Open Thread 122

This week’s Open Thread.

Comments

  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. The next time Mozambique solicits new designs for its flag, I intend to submit two:
    1.) Homosexual flag with AK in center
    2.) Rainbow with AK at one end and book at the other

  3. As a serious Dune fan myself, I’m dismayed that the premiere of the movie will be postponed for a year.
    BTW, regardless how one looks at it, homosapiens will be inevitably cyborgized, considering various ‘parts’ have been added to the externals and internals of the human bodies, ranged from dildos, silicone implants,…heart pacers..and will gradually ‘evolve’ into a new species. And each member can exist in a number of ‘avatars’, like one as a multi-gender sex worker in a brothel on planet Mars… while another as a sapien pet cat on Earth,… all quantum linked.

  4. Globohomo will be content so long as the main protagonist miscegenates with someone of African blood.

    BTW, it’s interesting what Corona-chan has done to the movies. For one, it seems like it has debunked this idea of direct-to-home blockbusters (though I suppose that is difficult to evaluate with an unsettled economy.)

  5. Are the Armenians still holding their own?

  6. another anon says

    Dune is good, but you can do better. The fandom hierarchy is inescapable.

    Smol brain likes Harry Potter
    Big brain likes WH40K
    Exploding brain likes Dune
    Galactic brain likes Lord of the Rings.

    https://twitter.com/WASBAPPIN/status/1313594024142409729

  7. Kent Nationalist says

    Powerful

    Imagine prospects for world peace, prosperity, & security if Joe Biden were President of the United States & Alexei Navalny the President of Russia. We’ll soon be halfway there.“Imagine all the peopleLiving life in peaceYou, you may say I'm a dreamerBut I'm not the only one” https://t.co/oHV7P3fYTY— John O. Brennan (@JohnBrennan) October 9, 2020

  8. How does this translate to “Summer Atreides” as shown in your cast list? In standard English usage, “Summer” is a female name.

    This is my bug, I missed the auto-translator error. “Leto” in the Russian language is summer

  9. Hard to say as both sides lie about winning or losing ground in the mountains. There were 3 foggy days that stopped drone attacks, but now the azeris/turks drones are back at blowing up all armenian equipment and it seems armenians have no way to stop them. At the same time it looks like azeri/jihadi ground attacks suffered great losses from armenian infantry and some really accurate artillery strikes.

  10. AnonFromTN says

    As this thread is open, I’d like to lighten the mood of this site by posting a couple of funny real-life stories.

    One. As some people might know, Nicaragua acknowledged Crimea as part of Russia all the way back in 2014. Recently Nicaragua appointed an honorary consul in Crimea. Ostensibly because of that the Ukrainian government suggested imposition of unspecified sanctions on Nicaragua (https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/ukraine-plans-sanctions-on-nicaragua-over-crimea-honorary-consul). Some aspects are particularly ridiculous. First, this gesture is six years too late. Second, the trade between Nicaragua and Ukraine is so insignificant that Nicaragua isn’t likely to feel any impact of these sanctions (it’s like Burkina Faso sanctioning Nauru, or vice versa).

    Two. Ukrainian MP Ruslan Stefanchuk, who serves as a representative of Zelensky in the Ukrainian parliament Verkhovna Rada, suggested a law to abandon switching from summer to winter time to counteract “Russian aggression”. He claims that this measure would help to reintegrate the areas Ukraine lost since the coup of 2014. I think a prayer to one of the Navajo gods would be more effective.

  11. AnonFromTN says

    Powerful

    Fantastically stupid. Yet there are many commonalities between Biden and Navalny. Both are dumb. Both are corrupt. But there are differences. Biden has Alzheimer, whereas Navalny does not. Navalny is supported by 2-3% of Russian population, whereas Biden has a lot stronger support in the US.

  12. Navalny as a hybrid between Gorby and Kerensky.

    Lenin had less than 2% support before he climbed on the armored car at the Finland train station in Petrograd.

    I hope that this time Russians will be less myopic…

  13. AnonFromTN says

    Are the Armenians still holding their own?

    Hard to tell. Both sides lie too much. Both were caught lying. One of the latest: Azeri president Aliev claimed that his troops captured Hadrut in Karabakh. This lie was immediately debunked by numerous people on the ground demonstrating Armenian control of it. But this does not mean that Armenian side lies less than the Azeri side. They are perfectly matched in this regard.

  14. I seldom frequent those ‘fandom’ sites but I did read Dune(the original 6 books), Foundation series, LOTR..
    My impression:
    –LOTR is ‘racial holy war’ romanticized and homosexuality eulogized
    –Star War is just martial arts movies in futuristic settings and homopedophillia romanticized.
    –The Star Trek motto is even more revealing: Its a 5 yrs mission, (Starship Enterprise had few human females in the old series.. ).. to explore new ‘worlds’..to boldly goes where no man has gone before(into each other’s rectum or engage in alien ‘bestiality’ )..
    ……….
    I actually have a sci-fi plot to do with the universe before the last Big Bang..Something to do with cosmic conflict between carbon based lifeforms and silicon based ‘God’…

  15. The wogs are winning.

    Which wogs? Who cares? Both the Armenians and Azeris are indistinguishable, filthy wogs.

  16. Kent Nationalist says

    What science-fiction/fantasy novels do not involve homosexuality?

  17. H.G. Well’s ‘The first men in the moon”?
    The sojourn was a short one and the 2 male characters Bedford and Cavor were occupied with fighting a hostile silicon based lifeform. The movie version had a female character.

  18. Baron Harkonnen (villain in Dune) was gay – it will be interesting to see if they put that in.

  19. AnonFromTN says

    Navalny as a hybrid between Gorby and Kerensky.

    All three are pathetic nonentities. But I was taught in college math that you can compare infinitesimally small entities. If that’s true, then Navalny is even smaller than the other two. About mosquito size, if we assume that Gorby and Kerensky are hamster-sized. Anyone falling for that piece of shit does not deserve pity, deserves only contempt.

  20. Armenians are Christians, and their contribution to scientific advancement is considerable.

  21. Belarusian Dude says

    Noticing a weird trend that constructed sovok names like Mels, Elem, Vladlen, etc. Are ancedotally getting more common and weirdly not disappearing. Very cringe, very uncool of the Slavosphere.

  22. another anon says

    Correct. The Caucasian war is boring, there are far more important struggles going in the world – for example, struggle of the last sexual minority that still faces open discrimination, that is still acceptable target of insults and persecution.

    The animesexuals.

    https://lgbta.wikia.org/wiki/Animesexual

    Alt-right shall concentrate their efforts here, on fight against animephobia. It is in their interest, because animesexuals seem to be overrepresented in the alt-right community.

    https://reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/dx99mp/aita_for_refusing_to_acknowledge_my_brothers/

  23. Gertruda also?

  24. I’d say sci-fi got gay in the ’70s. Maybe, a few things in the ’60s, but the ’70s were more especially gay. What’s interesting was the related trend of describing everyone on Earth as black or mixed race, with the blackest the most admired for their rarity, which started about the same time. I’ll bet several novels feature both themes. (I can think of one by the homo Clarke – ironic how it was Asimov that died of AIDS)

    Early sci-fi was not very gay. In fact, pulp writers got paid extra, if their story was the cover illustration and the editors (and writers) knew that illustrations of women with big bazongas sold well to their target audience of adolescent boys.

  25. Why Brennan Sucks

    From voting for Gus Hall in the 1970s to his high level US Intel positions, this guy is really out of whack with reality. On the foreign policy front, realists with an appreciation and respect for morality are lacking at MSNBC, CNN and a good number of other venues.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/503105-former-cia-chief-navalny-imagine/

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/01/11/misreading-trump-putin-and-us-russian-relations/

  26. In Russia the old Orthodox names are back. I have a couple of kids born in my family with names that seem to come straight from the Living of Protopop Avvakum and we’re not Old Believers at all.

    Can’t imagine anyone calling his son Vladlen today.

  27. Lord of the Rings sucks. Practically all the literary world was indifferent or hostile when it was published, but it (quite ironically, considering Tolkien’s views) rode to popularity on the back of the Hippy movement.

  28. Blinky Bill says

    Iran’s conduct here is also unique, given that – astonishingly – it plucked a CIA special agent from the face of the earth without warning, held him captive for as long as 13 years, and to this day refuses to admit its responsibility.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/10/6/us-court-iran-owes-1-4bn-over-ex-fbi-agent-presumed-dead

  29. And so is most of Africa. So what?

    The main thing Armenians are known for are the Kardashians, whose literal claim to fame is making a sex tape with and being whores to American negroes.

  30. Armenians are so far ahead of Azeris and Africans, there is no comparison.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Armenian_scientists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Azerbaijani_scientists_and_philosophers

    As a person of (according to ancestry.com) 100% Euro Heritage, I feel a kinship with them.

  31. Who’s the actress playing the Reverend Mother? She looks old and sort of fuckable for an old woman. Seriously.

  32. As a person of (according to ancestry.com) 100% Euro Heritage, I feel a kinship with them.

    Why, do you have a unibrow or something? Does your sister have a mustache?

    This is what Armenians and Azeris really look like:

    https://twitter.com/justarmothings/status/716507699043643392

  33. Alternate history question for you: How would you have governed Russia if you would have been put in Russian Tsar Nicholas II’s place in 1894? I mean governed Russia for as long as you would have actually had the power to do so.

  34. Laser hair removal can be a strong ally for them! 😀

  35. Iran should refer the family to Hillary Clinton accounts and have them collect from her.

    Levinson was CIA, and to get him back, US put together a team led by Robert Mueller (yes, that Robert Mueller).

    Mueller then recruited Oleg Deripaska (yes that Oleg Deripaska) to serve as an intermediary with the Iranians. By all accounts, things were going well with the Iranian negotiations until State Department led by Hillary Clinton spiked them because she didn’t like the optics of getting too cozy with Russians and Iranians. And that was the end of poor Levinson.

  36. And people think I’m joking when I say that Pikachu themed sex robots are the biggest threat to humanity.

  37. Don’t the Armenians have 23mm guns mounted on trucks in large quantities?

  38. Blinky Bill says
  39. Blinky Bill says
    1. Radio frequency jamming

    Disrupts the radio frequency link between the drone and its operator by generating large volumes of RF output. Once the RF l ink is severed, a drone will either descend to the ground or return home.

    1. GNSS jamming

    Disrupts the drone’s satellite link, such as to a GPS (global positioning system) or GLONASS (global navigation satellite system). Once the navigation direction is lost, a drone will hover, land or return home.

    1. Spoofing

    The drone’s communications link is hijacked to take control of it.

    1. Laser

    Destroys vital parts of the drone, causing it to crash to the ground.

    1. Nets

    Entangles the targeted drone and/or its rotors.

    1. Projectile

    Ammunition – regular or custom-designed – is used to break or destroy an incoming unmanned aircraft.

    1. Combined interdiction elements

    Uses several C-UAS (counter-unmanned aircraft systems) together – most commonly, RF and GNSS jamming systems that work in tandem.

    https://youtu.be/m-CA6Eaaibs

    https://youtu.be/9ElNjgZCDpQ

    https://youtu.be/HVNtz8gLhaY

  40. Regarding rice planting making Chinese collectivistic, unlike wheat growing Europeans, Chinese civilization started in the Yellow River basin, which planted wheat, not rice.

  41. So far, we have had 14 days of combat, 27 Sep – 10 Oct, so 2 weeks and now we have what looks like a temporary ceasefire so we can sum up the information we have during the pause, for Azeri losses we know 447 deaths have been confirmed via social media of their troops, I assume some losses are not on social media so applying a 1/3 bonus seems reasonable.

    Territory: Azerbaijan has gained roughly 170 square kilometres of land during the course of the fighting, at least 145 square kilometres as of Oct 7th and at least 25 square kilometres more by Oct 10th according to my estimates.

    Losses military personnel:
    Armenia: 376
    Azerbaijan: est. losses of soldiers 600, Syrian mercs: 107, total: 707.

    Equipment losses:

    Tanks:
    Armenia: 75
    Azerbaijan: 21

    APC’s:
    Armenia: 6
    Azerbaijan: 0

    IFV’s:
    Armenia: 17
    Azerbaijan: 16

    Towed Artillery:
    Armenia: 12
    Azerbaijan: 0

    SPA:
    Armenia: 9
    Azerbaijan: 0

    MLRS Systems:
    Armenia: 22
    Azerbaijan: 0

    SAM Systems:
    Armenia: 13
    Azerbaijan: 0

    Radars & Jammers:
    Armenia : 3
    Azerbaijan: 0

    Aircraft:
    Armenia: 1 x Su 25
    Azerbaijan: 5 x Harop UAV , 1 Orbiter 1K UAv, 8 unknown UAV, all Bayraktar TB2 in my personal opinion.

    Trucks, Jeeps etc:
    Armenia: 142
    Azerbaijan: 11

    Note: Azerbaijan has air control so they can take more photos of destroyed Armenian equipment whereas Armenians can only take footage from ground level, meaning many destroyed Azeri equipment not showing up in footage as Armenians have no way to record them.

    Sources:

    https://twitter.com/ryanmofarrell/status/1313636390786260993

    https://armenpress.am/eng/news/1030965.html

    https://www.syriahr.com/en/187474/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=1200448878b40907b4ed06602d2d303472ca604e-1602297104-0-AYmSUS6O7mm6YhR-DThIu_CiXg4FmR9sVMzHyRSw3h_2bhT1nOWpeU1cbyyWh9W_k0V4iDlznFmB3p_p3t_2pgmYbPvZz1z5bvhfsUOxdDtxgq_htqtL1Yi2IZcphIuywNhSfC9oHTlvnUMeerbFgOC9FKbpwOdT9bbOUJS1-Gjbb6Khpz7ghtuKPLelkhubucIUx0sos31h7MSwevfKnpfWA0xXP-psaZxF_fstYLdTD9aGDP8sNQaYYsPEszW4Uyv-NqjtrGZ34DdsyFQQYziL6-_Evg2n9y9b_2t7sQ5Z

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html

    To do a quick and dirty summary, in armoured vehicles, Armenian losses are 98 confirmed vs 37 for Azerbaijan, in artillery systems of all kinds, 43 for Armenia vs 0 for Azerbaijan, SAM systems, 13 for Armenia vs 0 for Azerbaijan and in miscellaneous vehicles, 142 for Armenia vs 11 for Azerbaijan.

  42. china-russia-all-the-way says

    What is the per piece cost of a suicide drone?

  43. Blinky Bill says
  44. Blinky Bill says
  45. Thulean Friend says

    Regarding rice planting making Chinese collectivistic, unlike wheat growing Europeans, Chinese civilization started in the Yellow River basin, which planted wheat, not rice.

    Joseph Henrich’s book WEIRD convincingly argues that the roots of Western individualism lie in the early Middle Ages, pioneered by the Catholic church which played a crucial role in promoting the nuclear family (over the extended one), which frays kinship networks and boosts individualism. There were also other factors such as banning cousin marriage and pushing through widow inheritance reforms that aided the same process.

    The European guild system in the Middle Ages was unique. In all other soceities, the primary form of organisation was through kinship networks rather than with strangers on the lines of your profession. This could not have done without the previous family structure reorientation.

    There’s a good interview with him here.

  46. Thulean Friend says

    You should be dancing more.

  47. Belarusian Dude says

    This is anecdotal but I know two Russian Vladlens IRL and met one online (who I played games with, he was very young, less than 15 I believe). I’m not trying to say these names are becoming MORE common but 30 years after USSR collapsed I’d expect to never see them amongst younger folk and yet here I am. Plus, Vladlen of course isn’t the only silly constructed name out there.

  48. martingallo says

    This sounds like a lot more fun:

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ritualistic-cat-torture-was-once-a-form-of-town-fun

    “Ritualistic Cat Torture Was Once a Form of Town Fun”

    That brings us to the pastime of cat-burning (brûler les chats), which is exactly what it sounds like. It was a form of medieval French entertainment that, depending on the region, involved cats suspended over wood pyres, set in wicker cages, or strung from maypoles and then set alight. In some places, courimauds, or cat chasers, would drench a cat in flammable liquid, light it on fire, and then chase it through town.

  49. Blinky Bill says
  50. You’re reading from inside a culture marinated in homosexuality and poz, that’s why you’re seeing it everywhere. LOTR on the other hand was written at a time when hanging around public conveniences got you thrown in prison and out of polite society. Did you know men actually can be lifelong friends without sucking dick?

  51. https://twitter.com/RobertCahaly/status/1314570906132533250?s=20

    The top pollster of 2016 has Trump stretching his lead in Arizona from their last poll in August. Trump got 48.08 to Hildog’s 44.58 in 2016.

  52. On one wall is a “Star Trek” poster with investigators’ faces substituted for the Starship Enterprise crew. But even that alludes to a dark fact of their work: All but one of the offenders they have arrested in the last four years was a hard-core Trekkie.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-apr-27-fg-photo27-story.html

  53. china-russia-all-the-way says

    At the end of the day, the youth of Taiwan are not overly worked up about the idea of a takeover by the Mainland.

    TAIPEI, Taiwan — If Taiwan is to fend off a Chinese invasion, it will need reluctant recruits like Roger Lin to summon the patriotism that inspired older generations but these days doesn’t burn as passionately in the young.
    The 21-year-old French-language major regards his upcoming mandatory four-month military service as an unnecessary burden, even as complaints persist that such stints are too short to protect the island compared with the two to three years that previous generations served.

    Weeks of flaring tensions between China and Taiwan, which has been buzzed by dozens of Chinese warplanes in a disquieting show of force, have not persuaded Lin to change his mind. If China and its much larger military decides to invade, the island’s devastation would be a fait accompli, he said, even with the outside chance the United States would come to Taiwan’s defense.

    “The faster those four months pass, the better. It’s a waste of time,” Lin, swiping at his phone at a cafe on the campus of National Chengchi University in Taipei, said of his military service. “I don’t think the U.S. government will help us anyway. Whether they do or not, for us ordinary people, the outcome will be the same.”

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-10-06/china-taiwan-military-service

  54. anonymous coward says

    The “literary world” is a literal den of literal shit-eaters and devil-worshipers.

    They might have been excused for it if they had any artistic talent, but they have none whatsoever.

    Your comment sounds like an endorsement, not like a criticism.

  55. Korenchkin says

    As Epigon put it, express pickaxe deliveries to Petersburg and Vienna for Mr. Dissident and Mr. Liberal

  56. china-russia-all-the-way says

    Are analysts clear on what kind of drones are being used as suicide drones? From the Azeri videos, drones are being used to even take out ordinary (?) trucks. It makes sense to spend $7 million on a drone to take out a radar but an ordinary truck?

    https://cdnuploads.aa.com.tr/uploads/VideoGallery/2020/10/02/cffa609c18fb668e38a514927f7e9e2c.mp4

  57. Uuuh Anatoly are you ok? Your great bifurcation text is still nowhere to be seen

  58. There’s a number of issues with the LOTR story narrative(can’t remember if some have to do with either the novels or movies or both):
    –The elves were said to be ‘the fairest’of all the races and immortal but yet they were few in numbers; why? It contradicted demographic common sense. Either to do with abstinence or homosexuality; how else?
    –How does the orcs’ craving for ‘man flesh’ strike you? Ever seen a female orcs in the original movies?
    –‘Female’ dwarves also had beards ??
    …………..
    Back in those days in England, seems if the closet doors were closely guarded, things will be fine:
    2 examples:
    –Alan Turing, a well known gay ‘martyr’ was persecuted because he paraded his bum boys in front of his friends I read.
    –Lord Mountbatten was well known as Lord ‘Mountbottom’ within his inner circle.

  59. The elves were a dying race of immortals, hence their lacking fecundity.

    Craving for man flesh meant cannibalism, not buggery.

    Female dwarves with beards: an odd detail but not more; it looks like this was just mentioned in a couple of places among Tolkien’s misc. papers published after his death (in the later volumes).

  60. Blinky Bill says

    T-14 Armata costs $3.7 million and VT-4 costs $3 million.

    Su-25 costs $11 million and Kamov Ka-50 “Black Shark” costs $16 million.

    Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

  61. On a related note, I’m not sure wet rice agriculture gave NE Asians about 5 more IQ points.

    I think it is explained by one of two possibilities: either additional cold selection, or the fact that Europeans have been experiencing dysgenics for longer. China had its last big famine in 1961, and I’m sure there were plenty of people dying in the gutter well past 1900. The higher estimates I’ve heard are that Europeans loss about 15 points, since 1850. I think that might be too high – but it is not nothing that they lost, and, very conservatively, I think we are talking at least a 50 year difference (but probably more.)

    Tangentially, IIRC, the latest estimate for Mongolia is 91. If accurate, I think it at least partly shows a lack of development – a lack of the Flynn effect. Mongolians might have been herders, but they took a lot of Chinese women.

  62. Tolkien has built a beautiful and epic lore. He has created a landscape of legends. Seeing (only) a homoerotic angle in Tolkien’s books is of course a sign of poor taste and twisted mind.

    We do live in degenerate times…

  63. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/SolarisNovel.jpg

    https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1587550153l/759514._SY475_.jpg

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51H4DY71CJL._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Neuromancer_%28Book%29.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Snowcrash.jpg

    In fact, the large majority of SiFi books I’ve read had nothing homo about them.

    A notable exception is Greg Egan’s books where the author is clearly pushing for a gender bender agenda. But even in this case, the stories are much more complex and interesting than some futuristic homoeroticism.

  64. While, on most issues, Tucker Carlson appears to be an antagonist toward the Deep State…the one exception is his quite strong adherence to the China bad meme. This meme is a big favorite with the Deep State since it affords a never ending bogeyman, which they use to increase the war budget…a big part of their wealth and power support.
    A frequent guest on Carlson’s show is the discredited, self hating Gordon Chang, who can always be counted on to denigrate China on any and all issues.

  65. India pill: what would Kamala Harris be doing, if she lived in India?

    (Cleaning out latrines, or performing the housework in a brothel.)

  66. When younger and lovelier Charlotte Rampling was in Zardoz which has some thematic overlap with Dune.

  67. Blinky Bill says

    Gordon Chang is a fool, but there is a profound sense of sadness in him. I believe he behaves as he does as a coping mechanism.

    https://youtu.be/zNwt2DGshpw

  68. Daniel Chieh says

    On the other hand, he has externalized his personality issues into a profitable career, so in that sense, it has been a triumph.

