities.
I will leave other aspects of trade alone, as beyond the scope of this post.
But I am afraid of our neo cons. Nuclear weapons have prevented conventional war between nuclear powers because the policy elites were afraid of the consequence of their use. MAD has become so efficacious that it is simply assumed. But as soon as it is taken for granted, and no one fears it – then it becomes much less effective. The severity of the consequences are so high to make even a very small probability an unacceptable risk. Yet pushing and testing the limits has become irresistible to FP elites.
In terms of rationality, NATO has largely disarmed Europe, as they cheat and fail to spend their minimum commitments on their defense. Russia should be less afraid of NATO and more afraid of us walking away and letting Germany, for example, develop its own military for its defense. Which would include nukes.
Europe was reckless by acting as if they were serious about bringing Ukraine into the EU. They didn’t want and couldn’t afford to integrate Romaina and Bulgaria — and the thought that they would finance a restructuring of Ukraine’s economy was silly. Yet they couldn’t restrain themselves.
Yet here we are … with less and less to fight over … and yet panic on the part of the FP elite/deep state. Like there is a shortage of legitimate conflict and they will starve. And yesterday they got their first taste of war, reducing their anxieties. The spectacle was deeply disturbing.
competence is about the same as that of British fighting Zulus.
So, who did win that fight? I guess the Zulus just achieved what they wanted and went home or was that the British?
It’s only bizarre if you think the constant media demonizing of Russia is connected to US interests. The people who own the media want Assad toppled and so promote anti-Russian hysteria because Russia is stopping them from getting what they want.
In fairness to the Zulus, they were using basically spears and shields, and we were using Martini-Henrys, Gatling guns, field artillery and rockets. And they still managed to win a battle.
Not our proudest military moment, despite the Zulu’s well earned martial reputation.
THE STOP ARMING TERRORISTS ACT
In January, 2017, this was re-introduced [in the new Congress] as H.R.608, the Stop Arming Terrorists Act. There are now 10 cosponsors.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/608
On March 6, 2017, Rand Paul introduced the bill in the Senate. As yet, he has no cosponsors.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/532
Press release from Rand’s website:
https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/press/dr-rand-paul-introduces-the-stop-arming-terrorists-act
China is a very specific nation–she is nobody’s friend or ally. Today it is Russia, tomorrow it’s US, but in the end it is always a concentric empire of underheaven (podnebesnaya) which is in the center of all of this. At this stage China is no military contest for US, especially in naval matters. China knows it even despite some serious steps she took as of lately. That is why China needs Russia.
Interestingly, ‘specialists’ in Russian policy and military matters have degrees related to biology (Pavel Felgenhauer, for instance).
There have been lots of extravagant and palpably false claims, as with all events in the Syrian war. The runway, nay the whole base was said to have been utterly destroyed, and many Russians to have been killed.
China made her opinion of the “sarin attack” very clear in the UNSC meeting prior to the silly salvo. I wouldn’t read any Russo-Chinese discord into this at all.
I didn’t.
I read a lack of due Chinese urgency in backing Russia up against the common threat to both Russia and China, in a case of the clearest possible open contempt for international law and its own treaty commitments on the part of the US regime – an open goal as it were, and one that certainly ought not to be allowed to stand uncriticised by any decent nation. And I gave one probable reason for that in this particular case.
Nor is Russia most likely.
Both China and Russia are probably too strong for the US to actually overthrow militarily and neither are capable of matching US force projection capabilities. But China could be defeated in a war over control of its maritime approaches and Russia could be defeated in a war in the Middle East, and there are certainly people at high levels in the US regime pushing for those perceived superiorities to be exploited now, while they remain available.
Both Russia and China are increasing their capabilities rapidly – Russia rebuilding after the late C20th collapse and China building anew.
But for sure China still needs Russia in military tech terms, just as Russia needs China for economic and diplomatic reasons. I get the impression both Russia and China persist in thinking the other one needs them more, because each ultimately underestimates the real threat it faces from the US. The US regime might manufacture an attack on either of them, if it thinks the other will sit on its hands whilst it does so.
