Top 10 Most Powerful Countries In 2011

The Chinese have an interesting concept that quantifies Great Power status, called Comprehensive National Power (CNP). This index is produced by processing the economic, military and cultural factors that make countries powerful: GDP, technological development, number of tanks and ICBM’s, as well as “softer” factors such as influence on global media and international institutions. Since I’m not a think-tank, I can’t be bothered doing it “scientifically” by coming up with formulas and looking up all the hundreds of relevant stats that typically go into CNP calculations. But it’s surely possible to make rough estimates. Here they are.

1. The USA is still undoubtedly the world’s leading superpower. It has China’s (gross) economic size, matches Russia’s strategic military power, and is as technologically advanced as Japan with 2.5x its population. Meanwhile, its conventional military power, power projection capabilities and cultural influence remain globally hegemonic. But its Number One position isn’t secure. Political capture by special interests at home and “imperial overstretch” abroad has made its fiscal situation patently unsustainable. This in turn threatens its dominant military position, especially coupled with accelerating Chinese military modernization. Finally, the very globalization that underpins Pax America also users in developments that actually undermine it, e.g. the economic rise of the BRICs and the growing influence of non-Western media outlets (e.g. Al-Jazeera, Russia Today). CNP – 100.

2. China is rapidly emerging as the next global superpower, now boasting the world’s largest manufacturing sector and (arguably) the biggest economy in terms of real GDP. Furthermore, they have calculatedly taken a lead in many of the world’s most prospective and hi-tech sectors, e.g. renewable energy, hi-speed railways and supercomputers. China’s rapid military modernization has already yielded it the world’s biggest navy by warship numbers and advanced drones and stealth fighters. This is all founded on a literate, 1.3bn-strong populace driving 10% economic growth rates (and there’s no reason these should fall drastically any time soon, since average Chinese incomes have plenty of space left to catch up with the West). Now assuming unforeseen shocks such as political collapse or an abrupt peaking and decline in coal production don’t derail progress, it’s very likely China will supplant the US as the global hegemon as early as 2020. CNP – 75.

3. Though Russia‘s population and real GDP (c. Germany) are respectable, they are out of the Big Two’s league (in terms of raw power, it was probably overtaken by China in 2008 because of the depth of its recession and Chinese military catch-up). Nonetheless, it may deserve the title of “third superpower” by dint of its nuclear parity with the US, military-industrial strength, and vast resource base. Covering northern Eurasia, and informally dominating Central Asia, Russia is both self-sufficient in energy and minerals, and has the armed strength to defend them. The world’s increasing food and fuel supply challenges place Russia in an enviable position to exploit its strength. Furthermore, global warming is melting the Arctic, opening up shipping routes, energy sources and living space – a development Russia is uniquely positioned to take advantage of. CNP – 60.

4. In terms of power politics, France is a lot like the US, just 5x smaller in scale. It is influential globally and in the EU, has a self-sustained nuclear arsenal and MIC, and its own semi-satrapies in West Africa. It also has the healthiest demographic indicators in ageing Europe; its economy is versatile, productive and robust; and its nuclear power industry and links with the Maghreb nations make for a (relatively) secure energy future. Overall, it is likely that France will be the predominant West European power of the next decades. CNP – 35.

5. Germany has a powerful economy, and its fiscal rectitude and export competitiveness have made it the dominant influence in the Eurozone. In the longterm, however, Germany’s prospects dim: its demographic problems are the most intractable in the European continent (fertility rates fell below 1.5 children per woman back in the 1970’s and remained there since). Hence the reliance on exports to provide savings for its rapidly aging population. What would Germany do if the Mediterranean breaks from the Eurozone and the outside world becomes more protectionist? Its conscript army is obsolete and nuclear weapons non-existent, but these can be quickly fixed. CNP – 30.

6. Japan is similar to Germany, but with 1.5x its population, several times its problems (e.g. even more rapidly aging population; 220%-of-GDP debt) and without Germany’s key advantage (a continental market). It is militarily weak and utterly reliant on food, fuel and mineral imports, many of which pass through waters over which China claims preeminence. Though one of the most technologically advanced nations on Earth, it faces an uncertain future as the US wanes and China’s rise eclipses it. But like Germany, it’s theoretically capable of rapid transformation into a leading military power. CNP – 30.

7. The UK is ostensibly similar to France, but has critical weaknesses that now undermine its Great Power status. It has a fiscal hole little better than that of Ireland or Greece; the current government is disinvesting in the future (university education) and the military; suffers from a smaller version of US “imperial overstretch”; is falling into an energetic black hole; and the City of London, which is a giant source of tax revenue, has poor longterm prospects. CNP – 25.

8. Though at first glance India might appear similar to China, or at least following in its footsteps, the real situation is far gloomier. The (educational) human capital of Chinese youth is now equal to (or above) the OECD rich country average; India still hasn’t finished eradicating illiteracy. This is of great import since educational levels are the single biggest influence on growth prospects. China has 10x more manufacturing output, 6x more Internet users and 3x more infrastructure spending. Though India’s land forces are more than capable of crushing Pakistan, its navy is quantitatively and qualitatively inferior to China’s, a matter of some import given that both countries are dependent on fuel and mineral supplies from the Middle East and Africa. And the precariousness of India’s food situation in a warming world – and its inability to pay for imports or seize them – makes its longterm prospects decidedly glum. CNP – 25.

9. With its ample lands and resources, not to mention its successes with sugar cane-derived ethanol, Brazil is set to enjoy – much like Russia – a comfortable existence as a regional hegemon in a world of rising demand for food, energy and minerals. (Though its military is much weaker than Russia’s, it doesn’t need to be particularly strong given Brazil’s geographical isolation). It is also playing an increasingly visible global role, together with countries like Turkey and South Africa, as a representative of “The Rest” (as distinct from “The West”). But its future prospects for true superpowerdom are constrained by its low educational human capital. CNP – 20.

10. Though Canada or South Korea or even Italy could just as easily take this spot, in the end I decided it should go to Turkey. It’s not just that it has a rapidly developing economy, or that it has the most powerful conventional forces in the Middle East, or that its control of river headwaters gives it leverage over states like Iraq and Lebanon. It is the major Muslim country that is most comfortable with integrating religious tradition with socio-economic modernity. This makes it a role model – and possible future leader – for many Muslims in the Middle East; then it also has ethno-linguistic connections with Turkic peoples to the east, in Azerbaijan, western Iran, and even Central Asia. Its soft power and willingness to exercise sovereignty in the international sphere earns it the tenth place. CNP – 20.

There are other countries with a similar CNP of 20. These include Canada (a potential future superpower as the Arctic opens up – assuming the US doesn’t swallow it first); South Korea (vibrant economic base, but has many of Japan’s strategic problems and is preoccupied with the North); and Italy (a modern France-sized economy but not much else).

Further down the list, with a CNP of 15, we get Saudi Arabia (world’s swing oil producer but backwards, politically fragile and reliant on US support); Iran (most visible challenger to the current international order and has leverage over its capability to shut down the Strait of Hormuz); Mexico; Australia; Spain; Venezuela (soft power through ideas of 21st century socialism); and South Africa (mineral resources and informal spokescountry for sub-Saharan Africa).

Note – So I don’t have to cover this in the comments. Many “analysts” will jump on my back for neglecting to mention the salubrious effects of India’s democracy, or how corruption dooms Russia to eternal slippage. The reason – as I’ve endlessly argued on this blog – is that these kinds of arguments are frequently flawed even where only living standards and civil rights are concerned (e.g. I’m sure the 47% of Indian children who are malnourished have nothing but praise for their glorious democracy, as does the rights activist Binayak Sen given a life sentence for supporting Maoism), not to mention completely nonsensical when comparing and projecting national power (e.g. Russia’s corruption is fairly standard for middle-income countries, and the Chinese authoritarian system of state capitalism has arguably very much helped rather than hindered its development).

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  1. “Japan is similar to Germany, but with 1.5x its population, several times its problems (e.g. even more rapidly aging population…”

    I don’t see aging as much of a problem. Ethic diversity, however, is a huge problem, since it always, without fail, 100% of the time leads to conflict. Germany is getting more and more diverse, while Japan is mostly staying homogeneous. Japan 1, Germany 0.

    By the way, the riots that recently went down in Moscow would have been unimaginable in the Moscow of my youth. This is because the Moscow of my youth was far more homogeneous than the modern city.

    “the current government is disinvesting in the future (university education)…”

    We disagree here. Educating the best of the best minds is always important, but that’s not where most of the money in modern higher ed goes. It goes into wasting the most productive years of millions of average minds on stuff they don’t need and cannot possibly find interesting, and on creating meaningless work for the people employed by the system. Britain’s spectacular past was full of world-transforming geniuses (Newton, Darwin, Faraday, Turing, etc.), yet for centuries the Brits seem to have only had two universities. It was enough. Civilization is moved forward by a few.

    “Though at first glance India might appear similar to China, or at least following in its footsteps, the real situation is far gloomier.”

    The Chinese tend to be proud of China. In contrast, I’ve heard Indians badmouth India on numerous occasions. This is because they tend to reserve their pride for their castes or religious communities instead. If no one identifies with the state, then no one will feel any compunction stealing from it and the state will always be weak. When I think of this sort of stuff, I’m always reminded of the phrase “за державу обидно” (“I feel sorry for the country”) from White Sun of the Desert. You can’t have a powerful state unless a lot of people feel that way.

    “This makes [Turkey] a role model – and possible future leader – for many Muslims in the Middle East…”

    That’s what the guys at the New York Times and the Economist want to believe. I don’t think secularism is likely to make anyone a role model in the Middle East. And as the West’s importance wanes, any prestige associated with being Westernized should go down, not up.

    • love your ideas about national pride

      • Justin tripathi says

        Although India has great military but it is greatest in corruption , so India is surely not a powerful country in terms of economy

        • ronak patel says

          yes,you are right…………

        • Guys this our problem we just complain, mourn we don’t react !!

        • you fool don’t you see the recent news that all european and american countries economy is the great loss.
          in this tremendous situation only india has it’s economy growing.I THINK YOU DON’T HAVE READ FROM “WIKIPEDIA” ITSELF THAT BT 2020 INDIA WILL HAVE YHE MOST POWERFUL ECONOMY……SO WAIT AND WATCH

          • Such a noob. Just GTFO if you can’t even comprehend the words on this page.

          • Vinay, the Indian economy is fueled by exports, predominantly those of raw manpower in the form of remote telecommunications and other data processing roles.

            If the West collapses, to whom will India sell its data processing services?

            Rest assured, as the US real estate market continues to plummet, local producers are finding the cost differential of Chinese and Indian labor no longer worth the price of shipping versus local-to-market production. If India doesn’t break out of its caste system and allow a substantial measure of home-grown consumerism to develop, its customer base will evaporate, and its economic power will go likewise.

          • My dear friends, undoubtedly all of us want to see our country India becoming a developed one. But, do you think it is going to be possible any time within a period of 50 years ? I don’t think so, mainly because the meaning of a Developed Nation’ means much much more than what we generally understand. Just have a look into our surroundings; how ugly, unhygienic and unhealthy it is. Look at the colonies and slums where million of out own people live. Look at the children, perforce to beg and live on road sides without a good piece of cloth. Think about the millions of people and children without having food to survive. Look at the schools where even a bathroom is not available for children and even to the teachers and where such facilities are available, what is the standard of it ? Think about the quality of drinking water, food products and medicines available in our country for common man. These are just a few examples. We can list so many justifications for this poor state of ours. But, we must understand that this is not the situation in any of the Developed Nations. So, how can we expect that by 2020 or even by 2050, this condition is going to be eradicated and we would become the citizens of such a Developed Nation.

            • Exactly. Now someone is being reasonable and sees all sides of the issues.

              • HI RICK,

              • I Think This Is Doll India Is A Poor Country They Hardly Can Offerd Proper Clothes What ,Makes U Think They Can Have A Really Powerful Army.I’m Sorry Indians If This Effects You I Am Just Trying To Prove A Poit :’)

            • Thats True. Many nations are faaaaaaar ahead of us as far as Living standard (or almost any other standard) is concerned. We have big Military and High GDP. Not because of high earning people. But only due to huge population. 1200 USD per year multiplied by 1.25 billion. ….

              We, in totality can spend more on Science and Tech and military just because of huge GDP. Though even small % of GDP too is quite high amount ! Our Large % of GDP goes just for basic things like feeding people and subsidies !

              It will take an “age” just to call ourselves as “initial level developed Nation”. Till then, we will be happy with small things here and there.. like “voila we acquired a position in this Top Ten List !!! (how come ! , dont know !, but lets be proud of ) “, ” Large number of doctors, Engineers in USA are Indian.”, “Number of billionaires ! ”

              But we are progressive, We are going into right direction. We should be thankful to our leaders that they chose balanced and non aligned path. We have courage to support Palestine despite of fact that Israel needs us, US needs us against Iran, Myanmar, China…
              We were not opportunists (Enemy’s Enemy is our friend, no) …
              We will be having better positions as times passes. Due to our large population we will have higher status in near future(2025-2050) , but later in far future, same population (aged) will face irreversible issues.

              • ‘An Attempt To Educate’
                Its really heart-breaking to see that ‘Indians Abroad’=Western Indians don’t have so much respect=knowledgeas that they have for a retro culture like westernism.We Indians had done a lot for the Brits in ways of ‘economism’ where the Brits are saying that ‘they made India’.Is this justifiable??Brits came to take the source of the trade they found in Middle East which they needed to have to maintain their empirical persona thus to rule the world.They didn’t have the gut s to do that to China but Middle East and India because these 2 place was and still is a friendly nation not that Chinese are not but Chinese are very ‘self-contained’ and “hardly allows for foreign influence” but except for the person named Siddarth who founded Buddhism who was from India.Thus is the greatness of ‘Indiansim’=Hinduism which is losing its place by any =REPUTATION in the Indian Heart because now in this so-called modern world where “modernism means the betterment of the past” but seems nothing of that sort because of some ‘Green Ass’ western leadership who main motive is profit by any means even though they will take nothing .I don’t have any negativity towards them whatsoever even though they seem to be doing illtreatment’ to their own peoples world over.At the same time productive nations are falling victims to these ‘Western policies just because the peoples of these nations tend to be lazy thus will always be overruled by ‘kingstigators’.You seem to lag behind because you always think like a ‘follower’ the essence of leadership is taken out of your life style by the so-easy to adopt western culture.When Hinduism is and will be the first religion of the world meaning the first civilization meaning the first form of governance to direct a large nation statistically.When ‘Mahatama Gandhi’=Bappu,for the ‘goodwill,betterment and primacy’ instigated AUTURKY where he temporarily banned trade with western nations was because ‘He knew that India has the power to be self-sufficient’and this is the proudest thing for ‘Indians’.I mean only Indians and not those nations who looked for ways to weaken the Indian Unity by crying for independence in the times of needs of a unison amongst the Indians.Despite being under political and economical pressure ‘The Indian Government’ let them have their way and despite this they tried to created problems for the Indians in the form fear=TERRORISM.
                Now these Western governments are using the immigration system to empty these self-sufficient nations of educated people by bribing them and pulling them towards them.This creates a sense of insecurity for countries like maybe India but surely for countries like Indonesia,Thailand, and other resourceful countries.Its because these people who don’t take pride in being of a nationality that’s economically weak in comparison with Western nations.But remember first that these Western nations “except for Canada” has in a way fraudulently taken the rights of millions of people and has directly affected their countries economy.
                This was in the darkness but thanks a lot to George Bush who clearly indicated and exemplified these so-called rich bloodsuckers intentions who are draining the happiness of the future of these hard working nations people.They take their privileges and makes them believe that their isn’t a good future and security in their own nation by creating a social and economical indifference.These started a long time ago in Europe in Napoleonic times. Please visit for a better understanding.One needs to gain a better understanding of the present situation of the world and an evil person’s infatuation with gold.That led the Brits to India and the 300year long enslavement of the Indians and their country and the country’s economy. Even WWI was won with India’s gold that was used to buy the Arabs unfavourableness for the other Muslim nations of Middle East.One needs to understand the past nicely to know the situation of present times.



              ok now that your done boasting about being an Indian and us Americans really you have no idea about india and trust me i would hate to see what you guys think of as a so called “new world” so when you talk please don’t make your self look dumb 🙂

            • i really like ur thought!!!
              This is the example of true confidence which every indian needs but unfortunately we are lagging behind in this!!! We indians are just blemming each other and crying for only facilities but some people forget that to get some thing we need to work hard
              And i m sure people like you can change the nation!!!
              Keep going mr. Khan!!!

          • I see the Indian education system Is doing you justice

          • no matter indians like live in dreams….

          • yes yor are right…

            india on 8th …..hahahahahahahaahaha

        • I cannot agree with you because India is a powerful country and also a developing country by all means .Next decade in the world is the decade of India

        • One thing for surely,India has survived-AUTARKY -economic self-sufficiency: an economic policy or situation in which a nation is independent of international trade and not reliant upon imported goods
          Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
          Mahatma Gandhi made a name for India and Indians.We were called a self-sufficient government and a ‘most religious country in the world’ and this means a beautiful thing for humanity.Now I see how Indians of the new generation are losing that status.There is not much respect for Indians abroad due to Bollywood’s portrayal of what Indians are.Being modern and being self-sufficient government is what modernism calls for.Of course you can’t stop the negative influences infection but one can be strong towards their self-esteem.
          When it comes to ‘economy’,India hasn’t taken any major loans from the world bank and European banks sees this thus will try to bring India
          to a state of indebtedness.But European banks also knows that India has a big lesson learning experience from Britain and I hope with all my heart that India remains obligated to its state of self-sufficient economy because the West will make a joke of India because of how India humiliated Brits and got them out after 300yrs of slavery=colonialism.

          • Its really heart-breaking that ‘Indians Abroad’=Western Indians don’t have so much respect=knowledgeas that they have for a retro culture like westernism.We Indians had done a lot for the Brits in ways of ‘economism’ where the Brits are saying that ‘they made India’.Is this justifiable??Brits came to take the source of the trade they found in Middle East which they needed to have to maintain their empirical persona thus to rule the world.They didn’t have the gut s to do that to China but Middle East and India because these 2 place was and still is a friendly nation not that Chinese are not but Chinese are very ‘self-contained’ and “hardly allows for foreign influence” but except for the person named Siddarth who founded Buddhism who was from India.Thus is the greatness of ‘Indiansim’=Hinduism which is losing its place by any =REPUTATION in the Indian Heart because now in this so-called modern world where modernism means the betterment of the past but seems nothing of that sort because of some ‘Green Ass’ western leadership who main motive is profit by any means.I don’t have any negativity towards them whatsoever even though they seem to be doing illtreatment’ to their own peoples world over.At the same time productive nations are falling victims to these ‘W policies just because the peoples of these nations tend to be lazy thus will always be overruled but ‘kingstigators’

      • Whr is india???india is powerful!!

    • Being Indian, I really like your idea about India, which is quite true. However your perspective is wrong. I have traveled extensively in India, also have made few trips to US, France and China.

      There is a huge difference between the people who live in India and Indians living abroad. Indians, if they like the culture they immigrated to, generally adopt that culture. They don’t generally like to impose their culture onto others. Its for the same reason that you don’t find Indians promoting Hindi (language) in the international arena. For the same reason, many emigrated Indians would, in point blank, criticize India. However I always felt it as a perverted love towards India, just like a grandmother would criticize her grandchildren.

      Within India its a totally different ball game. In spite of all the corruption, caste, religion, varied languages, there is a sense of unity in the country. Many scholars have tried to identify this unity on different levels, none of which were spot on. It works, till it works, that is my idea about it. In-short, within India expect for small separatist movements, which India has to suffer owing to its disparity, there is no question about unity.

      points to ponder:
      1) I regularly go through blogs and here are some of my interesting finds.
      a) Most discussions, posts and replies are by Americans, Few EU countries, Indians and Pakistanis.
      b) You never find a Chinese or Russian in these discussions. I think they don’t give a shit about discussions and stuff. They are go getters.
      c) Indian’s response almost always shall be projecting India as super power (hi hi i kinda like it). Also few expletives towards Pakistanis.
      d) Pakistanis response would always be, why Pakistan is not in the so called lists, Pakistan has nukes, Pakistan has huge army, India is shit.
      e) Now an American would give some strategic replies, most of the time criticizing US (I never understand, why?), criticizing its current president, few supporting it and finally few expletives towards Muslims, oh did I mention, blaming everything on Mexicans and Latinos.
      f) Finally a secular broad minded European would pick up all the heat, try to make amends and then a foot note,” Its all politics you know”[email protected] Hi hi I love you guys…Hugs and Kisses

      • Chrisius Dossius Optimus Maximus says

        Well there is no such thing as Indian national culture and India does not have a national language to promote.

        • Your general knowledge is amazing.

          • Not really. This is something everyone should be aware of, just like knowing about other countries as well. If you don’t even know simple things like these, how can you expect to discuss about worldly affairs? But yea, it’s good to be knowledgeable.

        • well, I agree with lots of comments. But one thing is not in favour of china is that it is a communist country, and more often than not whatever reports facts and studies we get is govt oriented. Also , when there is no freedom of expression, people view points r suppressed. China is facing huge corruption and divide between rich and poor is increasing there.
          India lacks a political will power because of so much diversity.and Bristish oriented constitution…
          China is rising for sure but I am not sure how much people r rising.
          In the long run I see, US, China and Russia emerging as super global powers , but whoever will get the support of India , would fill more powerful….

          • How can you say that being a communist country China looses its points? Actually you should learn more of communism. Communism doesn’t mean corruption and lack of freedom cause take most of non-communist countries like India, Italy or even the US and you’ll see that they are not less corrupted than China. If you are able to see anything at all, I mean.

            • He meant totalitarian, not communist. (totalitarianism is a government policy, communism is an economic policy. China is no longer communist, but is still totalitarian.) People who don’t know the difference often confuse the two, and you should have corrected it instead of deviating from the subject.

              He meant that the government influence negates the people’s “rise”. Because China has a totalitarian-like government, it’s basically the gov that does all the studies (which have very high probabilities of being biased), and all the controlling and whatnot. The people have very little influence on what China, as a whole, does.

            • Spare me communism never means more freedom, the Chinese very well may be allowed to decide what they want to eat at night but important, life changing decisions are generally made by the government. The USA by giving China technologies to help it become more economically capitalist has created a monster. An economically viable form of Communism. The lack of “corruption” as you put it is ridiculous, corruption in a communist government is far harder to quantify simply because the government has unlimited power already.

        • From a perspective,knowing the origins of civilization and religion that begat cultures,Indian Hinduism is still the most inspiring and the most literate where the rest branched out later.It’s the outside influence that has done the greater damage at an international level to the peoples of India but they still have have a most beautiful culture and tradition and that is what the rest is bound to criticize.The colours are so beautiful!

        • As you said that India doesn`t have a national language to promote , you are wrong.We have Hindi as our national language and we can promote it.

          • Yea it’s “national”cause the government decreied it to be. But it’s not the only language in India. That’s what it means to not be the national language.

            • Hindi is the local language of the North. It isn’t of the South and it would lead to a big competitive advantage for Northern people. Seeing that the South is the more developed area this would lead to serious internal strife.

              • Yes I know this already. But the government gave Hindi the national language label. (Others should have that label too, and some do). That’s what I was saying, I wasn’t addressing the problems with this declaration, which you were.

              • for ur kind infotmn hindi is not a national language of INDIA it is one of the 21 official languages of is democratic country, any decision is taken with consent of all region’s representatives kuchh bolne se pehle sochh liya karo

              • India does not have any national language and it can’t also as its has over 18 major languages spoken in different parts,
                Hindi was made the official language of India as it was the majority spoken language and by far the medium of communication in major parts of India including todays Pakistan by passing a bill in parliament after the Independence and was largely opposed by the southern states parties and MP’s, but eventually the bill was passed with the special voting power of the speaker as it was a tie…!

            • India has no national language, government sanctioned or otherwise. The only people who claim Hindi as a national language are the Hindi chauvinists of North India, which has no official sanction. Article 323 of the Indian Constitition, specifies that while Hindi is given the status of an official language along with English and 18 other state languages, there is no national language in India.

          • India has no language, get your facts right

        • Chrisius you dumbass,
          There is no Indian national culture?
          Says who? Ignorant Europeans like you should just shut up.

          India was and is a predominantly Hindu country with Hindu
          culture and civilization. The language that has given us our
          national cultural identity is the Sanskrit language. Sanskrit
          has always been the cultural and national language of India.
          The Vedic Hindu civilization and heritage is rooted in Sanskrit
          and it is pan-Indian all the way.

          Hindi is spoken by most Indians, like 700 million so it is
          another national language. If Indians want to they can make
          Sanskrit or Hindi the national language.

          • Lol, try saying that to people in the South and West or wherever. THERE IS NO NATIONAL CULTURE. Saying that there is one makes YOU the very ignorant person that you were trying to label that guy.

            There are so many different cultures in India, you’ve just become ignorant and “brainwashed” with the “Hindu culture” (maybe you’re Hindu yourself so that’s why) that you’ve forgotten about the other religions, cultures, languages of the Indian subcontinent. (Btw Sanskrit is not related to this, so idk why you brought it up).

            • It was interesting reading your biased comments, and you someow sounded european until the real “pakistani” in you came out… Shame on you man !! hiding behind a seemingly english name to malign India…!! GTFO..!!!

              • curious third party says

                Hmm…so is Rick correct? instead of name calling, what are your counter arguements…?

        • If everyone in this world was as knowledgable as you, I would not want to be a part of it. GFY.

      • a) Most discussions, posts and replies are by Americans, Few EU countries, Indians and Pakistanis. b) You never find a Chinese or Russian in these discussions. I think they don’t give a shit about discussions and stuff. They are go getters.

        That is because most Chinese and Russians, including those who use the Internet, don’t know English well enough to comment. There are a lot of places on the Internet where they discuss political issues in their own languages.

        The “few EU countries” you’re speaking of will mostly be Scandinavia and Germany, the only regions of Europe where most people have an adequate level of English knowledge. Anyone well off enough to have Internet access in India or Pakistan will almost certainly be able to write English.

        • I think I will have to agree to that…but then discussing in languages other than English don’t quite cut it, ain’t it?

        • Very true. With one quarter of the world internet users, Chinese are used to talk to themself, and they have enough mass to talk (argue) about any topics. Even in US, English speaking Chinese have their Chinese forum. I know 3 of them. 10s of thousands Chinese visit those Chinese forum every day. One hot topic will be read by thousands in a few hours.

        • Scandinavia and Germany are the only regions of Europe where most people have an adequate level of English? Where do you think the English language originated? I’m thinking the people of England, or the whole of the UK for that matter, have a decent understanding of the language.

          • He was obviously disregarding the anglophone countries. Why would you even need to mention the UK when it’s assumed that people know? Of course, you were obviously too thick-headed to figure that out.

        • Or maybe it’s because some Chinese people just prefer to lay back and read what other people are gabbling. Peace out.

      • Hey dude u feel good and bad towards India but u should remember that more than half of the states speaks of its regional languages but not Hindi we should always accept the truth that every state population in India is equal to European countries populations and why won’t we consider Sanskrit as national language from where all languages had derived .Majority of states in India speak regional languages than Hindi states which are 12 (India had 28 states in present).

        we respect all our cultures you would have Traveled all over world you can’t see one religion giving respect to another but my country gives respect to all saying we are (Indians)Bharatiy we move in welfare as one united show the country like India inspite of saying we are undeveloped , economically and Illiterate .

        *Yes we r not as good as china in production of exports after 5-10year we almost give the same compete exports to china and rest world.
        *Literacy is a great problem we are 74% in 2011 but according to so many surveys we will be climbing to 92-94% in 2031.
        *In military advancements Bharat(India) is spending as much as china their will slight differences due to the currencies value of yuan is far good than rupee.
        *According to UNO Bharat is highest exporter of arms in the world.
        *Bharat(10.4) GDP is almost more than china(10.3)in 2011.
        *So many countries insult us in researches as all know but no one knews that nearly 38% scientists in NASA are Indians every country have Indian scientists working for other countries but their forgot us and hasn’t return to their own country.We are going ahead with out them.We are not dead yet brother.
        *Proud to say that we are Indians we won’t support any religion but we respect truth.
        *After the collapse of world trade center in America every one over their had looked Islamic people as enemies am i wrong world even knows it.
        *But you say we are not had unity. After 26/11 in India we never looked any one as enemies but every INDIAN want to fought against terrorism.
        * If one great leader rules our country we will always be ahead.
        *I don’t want to humiliate any one but we can point out where we are behind comparing other developed countries.

      • If you want the Chinese perspective on these matters (in English language) – I can advise you to check the blog Hidden Harmonies –> .

        Their motto, by the way, is similar to that of Sublime Oblivion. That is they present a non-Western point of view on their country.

        By the way, enter a search term “India” and you will get few interesting posts on Sino-Indian relationships – including “India’s China envy”.

    • Jyoti Swaroop says

      Do not compare China and India. They are two very different nations with different types of governments and cultures.

      To evaluate the “power” of a country, you have to consider the following:
      1. Military Power
      2. Nuclear Capability
      3. Long-term economic growth potential
      4. International Presence and geographic location
      5. Technological Prowess
      6. Renewable and Non-renewable Energy Resources
      7. Country’s Space Programs and Communications
      8. Government stability

      1. Now if you consider India, it has the second largest standing army. It has a Navy and an Air-force but they aren’t competitive enough.
      2. It is a proven Nuclear power, with the world’s largest thorium resources (Thorium is more energetic than Uranium for civilian purposes but cannot be weaponized).
      3. Economically, India has a lot of catching-up to do and hence the potential (It is already the third largest country by GDP PPP). GDP growth-rate is high with little signs of slowing down. Its economy was little affected by the recession and is not over-dependent on either imports or exports. It has good foreign exchange reserve (thanks to the many Indians outside India). It has reached a good balance between an open and a closed economy.
      4. India has good relations with the US, Russia, the UK and Japan. It has a bad history with China, but is improving on it. Infact, Pakistan is a bigger threat to India.
      5. Technologically, India has yet to make its mark. The development of world-class technical schools shows a positive sign in this direction. Opening of the economy from the 1990s has brought in investments and many technology and other companies have started their Indian offices and operations.
      6. Non-renewable energy resources: India is dependent on petroleum imports from the middle-east. Although it has good amount of coal and natural gas resources.
      Renewable: It has plenty of sunshine, a large coastline, many rivers across different terrains, and abundant thorium deposits.
      7. India has a very successful space program.
      8. India has a true democracy, and the government as a whole is robust and adaptable to change. The political party in power changes and its agenda can adapt, but the government won’t fall that easily.