  69. Daniel Chieh says

    Its a very strange, though pretty funny perspective. I like mocking Frodo and Sam’s relationship now and then, but its pretty obvious that as a devoted Catholic, Tolkien had nothing great to say about homosexuality.

    The preponderance of men is simply due to most novels at the time being focused on men; women were not really supposed to be involved in the front. “What a man is is an arrow into the future, and what a woman is is the place the arrow shoots off from” in the words of Sylvia Plath, though Tolkien made exceptions for extremely special women like Galadriel(who still is powerful in a way distinct from men).

    Reality being what it is, navies consisting of men in close proximity for months often had higher rates of buggery and there are no lack of jokes about that. But it is categorically a different nature than the homosexuality promoted these days.

  70. Here is funny viral news story of today.

    In Novosibirsk, a sign has banned Chinese people from entering a hat exhibition.

    “Dear Chinese people who have come to our land! We are worried about our visitors, so the entrance to the exhibition “1000 hats” is strictly banned for you, This is necessary in order to prevent the appearance of coronavirus among the guests of our exhibition. We apologize for any inconvenience caused. ”

    Text of the sign is accompanied by a photograph showing the crossed-out face of an Asian person.

    https://static.ngs.ru/news/2020/99/preview/cb05125147e61459392f4a8d35917ef008bb71e1_612_408_c.png

    The claim of the exhibition organizers, about coronavirus seems a little out of sync with current epidemiological reality, as by now coronavirus rates are much higher in Russia than likely in China.

    So the real reason to ban Chinese people from the hat exhibition? Surely because the exhibition organizers are paranoid that Chinese “industrial spies” will steal the design of the hats and sell them on aliexpress.

  71. Thulean Friend says

    In the currently ongoing French Open, all the finalists in both the male and the women’s singles tournament are Europeans.

    I also don’t understand why black women (Serena Williams, and now mixed-race blacks like Naomi Osaka) can find success in women’s tennis but no major black male tennis player can.

    The only non-Western finalist is Brazilian Soares in the doubles final, and he looks like this:

    https://i.imgur.com/oQWtdgl.jpg

    It is absurd how eurocentric tennis is.

  72. Hirsute female dwarves I take to be a joke about hirsute women being unattractive.

    The gayest thing in LotR is probably the name of the inn, the Prancing Pony. But the fact that it sounds gay to the modern ear, is probably more a sad commentary on our times than anything else. It also shows how far we are removed from horses.

    Elves having low TFR I consider a fantasy trope (see the excellent novel The Broken Sword 1954, by Poul Anderson). It is necessary both to explain why they are a dying race and to offset their powers over mortal men. Anderson makes other distinctions, such as elves not being able to use iron and their women not having the same emotional ability to love.

    The proper uses of accusations of gayness are to drive it from the public sphere in order to minimize the damage it can do, and to toughen up men. Like nearly anything, it’s best applied in moderation. Applied in the extreme, it just atomizes men and prevents them from forming solid social bonds which are necessary in order to promote a masculine society, as well as it serves as propaganda tool for feminists (for instance to get more butt-kicking babes).

    The idea that everything is gay is a gay fantasy – one of the reasons it should not be promoted.

  73. Blinky Bill says

    Imagine being this poor chap, Am-Shalem Singson, 28, of the Bnei Menashe community.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/indian-immigrant-beaten-in-tiberias-in-apparent-coronavirus-linked-hate-crime/

    Trying desperately to explain to your attackers what it means to be a Jew, an Indian Jew, one from the Sister States, who looks neither “Jewish” or “Indian”. All while they rain down blows to your head.

    https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2020/03/1-e1584341312635.jpg

  74. Well, it’s an oil-rich country where the cops drive BMWs. They probably have huge numbers of such drones.

  75. Fairly hilarious to think of a someone imagining The Prancing Pony as a gay pub managed by Barliman Butterbur, the landlord, and Nob, his hobbit servant.

    He began to suspect even old Butterbur’s fat face of concealing dark designs.

    And Frodo and his pals do swap beds at the inn for the sake of personal safety.

    It is said in the Shire that the Bree folk are a touch queer.

  76. This is very funny. What did Furgal do to inspire such a fanatical follower?

  77. china-russia-all-the-way says

    Azerbaijan’s nominal GDP was $47 billion in 2019. That’s $4,700 per capita. So it’s a middle income country. One hundred drones at $7 million per unit would be a lot to Azerbaijan. So I wonder if the lower value targets are being attacked by a lower cost drone and what are the circumstances that expose the lower value targets to lower cost drones.

  78. china-russia-all-the-way says

    Actively practicing Christians, mostly Evangelicals and other downmarket Protestants or Catholic equivalents like Mike Pence, are substantially more anti-China than other Americans. Tucker Carlson is one of the few actively practicing mainline Protestants left. He is probably the most anti-China personality on Fox News.

    Is Christian America the adversary of China?

    If so it comes as a relief to know that the most dramatic demographic change in America over the last 40 years is not purely racial but in the shrinking size of Christian America. In 1980, 60% of America was white, Christian, and married. It is now probably 25%. (General Social Survey)

  79. The Spirit of Enoch Powell says
  80. AnonFromTN says

    The only Vladlen I ever knew is Tatar. Now he goes by Vlad. Names like that, as well as Mars and Venus, were pretty common among Tatars, but hardly used by anyone else.

  81. AnonFromTN says

    I hope you are right. We had quite a few dumb presidents, but never one with progressing Alzheimer. Reagan mostly succumbed after his second term.

  82. AnonFromTN says

    That’s pretty typical in the US. School education is so bad that at least 80% of the population sincerely believes that the world consists of three roughly equal places: Main Street, out-of-town, and overseas.

  83. Thulean Friend says

    Lots of debate on iSteve about affirmative action, with Asian test scores going into stratosphere on both SAT & ACT.

    https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1314612742368755715

    There were only 50 blacks in the top decile into Yale. There were 2836 Asians. Yet 30 blacks were admitted, an acceptance rate of 60%. The white acceptance rate is 20% in the top decile, but I wonder how many of those are legacies and/or jews. I’d wager once you strip those out, probably lower than even for Asians (14%).

    https://i.imgur.com/CyjZKRx.jpg

  84. Azerbaijan’s nominal GDP was $47 billion in 2019. That’s $4,700 per capita. So it’s a middle income country. One hundred drones at $7 million per unit would be a lot to Azerbaijan.

    That’s probably due to the drop in oil price. It was $75 billion in 2014. I suspect Azerbaijan was loading up on arms from those times, and has a lot of equipment it can burn through.

    So I wonder if the lower value targets are being attacked by a lower cost drone and what are the circumstances that expose the lower value targets to lower cost drones.

    This makes a lot of sense.

  85. The fact that you have the same test every year, and you have the same test for different time zones. In fact you can use algorithms to find out the most likely questions that are going to come out each year, if someone is inclined enough to do it.

  86. Actually the ironic thing is that the high achieving go getter students are actually the most likely to commit academic espionage, especially since the overwhelming emphasis is to get basically perfect grades in college and high school, in order to get into the Ivys and top firms. The slacker students are likely to care less so they cheat less. Basically if you are a top student at a competitive school and you need to get that extra leg up to get that 4.0 instead of 3.5 in an environment where grades are curved you will commit espionage to get that extra leg up, plus the workload in top academic environments is so unrealistic nowadays that you have no choice but the cut orders.

  87. The Spirit of Enoch Powell says
  88. But then there is probably no standardized way to test for creativity or lateral thinking, and will be left too open to personal interpretation or preferences of the testers, which widely vary themselves.

  89. On the subject of Sci Fi, The Expanse Season 5 is coming out in December on Amazon.

    https://www.space.com/amp/the-expanse-season-five-trailer-premiere-date

    Its a pretty good show that imagines human future as a multi-planetary civilization. It tries to be realistic (within reason) when it comes to orbital mechanics and other space related things, and has high production values – Jeff Bezos runs a tight ship which is why he is my favorite CIA backed oligarch.

    When we finally pass Basic Income, people will spend it at Amazon, and Bezos will become a $trillionaire. That should be plenty to fund his real world rocket program. At least he will be doing something productive and important for the future of humanity.

  90. Like the Atlantic Council gay bro regarding Odessa being in Crimea.

  91. If Jews were disaggregated from Europeans (as they should be), then they would drop their support for affirmative action like a lead balloon.

  92. Daniel Chieh says

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrance_Tests_of_Creative_Thinking

    Everything can be standardized. Not everything standardized is perfectly useful, but I’ve always been of the opinion that so as long as it is consistent, it helps reveal some metrics that we can use effectively(the Torrance Test, I believe, has been used with FMRI to help discover the neutral correlates with creativity).

  93. I have never heard of Furgal before the current protests. Seems that he was a decent governor. But as a lot of Russian politicians he was connected with the organized crime in the 90ies. He was elected as a nationalist during an election that Moscow was not able to rig to favour the United Russia party. So he is an outsider compared to other mainstream Russian politicians.

    In the Far East there is a lot of resentment towards Moscow. People there see Moscow as a kind of distant dictatorial power that sucks up taxes and resources without giving much in return. Few years ago several young men formed an armed militant group in Primorsky Kray and started killing cops. They were not Islamist, neither hardcore nationalists, they were just fed up with the corruption of the local authorities.

    Anyway the guy in the video looks manic, if I was him I would behave myself. In my youth I had a couple of experiences with Militsia (as it was called then). You better behave if you want to avoid unnecessary suffering…

  94. Interesting observation. Maybe tennis isn’t popular among black males?

  95. Actively practicing Christians, mostly Evangelicals and other downmarket Protestants or Catholic equivalents like Mike Pence, are substantially more anti-China than other Americans.

    Christian America insists on being an adversary to China. China is secular and not fond of religion this irritates the Christian right to no end…especially the Evangelicals (Pence, Pompeo).
    BTW the Evangelicals are much aligned with the Zionists. Here is one of their despicable, cringeworthy TV ads that runs from time to time on Fox.

    Tucker Carlson is one of the few actively practicing mainline Protestants left. He is probably the most anti-China personality on Fox News.

    True, but Carlson has plenty of competition.

  96. Oh good grief white racists are so dumb. Yale is not an educational institution, it is an IQ shredder and an instrument of political power. The entire Western educational system is set up this way – its only purpose is to serve the elites to systematically eliminate “2nd ranks” (their primary contenders for power) and manage public relations.

    We used to use genocide for same purpose but Hitler proved that approach wrong – the smartest always escaped and it was bad PR. So instead of concentration camps and gassing people we now use Universities for the same purpose with much greater success (just look at TFRs by educational level).

    Anyway, nobody gives a damn about your SAT score. The elites need blacks in Yale because future of the planet is going to be black by simple demographic mechanics. Elites need people to promote consumption commercials in Nigeria (where population growth takes place) and its good optics if people running marketing divisions are black too. Nobody cares about Asians (except Chinese, but Chinese are geopolitical rivals and so will be excluded) or whites because whites have been lethally poisoned already.

    Hearing whites and Asians complaining about University admissions process is like hearing hearing Jews and Russians complaining about not receiving enough Zyklon B for their children in the camps.

    Seriously, racists, please. Don’t send your children to Yale. Mind virus lives there. It is very deadly for your genetic lineage. If you want your kids to have an adventure, send them to Ebola invested African villages with gang rape and civil war instead. They will be MUCH safer there.

  97. In the Far East there is a lot of resentment towards Moscow. People there see Moscow as a kind of distant dictatorial power that sucks up taxes and resources without giving much in return. Few years ago several young men formed an armed militant group in Primorsky Kray and started killing cops. They were not Islamist, neither hardcore nationalists, they were just fed up with the corruption of the local authorities.

    So explain to me once again what exactly it is that the Ukrainians have forgone by distancing themselves from Moscow and its “dictatorial power that sucks up taxes and resources without giving much in return”? 🙂

  98. I was reading some POW escape book once – I think it was probably The Colditz Story – and there was this sort of funny scene where some prisoners taking the road encounter a teenage German girl who asks them to her house for a beer, saying that her father is away, and, of course, since they want to make distance, they decline, and somehow she uses the word “queer” indirectly, and I thought it was funny at the time – though the extra meaning was almost certainly all accidental.

    So far as I know (I could be mistaken), Germany (which disastrously invented the word “homosexual”, thus removing the stigma) doesn’t have a slang word for “gay” that makes it a pun of “strange.”

    “Queer” probably remains a funny word because it was used as an insult at first.

  99. Kent Nationalist says

    Women should be banned from using technology until we can figure out what the hell is going on.

  100. Their pitch is quite unbelievable as it is focused on helping so called “holocaust victims” mostly within Ukraine. How many of these individuals might still exist (-0-)? I highly suspect that most of their funds end up one way or the other into the pockets of this organizations’ leaders. Rabbi Eckstein who founded this group passed away a year ago, leaving his daughter behind to continue this “relief effort”? I can’t be the only one wondering why this group needs to pander to Evangelical Christians in the Deep South to fund its questionable programs, when everybody in the world knows that Jews constitute the one of the wealthiest ethnic groups the world over? Can’t they take care of their own “holocaust survivors” without stooping to this questionable pandering?

  101. Ukraine is the heartland of the Rus, not some distant colonial outskirts acquired in the XVIII and the XIX centuries. Ukrainian elites were readily integrated into the Russian Empire’s aristocracy. The attitudes towards the Far East and Ukraine are simply not comparable. Moreover, this Moscow’s extractive attitude is something quite recent. It only dates since the fall of the USSR. Before it was the Russian glubinka that was neglected and expropriated to build the capacities of the other republics, Ukraine included.

  102. Ukraine is the heartland of the Rus, not some distant colonial outskirts acquired in the XVIII and the XIX centuries. Ukrainian elites were readily integrated into the Russian Empire’s aristocracy.

    The Ukrainian part of the Rus empire was indeed at the center, but it has evolved into a different ethnos, a different nation that has often aspired to having its own separate state too. The aristocracy of Central and Eastern Ukraine that blended in with the aristocracy of the Russian north in the 18th century does not represent the needs nor aspirations of the Ukrainian people today.

  103. The aristocracy of Central and Eastern Ukraine that blended in with the aristocracy of the Russian north in the 18th century does not represent the needs nor aspirations of the Ukrainian people today.

    Can’t argue with that given that this aristocracy has been massacred with the majority of the Imperial elite during the Revolution.

  104. Shortly after the USSR breakup, Rabbi E’s pitch was to try to get them out, portraying a new age Nazi movement.

  105. Arthur Ashe was a great role model, when there was a tennis boom in the US. For whatever reason, it just hasn’t happened. Golf seems more popular among the bros.

  106. I can’t be the only one wondering why this group needs to pander to Evangelical Christians in the Deep South to fund its questionable programs, when everybody in the world knows that Jews constitute the one of the wealthiest ethnic groups the world over? Can’t they take care of their own “holocaust survivors” without stooping to this questionable pandering?

    Exactly. The owners of Google and Facebook should be able to kick in a few hundred million to the cause.

  107. Meanwhile in Idlib, Syria, Russian and Turk troops train together for interacting during combat.

    https://youtu.be/2jLnZdAg5Gc

    Will be useful if both Armies are deployed together as an international peace-keeping force in Karabakh.

  108. So, how many “holocaust survivors” did Rabbi E help escape the “Nazi” prison of nations in Russia/Ukraine, as opposed to just regular everyday Jews who weren’t “holocaust survivors”? How much of these funds was used for this kind of work, and how much was Rabbi E kicking back to himself and his family and friends in the form of salaries and benefits? 🙂

  109. And is there still any argument that “The Ukrainian part of the Rus empire was indeed at the center, but it has evolved into a different ethnos, a different nation that has often aspired to having its own separate state too.”?

  110. What makes the Ukrainian ethnos different?

  111. Have you forgotten Maddox? One of the great thinkers of the 21st Century, and an Armenoid. Frankly, I don’t expect foreigners to have any special affection for Armenia, but at least people should be united in contempt for Turks. I think Russia should very seriously consider the prospect of a Union-State between Turkey and Azerbaijan in the medium-future. Central Asia is rapidly pulling away from its Russian legacy as well, with serious future implications, but Putin does nothing about it, preferring the cheap stability of mentally unbalanced dictators.

  112. Anyway, they are only half, and as far as I know they barely know their slimy OJ-Simpson-lawyer father, although he might have been a slightly better paternal influence than a literal tranny. I doubt they even speak the language.

  113. “I don’t think the U.S. government will help us anyway. Whether they do or not, for us ordinary people, the outcome will be the same.”

    Guaranteeing the independence of Taiwan should be a corner stone of America foreign policy if it wants to stay in the big geopolitical game. Yes, the domino theory is valid.

  114. https://futurism.com/spacex-building-military-rocket-to-ship-weapons-anywhere-world/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    SpaceX is progressing nicely toward an orbital bomber with 100 ton carry capacity and Northrop Grumman is progressing nicely with orbital refueling capabilities.

    I said this before and I will say this again, if Russia and China want to stay as viable independent countries, they need to develop a heavy (and superheavy) orbital deployment capabilities. Orbital grade weapons vastly outclass hypersonics in speed and them being simple tungsten rods they are not subject to any conceivable treaty regulations.

  115. Dunno.

    The USSR had definite issues. That said, a good deal of he Soviet Jewry activism was crock. Likewise with when the USSR broke up.

  116. And.. this is a master troll move.

    https://m.vz.ru/news/2020/10/10/1064697.html

    TLDR:

    1. “Novichok” was transferred to the West per NIST-98 database.

    2. Russia was certified free from chemical weapons in 2017 by OPCW.

    3. Neither Omsk doctors nor Charite hospital (Germany) doctors have found traces of chemical warfare agents.

    4. Germans refuse to cooperate with Russian requests to provide grounds for criminal investigation.

    5. Russia is ready and willing to discuss with the “Western Partners” the circumstances of Navalny situation, the export of the evidence bottle by the British resident Maria Pevchih, and other aspects related to the case.

  117. 1) Differences in language.

    2) Differences in historical experiences.

    3) Differences in folk customs and handiwork, songs, heroes, dance.

    4) Differences in religious backgrounds and church leaders in the Orthodox church; Ukrainian Catholic Church.

    5) Differences in how climate effected different temperament of group cohesion and development,

    6) Different literature.

    7) Some differences in genetic structure (Ukrainians have some Balkan accretions, whereas Russians have some Finno-Ugric ones).

    8) Russians have imperial baggage to deal with, Ukrainians have a submerged nation mentality to deal with.

    9) Russian’s ambitions to reestablish themselves as a great power, whereas Ukrainians have no such pretensions.

    10) Ukrainians love their borshch, whereas Russians prefer their water downed shchi. 🙂

  118. Thulean Friend says

    Final proof of the inferiority of the gopnik 🙂

  119. Thulean Friend says

    I would wager that we’d get a black male tennis champion sooner rather than later. Not a one-off grand slam winner but someone in the same ballpark as Agassi or Sampras at least, if not Rafa/Dokovic/Federer.

    People said that blacks don’t like golf, but then Tiger Woods happened. Then they said it would never happen in Formula 1, but now we have Lewis Hamilton. We have already had Serena Williams. I think it’s only a question of time but the long timelag for tennis sure is interesting.

  120. Thulean Friend says

    Whether everything can be standarised is less interesting than whether everything can be measured. Right now we cannot measure creativity easily but after the fact, i.e. we can summarise an artist’s life. Of course, creativity can also be present in other fields, such as technology or economics or the sciences.

    I see no reason why we wouldn’t be able to measure it in the future in the crucial period before someone’s working life begins in earnest, channeling more resources to the particularly creative among us. Right now, there are no strong frameworks to do it. Even intelligence testing is quite handicapped by IQ tests, which are optimised for the 80-120 IQ range and get progressively fuzzier as you go out on either extreme. I think we need to let the ongoing polygenic revolution to play out before these questions can be conclusively solved.

  121. Daniel Chieh says

    There’s some interesting ideas about how creativity functions in the brain such as transient hypofrontality:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-edge-peak-performance-psychology/201703/the-transient-hypofrontality-edge

    The article refers specifically to exercise-induced hypofrontality, but of course, it is also a natural feature of some brains that can exert it to greater or lesser extent. This also appears to be responsive to transcranial shocks:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4451406/

    Imo its all quite promising that we will be able to do a lot more with cognitive function and certainly on some levels, biosingularity is a very promising idea.

  122. There is obviously a psychological barrier that prevents most white Americans from identifying with or supporting China against the Deep State, even if they oppose the Deep State on all other issues. China is just too foreign. Whereas with Russia, you do you see right wing Americans, especially dissident types, identify with it and take its side against the Deep State and anti-Russian elements in the American political class.

  123. All of the right-wing, from the moderate center-right and conservatives to the far-right and alt-right, are anti-China to varying degrees.

    Carlson is not very religious, and his Christianity has little to do with this politics. Carlson promotes a combination of American nationalism and a kind of implicit white identity politics and white nationalism. Being anti-China is a natural consequence of this. China is a rising power and challenger to the US, and it’s non-white. So if you’re promoting American nationalism and implicit white nationalism, obviously you’re going to be anti-China.

    I would say the center-left and mainstream liberal elite are also anti-China, mainly because China threatens their status, both economic and political, and their moral claims to global influence and dominance i.e. liberalism, human rights ideology.

    The rest of the Left includes some on the far left like tankies and knee jerk anti-Americans and anti-whites that aren’t anti-China and are even pro-China. But most on the Left are just obsessed with social issues, domestic politics, and various forms of identity politics and don’t care about or have strong feelings on China. Most of these types can be easily corralled into being anti-China though by the center-left and liberal elites by messaging to them about how China is oppressing minorities, gays, women, etc.

  124. The Spirit of Enoch Powell says
  125. Hyperborean says

    People said that blacks don’t like golf, but then Tiger Woods happened. Then they said it would never happen in Formula 1, but now we have Lewis Hamilton.

    Mélange and halfie respectively (despite Hamilton’s pretensions), setting the bar a bit low are you?