I was only ever in Finland once, in the early 1980s. Then, it had a large Communist Party, approximately 20% of the vote and Presidents whose principal role was to have saunas with Brezhnev and other Soviet Politicos. It had been neutralized by the 1944 Armistice and subsequent 1947 Treaty. Strangely, the UK was as heavily involved as USSR, so why no anti-British feeling ( unless you know better )
Two of the consequences of the these treaties were the banning of “fascist” parties and the requirement to send asylum seekers from the USSR straight back. So if you got over the Finnish-Soviet Border, you had to continue on to Norway or Sweden to claim asylum. Often, Finnish Communists reported Soviet asylum seekers straight to the Soviet Embassy, I have been told.
This situation suited the vast majority of Finns. It severely restricted attempts to escape from the USSR through Finland and stopped asylum attempts full stop. Finland never had to deal with refugees from Communism and benefitted very greatly from its trade with the USSR.
Now, things seem to have inverted themselves.
I understand this is a complex matter. Could you recommend me articles in English, hopefully, which could throw light on this strange and unusual business.
Brian Williams Describes Syrian Missile Strike as ‘Beautiful’ 3 Times In 30 Seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwnSAmIlZPk
Military does not work like this, nor “nominal” military so called potentials do. The first question one has to ask is this: weaker or stronger FOR WHAT objectives and under what conditions. Discussing anything beyond the answers on these two questions is pointless.
Nobody can match US power projection capabilities, but again–why does one need them? China, maybe. Russia, what for? Russia’s military doctrine is explicitly defensive. Again, after that, what is “projection”–can US “project” against Russia proper and her vicinity? Yes, she can, she will also sustain a catastrophic defeat. So what’s the point then? Here is an interview of Admiral Stansfield Turner to CSM in 1976–an example of concise and to the point explanation of the “spread” of strategic and operational points (objectives).
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D17tZTlExkY/VltFjMm58qI/AAAAAAAAAQg/4iRLTvgXbHQ/s1600/Turner.jpg
P.S. Apart from size, China is not in the same league militarily with Russia. She is improving but lacks crucial capabilities, especially in military aviation and subs.
My words were a direct parallel to your own regarding China. If one is pointless, so is the other.
My point about power projection reflects the distinction between being able to defend your own territory, which both China and Russia can do pretty effectively even against the US (conventionally speaking – nukes render such considerations partially but not entirely academic), and being able to attack or defend territory or interests remote from the homeland. Such as Russia’s military force and interests currently in Syria and China’s maritime approaches, which were the examples I gave. As we both know, when you are a major power defence often includes having to defend remotely located interests or allies, which requires the ability to project sufficient power to do it – an area in which China is still, of course, years or probably decades behind Russia.
Yes, I agree. But quantity does have a quality all of its own, and gaps in capabilities can be rendered less important by appropriate strategic choices and circumstances. And China’s relative position is improving rapidly every year in relation to both Russia and the US.
But I don’t think we are really disagreeing about much. As I wrote above, Russia and China complement each other’s strengths and weaknesses well – Russia can help China with what it lacks in the military sphere and China can provide economic and diplomatic heft that Russia needs in order to confront US aggression.
The question is, can Russia trust China in the long run? And can China really trust Russia if and when it comes to the crunch confrontation with the US, and the US tries to nip Chinese rivalry in the bud by, as Steve Bannon notoriously declared to be inevitable, going to war with it “in the next five to ten years” over the western Pacific?
{… But China could be defeated in a war over control of its maritime approaches}
You state that based on what?
What is your definition of ‘maritime approaches’: how far from Chinese mainland or its islands?
Certainly US Navy has no peer in its ability to project force over world’s oceans, but China certainly will have the upper hand in its periphery, including maritime approaches. Practically unlimited Chinese assets are right there.
And US carriers will be vulnerable in close proximity to China.
So I don’t see how anyone can say for certain China will be defeated in their own back yard.
I agree, I don’t believe anyone can honestly say that, for the reason I have given elsewhere – there are just too many uncertainties and unknowns. A few years ago China could not have hoped to protect its maritime approaches from the US, however defined. In a few years time it will be reasonably certain that the US could not win a war in the same area. Have we crossed the threshold yet? I don’t know, though my sense is that we are very close to it, on one side or the other.