      Comments, discussions and corrections appreciated!

      • The democracy is a slight problem. Too many people in India. Nothing gets done lol. But democracy is good (mostly), so nvm.

        • It is very hard to rule such a multi ethnic country which doesn’t have one group as a clear majority or even a blocking minority with any system that isn’t pluralistic as it would lead really soon to a situation were the people wouldn’t think they were ruled by our people but their
          people. This is not such a big problem when those people are a tiny minority such as the English were in India but it is when the minority has a percentage in the single digits.

        • Oh, that’s why you guys in Pakistan invite the military to topple the civilian govt and rule you !! huh !!!

      • Yet we(India) face corruption.
        *Its the most sad issue of all the problems we are facing.
        *China wants to symbol of communism and so much of inner revolution had even happened in china by its youth who want democracy but instead of respecting people words china banned social networking sites facebook,twitter by people were knowing the fruits of democracy and revolting against communist government.
        *china had alot of fear of inner revolution and even kept limitations to the media in such away that noting about the revolution should be published.
        *Even Russia had suggested about this problem but china communist party hadn’t changed its way.
        *I’am lucky to be in democratic country where people rule themselves not like dictator of only and lonely communist party in china which is ruling from its independence.

        • You’re saying this as if most people in China want a democracy. A few youths protesting isn’t the majority you know. China is ruled by the majority. You can claim the Communist Party is a dictatorship, but that would be completely wrong as a dictatorship is rule by a single person, such as Stalin.

          • China should be a Democratic nation given its size and ancient cultural history, if this happens believe it or not it will help India and China both tremendously…outcasting the western power..
            May be this sound not good to west tough…!

      • I agree that India has the one of largest thorium deposits of the world but India is still working to develop successful design of nuclear plants working on thorium, other wise it was not at all required for India to make a nuclear deal with the US.
        Another thing is the the nuke arsenal of India is not as capable as China (forget US or even Russia, both assumed to have about 50 MT capacity of nuke bomb), which has its largest nuke bomb of power of 5 MT, India had done successful nuke explosion in Pokhran of about 200 KT capacity which is still 10 times more than the Hiroshima or Nagasaki nuke bombs, but nothing compared to China’s ability.

        Also India has only 100-120 nuke arsenal same does Pakistan…China about 250-300 approx.( no one knows about nuke arsenal of China not even US intelligence)

        Given all these India is a nuke power but only it can be used as a retaliation against China or Pakistan not as a Deterrent…

    • 38% of Doctors in America are Indians.
      12% of Scientists in America are Indians.
      36% of NASA employees are Indians.
      34% of MICROSOFT employees are Indians.
      28% of IBM employees are Indians.
      17% of INTEL employees are Indians.
      13% of XEROX employees are Indians.
      You may know some of these facts. These
      facts were recently published in a German
      Magazine, which deals with


      A . Albert Einstein said: We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.

      B . Mark Twain said: India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history,the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most constructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only.

      C . French scholar Romain Rolland said: If there is one place on the face of earth where all the dreams of living men have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India.

      D . Hu Shih, former Ambassador of China to USA said:India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border.

      “Many of the advances in the sciences
      that we consider today to have been made in Europe
      were in fact made in India centuries ago.”

      – Grant Duff
      British Historian of India

      “India was the motherland of our race
      and Sanskrit the mother of Europe’s languages.
      India was the mother of our philosophy,
      of much of our mathematics, of the ideals embodied in christianity… of self-government and democracy.
      In many ways, Mother India is the mother of us all.”
      – Will Durant
      – American Historian 1885-1981

    • Mmm, nice one but a few things to add.
      First- Chinas is far behind the USAs even if you consider the GDP ppp (not nominal) its still less than half. So no, its not close and its will still take 10-15 years before i reaches parity. second you totally forget the EU but I guess you dont think they will exist or will be any dominant power in the future. I would estimate the EU population by 2030 to be over 600 mio. people with Ukraine and others joining soon and even higher if Turkey joins. The GDP of the EU is already at this point about 16 trill USD which is about 2 trill usd more than that of the USA. the combined military spending is only half of that of the US but could easily grow to the same level if needed be. EU chooses to spend their money on renewables like windpower and solar than tanks and rockets. People think that this crises is weakening the EU and i would eventually resolve but they are wrong. It will only make the EU stronger and more united ( with or without the UK) they are now forcing reforms on the southern economies which would otherwise never have been accepted by the people and its done in a very short time. It might be painfull for the people now, but at the end of the day they will get growth back faster than ever before. Watch the EU in the future cos its the next superpower!

  2. “I don’t see aging as much of a problem. Ethic diversity, however, is a huge problem, since it always, without fail, 100% of the time leads to conflict.”
    Right, see under: United States of America, Jews, Catholics and Asians. Diversity, if it can be managed, can be a real power multiplier: it means a country can draw from an infinitely greater pool of human capital. This is the story of the immigrant nations – the U.S. and the former Dominions – and why they have grown exponentially in size and power over two centuries (overtaking the more “pure” old nations of Europe and Northeast Asia). The ability to deal with diversity, both international and international, is critical to the EU’s ability to turn itself into a genuine power in the future.

    I’m not sure how useful CNP is as a concept, but it certainly is fun to compare. I think Russia is rated rather too high, and Japan rather too low, other than that I approve (and this can hardly be scientific after all).

    • The issues of CONSERVING CIVILIZATIONS and how the human leaders of some nations acted on the issue and are still at it, is having a dramatic,negative impact on the essence of the psyche of the populations.How do you feel when you find out that the Palestinian children do not know what chocolate tastes like?This is a very emotionally devastating matter to deal with especially in this ‘so-called modern world’ and I don’t know what actions the ‘child welfare’ would take first if it was up to them decide on these children’s future life.Would they take sides? Eg. Like that kid Muslim so he does not deserve the best piece of chocolate and or will it be ‘that one seems like will do us big profit if we put him on drug trafficking because no one will suspect’ or even further, that girl will make us a lot of money if we start using her as a child prostitute’.I do not mean to be to rude or prejudice but,these are some new money making methods losers adapt to nowadays.But what will be better,to prostrate yourself or have a drug/prostitution ring.But the US is using the most inhumane method.First they make friends with an oil rich country than supplies them with LOW-TECH. WEAPONS than devices a way to cause enmities with that country, and than eventually invades it at a very short notice without any terms or conditions.They finally make their moves in capturing the OIL WELLS.This has happened in Libya.When NATO struck, the first thing they did was to take control of the OIL PUMPS/REFINERIES.Than the OIL finally went to that country that had it under its name in WWII,which France.Yes,the caviar eating,stink mouth French people.
      They did not think about the future of the locals of that land.But again the biggest fault is the governments.Why didn’t they treat the people good in the first place.Remember, the crusaders?,well the modern day Israelites/jews are the descendants of the crusaders.It was greed back then and its greed,still now.What will you call these “DRINK THE BLOOD & EAT THE FLESH” type of people.Remember “they believe in the son of GOD who was SENT DOWN FROM HEAVEN who gave his disciples/followers his blood to drink and his flesh to eat” and its these ones who are doing the killing and shedding innocent blood all over the world right now, even as you read this.
      PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF I HAVE SAID ANYTHING WRONG, but if its right than you are cool and I know that you will make the best choices when it’ll come to making analysis.

      • “the modern day Israelites/jews are the descendants of the crusaders”
        Well … an Hystory lesson:
        Israelies are the natives of the land of Israel more then 3000 years.
        The invaders are the moslem arabs about 1000 years ago. Israelies where driven out by Romans in the 1st century, and many came back 300 years ago.
        Israel was settled by moslems Somroniens (some jewish tribe) jews and cristians. In 1948 there were about 600000 jews in Israel.

        • Well, according to whom is this little piece of history lesson you are telling me.The only modern day evidence is that British and French explorers were the first to get at the historical sites and saw something they did not like e.g the truth about the crusaders and the israelites thus decided to change the evidence which they really good at and made a fool out of the world’s peoples.Because theirs no evidence of israelites captivity in Egypt or coming out of Egypt or anywhere but only are words written by some lying nations conspiring theories.The bible itself is a collection of books from the Koran and the N.T. is recited from the ‘Bhagwath Geeta’ ok friend.Now,when war happened then where did the crusaders/israelites go then?They went back to where they came from ie.France,Britain and the other parts of Europe and not run to a neighbouring nation where they’ll find some refuge but instead chose to go so far away where they know they will be safe-their own country.Than after the founding of oil in the Mid.East,these western nations(no offense but only the truth) conspired needed to have the source of energy because they found out its importance.If it was’t for the west and the jews,the Muslims would be the richest people on GOD ALMIGHTY’S Earth.Now you can see to whom the promise was made to.The Muslim faith is very different from the western faith in terms of sex and policies compared to western beliefs.You can see the authenticity in the Muslim religion which the west condemns.Seems like the Muslims have been protecting something in their faith and doesn’t want to let go of.What about the authenticity of the christian faith of “Eat The Flesh and Drink The Blood in GOD’S son’s memory”.Remember “fallen angels are on earth and not in Heaven and always tries to wrong the truth about the True God Almighty” that’s why jesus couldn’t save himself when he was asked to by one of the thieves beside him on Mt.Calvary.The western leaders has kept the truth away from it people and thus you see the results of it in the world and also you see that GOD ALMIGHTY has bought down a punishment upon the nations peoples who have been doing atrocities on the Muslims-the western nation are killing themselves with drugs and diseases.Atleast the Palestinians are dying of hunger and not of these sickly diseases.I respect THE ALMIGHTY GOD and believe and see his doings on the nations and the daughters of the nations which are supposed to be the pride are acting very humiliating manner for the reputation of the nation itself.Even the bible says it that I GOD ALMIGHTY WILL SHOW THE NAKEDNESS OF THE DAUGHTERS OF MY PEOPLES ENEMIES TO THE WORLD AND THE SONS WILL BE HELPLESS…
          What do you have to say about this now friend??

          • You’re so disillusioned, it’s sad… and you can’t even get your ideas out in a coherent manner. Wtf are you saying, friend?

          • Soul Speek says

            You must be a madrassa educated rabid mozzie or one of knicker wearing bhagwa brigade member with a skewed knowledge of world history and religions. Jesus came almost 600 years before Prophet Mohammad so your comment that bible is abridged from Koran is hilarious. And N.T. stories from Bhagwat Gita? Are you drunk? I challange you to give me EVEN ONE EXAMPLE to prove your point.

            • soul speak, you are right Christianity was born earlier than Islam…and i think this guy (Indiansays) has gone insane….
              So u must also know that, Buddhism even before Christianity(600 years before Jesus) and Hinduism is the Oldest Religion of the world, but whom r u referring as knicker wearing Bhagwa brigade….
              I think RSS but its a socially active national organization with humanitarian causes….why r u so sick minded towards such an organization…

          • How can 33 crores images can be GOD, one is creater another is care taker one is destroyer, etc etc. Trees, stones,rat,cow,sun, moon, stars are Gods, how can the things which does not speak or listen become Gods or it may be deaf Gods. Try to think before you comment. Bible is the source for every thing where u find right from the creation to end of the world. FYI…dont forget about AD and BC..

          • I don’t know u (Indiansays) man but think u r a Muslim and like to hate the west world. I would advice u not to involve God in the worldly matters. Did God Himself came in front of you said the rubbish of making naked the Daughters of enemy…….and all that shit.

            As far as Islam is concerned it needs a rehab by its majority of fundamentalist followers…. u see it was established in central Asia some 1400 years ago by Mohamed Paygamber to make shun, the people living in that region, the violence, ambiguous beliefs in different deities and evil customs prevailing at that time…so given todays contemporary way of life all that fundamentalism that has developed during past 1400 years owing to Islam(Have I to you give the examples of brutal and evil Islamic rulers and Sultans.) should be shunned and all the fundamentalists should follow a rather moderate way of Islam…otherwise the conflict between west and Islam will go on and it will be the Islam on the loser side anyway, given todays facts….
            Also Islam was propagated by large by the evil Islamic Rulers and Sultans like Mohamed. Ghazni and Mohamed. Ghauri forcibly, so large population of Muslims Today approx. 1.62 billion is largely thankful to these Sultans.

    • Dude Indian had all the citizens around the world in it .

      *You left Islam we can say easily that your are an american
      *Its almost impossible that no manage the relationship between islam and chirstianity.
      *So your dream never ever come true( United States of America, Jews, Catholics and Asians. Diversity, if it can be managed, can be a real power multiplier: it means a country can draw from an infinitely greater pool of human capital. This is the story of the immigrant nations)

      • Simply the dream of your is nothing but India. Just search blogs of all sites you got then tell the answer of yours

  3. Windthorst says

    Good evening,

    One point ahead: For the German Armed Forces, conscription will be abolished from this year on, so there will be a professionals-only army from 2012 on.

    I am surprised by 3rd place for the Russian Federation and finding Brazil ranked that low: although you recognised Germany’s demographic problem, you did not mention the severe state of Russia’s TFR, further worsened through emigration and inability to compete with Western Europe to compete for Eastern European high potentials.
    And at least what the Western media tell, the Russian Armed Forces are not really to in a good shape and Russian politicians seem to be aware of it, as shown in the Kyrgyzstan crisis and the inability to drive the US out of Central Asia.
    So perhaps Russia should be downgraded to rank, that its wealth of resources and strategic position are justifying.

    For Brazil, it seems also important that they could achieve a status in South America, that Germany or France have in the European Single market, which could boost Brazil’s ranking, helped by having a huge country, healthy demographics and a good economy.

    Greetings from Germany

    • 1. The difference between the depth of Germany’s and Russia’s demographic problems are subtle but very significant. First, the FRG’s TFR dropped below 1.5 in 1973; Russia in 1993. That’s a 20 year gap. Second, in recent years Russia’s TFR shows signs of recovery (rising to 1.6 in 2010) while Germany’s remains stuck at 1.4.

      2. Russia has positive net immigration.

      3. Kyrgyzstan and driving the US out of Central Asia are primarily political, not military issues. There are of course many problems with corruption, inefficiencies and low morale in the Armed Forces, but that doesn’t change the fact that (1) Russia has the world’s joint-biggest strategic forces – as well as by far the most tactical nukes, and (2) a huge quantity of military hardware and MIC production potential.

      4. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. With the sole exception of economic size and population, Russia is in a similar league to the Big Two in the military sphere and international sphere (through the UN, G8, etc) – and has a huge advantage in resources per capita.

      5. I think Brazil’s biggest problem is its low human capital. If you look at international standardized test scores, it is far below the developed OECD countries, China and Russia. It is impossible to effect economic catch-up when your population is far less skilled than those you seek to follow.

      • Windthorst says

        Thanks for the reply, AK.

        For 1. My point was not to compare Russian with German demographics, but that for the 3rd rank the Russian demographics is pretty bad. Especially if the boarders are contested. BTW, any country in the world would look good next to Germany in this matter. Beating Germany in demographics is like beating Iraq in public safety.

        For 2. I didn’t know that, but isn’t there still the problem, that the well educated are leaving for the west and are replaced by poorly educated southerners.

        For 3. Ok, I did not intend to make a scenario where Russia and the US are fighting about Central Asia, but there were some comments by the former ambassador of India to Moscow that if the Russian Army had the belief to be able to handle the Kyrgyzstan crisis they would have provided immediately troops to suppress the riots and I think he has some point.

        For 4. I agree on resources and international reputation as the Russian Federation exercises some influence also in the OSCE, the SCO and has good relations with most medium and major powers. But not any more in the terms of military.

        For 5. I agree on that. But still, with Brazil future dominating Mercosur there is are really bright prospects. Most Chinese university students do not meet international standards either, but they are on place two anyway.


        • the Russian’s don’t actualy care about others, they don’t wanna get involved in news for doing good things their not a show of, and anyway they want US to do so as the head of the UN they want US to feel what it’s like to be depended on by others.

          • What have russia done ? Im british and this list has it reason and the ranking is “right”. My opinion the whole world should be thankful that there is a country thown as the USA ! They saved the ******* world in world war 2 ! They were everywhere in the world fighting the douches that were with Nazi-Deutschland. And Russia have a terrible reputation and history, theres two main devils that ever lived and one of them is a Russian ( Josehp stalin)! America are the police of the world and having that weight on their shoulders can be hard and money taking ! They are my opinion the smartest country with Germany and Japan, GDP per capita is higher than Germanys even though they have 310million people ! And much higher than third world countries like China and India !

            • Haha angryguy here^

              Why don’t you get educated first before trying to reply to something you don’t even understand?

              And your English sucks so much I’m horrified that you are trying to represent Britain and the USA. Just shutup and let the educated people do the talking here ok?

              • Personally, I think he’s right. Though America has a declining economy, they still have the world’s most powerful army in general power. I also believe Japan should be higher in rank because they are the most technologically advanced country on the planet, and are able to stablize their militarial power through their navy and idle population. America and Japan are the leaders of world economy, and Russia has a mediocre economy, and about the same population as Bangladesh but on a wider scale. They say money runs the world, and the U.S and Japan have it all.

              • There is a seemingly educated Paki noob named Rick ( RicK Mohammad LOL 🙂 to help you out !!!!

            • they save world.most terrible attack is done by them only on japan

            • Let us please remember that the leaders of a country do not always represent its people. If Russians under Stalin had had a choice, and hadn’t been brainwashed by loads of Stalinist propaganda, they would not have wanted him as their leader. On the other hand, America’s children are falling behind in education and health, and sometimes Americans make very wrong choices.

              The important thing is to work towards a brighter future. Isn’t the invisible desire to achieve such a future also a kind of national power?

              • Exactly. Just make sure people know what is happening instead of being “brain-washed” or “spoon-fed” the nice things from the government. Be aware and knowledgeable. That is the best option.

  4. A good post. I go along with a lot of those ratings – perhaps Brazil is a little under rated.

    Where would a federal EU be placed, if such a thing were to emerge?

    • If there’s a truly federal EU – and I believe that’s virtually impossible – then it’s CNP will be very similar to that of the US, perhaps at 90 (a bit less because of its weaker power projection capabilities; less developed strategic military element; and the greater political tensions and deadlocks that will emerge from amalgamating 27 nations into one).

      • sajid ali says

        i love the country who r havng the beneficial for unity of a country. me wanna job n ur country

        • Sorry, learn English first.

          • Well, not everyone can learn languages, or have the opportunity to. Personally, I’m tri-lingual, but not very many people can do that. And not everyone speaks english DOUCHBAG. So get over yourself

            • Sorry, I’m tri-lingual as well. (And trying to be more “lingual”).

              They can at least type it out in their native language(s) as a reference. Then others can use translation to help in addition to the OP’s own english.

              • btw my comment on the “tri-lingual” part has no relation to the topic, so disregard that stupid part I wrote.

            • Yea I was being a douche.

              But it gets VERY annoying when you see many stupid, immature, uninformed, and/or rage comments here. Personally, I think the best discussions can be made when the participants are knowledgeable enough.

              • Just shut the FUp !! the only rage/condescending comments that I can find is from you complaining about others comments being incoherant and uneducated and waht not.!! Just leave them alone and let them say what they want !!!

  5. Worth looking at the corruption index where India, China and Russia ride high. heavy levels of corruption ensure that a state does not add up to the sum of its parts. In all 3 of the regions I’ve mentioned the corruption has existed for hundreds of years and so will be hard to eradicate.

    Also – what is the future of the nation state? Might the US merge with Mexico and Canada? Might the EU continue to evolve, perhaps having ever closer ties with Russia? Will there be some sort of SE Asian block to blow us all away?

    I have read many old accounts predicting the future, the most remarkable thing is how so few turn out to be accurate. A tricky thing futurology .

    • These corruption indexes are nothing more than propaganda BS. Here in Toronto there is plenty of corruption with a 9 billion dollar budget, increasing from 6 billion in seven years without even a 20% population increase, where the municipal government always cries for more while roads and other infrastructure disintegrate. It is only in never never land of the media that the word corruption never gets applied to “us” but always to “them”. While Moscow will add 35 subway stations in the next five years, Toronto takes 40 years to add 5 in one burst and then most likely sit waiting for another 40 years letting the roads become more and more congested like some 3rd world banana republic. The taxes are quite high but the money disappears without a trace supposedly on services that I personally find invisible. It doesn’t take billions to run a few homeless shelters where they set up some cots in a gymnasium. The city doesn’t build public housing. But it does give grants to condo developers for unadvertised “affordable” units.

      If there is no corruption in places like Canada then what is the mafia doing in Toronto and Montreal? Even the dope pushing bike gangs are big enough to push elected officials around.

      Russia has problems but I have yet to see objective metrics of corruption and even crime. Most of the time I see the media spewing some wishful thinking BS, repeating the “Russia bad” mantra.

    • To follow up on Lloyd’s points, I would like to see a similar post from you (AK) in regard to blocs or regions (say, N. America, the various Euro-regions, East Asia, etc.). Given the interdependency of countries in today’s globalized world, this may be a fruitful area of inquiry.

  6. sinotibetan says

    Agree with Glossy. Increasing ethnic diversity within a nation will worsen the nation. EU and the USA and other ‘Western nations’ are doomed if they continue their current population policies(which their politicians are dogmatic that these should). They all will be ultimately Islamized and Africanized. East Asians won’t contribute that much to their ‘ethnic diversity’ because Muslims(whose leaders are envious of the West and probably plotting the fall of the West) and Africans are the major migrants to EU nations and the USA. Ultimately, civil war between white nationalists and the new migrants.
    No secularism is not going to work in Muslim nations. It’s political, fundamentalist Islam that is going to become more popular. Islam vs the West(and if they can beat the West, they’ll take on the non-Muslim world) and the West has already lost the ideologicaly war thanks to its self-hating racism and its commitment to ‘ethnically diversify’.
    Hopefully, we Chinese people won’t be influenced by the wrong thinking Westerners have on this issue. What I fear is our Chinese youths are too influenced by Hollywood – America’s propaganda machine.

    Some criticisms of using America as a model.
    1. America is at the beginning of the beginning of its decline in greatness. We should not emulate that nation. It was a clever social experiment but I believe it has now started to go awry. Let us see if America can survive and remain great before we too easily swallow what they tell is good for us in other parts of the world.
    2. America’s greatness depended on several aspects:-
    a.) Yes America was diverse – but their initial migrants that contributed to its development(especially in terms of intellect, science and technology) were almost all from European nations. The Jews were also mostly European Jews, influenced by European cultures. There was diversity but there is commonality in that diversity: they were all ‘European’. Unlike the current diversity advocated in the USA (and the EU and other Western nations). Blacks contributed mostly as labour and Asian migration was initially too negligible.
    b.) America was for long a ‘second rate Western nation’ until the 1st and 2nd world wars decimated the powers of those European powers. Those wars, political upheavels, etc. led to migration of the smartest of Europe and the Jews to America. These depleted the intellectual power of Europe and America gained.
    c.) Although diverse, America’s dominant culture was basically derived from Anglo-Saxon culture which is still a European culture. Although different and initially there was resistance, but Eastern and Southern Europeans – having some similarity in culture and physical appearances became assimilated into ‘America’. There was some ‘ironing-out’ of that diversity.
    That was the past.
    3. Yes, if only diversity can be managed! America has shown it did not know how to manage diversity and this is because they are unclear as to how to build their nation. A nation is built on one dominant culture – all nations started based on ethnic and cultural grounds. Yugoslavia, Nepal, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar, Philipines, Thailand, etc. – and see how some of those countries imploded because they were multi-ethnic. I am not saying that a multiethnic country should become mono-ethnic. I am saying a multi-ethnic country should not become even more diverse and a monoethnic country should not become multiethnic. Multiculturalism is centrifugal, it tears nations apart. It is , in practical terms, unworkable. I believe, the fate of the European nations and USA will ultimately prove me right. The TYPE of migrants who come in will determine the fate of those nations. Well, if you have hard-working, smart, willing-to-abandon the cultures of the motherland and adopt the culture of the host nations, racially /ethnically SIMILAR migrants, then yes – this might be good. But, tell me, what type are the MAJORITY of migrants who come into the West, thanks to the hyperliberal migration policies of the West? Migrants who will abuse the liberality of those policies, who refuse to assimilate, who insist that their cultures are considered equal, and also maybe secretly they may even want to replace the cultures of their hosts with theirs? I don’t understand the European nations – why ask for trouble by ‘diversifying’ your communities? A friend once told me that many African ladies purposely flew all the way from Africa to give birth in Ireland(I guess back then when Ireland was not bankrupt) so that the child can acquire ‘Irish citizenship’. I don’t know how far that was true but if it was, that is a type of ‘diversity’ that will ruin nations. I myself am a descendent of migrants in a multiethnic country. No, multiculturalism , as an ideology, ruins nations. I hope the motherland of my ancestors(China) will never follow this road to perdition.
    The Europeans’ problem is :
    1. They take CURRENT America as the role model, thinking that America’s current policy of diversity there led to its present greatness. They forget that the past was the clue to its present greatness and the present may be a clue to its future ruin.
    2. Egalitarianism. It’s untenable. Humans are not equal. If all humans are treated equal in every way, then they are treated unfairly and unjustly. Humans should be treated fairly – which means sometimes equal(eg. an influential politician murders a man vs a nobody murders a man – both gets the SAME punishment) but sometimes unequal treatment(eg. Mr. X wins the Nobel prize because he discovers some earth-shattering scientific discovery, those who don’t won’t get that reward). The West seems fossilized in the ideologies formulated by their so-called ‘enlightened intelligentsia’ mostly in the 19th -early 20th Century, and the rest of the world too – thanks to Western intellectual and cultural ‘hegemony’. Western universities churn out those same ideas but I don’t see anyone trying to challenge these ideas. Scientifically we have gone far. Ideology-wise and morally-wise, I think humans have ‘de-evolved’.

    As for Russia, I am not so optimistic now. I think Medvedev is supplanting Putin(based on the latest polls in Moscow). Though Putin is not a saint and is far from being perfect, his hold on power would mean a more independent Russia. My problem with Medvedev is that he is too pro-West. He believes the ‘liberal’ ideologies that , I believe , will ultimately destroy not only the West but Russia also, if he carries out his ‘Western dream’. The ‘tandem’ is faltering as the two boys slug it out for political supremacy. It will not affect us in Asia(except, maybe China might gobble up Eastern Siberia -rich in oil and gas – if Russia weakens) but I am sorry for Russia if this really happens. I see a Russia breaking up with western Russia gobbled by the EU(a much reduced Russia becoming a ‘member state’) and parts of Siberia by China and the Muslim Caucasus more aligned with the Middle East. Putin’s greatest mistake is Medvedev. And right on about Russia’s TFR – with political instability looming, it might plunge again.


    • Sinotibetan, I agree with most of that, but especially with this:

      “Scientifically we have gone far. Ideology-wise and morally-wise, I think humans have ‘de-evolved’.”

      The modern Western world is kind of like the Roman Empire during its decline – material prosperity combined with moral squalor. The power and prosperity were there purely through inertia from the times when Rome was still morally healthy. Liberal ideologies are not a cause of Western power or prosperity any more than Nero’s orgies and extravagance were a cause of Roman might. They were an early symptom of its decline.

    • Muslims(whose leaders are envious of the West and probably plotting the fall of the West) and Africans are the major migrants to EU nations and the USA

      Umm, most migrants to the United States are Mexicans and other Latin Americans.

      • sinotibetan says

        “Umm, most migrants to the United States are Mexicans and other
        Latin Americans.”
        Thanks for correcting that error. I actually meant to say only the EU. Yup, most migrants to USA are Latin Americans.
        There is enough Muslim migration to USA though, in my opinion, and enough closet jihadists amongst these to be an internal security threat in that country.


        • You forgot to mention closet jews commenting as “Chinese “on blogs!

          • sinotibetan says


            I am not a Jew. But the Chinese diaspora in south east asia were once called ‘Jews of the East’.Anyway, Joe Chen calls me a Communist Party of China ‘minion’ – so I wonder how one can connect these two disparate ‘personalities’ into one – a closet Jew and a CPC hacker all roll up in one person. Interesting indeed!


            • It’s not a shame to be a jew ,it’s a shame to be a liar


              • Dear bloggers I have a news for you, Ashdood is a chinese city !!!

              • sinotibetan says


                1.) I am not sure what that link is about.

                2.) You say I am a ‘liar’….it seems you allege I am a closet Jew pretending to be a Chinese – what’s your PROOF? Anyway, it’s up to you to think whether I am a closet Jew or not and if you think I am a liar…well that’s up to you.

                3.) Those negative views about Islam are my views – whether you like it or not.

                4.) I am alright with people opposing my views and coming out with reasonable rebuttals. Accusing one as a closet Jew and a ‘false Chinese’ is simply not one of such rebuttals.