  126. The Spirit of Enoch Powell says
  127. Korenchkin says

    Ukrainians have some Balkan accretions

    You mean from the settlement of Serbs in the Eastern Ukraine under the Russian Empire or the Galician I2 subclade (which isn’t necessarily Balkan) ?

  128. There is obviously a psychological barrier that prevents most white Americans from identifying with or supporting China against the Deep State, even if they oppose the Deep State on all other issues.

    That does appear to be the case.

    But the situation with Carlson is strange (suspicious). He is pushing the Deep State line on China, as is Trump, BTW. Carlson is the most outspoken of the media on the Deep State…yet when it comes to China he toes the party line with no proof. He pretends to believe nothing the Deep State promotes…except when it involves China. This is unrealistic.

    Perhaps Carlson’s animus toward the Deep State is a sham.

  129. Speaking of the Holodomor, we know that the commies loathed peasants and the loathing increased in intensity as one moved up the hierarchy. I get the impression that Ukrainian peasants were considered the über-peasant. Does it not make sense that indifference to the famine in The Ukraine was the best that Ukrainians could hope for?

  130. Possibly. Don’t forget that Slavs first appeared on the scene in Ukraine from the Danuban basin area sometime in the 6th century. These Slavs were closely allied with the Thracians and formed a union against Roman encroachment in this area. Also, Bukovina, including its northern part that had a compact Ruthenian population played a key role in the pre-modern state of Moldavia. Later even, Ukrainian Cossack formations would traverse into Moldavia and try to insert themselves into local affairs. And as you point out, there were Serbian settlements in Southern Ukraine that probably weren’t existing in total isolation. Undoubtedly, there was also a steady trickle of Vlachs into the Zakarpattyan and Bukovinian highlands from Romania too, so as you can see there were plenty of opportunities for the accretion of Balkan genes into the Ukrainian populace.

  131. I have been trying to post this information over at unz’s recent American Racialism article for days now… i just shortened it and tried again … maybe it will make it through… meantime , here it is:

    for some reason , my posting of this “angle” has been rejected several times… perhaps it is because it was hella long… this information must be read and discussed precisely in the context of this Mr. Unz’s article !

    let me try again as i think it is absolutely PERTINENT to these discussions…

    here is a link to an essay title Darwinism Refuted by a guy named Drake Shelton – the essay is less than 20 pages , and most of it is in this numbered format with a short conclusion at the end… can be read in 10 minutes and really hope you will read it as i am very interested in smart opinions and also WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE TOPICS DISCUSSED IN THIS ARTICLE!?:

    https://filebin.net/u2zjaom7z9ypvdmy

    here are the first 5 refutations (there are nearly 40):

    1. The theory of Charles Darwin is based on a rudimentary logical fallacy called Affirming the Consequent and Thomas Huxley admitted that Darwin’s theory was still only an unproved hypothesis.

    If Darwin’s Theory is true we should observe homology. We do observe Homology. Therefore, Darwin’s theory is true.47

    Thus, the modern appeal to atheistic evolution is an affirming the consequent fallacy. Why could not the reason for homology be special creation?

    1. Darwin’s theory is that all life evolved from a single organism through Spontaneous generation yet, Darwin himself admitted to the existence of God as a possible cause for homology, even after formulating his theory of Natural Selection.
    2. Given that Darwin admitted the possibility of Theistic Evolution which had already been fully developed and defended, the selection of his theory by the Scientific Community was a politically motivated machination. Not an act of conviction.

    3. Empiricism cannot produce any form of Taxonomy because in Aristotle genus is taken out of the category of substance.

    4. Darwin commits the reification fallacy from the start as he defines Natural Selection as a Metaphysical principle personified (“the aggregate action and product of many natural laws, and by laws the sequence of events as ascertained by us.”) Thus, we see what Darwin means by natural selection is a metaphysical entity behind the aggregate actions of all things in a given environment that give rise to profitable variations in a given species for their future evolution and the extermination of species who do not receive from the metaphysical entity the profitable variation. Yet Positivism/Empiricism does not allow for Metaphysics.


    read the whole essay , and the conclusions at the end …. explore the sources…

    imo , these intellectual trajectories and disputes MUST be dealt with by people who claim intellectual integrity and openness of mind , as well as claming to really want to leave a better world for those who come after us…

    don’t worry atheists , he also refutes the standard creationist arguments…

    i also highly recommend the works of Stephen C Meyer… his Hoover Institution interview with two leading atheists (one of them wrote The Devils Delusion for those who are familiar , and he admits Meyer MUST be wrestled with) is a great place to start… find it on yt . he has also authored a number of books with a new one set to be released in a couple few months… he has the neodarwinists on their back foot , absolutely ….

    deal with it and lets get some of these topics at the forefront of the discussions here on unz.com…

    i am interested in hearing replies , refutations , etc…

    thanks…

  132. Быть Русским-судьба, быть Украинцем-жадность.

    You should find a new handle to use in defining the relations between Ukrainians and Russians, as it’s too simplistic and at least as far a Ukrainians are concerned, not true and demeaning. Any Ukrainian that I know of is always ready to share his borshch and salo and dark bread with you. Also, they aren’t prone to trying to take back any “gifts” as Russians are, once already given. 🙂

  133. that Slavs first appeared on the scene in Ukraine from the Danuban basin area sometime in the 6th century

    Depends what you call appearing on the scene:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0

    The ones that you describe are probably:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0

    But they were already easily recognized by the IInd century AD. In fact they were probably the Antes that the Goths so easily conquered (Anty = Wends).

    Slavs have only become a force to be reckoned with under the Huns domination, when they joined the Huns to chase and destroy the Goths. The few words described by Greek historians as Hun are in fact Balto-Slavic. A couple of centuries later, the Slav were the main component of the Avar Khaganate, where Slav was the common language and which coincided with the Slav expansion to the South West. Of course, Slavs were also subjects of the Bulgarian Khaganate which formed the basis for the Slav statehood in the Balkans. Early Rus also served as a warrior class in the Khazar Khaganate. The earliest Cyrillic graffiti in the St Sophia in Kiev hail St Yaroslav the Wise as “Our Khagan”.

    TL;DR: Slavs are very ancient, they descend from the proto-Balto-Slavic Lusatian Culture through a clearly established succession of local Balto-Slavic cultures in modern day Eastern Europe (Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia) and their early statehood centers were often linked with Turkic Khaganates, where they formed a significant part of the settled population.

  134. Leftist kills Patriot Prayer Demonstrator in cold blood, during Denver demonstrations. The killer appears to have been employed as a security guard by the NBC affiliate in Denver.

  135. A very interesting comment. I will definitely spend some time reading the enclosed pdf file, as I’ve always been interested in cosmology. There is (or used to be) a special area here within the UNZ website dedicated to cosmological issues. Have you ever read Philip Johnson’s bold and succinct critique of Darwin entitled “Darwin on Trial”?

  136. I’ve based my ideas about the early Slav expansion on the works of the archaeologist, Florin Curtae. I’m enclosing a paper of his that contains the basic premise that he undoubtedly used to write his illuminating book “The Making of the Slavs: History and Archaeology of the Lower Danube Region, c.500–700”, that I’ve skimmed. The article “Pots Slavs and Imagined Communities: Slavic Archaeologies and the History of the Early Slavs” can be accessed here and covers a lot of the same terrain:

    https://www.academia.edu/229146/Pots_Slavs_and_imagined_communities_Slavic_archaeology_and_the_history_of_the_early_Slavs?auto=download

    Good stuff that I’m sure you’ll enjoy reading.

  137. AltanBakshi says

    Borshch is my favorite soup, a true king of the soups I say, with smetana of course.

  138. Thulean Friend says

    Meet the king of Thailand.

    https://i.imgur.com/JxM0ovu.jpg

  139. Besides smetana, Ukrainians often eat it with raw garlic cloves and fresh dark bread. As an American boy, living in the SouthWest, I often like to add some hot sauce or siracha or just plain dried chilis to a bowl for a different sort of “umami”. 🙂

  140. Sure, the king of Thailand may look like some bum off the streets, or the dissipated foot soldier of some drug lord from the Golden Triangle, but, then again, he didn’t make the mother of Stephen Lawrence a baroness, or sit on the sidelines, while his country was being endlessly invaded.

  141. Any good Russian horror movies? (Or from other countries?) My six favorite (non-Russian), so far:

    • Fright Night (1985)
    • The Howling (1981)

    Stay far away from the sequels of both movies listed above. Fright Night 2 (1988) actually has a black tranny vampire played by an actor who died of AIDS.
    -Train to Busan (2016)
    -Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)
    -Village of the Damned (1960) (a bit silly)
    -The Thing (1982) (quite gory)

    The guy who wrote the original story that The Thing was based on (Who Goes There?, 1938, John Campbell) was pretty based (at least before he went crazy) and used to tease Asimov about blacks. I think one can kind of see it in the psychology of the story, though the guy who wrote Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956) was not very based, IMO, and I think it kind of shows a little in the book. Not sure about John Wyndham who wrote The Midwich Cuckoos (1957), upon which Village of the Damned was based.

    I don’t like The Shining (1980) because it has a gay scene in it – should have been cut out.

  142. And that is why monarchies eventually end-up in a revolution. Not that whatever comes afterwards is any better.

  143. I am doubtful of anything a Vlakh could write about Slavs or Magyars and of course I would doubt anything Slavs and Magyars could write about Vlakhs. Actually, linguistic differences put apart, the three populations are connected by a long history and genetically have intermixed, but each pretends being the most important in their common region of settlement.

    If one wants to have the record straight about early Slav history, one would better read Rybakov. He has devoted his life to Slav / Rus studies and truly knew what he was talking about.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%8B%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

  144. The issue is not Darwin vs no Darwin. The issue is evolution (Dawkins’ blind watchmaker, if you need an image) vs creation (intelligent design). Biology, like other natural sciences, studies the reality, not what someone or other wrote about that reality.

    There are numerous facts that support evolution and cannot be explained by intelligent design, such as well-known repeat of our evolutionary history in embryonic development (including gill slits all mammals including humans have at a certain stage of their development in the womb, etc.), or numerous rudiments (say, our appendix, or points on top of our ears, etc.), but I would like to mention only two things creationists never explained satisfactorily.

    One, all living things on Earth have exactly the same genetic code. You put a piece of DNA encoding our protein into bacteria and it makes exactly the same protein that our cells make. Most wet-bench biologists use this without thinking, just like most of the US population watches TV without thinking how it works. We have 64 codons, out of which 3 are stop codons, and the other 61 encode amino acids. As we have a lot fewer amino acids, most are encoded by 2-6 different codons. Codon usage is somewhat different in eukaryotes and bacteria, but the meaning of each codon is exactly the same. How can one explain this without a hypothesis that all living things on Earth came from the same root?

    The second one is even trickier for creationists. Our cells contain two types of protein-making ribosomes: clunky, large and slow ones in the bulk of the cell (remarkably similar to the ribosomes in archaebacteria) and smaller much faster ones in mitochondria (remarkably similar to the ones in bacteria). What’s more, many proteins constituting faster and more efficient mitochondrial ribosomes are encoded by our cellular genome, not by a separate mitochondrial genome, made in the cytoplasm by slow ribosomes, and then imported into mitochondria. So, if anyone intelligent designed small and fast bacterial ribosome, why would our cells not use it everywhere, but use larger and slower ones in the cytoplasm, and better ones exclusively in mitochondria? Also, why would mitochondria have their own separate genome (remarkably similar to bacterial, only much smaller)?

  145. Sorry, after I insulted the Thai king, my device became buggy. I didn’t mean to recommend the horrible Troll movie. I meant to reply to my comment above and say this: in 2019, a subsidiary of Gazprom was set to finance an adaption of the Metro series, but I’m not sure where it stands now.

    Apparently, there was going to be an earlier adaption by Hollywood, but the author baulked when it was going to be set in DC, saying that it is a black city (which is essentially correct.) But I wonder if his general theme about xenophobia is still pozzed, even if he didn’t intend for.a direct analogy with blacks.

    BTW, has anyone played the games? Are they any good?

  146. AnonFromTN says

    Быть Русским-судьба, быть Украинцем-жадность.

    (For those who don’t read Russian, this means “being a Russian is fate, being a Ukrainian is greed”)

    I disagree. Russian is not an ethnicity, it’s a state of mind. Anyone trying to inject purely tribal meaning into Russianness denigrates Russia, bringing it to the level of post-coup Ukraine.

    Let me give some examples. Ethnic Ukrainian Oles Buzina, murdered in broad daylight on April 16, 2015, in Kiev by Ukies (nobody was punished for this murder to this day) was a Russian. Ethnic Ukrainian Rostislav Ishchenko, who ran away to Russia to avoid suffering the same fate as Buzina, is a Russian. On the other end of the spectrum, ethnic Russians Gorbachev and Navalny are not Russians, but pieces of shit.

    An old Donbass lady expressed it well on live TV: “we are Russians, but khokhols, they are Russians, but katsaps”. Hard to add anything to that summary.

  147. anonymous coward says

    …such as well-known repeat of our evolutionary history in embryonic development

    Wow, just wow. Two points:

    a) It is bullshit and a complete fabrication. There is no such repeat.

    b) Even if there was, how in hell does that prove natural selection and random mutation?? Sounds like an egregious case of magical animist thinking of the basest, Africa-nigger-tier kind. I suppose the idea is that the pantheist life-force of evolution is somehow reflecting in the life-force of embryonic development? In any case, muddle-headed bullshit of the highest order.

  148. AnonFromTN says

    It is always illuminating to hear from woefully ignorant people. Keep posting. Also, post something about the two main points I focused on. I’ve never had someone knowing nothing about biology express his/her/its views on those things.

  149. Thulean Friend says

    Moscow metro to introduce facial payment system as early as spring 2021.

    Likely to be world-first if they roll it out as fast as they plan to. I personally don’t see the point of whining about privacy in this instance. The authorities already know who you are to a T.

    Though I can see an issue further down the line if it is introduced to all our electronic devices as mandatory. Either way, Moscow seems like a country-within-a-country to me. To a much greater extent than other capital cities in other countries.

  150. Ethnic Ukrainian Oles Buzina, murdered in broad daylight on April 16, 2015, in Kiev by Ukies (nobody was punished for this murder to this day) was a Russian. Ethnic Ukrainian Rostislav Ishchenko, who ran away to Russia to avoid suffering the same fate as Buzina, is a Russian.

    And this is why being Russian is faith…

    I disagree. Russian is not an ethnicity, it’s a state of mind.

    Exactly, a state of mind defined by faith (or karma if one preferred).

  151. Moscow is indeed the equivalent of a whole province. It accounts for 10% of the Russian population.

  152. Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive says

    The “ambitions” of Russians limit themselves to being able to protect their countrymen abroad. Which were, are, or will be in the process of being cleansed thanks to communist border gore.

    The Ukrainians do not have territorial ambitions because those have already been met by communist border gone.
    Its primary concern is keeping its diverse ethnic coalition of Center, West, East Ukrainians together. Any more “territorial ambitions” would only mean more groups to integrate or ethnically cleanse (if they’re Russian).

    Such a small line, and already so full of propaganda and malice.

  153. Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive says

    I find Russian “boomers” incapable of understanding “bad but my own/good but foreign”. And this regardless of political orientation. If someone is cool, then he must be one of us. A shame all other ethnic groups think differently.
    https://youtu.be/-CkxoeAByKk

  154. Belarusian Dude says

    I believe Gertruda isnt a constructed name but the Russified import of Gertrude, though I may be wrong

  155. Geroy Truda = Gertruda.

  156. AnonFromTN says

    If someone is cool, then he must be one of us.

    I lived in the USSR for 33 years, the last 16 in Russia proper, and I know quite a few Russians in the US. Russians I knew and know now had and have different political views, but I don’t know anyone who fits your description.

    I know that in official Ukrainian propaganda everyone who achieved anything is called Ukrainian, like Russian writer Gogol, Russian rocket designer Korolev, Russian airplane designer Antonov, Armenian painter Aivazovsky (in reality – Aivazian), etc. But even Ukrainian populace makes fun of these silly childish claims: there are Ukrainian jokes that Adam and Eve were Ukrainian, as well as the dinosaurs.

    Were you ever in Russia? Do you know any Russians personally (I don’t mean Russian Jews)? Could you name an example illustrating your outlandish claim?

  157. havent read or heard of it but i have it now…

    thanks!

    unz still wont post it on the original article…

    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  158. don’t have answers to your questions…

    did you read the whole Shelton essay ?

    and why won’t unz post this comment in the original article ?

  159. AnonFromTN says

    To answer your questions:

    I never read Shelton’s assay and don’t intend to. I don’t need someone else’s take on biology. I work in biomedical research since 1978, with enough experience of my own in biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, etc., to have informed views.

    I am not responsible for this site. However, from reading it for more than two years I know that there are quite a few anti-evolution writers and posters here, almost as many as Hitler fan boys/girls.

  160. Philip Owen says

    IF they want to stay independent, they need self sustaining economies.

  161. I am doubtful of anything a Vlakh could write about Slavs or Magyars and of course I would doubt anything Slavs and Magyars could write about Vlakhs.

    This seems like a very close minded approach to studying history (or anything at all for that matter). I guess being an American has helped to insulate me from any approach like this. I can assure you that Curtae’s thesis and approach seems to be quite sane and based a lot on sound archaeological evidence. Also, he does an excellent job of reviewing other approaches and theories too as to the origin of the Slavs. The article that I provided you isn’t all that long and wont cost you a lot of your time. I realize that most Romanian historians of the past were questionable in their approach and biased in favor of their Romanian dogmas, but Curtae seems above that kind of thing. I really thought that you’d enjoy reading some of his stuff…and am a bit disappointed that you haven’t and have exposed a bit of your own irrationality. 🙁

  162. If anything, Curtae has probably garnered the condemnation of some of his fellow Romanian historians, by assigning a lot more weight to the importance of the Slavic cultural footprint left behind in Romania. He often proves that villages thought to have Thracian or other origins were instead of Slavic origin, a lot of villages. This was once a part of Romanian history that in the past was deemphasized or blatantly covered up.

  163. Of course I am quite irrational at times and frankly do intend on keeping this slight touch of irrationality. It is one of the things that makes us human.

    I will read the article that you have linked. But I want to emphasize that my own views on the evolution of (proto) Slav cultures are pretty straightforward: Corded Ware, Unetice, Mierzanowice culture, Trzciniec culture, Lusatian culture (proto Balto-Slavic), Zarubinets culture (Balto-Slav), Cherniakhov culture (Slavs under Goths), Penkovskaya culture (historical Slavs). The latter is the one that Curtae probably describes in his essay.

    People talk about Slavs appearing in the VI century as if hatched from some eggs or grown like mushrooms in some Poles’ye forest. This is nonsense. Would anyone write anything similar about other European populations? Even the Gypsies are well attested as originating from some North Indian lower cast nomad artist tribe. But Slavs just appear out of the blue and occupy two thirds of Europe.

    Thing is, if they recognize the historical Slav filiation, they will have to admit that A) Slavs are aboriginal people of Eastern and Central Europe up to present day Germany and even Netherlands B) the Bell Beaker ancestors of Western Europeans and Vlakhs committed a genocide against the ancestors of Slavs, massacred their male population, took their females and stole their languages. Doesn’t appear quite right, does it?

    So that is why they keep on making round and surprised eyes when we talk about Balto-Slavs being there in Europe before Roman Empire, before Celtic expansion, before even the Bell Beaker takeover of Western Europe.

    And that is why, whatever they write I just laugh…

  164. Gerard1234 says

    You heard the claims that Genghis Khan was a “Ukrainian”, according to some of their “enlightened” academia?

    N.B. This is not a joke

  165. This is something I absolutely agree with. Neither Slav nor Vlakh population is ethnically homogeneous. Slavs and Vlakhs have extensively intermixed, especially in modern day Balkans, Bukovina and Moldova. All in all, after the defeat of the Dacians and Getae (not to mix with Goths) the remnants of these populations migrated north to flee the Roman domination and intermixed with the Balto-Slavic populations. And when the Slavs migrated south-west under the Hun and Avar patronage, they also intermixed with the Vlakhs.

    Vlakhs is the Slav exonyme for anyone of Celtic Romanized origin. The Germans called the Romanized Celts Welshe, hence the Welsh in Great Britain named that way by the Saxons. Vlakh = Welshe.

    And the name Rus or Ross is attested among the modern Ukraine populations since the Scythian times. Those same Scythians who later intermixed with Slavs and also acculturated into Turks further East in Central Asia. Those Scythians to whom even Greeks recognized outstanding philosophers and a quite efficient if simple social organization. So how and why should we simply believe that Slavs appeared and Rus were Vikings ?

    Just because some Bell Beaker descended Nemchik ot Vlakh told us so?

    No way…

  166. But even Ukrainian populace makes fun of these silly childish claims: there are Ukrainian jokes that Adam and Eve were Ukrainian, as well as the dinosaurs.

    I’ve run into some Albanians with that mindset relative to themselves.

  167. AnonFromTN says

    Genghis Khan was a “Ukrainian”, according to some of their “enlightened” academia?

    I am not surprised. Official Ukrainian propaganda is beyond joke. It is madhouse, pure and simple.

  168. Philip Owen says

    Varm

  169. Also, schwul, not to be confused with schwül (humid), but deriving from the same.

    I like the term “wieblich”, as it is not slang.

  170. I think Steve Sailer is right in pushing back against the Tiger Woods narrative. Tiger Woods is mostly a product of the Asian tiger mom phenomenon. In any case he’s very far from the average black person, much further than the typical professional white golfer is from the average white. And although one-drop rule blacks like to claim him as their own, I suspect Tiger Woods’ impact on the prospect of pursuing golf is higher towards Asians than it has been with blacks(though I obviously can’t prove this).

    Speaking of Sailer, he has often pointed out the phenomenon of black high schools being unable to find blacks to fill the position of kicker in American football. I think the reason is because it’s considered an unmanly skill. I had that in mind when I suggested lack of popularity for tennis being a factor among black males. That stigma doesn’t exist with racing. None of this means we couldn’t soon have a major black tennis champion of course.

  171. Blinky Bill says
  172. anonymous coward says

    I don’t have to reply to you, because you don’t even understand what “evolution” is.

    Nothing you wrote has anything to do with natural selection or random mutation.