However, it is US “Official Opinion” that the US would win such a war provided it is carried out within the next few years. Whether the military men follow that in their private briefings or not is another matter.
See, for instance:
China-US War Over Taiwan and Spratlys: Which Side Would Win?
[The Diplomat article is a little misleading imo, focussing on the negative aspects in the report promoting the need for more US military spending (which are almost always present in a RAND report). If you read the report itself it is much more confident of a US “victory” than the article implies.]
No, China sees herself as globalist power US 2.0.
Yes, Russia covers China’s strategic rear and is not interested in China in the long run other than as a potential large market. Russia also will supply some technology and will provide diplomatic support should China and US clash.
Largely true. US Navy, however, has a huge edge in when it comes to submarine forces. China started to produce Type 039A SSKs with AIP and, at least on paper, they look good–but PLAN has only few of them. PLAN’s nuclear sub component is not even in he same universe when it comes to US submarine force–US’s it is simply much larger, much better trained and operates technologies China simply doesn’t have. Russia WILL NOT lease to China project 971M SSNs, let alone something like project 885 Yasen-class. I wouldn’t do it for any money or promises.
with PHOTO of COLIN POWELL claiming IRAQ WMD –
Bolivia UN Envoy on Syria Attack: ‘History Teaches Us’ US Lies to Justify Wars
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Bolivia-UN-Envoy-on-Syria-Attack-History-Teaches-Us-US-Lies-to-Justify-Wars-20170407-0009.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eri9ppNRA7Y
UN: Don’t forget Bush’s ‘proof’ of WMDs led to ‘atrocities’ – Bolivian envoy tells Security Council
Not sure about this. For sure China sees itself as the naturally globally dominant power, merely artificially suppressed for a few centuries, and that will probably cause quite a few problems.
But like Russia today, and unlike the Soviets/Maoists in the past or the US today, China does not have a dominant universalist ideology that it sees as giving it a right and a duty to tell other nations how to live. China imo expects other countries to pay it due respect, and that in itself could be a problem as it gets more powerful, but the really poisonously destabilising force imo is a universalist ideology, and that China lacks, fortunately.
I can certainly understand why Russia isn’t keen on giving China its military crown jewels, though. I’d have thought selling them a squadron of Tu160Ms would be worthwhile, though, if only because just announcing the sale would send the Yanks into hysterics and make them spend billions more on beefing up air defences all over the Pacific 🙂
In any event, submarine ops skills and technology, like carrier ops skills and technology, at the level presently held by the US and to a lesser extent Russia, can only be built the hard way, with decades of heavy investment and decades of working experience. China’s only at the beginning of a long road.
The reason Chinese call themselves Поднебесная–Under Heaven is that the core of their world view is a concentric Empire, with Han Chinese in the middle. This scenario is still in the works. Culturally, Russians and Chinese are extremely different people.
Absolutely, but actually, Chinese Air Force has one of the, if not the highest flight hours index. More than USAF or RUAF.
Randal is correct, though. There’s no great evangelical urge; even now, Chinese influence in the world usually for plain economic interests and do not involve efforts to dominant economically. The belief that “different systems for different people” has been pretty coherent for a long time.
Even Zheng He’s voyages were highly motivated not by any native philosophy, but through his Islamic influence which did motivate him to find a path to Mecca.
Finest “Captain My Captain” Pravda Quality from the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/asia/trump-china-xi.html?_r=0
Impressed, eh?
I sure hope this kind of crud has been faxed in by a White House writer.
He’s already acted.
Interesting discussion.
On China, ideology or not, trade takes Chinese to a lot of places e.g. Africa, and that means they’ll get caught up in local disputes from time to time which means some kind of emergency force projection becomes inevitable – and other stuff will flow from that.
#
O/T
PUTIN!!!!!
i’d like biodome experiments in Siberia please in case my grand-kids need a place to live in 20 years or so.
I watched this too, Utu.
Doesn’t it ?
This “addiction” to war and mass murder is RIGHT THERE ….for all to see.
One could almost imagine Brian Williams hugging and kissing the side of our warship, or using his tongue to lovingly caress the head of a tomahawk missile before its launched.
Couldn’t we ?
We see THEIR addiction….we UNDERSTAND this addiction…..it is OOZING out of their pores.