            • let me see:
              You used these phrases several times in your comments :
              _we Chinese people

              _my country, in which the Jews have no dealings whatsoever-

              For you it’s always evil muslims vs
              enlightened jews.

              muhammad is worse than hitler (both are devils from a jew standpoint
              you quote “I don’t have much problems, politically-wise, with all other major religions and
              even philosophies like atheism
              the West
              will be able to overcome the Islamic movement –
              if they truly unite (islmaic paranoia that jews preach)

              Musnahkan Israel! Musnahkan Yahudi!
              Hidup Palestin!’
              (translated: Destroy Israel!Destroy the Jews!
              Long-live Palestine[i.e. Palestinian Arabs]) –

              then when someone talks about israel the defend is ready and comparing israel security with the US (fox news and the rest or the pinheads)

              sinotibetan says:
              January 25, 2011 at 10:26 am
              1. No one knows , exactly, the size of its nuclear arsenal(no proof it has).
              2. It’s very bad location underminds all other ‘good’ points.
              3. It’s survival may be at stake because the USA is on the road to decline and the
              Muslim states are just waiting to go for the kill if the USA finally rots to oblivion.and
              then in another blog you write about how the jews contributed ,
              and finally
              the if you google REMOVED (which is the email address that belongs to you or the anatoly that defending you and assuring you ip address ,you find the email belongs to a person called yahuda from ashdood ,so please you are entitled to your own opinion about anything just don’t lie ,no body have respect for liars


              • sinotibetan says


                Let me see through your cluttered and convoluted mind:-
                You accuse me of lying my ethnicity: i.e. I am a Jew pretending to be Chinese. All your points DO NOT prove this nonsensical accusation.
                1.)”we Chinese people/my country, in which the Jews have no dealings whatsoever-”
                Yes…because I AM a Chinese.
                Malaysia has no deals with the Jews/Israel. In our passport, Israel is one country not covered. So…I am NOT telling any lie here.
                2.)”Musnahkan Israel! Musnahkan Yahudi!
                Hidup Palestin!’”
                Ini membuktikan bahawa saya bukan berbangsa Yahudi. Sekiranya saya benar-benar bangsa Yahudi, kebarangkalian saya berbahasa Melayu adalah tipis sama sekali.
                (Translation: This proves that I am not a Jew. If I were really a Jew, the chances of me writing in Malay language is extremely small.)
                So..again, you fail to ‘prove’ I am a lying Jew.
                3.)”REMOVED (which is the email address that belongs to you or the anatoly”
                I don’t know where in the world you got that ‘REMOVED‘ because THAT IS NOT my email account and excuse me Anatoly is a Russian and NOT a Jew! BTW Anatoly is the owner of this blog…so please don’t just make up these type of baseless allegations!
                4.)”For you it’s always evil muslims vs
                enlightened jews.”
                No. For me, Islam is a dangerous and evil ideology.My target is ISLAM itself – not Muslims. As for Jews being enlightened – I NEVER really said that. There are bad and good Jews. As for Muslims….sure , there are some who live peacefully with others but I strongly believe that the true teachings of Islam suggest subjugation of ALL non-Muslim peoples in the end – and that means non-Jews ALSO.
                5.)”then when someone talks about israel the defend is ready and comparing israel security with the US ”
                So, that proves I am a Jew? Ridiculous.Some Neo-con American whites ‘support’ Zionists(which I don’t support, by the way) – so they are all Jews also? Silly inference.
                Yeah…right: ONLY Jews use that word! Another ridiculous ‘point’. The word ‘dhimmitude’ is used also by non-Jews who oppose ‘Islamization’. In fact, the word was associated with its first use by a Lebanese Christian.
                Others who use that word include whites:
                Former Muslims:-
                (he is a Pakistani, by the way).
                7.) I am a CHRISTIAN…and Christians generally support the existence of Israel as a STATE. I do not support Zionism. But I don’t believe in cursing the Jews like many Muslims do. Because in the book of Revelation, we Christians believe that the Jews will be restored to their homeland in Canaan. So, if I am seen to be ‘pro-Jew'(which is not really true, I just don’t hate Jews like many Muslims do) it’s because of my religion, not because I myself am a Jew.
                8.)”just don’t lie ,no body have respect for liars”
                I am NOT lying. YOU are making baseless allegations. Nobody has respect for someone who makes baseless, proof-deficit diatribes.


              • sinotibetan says


                And..I missed this one:-
                “muhammad is worse than hitler (both are devils from a jew standpoint…/ (islmaic paranoia that jews preach)”
                YEAH…another ‘hard-evidence’ that I am DEFINITELY a Jew. Sure thing!
                But let me see what a former Muslim of Somalian origin has to say:-


                In an interview in the London Evening Standard, Hirsi Ali characterizes Islam as “the new fascism”. “Just like Nazism started with Hitler’s vision, the Islamic vision is a caliphate — a society ruled by Sharia law — in which women who have sex before marriage are stoned to death, homosexuals are beaten, and “apostates like me are killed.” Sharia law is as inimical to liberal democracy as Nazism.” In this interview, she also made it clear that in her opinion it is not “a fringe group of radical Muslims who’ve hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. […] Violence is inherent in Islam — it’s a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder.”
                At the Sydney Writers’ Festival in June 2007, she balanced her arguments, saying “I am a Muslim” because she understood why Muslims were silent when the Qur’an was “invoked to behead captured aid workers, journalists and other Western wanderers,” as silence is “better than an argument with the author of the Holy Book who has given the command to behead infidels.” Hirsi Ali stated that she was also “not a Muslim” as she had lost the fear of the Qur’an and of Hell and lost respect for “its author” and messenger; and that she felt a “common humanity” with those she once “shunned”, such as Jews, Christians, atheists, gays, and sinners “of all stripes and colours.”
                In The Reason Magazine, Ayaan Hirsi Ali stated that not just ‘radical Islam’ but ‘Islam’ must be defeated. She stated: Hirsi Ali: “Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace”


                So, SHE is a Jew also for saying Islam is analogous to Hitlerism/Nazism?


              • Ok ,if you are not a Jew, you are for sure the most islamophobe that I ever heard of ,If you look up stories of the few people that left Islam you will notice one thing in common , most have a trauma from previous abuse related to their culture more than religion, (some trying to publish a book and make money out of a hot topic).there are tons of christian scholars with masters and Phds in science ,history, and comparison religions under their belts ,who studied Islam to defeat it ,guess what happened ? They ended up embracing Islam, one of the priests said ,you will reach a point that you either embrace the truth or you lie to your self. If you google famous historians quotes on Islam and Muhammad and read with an open mind and heart ,you will know why islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. God bless.

              • If u look up hirsi Ali the somali woman in wikipedia In May 2006 the television program Zembla reported that Hirsi Ali had given false information about her real name,[44] her age and the country she arrived from when originally applying for asylum,the scandal led her to get kicked out from government , so in a not politically correct way ,she is a liar ,I wouldn’t ask for her witness about Islam ,I would go with the priests.

            • er. He (Sam) is obviously a troll. I don’t know how you didn’t catch it.

              • @ Rick
                Look who’s talking. Of all the information above, that’s all you have to say. Please be knowledgeable before spouting insignificant comments.

              • Rick Mohammad doesn’t want anyone intruding in his TROLL territory

    • A worried American says

      So what you are basically saying from you’re very long comment, that America’s culture is going to be it’s down fall?

      • This is what I have observed, noted, analyzed about the current and future situation of the US and modern nations, on the future of developing modern nations: You might compare this decline with the decline of the Roman Empire and the coming of the Dark Ages.

        A problem with America is that the people’s morals are spiraling downwards. Nowadays, all those parents let their kids do all those weird things and also increasing amounts of morally wrong things such as all that skimpy clothing, and the decline of education and increase in “cuss” words. Also if you have noticed, I think drug use has gone up, as well as the presence of screwed up TV programs such as Jersey Shore. Another thing is how we teens nowadays grind in “dances” (I’m thankfully not one of them). Also there is the problem with gangs, violence, etc. And also with the sex that all the teens do nowadays. It’s pretty sad and alarming. The majority of the US is not very well educated as well and the levels of education is declining. Most of them would not bother reading about this or probably don’t understand a computer very well, not to mention the rising rates of immigrants from Mexico, etc who are pretty much illiterate. (I don’t blame America’s problems on Mexican immigrants, but on the problems of US youth). It’s really sad, lame, stupid, fail, whatever you can use to describe the decline.

        These are pretty much the future of the “culture” of the majority of the US. (not that they should even be culture or be good in any way).
        And yes I’m criticizing the US cause I’m a minority here and the future of the US doesn’t look good if parents don’t teach their kids correctly.

        I’m pretty sure this is or will be a trend in other nations. Once they become mostly matured and “modern”, all these morally wrong things will increase as people start having more time to do things. People will also become more lazy, as many Americans are now. This will probably take many years in other countries. But I think Japan, Germany, UK are doomed because the people have become less moral. Just look at the weird things that are in/from Japan, the UK riots, and (I don’t really know about Germany but I’ve heard from friends that they -the young people- have too much sex). There are obviously many other problems that I’m not aware of, have not mentioned, or is not mentioned enough, but this is what I have observed and analyzed as a teen in the US. (Most probably wouldn’t care or even know about these issues).

        Once the morals go down, and the majority of young people of the country become less moral, the whole country goes down….
        I hope people are aware of this and that they know what is right and what is wrong, and can educate people/their kids about the future.

        • just saying says

          I agree the american morals are going down.

          • One of the good things about “non-Western ideals” nations is that they don’t realy have a problem with these things I mentioned. But their problem is with censorship and rights.

            Btw having less censorship and more rights is synonymous with a decrease in morals, so censorship, fewer rights might be the better way to go after all.

            There are SO many problems with the world/society, it’s hard to even think how to solve all these problems, but I think we(humans) can do it.

            • What “non-Western ideals”countries are you talking about because 50 years ago the Western countries had ideals which looked very close like those espoused by the modern day Middle East and conservative Asia. And they still have those problems of sex, drugs and crime.

              ps. you are framing it in a conservative view of morality which i don’t think is completely yours. Change it and everything looks better.

              About Dancing: With the exception of the Disco era contact between dance partners was always something to strife after so yes, the seventies was the moral highpoint of American culture.

              • I was trying to compare between Muslim nations/China/Indonesia/Africa and the “Western” nations like US, UK, European nations, Japan, etc.

                There is a difference.

                And what are your views? Where are you from?

        • I seriously doubt that young people in Germany have to much sex. It sounds more that certain friends of you had to little. Besides there are always outliers.

          ps. Morality has definitely gone up in the US. Less Teenage pregnant girls who can’t care for their kids, less race discrimination and homosexuality is more seen as normal.
          What is seen as what morality should be is simply not something static but chances with time.

          • Idk, I heard it as a joke, which means the original circumstance should be pretty prevalent for there to be a joke about it. Either in the past or now.

            Btw, having sex when young isn’t even a good thing. And I am a student right now, so wtf?

            P.S. Morality issues don’t only deal with pregnancy rates. Race discrimination is not related to morality. I mean the increasing prevalence in cussing among young people, the increasing disregard to authority, the increasing “weird things” that American youth do when compared with youth from China.

      • btw, short answer is Yes.

  7. sinotibetan says

    “Also – what is the future of the nation state? Might the US merge with Mexico and Canada? Might the EU continue to evolve, perhaps having ever closer ties with Russia? Will there be some sort of SE Asian block to blow us all away?”
    The future of the nation state depends on whether :
    1. The present mood of dismissing the idea of nation-state proves succesful and correct in improving societies experimenting with multiculturalism and ‘denationalism’ – I predict such ideology will destroy countries. History has shown that it ultimately fails. By the way, anti-nation-state sentiment is part of the USA ‘Americanizing’ all of us who are not from the US.
    2. Whether present nation-states abandon the idea of nation-state BEFORE the outcome of that ideology(which I believe, will be nothing but doom and gloom) is known.
    3. America’s success – if that country collapses, then other countries will no longer ‘buy’ its model as a succes model. I suspect America will try to destabilize her rivals(esp. Russia and China) and then it will be too late for the rest of the world to know that her system will ultimately fail.
    USA will ultimately dissolve – some parts Hispanized, civil war between ethnic groups, Islamic jihadism taking root within will also add to socio-cultural break-up there. Canada will not be far from the same fate.

    EU will attempt to form a United States of Europe with Germany and France slugging it out to be hegemenon. Russia will be gobbled by EU only if –
    1. Russian liberals gain power.
    2. All silovik and ‘strong-men’ are ousted. Putin must go for that to happen.
    3. The size of Russia is trimmed to perhaps be only ‘European Russia’ and its population reduced so that Germany/France, EU hegemenon-aspirants, do not find Russia ‘threatening’.

    By the way, I come from South East Asia, of Chinese descent(a race generally hated by the ‘host nations’ – once even called the “Jews of the East” as a racial slur by a past Thai monarch) and no….South East Asia will be engulfed in religious and ethnic strife in future. Doom and gloom, war and destruction, ethnic-cleansing and jihadism, rapes and tortures. I fear, that may be the future for us in South East Asia.


    • well i respect your opinion but give me a nation that can share the gospel of truth and for me thats the most powerful country in the world…..
      Asian countries must be thankful to the western countries that shared them the gospel thats why asia is progressing now…without God all countries are nothing!

    • Hi Sinotibetan,

      I feel you are intelligent and more than warrant having your opinion on these matters. However after reading a number of comments I feel you have an agenda. Now I can skim read your comments and look for anti-islam phrases which ALWAYS turn up. Your “argument” with Sam highlighted this fact too.

      Anyway my point is an educated man such as yourself should take a more balanced approach, you are as bad (in my opinion) as the “jew-hating muslims” you hate. Plus I think muslims/arabs/islam has enough enemies i.e. Fox news and other Murdoch owned media, and western governments with powerful pro-israel lobbies.

      • Yea, I agree. But obviously sinotibetan has his ideals/goals that he wants to achieve and work towards, so he WOULD have an agenda.

        But I think he (you) should be more balanced. (yet since sinotibetan is another “50 cent soldier”, he’s going to have a biased, but educated opinion.)

      • Note: My assumptions are and may be insulting and wrong. Sorry if they become personal attacks. I don’t mean to use personal attacks since they don’t help in discussions.

  8. sinotibetan says

    I also forgot to say, the typical multiculturalist-promoter (? purposely) ‘confuses’ being nationalist with being racist. I think it’s OK to love one’s ethno-cultural identity, and wanting to see it preserved. I feel it’s like knowing my roots, knowing my lineage, knowing my past and my ancestors – a connection with history. That is being a nationalist. For the Europeans, they have been ‘burdened’ with the guilt of Nazism – and sure, that was racism – hating other ethnicities, believeing in their own superiority and wanting to subjugate and exterminate ‘inferior races’ – these are morally reprehensible. Racism is wrong, but nationalism is not only right, it is natural and human to be so! And I suspect many whites have never totally renounce this racism. Instead, they create facades to conceal these sentiments – eg. all those so-called ‘anti-racist’ laws(which are, in principle, not wrong) but the error is the policy of their politicians that insist ‘our communities must diversify – we need to take in more non-white people'(and the common people are bombarded with the advantages of this policy) and ‘self-hate’ racism that tend to denigrate themselves(i.e. whites), a tendency to pose only the negative aspects of Christendom and an almost to-the-point-of-apologizing to the Muslim world, a tendency to paint only beautiful pictures of African culture/people(although I think deep inside, many whites do resent them) etc. – all these are attempts, in my view, to assuage their sense of a communal/ethnic ‘guilt-trip’. As a non-white, I think that’s an ostrich’s way of solving the problem of racism(i.e. hiding its head under the sand). It becomes ‘unlawful’ for whites to like being whites and wanting to preserve that ethno-cultural ‘identity’ and that only drives many of them to racism. Perhaps, that explains, partly soccer hooliganism in which there is a racist element to it. The solution, if I may suggest, is not bringing in more African or Muslim migrants ‘so that these people will learn’ – so far, the results of such policies are lacking. The solution is to realize that it is normal and human to be nationalists. We are ‘wired up’ that way. But we should not claim nor use our identities to subjugate/dominate others. Then only, can the problem of racism be addressed. In my country, racism is government policy, my ethnic group is the one oppressed and hated. I have seen the ill-effects of living in a multi-ethnic country and the evil of racism. The Western method of addressing racism is the wrong method.


    • I agree with that too. The leftist mindset regards any acknowledgement of racial realities as “hatred”. It really doesn’t have to be.

      I actually think that the “you can’t handle the truth!” attitude is far more justified in regards to atheism than in regards to race. Humanity handled the truth about race and the origins of inequality from the dawn of history until the rise of leftism just fine. Actually, the 20th century, during which racial truths were denied for the first time in history, turned out to be the bloodiest one of all.

      The record of us handling the truth about the non-existence of God(s) is much worse.

    • Hey sinotibetan,

      I’ve been reading all your comments/replies, and I’m delighted that you know so much about the world and current affairs. Since I myself try to understand the world in as many viewpoints as possible, meeting another guy that has been informed this much is awesome. I’m pretty sure you already have some degrees from a college (I am still in school learning) since you have brought up these ideas.

      And I think that it’s good to take a side and root for you home country instead of trying to represent the country you live in and the country you’re “from”. Since I am also from the Chinese diaspora like you are (I’m actually a US citizen from a Taiwanese Han family living in the US so it’s a bit different from your story), I’m also a minority in another country. But I am still establishing my cultural identity and which ideas and nations to support.

      I agree with your ideas, but regarding the Islamic beliefs and “core” problem of Islam, I think the majority of Muslims don’t wish for violent attacks to happen. They dislike the fellow Muslims who use violence to make a statement. And they want other, outside, people to understand their religion and that it is not rooted around violence. In reality, the Islamic religion does not promote violence. It is the leaders of the terrorist groups who do. They even change/influence the teachings and laws of the Quran (and other holy books/laws) into their favor, which support the violent behaviors against the”enemies of Islam”. Those leaders have great influence over their “territory’s” Muslims and the Muslims under their influence have the “violence propaganda” pushed into them, or rather those Muslims are greatly influenced by them and believe that violence against the “West” is the answer to their problems. The influenced Muslims (the terrorists) believe that the “West” is evil, so they commit their terrorist acts in attempts to scare the world and kill as many “Westerns” as possible. Those Muslims were pretty much fed the “propaganda” (just like North Koreans, although that is in a different way, and that is a discussion for another day).

      What I was trying to say is that the Muslims aren’t inherently evil. They are just in a position where it is hard to do the “right” thing – and of course you know that what is morally right is different to each person/group. They perceive morally good things in their own way that the leaders have approved and supported, such as killing people in order to protect Islam. Since the Muslim sphere is so heavily entrenched in the religious values/laws, it is hard for them to change their thinking. The first thing that the religious nations have to do is to separate religion and state into different things. Then they might be able to reform the laws a bit, and decrease the human/womens rights abuse that occurs there.

      I think I have most of the facts straight, but please inform me on errors, differences and your thoughts about this.


    • hello sinotibetan.I have read all your comments,I like most of things but I want to clear ur mind with one thing “muslims aren’t devils”

  9. I think that China gets too much credit as the up and coming superpower. It is able to grow because the western elites have decided to transplant manufacturing and even some food production there and other cheap labour mills. Little is said of China’s massive internal problems such as the hundreds of millions of former peasant migrants that find no place in the big cities due to regulations and lack of employment opportunities.

    In the long run China could develop into something overshadowing the west but that is not going to happen as long as they depend on western markets and fossil fuels. China is very vocal in its opposition to CO2 limits because it claims it is being deprived of development potential. This is idiotic for two reasons. 1) What will it do when the coal and oil are not available in sufficient quantities? This will be the case by 2030 at the latest. It should be investing in 100% nuclear power today instead of opening a couple of coal burning generating stations every week and building highways like there is no tomorrow. 2) Climate change is happening and faster than the models predict. By 2050 most of the world will have serious agricultural problems and China is going to be the prime victim of any global food shortage. Given China’s size and the fact that it is building over precious agricultural land this is not a problem that can be ignored or “solved by the market”.

    I don’t buy the “fast military catch up” of China with Russia. The story of the WS-10 shows that fast track, copy based development is not a substitute for serious long term indigenous development. This can also be said of the recent fuss over the high speed trains being built in China, where they basically stole the designs and grossly violated the contracts they signed to get this technology. The J-20 is a fine example of lack true development potential in China today: a front end including canopy that is a pure copy of the F-22, inlets like the F-35, an overall layout with similarity to the Mig 1.44 and the small rear stabilizers inspired by the PAK-FA (Sukhoi must have had a leak). There is nothing Chinese about the J-20 except its cut and paste design. But we already have it being called superior to anything from Russia. Sorry but Russia is being written off too eagerly as if it is still the 1990s and the Chinese are being hyped too soon.

  10. Tetsuya Sellers says

    As far as biofuels like ethynol, I found these four links by Christopher Calder. He describes the enormous food shortages that are occuring because of biofuels, and how Obama is supporting this contrary to all evidence, starving more people around the world than Mao Zedong’s Great Leap Foward.

    The Renewable Energy Disaster      
    The King of Starvation – Barack Obama      
    Dr. Steven Chu – Mad Scientist      
    Starvation Hall of Shame                                                     

  11. Paul Nicolaides says

    I’m amazed to see that the Comprehensive National Power index rates the UK in 2nd place, above China.

    It seems plain wrong; do the Chinese know something we don’t? France and Germany are placed in 4th and 5th place so, according to this index, Europe (together) still has significant political clout. Though I suspect China will have reassessed the situation since January 2006. The emperor does not have as many clothes as we once thought.

    Top website, lots to praise. A couple of general issues: perhaps a little too positive on Russia and things Russian? I’m not an expert and I may be wrong – just a perception I’ve got from reading and conversations with two Russians I used to work with. I’m open to persuasion otherwise.

    Also possibly a little down on England/UK? Did I read Anatoly that you spent time in Preston, Lancs, UK? If so, I’m not at all surprised that you should have such a jaundiced view – it’s a dire, small minded place that grew up during England’s Victorian industrial past and has been in continuous decline since the 1930s. If you read the report ‘Cities Unlimited’ from Cameron’s favourite think-tank that blighted place surely has no role in Britain’s future.

    However I’m not optimistic about Britian’s (or Europe’s) future overall. The weath generated by banking/finance and oil/gas will shrink; though I suspect biotechnology will be a useful growth industry and increasingly important for the world. Scotland may well eventually become an independent nation within the EU, but if so it will be against the wishes of London and reluctance from Washington – this will delay a “free Scotland” considerably. Unless cryogenically frozen Sir Sean Connery will never return home from whichever tax haven he currently resides. By then there may be scraps of oil and gas left, still significant for a nation of 5m people but no longer a significant issue for the big neighbour down south (or the US or EU). This assumes no further big oil finds, if further serious oil is found in Scottish waters all bets are off – expect tears.

    I do think Europe will press ahead with ‘The project’ as there is no alternative; there is no escaping the EU for the UK (or the nations from which it is made). I expect corporation tax to be harmonised across the EU and that will partly scupper the Republic of Ireland’s return to some degree of prosperity. Nothern Ireland will be a drag on whichever economy is supporting it for decades to come; when three-quarters of your economy is in the public sector and political stability is uncertain you don’t turn an economy round swiftly.

    An EU armed services seems likely, if only because the US will not be in a position to afford its current vast military and neither will the separate countries of Europe.,1518,734430-2,00.html

    As for Peak Oil and the looming energy crisis, God (metaphorical) help us all.

    • “Europe (together) still has significant political clout”

      I think high British and French rankings (as well as a high overall European rating) make perfect sense. There is an enormous residual influence from UK and France in their former colonies, manifested in connections in business, education, media, culture and finance. Spain exerts a more modest, though still noticeable version of the same thing in Latin America. Perhaps Italy’s lack of extensive imperialism accounts for its status as (to quote Mr. K) “a modern France-sized economy but not much else.”

      Also interesting to note that both these countries have amplified their power by taking contrasting approaches to US power: the UK by supporting America almost always, and France by opposing (or at least diverging from) America most of the time.

    • I was also very intrigued by the UK’s second place ranking in the original CNP index when I first came across it a few years ago. I’m curious as to how exactly the index was caluclated that led to such counter-intuitive result. Russia’s third place seems a little overblown and also makes me curious, while France’s and Germany’s rankings are in broadly in line with my intuition. Too bad I couldn’t find this yellow book anywhere online. :/

      • I have a feeling they deliberately ordered the rankings like this so that the Brits would relax and lower their defenses/become too comfortable. And they placed Russia this high up in order to scare the European countries and the US, so they will all be preoccupied with things related to Russia. With these events, China will be able to push ahead, or so they think. It won’t work.

        • As if China cares about the UK which is on the other side of the world. The UK was then so high because the USA peaked at that time and the UK was lifted up by it being a loyal vassal

  12. Paul Nicolaides says

    Weren’t there lots of comments here earlier? (inc mine). Technical glitch?

  13. Great blog and interesting discussion. I was surprised at first that you rated France over Germany, but thinking about it some more, that makes sense.

  14. I’m not so sure about Brazil.

    Saudi Arabia has better access to military technology and more influence in a cultural community (Arab League / Islam) than Brazil.

    It is also geographically closer to the big markets than Brazil.

    And of course: no energetic problems.

    A similar argument could be made for Pakistan but I accept that Islamabad is not so hot these days…

    • I don’t think S. Arabia is a strong country at all.
      (1) It’s a client state of the US, and its government is hostage to the same Islamic radicals who are “its” main projectors of global influence. Thus, despite its vast energy leverage, it is under too much political pressure from all sides – domestic radicals, the US, Iran – to play a truly sovereign Great Power role.
      (2) It does have “access” to military tech, but at exploitative prices. On the other hand, Brazil negotiates favorable deals with countries like France and Russia, and develops its own indigenous MIC.
      (3) It is a but not the main pole of influence in its cultural community (it is challenged for that role by, in this order, Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, and Iran). On the other hand, Brazil is rather unambiguously the dominant power in South America.
      (4) Last but by far not least, it is extremely underdeveloped socially. It doesn’t have anything going for it apart from oil and Mecca. Without them, it would probably resemble Yemen.

      Pakistan not even worth mentioning, IMO. At the most basic level no country that’s powerless to resist pressure from another to bomb its own citizens is a Great Power.

  15. sinotibetan says

    I beg to differ regarding Saudi Arabia. This nation has the potential to become really powerful – using Islam as an all-reaching, worldwide, religio-socio-political platform.
    Point # 1:
    The USA and S Arabia are ‘mutually dependent’. S. Arabia is NOT a client state of the USA and at times it seems as if the USA is a client state of S. Arabia! USA hardly ever castigate S. Arabia for its gross human rights violations(American hypocrisy at its worst even as the USA regularly ‘scolds’ Russia, No Korea, Cuba, China and the lot) because of 2 things:-
    a.) S. Arabia has lotta lotta lotta lotta….oil oil oil….
    b.) S. Arabia is the cradle of the stone-age ‘religion'(more like a complete theocratic ideology which leaves no space in the world for the existence of a single non-Muslim if that ‘religion’ is followed to its fundamental aspects) and no politically-correct Western Government dares to triffle with our persistently ‘allergic to any mere utterance of disagreement with Islam’ ‘Muslim brothers’.
    S. Arabia will use the Jewish-Palestinian issue(together with the rest of the Arab nations) to hold the whole world hostage to Islam.
    Point # 2:
    S. Arabia can have weapons ‘by proxy’ – if the Muslim world finally unites(eg. if they can get rid of the Shiite schism) – the West and the rest of the non-Muslim world: you all ‘had it’!
    Point # 3:
    It does not need to fear these ‘challenges’. The Prophet Muhammad was Arab and Arabization via Islam continues. Iran, the dominant Shiite nation is the possible contender but the majority of Muslims are Sunni. S. Arabia is the cradle of Islam, its prophet is Arabian, Islam is an Arabic ‘national religion’ created with the aim of dominating those who converted and Mecca is Mecca. By proxy, all these – Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan etc. etc. will have to bow down to S. Arabia as they do 5 times a day!
    Point # 4:
    The Jews in the Middle East, the North African states, the former Persian empire etc. were all more culturally superior to a socially-underdeveloped but cruel and rapacious Islamic-Arabian horde – all those ‘superior’ civilizations collapsed under the Islamic-Arabian invasions and now the whole middle east is almost majority Islam.


    • Venezuela has more oil reserves now than Saudi Arabia. They are not protected by jihadists either.

      Saudi Arabia is storing up for a catastrophe. The country has no water for either home use or agriculture so they are trying to buy up land across the Red Sea in countries that have historical animosities toward them. The water being pumped on the Arabian peninsula is a remnant from when the Sahara was last lush and tropical, and it will soon be exhausted. (This is a natural cycle for this desert, but it does not need to be said that SA will be long gone when it occurs again.)

    • you know still the best that God elevated coz in saudi arabia they dont proclaim Christ the Lord and they kill christians there how can you say they are powerful????????????
      is killing other people make a country powerful think about it

    • Viva Israel ,nuke Muslims !

  16. sinotibetan says

    Regarding someone’s comment that China is over-rated…there is some truth but nort compeletely. To me, the motherland of my forefathers is now finally awaken from her slumbers – we, the Chinese have finally woken up to our destiny in this world.
    “In the long run China could develop into something overshadowing the west but that is not going to happen as long as they depend on western markets and fossil fuels. ”
    Western market will shrink because of politico-economic-social issues and the demographic implosion. We, the Chinese, realise this and we are diversifying our markets….with the emergent nations which are still demographically expanding(more importantly their middle-class and rich segments of society are expanding). Fossil fuels – if Russia partners with China , then it is not likely to be a problem in the near term.

    As for the CO2 thingy and climate change – China wants to catch up with the West FAST. Hence, it is willing to burn those fuels out fast and build infrastructure like no-tomorrow to catch up with the West which had all the pleasure of doing the same thing for centuries! How can China contend with the West without this method? The West is using Co2 thingy and ‘climate change’ to hypocritically prevent rivals like China and other Asian nations. I doubt the politicians in the West really, in their heart, care a hoot about the climate. All they care is that they retain the power and clout to arrogantly tell the rest how we should live, behave, etc.