  173. How many of the readers here believe that the situation in the US will become more orderly and peaceful after the presidential election?

    I personally think that the level of social fragmentation and increased acceptance of political violence doesn’t bode well for American democracy.

    Although I don’t know American society well enough, having only been in the US a few times in a few locations that probably do not represent the diversity of the country, I have a strong impression that the author of the article below might unfortunately be right about the evolution of the USA.

    [….] prediction for what will happen to the US is that it will eventually split up along racial and political lines. Already, there is hardly any “union” to assess the state of. Further, all signs now indicate that this is not going to be a peaceful process. The Left began the violence, and they have now succeeded in pushing a whopping 36% of conservatives to approve of answering violence with violence.

    Some of my readers will greet these claims with skepticism. Average Americans find it impossible to imagine their country disintegrating in violent conflict. This is the result of years of propaganda about the “stability” of our Republic, the “miracle” of our peaceful transfer of power every four years, yada yada. Average Americans are bizarrely oblivious to just how violent this country really is and always has been (something that has not escaped the notice of the rest of the world): sky-high rates of murder, rape, and assault; urban riots every few years; the assassination of political figures; regular “spree killings”; and a civil war that claimed the lives of around 700 thousand people. Average folks may not want to think about it, but a second civil war is quite plausible

    https://counter-currents.com/2020/10/yes-we-are-headed-for-violent-civil-war/

    Any proof to the contrary?

  174. Now this is a much better reply.

    Where can I read more about your “straightforward” approach to understanding the evolution of the Slav expansion into Europe? Would reading something by Rybakov be good starting place? Bear in mind that my ability to read complex material in Russian requires a lot more effort than in English.

    And the name Rus or Ross is attested among the modern Ukraine populations since the Scythian times..So how and why should we simply believe that Slavs appeared and Rus were Vikings ?
    .

    This sound a bit like the ideas put forth by George Vernadsky in his monograph about the early Rus (Rhoss) “The Origins of Early Russia”. His “controversial” thesis stood in direct contrast to the prevailing Normanist ideas, and included that the “Rus” or “Rhoss” actually began their migration into Ukrainian and South Russian lands from an eastern approach giving Tmutorakan an important place within this scheme of history.

  175. https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsmith/2020/10/05/fbi-background-checks-for-gun-sales-have-hit-an-annual-record-already-fueled-by-covid-19/#2f2dd02a5360

    If the Dems do a triple sweep, the sporting goods stores and gun dealers will be stripped clean. It is already difficult to get some kinds of ammo and some firearms.

    Will it happen? I don’t think it will, but if you go back to our last civil war and read the literature, almost no one, North or South thought that “it” would actually happen. Also, the fire-eaters worked to silence the abolitionists by violence and censorship, just like the woke are taking after the un-woke today.

    Remember: “Things are in the saddle, And ride mankind.”― Ralph Waldo Emerson

  176. Gerard1234 says

    Russian tv did afew reports last year about Zelensky’s doppleganger. Naturally, he is an uzbek

    Although, forgetting about Zelensky, most Arab terrorists in Hollywood films are played by jews, Eli Wallach the main dirty hispanic was a jew, Dr.No , a chinese character, acted by a jew ( I think)

  177. Personally, I think that 99% of the violence and unrest seen in the US has been a result of “Deep State” interests in removing Trump from office. I’ve never seen such wholesale biased efforts directed against a standing president by the press as I have against Trump. Last night I watched a segment on 60 Minutes that totally tried to eviscerate Trump’s abilities to rid himself of his recent bout with Covid. Unless lightning strikes twice and Trump is reelected, the Democratic takeover of the Whitehouse spells complete doom to any unrest. Biden/Harris are of course the friends of the underclass and represent the interests of Antifa and BLM right? If lightning does strike twice, it might be a different story. After all, wasn’t the violence always just another tool in the toolbox used to help remove Trump from office?

  178. Some small truth to this but a lot of exaggeration.

    How many of the readers here believe that the situation in the US will become more orderly and peaceful after the presidential election?

    I personally think that the level of social fragmentation and increased acceptance of political violence doesn’t bode well for American democracy.

    It was much worse in the 1960s and 1970s. And unlike then, America has fewer young people running around. Young people tend to be revolutionary troublemakers more than older ones with jobs.

    But it is worse n0w than in the “Golden Age” of the 90s when the Cold War was won and China had not yet risen.

    The Left began the violence, and they have now succeeded in pushing a whopping 36% of conservatives to approve of answering violence with violence.

    How is this worded, exactly? The idea that people have the right to shoot looters does not seem extreme.

    Average Americans are bizarrely oblivious to just how violent this country really is and always has been (something that has not escaped the notice of the rest of the world): sky-high rates of murder, rape, and assault;

    America’s homicide rate of 4.96 is high by Western European standards but low by global standards (and lower than the homicide rates of Russia and Ukraine).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    America has a large non-European population, who are more violent than Europeans but who are also more docile within the USA than in comparable areas. European Americans are more violent than average Europeans (they area about as violent as Eastern Europeans), but African and Latino Americans are more peaceful than most people in Latin America, the Caribbean or parts of Africa. European-American homicide rate of ~3.5 is between that of Hungary (2.5) and Latvia (4.5). African-American homicide rate of ~18 is a lot lower than Jamaica (43.85), South Africa (36.40), Bahamas (30.90), Brazil (27.38) but higher than in most of western Africa (Central African Republic is 19.76 but Nigeria is only 9.85).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#/media/File:USA_Homicide_Offending_Rates_By_Race.png

    urban riots every few years;

    These also occur in France, Russia, etc. American urban riots were worse in the 1960s.

    regular “spree killings”;

    See data on homicide rates. Mass spree killings, though terrible, are rare anywhere in the world. If America has more of them than do other countries, it is like the odds of being struck y lightning are double those in the USA versus in some other country. It’s still an extremely rare event.

    and a civil war that claimed the lives of around 700 thousand people.

    That was about 150 years ago.

  179. I read Curtae yesterday and frankly was not been impressed at all. His article is basically an application of the “critical theory ” to Slavic history studies. He basically wrote that nobody knows what ancient Slavs were before VI century AD and that all the discussions around that question were ripe with political propaganda and all kinds of manipulation by every party involved.

    This is exactly what I expected from a Vlakh historian: “Slavs, what Slavs? Anyway everyone is lying about them existing in the ancient times!”.

    This Romanian-American professor is so predictable.

    Where can I read more about your “straightforward” approach to understanding the evolution of the Slav expansion into Europe?

    That’s an interesting question because it shows two things: A) you think there was a Slav expansion B) you still think Slavs “appeared ” on the European territory somehow. And this question betrays you as being a thoroughly American minded person. Only Americans can seriously believe that a whole civilization, already divided into two distinct regional groups: Anty and Sklaveny could appear at once and settle the main part of the Central and Eastern Europe in a matter of a couple of generations.

    Mr Hack, people do not “appear“, unless they are a completely artificial American nation, people “evolve” from previous populations through admixture, conquest, submission to invaders or control upon the conquered cultures.

    The ancestors of the Slavs have been in Europe proper before the Bronze Age, quite unlike the Bell Beaker ancestors of the majority of the modern day Western Europeans.

    I suggest you start reading about Y haplogroup R1a which is the main Y haplogroup of the Slavic, Central Asian Turk and Indian higher caste populations.

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

    Then read about Corded Ware Culture which is the ancestral culture to all European Balto-Slavic cultures that followed:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    Then read about the other Y haplogroup R1a dominant cultures such as Sintashta Arkaim (proto Aryan):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintashta_culture

    Srubnaya culture :

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srubnaya_culture

    And specifically for the Balto-Slavic people follow up the chain of cultures starting with

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sredny_Stog_culture

    Notice that Sredny Stog is actually possibly even more ancient than Corded Ware culture.

    If you read Russian I would suggest this book:

    https://bookz.ru/authors/anatolii-klesov/proishoj_049.html

    Otherwise I think that you will have to follow the Y haplogroup R1a White Rabbit down the hole of the internet to find where the Slav history really starts.

    “Rus” or “Rhoss” actually began their migration into Ukrainian and South Russian lands from an eastern approach giving Tmutorakan an important place within this scheme of history.

    It is quite possible that Rus/Ross/Rhoss people were a subgroup of either Scythian remnants or Balto-Slavic Wends. The Rossoman are described in the modern day Ukraine during the early migration age where they were allied to Huns in their wars against Goths. Also the Iranian Rox-Alans are described in the Kuban area at the time. So basically we have three possible options, none of which is Viking.

  180. A Russian saying sums it up:

    Быть Русским-судьба, быть Украинцем-жадность.

    Interesting example of Great Russian projection and self-justification, very worthy of BLM.*

    Surely it was therefore not “greed” but “destiny” that the proto-Russian Suzdalian prince Bogolubsky led a coalition that sacked, looted and plundered Kiev as the Crusaders did to Constantinople, and stole its rich icons that remain in Russia today.

    People of Ukraine wanting to control their own lands politically, and not having them be controlled by Moscow (be it the 17th century, 1709, 1918, 1991) – “greed.” People of Russia imposing their rule – “destiny.”

    People of Little Russia/Ukraine not wanting their own lands garrisoned by Great Russian troops and populated by incoming Great Russian immigrants – “greed.” Forcing soldiers and colonists into Ukraine – “destiny.”

    People of Little Russia-Ukraine demanding their own Church like almost every other country has – “greed.” Great Russians persecuting local Churches in Ukraine and imposing their own Church upon the place – “destiny.”

    Little Russians wanting to develop and educate their children in their own local language – “greed.” Great Russian state banning Little Russian speech in print and performance and exiling its developers, while imposing the Great Russian speech upon the Little Russians – “destiny.”

    Ukrainian peasants hiding grain to feed their starving children in the 1930s – “greed.” Mostly Russian and Jewish Bolsheviks working for government in Moscow stealing that grain to promote industrialization in mostly Russian-inhabited areas while millions of Ukrainians starved to death – “destiny.”

    Ukraine holding Crimea (a territory where Russians did not even become a majority until they expelled the native Tatars in the 1940s) for 25 years – “greed.” Russia holding all of Ukraine for centuries – “destiny.”

    To the degree that such attitudes are commonplace in Russia, it is a very good thing that Ukraine is not part of Russia now and is in a separate state from its greedy “destiny-fulfilling” Russian brothers.

    Of course the same game can be played by others. Mongol invasion of Rus – not greed, but destiny. Mid-century German designs upon the Slavs and their lands? Not greed, but destiny. Etc.

    *American store owners holding on to their goods, American people not wanting to be taxed excessively – “greed.” Looting and redistributing what was stolen into their own pockets by certain members of minority communities- “the right side of history.”

  181. The first part of your post seems to be solid but this part is more questionable:

    It is quite possible that Rus/Ross/Rhoss people were a subgroup of either Scythian remnants or Balto-Slavic Wends. The Rossoman are described in the modern day Ukraine during the early migration age where they were allied to Huns in their wars against Goths. Also the Iranian Rox-Alans are described in the Kuban area at the time. So basically we have three possible options, none of which is Viking.

    In our earlier discussion, a plausible scenario emerged that the Rus were not simply Scandinavians as the Normanists claimed but a mixed hybrid group of Scandinavians and Wendish Slavs, led by a Scandinavian family. The Rurikids themselves did not carry the R1A haplogroup (other than the Chernihiv branch, the result of cuckoldry) but the Finnic N1c1 haplogroup, specifically one that is common among people in a region called Roslagen north of Stockholm :

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rurikid/about/background

    The project began in 2006 when practically no one knew from whom and from where the Rurikid princes came from. It was also unclear whether the Rurikid princes were descended from a single male. The Russian Newsweek Magazine tested the first prince (Professor Dmitri Shahovskoy of France) who was found to belong to the N1c1 genetic haplogroup. The Russian Newsweek had later confirmed his result by testing two other princes, namely Prince Andrei Gagarin of Russia and Prince Nikita Lobanov-Rostovsky of Great Britain. Many new tests have been performed in this project. Although some of the princes do not share the N1c1 hapologroup, by all means we can now say that the N1c1 haplogroup was shared at least by Prince Svatoslav Igorevich (father of St. Vladimir the Great of Kiev, and the grandson of Rurik). All of the N1c1 Rurikid princes’ haploptypes begin with (the FTDNA’s standard) 14 23 14 11 11 13 11 12 10 x 14 x 18 9 9

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rurikid/about/results

    Detailed results have also been displayed on http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/teksty/ydna.html . It was found that Rurik was of Varangian origin (a sub-branch in the N1c1 genetic haplogroup). Since his genetic haplotype, that can be anticipated from more than 10 results of modern Rurikid princes, best matches one of the haplotypes of the Swedes, one may eventually conclude that he was of Swedish descent. From some historical sources it follows that he was born in Sweden on the Roslagen seashore (north of Stockholm),or, eventually, somewhere on the way from Uppsala to Birka. There have been several indirect proofs that people in this region were called Rhos(s) in the Middle Ages. This word is pronounced “roos” in Swedish, which sounds like Russia today. Probably the Finnish word “Ruotsi” (Sweden) also comes from this word.

    http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/teksty/ydna.html

    Thanks to this, i.e. Rurikid project, we can now say that Rurik was a historical person who was born on the Roslagen seashore (slightly north of Stockholm, Sweden). However, he was of Finno-Ugrian descent (haplogroup N1c1 (earlier described as N3a)). Although all of well matching N1c1 Rurikid princes are descended from Yaroslav Mudry (978 – 1054), it seems that his ancestors including Rurik (b. ab. 820 – 876) himself, also belonged to this haplogroup. A group of Swedes, whose ancestors lived in or close to Uppsala, and whose genetic haplotypes are very close to these of the Rurikids, seems to be confirming the theory that Rurik, in fact, originated from Sweden.

    As we had discussed earlier, the names of the particular Rus on the treaty with Constantinople from 911 were about half Slavic and half Norse:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27%E2%80%93Byzantine_Treaty_(911)

    The treaty opens with a lengthy enumeration of the Rus’ envoys, whose names are of mixed origin: Karla, Inegeld, Farlof, Veremud, Ruslav, Hudy, Ruald, Karn, Frelav, Ruar, Actev, Troyan, Lidul, Fost, Stemid/Stemir.

  182. A lot to chew on here, but I’ve always enjoyed a good thick steak! 🙂

  183. That article is hysterical, partisan nonsense. I am willing to be persuaded that something I think unlikely(a civil war) will happen, but this article hardly accomplishes that.

    What reason is there to think what people answer in polls matters much to the state of a country? I also see no reason that any of the author’s claims about white secession or whites banding together are likely to happen. White people are the least unified people in the United States, miscegenation is more common than in the past, and only black people, the most incompetent of the races, have a strong sense of racial identity. Whites are also the oldest group in the United States. The author’s listed reasons for the likelihood of a civil war are pathetically weak.

    Besides, Americans are soft. Haven’t you noticed there have been very few deaths during all of the rioting. Americans are not that good at violence any more, and it’s very easy to distract them. If things get out of hand, the state can simply start another war overseas and conservative dipshits will cheer it on.

    All of the large corporations, the branches of government and military, both political parties, famous people, and probably most Americans support the idea of anti-racism, equality, and other forms of soft communism. In other words, there is no organized opposition to carry out Jef Costello’s fantasies.

    So what exactly is there to fight about? National election circuses, or differences in degrees or tactics? No major blocks actually disagree on the fundamental premises. In the first American Civil War, people actually disagreed about questions such as who had the right to vote, which people born in the United States were citizens, what the role of federal government is, and more importantly were willing to hold hard to these views. That is not the case today. People today believe things they didn’t believe one year ago, all because the media tells them what to think, and most people are simply not impacted by the types of things right wingers write about.

    A better prediction is that the U.S. will continue to become more woke in the coming years, and conservatives will obey like lambs. If there is ever a revolt against wokeism, it will probably come from the left. Most of actual wokeism is leftists fighting it out with other leftists for control. None of the academic battles for example have much to do with the right, it’s all leftists cancelling each other. Conservatives are barely affected by any of this. Step away from the television, and let the leftists devour their own children.

    It is true that the U.S. is more polarized, but it is also true that the U.S. is more atomized and sissified.

  184. According to IQAir
    https://www.iqair.cn/cn-en/ukraine/kyiv
    Ukrainian capital Kiev had the second-worst (most polluted) air among world cities (US AQI 132, unhealthy for sensitive groups). Not surprisingly, the worst air quality was in Indian capital Dehli (AQI 184). #3 was Pakistani Lahor (AQI 127).

    So, maybe CNN journos who placed Ukraine somewhere in Pakistan on live TV weren’t as far from the truth as the people familiar with geography thought.

  185. Blinky Bill says

    The greatest sin of the Filipino people is their forgiving nature.

    https://youtu.be/y8k3NYNurmM

    https://youtu.be/c7gDBVmgIRA

  186. AltanBakshi says

    Ano4 AP as an Uniate is a master of Jesuitry, one gains nothing, nor is closer to the truth by arguing with him. Like one time when he compared Ukraines possible geopolitical situation with cold War Austria, but forgetting tactically that Yugoslavia was not a Warsaw pact country.

    Or that the Suzdalians wars with other Rus principalities were anyhow qualitatively different case than the warring between Italian or German polities in the Middle Ages. Or that Ukrainians had a collective identity in the 18th Century, yes yes people of the Ukraine proper had, for a sometime, but Siveria , Sloboda Ukraine Donbass had a different narrative of their history in the 18th Century, and there were even in the Ukraine proper many and numerous people who were thankful that their ruler was an Orthodox Czar and not a Catholic king, but as always with the AP he chooses one narrative among the many that existed among the Ukrainians and the people of the Southern Rus, and showcases it as definite and hegemonic among the Ukrainians of the past. Strangely I do respect nowadays Mr. Hack much more, he seems to be sincere, but AP is straight from the Jesuit Academy!

    Yes, yes I have changed my opinion on Ukraine. If people there want to be independent, let them be, I hope them success, let them even succeed in joining the EU, but I would never agree them joining Nato!

    By the way some people claim and even the Natos articles say that Nato will not take countries which have territorial disputes but Latvia had and Estonia has border disputes with Russia, so what’s the truth?

  187. Daniel Chieh says

    No ammo left to steal for most rifle and handgun calibers, 2-3 month backlog. Its going to be a civil war with a lot of shotguns and birdshot, I guess.

  188. According to IQAir
    https://www.iqair.cn/cn-en/ukraine/kyiv
    Ukrainian capital Kiev had the second-worst (most polluted) air among world cities (US AQI 132, unhealthy for sensitive groups). Not surprisingly, the worst air quality was in Indian capital Dehli (AQI 184). #3 was Pakistani Lahor (AQI 127).

    You do realize that this is for a single day (from the website, two days earlier it had been 88). As I type it is ranked #18 worst:

    https://www.iqair.com/us/world-air-quality-ranking

    In Europe Skpoje in Macedonia is worse.

  189. AltanBakshi says

    That’s the way how my mother eats Borshch, but hot sauce in Borshch sounds blasphemous to me, maybe just raw Thai red chili would be better, hot sauces often contain vinegar, which doesn’t work with smetana. Shchi is okay too, not so good of course, but I don’t know how bad quality Shchi you have eaten if it was watery, good Shchi is not watery at all.
    For a long time I didn’t like Soljanka, but the fault was not in the soup in itself but in the bad cookers and low quality ingredients. I mean the Soljanka that you can get from a Russian Stolovayas or trains etc, its not good at all. I even thought that Soljanka is a perverse soup, like who the hell puts pickles, olives, brine and sausage in a soup? But after I ate a well made Soljanka my opinion changed and it can be very tasty, almost as tasty as Borshch.

    In Hohhot, China, I ate a Chinese version of Borshch, which had tomatoes instead of beetroot, it was okay, but nothing special.

  190. Stamina is very important in mens tennis.

  191. AnonFromTN says

    so what’s the truth?

    In the USSR in the 1980s we had a saying: “don’t look for the truth where there is none”. This applies to everything the Empire promotes, including NATO.

  192. Carlson picks his fights, China is not an issue that matters much, especially since it is largely justified a trade dispute, compared to immigration or wars in MENA.

  193. The “hot sauce” that I usually add to my borshch is a Vietnamese concoction (made in California) called “Chili Garlic Sauce”, it doesn’t seem to have much vinegar in it. Of course when I was a kid, these hot sauces were not very well known, so I would just take a dried chili pepper and crush it up finely and added it in for the right zest – there’s no reason that a fresh chili pepper wouldn’t work equally well.

    I’ll be honest, I’ve never tried Russian shchi, but have only read about it and never once has anybody had anything really good to write about it. I grew up on borshch and “kapusniak” that is a rather rich cabbage soup that really tastes quite good. Perhaps, you’ve tried both and can make a fair comparison?

    Be careful with the soljanka. I had a big bowl of it recently and the next day my blood pressure measurement almost went off the charts (its full of salt, of course). I’m trying very hard to lower my blood pressure stats, recently reading in at 135/72. After I had the soljanka, my measurements measured 182/90, a measurement I hadn’t seen for close to a year!

    BTW, you do realize that a good red borshch always includes some sort of tomato element into the mix?

  194. Ano4 AP as an Uniate is a master of Jesuitry, one gains nothing, nor is closer to the truth by arguing with him.

    Translation: in our arguments you are often wrong but don’t like to admit it. As for “Jesuitry”, let’s look at just how you dishonestly present what I wrote:

    Like one time when he compared Ukraines possible geopolitical situation with cold War Austria, but forgetting tactically that Yugoslavia was not a Warsaw pact country.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/karabakh-war-2020/#comment-4206459

    You wrote, in case Belarus and Russia unite:

    “What then if Belarus will be integrated with Russia? Then Ukraine would be a like a caterpillar midst of Russian lands”

    I responded: “A bit like Austria during the Cold War, though more extreme. ”

    Perhaps a map can remind you. You see, Austria’s position vis a vis Czechoslovakia and Hungary make it somewhat comparable to Ukraine’s if Belarus and Russia unite; Vienna was no less vulnerable than Kiev:

    https://i.redd.it/1w231no1qssx.jpg

    I was completely accurate in my description. I would indeed be “a bit like Austria during the Cold War, but more extreme.” Your presentation of what I wrote was a dishonest one. As can be expected, of any Soviet apologist.