Isn’t it ?
The question is….. Why should WE pay for THEIR addiction ?
Let them use their OWN money to feed their insatiable war habit.
Because Americans just do not want to pay for it…ANYMORE.
Americans will pay a premium to have a supreme military to defend our country, this much is true.
But we do not want to pay for their malevolent addiction to wars of choice and wars of aggression based on phony pretexts.
Why should we ?
The whole reason Trump was voted into the White House is because he felt the EXACT SAME WAY.
We need to find intelligent, creative solutions to the catastrophes , both in blood and treasure, our Neocon overlords have wrought.
They are destroying the world and breaking the back of our country in the process.
The most intelligent solution I can see…..is to make them pay for it.
Once our war profiteers, belligerent oligarchs, and media moguls have to dig down deep into their OWN POCKETS to cover the TWENTY TRILLION DOLLAR NUT, their deceptions have cost us, you are going to see an ABOUT FACE in pernicious warmongering very quickly.
Very quickly indeed.
How many of us would relish the day, they are all standing naked, in suspendered barrels, outside the white house lawn holding up picket signs…saying…. NO MORE WAR IF WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
because if they DID have to pay for it…This is EXACTLY what they would do.
Imagine just how many “Brian William moments ” we will be forced to see…ONCE the owners of NBC have to kick up ALL the money , in advance, for all the wars they wish to start ?
ZERO.
I surprised they were not shouting that Assad used Zyklon-B
That was the big fake news that worked so well 70 years ago for 70 years
and this is the same story….made up by the same networks!
I often wonder how many important people, say of the Zbignew Brizinski mold, actually know that the founding myth of our liberal world order you allude to here is…..you know…
In the war against Syria the US has been behaving as a patsy for Israel (in addition to making Halliburton’ and other war/oil mega profiteers happy). Because Israel’s policies cannot be congruent with international law, the US policies are blatantly illegal as well, particularly in Syria and Libya. The leading psychopaths in Congress – from Pelosi and Schumer to McCain and Graham – are praising Trump for the proper alignment with ziocons and MIC. The sloppy and thin venire of civilized behavior is falling apart to reveal imperial banditism.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/04/07/why-the-united-states-use-of-force-against-syria-violates-international-law/
Ron Paul, Tulsi Gabbard Indicate Syrian Gas Attack was False Flag, “Propaganda”
https://hubpages.com/politics/Ron-Paul-Tulsi-Gabbard-Say-Syrian-Gas-Attack-was-False-Flag
“Saying that there is “zero chance” that Syrian President Bashar Assad was behind the deadly gas attack which triggered a US cruise missile barrage ordered by President Donald Trump last Thursday, Ron Paul, in an interview, called the gas attack likely a false flag commissioned by hawkish elements within the US government, who have been trying to “remake the map” of the Middle East since the Iraq invasion.”
Tulsi Gabbard tells Tucker why she believes Trump’s airstrikes on Syria were illegal, ‘counterproductive’ and ‘reckless’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cduat02QyI
Dem lawmaker who met with Assad blasts Trump
Why Russia’s media are so pathetically weak? For some years already I follow some Russian media outfits and I am amazed why they are so inept and indolent. Their approach is totally inadequate when targeted with Anglo-Zio media aggressive anti-Russia narratives.
This time when Russia and Putin were smacked in the face in Syria the best Russia came up with was to claim that it did not hurt that much, that only 23 out of 59 missiles reached the target and that the damage to the airport was minimal. And next day they doubled down on it by having planes taking off from the airport. Whether the claims are factual or not it does not matter. The opposite approach should have be used: exaggerate the pain and loss you have suffered. Keep showing dead bodies and damage even if invented. Do not pretend that it rains when they are spitting in your face. Show your hurt, your weakness. Be more like Jews who will accuse every drop of that rain for being anti-semitic. Be proactive not reactive.