    “Given China’s size and the fact that it is building over precious agricultural land this is not a problem that can be ignored or “solved by the market”.”
    The agricultural land is NOT being ‘built over’ and that’s not the main problem. Agricultural lands are mostly in the Central Plains provinces such as Henan, Hunan, Jiangxi, Anhui, Shaanxi and Sichuan which are further away from ‘industrial development’ which occurs in a dizzying pace in the Eastern Provinces such as Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Fujian, Guangdong, Shandong and Hebei. The rising middle class and the rich are from the Eastern provinces. Guangdong itself has a population the size of Japan. If these provinces can be as rich economically as Japan or South Korea – by themselves, China is a powerful as the USA economically. We have the numbers.
    The problem is more of farmers become less because they seek for fortune in the East. China must learn how to make agriculture as lucrative an enterprise as other ‘modern industry’ to prevent this.

    Yes, the Chinese stole(and continue to steal by cunning and bribery of corrupt Western leaders) Western technology. Just like Japan did and looked how far it brought Japan. It’s a survival of the fittest world – sorry to say: no high moral thingy in this dog eat dog world of politics and business. Imagine a China that …via stealing, improvising and perfecting technological ideas from the West – become a 10 times Japan(in terms of demography). No wonder, the USA wants to destabilize China by all its hypocritical ‘moral talk’ about human rights(maybe the USA should examine whether her allies like S. Arabia have better human rights track record than China).


    • “Yes, the Chinese stole(and continue to steal by cunning and bribery of corrupt Western leaders) Western technology”. -sinotibetan

      ^These aren’t exactly things to be proud of. Aren’t they morally wrong? (not that it seems to matter to you or in this context).
      Also, if we have to steal in order to get ahead, that’s just sad. That means we have no creativity or innovation. It’s a pretty lame idea, you know, and it’s not something to be proud of. It means we re incapable of making things ourselves and coming up with original things. If we don’t start changing, pretty much everything is gonna be a copy of something else, and that’s a SMH moment.

      • It is something to be very proud of. How do you think America developed? By stealing massive amounts of IP from the British.

        • Also stealing is the wrong word. Liberating/obtaining is more correct.

          • Or copying, plagiarizing. “Stealing”, “liberating info from original authors” are poor actions to be proud of. How can you be proud of taking other ideas and claiming that they are your own? If your thinking is like this, how is it surprising that so many people cheat these days… The real proud attitude is only of people succeeding through own hard work, not from piggybacking/cheating off others.

              • why present “evidence” of bad morals? Bad morals are bad and shouldn’t be done. Simple as that.

              • The problem is i don’t see them as bad. Copying is not only the most human of condition but it is also how we developed this technological marvelous world we live in. And i showed those (admittedly malformed) links that society is often very proud of those who obtain IP through other methods.

                ps. there is also the whole issue that IP is not natural law and as such breakage itself can’t be considered morally right or wrong but only breakage of the law itself. As the Byzantine or British Empire were not part of China it is thus not beholden to Chinese law so the theft of silk and tea IP were thus not wrong. But the same is true of China stealing Western IP as it is not breaking any Chinese laws.

  17. @sinotibetan: Lots of good points about China. I know very little about China (and don’t read Chinese, although that’s on my to-do list), but it seems clear even to me that China has almost unlimited potential for internal growth. Despite stereotype of overpopulation, China actually has many under-populated regions (most population concentrated in cities and along perimeter, as is normal for most countries). Key to developing internal regions would be investing in agriculture, as you mention, attracting population to remote areas with model communities, schools, shopping centers, etc.
    Re. Islam/Saudi Arabia: agree that USA, through infinite blundering, appears to be assisting project to make Saudi rulers world-dominant via ideological tool of Wahhabi Islam. I take comfort in history of Catholic Church: at one time Pope was undisputed ideological ruler of all Europe, and everyone had to bow to him. Then schisms, Reformation, Henry VIII, etc.. because local elites didn’t want to have to obey Vatican in distant Rome. Bound to happen in Muslim world, too. America/West should support Iran/Persia in every possible way, if they were only smart enough to know their own interests….

  18. sinotibetan says

    Dear yalensis:-
    Regarding China:-
    Your insight on China regarding the myth of overpopulation is true. It’s too bad that India is a ‘democracy'(and its attendant weaknesses), if its government is as resolute as China’s – Asia will be even a more powerful contender of Western(US-EU) hegemony. For Asia, we only want further political stability and improvement on the socio-economic conditions of our people. Although it’s true, that it would likely mean environmental considerations may take a back-stage(and that’s not good) but I must say Westerners have no moral right to tell us off on this issue as they are now rich, developed and can behave arrogantly because they had more than 200 years of headstart in raping the environment during the Industrial Revolution when they plundered the wealth of non-European colonial nations and thus managed to maintain their high political-social-economic status in the world till today. Before present day Westerners(be they American, Canadian or Europeans) talk about their morals of ‘environmentalism’, they’d better examine how they got to be rich countries in the first place. Sorry for my rant, but that was not directed to you – it was directed to some (I presume European?) commentors who try to potray China as ‘wrong’. In politics, there is no black and white …only shades of grey – all politicians are morally compromised in some way – talking about the ‘morality’ of nations is relative.
    Regarding Islam/S.Arabia:-
    Interesting thoughts regarding the Catholic Church. As you know, I am a Christian – but in no way do I support the Catholic Church – that church is (and was) considered an ‘apostate’ church which commited atrocities towards anyone that did not believe in her doctrines(which to me, are anti-Christian doctrines). Anyone who knows the history of Western Europe would realise how evil and brutal many of those popes, cardinals and bishop-princes were(and with paedophilia being covered-up amongst Catholic priests, are). As for the schisms, although some were probably sincere in coming back to the Bible, most behaved quite not unlike the Catholic clerics they deplored. I am not surprised why many Westerners nowadays do not believe in Christianity and the evil , murderous ways of many who called themselves “Christians”(Catholics and Protestants alike) were part of the reason for the current day unbelief. The other aspect that destroyed the ideological influence of Christendom(I use this word to mean ideologies derived from Christianity and used politically – I believe Christendom to be error because it tries to use politics to influence and subjugate people to believe in ‘Christianity’ -that is a very unChristian thing) in the Western world is the reaction of its more liberal intellegentsia against it – culminating with Darwin’s theory of evolution. I think this theory , finally supported by the majority of scientists, deem ‘scientific credence’ to the very denial of the existence of God. Since the existence of God is a cardinal dogma in Christendom, such an ideology collapsed as the average Westerner is taught that science has disproven God.
    I think, there is only a dint of possibility of that(i.e. schisms with destruction of Islam as an ideology) happening in the Muslim world. The religion of Islam is very different from Christianity, despite superficial similarities. Within Islam is an almost anti-intellectual built-in mechanism in which any Muslim who questions any doctrine of Islam is in danger of being ‘murtad’ and that’s not just an afterlife ‘hellfire'(which may probably be less frightening because the ‘sinning’ Muslim can argue… ‘where’s the proof?’) but what is more frightening , a ‘justified'(according to Islam) cause to kill the ‘murtad’. This psychology of fear(life on earth and the aftyerlife but more importantly the former) means Muslims will not dare to question any Islamic doctrine in the light of scientific discoveries or discrepancies in their holy texts unlike what has happened in ‘Christendom’ where many Bible scholars nowadays happily denounce parts of the Bible as supposed ‘myth’. This built-in anti-intellectualism within Islam(thought of by the evil , ideological genius Muhammad who is on par , maybe smarter than Hitler et. al) thus maintain its hold on its adherents and prevent schisms based on intellect or reason. Why then can one explain the phenomenon of Darwinism’s triumph on Christendom but its failure in influencing the minds of the majority of Muslim intellengtsia? Even the most ‘liberal’ of the Muslim intelligentsia may swallow some ‘liberal’ thoughts from the West but in no way are they going to critically examine Muhammad’s (evil) life. I used to do comparative religion(and philosophy) as a hobby and for me it’s an almost immediate rejection of Islam because its moral standards cannot even fulfil my own moral standrads(which is low in my own view). Such a thought of critically looking at one’s own beliefs is not open to the average Muslim intellectual because of the inherent psychology of fear(of mortal retribution from fellow Muslims).
    Just a little on what I think about atheism(since I was a former atheist myself). I agree that no one can prove the existence of God. But I also believe that no one can prove God does not exist. Both theism and atheism are unprovable dogmas. I don’t believe science can prove or disprove God. One can, however, talk of which dogma has more ‘circumstantial’ evidences. If one follows strictly scientific evidences that we have, he/she would be perhaps an agnostic of the sort who does not believe the God of Christianity or any other world religions is necessarily true but one who will not be able to dogmatically discount if God(or ‘gods’) exist.


  19. Dear sinotibetan: Thanks for your reply. Very interesting thoughts on religion. I agree with you 100% regarding Islam, which is at its core an amoral, violent, anti-intellectual philosophy. Having said that, I like to believe that majority of Muslims world-wide are not really that much into the ideology. They are just “born” into their religion/culture in the same way that many Italians, say, are just “born” into Catholicism but don’t necessarily believe in the more ludicrous bullet points such as trans-substantiation or virgin birth, and so on. Probably they don’t really think about it all that much and just go about their lives in the realm of the real world. I have Jewish friends who do their holiday rituals, etc., but are pretty much agnostic; they certainly don’t believe in the psychopathic god of the Old Testament. I myself have been known to participate in Christmas rituals with my family, even though I am an atheist/agnostic.
    It is true that one cannot formally “disprove” god. But science is capable of disproving specific un-factual claims made by various religions. For example, the Mormon religion makes a specific claim that Native Americans (Indians) are descended from a Hebrew tribe which emigrated to the New World around the time of the Assyrian defeat. This claim can be completely refuted by study of the human genome by evolutionary biologists and physical anthropologists. In the same way that Darwin disproved the Old Testament claim that humans were created all at once, in their current form. I see that as the role of science: to prove or disprove facts, and keep people honest. So long as religious philosophers stay clear of making specific refutable claims (i.e., refrain from just “making shit up”) and stay in the realm of abstract concepts, then they should be okay.

  20. sinotibetan says

    Dear yalensis,
    Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Regarding some of your points about the majority of Muslims:-
    “Having said that, I like to believe that majority of Muslims world-wide are not really that much into the ideology. They are just “born” into their religion/culture in the same way that many Italians, say, are just “born” into Catholicism but don’t necessarily believe in the more ludicrous bullet points such as trans-substantiation or virgin birth, and so on. ”
    There is some truth in this. Most Muslims are quite ignorant of ‘true Islam’ partly because many don’t really understand Arabic. Plus, what they believe are often what they are ‘fed’ by clerics who ‘interpret'(or even ‘manipulate’, if I dare use this word!) the Quran and Hadith. I see ‘moderate Muslims’ divided into several categories – majority are the ignorant laity – they can either remain that way,somewhat ‘worldly’ like the rest of the people or become hardcore, fundamentalist mujahiddins should they learn more about the religion and believe it. The other is the so-called ‘apparent moderate Muslim’ – inward they are mujahiddins, outward they appear moderate to appeal to the less wary(who are the majority) non-Muslims. Practical taqqiya. In Islam, it is OK to deceive others just as long as Islam and the cause of Muhammad is upheld. This explains the ‘moderate’ behaviour of the closet mujahiddins, which I believe have infiltrated the Western countries(by immigration) because the USA and Western Europe political elites, due to their daily staple of politically-correct ideology, really have no clue as to how to deal with Islam. To be honest, I don’t have much problems, politically-wise, with all other major religions and even philosophies like atheism(which of course, denies Christianity). I think we of diverse beliefs(and degrees of convictions regarding these beliefs) can live together rather harmoniously(except for the sometimes emotional debates) save some violent nutheads who are much a minority and more infrequent compared to Muslim nutheads! I mean, the Old Testament has some ‘violent parts’ taht can be ‘misinterpreted’/’manipulated’ but Judaism is at least, in most sects, a non-missionary religion. The New Testament is basically apolitical and Christians should NOT be using political means(which some try to, which is not what is taught in the New Testament) to “Christianize” anyone; where anything is ‘political’ God Himself establishes without human(i.e. without Christian) aid. True Buddhism is truly non-violent and apolitical which accounts for many formerly Buddhist lands becoming Islamic(eg. Afghanistan, even parts of Northern India/Pakistan, many south east Asian nations – though conversion to Islam in southeast Asia was partly political rather than by force). Hinduism has no ‘concrete’ dogmas, a highly syncretic religion and basically a ‘national religion’ of India and not known, at least in its common forms, to be violence-promoting. Only Islam – with its tenets even encompassing political iedology – is truly dangerous politically. Why the non-Muslim world(especially the West) is unable to deal with Islam is because they only view Islam as a religion and ignore its political nature. And we all the world over(except perhaps nutheads) agree to the principle of freedom of conscience/religion. Islam has exploited that to allow its tentacles to infiltrate the non-Muslim world – our respect for this freedom of conscience/religion becomes a weakness. If only we recognize the political aspect of Islam – that it is truly a threat to the existence of non-Muslims – clearly spelled out in its political doctrines – only then can we even begin to formulate a policy/policies of how to deal with Islamic terrorism. The problem of Islamic terrorism is not terrorism – it is Islam itself- that ideology is the root of its fatal ramifications. Our politicians can never solve Islamic terrorism if they cannot appreciate this fundamental aspect of Islam. With the current trend, I don’t think the West(and finally all non-Muslim nations) will be able to overcome the Islamic movement – if they truly unite. Also, moderate Muslims are more religious than our average Catholic. I live in a Muslim country. Many Muslims have this holier-than-thou attitude – thinking that all non-Muslims are ‘morally lax’. It feeds to their superiority-inferiority complex ego. For example they assume ALL Chinese girls are ‘easy girls’ and ALL we Chinese guys are the gambling , drinking , womanizing sort that feeds their sense of ‘moral superiority’, something which they are so detached from reality! No second guess as to what most Muslims think of the average Westerner. Also I remembered visiting a public university in my country and there was a slogan written ‘Musnahkan Israel! Musnahkan Yahudi! Hidup Palestin!'(translated: Destroy Israel!Destroy the Jews! Long-live Palestine[i.e. Palestinian Arabs]) – my country, in which the Jews have no dealings whatsoever- but due to Islam, my country is anti-Jewish. Thought I shared with all of you because most of you don’t live in a majority-Muslim nation. And my country practices a more ‘moderate’ Sunni sect! I have no second thoughts about the intent and nature of Islam unlike many beguiled Westerner.
    With regards to science, Darwinism, Mormons etc. Agree with your point about Mormonism. Agree about the role of science in disproving unfactual claims made by religions(and philosophers). Regarding Darwinism – let’s assume that this theory disproves the Old Testament account of Creation – it disproves Christianity(and thus Judaism) as truth; i.e. the God of the Bible is not true. However, Darwinism cannot prove that God(or gods) do not exist. For example, some intelligent beings might have ‘guided’ evolution to produce the life forms we perceive. Or that higher beings of a superuniverse created and upheld our universe. We can not yet prove that higher beings did not ‘form’ us even if Darwinism is correct. My view on Darwinism is that , since I am no fossil expert, but based on my interest in molecular and cellular biology, hard to accept. I do not deny that ‘microevolution’ occurs. I remember still during high school biology when I learned about Evolutionary Theory when the biology book mentioned about Darwin’s finches and Biston betularia illustrating natural selection. I’ve no doubt natural selection occurs. I doubt though, the mechanisms mentioned in orthodox(i.e. Darwinian) and other newer unorthodox evolutionary theories actually explain our origins. My own interest , in my youth, of trying to ‘create life’ later made me doubt the validity of Darwinism or Evolutionary Theory in explaining the origin of life itself. Every explanation given by scientists can always be seen in a counterexplanation. I have no problems with the facts but with the interpretations thereof. It’s hard for me to explain all these things here but should one day I actually blog, I’ll invite you to see my points and we can always have a civil discussion at anytime.


    • Dear Sinotibetan

      sadly we live in the same country, and i feel your concern regarding the majority religion that rule this country… only one correction regarding our country and “State of Israel” relationship… instead of not having any relation, actually our country have “few” advance technology dealing with them, actually i doubt any country have 100% no-relationship with them, since if US thinks of Iraq-Iran-N.Korea as the axis of evil, then i would call S.Arabia-Israel-US as the “de facto” ruler of this world (S.Arabia (funding), Israel (scientific technology), and US (The executer)) … well anyway in our beloved country we also have 1-2 sinagoge… i know all this information because some of my cousin work with them here… hope this enlightened you…as it was me once…



      • sinotibetan says

        Dear Shanaou,
        Thanks for your comments, Shanaou. Didn’t know there are synagogues in our country. The situation of our nation is very gloomy indeed. Hope for the best!


  21. Dear sinotibetan, thank you for your reply! Your points on Islam are very well taken. Since you llive in a Muslim-majority country, I must accede to your personal experience on this point. I am very relieved that I do not live in a Muslim-majority country, and hope I never have to! All of the things that I like – wine, beer, beautiful women, etc., would be frowned upon, if not outright banned!
    I also agree with you that many of the so-called “moderate” Muslims that you see opining on TV (“Islam is a religion of peace… blah blah blah”), clearly are being deceptive and providing political cover for the violent jihhadists.
    Re. evolution: well, it is true that science cannot provide a theory for the actual beginning of life (inorganic to organic). However, where science picks up, at the level of basic life (yeasts, bacteria, etc.), now it can successfully trace, through molecular DNA, the evolutionary lineage. For example, if scientists took a sample of Bob’s DNA and DNA from Bob’s cousin, then they would know who their common grandmother is. Similarly, comparing DNA from humans and chimpanzees show that there was a common ancestor. And this common ancestor, in turn, was cousins with the common ancestor of certain other mammals. And so on, going all the way back to fishes, worms, and even bacterias and yeasts. The lineage is all there, in the molecular code of the DNA. Darwin didn’t have that tool at his disposal and did not even know that DNA existed, but he made a pretty good guess even without it. He was wrong about certain fine points of his theory (for example, many evolutionary scientists do not believe any more that natural selection was the major mechanism of evolution), but there can be no dispute any more that evolution itself took place, pretty much as Darwin described. We humans are all evolved from very primitive forms, and are cousins with all the other animals that inhabit the Earth. Having said that, it is true that scientists cannot show when, how, or if inorganic molecules became living molecules. So, I guess religion can still ponder about that moment. And yes, maybe there were intelligent space beings from another galaxy who created life on Earth. I kind of hope that turns out to be true, because that would be really cool!

    • About evolution of humans, you should take the very low genetic diversity into account. It seems what we look like developed out of a small population in eastern Africa and then spread north in several waves, but the later the waves, the less intermixing with the other humanoids was. So maybe we are the offspring of some deceiving dangerous ancestors who didn’t want others around. In Islam such a concept gets expressed at the root of the religion. Other religions don’t find it there, so they create it. But it’s equally true that all religions do and did also develop into different forms and Central Asia, Bangladesh and Indonesia perhaps one of the best examples of a peaceful choice for Islam. Of course power and population shifts lead to changes of religion like in medieval Spain.

  22. Where would you put Israel? It’s small and in a very bad location, but it has a large nuclear arsenal, a very strong (if preoccupied) conventional military, high levels of human capital, a large and growing high-tech sector, a close relationship with the United States, and good demographics.

  23. sinotibetan says

    Dear yalensis,
    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
    Even as we talk about Islam, Russia is being rocked by a suicide-bombing attack! Would’n’t be surprised if it might be, yet again, an Islamic jihadist attack. I think the non-Muslim world is fed up of all these but none of our politicians have a clue how to deal with this.
    I read your explanation regarding molecular DNA with keen interest.
    “However, where science picks up, at the level of basic life (yeasts, bacteria, etc.), now it can successfully trace, through molecular DNA, the evolutionary lineage.”
    It supposedly claim to be able to do it, in my opinion. The problem with this is that similarities in DNA components do not actually prove evolution occurs or that a common ancestor exists. And there is a circularity in using this statement to ‘prove evolution’ because one uses evolution as the ‘scaffold’ to build up phylogenetic links via molecular DNA analysis and that is used to prove the ‘scaffold'(i.e. evolution). Regarding the so-called ‘common ancestor’, no one has discovered the putative ‘common ancestor’ of all life forms for example – “apparently it has become extinct” is used to respond to critics. Even then, no scientist can tell us what is the ‘common ancestor’ of archaeon and eubacteria or the ‘common ancestor’ of archaeon and eukaryota for that matter. ‘Phylogenetically’ archaeon were placed closer to eukaryota based on the existence of introns in archaeon genes but archaeons are prokaryotes like eubacteria. What I mean is that similarities in molecular DNA components can be explained by so many possibilities – not necessarily evolution by ‘blind chance’ only. For example:-
    Model 1 = Evolutionary theory.
    Model 2 = Intelligent being(s) form/create life with some similarities and thus having molecular DNA characteristics which are similar.
    A simple analogy would be bicycles, motorcycles, cars, trucks, bus etc. all contain tyres/wheels.Tyres/wheels are found in all these – but changed in certain characteristics to suit different needs. But we know that bicycles did not evolve to motorcycles for example, even though both are two-wheeled vehicles and share similarities(at least in being two-wheeled). Engines of a BMW Sedan and a Ferrari sportscar may have similarities but enough differences yet we don’t use similarities in both engines to infer or prove that both cars evolved from a ‘common ancestor car’. One might say we KNOW that these vehicles were manufactured by man’s ingenuity. But imagine we assume that these vehicles are left with an alien(but intelligent) being who never saw these things before and never saw these manufactured by mankind – can it, by seeing certain similarities , infer or prove that these evolved? While it may conclude that they might have evolved, it cannot conclusively prove it did unless it can observe the vehicles really evolving(eg. a ‘common ancestor car’ changing into the different variety of cars). I know, I might have stretched this analogy too far: DNA is far too complex compared to cars or wheels but that complexity makes it even less likely to have evolved out of a random soup of carbon, oxygen, phosphorus, hydrogen and nitrogen. Even if we ignore that and talk about molecular DNA somehow ‘evolved’ – the mechanisms scientists tout as ‘evolutionary processes’ such as transposable elements within DNA, retrotransposons, mutagenesis during the moeisis of the gametes etc. account enough for ‘microevolution’ but not ‘macroevolution’. Even a ‘simple’ E.coli is not simple! And in spite of all the ‘evolutionary processes’ inflicted on let’s say E.coli, it does not tansform into…say a gram positive organism(E. coli is gram negative) and by all means remain E. coli. Microevolution certainly occurs. Macroevolution by blind chance is a possibility but I believe based on current data, that possibility is extremely miniscule. I think ‘macroevolution by blind chance’ has not enough evidence to be considered a proven, and hence, a scientific theory – inasmuch as other models of origins are just as unproven and unscientific.
    “Having said that, it is true that scientists cannot show when, how, or if inorganic molecules became living molecules.”
    To me, this statement of truth is fatal to evolutionary theory as an undisputed fact. Having a profound liking for DNA, RNA and amino acids and the more I ponder knowing about them, the more I believe that these beautiful ‘language molecules'(they all contain messages and are actually codes and languages!) arising randomly -though one cannot prove that can or cannot occur – that probability is extremely remote. All the experiments done to ‘prove’ how these molecules arose to become ‘living’ or how amino acids can be formed in putative ‘early earth atmospheres’ like the well-known Miller-Urey experiment etc, can be counterexplained.
    Having said that, it’s true that the majority of scientists (I’d dare to say the word: religiously believe)believe in evolutionary theory as true and undisputed fact, any scientist(like I and a minority of others)who don’t are ridiculed almost like religious heretics. Thankfully, in my part of the world, we are not ‘persecuted'(eg. no promotions, being ridiculed) in not conforming to majority concensus. Truth is not by concensus opinion though. My position: is Evolutionary Theory of Origins is unproven and not an undisputable fact. It is possible but highly improbable. Science is a great tool to differentiate truths from non-truths but it is fallible(as humans are fallible) and has its limitations – and one of it is science does not have, at the moment, enough power to extrapolate on our true origins. If evolution theory is true, it proves Christianity (and other major monotheistic faiths) to be error but it does not prove God(or ‘gods’) do not exist and one cannot conclude atheism is then true.
    Sorry for this long reply. Although I don’t think you’ll agree with me…but I’d thought of sharing what I understand.


  24. Dear sinotibetan: Thanks again for your interesting reply. I understand your argument that an intelligent being could have used the same parts (DNA) to create animals and humans, etc., in the same way that people design bicycles and automobiles, using similar parts (wheels, gears, etc.) However, I believe this argument was refuted quite brilliantly in the works of Stephen Jay Gould. One of the most powerful arguments in favor of evolution, in my opinion, is the fact that organic beings are so IMPERFECT. For example, in his book “Panda’s Thumb”, Gould details many examples of flawed designs in various creatures. In other words, any supernatural beings intelligent enough to create humans should have done a better job. To me it looks like they just phoned it in and made a terrible hash of things. I myself could have done a better job and created more perfect creatures, had I these kinds of godlike powers. For example, I would have made humans with 3 or 4 arms, so they could get more things done (or play several musical instruments) at the same time. I would have given humans eyes on the back of their heads so they could see predators approaching. I would have made extra backup copies of such vital organs as the brain, heart and liver. And don’t even get me started on the digestive system: there is this one section of the large colon that traverses HORIZONTALLY. AS a result of this, many humans suffer from constipation. An intelligent designer of a plumbing system would make the pipes all go downhill. And so on, many other examples. Also, why do humans have to age and decay? The only reasonable explanation for these imperfections is that we evolved somewhat randomly, with parts added on here and there, in the same way that certain cities have grown up and developed over the centuries, with streets too narrow for traffic and houses at odd angles.
    I do take your point about how science should not be dogmatic. So long as a scientist is honest and produces good research, he should not be ostracized or denied promotions or publication simply because his views are different from the majority of his peers. That is wrong and damaging to science itself. Many of the greatest scientists were considered heretics during their own time. In summary, I wish you well in your own scientific research and career!

    • sinotibetan says

      Dear yalensis,
      Thank you for your reply. You brought up some interesting points. I agree with you regarding scientists should not form different ‘parties’ to ostrasize those who do not quite agree with their views. Not just evolutionary theory even in other fields: some may even become so personal when their hypothesis have become invalidated or challenged. Guess all these are part of being human.And thank you for your well wishes! 🙂
      Regarding imperfections in nature and decay – well, in Christianity – the first humans and the universe were ORIGINALLY perfect. When the first human pair sinned, God cursed mankind and nature to decay, destruction and those with ‘nephesh’ – death. This explains IMPERFECTION that exist in nature. That’s of course, Christianity’s explanation of why things are no longer perfect or good. The laws of physics might even have changed, and that’s inferred if the Biblical account is true – perhaps the second law of thermodynamics did not exist in the universe just created. Science is based on assumptions and one of that assumption is the immutability of the laws of physics. I think that assumption is valid only to the extend that no one has yet observed the laws of physics being violated – if a phenomenon violates what is known and keeps recurring, then current theories of the laws of physics are thrown into crisis and then new hypotheses need to be forged. However, that ‘axiom’ or ‘assumption’ cannot be proven. It is plausible and not unreasonable to postulate that some other being, far superior to us, can actually control, uphold, change and perhaps ‘created’ the laws of physics in our universe. Unprovable but not logically untenable. I do appreciate science and understand its great power in deciding some(in fact, man y) truths but I do not believe that science has that unlimited power nor the ‘perfection'(since it is a human endeavour) to postulate on ‘ultimate’ origins because postulation regarding ‘ultimate’ origins is ultimately unobservable and belong to the realm of the metaphysical and unprovable axioms. Hence, the ‘Biblical model’ of origins starts with a perfect universe and perfect biological systems that became imperfect, degenerated, corrupted and subject to decay after being cursed by the Creator. The universe we live in, is therefore a cursed one. Henceforth, to try to extrapolate about the ultimate origin of life, for example, will be flawed because when we see imperfections in biology(which I agree, they are – many are real[example deleterious mutations] , some imagined), we thus assume that a Creator(s) is not plausible. Actually flaws in biological system do not discount the possibility of life being ‘created’ – apart from this ‘Biblical explanation’, other models may include – Creators which are far smarter than us but not flawless ; or the Creators were not of good character(which is assumed in Christianity for example – although critics might argue that the God depicted in the Bible is not good). Again, as I’ve mentioned, the finding of ‘flaws’ in biological system cannot prove atheism. Many other models can still fit current data gleaned in biology, not just ‘blind chance evolution’.
      Anyway, although I think we do not agree on this issue, I am thankful that you took interest in discussing these disparate views. I think I’ve ‘inundiated’ Anatoly’s blog with this topic and it’s so tangential from the original topic of discussion! Hence, I think I’m going back to the political discussions again. Thank you for bearing with me!


      • No problem, sinotibetan! I am also guilty of cluttering Anatoly’s blog with my intellectual musings. I believe he tolerates us because he has a Russian soul, and Russians are tolerant by nature, especially to philosophical ramblings. 🙂

        • I’ve learned a lot of differing perspectives and on the states of these countries and society from these comments, especially from yours and sinotibetan’s. Thanks for sharing!

          I have tried to understand the society and how we have changed, and also on how all these things (the people, the nations, culture, society) affect each other. I think it’s interesting that there are scientific explanations and I myself noted that scientific changes/effects could have effects on the society and networks between people and places. Or mainly the relations between things – the cause and effects. (btw is there a major/minor for this type of field? cause I kinda want to study them in college as a Minor).