    Or that the Suzdalians wars with other Rus principalities were anyhow qualitatively different case than the warring between Italian or German polities in the Middle Ages

    Irrelevent if it was or was not. How about wars between Denmark and Sweden?

    and there were even in the Ukraine proper many and numerous people who were thankful that their ruler was an Orthodox Czar and not a Catholic king

    There were also many members of the Communist Party in Poland during the Cold War. Some of whom were sincere. And?

    AP he chooses one narrative among the many that existed among the Ukrainians and the people of the Southern Rus, and showcases it as definite and hegemonic among the Ukrainians of the past

    Cite examples of when I have done so.

    Yes, yes I have changed my opinion on Ukraine. If people there want to be independent, let them be, I hope them success, let them even succeed in joining the EU, but I would never agree them joining Nato!

    A reasonable approach, at least.

    By the way some people claim and even the Natos articles say that Nato will not take countries which have territorial disputes but Latvia had and Estonia has border disputes with Russia, so what’s the truth?

    NATO pursues policies that it views as being good for NATO. Principles such as “no territorial disputes” will probably not stand in the way of that. It’s why the childish hope by some that a territorial dispute over Crimea or Donbas will keep NATO out of Ukraine if NATO wants Ukraine are just silly. At the moment NATO does not want really Ukraine so Crimean and Donbas situations ae convenient for it, but if it did, an excuse would be found to allow Ukraine in despite trouble with Crimea or Donbas.

  195. Worse things are coming down the pike. Passed through a small New England town of about 3500 a while back. Over 100 miles away from Boston – very, very rural. Saw three Africans – different from the ones I saw there previously.

    I kid you not – the first looked exactly like he had just spat out his khat and set down his AK-47, after doing a few years in the Lord’s Resistance Army, or some other African youth organization. (I don’t mean he looked tough – or like someone in an old photograph – I mean he absolutely looked like a cold-blooded killer) And he was with a young white women – I hope he was just her simp, helping her move apartments or something.

    I believe the African woman I saw was pregnant (generally the case.) A second man was lurking in the shadows of some business on the edge of town, where the buildings are spaced far apart and it takes real talent to lurch against one of them, on a cold morning, in the shadows. Naturally, he had his hood drawn.

    To state the obvious, these weren’t people that came in boats. They were flown in direct to a white state, by design, to bring diversity to the farthest reaches, and transform even the coldest, most rural parts of it.

  196. AltanBakshi says

    I have never cooked myself borshch, but I know that it has often one or two peeled tomatoes or tomato paste, but the Chinese version had as much tomato as normal borshch has beetroot! And not peeled.

    I have low blood pressure, but I haven’t thought about the salinity of the Solyanka before, still I eat it rarely, so I don’t believe that I will get something negative from it.

    Kapusniak? Never heard of it before, maybe its similar to a good Shchi?

    But I must say that Russian and Ukrainian food is okay, but the soups are the crown jewel of Slavic cooking, there are couple other foods, but the rest of the Slavic cooking is not so special for me, I am more of a fan of Asian cooking, Thai, Mongolian, Uzbek, Korean, of course not Japanese cuisine, which is just horrible and unedible.
    Hey our Sikh Bhai I like Northern Indian food… oh Palak Paneer and Butter Chicken, Aloo Gobi and all the wonderful raitas. Southern Indian cuisine is terrible and just doesn’t make sense, all that sour rice dough and strange sauces everywhere. It’s only cuisine in the world that always gives me stomach ache.

    Tibetans by the way make excellent soups too, their Thukpa and Thenduk are wonderful, still the Borshch is the Czar of the soups.

  197. Gerard1234 says

    America’s homicide rate of 4.96 is high by Western European standards but low by global standards (and lower than the homicide rates of Russia and Ukraine).

    LOL, in your desire to say any BS, as typical of the troll you are…you invent further BS so to justify the other attention-seeking BS.
    The only correct issue to judge it on?….. crime in relation to wealth you idiot. If not thought of like that then the people of Addis Ababa would be congratulating themselves on there being less Lamborghini thefts there compared to a rich suburb in Florida or California, going by your false cretinous logic.

    The absolute truth is that Russia if it had the same levels of wealth as the US would have a small fraction of the murder rate.Now, they are practically the same despite obvious reasons in addition to wealth as why Russia should be much bigger in homicide rate but is not .This has been proved by the last decade in Russia compared to the last 50 years in America. In Russia the homicide rate massively decreases in last 10 -15 years as wealth and prosperity has increased . In US it has been abnormally higher than the rest of the white western world for over 50 years…….and has only gone down slightly in the last 10 years ( still much higher than western Europe) probably only because of the internet keeping loser wackjobs like you off the street to commit any crimes, and not because of great collective morality being acquired in US society. It has gone down much slower than the large-scale mafia influence/control in America took to go away ( the large-scale influence for so many decades in the richest country in the world being another embarassing truth when trash like you tries to attempt any “moral” arguments) . All of EU europe has below 1 or even near zero homicide rate .Countries with more leniant laws on gun use than America don’t even have 1/1000th of the gun criminality that is there. Kazan where I’m from must be about a million times safer now compared to any US city of similar size or relative economic/industrial importance.

    That was about 150 years ago

    LOL. American Civil war was about 150 years ago …in what was by then the richest state on the planet, had no ethnic or territorial argument as driving force behind the war starting, or reasons for war on natural resources in that territory, or could claim any conquest in PR campaign as to bring “civilisation” to any group of people….and was fortunately in a position to recently then even buy large sections of it’s territory without the loss of any American lives ( Louisiana purchase and Alaska). All those usual circumstances “deprived” of them to have a mass war…….but they still had an extremely vicious one killing many people. That’s a shame and disgrace……as is their modern era murder levels.

    These are extremely deranged reasons for allowing mass murder like that to occur. It was not about poor vs rich….just one wealthy group attempting to be abit more wealthier than another wealth group.Even Hitler would not have engineered a war killing so many if he was an American leader under those same circumstances.

  198. Carlson picks his fights, China is not an issue that matters much, especially since it is largely justified a trade dispute, compared to immigration or wars in MENA.

    Carlson sure treats China as an issue that matters…as does Trump and his boy Pompeo.

  199. shotguns and birdshot

    ouch!

    I got everything I need last week, just under the wire.

  200. AltanBakshi says

    I will answer and hopefully refute your arguments in near future. At the moment Im travelling and I’m too tired to start to search and copy paste old arguments with a smart phone. WHAT THE Hell I will still TRY! You claimed that Ukrainians had a desire to be independent in the 17th and 18th Century, how common this was among the common local population? Many Ukrainians just wanted a country where they had Orthodox laws and an Orthodox ruler, then you claimed that Ukraine was colonised, by the Russians but again you claim that your narrative was somehow dominant and hegemonic in the 17th and the 18th Century, and not one strain of thought among many. There was no desire for independent Church before the fall of the Russian Empire, really you made this up, yep Uniate aristocrats wanted to separate from the Orthodox Church so they could be accepted to the Catholic circles in the PLC.
    You brought up internal Rus fighting and claimed that somehow Suzdalians were driven by some kind of Proto-Russian impulse, then I countered that by explaining you that civil wars were quite common in the Europe in Medieval times, so one can’t you sack of Kiev as an example of Proto-Russian inclinations. Your logic is very far fetched if you think that in the 12th Century Rus people had some kind of Proto-Ukrainian or Russian inclinations or impulses.

    Then you always like to remind of the peripheric status of the Vladimir-Suzdal, which shows your lack of knowledge regarding European or world history. Brandenburg-Prussia was a peripheric German principality, still they were the ones to unite the Germany, Piedmont-Sardinia was, not maybe peripheral, but at least not Central or most important Italian polity, still it was them who united the Italy, same with the Qin and the China, they were most peripheric and semi barbarian Chinese Kingdom, but still they were the unifies of China. Same with the kingdom of Castile, Catalonia and Leon were much richer, but still it was poor Castile that united the Spain. Its quite common trope in the history that establisher of the empire or country is a poor frontier country.

    Austrias geographic position in the case of the war was bad, but it was not surrounded by the Warsaw pact like Ukraine will be by Russia if Belarus is integrated. In the East Russia, in the South Russia, in the North Russia! Actually Ukraines geopolitical situation would be then comparable to Czechoslovakia in the 1938 than to Austria during the Cold War, especially when nowadays armies are more mobile and Ukraine does not have almost any natural defences and can’t even retreat to mountain redoubt like Austrians could in a hypothetical war with the Warsaw pact.

    One example you say? You are all the time implicitly claiming that your narrative was a dominant in the history of the Ukrainian lands, when in actuality its just one narrative among many, actually your narrative is a very much product of the 20th century Galician nationalism, which claims that majority of the Ukrainian population was subjugated by Russians in the 17th Century, that they were repressed for centuries etc. Yes during the Lenins and Stalins rule that very well was probably true, but to claim that as a dominant narrative among Ukrainians under the rule of the Czars is pure falsehood and Galician Jesuitry. Why Jesuitry you ask? Because again, again and again you forget the countless revolts by the Orthodox peasants and cossacks against the Polish rule, but no you don’t mention them because for you end justifies everything and truth has only one meaning, and that meaning is how well it serves your goals.

    Also I loath to again remind you that I am not a Sovok apologist, but because I am not a Uniate nor a Jesuit I will take a more nuanced view regarding the Soviet Union. Stalin completely exterminated Buddhist Sangha of the Russia, practically all Buddhist monks were killed, 18 000 among the small nation of the Buryats, before that 35 000 Buryats for resisting against the Soviet rule, my relatives have suffered because of the Soviet rule, but as I have said you again and again, one must accept the past and see all good and bad in it, not deny it, nor escape from like a coward. In good and bad the Soviet Union is the past of the Ukrainians, Buryats, Russians, and all the ex-Soviet people, it’s part of us, its something that made us what we are now. The enemy was often not some Jew or Russian in the Moscow, more often it was one of us, if we deny the past or refuse to see or accept it, we deny ourselves. Then we would chooce to live in imagination than in the honest, but harsh reality. Yes maybe it brings pleasure to imagine a past where there was no Soviet Union, no NKVD, no Gulags, no famines, but its just imagination, its not reality and those people who would have gone through different experiences would not be us, nor they would be our relatives or fathers, mothers, grandparents.

    If we deny our past, if we see it as completely bad, we become rootless. If we become rootless, we become weak. If we become weak, we are easily manipulated, especially by external forces.

  201. Uh oh, have you checked your estrogen level?

  202. AnonFromTN says

    The enemy was often not some Jew or Russian in the Moscow, more often it was one of us,

    Reminds me of old Soviet politically incorrect joke: One Ukrainian is a Ukrainian; two Ukrainians are a guerilla unit; three Ukrainians are a guerilla unit with a traitor.

    To be honest, this applies not only to Ukrainians, but to virtually all people. But everybody except the most honest people looks for an outside enemy (Jews, Russians, Germans, whoever) and studiously avoids seeing the enemy within. As Miss Marple used to say, human nature being what it is…

  203. Kapusniak? Never heard of it before, maybe its similar to a good Shchi?

    Perhaps our resident Professor Tennessee, AP or even Anon4 have tasted both soups and can make a comparison, all of them seeming to have a much richer experience interacting with Russian culture than I?

    As for Japanese cooking, I’ve always enjoyed an occasional night out at a good suchi restaurant. For health reasons, I’ve incorporated eating nato into my diet and enjoy it very much, especially by adding in some rich and exotic soy and teriyaki sauces that I’m exploring more and more…

  204. I don’t see anywhere in AP’s stinging indictment of Russian/Ukrainian relations in comment #194 any opining for Catholic or Uniate projection in Ukraine?

  205. AltanBakshi says

    Fixed a typo

    then I countered that by explaining you that civil wars were quite common in the Europe in Medieval times, so one can’t claim that sack of Kiev was an example of Proto-Russian inclinations. Your logic is very far fetched if you think that in the 12th Century Rus people had some kind of Proto-Ukrainian or Russian inclinations or impulses.

    Danes and Swedes had a separate historical and political development from the very start, when their kingdoms or countries were established, unlike Russians and Ukrainians, so it’s a very bad counterargument, yes they had personal union the 15th century, but they had no history of being under a common ruler before that, although Swedes paid tribute to King Cnut for some time.

  206. AltanBakshi says

    I mainly accused him of Jesuitry, which is of course a highly subjective argument. Jesuitry in my opinion is how some one deals with the truth. Like when he often omits things about the history that are well known to him but which don’t serve his objectives. For I believe that he very well knows the history of the Russia and the Ukraine. The Ukrainian Orthodox revolts were a constant nuisance against the PLC, and the hatred of the Orthodox peasantry against the Polish Szlachta was legendary. In those times religious self identification had an utmost importance, both in the West as in the East.

    This is why Mr. Hack I accuse him of Jesuitry, for Jesuits often mispresented the truth so that they could achieve their goals.
    For I am ready to change my opinion, when I learn new things, or when I understand that I have been wrong like with the Ukraine, I gave up, be free, go your own road, I wish very best for the Ukrainians, still I hope for the reunification with Russia, but its better when both parties mature and walk their own road for a some time, and if they don’t unite again, then maybe it’s better so…

  207. AnonFromTN says

    Kapusniak is Polish sauerkraut soup. It uses sauerkraut, like shchi, instead of fresh cabbage, like borscht. Never tried it myself.

    As far as comparison of borscht and shchi goes, I much prefer borscht. However, virtually every cook makes a different borscht. The official variety includes using different meats: beef, pork, chicken, even duck, but the personal touch of a cook changes borscht with the same meat. As far as I know, the only common ingredients on the vegetable side include lots of fresh chopped cabbage, beets, tomatoes (or tomato paste), potatoes, and carrots. Some keep potato pieces as they are, some mash them after cooking. Many cooks add sweet pepper, which I approve of. Dill and parsley also improve borscht, in my view. My grandma used to make borscht from beef or pork. Regardless of the meat source, she always added smoked salo (pork fat) and fresh garlic mashed together, and added her homegrown dill and parsley (we failed to grow dill on our land, but parsley grows fine; in TN it’s perennial, so you don’t have to start from seeds every year). Traditional borscht includes only salt and black pepper as spices, but I see nothing wrong with adding chilis (I just happen to like spicy food, including North Indian, which can be tempered by raita, but draw the line at Thai).

    As far as Japanese food goes, the only cooked thing I like is miso soup. The rest I prefer raw, sushi and sashimi. BTW, although it never made it to North America, Japanese make sushi not only with sea food: I tried excellent sushi with raw horse meat in Japan.

  208. Well, I can tell you from personally watching my mother make kapusniak countless times (She was born in Ukraine and counted herself as a Ukrainian, but there were also many Poles in the family as her father was Polish), a lot of sweet cabbage was also minced up and thrown into the pot alongside of some sauerkraut. Her kapusniak really quite resembled borshch, but without the beets. Sometimes, even light skinned beans were thrown in the pot alongside perhaps even one or two canned or fresh whole tomatoes, mostly for some interesting color.

    I’ve never heard of adding in mashed potatoes into a borshch, and I’ve had borshch in many a home?

    Raw horse meat sashimi, I dunno?……I think I’ll stick to tuna, yellow-fin and salmon.

  209. For I am ready to change my opinion, when I learn new things, or when I understand that I have been wrong like with the Ukraine, I gave up, be free, go your own road, I wish very best for the Ukrainians, still I hope for the reunification with Russia, but its better when both parties mature and walk their own road for a some time, and if they don’t unite again, then maybe it’s better so…

    I can agree with you on this, at least.

  210. Solyanka is the superior soup.

  211. I will answer and hopefully refute your arguments in near future. At the moment Im travelling and I’m too tired to start to search and copy paste old arguments with a smart phone. WHAT THE Hell I will still TRY!

    I appreciate your efforts.

    You claimed that Ukrainians had a desire to be independent in the 17th and 18th Century, how common this was among the common local population?

    Neither of us know with 100% certainty the preferred choice of most people in Ukraine at that time. That having been said, most commoners presumably did not want to be enserfed (serfdom expanded as Moscow abolished local laws in the Hetmanate) and many nobles/Cossack gentry resented the abolishment of their traditional political rights by Moscow. Furthermore, garrisons of Muscovites on Little Russian lands were also viewed negatively.

    There was no desire for independent Church before the fall of the Russian Empire

    The transfer of the Orthodox Church in Kiev from Constantinople to Moscow in 1686 was opposed by local religious and secular authorities within Ukraine. After Peter I abolished the Patriarchate and replaced it with a Synod, Ukrainians were pacified by obtaining high positions within the Russian Church. Something like the first 5 heads of the Synod were all from Ukraine. The first president of the Holy Synod, Stefan Yavorsky, was a Galician who graduated from Jesuit schools:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CY%5CA%5CYavorskyStefan.htm

    At any rate, there was such a desire from the early early 20th century and now. As I mentioned, somehow Ukrainians wanting a Church of their own like almost all other countries have is “greed” in some Russians’ eyes, but Russians wanting to force Ukrainians to be part of a Church based in Moscow is not “greed”, but “destiny.”

    Uniate aristocrats wanted to separate from the Orthodox Church so they could be accepted to the Catholic circles in the PLC.

    The Rus princes whose patrimony Ukraine was, were likely to be Roman Catholics rather than Uniates. The petty gentry of Galicia became Uniates along with the rest of Galicia in 1700, more than a century after the Union of Brest in 1595 (the same Galician gentry prevented the Union on their territory and made it so that Galicia was the last part of Ukraine to accept the Union).

    One example you say? You are all the time implicitly claiming that your narrative was a dominant in the history of the Ukrainian lands, when in actuality its just one narrative among many

    It was both dominant and one among many. It did not claim it was hegemonic as you falsely state.

    You brought up internal Rus fighting and claimed that somehow Suzdalians were driven by some kind of Proto-Russian impulse… Your logic is very far fetched if you think that in the 12th Century Rus people had some kind of Proto-Ukrainian or Russian inclinations or impulses.

    I made no claim of some sort of “proto-Russian drive.” You are making it up.

    I stated that there was conflict between proto-Russians and proto-Ukrainians even in those times. As there were. Kiev warred with Suzdal and Chernihiv, each used foreign auxiliaries such as Pechenegs in their struggle. It is rather odd to consider this to be a “civil war” when the struggles lasted longer than did any sort of unity. Who knows, maybe in 800 years some future AltanBakshi will insist that Germany and Russia are one nation and World War II was a “civil war.”

    Then you always like to remind of the peripheric status of the Vladimir-Suzdal, which shows your lack of knowledge regarding European or world history. Brandenburg-Prussia was a peripheric German principality, still they were the ones to unite the Germany

    The key differences are that the German states had already been united until 1806 (not long before the Prussian unification of 1871) whereas the Rus state while disappearing in 1240 ceased being united in 1132 – over 500 years before Moscow took Kiev under its authority. By that time – different histories, different languages, different political traditions, etc. It’s a silly comparison.

    Moreover, it seems you aren’t aware of some basics of German history. While Prussia was peripheral, Brandenburg was not. The Kingdom of Prussia was ruled by the Hohenzollerns of Brandenburg. The geographic center of the German Empire was in Spremberg, Brandenburg – only 140 km from Berlin.

    Piedmont-Sardinia was, not maybe peripheral, but at least not Central or most important Italian polity

    Correct.

    Same with the kingdom of Castile, Catalonia and Leon were much richer, but still it was poor Castile that united the Spain.

    You realize that Castille is right in the middle of Spain, don’t you?

    Austrias geographic position in the case of the war was bad, but it was not surrounded by the Warsaw pact like Ukraine will be by Russia if Belarus is integrated. In the East Russia, in the South Russia, in the North Russia!

    I wrote Ukraine’s position would be a bit like Austria’s but more extreme. Ukraine would have Russia to the North and East. Crimea is small – most of the south would be the Black Sea. And the West would be Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Moldova. It’s position would be worse than Austria’s but not as bad as Czechoslovakia’s after 1938.

    Yes during the Lenins and Stalins rule that very well was probably true, but to claim that as a dominant narrative among Ukrainians under the rule of the Czars is pure falsehood

    In 1917, before Lenin’s or Stalin’s rule, the majority of Ukrainians voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CA%5CL%5CAll6RussianConstituentAssembly.htm

    So yes, it was not universal, but it was dominant.

    Why Jesuitry you ask? Because again, again and again you forget the countless revolts by the Orthodox peasants and cossacks against the Polish rule,

    Against the PLC was not the same against “Polish rule.” You are confusing the present with the past. PLC was not a Polish National State. Reolts against PLC were primarily revolts against the local, native Rus princes who were expanding their personal power at the expense of the petty gentry and the peasants, to the detriment of the PLC. Have you forgotten that Khmelytsky’s main enemy was the Rus Prince Yarema Vyshnevetsky, and that Khmelnytsky appealed to the Polish king to help him?

    So first uprising was by Cossack nobleman Kosinski against the Rus prince Ostrogsky who had taken his lands:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosi%C5%84ski_uprising

    Then Nalyvaiko uprising may have been more “national” in nature but he was betrayed and handed over to the PLC authorities by his own people.

    Likewise, about the Pavlyuk uprising:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlyuk_uprising

    “On 3 July 1637 Pavlyuk arrived at Kaniów, where he tried to convince the remaining leaders of the Registered Cossacks to betray their loyalty to the king of Poland and fight with him for an autonomous Cossack state between Kiev and Bila Tserkva. However, the Cossack leaders remained sceptical and most remained loyal to the Commonwealth. Unable to convince the well-trained and well-equipped Registered Cossacks to join him, Pavlyuk also dispatched emissaries to Alexis I, tsar of Muscovy and to İnayet Giray, the khan of Crimea.[4] His efforts at securing outside help proved equally unsuccessful.[4]”

    BTW Ukrainian nationalists are equally wrong as Russian ones on this issue. They also have the fairytale that this is an anti-Polish nationalist uprising rather than an intra-Rus civil war, mostly against native princes.

    And you know, there were also plenty of uprisings in Russia in those times (Bolotnikov, Stenka Razin, etc.), yet you don’t pretend that they were national Volga or Cossack uprisings against Muscovites like you do when peasants and petty gentry in Ukraine went to war against Rus magnates of Ukraine.