So why Russia’s propaganda machine is so weak? Is it because Russians are proud people or that their journalists and propagandists have moral scruples and won’t engage in lies and manipulations? Obviously not. They just do not know because they are conditioned by the working of propaganda in the authoritarian regime just like during Tsars and Bolsheviks. In the authoritarian regime the chief objective of propaganda is to convince the subjects of the regime that the regime knows what it is doing and that it is strong. The propaganda is not really directed for the foreign enemies but for the domestic friends. For this reason any setbacks or losses will be hidden from the populace or minimized. No disasters and no catastrophes ever happened in the Soviet Union if you just read Pravda or Izvestia. Towards the end of WWII Goebbels was disappointed with inability of German propaganda to produce sympathy around the world for Germans suffering due to American and British bombing of German civilian population. But this was a consequence of years of hiding these losses from German population because the regime wanted to project its strengths. And that was a mistake. So if Russia wants to confront Anglo-Zio media they must shape up and change the approach. So far they are failing though I am sure they are doing a wonderful job for people like Smoothie (if you ask him) and other clumsy and ineffective agents of influence on behalf of Russia.
It is a common knowledge that Israel has nukes that they will not account for, or allow international arms control experts to inventory.
Almost every one thinks that Israel’s nukes are in Israel, proper.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Israel’s nukes are distributed throughout the world, and yes, in the United States as well.
This is part of Israel’s “promise” to vaporize a European or American city if it is attacked–their “Samson Option”.
You can bet, that if a nuke is discharged in Europe or the United States, Iranian or Syrian passports will be found in the rubble, not unlike the passports found at the WTC.
Israel has never been our “friend”.
There’s a time for playing the victim and a time for displaying contempt. In this case , displaying contempt was and is the correct approach to what was essentially a symbolic pinprick.
It’s true that many foreign nations fail to understand the power of the victimhood narrative in modern US sphere nations, understandably perhaps because it is such a contemptible and unusual cultural flaw. But propaganda to play on it will only work in the US sphere itself, and much foreign propaganda from countries outside the US sphere is not aimed at the US sphere but rather at their own people and at neighbours, where it’s likely to be counterproductive if it emphasises weakness.
I suggest breaking international law, violating Syrian territorial integrity, and bearing false witness against Assad is a lot more than just “a symbolic pinprick.”
http://www.un-documents.net/a25r2625.htm
Well considering breaking international law, violating territorial integrity, and bearing false witness are none of them remotely unusual behaviour for recent US presidents, I think being rather dismissive of their significance is probably justified.
However, on this occasion I was characterising the strictly military significance (or lack thereof) of the attacks in particular.
Hey anarchyst,
Why would they need to do that? They are already purchasing nuclear-capable submarines in front of the whole world:
“The Israeli Navy is preparing to upgrade its maritime arsenal with the $1.3 billion purchase of three state-of-the-art submarines from Germany, The Jerusalem Post’s sister publication Maariv reported Friday…According to foreign reports, the navy’s Dolphins provide Israel with nuclear second-strike capabilities, as they can travel far from Israel’s territorial waters and are reportedly able to carry long-range cruise missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.”
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israel-close-to-purchasing-3-nuclear-submarines-from-Germany-470615
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-looks-to-buy-three-new-nuclear-capable-subs-report/
I actually like the reporting that comes out of Israel – they are pretty open about these things.
Peace.
Israel’s nukes have been pre-positioned in potential target countries for YEARS, as they had no submarine fleet to speak of. It is much easier to “detonate in place” than to risk being “found out” by utilizing missile technology. In addition, should the need arise, Israel can always blame a detonation on someone else, as past experience shows that they are expert at “false flag” operations.
“By way of deception shall thou do war”…
Regards,
I don’t necessarily believe this or think it changes anything but given the attack in 2013 it’s possible they’re not knowingly bearing false witness.
The story I believe about the 2013 gas attack was some chemical agents were moved into a part of (forgotten which city it was) that was regularly shelled by the Syrian army and stored underground so they could be released during an artillery barrage. Anyone monitoring would have seen an artillery barrage followed by reports of chemicals – easy to add 2 + 2 and make 5.
So, maybe same thing. Store some chemicals under ground, wait for an air strike, release them. US carrier sees Syrian air force planes, drops bombs, reports of chemical attack, 2+2=5. To be plausible this would need the attacked area to be hit regularly.
I don’t think this changes much apart from the number of people who’d need to be colluding.
“I actually like the reporting that comes out of Israel – they are pretty open about these things.”