  25. Tetsuya Sellers says

    Probably Islam is political in the same way that the West is materialistic. If the spokespeople of Islam talk of peace it is probably no different from the talking heads of the West speaking of “democracy.” The golden age of Islam is similar to the Western Renaisance, when both cultures were at there most liberated in terms of their posibilities and capacities. The West was coming out of the confinement of the Middle Ages and approaching the “maturity” of the industrial revolution. The Islamic states had pretty much fullfilled their political agenda (missionizing and conquering) and were entering in to maturated phase of secularism and even global trade.
    The modern technologies combined with a sense of decline is giving fuel to this basic ethos of conquest. In the same way Europe during the dark ages was confined geographically (the western edge of civilization) as well as politically (the Roman empire had just crumbled and was replaced by the Catholic church) this gave zeal to the natural buligerence of Western culture.
    The far Eastern cultures like china and India have a culture generally based on practical wisdom, asceticism, collectivism, etc. They are generally proud of ancient heritages and timeless lineages which go back to the very start of their existences. Their philosophies were developped in more materialistic ages when they experienced a sense of cultural disunity combined with a certain “free market economy” of philosophers. On a structural level the unity of very old and very new in the East allows it to recover quickly from long periods of isolation and “slumber” as they would call it. In the west it would be called “stagnation.”
    I think Spengler touched on cultures having a diferent ethos, and ironically socionics describes relationships between differnent formal and informal value systems/stages of development.
    Socionics is a branch of psychology which was developped by the Soviets in the nineteen seventies which is an extention of Jung personality theory. Socionics tries to schematize people and relationships according to formal and informal stages of development and behaviors. Taken abstractly its usefull in pointing out interesting features. It is possible that cultural values are determined by geography and history in the same way that personality and its expression is determined by genes and environment.
    Sorry if this is long or rambling. I should probably start my own blog as well.

    • @Tetsuya: You make a lot of good points! I had never heard of the discipline of “socionics”, but it does sound intriguing. Are there any books available in Russian or English; or was this all just academic publications?

    • Socionics is like Lamarckism: bunk. Jung was not even scientific in Psychology and like Freud his contributions are now known to be largely ancedotal and unscientific.

    • sinotibetan says

      Dear Tetsuya,
      Very interesting!
      The golden age of Islam is similar to the Western Renaisance, when both cultures were at there most liberated in terms of their posibilities and capacities. ”
      The Golden Age of Islam happened IN SPITE of Islam. Nevertheless, although the Islamic nations managed to conserve knowledge derived from other nations, the in-built ‘anti-intellectual’ characteristics of Islam limit innovation and quest for ‘new’ knowledge which demands a curiosity and criticism of the status quo, a kind of freedom not permitted in
      Islamic societies. The political dogma of Islam is similar to that of Roman Catholicism and the reason why the ‘golden age’ of Islam even occurred was because those Sultans did not really practice Islam as strictly as it should.
      You are quite right about China and the Chinese. Yes, we look back at a civilizational continuity that is nearly 4000 years old.
      Actually, in spite of me often critisizing the West, I am no Western-basher. In fact, I admire the West in so many ways – its innovative spirit, its daring to challenge status quo, its scientific achievements(I admire this the most) and a lot of its culture(I am actually quite a Europhile also ,who happens to like European classical music among other things). But I’d prefer the some aspects of the West of the PAST rather than the present. Certain good traits found in , actually, European civilizations(plural, because it’s not one civilization but many with similarities and ‘inter-influences’) of the past, are the reason for the West’s current success. Unfortunately, I feel, Westerners have abandoned those same values that made them great.. Not only abandoned but even denying them. I look at present Western Europe and those Central/Eastern Europe nations who try to emulate them, with a sense of sadness. We Chinese like civilization and successful nations and learning. Somehow, Europe is slowly being ‘de-Europeanized’ by the policies of their politicians. Sad. Anyhow, I hope my people will not follow the footsteps of current day West and hope one day we , the Chinese, too will contribute knowledged and science and civilization once more to mankind.


      • sinotibetan says

        And admittedly, I have a fondness for Russia as well.
        I really cannot agree with those Russophobes who always paint Russia negatively with not one good thing to say about that great nation.
        A nation that gave us Mendeleev and Tschaikovsky cannot be as bad as what those Russophobes want the whole world to believe!


  26. Your estimates are way off. China is considerably smaller in economic scale than even France or Germany. There is a lot of propaganda that they spread that misrepresents the facts. Likewise, as for investment in the USA, Canada has many times more dollars invested than China. China is a threat, and we should not be trading with them, but at no time in the near future will they be a super power. They cannot even adequately feed and clothe and shelter their growing population and they know this is a problem. Most of their military is for internal deployment, in the event of famine: yes, they’re prepared to kill their surplus population to avoid collapse.

  27. sinotibetan says

    “China is considerably smaller in economic scale than even France or Germany.”
    Yes and No. As a whole, yes – because China’s population is nearly 10 times France plus Germany. However, as I’ve mentioned even if 10% of the population of the coastal provinces achieve economic parity with the richest of the USA, it would be an economic force to reckon with. The coastal provinces by themselves, culturally very homogeneous(>98% Han) and with a population of 430,000,000(more than the population of USA) can by themselves, if they can attain the level of the USA, be enough to be economically powerful. China’s problem is to maintain socio-political stability in order to pursue maximum economic benefits. That’s her Archiles’ heal that the USA knows ….hence the American obssession on ‘human rights’ to socio-politically destabilize this rival.
    “China is a threat, and we should not be trading with them, but at no time in the near future will they be a super power. ”
    If the Americans don’t trade with them, others will(eg. Europeans, Russians, other Asian nations etc.). The world has become so intricately linked that the USA cannot afford to not trade with a nation that has 20% of the world’s population and the zeal to succeed. China aspires to be a super-power – you are right, even in the near future, it might not be and is in danger of becoming destabilized by America’s machinations. America is a lone super-power but has led arrogance, self-indulgence, constant interferring with other nations’ internal affairs, socio-economic and political dogmatism cloud its judgement. Self-complacency has made her lose steam to succeed by dogged persistence and hardwork. We in Asia have seen poverty and have known suffering that we will do anything to succeed and will work till we succeed. That work ethic is slowly being eroded in America. America now has to maintain its superpower status – and that status is being eroded daily because America is rotting FROM WITHIN. America views rivals such as China, Russia and (I suspect) even the EU as threats to its sole world-wide hegemony but fails to see the less tangible threats. It’s easy to pick up a rival nation and bash it up. It’s harder to see flaws within one’s own system / political ‘values’, especially if that country thinks it is unbeatable, and remedy them before it’s too late. Islam is a real threat but America has practically lost it because it is not recognized as a threat. The unbriddled capitalism, those greedy bankers, etc. are internal threats – but nothing concrete has been done to remedy these flaws in her economic system.The inability to form a SINGLE, DOMINANT ethnocultural identity due to the ‘flux’ situation of its society puts America at the risk of future ethnic strife. Etc. etc.
    “They cannot even adequately feed and clothe and shelter their growing population and they know this is a problem. ”
    The population growth is markedly slowing because of a tremendous drop in TFR. In fact, China’s future problem will not be population growth but population aging at a massive and rapid pace. Its one-child policy(which I disagree with, Vietnam’s former ‘two-child-policy’ is closer to demographic stabilization) means one child has to take care of two parents and that will be a massive social issue and a possible source of socio-political destabilization. The other problem that can destabilize the country is the male:female ratio. Due to Chinese preference for male progeny, female infanticide is very high leading to this disparity. I read somewhere, by 2030, there will be in excess 30,000,000 males over females and when males have to compete for limited females, guess I don’t have to detail what can happen. It’s not true that China cannot adequately feed/clothe its population – China has improved so much compared to even 10 years ago. My relatives and friends who visited our motherland were astonished at the rapid pace of socio-economic development. My relative who is from a poor part of Guangdong used to rely on those relatives from South East Asia for charity. Now, he is far richer than any of us and perhaps we need his charitable act! Compare India and China, then China is ‘heaven’. And don’t forget there are many homeless and poor people in the US also. Your statement is simply untrue.
    “Most of their military is for internal deployment”
    China is chong quo -the Middle Kingdom. We are more pre-occupied with ourselves. If the military is really to maintain internal stability, then it’s a good thing. I do not wish to see China become military ‘busybodies’ like America.
    “yes, they’re prepared to kill their surplus population to avoid collapse.”
    Another provocative statement which is not really true. They are willing to squash all dissent that will threaten political stability. It may be morally wrong to do so, but don’t think American politicians really care for the freedom of Tibetans, or Uyghurs or Inner Mongolians nor do they care a hoot about the welfare of these people. The political cause of these peoples are used as pawns by American politicians(‘championed’ but all for equally immoral motives) to bring down China. Let me ask you, in a purely hypothetical situation, if one day the Hispanics decide to demand a free state for themselves within the USA, threatening national integrity, do you think the American politicians will talk human rights to them and treat them ‘nicely? To be honest, I morally do not agree with the suppression of Tibetans and Inner Mongolians. I also think they should be given autonomy, and for Tibet, independence. If the American politicians have true goodwill, they should think of more innovative ideas to persuade the Chinese government to sit down and negotiate a political solution to the grieviences of these people. America supporting dissidents is not an innovative diplomatic act. America’s so ever predictable diplomatic posturing in dealing with China’s dissidents reveals its disinterest in truly championing the rights of oppressed minorities but merely as a means to destabilize a potential rival nation. I don’t see a progrom killing of excess population – so your statement is not true. Moreover, the current regime, though evil and corrupt, is still better than the capricious behaviours of some of our infamous Emperors, or Mao even. The majority of Chinese just want political stability and to succeed materially. Unlike Westerners, as long as these can be maintained, the majority will not revolt for some ‘ideal’. We are a very pragmatic people.


    • Many, many good points, sinotibetan! I believe you have successfully refuted the other commenter who made an ignorant and libellous claim that Chinese government would slaughter its own excess population. They would do no such thing. At most they might encourage, through incentives, population to migrate internally to less populated, more agricultural, regions.
      My two cents on the disparity between males and females in China: from afar, it was always my sense that the one-child policy was a gross mistake and would lead to a future imbalance in the gender ratio. There is always a problem in societies in which a significant number of young males cannot find wives. From a purely logical point of view, the solution would be polyandry (one woman having several husbands). That would also keep the birthrate down. However, I realize such a solution is legally and culturally impossible in China. Therefore the unattached young males will either form a possible criminal sub-caste, or they will emigrate in search of brides, or they will import brides from other countries. Those are the only 3 possibilities I can think of at this time.

      • Almost exhaustive answer yalensis.
        What about being homosexual? That also helps solve lots of problems because they can rent a mother and raise the child. Lest not forget there tend to be less exclusively homosexual women than men and there are a lot more men who can enjoy homosexuality than men outright saying they are only homosexual.
        Sure, there’s a problem to it, being a homosexual in China. Perhaps sinotibetan can say more about that.

        • I don’t think the Chinese have the time to be homosexual. Maybe in the future when they become more modern and rich, but not anytime soon.

        • Oh and trust me, there’s a relation between time, money, survivability and homosexuality. You’ll find that in (non-industrialized) places such as Africa, homosexuality is virtually nonexistent, yet in America and other modernizing nations, there are many homosexuals. Although correlation does not imply causation, there is still a relation.

          • That explains the Pashtuns in Afghanistan. They would never have sex with other males.

            • Wow, I didn’t know about this.
              Of course, “there are outliers”.

              Other people, let me know if I’m still wrong.

              • The Thai don’t seem to be that anti gay. Nor the Greek or Romans. Africa is also recently converted to Christianity and those places are often strict followers. They are more relaxed in places like South America where they have been baptized for centuries. Finding gays in a place you really end up in jail if you are one is difficult but that doesn’t mean there are fewer of them

        • I thing the protestant sinotibetan is to busy to explain why muslims and catholics are on the road to damnation to look into it.

  28. sinotibetan says

    Dear yalensis,
    Thank you for your thoughtful replies. I have to say I need to thank Anatoly for allowing(tolerating) me to talk about my out-of-topic philosophical ramblings as well! I’ll try not to do it again, Anatoly! Yes, another positive point about the tolerance of Russians. Shame on the Russophobes!
    Your thoughts regarding possible solutions to the male:female disparity in China are very interesting. The formation of a criminal sub-caste by unmarried males is a frightening possibility. In think the current Chinese government is really worried about that….30,000,000 people is more than enough to bring the country into chaos. Emigrating in search of brides is an intriguing possibility but I suspect in future, countries are beginning to learn that they cannot absorb too many migrants form cultures/ethnicities that are too distinct from host countries as that will destablize their own countries and I don’t blame them – logically, it’s not possible to do so. So, that option is a limited one. Even ‘culturally-similar’ nations like the two Koreas, Vietnam and to a much lesser extend Japan, will not tolerate too many Chinese migrants from China plus I doubt these males are keen to go to North Korea or Vietnam! Despite some similarities in appearances and cultures, Koreans and Vietnamese view themselves as totally different and distinct from us Chinese. “Mail-ordered-bride” from Vietnam is common nowadays amongst the Chinese diaspora as well as the Taiwanese(the ‘modern’ Chinese ladies have learned to become ‘picky’ like their Western sisters) but I don’t think there will be enough ‘supplies’ of ladies if China also demands them! Hmmm….will the Vietnamese then start churning females to ‘supply’ male Chinese clients – an ‘enterprise’ that takes at least 20 years to fruition? Not only does that sound morally reprehensible, national pride of the Vietnamese will prevent such ‘enterprise’ growing ‘large scale’. I doubt also that Chinese males will go to Africa or South East Asia to look for native brides amongst these nations because our concept of beauty is a fair-skinned girl(hence the comsumption of beauty products amongst Asian ladies -like skin whitening – is very high!).
    ” from afar, it was always my sense that the one-child policy was a gross mistake and would lead to a future imbalance in the gender ratio”
    Agree with you 100%.


    • Which leaves only polyandry as a viable solution. One lovely Chinese lady should take two husbands. Each husband gets to sleep with wife every other night. Husbands need not worry about who is father of which children — DNA testing can determine, if it is an issue with them.

      • sinotibetan says

        Hmmm. Confucius will get up from his grave if that happens! Most likely they will find mates amongst the ‘unseen’ females of aboriginal peoples in China. Minority
        tribes in China live in remote corners and are not under the one-child-policy.
        Otherwise, the social issues leading to unrest will happen and I think the Government
        will have to relax the one-child-policy and punish perpetrators of
        female infanticide soon.


  29. sinotibetan says

    Anatoly and yalensis,
    Regarding Saudi Arabia/Muslim world:
    ‘Revolutions’ in the Muslim world are happening an alarming pace – Tunisia, Yemen and now Egypt. Egypt is a large Arab state and who finally rules that country will have ramifications for an enduring trend in the Muslim world – their eventual ‘pure Islamization’ and ‘radicalization’ – a process the West(especially America and to a certain extend, the EU states) had a part – by their lack of understanding of Islamic machinations and aims plus their so-called support for ‘democracy’. I think current events justify my point that S. Arabia will be more influential than Turkey in the Muslim world. In fact, Turkey is slowly but surely moving away from the secularism of Mustafa Kamal Ataturk to Islamism. It’s a global phenomenon, I think planned for a long time by more conservative Sunni clerics who view secular governments as threats to their lust for totalitarian political power. I wonder if Islamic radicals, behind the Green Curtain deep within the heart of Saudi Arabia, have something to do with the almost ‘concurrent’ unrest in the Middle East.
    The West supports ‘democratization’ in the Middle East. Whilst it’s true that the former Saddam regime, and other authoritharian regimes like Mubarak et al are oppressive – the West fails to see that the popular sentiment amongst young Arabs and Muslims is Islamic radicalism. If the democratic process and freedoms are allowed, radicals will be brought up to power. Interestingly, in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood faction(Islamist) is one of the major ‘pro-democracy’ faction. I think the ‘pro-democracy’ factions in all Arab and Muslim countries are dominated by Islamists , with of course ‘liberals’ and ‘moderates’ on board. But once these topple the curent regimes, Islamists – by their religious and political zeal, utter resoluteness and a cunning and deceit encouraged in Islam – will rule them all; it is doubtful that the moderates and liberals will survive the subsequent ‘purges’. It’s ok in Islam to eliminate ‘undesirables’ once the aim(i.e. subjugation to Islam) is achieved. Even in my country, a ‘moderate’ Muslim nation(yalensis – it’s not good but not so bad YET in my country – we still have some ‘freedom'[including beer and wine] because ~ 30-40% of the population are not Muslims) in which its pseudo-democracy is held by ‘nominal’ Muslim rulers symbiotic with businessman-plutocrats, the main ‘pro-democratic’ faction is held by an Islamist party in an unlikely alliance with secularist parties. I am sure that such ‘political arrangement’ is temporary. Once they gain the upper hand, I am sure Islamists have no qualms in “Islamizing” all of us. Non-Muslims will be reduced to dhimmitude(a form of oppression and ‘second-classs’ rights) so that we will ultimately be slowly coerced to be Islamized.
    I believe the writing-on-the-wall is shown now for Western nations. They , in the West, are still asleep and definitely are clueless as to how to deal with Islam. Putin is only slightly better than his Western counterparts but at least he is no wimp like current Western leaders. Better wake up before it’s too late!
    As for Iran, it’s just as oppressive and Islamist theocratic Government as what the Sunni Islamic radicals hope to achieve, except they are Shiite. The difference is that some Iranians have probably realised that an Islamic theocratic government is a failure. The problem is I am not sure if they will instead embrace a Sunni theocratic government(probably by ethnic groups with Sunni faith) or a secular government(as I doubt Iranians will accept Sunni just because they dislike the Arabs). Interesting times we live in.


    • On what bases you classify the Muslism Brotherhood as pro-democracy’ faction ??

      • That’s what they want outsiders to see them as. It helps with their cause if ignorants only recognize the title, but not the intention. But it’s not pro-democracy (I think).

        • Most parties are in their heart not democratic. But for most politicians their biggest enemies are party members belonging to a different “family” and not other parties and there is always the next election to recover the losses. And if not you are not powerful enough to win anyway

  30. sinotibetan says
  31. From a blog called Secular Right: a statistical (graphic) comparison of the Big 5 European countries:

  32. sinotibetan says

    Agree that those 5 Western European nations are the ‘big five’.
    Germany takes the lead, in my opinion, in spite of low fertility and dwindling population. Super high-tech Germans.
    Spain – I suspect is going to join the ranks of Ireland et. al.
    UK and France will face looming social issues due to its ongoing ‘Africanization’ and “Islamization'(too many difficult-to-integrate migrants).
    The EU , on the whole, I suspect, will politically veer to the right as politicians there will one day have no choice but listen to the voice of a growing population of right-wing Europeans who are tired of political-correctness. They will do so in order to survive politically. I’m not sure though whether it will be too late to avert a full scale inter-ethnic conflict in the EU as non-European populations(mostly Africans and Muslims) continue to grow incessantly.


    • My favorite thing about your one sided remarks are that they are in English, posted on the American invented Internet, and probably on an American operating system. Look back 100 years and see what America has done for the world. Don’t forget to look at the good things too which you obviously haven’t been paying much attention to at all.

      • sinotibetan says


        Yes, you are right to say that I have been one-sided in highlighting only the ‘negatives’ about the US. Not that I do not value the good things that the USA has/has done. I think USA leads in terms of science and technology – no doubt about that. However, I do not think that the political system of the USA or some of its modern ideologues contribute positively to other nations. I had focused on such things while ignoring America’s scientific and technological achievements – hence the mostly negative comments.


  33. Germany reminds me of this situation, which most of us have probably encountered in the workplace: There is a team of workers, and officially they are all equal, have the same title, receive the same salary. But everyone knows that there is a “star” on that team, an exceptional worker who does most of the work of that team. But, due to political reasons, that person cannot be promoted, he has to keep his head down and pretend that he’s just like everyone else. That’s Germany: should be the “star player” of Europe, but must hold back shyly and pretend to be just another regular European country. (For obvious, historical reasons; plus the fact that they’re STILL not technically a sovereign state and are military “occupied” by American bases for all intents and purposes.)

    • We want more Americans than we have left because they pay good cash to our economy. So no feeling of oppression. The problem is rather that 1933 to 1945 we pursued a nasty robbery that is taken as a moral baseball bat every time we say something unpleasant. However, we Germans have also been very reluctant to acknowledge our misdeeds, at least if it meant paying money as compensation or being disowned of something.

  34. Turkey ahead of Canada, South Korea or Italy?

    You must be Turkish… Turkey is going to be a pretty important country if the current growth continues, but this is still a question of if and when.

    • I agree. You’re absolutely right. Turkey is still a developing country. Turkey has a population almost twice of South Korea but their GDP is not even half of South Korea’s, it’s developing fast but still a long way to go to catch up with South Korea, Italy and Canada’s. Yeah he must be Turkish.

      • SK 1,5b USD
        Turkey 1,1 b USD ppp 2011
        already catched up…
        by 2025 Turkey will pass Italy ( already passed Spain SK and Canada in 20s) and will be the 4th largest economy in Europe and 11th in thw world as predicted.

    • You can’t measure power with just economical standings. Yes maybe Canada, South Korea and even Italy have better economies at the moment but you also have to consider military power, strategic importance, tourism&image of the country. Turkey has one of the strongest military in the world, South Korea also is strong but Canada’s and Italy’s armies are consideribly weaker and not a match for those two. About strategic importance, Turkey is a bridge of Europe and Asia. Has good relationships with both the West and the East. It’s a country that Middle East and Balkans take as an example. Canada and SK doesn’t have them all, only you can count Italy a bit on that. About tourism Turkey has 2 cities that are on the top 10 cities that are being visited the most in the world. Also it’s the 7th in the world and 5th in the Europe. Italy is better than Turkey at tourism but you won’t be able to see South Korea or Canada anywhere near them about tourism or they don’t draw a powerful figure. When you count them all, Turkey is more powerful than those 3 at overall. Turkey is much stronger for their military than Italy&Canada, has much more powerful relationships than Canada&SK and has a stronger image and tourism than Canada&SK.

      • Also I have to add population. Turkey has estimated to have 74 millions, Italy to have 60 millions, SK to have 48 millions and Canada to have 34 millions. It’s a plus for Turkey to have a high and also a young population.

      • South Korean army is strong in Korea but isn’t build to be an expeditionary force and locally there is nothing to fight for. China is way to strong, Russia is stronger and can go nuclear on its own territory without much harm to itself. Japan is of the same order but with a much bigger population and an ideal guerrilla environment (cities or mountains) and North Korea is not something you want. Besides there is the problem that the long knifes will come out for the officer corp if they are successful as the army isn’t that popular outside the conscripts.

        Turkish army has also the problem that it isn’t world best expeditionary force but they do have the (dis)advantage that they are near the place were fighting will be. It is also much more popular than the Korean army.

        Canada has the problem of the big giant ally to the south. Any army they have will be used as an auxiliary by them and wont never be strong enough to defeat them. So spending money on it is only a tributary payment but has no defensive purpose. And in such case spending as little as possible is the smart choice.

        Italy is not an independent country and as such its military force can only be measured as part of the greater force.

        Culturally Korea is obvious the strongest force. Turkey has some pull in the Arab world and Canada is only seen as a colder and nicer America. I really can’t see how you can diminish the image of Korea.

        Tourism in Turkey is mostly based on Germans getting burned by the sun. But having Europe biggest city helps to. Korea has its massive cultural power to get tourist and they will probably become very successful at that but the countries that import their cultural exports are at this moment in time still a bit to poor for it to be a big industry. It may also be an industry you may not want to have as most jobs in tourism aren’t exactly high paying.

  35. All together You have to know this thing 🙂 Turkey is not unpower cauntry because there is a war in our culture.

  36. you must to remamber in ÇANAKKALE. so many cauntry came to ÇANAKKALE for İSTANBUL but they did not pas. When we had a Çanakkale war we dont have any gun but We knew to win.

    There is a war in our culture.

  37. Yigit Karabag says

    Note to Anatoly:

    As you know I am a big fan of your site and I know comments are welcome on your website but if I read anymore of fully-ignorant-seemingly-civilized-but-full-of-hatred-rose-exchanging comments of sinotibetan & yalensis I might not be able to read your stuff anymore!

    Just kidding…but seriously.

  38. Also, Turkish young population is a lot, I know Italian population is mostly old but Idk Canada and S. Korea

  39. RAVIKUMAR says

    I would rate Brazil, India higher and include both South Africa, Turkey…probably deleting UK…

  40. RAVIKUMAR says

    and would prefer sum-one with more spine than medvedev as the next pres of Russia…

  41. sunny prasad says

    Soon INDIA will no 1 powerful country in the world…….CHAK DE INDIA!!!!!!!!
    JAI HIND JAI BHARAT…………………..

  42. So overall rankings in terms of Military power are :
    North Korea

    • Pakistan and Japan above Germany? How could that ever happen? Is someone overstating nukes?

      • Japan has a much larger population, more aircraft carriers and spends more money on defense than Germany. They have also ICBM’s unlike Germany.

        ps. The Japanese constitution doesn’t allow aircraft carriers or ICBM’s. It does allow helicopter destroyers so big that they can handle VTOL F35 or making solid rockets who compete with ex Sovjet ICBM’s in the the civilian market. But Germany has the advantage that they have those NATO nukes but maybe Japan has something similar.

        • Germany is where? In the middle of allies in Europe with good relations to Russia.
          Japan is where? On the fringe between 3 great powers and the two Koreas.
          Germans have no interest into the nukes in their country and want them to be removed. We think none will try to nuke us because that gives us the chance to nuke back and none doubts we can do that no matter what happens. Israel uses German technology to develop a second strike submarine based platforms for nukes because the latest German subs can shoot torpedoes and guided missiles.
          I’m not arguing about the exact number of military spending or counting nukes and tanks, it’s rather that Japan has the bigger economy that does quite bad and has powerful potential adversaries close at hand. Germany on the other hand is in the most secure position on earth from a military perspective and can think about intervening by choice. Choosing your battles is worth a lot, it made the British Empire. Furthermore Germany is part of the EU with their trade advantages in Europe and beyond, making it part of an economic heavyweight.

          • It is true that Japan is surrounded by superpowers and very bellicose Koreans but it has very secure, natural borders and an open sea to the East. Germany is bang in the middle of Europe with countries that are now allies with Germany but who will say what the future holds as the European/American Alliance is slowly unravelling and Poland will probably choose the wrong side.

      • djcutt1curtis says

        KURT I WANT MY NAME BACK.Man u have embarrist us,yes they got nukes,but how are you going to use them on japan or gremany when you have no air and water millitary transpertation,what u going to do destroy them and your ownself on your own land.hell thats not war,thats foolish.

        • Wow. How stupi- or rather, how OLD are you? If you don’t know enough background knowledge (and it’s a LOT of info, mind you) on all these countries and even more on countries not mentioned here, then just GTF- I mean LEAVE.

    • Definitely not Japan. You are obviously not knowledgeable. Japan doesn’t really have a military. Do you know what happened after the WWII?

      • And the Type 10 is not a tank but simply a tractor with weight issues.

        • djcutt1curtis says

          charly i agree with you about japan,because of air technology,but land,water and crafty inclusion through computers could move them over russia and if ever team up with china could cause a shake up in these top ten,but they must be attach to one of the top three other then that their head has been cut off.

  43. The stupidity in these comments astounds me.

    • RAVIKUMAR says

      Specifically what?

    • i cumpltly agre- lol.

      I completely agree with you. Especially with the LOL-worthy stupid/angryguy comments that djcutt1curtis has posted, and with the PROUD egoistic replies.

      (sinotibetan has even admitted that he is one of those many crackers working for the Chinese gov/gov-affiliated companies or groups). You can see the moderate bias in his replies and comments although they are mostly true and reflect the states(-not geographical) of the countries he mentioned. I could have guessed automatically even without his admitting. Same with the Koreansentry, although he probably isn’t a cracker.

      (btw if you don’t know, the “real” hackers (probably white hats or grey hats) like to identify as “hackers”, and the network breakers (black hats) are crackers. I like using the correct term from the actual group unlike what the media uses. not a cracker or a hacker btw, I just know some stuff about the culture. You can look these terms up to be more informed).

      Sorry about the above sentences if you find them too crazy. (It’s a crazy-type reply) but I can be politically and grammatically correct if you want.

  44. Koreansentry says

    Russia is fading power, they’re no longer top 5 powerful countries on earth. China, India, Brazil, Indonesia and South Korea are top new emerging powerful countries. Soon they will replace many big European economies although France and Germany will retain their top ten status. Military power alone can’t be decisive factor for being powerful country, economic, social, science, medical/health care, education, R&D, technological development, culture etc.. all should be included to rank the powerful country.

    • djcutt1curtis says

      OK! Get real Koeansentry what you saying don’t make sence.I will give u China thats about it. India their smart,but their millitary thinking process is to long and they have no means of quick striking. oh they stand a chance in land combat on their own truff,if they can’t put it in the air or carrie it on water it is no good. hell japan will drop their on shit on them.India is a country that works good with a super power. And BRAZIL hell they are a home base millitary power 2,These countries you name are like stores full of food,but no knowledge of how to eat it.

    • Yayayaya! GO Koreansentry! Korean power! …. NOT

      Well. It’s quite obvious you are a nationalistic, arrogant/prideful Korean. So there is some major bias in your comment… what should we say then? It’s not like the words will even get through to your head. You’ll probably just start trolling yourself. LoL

      btw the “the angry guy” above trolls himself. People like them really need to learn not to get all worked up and sweaty. what a fail and lol.

      • Yaya… And we are sure that you are the one that’s getting overly worked up here as well. Nowhere in his comment says only the Korea is going to be the potential power along with listed other countries. Just by the quality of your reply, Well. It’s quite obvious you are a nationalistic, arrogant/prideful [A FOB from one Asian country among Korea’s arrogrant / racist / warmonger neighbors]. So there is some major bias in your comment as WELL.. Yet you are just another troll that can’t get over yourself due to whichever in the Asia (althogh i’m pretty sure where you are from, lol) lagging behind certain country that you have inferiority complex on.

        By the way this “TOP 10 most powerful blah blah type of topic” really makes it sound… somewhat very immature and Fobby. Heck, truly “some” of the “Asians” really love making anything into a national pride race. Bunch of hypocrites. =)

      • Yaya… And we are sure that you are the one that’s getting overly worked up here as well. Nowhere in his comment says only the Korea is going to be the potential power besides the listed other countries. Just by the quality of your reply, Well. It’s quite obvious you are a nationalistic, arrogant/prideful [A FOB from one Asian country among Korea’s arrogrant / racist / warmonger neighbors]. So there is some major bias in your comment as WELL.. Yet you are just another troll that can’t get over yourself due to whichever in the Asia (althogh i’m pretty sure where you are from, lol) lagging behind certain country that you have inferiority complex on.