    Also I loath to again remind you that I am not a Sovok apologist, but because I am not a Uniate nor a Jesuit I will take a more nuanced view regarding the Soviet Union.

    “Nuanced” is not the same as “accurate.” If the truth is 2 +2 = 4, and someone claims 2+ 2= 8, a “nuanced” view of 2+2 = 6 is wrong.

    USSR was evil and did practically nothing that would not have been done had there have been no USSR. But it did a lot of evil that would not have been done had the USSR not existed.

    In good and bad the Soviet Union is the past of the Ukrainians, Buryats, Russians, and all the ex-Soviet people, it’s part of us, its something that made us what we are now.

    Well, sure, being abused as a child to a certain extent makes the survivor who he or she is. It does not mean that it is realistic or healthy to hold a “nuanced” view of the abuse or of the abuser.

    If we deny our past, if we see it as completely bad, we become rootless.

    Actually, your “nuanced” view is also denial. The truth is harsh and you can’t face it: the Soviet experience was a massive waste of lives with no good purpose. So you need our “nuance” to cope with it. Tell yourself you won the war, forgetting that millions and millions of lives were wasted needlessly due to the incompetent management and nature of the shambling state, and that your victory meant a couple decades of second-rate Superpower status followed by collapse, poverty and epic moral degradation. The world could have been yours before the War and Revolution, but instead now you have the opportunity to maybe play second-fiddle to the Chinese. And you have your nuance

  212. AnonFromTN says

    Raw horse meat sashimi, I dunno?……I think I’ll stick to tuna, yellow-fin and salmon.

    Some of the best sushi available in the US include eel or shrimp, not to mention fish roe.

    You don’t add mashed potatoes into borscht, you let potatoes cook, and then mash them in a spoon with a fork and put them right back.

  213. You don’t add mashed potatoes into borscht, you let potatoes cook, and then mash them in a spoon with a fork and put them right back.

    It’s probably good, but it still sounds a little bizarre to my ear…I like Baba’s idea of throwing in some salo even better. 🙂

    Homegrown dill and parsley goes without saying.

  214. AnonFromTN says

    USSR was evil

    So, why are Ukies trying to appropriate Soviet achievements and achievers (e.g., Korolev, Antonov, etc.)? Personality disorder?

  215. So, why are Ukies trying to appropriate Soviet achievements and achievers

    “Soviet” achievements would have existed even without the USSR. Ukraine or Russia did not need Soviets to force them to achieve something.

    Korolev had a Russian father who left when he was three years old. He never saw him again; he was raised by his Ukrainian mother and her family in Ukraine. It is bizarre to consider him a Russian rather than a Ukrainian.

  216. What did he consider himself as? His background was more than just Russian and Ukrainian:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

  217. Korolyov considered himself Ukrainian and was profoindly attached to Ukrainian culture. This is what he wrote himself. Although he certainly also was a man of Russian culture, as were all well educated people born in the Russian Empire.

    BTW, Tsiolkovsky was of Polish descent, although he was also a man of Russian culture.

    Russian Empire was the last historical chance to unite different Slavic ethnicities and allow them to work together towards an outstanding future for themselves and humanity in general.

    This is probably one of the reasons why Russian Empire was destroyed…

  218. AnonFromTN says

    Normal Russian. Russian+Ukrainian+Belorussian+Polish+Greek ancestry. Ukie tribalists won’t understand, but any biologist would tell you that outbreeding is beneficial, whereas inbreeding results in defective and degenerate progeny. As former commandant of Gorlovka (Donetsk People’s Republic) Bezler said, “My father is German, my mother Ukrainian. So, who am I? A Russian!”

  219. Gerard1234 says

    LOL, even with the months, years you spend like a tramp on here……your algorithm can’t give you a better answer to spam even though that issue has been answered many times?!

    Korolev had a Russian father who left when he was three years old. He never saw him again; he was raised by his Ukrainian mother and her family in Ukraine.

    The head of the current fake ( already failed or at the very least , atrocious start) Ukrop church had a father who left him when he was 3 seconds old or before he was even born. WTF is your point you dimwit? Korolev was a Russian, a russian world citizen living as a Russian. Nothing says his mother was a “Ukrainian” as separate from “Russian” of Russian world…..because no type of thing exists

    On his own records, including when he was in prison, he recorded himself as Russian on his documents you d*ckhead. All this even though he grew up in the era of this artificial “Ukrainianisation”. Of course the beauty in the situation is that he could have written Ukrainian or Russian on his documents and it still would not have shown any lessening of his Russian world identity you idiot (OK Karlin, I will behave now)…..as him and a million other examples show.

    “Soviet” achievements would have existed even without the USSR. Ukraine or Russia did not need Soviets to force them to achieve something.

    Too stupid , even by the previous example’s standards to be worth a proper answer……though I could change the subject to mention that “Ukraine” seems to be some sick cult idea promoted by a pile of loser, subroma, subhuman Banderetard Galician ,North American trash….who have absolutely zero connection to Ukraine, different to modern Russian state which is intrinsically linked to every aspect of Ukrainian” identity” over the last millenium.

    Amusingly this fact is even more obvious now than ever before in the last 100 years……Galician representation in this sick, failed Ukraine state that they have stolen is, outside of prostitutes of East Ukrainian oligarchs,….. as low now as it has ever been. LOLOLOL. As if to signify what a failure this freakshow has been-it’s like not being invited to your own birthday party.

    Not even that, but not getting invited to your own (sadist) birthday party, the roof falling down in the nightclub killing everybody trying to celebrate it…..and you getting killed from the fire service truck smashing into you as wait outside for your own party you have not been invited to.

    Of course, if they were a separate people, if they actually had their own people separate from Russians, had their own heroes …..then these cultists (nationalists is a totally wrong term to refer to it as) they would not even need to misappropriate Sikorsky, Korolev as theirs……or have the image of the most Russian man possible, Grushevsky, on their newly released banknotes.

  220. Korolyov wrote that he considered himself an Ukrainian.

  221. Thulean Friend says

    Interesting news out of Slovakia. Marian Kotleba, the leader of their fairly popular right-wing populist party is being thrown into jail. A few days ago, the Slovak president stated that the EU needs stronger rule of law protections. Seems the V4 is disintegrating and the weakest member is Slovakia 🙂

    Perhaps not surprising given the low quality of our resident slovak, Beckow.

    The big challenge now is diffusing his voter base. Kotleba may be removed but his voters remain. I wonder what the age breakdown of the party’s supporters is. Maybe it’s a “one funeral at a time” kind of problem.

  222. Korolyov wrote that he considered himself an Ukrainian.

    As Oles Buzina rightly wrote before Ukies murdered him, being a Ukrainian does not contradict being a Russian. Ukrainians are Russians’ brothers. Thank goodness, Ukies are not: it would be a disgrace to have brothers like that.

  223. https://utorontopress.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/S/P/SP004416.jpg

    Caine and Abel were of course the first “brothers” where their relationship went terribly awry. It’s an old, old story…

  224. Daniel Chieh says

    The Mark of Cain is witnessed in every thread that must become about Ukraine and Russia.

  225. I haven’t read the post. Did you mention asses in this one too, or are you more careful about revealing yourself?

  226. Jim Dore on Tucker Carlson

    From a left perspective, forget about the establishment hacks at Comedy Central and the Cenk Uygur (Chunk Yogurt) Young Turks (Young Turds), this guy is awesome:

  227. We will never know whom Sid and Nancy would have voted for, but Johnny will be voting Trump.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/9/sex-pistols-singer-john-lydon-of-course-im-voting-/

  228. He also voted for Brexit, explaining that he’s always been with the working class and that’s what the (British) working class wanted.

  229. Caine and Abel were of course the first “brothers” where their relationship went terribly awry. It’s an old, old story…

    As a Christian, you must know that the name “Caine” has very unfortunate connotations ever since. Indeed, in important moral ways Caine = Ukie. Except Ukies cannot kill Russia, facilitating the suicide of Ukraine instead. Personally, I believe that their greatest sin is killing Ukraine from within, like cancer.

  230. Senile Biden forgot what he is running for again at a recent meeting with would-be voters in Ohio, said that he is running for senate. Alzheimer is merciless.

  231. I didn’t realise that a government based in Kiev invaded and occupied Russia, starved millions of Russians, deported or shot 100,000s of them, etc.

    Going back further in time, the first example of mass slaughter between the two peoples occurred before they were that different – the prince of Suzdal led a coalition in which his troops brutally sacked Kiev (I don’t recall Kievan troops doing something like that to cities in what would become Russia, do you?). Centuries later, Sahaidachny slaughtered a lot of Muscovites and plundered their lands in the early 17th century during the war between Muscovy and PLC. About 100 years later, Russia came to Ukraine and exterminated the people of Baturyn. Etc.

    In balance, Russians have been killing more Ukrainians than vice versa. Viewing Ukrainians as “Caine” in this relationship is similar to the ridiculous “greed” vs “destiny” projection.

    Indeed, Muscovy also slaughtered Novgorod. It’s historical behaviour had been that of the “Caine” of the Eastern Slavs.

  232. Let me repeat my main thesis: the greatest sin of Ukies is killing Ukraine from within, like cancer. The rest is history (in every sense of this word).

  233. Well, Ukraine’s cancerous (or more accurately, gangrenous) part has been Donbas. It has largely removed itself. The most nationalistic part of Ukraine, Galicia, has also been the healthiest. Literally (this region has the highest life expectancy in the country) and socially (lowest abortion rate, lowest HIV rate, lowest out of wedlock birth rate, near lowest crime rate, above average birth rate, etc.)

  234. So, let me guess, in your bizarro way of looking at things, for Ukraine to “save itself” it needs to prostitute itself on the altar of Muscovite imperial avarice?

    I keep asking you, and never get a satisfactory answer as to why have you left Russia and live in the middle of Tennessee somewhere if it’s so great there? You’ve lived for 32 years before in Moscow. and certainly by 2020 it has slivered out of the long economic fog to be able to provide you with a decent job and place to live?

  235. Dacian Julien Soros says

    Acshually mitoribosomes are “similar” but quite different from bacterial ribosomes. This, and the “no true Scotsman” fallacy re Gorby make it seem you had a bad day.

  236. AnonFromTN says

    for Ukraine to “save itself” it needs to prostitute itself on the altar of Muscovite imperial avarice?

    In my view, to survive, Ukraine must stop prostituting itself in front of the Empire and its European sidekicks. Neither gives a hoot about Ukraine, they just suck the living blood out of it, with the help of thieving Ukrainian oligarchs. Unfortunately, ever since 1991 Ukraine did not have elites and governments that cared about the country, they all focused on lining their pockets, like there is no tomorrow. They keep using primeval tribal nationalism as a fig leaf to cover their wanton thievery. Although some sheeple are deceived, a lot of people in Ukraine know the score. But their passivity enables the thieves and traitors of the “leadership”. This became more open and acute after 2014 coup, but the same problem existed 1991-2014.

    My place of employment is totally irrelevant in this regard. I left when science was sabotaged along with the rest of the economy by traitorous Soviet elites in 1991. Today the scientific level of most biomedical research in RF did not reach even pretty low level of the USSR. In 1991 the US was the best place in the world to do academic research, as funding was distributed largely on merit. Due to the policies of the US government and Congress in the last 20 years American science is deteriorating, in essence dying a slow death by a thousand cuts (in every sense of this word). It did not deteriorate to the point of making me leave yet, but it might. Then I would move to the place that allows me to do the best science I can, since I am not qualified to do anything else and do not have recognizable name in any other field. As European vassals are on the same slippery slope as their suzerain, that place might be Russia, China, or Singapore.

    The place of my employment won’t change anything for Ukraine, which is being led to the slaughter by its traitorous elites, unwittingly assisted by dumb “true believer” Ukies.

  237. AnonFromTN says

    Sorry to point that out, but mitochondrial (and chloroplast) ribosomes are as small and fast as bacterial ribosomes. Ribosomes in different eubacterial lineages are also somewhat different, but all are small and fast, in sharp contrast to archaebacterial and our cellular ribosomes.

    As to Gorby, the fact that he lives outside of Russia tells anyone willing to see the reality everything they need to know about him. Dumb traitor is still a traitor.

  238. AnonFromTN says

    I am not talking about regions, I am talking about the country. But arguing with Ukies is useless: nobody is as blind as someone who refuses to see.

  239. Dacian Julien Soros says

    True, mitoribosomes are much closer to their bacterial countrpart. But it still seems as exciting as the lost RNA world to hypothesize a fourth, independent lineage, besides EK, PK, and archea. Think hepatitis viruses, and in particular the magic of hep D. Different from the others, unable to live by itself.

  240. AnonFromTN says

    There are many fascinating things in the evolution of life. Say, one of the key histones differs by only two amino acids between us and potatoes, but has ~30% sequence variation among diatomaceous algae.

    One thing is known for sure: all these lineages are not quite independent, they came from the same root, as genetic code in all of them is identical.

  241. I actually believe a lot of your ideas, however, with a few caveats:

    Unfortunately, ever since 1991 Ukraine did not have elites and governments that cared about the country, they all focused on lining their pockets, like there is no tomorrow. They keep using primeval tribal nationalism as a fig leaf to cover their wanton thievery.

    Isn’t the system quite a bit the same in Russia? Take away Russia’s huge energy sector and isn’t what you have left just another larger version of Ukraine? Yet, you seldom criticize Russia and mostly point your finger endlessly criticizing Ukraine.

    Ukrainians, including their oligarchs have tried the junior partner role in the Russian world configuration and have opted out for more of a Western orientation, not totally unlike what you’ve personally ended up doing. Large chunks of Ukraine have already experienced Western inclusion and came out better for it. I’m willing to let things evolve and see where they end up.

  242. Morton's toes says

    In the u.s. the best male athletes generally go: football, then basketball, then baseball. Those are the status sports. Tennis is for loners and people whose parents are tennis fanatics. I think tennis is dying in the United States. I never see anybody on public tennis courts any more.

    I used to play all the time and I quit playing twenty years ago and people I run into will beg me to come out to the court. I have not experienced one microsecond of back pain since I quit playing tennis.

  243. AnonFromTN says

    Isn’t the system quite a bit the same in Russia? Take away Russia’s huge energy sector and isn’t what you have left just another larger version of Ukraine?

    Not quite, on many levels. First, there is too much corruption in Russia, but compared to Ukraine Russian officials and oligarchs look almost honest. BTW, that difference was evident even in Soviet times: if we assign 10 to the level of corruption in Russia proper in the USSR and 100 to the level of corruption in Georgia or Azerbaijan, Ukrainian level would be about 50. Second, Russia remains a sovereign country, whereas Ukraine is anything but. In fact, Russian mega-thieves learned from the mistakes of Ukrainian oligarchs: unless you have a strong country protecting you, competing thieves would steal your loot. Third, all objective economic measures indicate that Russia is developing, whereas Ukraine is deteriorating. The same can be said about the living standards of ordinary people (I know this first hand, as I have relatives living in both countries). Fourth, even at the nadir of 1990s Russia avoided the trap of tribal nationalism. Stupid tribalists in Russia never got more than 10% electoral support, whereas in Ukraine it was and still is a lot higher. This shows the maturity of the populace. Finally, compared to wily Putin, Ukrainian “presidents” (all of them, since 1991) are intellectual pigmies, at the level of drunk traitor Yeltsin and below.

    Ukraine could have been a large country, it started at >50 million residents in 1991, but it went down from there. Not to mention that even much smaller countries, like Nicaragua or Singapore, show a lot more dignity than Ukraine, which behaves as an obsequious vassal, like Republic of Palau. From where I stand, it’s a shame.

  244. The secret to playing tennis and maintaining your health is to properly stretch out before you play (and probably afterwards too, which I never did, being to exhausted too do anything more than get into my car and go home). Also, not playing everyday for hours on end – I used to play a lot and developed a very bad case of shin splints that would only go away completely after several months of not playing at all. Try not to play on consecutive days and not play for more than 1.5 hours tops. I too quit playing about 20 years ago, but as I have more time now am considering getting back into the game. It’s a really great game where one can gain a winning game by using good strategy and your head too. Of course, it doesn’t hurt to have a good pair of legs too. 🙂

  245. BTW, that difference was evident even in Soviet times: if we assign 10 to the level of corruption in Russia proper in the USSR and 100 to the level of corruption in Georgia or Azerbaijan, Ukrainian level would be about 50.

    Surely, you must be exaggerating here? I understand your hatred for Kyiv is mostly centered around the unfortunate bombardment of your mother’s home in Donbas and this weighs in quite heavily in any of your formulations. In my opinion, the corruption of the oligarchs in Russia is reigned in a bit and falls more into a pyramidic organization because of Putin and him sitting at the top – in Ukraine, the oligarchic clans are still much more competitive and try to encroach on the others domain and vie for control of the center.

    Russian mega-thieves learned from the mistakes of Ukrainian oligarchs: unless you have a strong country protecting you, competing thieves would steal your loot.

    On the contrary, I think that Ukrainian oligarchs have thrown in their support for a separate and independent Ukraine to help stem the encroachment of Russian oligarchs on their territory. Kolomoisky would be the prime example of this sort of an approach.

    Third, all objective economic measures indicate that Russia is developing, whereas Ukraine is deteriorating.

    I’ve already conceded that Russia is economically better off than Ukraine due mostly to the inclusion of profits made within the energy sector that does help benefit the whole economy. Take the energy sector away, and Russia has little to offer the world in terms of its technological prowess.

  246. AltanBakshi says

    I do believe that most Ukrainians or Rusyns, Rusnaks, or just Christians felt perfectly integrated members/subjects of the Russian emperors. This is highly subjective matter and there are as many answers as there were individuals.

    At any rate, there was such a desire from the early early 20th century and now. As I mentioned, somehow Ukrainians wanting a Church of their own like almost all other countries have is “greed” in some Russians’ eyes, but Russians wanting to force Ukrainians to be part of a Church based in Moscow is not “greed”, but “destiny.”

    I did not write anything about destiny or greed? I don’t believe in destiny nor I have claimed to believe so.

    The Rus princes whose patrimony Ukraine was, were likely to be Roman Catholics rather than Uniates. The petty gentry of Galicia became Uniates along with the rest of Galicia in 1700, more than a century after the Union of Brest in 1595 (the same Galician gentry prevented the Union on their territory and made it so that Galicia was the last part of Ukraine to accept the Union).

    Most members of the Ruthenian high nobility in PLC, were undergoing a process of Polonization, as you yourself very well know. Year by year most of them started to identify more strongly with the Polish Szlachta and Catholic Church than with the Ruthenian peasants and the Orthodox Church.

    It was both dominant and one among many. It did not claim it was hegemonic as you falsely state.

    Nitpicking are we? Still to claim that desire for the independent Ukrainian nation was a dominant desire among the people inside the borders of the modern day Ukraine in the 17th to 18th or 19th is in my opinion quite strong, or like Karlin likes to say “powerful” statement, which has no legitimacy in the view of history. Possibly for a short time during the 17th Century, but then there was a many or possibly majority of population of Ukraine proper that didn’t mind being under of the Russian Czar, at least Orthodox Church was mostly very Russophilic, even under the Cpole.

    I stated that there was conflict between proto-Russians and proto-Ukrainians even in those times. As there were. Kiev warred with Suzdal and Chernihiv, each used foreign auxiliaries such as Pechenegs in their struggle. It is rather odd to consider this to be a “civil war” when the struggles lasted longer than did any sort of unity. Who knows, maybe in 800 years some future AltanBakshi will insist that Germany and Russia are one nation and World War II was a “civil war.”

    Again your far fetched false analogies. Italian states warred for many centuries between Guelphs and Ghibellines, as a part of the Holy Roman Empire, actually most of their time when they were under HRM emperors they fought between these two factions, only little more than a century after the establishment of the HRM by the emperor Otto I, they started warring and those factions lasted till the disappearance of the HRM in the Italy. And they definitely used foreign mercenaries all the time, even English mercenary companies. I get it you don’t actually know much about the European history, that’s why you are making such a big case of Suzdals behaviour.

    Moreover, it seems you aren’t aware of some basics of German history. While Prussia was peripheral, Brandenburg was not. The Kingdom of Prussia was ruled by the Hohenzollerns of Brandenburg. The geographic center of the German Empire was in Spremberg, Brandenburg – only 140 km from Berlin.

    I am somewhat sad, I had a bigger hopes for you. Yes, yes the Eastern borders of Brandenburg-Prussia were the same as German Empires. Such historical illiteracy.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Locator_Brandenburg_within_the_Holy_Roman_Empire_%281618%29.svg/800px-Locator_Brandenburg_within_the_Holy_Roman_Empire_%281618%29.svg.png

    Oh yes at the Margraviate was clearly at the center of the empire. But probably you don’t even know that Margraviate means same as March County, you know border area. Brandenburg was definitely situated in the frontier of the HRM, and was originally composed from the lands conquered from the Slavs and Brandenburg had many Slovincian, Wend and Sorb Slavs in their early history, although they were Germanized, but there are still some Sorbs left in Lusatia, but Lusatia was gained in the 18th Century. Duchy of Prussia which they gained in 1618 was even more peripheral German land and had many Masurian Slavs and Lithuanians, especially the Duchy part compared to the Polish ruled Royal Lrussia, which was more German and Kashubian.

    You realize that Castille is right in the middle of Spain, don’t you?

    Your smugness is cute!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Map_Iberian_Peninsula_1037-es.svg/827px-Map_Iberian_Peninsula_1037-es.svg.png

    They by the way still differentiate between original Castilian lands/Castilla la Vieja and Castilla la Nueva in Spain.

    Against the PLC was not the same against “Polish rule.” You are confusing the present with the past. PLC was not a Polish National State. Reolts against PLC were primarily revolts against the local, native Rus princes who were expanding their personal power at the expense of the petty gentry and the peasants, to the detriment of the PLC. Have you forgotten that Khmelytsky’s main enemy was the Rus Prince Yarema Vyshnevetsky, and that Khmelnytsky appealed to the Polish king to help him?

    So first uprising was by Cossack nobleman Kosinski against the Rus prince Ostrogsky who had taken his lands:

    Against Polonized nobles of PLC, which didn’t share same cultural and religious values as the Rus masses, or at felt more and more unity and common interests with the Polish nobility and Catholic Church than with the Orthodox peasants. Yeah yeah now you will conjure something from your top hat and say that Moskals had different religious and cultural values and were practically Germans after Catherine, or so it always ends with you. Religion had a a paramount importance in those times, especially in Europe.