They’re not open though about how many nukes they have or under what conditions they would use them and against whom. There’s that whole theory of the “Samson option” which is pretty disturbing if you think about it…and Israel seems to leave it deliberately unclear whether there is anything to it or not.
Hey GR,
In all honesty – many of those specific policies are not out in the open even in democracies. And since Israel never signed the NPT, they deliberately keep a lid on how many they have (which I believe is the same with Pakistan and India).
Yeah, the Samson option is pretty crazy and I believe no less than Prof. Martin Van Creveld (a man whose work I deeply respect) has stated this is Israeli policy. That kind of stuff sounds like end-times scenarios – we’re talking full on Armageddon, Kaliyuga, etc. so hopefully, it doesn’t come to that.
Hoping I live to see the day when these weapons get retired.
Peace.
As long as it is not DEBKA, LOL! But truth is, even the headline in JPost is BS. Here how it reads:
In reality, Dolphin-class subs are NOT nuclear subs and Germany has no expertise in building nuclear submarines. But then again, it’s Israel, alright–they have to self-aggrandize, despite the fact that Israel is buying these subs from Germany and they are not-nuclear subs. Most modern subs, however, are capable to carry cruise missiles.
“Hoping I live to see the day when these weapons get retired.”
I don’t see how that could be brought about, I just can’t imagine any of the big nuclear powers ever giving up their arsenals (South Africa was an exception, and of course it only happened there because of the transition to black majority rule…and even the rationale for apartheid South Africa having nukes was pretty strange, didn’t help them at all in the end). Also not sure if it’s actually desirable, it might lead to an increased risk of conventional war…without nuclear deterrents war between the US and Russia would probably have happened quite some time ago. But the very idea of those weapons ever getting used is of course totally terrifying…and I’m afraid the idea of actually using nukes might some day be seen as not that bad under certain conditions, people are too complacent about all these matters of war and peace.
Hey Smoothie,
Yeah, I see what you are saying – I think when you dig in it makes it clear these are not nuclear-powered subs, but are capable of fielding the missiles which can house nuclear warheads. I guess it depends what someone thinks when they hear ‘nuclear sub’ – I personally think weapons, but hey – I’m a novice when it comes to this trade.
Peace.
Hope away, it’s much more likely you’ll live to see the day when these weapons get used… again.
Hey GR,
Well, worst-case scenario; around 2/3 to 3/4 of the world’s population goes up in smoke (well actually that would be the easy way – surviving a nuclear blast is not fun for the few days after where you bleed your life out of every orifice). And, frankly, Europeans should really take the forefront on this because they are the most likely to be incinerated in an exchange that seeks to eliminate populations between America and its vassals and Russia and it’s sphere of influence.
Nomadic Tuareg and Fulani horsemen will hear about it a few days after the fact.
I don’t know, I’ll take my chances with conventional wars which are getting extremely expensive to prosecute – that might be all the deterrence we need.
Peace.
Not exactly correct. First few German submarines were given to Israel for free and subsequent on 50% discount, so the word buying does not adequately describe what is going on there.
Where? In embassies or Chabad centers?
I think you’ll find the high costs are a feature, not a bug, for those making the decisions.
This needs to be said: chemical weapons ARE NOT weapons of mass destruction. Nuclear -definitely, biological-possibly, chemical – no. Chemical weapons are distasteful, tragic, indicriminate -yes, mass destruction – no, not any more than “bombs”.
Quite so, thank you. This business of labeling things “WMD” has gotten way out of hand. There were even hysterical assertions that the Boston bombings [using pressure-cooker bombs, for gosh sakes] was a case of WMD. That was obviously idiotic, but it seems that anything random that might cause multiple victims is now subject to this accusation.
Seth Moulton ( MA Congressman ) thinks Putin and Russia got together to conspire at a deeper level and got this military attack to divert attention from Russian election-hacking.
Tucker is grilling him on FOX. He has already started dialing back.
I now know why now people engage in conspiracy . They engage in conspiracy when things don’t make sense ,when it is not logical. Iraq war did not make sense . 911 was used to make that war possible So it was natural for people to explore all kinds of reasons that could have explained 911 or fall of the tower . The illogicality of a large project like iraq war and the attack on Syria can’t be ascribed to stupidity or mistakes . But it is not in Putin-Trump cavorting together .