        By the way this “TOP 10 most powerful blah blah type of topic” really makes it sound… somewhat very immature and Fobby. Heck, truly “some” of the “Asians” really love making anything into a national pride race. Bunch of hypocrites. =)

  45. LOL at Yalensis and Sinotibetan. Their hatred of the USA seems to defy realistic assumptions about the country’s future.

    1) America may lose relative power but it will continue to be one of the most powerful countries in the world. Maybe a bipolar world with the USA & China on top will develop. A decline in power does not equal a “collapse” as you all seem to gleefully claim.

    2) Diversity. Multiculturalism in America is entrenched in society. I am Hispanic and I feel just as American as I do Panamanian, my home country. Nobody in America has ever leveled any racial taunt at me and I live in Oklahoma, the heart of the Conservative Bible Belt. Blacks in the USA have had a history of submission but those days are long gone. You turn on the radio and all your hear are black artists and singers. You go to the convenience store and there is an Indian to help you. White kids and Asian kids skateboard on my college campus. I think the hatred you two have is rooted in the reality that China and Russia will never be multicultural beacons like America is. Yes, we have Right-wingers who hate immigrants. What else is new? In Panama there are politicians who use Colombian immigrants to appeal to their Neo-Con base. In Russia there are politicians who use Central Asian immigrants to win election. There will always be people who argue that immigrants are bad for society but I tend to disagree. I will agree on one point, however. Islamic migration into the EU is much more complex than Latin American migration into the USA. There are 50 million Hispanics in the USA and there will be more than 100 million by 2050. The difference is that Hispanics are largely Catholic and politically entrenched now. If Mexicans were Muslims, the immigration issue in the USA would be 10x more important. I will agree on that point

    PS-Hispanics are the plurality in the US State of New Mexico and that state was primarily created to accommodate Hispanics in the former Mexican lands gained during the Mexican War. So there is actually a state that was created for Hispanics. Just pointed it out cause one of you argued that the USA would never stand for the creation of a Hispanic state.

    3) Agriculture. America’s Agriculture is a treasure trove for power. America can potentially feed 1.5 billion people using its lands. We have entire states churning out corn and wheat. Mechanized farming has meant that 3 million farmers can feed 305 million Americans and export a wide range of goods. We will never worry about food.

    4) Economy. The American economy may not be optimal in today’s globalized world but the American economy has indisputable advantages. We have a domestic market the envy of the world with consumer-based growth. Growth rates are regularly higher than in Europe and we are much more stable than Russia. The diversity of the US economy wipes out any Chinese advantages due to low wages or manufacturing. Yes, we suffer from an addiction to oil and speculative banking but American oil production is much higher than China’s, not to mention Canada and Mexico have more than enough oil to meet our addiction while we transition to a more sustainable green economy. Our only problem is oil lobbyists and wall street executives who lobby our corrupt Congressmen. The American Economy also suffers from large deficits that can easily be trimmed by cutting back on our wars, raising taxes to their 1990 levels for the rich and eliminating a costly Medicare Part D bill introduced in the early 2000s.

    5) Politics. This is our main weakness. The Republican Party is dominated by warmongers, racists, corporatists, theologians and crooks. The Democratic Party is dominated by spineless leaders who couldn’t convince people to receive free healthcare. Our leaders are our biggest problem but I am hopeful the next generation of leaders will be more grounded in our new globalized reality.

    6) Military. America’s military might is overwhelming. Maybe we are too militarily strong for our own good. We have a navy that is active in every corner of the world, a defense budget approaching $700 billion, and multiple military operations. We have become too hegemonic for our own good in many cases. There are advantages to the American military, however. First, America is impervious to invasion. There is practically no way to invade a country bordered to the north by barren tundra, to the East and West by water and to the South by an ally. Russia faces the EU, internal crises like Chechnya and China. China faces Korea, Taiwan, and Japan off its shores and a rising India to the South. Not to mention both China’s and Russia’s navy’s lack the ability to destroy any of their neighbors. The American military is also geared into innovation unlike China’s and Russia’s. This has meant that the Military-Industrial complex in the USA has created innovation for the general economy later on. The Internet on which you are posting your diatribes against America and the West was developed by the American military.

    All in all, the USA is in a pretty good position. Yes, we have problems; we have weak leaders, high deficits, 3 wars, an addiction to oil, wall street lobbyists, environmental degradation, decaying infrastructure, an obese population and low test scores. We also have a highly efficient agricultural sector, a massive internal market, a strong military, a diverse economy, great demographics, and a tolerant, free society. At the end of the day, I wouldn’t trade the USA for either Russia or China. We may have problems but solving problems has been the American mantra. We are fiercely proud and hard-working and we don’t accept second place. We’ve been counted out before but we always rise up again. The American model will work to the chagrin of you two. Despotism and Statism have a proven history of failure. China and Russia will only prosper when the people are in control, not some strongmen in Beijing and Moscow. I wish nothing but the best for the people of China and Russia who have lived a history of oppression and war and are only now reaching their potential. But America’s collapse isn’t some preordained destiny. Based on 1980s predictions, Japan should be the #1 economy right now. Based on 1960s predictions, the Soviet Union should be the sole power now. Based on 1940s predictions, Germany and Japan should have crushed America. Anti-American predictions are too common. They are also highly pessimistic about a country with so much going for it. 🙂

    • sinotibetan says

      Anthony G,

      Thanks for the comments.
      1.)”Their hatred of the USA”
      I do not “hate” the USA. I have to say I do not like what America has become, rather.
      2.)”America may lose relative power but it will continue to be one of the most powerful countries in the world.”/” does not equal a “collapse” as you all seem to gleefully claim.”
      I am not sure if the USA would ‘collapse’ – I just said it hypothetically. As for ‘gleefully’, no – I am not saying negative stuff because I’d love an American ‘collapse’. More likely, as I’ve commented in other blogs/post – America is on the beginning of a slow decline/decay.
      3.)” Diversity. Multiculturalism in America is entrenched in society”/”I think the hatred you two have is rooted in the reality that China and Russia will never be multicultural beacons like America is.”
      a.)First of all, I come from(since Anatoly has ‘revealed’ my country of origin) Malaysia which is a multicultural country. I am not from China. BTW, China and Russia are BOTH multicultural countries as well.
      Many different ethnicities live in those countries.
      b.) I have lived(and still live in) a ‘multicultural experience’ and I judge it negatively. Not that I want my country to be monocultural though because one cannot change the situation. Instead of being ‘envious’ of diversity/multiculturalism, actually I don’t think it’s an aspect that is straightforwardly ‘positive’ neither do I think it’s a trait that non-multicultural nations should just embrace. As I’ve mentioned, it tends to break nations apart. It’s GOOD that you received no racial taunt in multicultural America. But your lack of negative experience does not mean multiculturalism is not a factor that may break apart nations. I have experienced racist policies affecting my life , so I beg to differ in this multicultural experience. The ethnic strife in the many disparate nations in Africa, former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. show that multiculturalism CAN be a factor of national disintegration/turmoil. As you correctly mentioned of politicians using racial politics – such can happen in multicultural nations.
      c.)”There will always be people who argue that immigrants are bad for society but I tend to disagree.”
      BTW, I am a descendent of Chinese migrants to Malaysia. Ironic that I have a different view from you do. I don’t think that immigrants are bad for society. Mass immigration with no control is. Immigration should be well-regulated. As I’ve said somewhere, preferably migrants that are more likely to ‘integrate’/’assimilate’ with the host nation. However, for a country like mine where our cultures are so different – we of different ethnic groups have no desire to ‘assimilate’ into a unified Malaysian ‘ethnos’. Hence, we have to figure out how to live as a multicultural society. It may be the same for the USA or maybe no. I think that multicultural communities/nations would have to decide to be ‘assimilationists’ or ‘multiculturalists’. Humans are too diverse to agree or decide on these though and perhaps within centuries, assimilation will be the end product – just like how Indo-Aryans and Dravidians merge in India : and even there, the diversity continues and the ‘assimilation’ remains incomplete.
      4.) American agriculture – agree with you.
      I think American economic health is in dire strait and I cannot agree with you on this one. American debt is so astronomical and the political elites do not seem to have a viable strategy(apart from political wranglings) to reduce this debt. A lot of things have happened since you commented in April 2011 and perhaps you may want to revisit this point of yours? The health of the American economy is, together with societal problems and political issues, a negative point.
      6.)” Politics.”
      A major weakness. In which the other two, societal issues and economic issues ultimately ‘hang on’. Ultimately, American politics have degraded(and is degrading still) into populism and impractical idealism. It’s a problem when leaders don’t lead.
      a.)I do not deny that the USA will remain the most powerful country militarily for the foreseeable future. Nevertheless, military strength is an OUTWARD strength of a nation whereas social cohesion, good policies and a strong economy are the INWARD strengths of a nation. Should the latter become ‘weak’, the compensation by a powerful military is only partial. “Enemy states” might take advantage of internal weaknesses rather than confront outwardly should they know their chances of an armed conflict victory is negligible.
      b.)”Not to mention both China’s and Russia’s navy’s lack the ability to destroy any of their neighbors. ”
      This is not true. To ‘destroy’ any of their neighbours is to provoke a nuclear war and that is not to anyone’s interest!
      “China faces Korea, Taiwan, and Japan off its shores and a rising India to the South.”
      S. Korea , Taiwan and Japan are under ‘American protection’. Without this, it is tactically possible for China to overwhelm these states unless the S. Koreans and Japanese develop their own native nuclear arsenal. There’s no interest of an India-China confrontation because both are nuclear weapons wielding states.
      I think Russia is capable of crushing China any time. But again, no one wants a nuclear war.
      c.)”The American military is also geared into innovation unlike China’s and Russia’s. ”
      This is not completely true. Yes, the American military has been more innovative compared to China and Russia but the Chinese are definitely upgrading their military capabilities.
      Agree at the moment, China is a minnow compared to the USA. But being a nuclear weapons wielding state helps in the sense that the USA, in spite of its superior military, would not want to have a nuclear confrontation with China. The US is more interested in internal regime destabilization than direct military confrontation.
      As for Russia, true its innovation of late has fallen short but even there, the emphasis is on upgrading the military: whether it succeeds or not is another thing.
      d.)”The Internet on which you are posting your diatribes against America and the West was developed by the American military.”
      Never denied the innovative spirit of the American military. Anyway this point does not negate any of the points(or ‘diatribes’ as you call them) I’ve made.
      8.) “I wouldn’t trade the USA for either Russia or China.”
      Nobody is asking you to do so.
      9.)”We are fiercely proud and hard-working and we don’t accept second place. We’ve been counted out before but we always rise up again. The American model will work to the chagrin of you two”
      This is the typical American optimism which is a good trait. Good to be optimistic but also need to have a dose of reality. True, despotism has been a failure. However, as to whether the American model will be the one that works….the future shall give us the answer. My prediction is: like statism and despotism, the American model too will fail.


      • You know… your replies are moderately biased anyways, since you are a “Chinese national” who identifies with the Chinese. (are you? and I think you said you were educated in the west? and that you are another one of those crackers working for Chinese government or gov-affiliated groups?). You are very well informed on world matters, but I still see some bias in you replies that does not reflect all views on these subjects (not that they need to -but just a note). But I agree with most of you views and they’re some nice analysis. note: I’m not an American, nor do I wish to be seen as a “western” so don’t view me as one.

        I don’t want an “attack”directed at me or reply that sways this off-topic. I’m merely just pointing out something so you need not reply. and just don’t.

  46. India is about to pass one of the most potent bills in its chequered history – a historic anti-corruption ombudsman that, for the first time, will be actively policing corruption – all the way to the Prime Minister’s office.
    India could not pass the bill for 40 years – the political elites calmly getting away with this. I suspect the upheavals in the Middle East helped – and a massive and growing outcry against Corruption shook the foundations of the Indian Polity!
    Once passed this monsoon session – The Bill is probably going to change modern India forever – as well as its neighbors. India’s position in corruption indexes – as well as the primary driver for its underachieved economy – the horrendous bloated bureaucracy is going to undergo a sea change – the winners of course- will be Indians and a much more powerful and responsive democracy ! The South Asian-China conundrum should be an interesting place to watch over the course of the next decade – for India’s transformation is going to be geometrically accelerated!!

  47. I am currently in the process of writing a thesis on whether America’s power is in decline and I am considering focusing on BRIC’s as the foundation of my work. I feel these four countries economically are rapidly on the rise.

    I just wanted to get some feedback from people who have commented as you all seem very very clued up about the state of global power.


    • You would be on the safe side if you argue that the relative power level of the US to other nations declines.

  48. The US has invested unimaginable wealth into building a global empire which will not easily be unseated by China even when China is able to meet or even surpass the economic might of the US. Some people seem to believe that simply surpassing the US in terms of PPP will cause the US to have less power than China, but this is a very simplistic way of looking at things.

    1. The US has global military bases and powerful alliances (NATO, Japan, India, Australia) vs. China’s weak alliances with Pakistan and N. Korea. North Korea and Pakistan are probably more of a liability for China than an asset. The current conventional matchup vs. China and the USA would result in an overwhelming victory by the US. By 2050, China might be able to stand toe-to-toe with the US, but they would never be able to handle all of the US allies. There is an issue which no one has tackled. The Chinese are literally surrounded on all sides by enemies who watch their every move. Russia, Vietnam, India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan will not tolerate Chinese aggression. Many of these countries have been at war with the Chinese in the last century or have been dominated or bullied by the Chinese throughout history. China might be 1/5th of the world, but when the other 4/5ths of the world is against you, that 1/5th is very small.

    2. Despite having multiple active military campaigns throughout the world, the US is still viewed far more favorably than China according to the PEW Global Attitudes Project. The US provides global charity (African food aid, disaster relief, medical aid) while China has a reputation of being abusive in Africa and provides no assistance at all to any of its neighbors in time of need. The US also exports cultural items such as movies, music, clothing, video games etc.. which are loved throughout the world and have been loved for decades. China will have a lot of work to do in order to improve its global image before being able to challenge the US for dominance. This is unlikely to happen as long as the Chinese remain Communist. As the recent events in the Middle East have proven, the world hungers for freedom. The Chinese do not have freedom and any attempt at a new Chinese Empire will be met with extreme resistance by the free countries of the world. My personal feeling is that as the average Chinese citizen becomes more affluent and worldly, the more the hunger will grow for Democracy. I believe that China will fall apart in the same way that the Soviets fell apart. Ultimately, it will cause the Chinese to become stronger, but it will delay the Chinese from becoming the world’s number one superpower by 100 years.

    • Nice try, but it comes through that you are trying really hard to justify China’s collapse.

      Unfortunately, you should work hard and improve your country rather than engage in needless wishful-nonthinking about China’s imminent self-destruction based on social or political instability.

  49. Lucas mackenzie says

    Hey guys wat about Canada?
    Canadas military is getting bigger and bigger by the decade and is in the top 15 GDP in the world. It may be only one ninth the size of the u.s but it still can influence the world.
    Canada posseses the arctic which will be a major player in the upcoming half century. Since The Canadian military is becoming better at handling threats and is getting a bigger role in NATO, Canada should be in the top 10 most influential countries in the world.

    • Canada’s a swell place with a high standard of living and greater stability than the USA (not to mention all those tar sands). Still, I must admit that the term “Canadian power” strikes me as a bit oxymoronic outside of a hockey rink. I guess I agree with Mr. K’s thesis that future Canadian stature depends on development of the Arctic (reminds me of Lomonosov’s prediction that Russia’s power would grow out of Siberia). Since I have no idea how the Arctic will develop, I don’t want to hazard a prediction.

  50. Hey guys!
    I really appriciate the great article and comments. And now I got a question myself. How is the future looking for Australia? If it will increase in it’s regional power or decrease. If they might get into conflict with Indonesia or not? How their economy might look in the future etc.

    Many thanks if somebody anwsers!

    • With a population of 20 million, Australia will always remain out of the big leagues.

      It’s future is uncertain. It has plentiful mineral reserves, which should buttress its economy at a time of growing resource scarcity. On the other hand, it will be very negatively affected by climate change, and those same resources may draw unwelcome attention from the bigger powers in the region.

  51. I enjoyed the article. And every coment. Thanks to everyone. However, when everyone is talking about the biggest economy and markets they forget who really has the biggest market. Why the biggest market has so much weight? Simply , because whomever control the markets and monetary funds that comes with it. may as well nearly rule the world. And no, is NOT U.S.A. When I was an extremely young student begining university studies of Eonomy ,and many studies that research the old and new worlds I had that as a project. And I was nearly kicked by everyone out ( as in every class im the one that goeas against all, HAHAHA) I explained how will the U.S was the actual most ignorant country on earth. Why? They practically financed the collapse of the Soviet union. The wrong side to it is simple. As they catch up, open markets and so forth, everyone loses a piece of the pie. The biggest market which was at the time, and may still be is in U.K.
    To whom may think that U.S give away is what makes it big its so wrong. It’s what actually creates hate. Why ? Because when the U.S gives is for its own benefit, the press will hide all the real purpose and the un educated fools will get the worst out of it. video games to turn them into couch potatoes, medicines usually for experiments or for the company make promotion and exclusive treatment on marketings.Loans to tap on resources, or money give away so they upgrade police or buy U.S weapons (reason why U.S is the biggest weapons seller) Books to strip them of their culture and force english.
    It all works, untill they grow big and wise enough to understand what happened. Then, hate.
    About who is super powers? China has big economy, no doubts. But they have a copy cat army with no real stealth abilities like some may think. Every weher I go is the same. Stealth abilities. If anyone ever seen and heard what went on in Korea, and see and hear ALL no fan boys talks, you ll learn the truth. The MIG 15 was stealth, thanks to its cross section. The base never saw it in radar and they needed visuals. said by U.S pilots and air controllers. U.S learned all that long after, when a big mouthed ( probably full of vodka) stated a formula to defeat radars and the U.S used it to build the F 117. According to U.S intel.. the only country in the world capable of match in a fight the U.S is Russia. No one else comes close by miles. And note, this is the U.S admiting its own weaknesses.
    I place China and India together . Russia should be second ,because, of number of resources and whats begining to be a real rise in power. Russia was receiving 20 B a yer for research and tech , a joint venture, to prevent russian scientists to fall in other countries hands. The research was for civilian benefits only. Now Russia picked up the bills and began their own projects plus finished what was at hand. Everyone in U.S was happy wth that Washington policy and initiative, knowing what could had taken place.
    About China collapse, they being smart. They are giving freedoms and changing policies.And sont get me going , because many americans actually migrate away from U.S and want nothing ever to do with it. Press hides it or guess what. No funds, breaks and maybe new slapped laws.Or you don’t know what editing of press is for?
    Well thanks for the nice article. I still discuss golbal economy , politics, accounting, sciences ,etc. at a few universities I assited thru out the years.

  52. Examination of the list says

    It seems impossible to believe that Turkey is equally powerful to Canada or a number of other countries not on this list. The Kurdish problem is still not resolved to a very significant degree and Turkey appears to be losing popularity with almost all of its non-Muslim neighbors. Some Arabs may be happy with them, but I would say that Turkey is turning its back on Europe.

    Turkey’s seeming demographic strength is almost exclusively dependent on the Kurdish population as well.

    The democratic nature of the government is fairly shaky. It should not really be promoted as a model for the Arab states.

    Also, I think China and Russia are somewhat overrated on the list. I would agree that Russia is in the top three, but if Germany, Japan, and possibly the U.K. and France really beefed up their military forces they would probably come up stronger. I do tend to agree that many people underestimate Russia, but its situation is not as good as it could be.

    Still, the list seems fairly accurate on several points.

    • Turkey is firmly a top 10 nation in terms of military power…

      I would know since I role-played Turkey’s military, so I know Turkey’s military inside out.

      It’s an overall well-rounded very powerful nation, and I have deep respect for the Turkish nation politically, economically, and especially militarily.

  53. hell with i agree with this, the soviets still has the first place to me!, no one messes with the soviet union din’t you think of what was stored out there from the cold war?, a secret alliance of the soviet union was secretly working the soviet’s has never fallen it was just in peace right now and soon yto be know haven’t you tought of why the russian presedent declaired to drop down communism and to be democratic, because they want there military power hidden so that they would not be known to be scary, think about it when soviet returns and so as communist party of the russian federation, the production level of russia will rank 1, the only reason why you see the americans as no#1 is because they are the one producing video’s and movies where in they are no#1 and russians as a looser and a bad enemy in a video,why was astronauts ones that are more famous, astronauts had never reached outer space before cosmonauts did, russia was the first one to explore outer space going do the moon is easy for them but it’s better to put up a satellite rightr?, you never know what russia has instored for the world, the americans are just showoffs!

  54. The list looks quite logical & more practical in terms of the description they have provided with the strength and weakness of each countries. Though i somehow disagree, For me, America will always be the super power and ultra force for another 50 years ( whether you support or not ) Second choice for me would be India ( because they would quickly emerge and gain high potential economic growth and power within 10 years ), Third perhaps is Russia, Fourth, I would go with China, Fifth would be U.K and then remains other Asian countries with super military force and most importantly Nuclear Nations. Finally, countries like Germany, Spain, Canada, Australia, Mexico, France, these countries are doing exceptionally well in terms of advancement. I believe if the economy in Europe gets well within 4-5 years, then Europeans countries would come with big strength.

  55. Abdullah Hossain says



  56. You overrate France. It has a very strong nationalist movement and the Maghrebins with their high fertility are often seen rather as a liability than an asset. There’s been a war in Algeria and the Algerians in France do often chose to rather point out their differing loyality as seen from the view of the French. However, via the citoyen they have a viable option for integration.
    Their power in Europe on the other hand gets rather overstated and their closed MIC is not actually something better than for example the German or the British system where there’s lots of cooperation with 2-3 other countries in development of systems and afterwards they get sold to even more countries. This more open system lessens the burden of development costs, while the number of political actors is within reasonable limits. France is by now also changing to a stronger European cooperation because they didn’t get as much bang for their buck nor have equal chances to politcally enhace exports. There’s quite an interesting game in Europe where the French want a European Germany in a French dominated Europe and the British until recently didn’t have much clue about what to do with this EU. Germany for example has by now passed its economic problems and greatly profits from the European market and qualified migration (25% of the population are migrants, but most of them are considered ethnic German, so they don’t appear in statistics on foreigners living in Germany).
    This low birth rate in economic centers is nothing new, we had it for hundreds of years in the German cities of the Middle Ages and they thrived through human imports. Germany today within the European Union is not much different and the whole fertility issue is simply overrated. Yes, per capita pensions will drop and pensioneers are a most important part of the electorate, but Cassandra’s economic collapse due to birth rates is nonsense. Europe will face it just like China. One way is going to a country where living is cheap, so there’ll be more exchange between the fringes and the banana and the sunbelt in Europe, but no armageddon.

  57. I agree with the order of the Top 10 powerful countries, but I don’t agree with all the comments written about each country… I am not sure who is the author… particularly about India!!! Only negative points mentioned about India where as Only positive points mentioned about other Top 10 counties, I dont know why you people always compare India with China, you can come to India and check.. we dont even think about China… We have got our own aspirations… Please stop comparing with china. If you dont like India then we cannt help it and we dont bother about it… I know our country India has got lot of nagatives but at the same time every country in this entire world has got lots of issues and they are not perfect…
    Be honest and fare before writing comments about any country in this world. Jai Hind!!!

    • I quite like India, esp. the food and Vedic literature. It’s also relatively peaceful and friendly. Awesome. And some regions, like Kerala, do have reasonable prospects for success.

      There are several reasons I compare India to China. Here’s three of them.
      1) India is commonly coupled with China, in terms of its future prospects, but this is bizarre since even the most advanced Indian states only correlate to the Chinese average.
      2) As developing Asian countries with 1bn+ people, you guys are ultimately in competition for the same limited resources, foreign investment capital, etc. That is unfortunate, but an important fact of life nonetheless.
      3) If being negatively compared with China for still having an illiteracy rate of c. 35% spurs Indians into advocating for more education funding, then that would be just great.

  58. well, talking abt india, yes we have probs of corruptn, illitracy bt we r internally very much stable except sm part of kashmir. The democratic system is becming transparnt day by day. We nt only show our success bt also be v. Much open abt our failures and accept dem. Bt dis cnt be said abt chinese govt. Da china is strgling wid da instability. I accept dat chisene people r capable to make china a superpower as far as arms power is cncernd bt da que is hw long they cn maintain it! da superpower dream of china is totally based on reverse engg. Well every persn is cmparing india and china so want to make out a point. Both dese countries seek tech. Frm either west or frm russia. The indegenious tech. dev. Is near abt same in both counries. So its like both have same quality bt china has a better quantity.

  59. Kurt Scholz says

    India can and does buy Western arms. China wants, but can’t.
    India is a democracy where you can discuss problems. China has problems with discussions.
    China has an undervalued currency and so grows its exports at the expense of all other developing nations, especially India. In a way China makes her workers pay foreign people money to buy their stuff. This leads to a strong economic growth and also means that there’ll be a very strong crisis. Wit India this is less likely.
    Chinese literacy gets totally overrated. Ever tried to learn Chinese? A normal Chinese from a good school has a vocabulary of 3,000 to 5,000 signs. So in China because of the difficult script you have literate people, hardly literate (or semi-literate) and illeterate people. However, reading isn’t very important as long as you know someone who explains things to you.

  60. pakistan is powerful country

    • With lots of aircraft carriers, nuclear powered submarines, one of the top 20 economies of the world and a rich and well-educated population? Having some nukes and an overpaied and oversized military that makes a new coup d’état from time to time doesn’t make you a worldpower.

  61. “The UK is ostensibly similar to France, but has critical weaknesses that now undermine its Great Power status. It has a fiscal hole little better than that of Ireland or Greece; the current government is disinvesting in the future (university education) and the military; suffers from a smaller version of US “imperial overstretch”; is falling into an energetic black hole; and the City of London, which is a giant source of tax revenue, ”

    what nonsense who wrote this a five year old.

    • The reaper says

      I personally agree that the uk is smililar to france, but there has been a serious economic crisis going on. Because of that it has been loosing its military, educational and social powers. The new government wants to even more out of the education and social security to boost its economy. It has copied the USA at every turn and if it falls the uk will fall with it. The uk will no longer have a choice. It takes time to from the us to the eu as main economical ally. Alone it won’t stand a chance and the us will either try to keep it in their system or mzke them pay; the later being most likely. As a result, people are emigrating to more economically stronger countries like Germany or France.

  62. The list was great with great discussions. I am an Indian but I strongly disagree with other Indians. What is good in our system? The only thing which drives India is ambitions of highly rising middle class and super tolerant and elastic religion.

    • TOTALLY AGREE !! However optimistic that those same factors will lead to the change our country is crying out for especially with regards to corruption and an inefficient government sector and political system. However, will take us atleast another 40 to 50 years minimum to fully get our act together. But still very hopeful and quietly optimistic…..

  63. Honest American says

    Please, China, do not bring Nazism 2.0.

    Imagine living in 1911 and having no idea about Hitler, the World Wars, or about all the technology (antibiotics, internet, nukes) which would come to rise. Now picture the same but for ourselves in 2011. We must truly educate ourselves and realize solutions to maximize worldwide peace and prosperity as 1+ billion Chinese, who have been shielded from free discourse and communication, now assume a role in our international community.

    I have so much happiness living in a free society (yes, it is actually quite free compared to other nations where I visit). While there is corporatism and all sorts of ill, there is so much freedom and happiness to balance it. I am free to write anything on the internet, talk about anything, and read anything from others as well. I want the same for my children, and for their children as well. While mass media might be controlled, we now have a free internet to emerge as the new free media, away from corporatism. If I disagree with something, I can print pamphlets and spread my word throughout, without fear of government. I know, because I have done so!

    It is unfortunate that China is authoritarian and censored, because China is so full of wonderful, bright, and nice people. If their internet was free, and if they could hear all points of view, they could develop a clearer and less vengeful path to the future. Instead, being shut from the rest of the world is nurturing a population of honestly good people into a population of dangerous ignorance. I would gladly welcome China as most prosperous and powerful nation if their attitude was different.

    Unfortunately, I can only fear the rise of China rather than celebrate it, because so many Chinese are caught in “revenge against the West” and “power and domination for the sake of power and domination”. Hitler advocated the “rise of Germans” as “masters” because they were taken advantage of! They were also highly disciplined and intelligent. Oh World, can we never learn from history?

  64. Honest American says

    It is interesting, but I would gladly celebrate countries such as Brazil or India suddenly being crowned as “most powerful”. I would visit and perhaps live in those countries, learn their language and culture, and wave their flag along with my home of the USA. It would actually be exciting! Unfortunately, I cannot say the same about Russia or China. It is the attitude of the people which makes the difference.

    • Honest American says

      Also, my opinion is not innate in the cultures of Russia or China. I am a fervent reader of all Russian literature, and my mother speaks it fluently. The Russians are truly an incredible people. The exact same goes for the Chinese. I have many wonderful Chinese-American/Taiwanese friends, and also friends from Hong Kong. I thoroughly revere and respect the incredible culture and wisdom of China. The Chinese are excellent people, and they have great ability for respect and discipline, and they are as a very intelligent people.

      I believe that a multi-ethnic, democratic, and free nation is the best way to go forward. We must work to transition the USA from a European-dominated nation to become a nation where all the cultures of the world can continue to meet for the next century. No nation based on a single culture should rule the world. Instead, all cultures should find common fate in a nation of multi-ethnicity, democracy, intelligence, self-sacrifice, and communication.

      I believe this is possible, because people can forgo grouping based on ethnicity, and move into the future by grouping together based on the higher and more modern ideals of freedom, science, and happiness.