    And you know, there were also plenty of uprisings in Russia in those times (Bolotnikov, Stenka Razin, etc.), yet you don’t pretend that they were national Volga or Cossack uprisings against Muscovites like you do when peasants and petty gentry in Ukraine went to war against Rus magnates of Ukraine.

    Before Pugachev they at least shared similar religious and cultural outlook with their elites, unlike the Polonized Ruthenian Lords and revolting Rus peasants and cossacks.

    Actually, your “nuanced” view is also denial. The truth is harsh and you can’t face it: the Soviet experience was a massive waste of lives with no good purpose. So you need our “nuance” to cope with it. Tell yourself you won the war, forgetting that millions and millions of lives were wasted needlessly due to the incompetent management and nature of the shambling state, and that your victory meant a couple decades of second-rate Superpower status followed by collapse, poverty and epic moral degradation. The world could have been yours before the War and Revolution, but instead now you have the opportunity to maybe play second-fiddle to the Chinese. And you have your nuance

    More you hate something, more you give power to your object of hate, more it warps your cognition. Very simplistic of you to compare it with the situation of an abused child. Soviet Union was hundreds of millions of different stories, most were painful, most had suffering, but so did many lives have beauty and dignity even among great horror stories. Also unlike with the Nazis, the Soviet Union got more humane as it matured, although it was a child of a world war and a civil war, so it had much more complicated and violent beginnings than the Nazi Germany had. Nazis hijacked a democratic country, which was one of the most developed countries in the world, but Bolsheviks hijacked a country middle of World War, with many unsolved and buried social and ethnic problems. I personally think that it should have been better that there would have never been a Soviet Union, but now its too late to cry for something that has already happened. But quite cringe and emotional outburst from you, “world could been yours,” excuse me? You are those individuals who are too attached to alternative historical outcomes, you are Christian by name only. If you would be a Christian you would see that Soviets, people and leaders were often mistaken individuals, born from hardship and harsh circumstances, prone to error, not some kind of Satanic machine or empire. Actually my view towards Soviet Union is very neutral. I understand people who are nostalgic about it, as I do understand that it meant losing of freedom for countlessmen and women. There are only couple things in the Soviet history, which are actually really important for me, beating the Nazi Germany, and the failure of Gorbachev to reform the SU, but I am not so attached with that as you are with you alternative histories were things would have gotten so nicely without absolutely evil Soviet Union.

    Our difference is more philosophical and religious, for me essentialism or dualist viewpoints are falsehood. But right now I am too tired to explain it more profoundly to you. Maybe some another time.

    Maybe I try little bit…
    Every man is the Christ’s image, just muddied by our fallen reality. Every being has a Buddha nature, although stained by afflictions, but those who are attached to apparitions/stains will never become free, but will be forever prisoners of their own making.

  247. AltanBakshi says

    I do believe that most Ukrainians or Rusyns, Rusnaks, or just Christians felt perfectly integrated members/subjects of the Russian emperors. This is highly subjective matter and there are as many answers as there were individuals.

    Or whatever moniker they used for a self identification.

  248. AnonFromTN says

    On the contrary, I think that Ukrainian oligarchs have thrown in their support for a separate and independent Ukraine to help stem the encroachment of Russian oligarchs on their territory. Kolomoisky would be the prime example of this sort of an approach.

    That’s what they thought. Indeed, they wanted independence not because they cared about Ukraine, but because they wanted uninhibited thievery with minimal competition from Russian thieves. However, later using the same logic many of Ukrainian (in a loose sense, as hardly any of them are actually Ukrainians) mega-thieves decided that Yanuk’s gang is stealing too much of money they’d like to steal themselves, and supported Maidan. Now, look at the result: net worth of virtually all of these oligarchs decreased since 2014, some are criminally investigated abroad (Kolomoisky in the US), while Firtash was even imprisoned in Austria. Just go to the Forbes list and compare smarter Russian mega-thieves (Potanin, Lisin, Kerimov, Mikhelson – all over 20 billion) with dumber Ukrainian mega-thieves (Akhmetov at 3 billion, Pinchuk, Poroshenko, and Zhevago under 1.5 billion). That’s what I meant when I said that Russian oligarchs learned from strategic mistake of their Ukrainian “colleagues”.

    Take the energy sector away, and Russia has little to offer the world in terms of its technological prowess.

    That might have been true 15-20 years ago, but not today. In 2019 Russia sold agricultural products worth more than weapons, and weapons worth more than natural gas. The total fuels (oil, gas, and coal) are about half of Russian exports, whereas metals (iron, steel, aluminum, copper) and machinery (including computers) and other equipment feature prominently (see: http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/). Russian non-fuel exports totaled more than $200 billion. Compare it to Ukraine’s less than $50 billion in the same year, with machinery and equipment accounting for paltry 9%. Divide these numbers by respective populations and you get a pretty grim picture for Ukraine.

  249. Russian non-fuel exports totaled more than $200 billion. Compare it to Ukraine’s less than $50 billion in the same year, with machinery and equipment accounting for paltry 9%. Divide these numbers by respective populations and you get a pretty grim picture for Ukraine.

    When considering that Russia’s population is more than 3 times larger than Ukraine’s, and a landmass of at least 28 times larger, these stats don’t impress quite as much. Of course about 50% of Ukraine’s land is arable land whereas 0nly 10% of Russia’s is arable. So, Russia’s gains in the agricultural sector are indeed impressive.

  250. AnonFromTN says

    So, Russia’s gains in the agricultural sector are indeed impressive.

    The funniest thing about those gains is that they were a direct consequence of Western sanctions. Before 2014 Russian authorities were stupid enough to let agriculture deteriorate and compensated by food imports. Sanctions became a much-needed wake up call. Authorities adopted numerous measures to stimulate agriculture. The result was large increase in production, hence an increase in exports. One comical example is that Russia is muscling out France from Algerian wheat market, which was historically dominated by French producers.

    Similar things are happening in industry: Russia is making its own helicopter engines (used to buy from Ukrainian Motor Sich), ship engines (also used to buy from Ukraine), high-power turbines (used to buy from Siemens), etc. Domestic shipbuilding in Russia got a huge boost, so did road, port, and airport construction, etc. Stupid US/EU maneuvers around Nord Steam 2 stimulated the construction of internal pipelines and export pipelines to China, and sped up construction of gas liquefaction plants. Talk of unintended consequences.

  251. Yes, yes the Eastern borders of Brandenburg-Prussia were the same as German Empires. Such historical illiteracy.

    Sorry to point out that you have only demonstrated ether your own historical illiteracy or your trickery (Jesuitry?). We are Discussing the German Empire headed by the Hohenzollerns of Brandenburg-Prussia. But you posted a map of the Holy Roman Empire to try to prove that Brandenburg was “peripheral.”

    Here is the German Empire forged by Brandenburg-Prussia:

    https://cdn.britannica.com/04/904-050-BE947E27/German-Empire-1918.jpg

    As you see, Berlin is more or less in the middle.

    So – were you ignorant, or intellectually dishonest?

    You tried the same trick with Spain. You posted a map showing Castilla as the center of the non-Islamic parts of Spain.

    Castilla (old and new), right in the middle of Spain:

    https://ep01.epimg.net/verne/imagenes/2020/05/29/articulo/1590758858_178325_1590759962_sumario_normal.jpg

    I just wanted to point out your either ignorance or trickery. I will address the rest of your post later, I don’t have time at the moment.

  252. Here we go again:

    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-borscht-unesco–cultural-heritage-listing/30887117.html

    Borscht has been typically among the highlighted menu items at patriotically themed Russian gatherings that I’ve attended.

    Quickly went thru the rehashes evident within the prior 25 comments at this thread. The US had a violent civil war which included the destruction of Atlanta. The incomplete svido highlighting of what Bogolyubsky did doesn’t substantively debunk the mutually related/shared history regarding contemporary Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. Keeping in mind that the Scots have diverse views among themselves concerning English dominated Britain.

  253. AnonFromTN says

    I’ll believe it when I see something made in the USA in Home Depot or Target. Right now everything there is made in China. Or if you are lucky, it’s made in Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mexico, or Philippines.

    I hear a lot of empty talk like yours, but no action. Reminds me of a Soviet joke.
    A guy comes to a clinic and says:
    – I need an eye and ear doctor.
    – Sorry, we have eye doctors, we have ear doctors, but we don’t have eye and ear doctors. Why do you want such a doctor?
    – Because I hear one thing and see a totally different thing.

  254. Daniel Chieh says
  255. I wonder, how often do you buy rare earths for your household? I don’t recall buying them even once in my life. While my pants are made in China, my shirt is made in China, my snickers are made in Vietnam, etc. Maybe I should make a fig leaf out of rare earths and wear it instead of pants?

  256. AltanBakshi says

    Then you always like to remind of the peripheric status of the Vladimir-Suzdal, which shows your lack of knowledge regarding European or world history. Brandenburg-Prussia was a peripheric German principality, still they were the ones to unite the Germany, Piedmont-Sardinia was, not maybe peripheral, but at least not Central or most important Italian polity, still it was them who united the Italy, same with the Qin and the China, they were most peripheric and semi barbarian Chinese Kingdom, but still they were the unifies of China. Same with the kingdom of Castile, Catalonia and Leon were much richer, but still it was poor Castile that united the Spain. Its quite common trope in the history that establisher of the empire or country is a poor frontier country.

    Are you so thick that you really don’t get the context? Suzdal had a quite different geopolitical situation than later Russia or Grand Duchy of Muscowy, as Brandenburg-Prussia did in comparison with its later development, same with Castille. All those three were originally peripheral principalities. At least in relation to other countries belonging to their cultural sphere.

    Really I would not have believed that you were so simple?

    Brandenburg-Prussia was the name of Kingdom of Prussia before gaining of Pommern and Silesia, long time before the unification of Germany, so I was not originally talking about German Empire of the 1871-1918. With Castille I should have written the County of Castille, but still I wrote about Leon, I though you have enough basic historical literacy to think that oh yes Castile was originally a “small frontier principality during the reconquista,there were more originally important Christian countries in Spain, like fricking Leon and Catalonia,” but no!

    I have had enough, okay you are not practicing Jesuitry, at least you need some sophistication for that!

  257. Bogolyubsky had a legit dynastic claim to the Kiev throne, as noted by the not so pro-Russian Ukrainian historian Orest Subtelny.

    If I correctly recall (could be wrong), Karlin said that the Galician head at the time, supported Bogolybusky’s advance against his opponents in Kiev.

  258. AltanBakshi says

    AP I must ask you are you debating for the sake of greater understanding or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

  259. Meanwhile in France:

    https://www.murmansk.kp.ru/share/i/4/1575497/wx1080.jpg

    Douce France…

  260. Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive says

    How much self awareness do you have to lack to be unable to notice I’m talking about you?
    Do I need to spell it out? How about the whole part where you would agree that Armenians are a defined ethnic group, with customs and traditions, that can also “become” Russian?

    Everyone else is an objective, descendancy based, ethnic group. But Russians are a state of mind. If other groups can define themselves objectively, but your group is a subjective emotional definition, you have no group at all.
    If Russianness is a social construct, why do you care that a group of them got burned alive in Odessa for being Russian? After all, Russianness is a “state of mind”, they should have just changed “states of mind” to avoid dying.

    This sort of denial isn’t just a cute quirk, it’s masochistic and ethnocidal. Above all, it’s disgusting.

  261. Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive says

    Ah that explains it

  262. AltanBakshi says

    Allegory of the Globohomo! Transfiguration(mutilation) of France!! Assumption of St. Macron!

  263. AltanBakshi says

    Right wingers are too often autists who take everything too literally, but the left on the other hand is often too relativistic and nihilist regarding categorization and classification of values, peoples or phenomena.

    If Romans would have kept their original concept of Romanhood, who is Roman etc, they would never had attained such glory and civilization, on the other hand it can also be argued that because the concept of who is Roman, became so lax, they lost their sense of community and cohesion. If you are too strict and exclusive with your community, you never attain greatness like ancient Romans, Aryans, Chinese and others did and you will degenerate like the medieval Habsburgs and the rest of the European nobility, or like Ashkenazis now. But if you are too lax and inclusive with your community, you will lose your cohesion and sense of self, which also leads to degradation and corruption. As always most important is right balance and slow, but peaceful change or integration.

    Reality is not black and white or all or nothing. Russianness is somewhat genetic, but it’s also somewhat cultural, its also somewhat subjective as its also somewhat material. To say that something is just strictly material, is dangerous form of reductionism. It’s also not very easily defensible from a philosophical point of view. Many Germans, especially Eastern Germans have almost same genes as Czechs and Poles have, and its no wonder, after all many Brandenburgera and Pomeranian are descendants of medieval Slavic Wends and Silesians, so one could claim that their Germanness is just a social construct. Many Russians are just Slavified Finns. Still I would not claim that Russianness is just a social construct, as I would also not claim that there is objective or materialist basis for Russianness.

    I am proponent of Middle Way in all things. Russianness is not materialist thing, as its not only a state of mind, still there is a continuum of a Russian culture, tradition and genes, So I would say that being a Russian is a process or a stream of many different but affiliated and co dependent phenomena.

  264. AnonFromTn is not only from Tn, but also from an older generation that really was molded into the Soviet brotherhood of people state of mind. It was not a bad state of mind, except that it was done mainly at the expense of the ethnic Russian interests. Great Russian Chauvinism was to be crushed and diluted in a sea of brotherly love. We should thank our Ukrainian brothers for the tough awakening they provided when they have shown in Odessa how this brotherhood of Slavic people looks.

    What was the poem they recited on Maidan: “Никогда не будем мы братьями…”? What was all the talk about “Москаляку на гиляку” about?

    I hope that this time Russians will get the message straight: it’s Joy through Strength or suffering through weakness and nothing else in sight.

  265. Blinky Bill says
  266. We should thank our Ukrainian brothers for the tough awakening they provided when they have shown in Odessa how this brotherhood of Slavic people looks.

    It’s not some sort of genetic predisposition that tears Ukrainians and Russians apart, but real concrete historical grievances that have accumulated for centuries that add up to this animosity. AP was honest enough to enumerate just a very few of these differences for you in comment #194 that you either didn’t read or chose to ignore, that can’t just be swept under the rug in favor of some sort of non-existent “brotherly” utopia that has in fact never really existed.

  267. Are you so thick that you really don’t get the context? Suzdal had a quite different geopolitical situation than later Russia or Grand Duchy of Muscowy, as Brandenburg-Prussia did in comparison with its later development

    1. This entire discussion about the peripheral status of Brandenburg is a tricky diversion from the fact that the comparison of Suzdal-Muscovy-Russia vis a vis Rus, and Brandenburg to HRE is very absurd. HRE existed for around 1,000 years. It ended in 1806, and Berlin gathered together German lands in 1871 – 65 years after the end of HRE. Rus existed for less than 400 years, until the Mongol conquest in 1240. Muscovy took Ukraine under its control in 1654 – 414 years after Rus disappeared! Longer than the very existence of a Rus state. It’s an absurd and unrealistic comparison. This is the “context” you have been desperate to avoid.
    2. Returning to your diversion – even Brandenburg was less peripheral within HRE than Suzdal was within Rus. HRE was more compact and the distance of Brandenburg to the geographic center was much closer than that of Vladimir to the center of Rus:

    https://images.app.goo.gl/xRzTxXXryoCXmxzr9

    With Castille I should have written the County of Castille, but still I wrote about Leon, I though you have enough basic historical literacy to think that oh yes Castile was originally a “small frontier principality during the reconquista

    As the maps indicate, old Castile was the region not under Muslim control that was closest to the center of Iberia. Leon is in the extreme northwest corner of Iberia, Catalonia in the northeast. New Castile is right in the middle of Iberia.

    So you are not even correct with respect to your diversions.

    P.S. I have not forgotten your post and will respond to it when am less busy.

  268. We should thank our Ukrainian brothers for the tough awakening they provided when they have shown in Odessa how this brotherhood of Slavic people looks.

    You make much of what is in essence an unfortunate accident with a relatively small number of casualties (around 40 IIRC).

    Pro-Maidan and anti-Maidan hooligans clashed, an anti-Maidan hooligan killed a pro-Maidan hooligan first, same as in Donetsk earlier. Unlike in Donetsk, where pro were outnumbered and dispersed after one of theirs was killed, in Odessa the anti were outnumbered and were chased away (Odessa is not Donetsk). Some anti chose to make a stand in the Trade Union building (others were fooled into hiding there), where both sides hurled Molotov cocktails at each other. Bad idea to be the side that chooses to be inside a building during such an exchange. After the building caught fire, a lot people in the crowd tried to save the ones inside, even bringing scaffolding to the building.

    Here is a refutation of the Russian fairytales, with plenty of video evidence backing up the claims:

    http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1407453894

  269. non-existent “brotherly” utopia that has in fact never really existed.

    That’s exactly what I wrote above, it should have always been Russian interests first. No brotherhood bullshit. Just like Ukrainian nationalists always put Украйна понад усе, Russian nationalists should put Russian interests above all the rest. If Russia is weak it will be torn apart. If it is poor it’ll be weak. So it has to develop and grow rich. If it has a depressed birth rates it’ll be weak. So it has to care for its families and children etc.

    Russian nationalists should stop caring about Ukrainians, except where the Russian interests are concerned. Otherwise forget about them.

  270. You can argue that people with a mixed admixture will want to promote an ideology promoting or more tolerant of mixed admixture, for obvious psychological reasons. So obviously some half black like Naom Osaka will be opposed to some Japanese ideology found along the lines of ethnic or racial purity.

  271. Ukie tribalists won’t understand, but any biologist would tell you that outbreeding is beneficial, whereas inbreeding results in defective and degenerate progeny.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outbreeding_depression

  272. Daniel Chieh says

    It is also ridiculous otherwise. I’m admixed Mongolian and Chinese, the latter which is some admixture of the many different warring states and former also made of dozens of other tribes. One could totally obsess over the details of Qin, Chu(my ancestry is Chu), Wei, or the dozens of other warring states all which had managed some degree of ethnic and cultural distinctiveness because Qin Shi Huang happened upon them.

    If China had stayed that way, then China would not exist.

  273. AltanBakshi says

    1.Says guy who brought up German Empire, when I was talking about Suzdal and Brandenburg-Prussia. Brandenburg was much poorer and remote in relation to the heartlands of the empire, like the prosperous lands of Rheinland and Bavaria.

    1. If you would know something about the geography of Iberia, you would know that areas ruled by Leon and Kingdom of Aragon(which controller Catalonia), were much more fertile and developed than the arid lands of Castile in the 11th and 12th Century. Also Leon was as much or almost as much close to the center of Iberia, but most productive lands of Iberia in the Middle Ages were not in the North, but in the South and the East. North Central Spain is quite arid.

    Holy Roman Empire had just de jure unity after the 16th Century, different countries had their own laws, courts, customs, armies etc. Even in the 16th Century they had very little unity. Although emperor Charles V tried his best, in reality last time when the empire had true unity was in the 13th Century under the Hohenstaufens. Same, or more extreme with the Italy, last time they had unity before their unification was under the emperor Justinian I. Spain too needed 700 years before they united once again.

    Yes 400 years for some regions of Ukraine, but its not true with Severia, nor with Sloboda Ukraine, which was not truly under administration of Kievan Rus.. Maybe for a sometime loosely controlled after the destruction of the Khazars, I have not found a definite proof that the area was controlled by the Rus, often if there is no definite proof on such things, it means that region in question was used as a nomadic grazing land. Donbass was surely land acquired by the nascent Russian Tsardom, and not by Ukrainians, so too its with the Edisan, modern Odessa Oblast and Budjak. Clearly for you the criteria for a rightful ownership of the land is decided by how long some political entity has ruled it? Or how long ago they were under a same administration? Very confusing. But if so then Russia surely and by your logic has better claim for Sloboda Ukraine, Donbass, Crimea, Budjak, Edisan, Siberia, etc.

    Okay now I get, how long some area has been separated from your lands, measures or decides how morally justified its to annex those lands back? Russia got Siberia in the early 16th Century, and Left Bank Ukraine in mid 17th Century, so let’s say after 300 and 400 years. Italians and Spanish had much, much longer time between unification of their lands. With Germans the thing is more subjective, in my opinion to call HRM unified even in the low standards of Kievan Rus of the 11th Century, would be extreme in my opinion. Yes they were as unified in the 16th Century, although even then their emperor Charles V was killing opposing Germans left and right, be they nobles, peasants or Protestants, but HRM after 1618 was not unified, not in any way. We all know how Voltaire mocked HRM in the 18th Century… “not an empire. ” After the peace of Westphalia in the 1648 that broken unity was made permanent. So 1618-1871, its 250 years. Now you will mention that Rus principalities were practically not united country by the 12th Century, if you will use those standards, then I will claim that HRM was not United after the Hohenstaufens, so then Germany had a period of disunity all the way from the mid 13th century to 1871. Half a millennia!
    And that’s only one point, please keep in your mind Italy and Spain, btw in both countries people spoke and still speak mutually intelligible or at least as mutually intelligible languages as Ukrainian and Russian.

  274. India used to have two very good doubles players ( winning on all surfaces) Lander Paes and another guy. The French had recently two high-quality top-10 African players in Tsonga and Monfils – all capable of beating somebody like Wawrinka ( winner of French, Australian and US ) regularly, but of course not at the same extremely high level of the top 3. Canada have a highly rated black tennis player.

    The only non-Western finalist is Brazilian Soares in the doubles final, and he looks like this:

    I was thinking before the 2018 World Cup about how many Brazilians Russia should give citizenship to as a sign of desperation, because of the fact it looked like we were a garbage team…assuming we would play badly and would need to get black brazilians ( as Japan, Ukraine even the big or talented countries like Spain, Croatia and Italy have done).

    In the end we actually played very well in the world cup……and only took one Brazilian footballer, Fernandes…….perhaps the whitest, most European man in Brazil.

    I also don’t understand why black women (Serena Williams, and now mixed-race blacks like Naomi Osaka) can find success in women’s tennis but no major black male tennis player can.