But Seth should look for the reason at some other areas .
NOT illogical. NOT mistakes. NOT stupid.
CHAOS IS THE POLICY. Just EVIL.
Sam Husseini, a journalist with the Institute of Public Accuracy, discusses the Syrian conflict and the US policy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qln9NhqfHS4
US is destabilizing Syria on purpose – journalist
The timing of Bannon’s demotion from the NSC is interesting. It happened a few days before the gas attack.
Could be a coincidence – McMaster wanted him out. Or, the deep statists were getting their ducks in a row.
Given the highly coordinated and disciplined media response, I suspect the latter.
Both…
Good by belated move by Putin
Putin: Syria Chemical Attack Was ‘False Flag,’ More ‘Provocations’ Coming
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/04/11/putin-syria-chemical-attack-was-false-flag-more-provocations-are-coming/
Putin and his media should have been calling False Flag before it happened!
Well Randal, you got me there. No doubt about it. The good thing is these big-budget items don’t necessarily have to work, just have to bring in the dough.
I guess it’s up to us folks – do we want to take care of people here or keep our empire?
The Brits made that decision after the devastating second world war. I forget who it was, maybe Bruce Schuer, who said basically we won’t change our imperial attitude until we bite off more than we can chew and completely lose a field army or two in the process.
The more I think about just the volume of money involved (I mean one can only imagine billions or even trillion in the abstract sense), the more I come to realize it just doesn’t make sense for the people in charge to actually try to win these wars, or kill Baghdadi (that one video we have of him has been golden), etc. It’s amazing how much this stuff correlates with 1984.
Peace.
if the way it’s being done is moving chemical weapons into areas being attacked by Assad’s forces and then releasing them during an airstrike or artillery barrage then the russkis may initially have thought they hit a weapons store.
same as US observers may have genuinely thought the russkis/syrians dropped them because they were tracking the airstrike/barrage and then the chemicals were released.
normal people don’t think like psychopaths so they’ll think of non-psycho explanations first
“normal people don’t think like psychopaths so they’ll think of non-psycho explanations firs”
FSB and GRU are not normal people. Their job is to think like psychopaths which often they do because they also organize false flags when they need them.
Russia inept propaganda may results also from a guilty conscience, that’s why they are so pussy footing around the false flag. But the main reason is lack of imagination and not recognizing who really is the target of their propaganda as I pointed out in the comment #419 above.
Hey utu,
Indeed. The intelligence services of most states employ extremely sadistic and amoral people – especially in the areas of where interrogation or punishment is involved. Ours being no exception. Certain jobs attract certain personalities.
From what I’ve read – the absolute worst (at least in relatively recent history) was what the CIA taught and enabled at the hands of various pro-US governments in South America; priests, nuns –
raped and tortured. Horrific stuff – even worse than what I’ve heard about the Middle Eastern mukhabarat – and that’s saying a lot.
Good set of videos if you have time (from a woman whose investigations led to two senior CIA officers being fired):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbRr5btYRAU
Peace.
Actually, that’s not the way it works. Those “personalities” are identified and then recruited by intelligence services. Psychopaths need to do their thing, how and in what circumstances is merely incidental.
Hey JL,
This is true as well. I think it works from both angles.
Peace.
But it’s odd that the White Helmets just happened to be on the ground, and rapidly produced an HD video complete with a script that was read on most major media outlets within hours of the attack.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/04/11/assad-had-the-upper-hand-so-why-would-he-gas-his-own-people/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_39FpcOFtE
America will not allow the testimonies of the firefighters who were present on the 911 ground. They have raised all kind of unresolved holes in the government narrative.
America pays their salaries. White Helmet salary doesn’t come from Syria It is an organization created by USAID .
911 investigation was carried out by some sincere guys but mostly by guys with deep connection to the American regime .World is supposed to accept the findings . World is also supposed to change the rules and supposed to accept the determinations made by America on events that took place thousands of miles away from USA by organizations funded by USA.
This type of udacity and arrogance can’t be corrected by reason .
This quite is quite destructive and unpleasant to happen. How could Trump not do anything about this. Is he gonna go for his ambitions rather than making America great again ?