      • Before this ever happesn there’ll be fountains of blood.
        The EU, the AU or the Arabian League are replies against one dominant power were people decide they have something in common to defend against a superpower.
        Likewise China with its Han majority will be flocking together and fighting for their right of personal wealth if their media can tell them the story that foreign powers are working against them. Afterwards their military can go rampage and they have millions and millions of paramilitary policemen to actually garrison a conquered world.
        While I doubt that a clash can be avoided that kills lots of people who could have achieved great things in live, there’s also hope because in order to fight, you need money and money can be best extorted if the people agree most with the way they are governed. So whichever direction this goes, there’s no other way but a gouvernment that deeply satisfies its population and they will be the most satisfied if they’re opinion is important in decision making. Maybe the future won’t be democracy as we know it, but Hitler and his Nazis don’t stand a chance right from the start.

      • Before this ever happesn there’ll be fountains of blood.
        The EU, the AU or the Arabian League are replies against one dominant power were people decide they have something in common to defend against a superpower.
        Likewise China with its Han majority will be flocking together and fighting for their right of personal wealth if their media can tell them the story that foreign powers are working against them. Afterwards their military can go rampage and they have millions and millions of paramilitary policemen to actually garrison a conquered world.
        While I doubt that a clash can be avoided that kills lots of people who could have achieved great things in live, there’s also hope because in order to fight, you need money and money can be best extorted if the people agree most with the way they are governed. So whichever direction this goes, there’s no other way but a gouvernment that deeply satisfies its population and they will be the most satisfied if they’re opinion is important in decision making. Maybe the future won’t be democracy as we know it, but a new Hitler and his Nazis don’t stand a chance right from the start.

        • Honest American says

          “Before this ever happesn there’ll be fountains of blood.” No, we don’t have to assume this. I think that peace can be resolved, because most Chinese are ultimately good people and they simply want good lives for themselves, (hopefully). What worries me is the idea of “power for the sake of our authoritarian power and revenge”, as opposed to “power for the sake of preserving freedom”. While there are many controversies about “freedom” in the US, it is still much much more free than communist China; there is no question about that.

          You say “they will be the most satisfied if their opinion is important in decision making” but that is not necessarily true. You can be satisfied through misinformation and economic stability, regardless of your role in the decision-making process.

          • There’s always hope that people resolve their issues without killing each other, but it’s not normal. But just look at the Second War of Independence or the War of Secession, the US did spill lots of blood before accepting simple things and other people like the Canadians. Same problem in Europe, Woodrow Wilson had some good ideas to keep people from getting on each others throat by voting to which country they wanted to belong. Well, that led straight to WWII and its atrocities because of cheating and the inability to understand democracy instead of a triumph of one’s own will on all other nations. Ever looked at Europe’s long and troubled history of religious wars before the national wars became big killers?

          • sinotibetan says

            Honest American,

            Some interesting points.Since I have said ‘negative’ stuff about America, perhaps I should balance it with some positive American traits which I seldom mention because I tend to highlight what I think are ‘negative aspects’. Your optimism(like Anthony G’s) is a good and admirable trait:-
            “I believe this is possible, because people can forgo grouping based on ethnicity, and move into the future by grouping together based on the higher and more modern ideals of freedom, science, and happiness.”
            A very optimistic and I’d say idealistic thinking.
            I don’t think so I can share that optimism.
            Like ‘love’, is too nebulous a ‘concept’. Yes, we can ‘feel’ freedom and even ‘conceptualize’ it but too often that freedom is uncoupled from responsibility and can be a highly abused word.
            “Science” – we can tap the nuclear force for a peaceful purpose like a nuclear reactor or we can bomb another place to ashes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
            Happiness – again a nebulous ‘concept’ like ‘love’ and ‘freedom’.
            The centuries of human history show that appealing though those ideals sound, the MEANS you espoused are not practical nor realistic to achieve those goals. The means fail because of human nature. Are humans generally ‘good’ or ‘evil’? We are probably a Jeckyll and Hyde admixture of both – some one more dominant than the other. It’s part of humanity – this evil, inasmuch as good is as well. Because of the evil in men, as long as humanity exist : wars, violence, ethnic/religious/ideological strives shall continue. War and peace are like conjoined twins.


  65. Hi brothers,
    What you think about Pakistan army but according to my views Pakistan army is better then other armies,
    Prove: Good Communication, Behavior, Professional, and Best Fighter…. like Pak army fight 5 war’s … 4 against India and 1 against USSR (Russia), Pak win 3 wars against India, and 1 war win against Russia (in Afghanistan). And know Pakistan is fighting against Terrorist and now at this stage Pakistan had achieved successes 80-90 percent. (USA and are supporting to Pakistan against Terrorist).
    In true words USA is good and best friend of Pakistani People and pak army…Thanks USA… these thinks make (Become) Pakistan a powerful cpuntry..
    I think Pakistan is Most power full country against India…
    I solute Pakistan, USA and China…. I am so interested for Pakistan
    Pak army History:
    Pakistan meaning the “The land of pure”.The Invincible 167 Million : 6th largest Nation of the World.” You can never take us down, We’ll fight back till our last breath“. Reminding you this is the nation which has a 7th largest pool of scientists and Engineers in the World. and the country that is ranked 9th in the world where English language is spoken and used as an official language.
    On May 28, 1998, Pakistan became the 7th nuclear power of the world giving a loud and clear message to the enemies that this nation is fully equipped and ready to defend it’s sovereignty. Pakistan has world 7th largest standing arm forces well trained possessing state of the art technology. 7th largest Standing Arm Force in the World . Air force :Air Commodore MM ALAM has a world record of shoting down 5 Indian planes in less than a Minute.Pakistan: K2 the 2nd highest mountain peak in the World.Aisa’s Highest Railway Station Kan Mehtarzai that is located 2240 meters above sea level near Quetta. Pakistan: Asia’s Highest Railway Station “Kan Mehtarzai ” .Pakistan: Lalazar often termed as most beautiful place on earth .Pakistan: Nanga Parbat 9th Highest Peak in the World .World’s highest Polo ground at Shandur, Northern Pakistan. Karakoram Highway : 8th Wonder of the World.Pakistan: Karakoram Highway World’s highest paved international Road World’s Largest Deep Sea Port : GwaderGawader: World’s Largest Deep Sea Port .Khewra Salt Mine: Second Largest Salt Mine in the World Haleji Lake : Asia’s largest Bird Sanctuary.Pakistan: The heavenly Shandur Lake Thar Desert : One amongst the largest deserts in the World.Pakistan: Tharparker The land of oldest Civilization : Indus Valley and Mohenjo-Daro….

    • There’s no proof of a cultural continuation from the Indus culture to modern Pakistan culture, plus large parts of this culture are on Indian territory because it had two rivers, the Indus and the dried up Ghaggar-Hakra.
      Most armies think themselves as best in the world, but not necessarily world’s most powerful. Whatever, you have to pay for an army, it’s equipment and big time to make it operate in war. So the capability of having a great fighting force in times of necessity is bound to the economic potential (however, the degree of pre-war build up of big ships and technology helps a lot). So Pakistan has no economy anywhere near being a world power, it’s in a league with Nigeria, Egypt, Iran, Bangladesh(former eastern half of Pakistan), Thailand, the Philippines and Ukraine. But unlike the Ukraine it didn’t disarm nuclear or only show the capability to develop nukes, it actually has a number of them in store for a warfare that’s at odds with the values of Islam this country is built upon.

    • U blind Paki..cant see anything above from madrasa education….wht made u think tht Pakistan won 3 fact pak has never won even a single war & everyday there is war inside the country,how can u even think about to compare it to India….look at ur falling economy….go get some real data & burn ur all study books …I know wht they teach u in schools

      • Sorry, but he, like most people, believes what he has been taught. The only way to prove him wrong is to make him personally realize that his views conflict with perceived reality. That’s quite difficult and rather unlikely to happen to this person because reality adjusting myths are more convenient.

        • Not really difficult, but of course he doesn’t live in a open/all-pov community, so yea it is difficult for people such as him to understand. Of course age/maturity/experience has relates as well.

    • Hindustani says

      F**k u!! U got screw wit India 3 times..One in 1948, another in 1971 N another one in 1998..i.e in Kargil war!!U said PAKISTAN is a land of pure..Plz stop joking!! Its a land of cunning fox.!! U bastards alsways trying to beat India bt ended wit fucking frm India..

      Yet Bro! Ur R right,I f India is cool then it will take side of the Asians because Asia has a greater economy than Americas.But again this war will be fought in the desert.But Pakistan has got no CAPITAL RESOURCES thus has to depend which makes it a very poor country like its neighbour Punjab, that has started to call themselves Indians now when the immensity of the truth struck them.So just like that,when the Indians were bought into a small island beside NSW by British black birders as slaves of modern times.That island was filled with cannibals and the Indians despite that, civilized the country.When the country was in fullest bloom and economy the 4th strongest in the world,the natives staged a coup because they couldn’t bare the sight of an Indian Government than after that there was done on the Indians,atrocities after atrocities that caused almost almost all the educated Indians and Indian business owners like us to leave.We would’ve stayed if the native wouldn’t have started raping girls in front of their parents and taking away their properties and just giving them 1 hours time.These Indians,few of them my relatives,who were farmers,gave up their land and crops to these knife and club wielding natives.Not just 1,2,3 but 50 or 70 of them would come and take their belongings.All this was done in the name of christianity.
      I haven’t started on my site yet but will have it completed soon,then you’d be able to read the truth about how and the reasons why there was US involvement in the coursing of the first coup.

    • I wouldn’t say Pakistan is the best army in world its not just the army it is the whole military which includes army, navy, air force, coast guards and national guards.
      Pakistan in last 5 wars has won no wars against India or Russia.
      Russia can crush Pakistan if u wanted to.
      I think you read some fake article or u just imaigning things in ur head
      India won the Kargil war in 1999, 1975, 1965.
      And Pakistan literally is not fighting terriosm they ar helping the terriost become more stronger.

    • u idiot mount k2 is in india

  66. says

    Pakistan sucks BIG TIME…period!

  67. Why Pakistan and not Nigeria or Bangladesh as future great powers? Are nukes and a big fat army all the difference?

    • Hindustani says

      @kurt:are u crazy.??Whos ays that pak had great power>!! Bolls they’ve!!Those mother f**kers begging eitehr US or China for their military weapons.!

      • @hindustani
        Your grasp of english is so poor, you misunderstood the statement. Please, don’t use four-letter-words all the time.

        • None..tat four word u deserve for d best.!! One thing,ur way of english sucks..Join to any English speaking course.!!

          • That means your english speaking course sucks. I recommend entering a better one, otherwise you’ll have lost your money.

  68. The reaper says

    I realy like this list, but a few questions. I know that the uk has big probs( from bbc) and germany and stuff, but what importaince are you giving. From where i’m standing rating of uk is= 20% military
    35% economy
    20% influence
    15% happiness
    10% problems
    while Russia seemed more like
    40% military
    15% economy
    20% influence
    15% happiness
    10% problems
    don’t get me wrong, i love your rating and veryfied the facts, i’m just curious.(besides a couple of countries, i feel it perfect)

  69. says

    Russia and China would probably be equal – China scores becuz of its population, Rf becuz of its size and resources…however both lack the military and technical clout of USA…Still!

  70. 緑BlueGruneAzule says

    Yay lots of comments to read! … Now for a slurpy brainfeeze 😀

  71. I would personally rate Japan higher:

    If GDP looks like it’s flagging, it’s because Japan’s workforce has been shrinking so much. Not only that, but the few workers that are left have been working hundreds of hours less each year. Hourly wages in Japan have been rising faster than in any other country in the world, and pound for pound (and especially in terms of square footage) they are worth far more per capita than just about every other nation in the world save some tax havens and resource-rich small nations.

    They are also highly efficient when it comes to churning out patents, especially in critical fields like PV, fuel cells, robotics and perhaps nano and biotech (Shinya Yamanaka is, after all, the father of the pluripotent stemcell).

    Japan’s technological advancement and financial position are greatly understated by neoliberal corporate mouthpieces; they only have to recognize their potential and act on it. If they do so, they will naturally rise alongside China as the regional market matures.

  72. Excuse me, any other developed* country in the world – not sure when expressed in absolute terms.

  73. says

    I presume the dollar’s strength/weakness vis a vis other currencies determines ones superpower status!

  74. I think India should b no 1 in ur list cause, a large number of doctor n engineer, a great army, biggest democracy, outstanding growing rate, shining industries, incredible culture, magnificent youth club, lovly people n etc. etc. These All point indicates that India is no. 1 country in world.,

  75. AK,

    I have read several articles and you always seem to place emphasis on just how technologically advanced Japan is, as if its the holy grail of technologically output. Frankly, I can’t think of many things (in fact, of anything major) technologically that Japan has (or makes) that the West, especially Europe, doesn’t have or needs, or anything that’s not in their reach via domestic production.

    • Much of Apple’s IPods, IPhones, IPad advanced technologies are derived from Japanese technology patents…

      • Ricky,

        If that’s true, I can image that those items you listed are sourced much more from U.S. patents. As a matter fact, I find what you wrote hard to believe. What are these Japanese patents that you speak of? Needless to say, my original question wasn’t answered.

        • Japan and Korea are investing/have invested very much in technology, which is good. Japan has been developing the robots for some time now, and the US is probably around the same level (I think).

          However, the reason people use Japan as an example of technological advances is because Japan majorly invests in technology while the US as a whole does not really focus on technological aspects. (Although the US is frequently cited as an example of technology output because it is technological advanced). The US society takes technology for granted and does not even understand how to use it. Most of the US is religious and do not really desire technological advances such as robots. They mainly focus on politics, religion, society, race, class, gender issues, etc.

          The US invests a lot in the military, and while the military is making technological innovations, it is pretty much separate from mainstream US society. The technological society of the US is also separate from main US society because most people in the US don’t really have any desire to be “techy” and view that as for the “smart people” or “nerds”.

          Note: This is from the view of a student, so it may not accurately reflect the US as a whole, but addresses most or part of it. Also I haven’t really come up with a definite “causation” response.

        • LCD tech is East Asian. Flash memory is mostly too. And their codec is Japanese.

          • ^Ok yup.

            Most technology things are created/manufactured/processed/from Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China etc. (I think.)

            Maybe not the item itself, such as the iPhone, which was invented in US but made in China/Asia, but the parts that make up the item for sure.

            Many (other) inventions/creations are from Japan, such as “invisibility cloak”, robots, etc. There are many more that I forget or haven’t mentioned.

            • Invented? Iphone was the combination of a multitouch screen to a featurephone. Apple wasn’t even first with that (LG was except theirs was a smartphone).

              • Fine you want me to use the technical/politically correct term?

                The iPhone was invented because it is still a unique product even though there have been many smartphones made before it was made).

                However, the iPhone is mostly an “optimized invention” since we all know that Steve Jobs excelled at optimizing and turning old ideas into better products.

                I would have thought that you would know the differences and obvious facts….charly. Did I really need to say it out when the meaning is already implied?

  76. .............. says

    Th correct 2nd strongest is russia. The usa and russia Are so powerful that we can Start a nuclear winter.
    China Can’t do that

    • Russia is overrated because of historic great power legacy status and an overemphasis on nuclear weapons capability.

      We are assuming responsible world powers ranking, not rogue world powers ranking. In that case, Russia would rank number one based on destructive capability alone.

  77. A nuclear war never happened because it’s a stupid thing and overkill doesn’t make things more dead. China and other small nuclear powers have enough firepower to create havoc that any nuclear attack means unacceptable loses at home. Wake up, this is the second nuclear age, not the first. In the second nuclear age nukes are a prestige object and a leverage to fight anyone conventional, but not lose too much.

  78. Hindustani says

    Juz dumb..real dumb..One who created this got this ..!…F**k ur ass man!! India stood 8th.??Wts wrong wit ur f**king brain!???Dont compare India with fake china!! Those douche bag’s never let their bad or negative point of their country.!! Those are developing country.!! Nt developed..And one who create this list hav atleast sence tat on worlds doctors & engineers ratio, india stood first by acquiring 30%.!! US diplomacy only admits tat India hav much better education thn their!!!Even Obama also scares of Indian engineers standards compared their arsehole enginners.!! India provide cheaper & effective treatment for many diseases wic u end up spending millions got treate in europe.!!India literacy is almost 80%+..Much higher thn china!! check for wiki!! Nw this is real shit u say indian food situation is worse!! India is an agricultured based country..Dont create this shit list based on chini links>!! Hv sence u doucheabag(create ) this list.!!

    • I think this article is far, far too harsh on India, nonetheless I feel I should post it to restore balance to the Force. 😉

      (h/t Scowspi)

      • LOL he needs to get a clue.

        • These type of comments from Indians And Pakistani are due to: Pakistan:because They are taught so.
          Education system in Pakistan . Pakistani comments will be mostly based on Big Army, Nukes, war with India (Hindus), they defeated Russia, Islam ruled over large land (world !) for 1000 years. 1 Muslim is as powerful as 5 Hindus. Almighty Allah is on their side. Anything done by Muslim, they feel that it was done by them. ! (ex Arabic victory over Spain, Afghani Rule over India, Palestine response to Israel, Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan, Soviet breakup etc) . Pakistan is advanced and made all missiles while India imported from Russia and Israel. In India everywhere Muslims are getting killed.

          India: because They are informed so.
          Media, so called News channels, spreading sensation, news/info in India…. Their comments are based on partially correct and highly exaggerated information like :
          Large number of Doctors, Engineers in USA are Indian, when world economy was bad- India survived, India is uprising, Education system in India is best, Obama fears of Indian kids (based on one tiny statement in kids school by Obama !!! ) . America need to sell products in India due to high middle class (means America became poor and need help from India !!! ), India made missiles while Pakistan imported the same from china and Korea ……. etc etc etc

  79. this is bakwas.i will tell u the correct ranking.
    9.North Korea

    • allo, are you sleeping man?!

      Russia in 1 place Israel will not never be superpower.
      UK will not go up she was powerful in 19-20 centuries but now someone replaced>
      America should pay depts rather than to produce super aircrafts!!!

      thats all for now!!!

  80. Philip Owen says

    CNP measures power to do what?

    If the main criterion is the ability to expand territorially, then the post WW2 list goes something like this:

    The EU (orders of magnitude ahead of anyone else at acquiring economically useful assets).
    India (Princely states, non British trading settlements, Sikkim, Goa – more than half the present territory of India was outside British rule. Some borders are still unresolved).
    Germany (East Germany)
    China (Tibet, Hongkong and Macao)
    Vietnam (South)
    Indonesia (seizures of Irian Jaya and East Timor)
    Morocco (Spanish Sahara – geologically made of pterodactyl guano)
    Senegambia (peaceful unification)
    Russia (Transdenistra, South Ossetia and Abkhazia)

    Temporary ownership of small disputed islands in the seas of South East Asia is ignored.

    So, measured by the ability to expand its territory, the EU is overwhelmingly the greatest power with India being the only serious challenger. The EU still has large potential to expand East. EU entrants are not conquered by force. They volunteer and modify their systems in order to qualify for membership! China will probably try to woo Taiwan in this manner. India has the conventional force to re-incorporate Pakistan or at least redefine the borders of Jammu and Kashmir but the deterrence effect of nuclear war may prevent this.

    Perhaps power is the ability to deliver wealth to your people. There are two ways to do this. One is to increase the productivity of the workforce while maintaining employment; the other is to extract rent from possessing a natural resource. I don’t have the latest figures and I am not going to research it but I think that Singapore and the Scandinavians as a group (excluding Norway) are top on productivity with the Japanese, Germans and US not far behind. Turkey like China and India is treading the productivity growth path.

    The British, French and Dutch suffer from having significant natural resources (oil, food, gas) which push up the exchange rates or otherwise hold back production. (Canada manages to avoid the Dutch disease. Australia doesn’t avoid it). The extraction of rent is only really possible for monopolies. Actually commodities must be sold in a free market so possession of commodities is immaterial for Great Power status. Saudi Arabia, as noted has limited options. Despite huge defence spending, it could do nothing effective against Iraq. It is not even loved on its doorstep in Bahrain. Rent extraction in an undemocratic system leads to inequality and corruption. Some resource economies do better than others. In Russia, the money is being spent, albeit sometimes corruptly, on social and infrastructure products that will also improve productivity and give access to wealth for those outside the government and retail distribution sectors. Brazil is developing a diversity of resource industries.

    Even large, diverse economies can be broken by resources. The oil rich 1980’s UK had a choice between government driven infrastructure renewal or market driven growth in its already strong financial and retail sectors. Finance won. For 30 years, manufacturing comparable to Germany’s was run down in favour of added value from banking. It’s still one of the world’s major manufacturers by output and skills particularly in complex systems requiring many disciplines but it is not capable of comparison with Germany now by output. However, in the process the UK has become the undisputed leader in net export of services of all kinds; an industry which does not employ people with an anti-authority cultural outlook. China will take the manufacturing growth but services will grow faster across the world and the UK is lead net exporter. India is of course the top third world country at service export but is still a net importer. Hong Kong and Singapore are too small to matter. In Russia, another diverse economy, once possessing an important manufacturing economy, resources have driven huge growth in the retail sector but they have seen the collapse of manufacturing, particularly of complex systems (directly the opposite of the UK case where the complicated, high added value stuff survived). The Russian government has chosen to spend the wealth to improve the life of the Russian people and the strength of the Russian state. So far, however, the fear of loss through corruption and uncontrollable levels of imports has held back spending on the various National Projects ranging from new hospitals to new port facilities. 80% by value of pharmaceuticals are imported. 60% by value of supermarket food is imported. Civil aircraft production has ceased.

    Resources are a curse not a blessing for those who wish for evenly spread, high per capita wealth. Resource wealth is not a substitute for productivity in comparing power to deliver the good life.

    So, it is not clear what the CNP is measuring that is either good for power hungry territorial expansionists of which India, under the allegedly non violent, peace loving Congress party, was arguably the post WW2 leader or creators of wealth for the general population (Japan being the biggest improver in this area).

    So let’s accept Great Power status (ability to engage successfully in world politics) as the thing that CNP is measuring. Russia is hugely overrated in AK’s list. Any list that puts Russia above the UK is fantasy. The Russian invasion route to Georgia was lined with broken down tanks. Corrupt generals steal 40% of the military budget according to last year’s assessment. As above, 60% of supermarket food is imported. 80% of pharmaceuticals are imported. All civilian aeroplanes are imported. The telecoms system does not have the capacity to support intercity data transfer between large scale data centres (it is easier/cheaper to buy a satellite link and use a data centre in London). Russian businessmen list their firms on the London Stock Exchange, not in Moscow. The big finance companies, law firms and accounting firms in Moscow report to managers in London. Military production is at prototype levels. Nuclear bombs (if they still work) may compensate for some of this but not that much. The space programme, like the operation of the Moscow metro remains magnificent. The population is educated but compared to their potential their productivity is very low because of extremely poor infrastructure. Internal air fares are the world’s highest. There are no intercity motorways. Trains are slow and almost as expensive as planes. Russia is where it always was before WW2. It is a European power on a rank with Britain, France and Germany but no more because of its economic backwardness. It has greater potential than any other Northern Eurasian power (placing China in Southern Eurasia) but like Latin America or Egypt for the last 300 years, its track record of delivering the potential has been modest. I think the 2006 Chinese list is more realistic than AK’s. The US is way ahead at 90 points. The next 5 countries from the UK in 2nd place with 65 points to China in 6th place with 59 points are only 6 points apart in the whole range. Personally, I think that even that ranking is generous to Russia, China and Germany as Great Powers (debatable because of Germany’s strength inside the EU and weakness outside it). As a Great Power, South Africa has more going for it than Brazil. Argentina could seriously challenge Brazil in a decade now it has abandoned Peronism.

    The German future is excellent. Germany is about to acquire fiscal control of the EU. The EU will continue to expand but with greater internal cohesion than before because of German financial prudence, optimised for high productivity manufacturing. The Greatest Power of the later 21st Century will be the EU and at its core will be Germany. The US will undertake mercenary duties in order to keep favourable access to EU markets. The US and Japan are not important suppliers of goods or anything else to Russia. Russian trade with advanced countries is overwhelmingly with the EU. Harmonization is already inevitable. The only debate is about Russia’s ability to influence it. Russia will join the EU, although indirectly, to save nationalist face (thus losing the power to vote on EU directives and failing to have any Russian civil servants inside the bureaucracy). Russia needs to be serious about the CIS (Ukraine, Belarus, Khazhakstan) to have any negotiating power. This is unlikely. Russia is attempting power projection in the Ukraine and Belarus. This is not the way to gain economic cooperation. Russia should be building up its services exports to these countries not haggling over unsustainably high resource prices. It is a rearguard action but even here Russia is failing badly. The EU will not militarize in important ways but will not surpress the military capacity of its members. As the British ease back, the Dutch (now right wing and aggressive, post Srebinica) will add more naval capacity. Unless Russia joins directly, China is a long way from the EU borders. Iran, Iraq, Syria and the Mahgreb are the ultimate EU border states outside Northern Eurasia. The EU takes volunteers not captives. The EU model doesn’t threaten any of them except with democracy and prosperity. (Libya is a war to stop immigration not a war to gain oil). By 2020, the EU will become more involved in the Palestinian question and not generally on the Israeli side.

    Let the debate continue.

    I should really do some work.

    • Well, here’s another criterion: willingness and ability to meddle in the affairs of other countries. By that criterion, the following countries rank high – USA, Russia, UK, France, Israel, Saudi Arabia, China, Turkey, and Poland. Admittedly, my view is somewhat skewed by where I sit; I might be missing some key facts. I agree that “the German future is excellent,” and maybe one reason for it is that the Germans are concentrating on economics and good management rather than the power games of the above-listed countries.

    • Chris Doss says

      “Russia (Transdenistra, South Ossetia and Abkhazia)”

      Even assuming that these represent territorial power grabs, they would be recovery of lost territory.

    • Tibet was part of the Empire of the Great Qing of China… hardly can be considered an ‘expansion’ – more like restoration of administration through pacification of armed rebel forces.

      • ^Thats what ‘all’ Chinese/’pro-Chinese-gov’ people think. And of course you would use this example to justify “restoration”. Why not Ming china where it was ruled by the Han majority instead of the Manchu Qing? Of course use Qing because that’s the most expanse of land that can be “retaken”.

        Yea right. Why go for “restoration” when you (I’m assuming you’re Han) don’t even belong there? “Just get out”. (Note there are many replies that can be made comparing this to others, but that is not the topic of discussion).

  81. Philip Owen says

    Recovery of lost territory has been the excsue for a large proportion of historical invasions. Tibet may have had many cultural links with China and overlapping territorial claims but it was not part of a unified state. Even more so for India. There was not unified pre British state to be reclaimed. The Raj was the hollowed out Mogul Empire. Mostly unified versions of India were about as relevant as the Roman Empire. I admit that I am being provocative with the Russian examples. If they really count then why not Israel, Taiwan, South Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan as US territorial gains or the Eurozone as a German gain. 🙂 Really I put them in to show how petty and innocent they were compared to Indian or Indonesian land grabs.

    • Chris Doss says

      Recovering territory was not the stated reason for the Georgia War, so that it has been used as an excuse in other instances has no bearing on the issue, because it was not used by Russia as one.

      This is beside the facts that 1) there is no, zip, zero, nullus evidence at all that the GW had anything to do with aquiring territory, and 2) even if it did, it would, in fact, be recovering lost territory, regardless of whether or not Country X used this as a spurious justification in Instance Y.

  82. Hello, I am Chinese…

    China is overrated – the rankings reflect potential more than anything else.

    Russia, UK, France are overrated – probably because of historic great power legacy status and overemphasis on nuclear weapons capability.

    Japan is underrated – probably because of historic protectorate status stemming from WW2, but her economy is larger than UK, France, AND Germany combined says something.

    Personally, I would put China along with Russia, UK, France, Germany, and Japan in the same tier… with US in one tier on top…heck, I might even downgrade Russia because her economy isn’t on the same level as the other nations.


  84. This seems good article and have good (few bad ) comments. Many good points were taken into account. I would like to congratulate and thank to author and commentators.

    For India this is good that it is at lower rank because of illeteracy and corruption !!! I am happy about it … WHY ? because these things can be eliminated in future, so it will have more positve-to-negative balance !

    One brother said, “Pakistan is powerful” … If he is talking about “Military” then, yes They are. But if we take stability and economy in account, we have to differ.

    I am Indian, yet I am saying they are among Top 10 military powers. Their intelligence agency ISI is capable one.

    Please dont get driven by emotions and patriotic speeches by leaders. If they (leaders) say that we (Pakistan) have nuclear bomb and can bomb out Mumbai, Delhi…. May be this can happen. I DO NOT DENY IT , It can harm Indian economy by a huge. ya, that is possible.
    But think beyond this. Do you think that there wont be any reply to this aggression ?

    Pakistan had potential to be better economy than they are. But they (their leaders) had not chosen so.

    What their leaders chose ? ” Ghaas ki roti khayenge, Bomb Jaroor Banayenge “, We will eat grass bread, but we will certainly make Bomb (nuclear) . …… and present situation is quite close to that one…. They achived it.
    But my dear Brothers and Sisters, you achieved this at the cost of economy and stability.

    You can TRY hard to relate yourself with Muslim world. But this is fact, You cant relate yourself with Iran, Afghanistan , UAE or Saudi Arab. You are a part of Indus vally civilization, and you are cluturally and linguistically closer to India, than anyone else ! If you speak in your lanaguage (Punjabi, Sindhi, Urdu ) no one will understand ! But an Indian will !
    Dont get driven by anti-India emotions

    • I agree to what you said…I am patriotic to my country but I say we are weak inside, it is because of our own doings and some external influences. But that is politics i am not in to that. I say we have the potential to be good, to do good and show the world we are a nation of respectable citizens. But our leaders have left us weak and so engrossed in the daily matters of life that we have forgotten that world is out there and moving ahead with time.

      Yup we paid heavily for the acquirement of the bomb, i say it is useless but also necessary as today’s situation is just a leverage item. Keeping this country safe, i think(but u guys know better).

      With mineral resources, land area, sea at our disposal we have all the right arsenals to be a good nation. We are just under 100 years old, we have a long way to go, things to correct, increase education and its quality and the list goes on. So given the time we can prove our worth. Keeping in mind the so called war going on is over. Pakistan suffers greatly, 35000+ souls lost because of that, so lot of things keeping us busy.

      While countries of the world talk of prosperity, economic growth, military and civilian advancements we on the other hands are preoccupied with the issues mention above.

      I say Indians can be our allies as well, provided the hate hist-aria is removed on both sides of the border. we understand each other, media is so common between us but yet the so called hatred fed in to our minds have led to this situation.

      I say live in peace and let others live in peace.




  85. the us is probably still first i agree

  86. Popular topic .

    My comments:

    Although a shill, “sinotibetan” does have viewpoints that exist to varying degrees in mainland China.
    His commentary read amazingly similar to the talking points of many party members. The government has plenty of “50 cent” internet minions that use various subterfuges (example “sinotibetan” for misdirecting towards a tibetan sympathizer) in attempt to spread party talking points while hiding the fact that they are the cogs of the same government apparatus; and mind you, this apparatus is not trusted, and even hated, by the common people of the people’s republic. Popular blogs are spammed and monitored by these “50 cent” cretins as a form of information control they desire. Spamming this political ideology, sinotibetan, at the expense of truth, has resulted in the common people not even trusting the authenticity of government museum exhibits nor textbooks they read for university courses. One of the most familiar sayings by Han Chinese: “love my country, hate the government”.

    And for the hilarious quote from sinotibetan:
    “All they care is that they retain the power and clout to arrogantly tell the rest how we should live, behave, etc.”

    That quote is the crux of Chinese men still fossilized in, and shackled by, Confucian culture (i.e. sinotibetan). His comment has nothing to do with principles, values, moral, nor is it philosophical equilibrating nor reasoned induction/deduction. It is merely a sequence in the 2000 years ongoing emotional tirade from Confucian man not yet on the top of the pyramid — whining and crying in hopes of moving the top people down and himself up the hierarchy in hopes of capturing a higher position where he does not have to bow down, and finally be at the command central with people bowing and obeying his orders. And sinotibetan, that’s why the government ignores complaints lodged by the Chinese citizenry. Because the government knows the people are just trying to trade their position of being oppressed for the seat of the oppressor. Just as the previously subjugated Chinese artist acquiring a teaching positions revels in telling students what they should and should not draw, what is beautiful and what is not… so to does the Confucian man after being promoted from “civilian” to “official” in the field of politics and international diplomacy.

    Do not worry sinotibetan, I have the cure for you, as it has worked for Confucian men for thousands of years. The cure is to find a submissive woman and have a child. Then your natural desire to dominate and control will be satisfied to some extent. And when your child discovers global television and begins discussing his miserable treatment compared to other cultures, you can again pat yourself on the back and feel good knowing your son is just does not yet understand, and everything will become clear when he is older and age qualifies him to finally oppress his own.

    Anyways, I expect more of the same from you: to overreact (by any civilized standard) to anything perceived as criticism, and then fashioning “we Chinese people” responses based on your own unconscious, ignorant, arrogant, and fallacious assumption that the people of China are yourself multiplied by 1.4 billion.

    Talk about “power” will be more precise and accurate if this is broken down into sub categories.
    A) China is considered powerful because they have the ability to RESTRICT trade and RESTRICT access to markets that were once much more open to the world and free under Deng Xiao Ping.
    B) The Chinese government has made huge strides in military technology giving them the ability to physically harm and destroy people, AND they flaunt this regularly on border disputes with their neighbors to degrees equivalent to Cold War mentality minus science or reason.

    So for the power… the ability to move. There are carrot motivators and stick motivators. Creative forces and destructive forces. Governments that use destruction and sticks to move people, though powerful, do not have qualities worth admiring and honoring, nor have values that will bring greater prosperity to humanity.

    The USA is a top bully at the moment, and some commentary from AK on more specific “Top 10” lists, would be very insightful and good discussion topics such as
    “Top 10 current governments you would choose as a global police”
    “Top 10 current governments you would never want as global police”
    “Top 10 Most Trustworthy Governments In 2011”
    “Top 10 Least Trustworthy Governments In 2011”
    “Top 10 Most Improved Governments In 2011”
    “Top 10 Most Disastrous Governments In 2011”

    This provides the basis for the much loved counter factual hypothesis writing AK posts on the site. Such as reasons for “Why country/government X is not in the top ten” and also for constructive posts such as “What country/government X must do to be included in the top ten”.

    • “sinotibetan” is a Malaysian-Chinese, and his IP confirms he is from Malaysia. The idea that he’s a 50 cent soldier is quite ludicrous, though even if he was – what relevance does that have to the validity of his arguments? Throwing such accusations round is a lame and fallacious debating style.

      • sinotibetan says

        Thanks Anatoly. Anyway, I’ve replied Joe’s post.


      • AK,
        Sinotibetan is racist and ignorant, I find it unusual that you would give someone like that even the time of day.

        Validity of an argument?? Your sentence presupposes that he actually has an argument, and that the argument is valid!!! Hilarious

        I’m not sure about you, but does your idiot alarm sound off when you read sentences that start with: “We Chinese people”? I can only respond to such idiotic and hasty generalizations (a fallacy) with complete ridicule.

        ” “Increasing ethnic diversity within a nation will worsen the nation.” Kind of like a Chinese in Malaysia? or Russians living in California? Again, completely unsubstantiated. These sentiments are common among the racist groups that plague Europe and America — KKK, neo-nazis, etc… Using his logic, the skinheads in Moscow stabbing non-slavic looking people are doing the nation a service by preventing the worsening of Russia, yeah? Maybe they should get medals of honor.

        So let’s see how his claim:
        “”Increasing ethnic diversity within a nation will worsen the nation.”
        holds up with other feelings he has posted on this forum.

        “”Those wars, political upheavels, etc. led to migration of the smartest of Europe and the Jews to America.” “These depleted the intellectual power of Europe and America gained.”

        So here he says that all of the smart Europeans (of various ethnicity, not all anglo saxon) and Jews (not anglo saxon)…. an ethnic diversity increase… bettered America. Laugh

        He is typing his feelings, so anything goes.

        As for your love for debate AK, I will give you a tip.
        Ideas in the west such as “debate” “thinking” “reasoning” “logic” “deduction” “induction” were indoctrinated by Aristotle and have been glorified in the west for more than 2000 years. These concepts simply did not develop in China, and ass of 2011, a great rule of thumb is that these ideas are completely foreign and incomprehensible to 99.9% of the Han Chinese. Furthermore, the 0.1% is extremely likely to migrate abroad.

        Go listen to debates Han students have at mainland, Taiwanese, or Hong Kong universities and you will know exactly what I am talking about. Better yet, go read the “arguments” put forth by criminal defense attorneys in Chinese courts — I predict for you the same sense of confusion, bewilderment, and maybe even disgust at the fact that rational or scientific thinking is absent.

        5) If he is not a government worker, then my guess was wrong. The fact that he is both ignorant and racist still remains.

        • below_freezing says

          The comment about the 99.9% of Chinese not knowing “free thought” and “debate” is itself generalizing and racist. You seem to show the typical behavior of “a Confucian man not yet on the top of the pyramid — whining and crying in hopes of moving the top people down and himself up the hierarchy in hopes of capturing a higher position where he does not have to bow down, and finally be at the command central with people bowing and obeying his orders.”

          I think it would be best for to focus on your own advise and learn multicultural acceptance and appreciation for diversity, rather than continue to behave as the “Confucian man”.

      • Um I think he did say he was a party supporter… Are you, sinotibetan?

  87. sinotibetan says

    @ Joe Chen:

    A few points for your diatribe against my comments:-

    1.) I am NOT a Chinese from Mainland China. Yes, I am Han Chinese but not from China. So your allegation that I am some minion from the Communist Party of China is simply laughable.

    2.)”Confucian man” – Another ridiculous inference. Although there are some fine things in Confucianism, I do not advocate nor believe in Confucianism.

    3.)As for me using the ‘nick’ sinotibetan – that’s because Chinese and Tibetan languages come from the same family of language – i.e. Sino-Tibetan group of languages. I’ve not said much about Tibet but actually I don’t agree with Han presence and ruling over Tibet. So, I am a Communist Party of China ‘minion’? I remember saying somewhere before that what should the Han people be doing ruling over Tibetans?(I.e. they shouldn’t be doing so). However, having said that – it is unlikely that the Chinese Government will loosen their stranglehold on Tibet – whether we like it or not.

    4.)I am amused how you could connect this ‘quote’ with me being the uber-Confucian Man:-
    “I doubt the politicians in the West really, in their heart, care a hoot about the climate. All they care is that they retain the power and clout to arrogantly tell the rest how we should live, behave, etc.”
    Wrench it out of context and then somehow, I am a ‘Confucian Man’?

    5.) In connection to point # 4, my view is generally ALL politicians(from whatever country) talk about morality, principles etc. for their own political gains. I don’t ‘moralize’ politics inasmuch as most politicians do – and ‘moralizing’ politics is something Confucianists do, by the way. What I was trying to point out in my comments is this: politicians are the same everywhere. One cannot view them as bearers of principles or morality. Rather, they might use ‘principles’ and ‘morality’ to bend to their own selfish ambitions. I NEVER claimed the CPC politicians are saints or great moral-bearers. At the same time, I also do not believe that Western politicians ‘care’ about China in a positive way. Perhaps it’s true that another revolution might change the Government to a better one. Yes or no, no one knows. However, it would be naive to think that Western support for dissidents in China is TRULY for morals, justice and altruism. The aim is regime stabilization of a rival power. So, if truly the majority of Chinese hate the present Government in China – then Western support or no, the regime is doomed to be destroyed sometime soon in future due to massive revolts. Whether it will be a brighter or gloomier picture for China after that is uncertain.


  88. sinotibetan says

    sorry…an amendment…

    “The aim is regime destabilization of a rival power.”


  89. Nathaniel Philip Victor James Rothschild says

    Sounds interesting.

  90. HARSH

    I think every country is good in its place but there is something special in the democratic countries
    Country like china has very vast range of problems which is not focused in their government controlled media.
    So till there is no perfect sign of Chinese power we can not say that china is going to defeat U.S in coming

  91. HARSH

    I think every country is good in its place but there is something special in the democratic nation
    Country like china has very vast range of problems which is not focused in their government controlled media.
    Every external activities are banned there
    So till there is no perfect sign of Chinese power we can not say that china is going to defeat U.S in coming

  92. HARSH

    I think every country is good in its place but there is something special in the democratic nations
    Country like china has very vast range of problems which is not focused in their government controlled media.
    Every external activities are banned there
    So till there is no perfect sign of Chinese power we can not say that china is going to defeat U.S in coming

  93. sinotibetan says


    Thanks for your comments.
    1.)”if you look up stories of the few people that left Islam you will notice one thing in common , most have a trauma from previous abuse related to their culture more than religion etc.”
    I agree that this is quite true for some who left Islam. So it’s quite true that for some of these their ‘anti-Islam’ diatribes would be less intellectual/spiritual and more emotional/personal. However, I don’t think all left solely due to abuses which are cultural. Some also left because of an intellectual/religious crisis in their view of their former beliefs.
    2.)”there are tons of christian scholars with masters and Phds in science ,history, and comparison religions under their belts ,who studied Islam to defeat it ,guess what happened ? ”
    I am sure there are many. Some even ’embraced’ atheism. And as you’ve mentioned about those who left Islam due to misconceptions on a cultural context, this holds true also for some who ‘left Christendom’. I’ve used the word ‘Christiandom’ because there are so many sects that cold themselves ‘Christians’ and their traditions/beliefs may actually diverge significantly from the Bible itself. Such(i.e. leaving one’s former religion/ideology) does not ‘prove’ the validity of any truth-claim, though. I myself have read about Islam and other religions but have a different opinion from those that you mentioned. Anyhow, I do not consider Roman Catholicism as true Christianity.
    3.)”hirsi Ali the somali woman” /”so in a not politically correct way ,she is a liar ,I wouldn’t ask for her witness about Islam ,I would go with the priests.”
    Actually I don’t know all that much about her save those few stuff I mentioned. I agree that she changed her statements quite a few times(based on that wikipedia entry)- if we both can accept wikipedia to be factual(I think, it’s pretty reliable most times), then I agree with you that she was lying. In fact, I don’t agree with most of her beliefs. However, I did not bring her up to ‘prove’ that her negative views of Islam are correct. I brought her up because she called Islam ‘similar to Nazism’ and no one can use that as an argument to ‘prove’ the one who utter such statement is a “Jew”.

    Anyway, I would like to say that although I have not changed my (mostly negative) views regarding Islam, I’d also wish to express that I do not have any ill-will/ill-feelings towards Muslims. Also, I respect your honesty- even where we finally disagree. Take care!


  94. sinotibetan says

    To Joe Chen,

    I shall post your comments next to your accusations against me and I leave it to others who read this blog to decide on who’s ‘racist and ignorant’ and ’emotional’ here. Moreover, NONE of your accusations against me are substantiated. Let YOUR own standards judge YOU.

    1.)Joe Chen said: “Sinotibetan is racist and ignorant”/ “We Chinese people”? I can only respond to such idiotic and hasty generalizations (a fallacy) with complete ridicule.”/”The fact that he is both ignorant and racist still remains.”
    Then Joe Chen GENERALIZES and said: “These concepts simply did not develop in China, and ass of 2011, a great rule of thumb is that these ideas are completely foreign and incomprehensible to 99.9% of the Han Chinese. Furthermore, the 0.1% is extremely likely to migrate abroad. etc.
    Go listen to debates Han students have at mainland, Taiwanese, or Hong Kong universities and you will know exactly what I am talking about. Better yet, go read the “arguments” put forth by criminal defense attorneys in Chinese courts — I predict for you the same sense of confusion, bewilderment, and maybe even disgust at the fact that rational or scientific thinking is absent.”

    A question for Joe Chen, where is your source that says 99.9% of Han Chinese DO NOT have ‘logic’ /’deduction’ etc. and the 0.1% that do migrate overseas? Substantiate your claims, then. Surely you are more ‘logical’ and such a person with high moral standing compared to an ‘illogical’ racist Chinese pig like I am!

    2.)”He is typing his feelings, so anything goes.”
    “The government has plenty of “50 cent” internet minions that use various subterfuges (example “sinotibetan” for misdirecting towards a tibetan sympathizer…etc”
    Although he has to finally backtrack on his unsubstantiated accusations with this:-
    “If he is not a government worker, then my guess was wrong. The fact that he is both ignorant and racist still remains.”
    “Do not worry sinotibetan, I have the cure for you, as it has worked for Confucian men for thousands of years. The cure is to find a submissive woman and have a child. Then your natural desire to dominate and control will be satisfied to some extent. And when your child discovers global television and begins discussing his miserable treatment compared to other cultures, you can again pat yourself on the back and feel good knowing your son is just does not yet understand, and everything will become clear when he is older and age qualifies him to finally oppress his own.”

    Talking about feelings and ‘anything goes’! I think you are certainly more emotional than I am! And certainly ‘anything goes’ for you including such unnecessarily PROVOCATIVE narratives.

    3.)Joe Chen talks like AS IF he is a great supporter of multiculturalism and ‘tolerance’ and yet he utters such remarks about the Han Chinese(as a race) and his utter contempt for anything Han Chinese. The comments above already betray his true ‘feelings’ about the Han Chinese people. Perhaps, before you accuse me of being ‘racist’, you need to take a hard look at yourself first.

    4.) [“Increasing ethnic diversity within a nation will worsen the nation.” Kind of like a Chinese in Malaysia? or Russians living in California? Again, completely unsubstantiated.]
    I once said: “Yugoslavia, Nepal, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar, Philipines, Thailand, etc. – and see how some of those countries imploded because they were multi-ethnic. I am not saying that a multiethnic country should become mono-ethnic. I am saying a multi-ethnic country should not become even more diverse and a monoethnic country should not become multiethnic. Multiculturalism is centrifugal, it tears nations apart. ”
    Perhaps Joe Chen should tell us HOW being multicultural HELPED in the nation building of Yugoslavia, Nepal, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar and my country , Malaysia. Was I wrong in saying that multiethnic/multicultural societies have a tendency to break apart? OK…you want some ‘substantiation’…here you go, some examples:-
    In this case Europeans vs Europeans.

    As for the conflicts in former Yugoslavia and the low-level violence in the Caucasus – I think I don’t need to provide any links.

    You claimed my ‘logic’ substantiates this:
    ” Using his logic, the skinheads in Moscow stabbing non-slavic looking people are doing the nation a service by preventing the worsening of Russia, yeah? Maybe they should get medals of honor.”
    But I said:-“I am not saying that a multiethnic country should become mono-ethnic. I am saying a multi-ethnic country should not become even more diverse and a monoethnic country should not become multiethnic.”
    IF all humans ARE saints – then yes, why should there be even laws and governments in the first place? – by all means, all this talk about multiculturalism becomes irrelevant. I think multiculturalism brings more problems than good and history and current events have proven this to be true most of the time.

    5.)[So let’s see how his claim:
    “”Increasing ethnic diversity within a nation will worsen the nation.”
    holds up with other feelings he has posted on this forum.

    “”Those wars, political upheavels, etc. led to migration of the smartest of Europe and the Jews to America.” “These depleted the intellectual power of Europe and America gained.”

    So here he says that all of the smart Europeans (of various ethnicity, not all anglo saxon) and Jews (not anglo saxon)…. an ethnic diversity increase… bettered America. Laugh]

    Take a bit there, edit it a bit and makes it sound silly. I definitely am impressed with your superb ‘editing’ skills!
    I actually explained what I thought of that ‘ethnic diversity’ in America’s past; in the end it was ASSIMILATIONISM(into the dominant Anglo-Saxon culture) rather than MULTICULTURALISM during that era:-
    “Yes America was diverse – but their initial migrants that contributed to its development(especially in terms of intellect, science and technology) were almost all from European nations. The Jews were also mostly European Jews, influenced by European cultures. There was diversity but there is commonality in that diversity: they were all ‘European’. Unlike the current diversity advocated in the USA (and the EU and other Western nations). Blacks contributed mostly as labour and Asian migration was initially too negligible. etc…
    Although diverse, America’s dominant culture was basically derived from Anglo-Saxon culture which is still a European culture. Although different and initially there was resistance, but Eastern and Southern Europeans – having some similarity in culture and physical appearances became assimilated into ‘America’. There was some ‘ironing-out’ of that diversity.
    That was the past.”

    IF the majority of Westerners and Americans disagree with this negative view of multiculturalism, it’s all up to them – they decide for themselves what is right for themselves. I was just giving my views – I accept criticisms but I don’t go ‘personal’ like you do and I certainly don’t resort to ‘name callings’ like ‘Confucianist man’ and the like.

    6.) BTW, Joe Chen, I happen to live in multicultural, multireligious, multiethnic, multiconfessional Malaysia.
    And have we ‘progressed’ in inter-racial relations by being ‘multicultural’?
    Assimilationism or multiculturalism? That is the choice every ‘multicultural’ society is left with all the time. Assimilationism is harder when cultural and ethnic differences are vast. ‘Multicultural’ and we face the problem of lack of national unity. All multicultural societies will have to ultimately address these issues. I don’t think we should make our lives in multicultural societies harder by a policy of ‘bring in even more diversity’. Let’s try to handle our current problems associated with our already multicultural society first instead. As for countries like Japan for example, they should watch and learn what’s happening to multicultural societies like my country, the USA and Norway(more relevant to Japan to watch the Scandinavian nations) among others whether they are OK with the problems that will come when they go ‘multicultural’.

    To which of these things that I’ve said am I being illogical and ridiculous and ‘racist’ and ‘ignorant’? Perhaps instead of just calling me a ‘racist’ and ‘illogic’, provide some intellectual, logical, not-based-on-emotions REFUTATIONS to what I’ve posted instead.

    Thank you.


  95. It is a problem when a large number of superpowers are undemocratic (Russia, China Saudi Arabia,etc) because they can abuse people and deprive them of human liberties without any pressure from the Intl community.

    For example, see a country as small as Lebanon and how much influence the world has on their liberties conduct…..

  96. i thjnk its not true pakistan army is world strongest army . you no that how much capabilties and strenght of pakistan to face other countries army . in past the muslims forces are more strong and danerous without weapons

  97. 1. What is this issue with pakistan? This country is a shithole. No economy, no education, no thrustworthy government, no science, no food, no public health care, no social welfare, no positive international reputation…. Just because you have some old nukes and a fat, old fashioned army you are not great. Pakistan is a poor 3rd world country, with no potential in any field….full of backwarded tribal muslims and terrorists. A country which suffers regularly from military coups cant be successful, either.

    One last word regarding this issue: Pakistan lost all wars it ever was involved. I dont know what you people learn in school, but I guess youre all brainwashed by your own leader’s prophaganda, which means you dont even got acess to very basic informations/media: -1 pak

    2. UK. Its overrated. I guess because of its legacy regarding the old British Empire and Commonwealth of Nations. Nowadays theres nothing left. Even the main isles are quite fragmentated: Scotts, Ulster and Welsh’ are autonomous. So in my view theres nothing left from the past. UK even lost most of its REAL economy. I mean industry…building/developing stuff etc. Since Maggie Thatcher they abandoned their industrial core in exchange for an extensive financial sector (City of London) and related services. But this massivly backfired during the last financial crisis and I dont see this will ever improve near future. While other european countries like Germany or France are producing real goods and export it around the world, UK’s economy is ruined. Theres a giantic gap in funding, as a result they try to reduce their expenses…..which makes everything worse: They cant even afford their navy anymore and cancelled their new aircraft carriers/planes not to speak about free university education or solid social welfare… My impression is you all overrate the size of standing armies and nuclear weapons. Especially nukes wont be used anyway…ever. Much more important is a strong industry. In times of political tensions Its ALOT easier to build military hardware than building a solid industry from the scratch (which is, in fact, impossible). Highly industrialized countries like Russia, Japan, France or Germany can build 10ooo tanks and 10k planes in no-time, if neccesary. Even nukes should be a matter of days if they dont own this kind of weapons. What will UK do in this case? Sell faulty financial products?

    So theres no way UK is something like number 3 in this ranking, not even remotely. Whoever stated this: Your are wrong.

    3. My personal rating for top influential countries:

    1) USA are for obvious reasons worlds leading power. US dominate this planet in media, “culture”, sciene, economically, politically. The military and IMC are still unmatched. I guess this will still last a long time. Also most people percive them as “positive” country. There might be flaws, but in general people still think they are a ‘good’ country. For me…I have to say I like US movies, music, novels computergames. Also their scientific effords in space and all the other entertainment stuff coming from US. I guess no one can deny their dominance in media and modern culture. China, for example is the total opposite. The are still a communist dicatorship. Alot of people fear them. Theres no positive opinion at all. China is not exporting culture in any way. I dont know any good chinese movies, nor books etc… It will take ALOT of time for China to close the gap to the US.

    2) Russia. Its huge and has probably the strongest conventional military, proven in many wars. They have alot resources, which means alot other countries rely on them. Currently they also have the best space agency. Since Nasa is permanently reduced in funding and even abandoned the space shuttle….. Russia is currently the last nation which is able to send people into space and back (on a regular base).

    3) China. Worlds biggest population and strong economy. I cant judge military strength. Not much is known about new chinese military technology . In my impression alot of this stuff are just stolen copypaste designs in prototype state. Its questionable it will ever work. Cultural influence of China is almost non-existant. It also has no capable allies. They never send help in regions suffering a natural disasters, no food aid for starving countries. Instead they are exploiting the living shit out of poor african regions. Well everybody does that to a certain extent, but chinese are special. Most people have no positive attitude towards this communist regime, they really have to do alot to close the gap to the US.

    4) Germany, high-tech economy, quite high population, public health care & social welfare, free education, strong focus on regenerative energies & leading in related technologeis, perfect location in the heart of europe with no external threats, probably leading power of the EU

    5) France, solid economy…some juicy “beacon” corporations, public health care & social welfare, free education, strong standing military, good “cultural export”, major EU country, political connections to their former colonial empire, especially in Africa

    6) Japan, very highly populated and industrialized high-tech country, nice cultural export. Probably Japan could be rated before Germany, but after this recent nuclear desaster and their ongoing economic problems they seem to be a lame duck.

    7) Brasil, potential hegemon of South America and future regional power, alot resources, solid economy, high population

    8) Canada, solid economy, nice welfare and health care, alot resources and alot potential in the arctic, canada has a very positive perception…alot of people want to live there

    9) Italy, highly industrialized, solid economy, welfare and health care, high “cultural” export, should get rid of Berlusconi soon^^

    10) India, some paralleles to China, alot of economic potential and huge population, but alot poverty and inferior infrastructure, they still have a long way to go.

    • says

      Im in complete agreement with Zeke except instead of Italy, probably Turkey or South Afica would be better choice and India should be higher, considering its location and population

    • Btw correction, make sure you know the difference between communism and totalitarianism. China is no longer communist but is still totalitarian.

      This list is ok, but slightly biased towards “Western nations”. This addresses the main, shallow aspects, but does not address the internal society problems, the population/immigration problems, the racial/demographics problems, the class problems, the education system, etc.

      Although these are not really the big things, they have a pretty influential effect on each nation. If they are not addressed, the nation will slowly rot from within and more strife and conflicts will occur, as it is happening now.

  98. djcutt1curtis says

    My most powerful millitary countries,1,U.S,(2).Russa,(3).Germany,(4).China, but have doupts about them they want cross waters to fight.(5).Japan.(6).Iran,but it will be a differant fight,they got snakes,technologies,no sence of life.they play hide an seek fightin.(7 ). U.K. B.C. time very powerful,but could rise through technology & hard work.(8),FRANCE good fighters as long as they have upper hand,but will be a trun coat and leave you by yourself.(9).India Smart good tescnology, but to slow to use it,lack air power& water millitary power.(10).South Africa,could be a higher pick,but has no unification,no stragies plans,no air combat technology or water,they are hell to deal with in their own country ground fighting but thats it.

  99. Yes…I agree you all whatever you mentioned in the post. Seems like you all are at least thinking for your country to keep on the best. Keep it up guys be promotive and encourage.


  100. this is all rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  101. The U.S Will be the sole Superpower as long as English remains the Universal Language. That will never change.

  102. top ten most powerful Countries in the world
    1.United States
    2.United Kingdom
    6.Vatican City

  103. Top ten most powerful ARMY in the World
    1.United States
    4.United Kingdom
    10.North Korea

    the United States is the number One most powerful ARMY in the World. that”s why if the United States is the number One powerful ARMY in the world that mean the United States is also powerful Countries in the world.because US make WAR to all countries in the world. now the world was Under of the United States Government.

    • says

      GIGO…Garbage in garbage out….:)

      reason behind this is you know very well that time to time america has asked for help to india.
      recent news is that american economy is falling very fast due to which once again america will have to ask for the help to india like slaves……………..

  104. when the united states war to all countries in the world almost 700 Million soldiers go around the world to make WAR to all countries of the Earth. WAR BY THE UNITED STATES ARMY, THE United States is the number one most Powerful ARMY in the World that’s why when the US WAR to all nations of the Earth,the world was ruled by the United States Government.

  105. number one most powerful ARMY in the world is the united states that’s why when the United States make war to all countries of the world the world become bomer like lake of fire now the whole earth was ruled by the United States Government

    • MY GOD these IDIOTS. How can you guys even speak english?

      Get a fucking clue.

      And learn, “retards”…

      • Let met try, what I could deduce is : “American Army have 700 Million soldiers, and due to such a high number of soldiers USA army can make presence in all Countries. USA not only have high number of soldiers but is technologically advanced too. This lethal combination of number and technology makes USA Army ‘the most powerful one’ in world. If USA Army is most powerful in world, one can ‘safely’ say that USA itself is most powerful country in world. If war brakes out, USA army will (can) bombard each and every place on earth, at that time whole earth will look like lake of fire. And hence, if war brakes out, ultimately, Whole world (all nations) will be governed under USA government ” …

        • Man these “ignorant”, stupid Americans. What a disgrace to the country.

          They need to learn first before getting butthurt and raging.

        • Although what she said was absolutely correct. (But Russia, China, etc won’t just let it happen so easily.)

        • General Paulus says

          How can the USA have 700 million soldiers when their population is only 300 million? You did not do much research. The USA today has about 1,100 soldiers most of them however are reserves. This message is replying to you Sudhanshu Swami.

          • Hi General Paulus , These words and facts are not mine, nor I agree/disagree with these . I was just Translating “from English to English” the comment(s) of “jessica Prado”. See I put those statements in quotes.

  106. INDIA is 8th powerfull country in this world ya i m aggry bcoz india’s GDP , world market field is very strong and here the 7th largest country in the world population 2nd place india is cultural country educated country but it is right Too much poverty in india but it is also true in a FORBES magazine record 2011 At least 150 Indian millionair actullay poverty responciblity goes to our goverment
    anyway INDIA is always no.1 for me

  107. NO 01 ARMY OF THE WORLD ( P A K I S T A N )

    • says



  108. I see the influence in a religious point of view.As everyone knows all religions are derived from Hinduism and is a great impact on the HUMAN PSYCHE LOGIC,to anyone who has a Hi-IQ will know what it means to have a influencing religion that has been one from the beginning unlike christianity that has changed countless times over the centuries and therefore have over 1000 different churches.After all this analyzing I have come to know what it means to be Hindu and the teachings of the Bhagvath Geeta that is like none, and holds most divine then any other teachings.So now when the time comes and people will look for answers,I hope they’ll look in the right places.I just want to say that “It’s the Christians who are committing all the atrocities in the world right now and Hinduism never ever did anything of that extent, and what was was in retaliation or an answer of rigtheousness.Any Comments???

    • Chrisius Dossius Optimus Maximus says

      The only other religion that is derived from Hinduism is Buddlhism, none of the others. Is this some kind of weird Hidu nationalist notion?