    Well, drugs for the ape-like Williams “sisters”, as for your question I don’t know the answer……though I would argue that France, Germany, Italy and Russian (well, the ladies) tennis are criminally underachieving.

  275. AltanBakshi says

    Of course the line must be put somewhere.

    If there is village of 2000 Russians and you would put there 5 Volga Tatars and 5 Kazakhs every generation and mix them with Russians , the genetic effect would be negligible. Why you ask? First because external gene flow would be so small that foreign genes could not gain dominance in gene pool, second because those populations would have quite similar genetics with many Russians, Tatars very much, Kazakhs less but still they would be more similar than Naomi Osakas genetics are with the average Japanese genes.

    There has always been small and in my opinion beneficial genetic flow between different populations, when merchants, adventurous individuals etc have travelled and married, but this modern day nightmare stuff where shadowy elites bring foreigners in masse, for god knows why, is a very modern phenomena.

    As I said I am a proponent of a Middle Way.

  276. AltanBakshi says

    Naturally you didn’t even read the wikipedia article.

  277. Tennis is for loners and people whose parents are tennis fanatics.

    I don’t think that is accurate. It’s played by alot of attractive women so surely there is a percentage of men who want to play just for that reason! It’s one of those sports where every household has a tennis racquet and tennis balls…..even if they don’t play.

    In the u.s. the best male athletes generally go: football, then basketball, then baseball. Those are the status sports.

    I thought the top American Universities give plenty of scholarships for Golf and Tennis? You could make the same ( I believe incorrect) arguments for golf as you do for tennis, but the Americans are doing great at Golf. I would assume that Americans have always given those sports you mention priority….but still produced plenty of tennis players

    I think tennis is dying in the United States. I never see anybody on public tennis courts any more.

    Interesting observation

  278. Baseline or serve& volleyer? I always trying to volley and slice and dropshot the ball- and a big fan of surprise underarm serving !

    I am astonished at the number of top tennis players who are very bad at doing the overhead smash shot. For me it was always an easy shot – so I can’t understand why they can’t all do it like Sampras. Both hands for the backhand shot I was never comfortable with – always one-handed is more natural

    As for playing 1.5 hours, for me it is never playing more than 3 sets…which would never go past that amount of time anyway

  279. AltanBakshi says

    To hell with the autocorrect, not Siberia but SEVERIA.

  280. it should have always been Russian interests first.

    It’s always been “Russian interests first”. That’s been the problem.

  281. I was more of a baseliner (or close to the baseline) sort of player. In my experience, it’s always been the taller players that were more adapted to the serve and volley play.

    I had the great pleasure of seeing Pete Sampras play up close once in about 2001. Unexpectedly, I came upon him practicing for about an hour and a crowd of several hundred were gathered around the court waiting for him to finish to get his autograph. In the evening, match play provided an interesting contest of skills pitting Sampras against a strong British player (of Ukrainian descent), Greg Rusedski. Sampras was in top form and beat his opponent solidly blasting him away with his incredible serve. For $35 I used to spend the whole day in sunny Scottsdale Az at the Franklin Templeton Classic Open watching so much incredible talent (Agassi, Hewitt, Haas, Rafter, Ivanisovic & much much more) play sitting in a very small venue with incredible views. Those were the days. This ATP tournament was bought out by some rich Arabs and moved to Qatar. Globalism sucks!

    BTW, it seems to me that you treat me a little bit more civil than you do most of the rest of the guys that regularly post here? I mean, you don’t come on to me with your usual spiel of hardcore vitriolics like an 800 lb. guerilla, and I do exhibit some very pronounced “Ukie” characteristics. What gives?. 🙂

  282. Brandenburg was much poorer and remote in relation to the heartlands of the empire, like the prosperous lands of Rheinland and Bavaria…. If you would know something about the geography of Iberia, you would know that areas ruled by Leon and Kingdom of Aragon(which controller Catalonia), were much more fertile and developed than the arid lands of Castile in the 11th and 12th Century

    Your first diversion failed because you were proven wrong. Brandenburg was not as peripheral as Suzdal, and Castille wasn’t peripheral at all – it is in the very center of Iberia!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/506-Castile_1210.png

    So now you desperately attempt other diversions, about wealth or aridity, which I did not even mention. So let’s get back to the silly and absurd comparison of Moscow’s annexation of Ukraine being a reconstitution of old Rus, to Berlin’s gathering of German lands.

    If you recall, I had written:

    HRE existed for around 1,000 years. It ended in 1806, and Berlin gathered together German lands in 1871 – 65 years after the end of HRE. Rus existed for less than 400 years, until the Mongol conquest in 1240. Muscovy took Ukraine under its control in 1654 – 414 years after Rus disappeared! Longer than the very existence of a Rus state.

    Holy Roman Empire had just de jure unity after the 16th Century, different countries had their own laws, courts, customs, armies etc

    In that case you can push Rus unity back to 1132 (Mstislav the Great was the last ruler of a united realm). And since the Hetmanate kept it’s own army, laws, administration until after Poltava in 1709 you can date the true annexation to that year, according to your new goalposts.

    So in that case, Rus existed as a more or less unified state for only 250 years, and Moscow brought Kiev and East-central Ukraine under its full control 577 years later, more than double the time that Rus even existed as a unified state! And of course the Right Bank was annexed by Moscow even later, and Galicia later still.

    So 1618-1871, its 250 years

    Compare 250 years to 1709-1132, 577 years.

    Compare 656 years of existence of relatively united HRE (1618-962) to 252 years existence of relatively united Rus (1132-880).

    Moreover, while during the period of disunity the German states were more or less independent German states, the former Rus territories were either under the Tatars or parts of Lithuania or PLC, thus magnifying the differences one would expect simply by the passing of time.

    You see now how absurd your comparisons are, between Moscow grabbing Ukraine and Berlin uniting Germany.

    HRM was not United after the Hohenstaufens

    After the Hohenstaufens HRE was about as united as Rus. So if you want to take your silly game even further, you will acknowledge that Rus was never a unified state to begin with, it was simply a bunch of states each ruled by different branches of the same family, at war with each other who occasionally achieved brief periods of unity under some particular rulers, the last of whom died in 1132. For example, Vladimir the Great died in 1015. While Yaroslav the Wise of Novgorod got Kiev in 1019, he did not achieve full control of Rus until 1036. So 21 years since the death of his predecessor. He died 18 years later in 1054, after which his sons ruled together before going to war with each other.

  283. Nope. This is historically untrue. But I hope that it will be corrected if one day Russia has a patriotic government that values the interests of the Russian population above everything else. Then our Ukrainian “brothers ” will have someone to talk to a language that they understand. Not some oligarchic talking head with former KGB employment, but true Russian men who leave no Russian behind.

    As Gogol wrote in the last chapter of Taras Bulba:

    Уже и теперь чуют дальние и близкие народы: подымается из Русской земли свой царь, и не будет в мире силы, которая бы не покорилась ему!..

  284. AltanBakshi says

    By customs I meant customs or tariff zones.

  285. A lot of made-in-America stuff is really made by illegals, or legal Hondurans and Cambodians, etc., who can barely speak English. And it is is paid for by tax dollars set aside for military contracts to equip soldiers in the Middle East or something.

    Made-in-America has largely become a joke.

  286. Severia was part of Lithuania until 1500 when it was taken by Moscow. In 1602 it was divided; the part that is currently part of Ukraine joined PLC and at this time was settled by Ukrainians. It was part of the Hetmanate when it returned to Moscow’s rule in 1654. Mazepa’s capital was in this region. In 1917, it’s residents voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties.

    Sloboda Ukraine was indeed always under the Tsars, you are probably correct that this region was not a part of Rus. However it was primarily settled by Ukrainians moving eastwards, who were given shelter there.

    The Black Sea coast was settled under the Tsars. At the time, Ukrainians participated in its seizure and afterwards were it’s primary settlers (the Ukrainian ethnic heartland is just to the north, while Russia is far away). Taking this region was not a Russian project but a mutual one. It was a not some sort of gift for Ukrainians but earned.

    Donbas and Crimea have little historical connection to Ukraine.

  287. I am astonished at the number of top tennis players who are very bad at doing the overhead smash shot.

    In the last 12 or so of watching Novak Djokovic that is one of the few weaknesses he hasn’t really improved on. All the others – his first serve, second serve, forehand, transition from defence to offence, stamina, even his volleying near the net – he has either improved markedly on or just marginally enough to make a difference. But opponents desperate to remain in a point still give him lobs because they know he rarely puts those away first time.

  288. AltanBakshi says

    Please read more about Holy Roman Empire, even the HRM of the Hohenstaufens lacked unity, maybe you know something about the struggles of Henry the Lion against the Barbarossa? But you don’t know.

    Brandenburg was very poor and peripheral, especially after the 30 years war. Its not my fault that your knowledge of history is lacking. Brandenburg didn’t have any major historically important cultural or political centres, like Regensburg, Worms, Munich, Trier, Bremen etc.

    Oh your obsession with the geographical centre! Then Polotsk should have had best chance to unite the Rus lands, or Kingdom of Saxony(don’t argue about this, that region has always been called by the Germans themselves as Mitteldeutschland).
    Kingdom of Leon had fertile Douro valley. Aragon had the rich lands of Catalonia and Ebro, Castile had very little in comparison and no major population centers before 1085, when they conquered Toledo.

    I will stop with arguing with you, your point was and is that Suzdal was peripheric, my point was, that so what, not an exception in history and often frontier regions have more dynamic and industrious people. People of Qin, Macedonians, Prussians, Castilians were all originally people of the frontiers. It’s not my problem that you don’t know enough about the European or world history.

    One gains nothing by arguing with a fanatic like you.

  289. AltanBakshi says

    One gains nothing by arguing with a fanatic like you.

    Okay this was too harsh, maybe I’m the fanatic? Hahhahahaa!

  290. Don’t forget that Gogol had put out two versions of “Taras Bulba”. The first version was written close to his heart written more with his true brothers in Ukraine in mind, the second one was rewritten with his Czarist censors in mind, trying to please the tastes and needs of his employers. I’s guess that your quote is taken from the second printing? I grew up reading the first edition, that had an immense influence upon my newly found pride in my Ukrainian roots, that is obviously manifest to this day.

    I’d be interested in knowing just how exactly your envisioned “patriotic government” would deal with Ukraine? More censorship, punishment and hostility as in the past? Isn’t it time to come up with a new paradigm based on something more realistic and humane?

  291. Great writers have been known to change things. Coming soon, a Francis Ford Coppola change of the Godfather III, utilizing cuts that weren’t used in its initial release.

    Regarding Taras Bulba, a primary difference was more focus on the love angle part in the second version. The Tsarist censors stuff is anti-Russian BS presented as fact. In later life, Gogol developed a greater appreciation for Russia. This happened after an extended stay in the West and his willing return to Russia.

    In some circles, people can’t willingly become pro-Russian or in Gogol’s case more pro-Russian. For these observers, such an occurrence is due to either being pressured and/or going crazy – the latter being an early day Soviet like psychology.

  292. I’d be interested in knowing just how exactly your envisioned “patriotic government” would deal with Ukraine? More censorship, punishment and hostility as in the past? Isn’t it time to come up with a new paradigm based on something more realistic and humane?

    Ukraine is independent. A Russian patriotic government would deal with Ukraine as it would deal with any other independent country. That is on the basis of the best interests of Russian population.

  293. Philip Owen says

    Stepana Razina is an interesting case. He lead a complicated rebellion. It was not just an outbreak of peasant violence. He and his advisers tried to establish an alternative government. It wasn’t anti Russian. I have been to the headland on the Volga where he is said to have camped.

    Very good map of Greater Germany by the way. I have not seen one that marked so much territory as German in some way. Sometimes the Low Countries, sometimes Italy but never before together at once.

  294. “The suggestions that Gogol’s ideological insertions resulted from external pressure, not from any change in his convictions, is strongly supported by the fact that Gogol did not Russify the entire novel, only a small part of it” By “external pressure” Sirsky refers to the demands of Russian benefactors who granted Gogol financial aid and therefore wanted to be gratified by the writer’s work.”

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20058302?seq=3#metadata_info_tab_contents

    “Transformation of a Ukrainian Cossack into a Russian Warrior: Gogol’s 1842 “Taras Bulba”
    Saera Yoon

  295. Philip Owen says

    The collapse of the ruble helped. Thanks to low grain prices, Russia could well return to its position before World War One when it was the world’s biggest exporer of beef. (The beef herd is still small but growing fast).

    It’s a bit early to declare victory on engines and turbines. A joint venture with GE is replacing the one with Siemens. So far one casting that might be usable for turbine blades has been produced.

  296. Philip Owen says

    Russia better than Germany there.

  297. Nothing there which successfully refutes what I said. Gogol never referred to the main character as a Ukrainian Cossack.

  298. Most members of the Ruthenian high nobility in PLC, were undergoing a process of Polonization, as you yourself very well know.

    They did not cease considering themselves to be Rus princes.

    Year by year most of them started to identify more strongly with the Polish Szlachta and Catholic Church than with the Ruthenian peasants and the Orthodox Church.

    And Polish szlachta at that time identified more with Rus princes than with Polish-speaking peasants. Modern nationalism was still far into the future.

    As for Catholicism – these Rus princes were caretakers of their lands. As their ancestors had converted from backward paganism to Eastern Christianity, so did many of them convert from relatively backward Orthodoxy to Protestantism and later Catholicism. They also settled their territory, built schools, etc.

    “So first uprising was by Cossack nobleman Kosinski against the Rus prince Ostrogsky who had taken his lands:”

    Against Polonized nobles of PLC, which didn’t share same cultural and religious values as the Rus masses,

    Kosinsky’s rebellion was against the Rus prince Konstanty Wasyl Ostrogski. The Rus prince who crushed this Cossack rebellion created the Orthodox Ostrogsky Academy and published the Ostrog Bible :”one of the earliest East Slavic translations of the Bible and the first complete printed edition of the Bible in Church Slavonic, published in Ostroh, in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (modern territory of Ukraine), by the printer Ivan Fyodorov in 1581 with the assistance of the Ruthenian Prince Konstantin Ostrogski.”

    Religion had a a paramount importance in those times, especially in Europe.

    Most peasants didn’t see much of a difference between Uniates and Orthodox in those days. The civil war of petty Rus nobles and Rus peasants led by Rus petty nobleman Khmelnytsky (with massive help from Crimean Tatars) against Rus princes and their Orthodox troops (with massive help from Poles and some German mercenaries) was about serfdom, reduction of noble rights at expense of princes-magnates more than about religion. Religion did play a role but this problem was largely resolved in the PLC by the 1630s. Khmelytsky’s troops and his Crimean allies were plundering Orthodox monastaries while PLC troops were protecting them. There were Orthodox soldiers on both sides. The PLC’s main representative in negotiations and Viovode of Kiev, was an Orthodox Rus magnate, Adam Kysil.

    The Rus lords of the 16th and 17th century PLC probably had more in common with their people than did the French-speaking Russian-German-Baltic aristocrats of the Russian Empire with theirs. Or the Jews, Caucasians and Balts who came to power in Russia after the Revolution.

  299. How could he when the people of Southern Rus hadn’t started referring to themselves as “Ukrainians” until the 19th century? Were the native people of 17th century Ukraine Russians in your opinion? Why had the majority of these people opted to vote for Ukrainian parties in the 1917 – 1921 elections, and not Russian ones, that often held very similar political platforms?

  300. Brandenburg was very poor and peripheral, especially after the 30 years war. Its not my fault that your knowledge of history is lacking. Brandenburg didn’t have any major historically important cultural or political centres, like Regensburg, Worms, Munich, Trier, Bremen etc.

    More diversions onto irrelevant points because you are wrong?

    Oh your obsession with the geographical centre!

    The obsession is yours. I mentioned that Suzdal was a peripheral part of Rus a few times, but you keep bringing it up.

    The important thing, that you avoid with your diversions, is that Rus existed as a state for a relatively brief period of time, it was an instable decentralized state to begin with, and that the parts of Rus that became Russia and Ukraine spent far more time separate from each other than they did together within Rus. The Suzdal wasn’t even a central part of this state is just icing on the cake. The comparison with Germany is thus really silly because the HRE lasted centuries longer than Rus and because the gap between the HRE’s dissolution and the creation of a united Germany was far shorter. And this idea of ancient Rus binding Ukraine and Russia is mostly ridiculous modern mythology, although useful one for both Russian imperialists and ethnic Ukrainian careerists within the Russian state.

    , Castilians were all originally people of the frontiers.

    Castille, always in the middle of Christian Spain. Apparently your grasp of geography is as poor as your grasp of history:

    Castille, in the middle of non-Muslim Spain:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Map_Iberian_Peninsula_1037-es.svg/425px-Map_Iberian_Peninsula_1037-es.svg.png

    As Christian Spain, expanded, Castille still in the middle:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/506-Castile_1210.png/250px-506-Castile_1210.png

    Even further:

    https://about-history.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/History-of-the-Kingdom-of-Aragon.jpg

  301. And this idea of ancient Rus binding Ukraine and Russia is mostly ridiculous modern mythology, although useful one for both Russian imperialists and ethnic Ukrainian careerists within the Russian state.

    To add to this point, the commonality of both peoples being Slavs is more important than the Rus state (and I realize that the idea of Slavophilia was also being abused by Russian nationalists).

  302. How could he when the people of Southern Rus hadn’t started referring to themselves as “Ukrainians” until the 19th century?

    No disagreement there. Brought it up relative to what your source stated.

    Were the native people of 17th century Ukraine Russians in your opinion?

    They were a part of the Rus legacy which includes Russians and Belarusians.

    Why had the majority of these people opted to vote for Ukrainian parties in the 1917 – 1921 elections, and not Russian ones, that often held very similar political platforms?

    Along the lines of regional assertiveness, combined with the occupying Central Powers during the WW I period not favoring pro-Russian positions. After WW I, there were people who could say they were of Ukrainian background (whether they identified as such or otherwise) who supported either the Reds or Whites. There were also the on the fence Ukrainians and the separatist Petliura. The latter had limited appeal as evidenced by his becoming a puppet of Pilsudski, which contributed to the Galician Ukrainians en masse coming under the command of the Russian Whites. At that juncture, it wasn’t uncommon among Galician Ukrainian ranks to consider a loose union with Russia in a hypothetical Bolshevik defeat.

    It’s a tug of war involving different views. In more recent times, Kravchuk’s Russia bashing during his bid against Kuchma (who ran a pro-Russian stance at the time) didn’t help the former to victory. Taras Kuzio’s presentation of Yushchenko’s presidency representing a Ukrainian drift away from Russia was challenged a short time later with Yanukovych’s winning that office. Poroshenko took a svido platform and lost to Zelensky.

    Upon winning, Kuchma, Yanukovych and Zelensky drifted somewhat closer to the svido view. Such a move in conjunction with what they campaigned on relative to their respective opponent, acknowledges a diversity of opinions and the attempt to try to get as much a broad based support as possible.

  303. And this idea of ancient Rus binding Ukraine and Russia is mostly ridiculous modern mythology, although useful one for both Russian imperialists and ethnic Ukrainian careerists within the Russian state.

    The greater dubious mythology is the one going to the past – hyping Russo-Ukrainian cultural and historical differences (real, exaggerated and otherwise) from what they actually were.

  304. AnonFromTN says

    Have you ever tried to be realistic? Humans come from different tribes. This is a fact of life that cannot be changed. So, any “my tribe is better than your tribe” ideology is a dead end, leading to needless slaughter of members of both tribes (e.g., current Karabakh conflict).

    Only something that lifts itself above this primeval worldview has a chance to inspire sufficient number of civilized people to matter and survive.

    If Russianness is a social construct, why do you care that a group of them got burned alive in Odessa for being Russian? After all, Russianness is a “state of mind”, they should have just changed “states of mind” to avoid dying.

    I never said that Russianness is a social construct. I said that it’s a state of mind (in fact, these are not my own words, but one of Russian sayings). Social construct means a lie, whereas the state of mind is real. Those people burnt to death by Ukies (with tribal mentality you advocate) could not help being human, and therefore above tribal. That’s what caused the hatred of the primeval subhumans who murdered them.

  305. AnonFromTN says

    There is a reason the first rule of psychiatry is “never argue with a patient”. Even though I am not an MD, I intend to follow it.

  306. Unlike in Donetsk, where pro were outnumbered and dispersed after one of theirs was killed, in Odessa the anti were outnumbered and were chased away

    So, how many Ukies were burnt alive by humans in Donetsk?

  307. Donetsk pro-Russians murdered one and the rest of the pro-Ukrainians fled, without taking a stand in a building.

  308. Those people burnt to death by Ukies (with tribal mentality you advocate) could not help being human, and therefore above tribal.

    They were equally tribal, one side was unlucky and stupid enough to get into a mutual fight with Molotov cocktails while in a building. People throwing Molotov cocktails from the building at the people around it:

    That’s what caused the hatred of the primeval subhumans who murdered them.

    After it became apparent that the situation had turned deadly, many in the crowd outside tried to save the people inside, and some of them succeeded, which was the decent thing to do.

    Start at 6:08:

    an exchange between two people, where one says: “But they’re people!”; the other “so what?” , and the first responds: “games are games, but shit, nobody wants people to die”.

    Whether some disagreed or were simply thoughtless is hard to say, but certainly despite the fire raging, and the fact that people were stuck, you can see a couple of Molotov cocktails still being thrown. (around 7.00 , just after Dibrov says that the storming of the building has gradually turned into an operation to save those stuck.

    At 9.07 there is great applause from below as they finally succeed in getting a rope to two people on the window ledge.

    On the other hand, as Dibrov points out (around 9.40) while efforts are underway to rescue people others are continuing to throw stones and burning things from the roof of the building.

    At 11.00 a young man with a red jacket flings a Molotov cocktail at the part of the building where the rescue attempt is just beginning. There is outrage from people around who scream at him angrily (and as Dibrov tells his viewers a little later, came close to beating him up).

    Just after 13.00 there is again applause, this time because some of the pro-unity activists have managed to find some scaffolding which they drag up to the building to help with the rescue.

    One young man then climbs onto the scaffolding and after a couple of attempts manages to throw the rope high enough for the people a floor above to catch. It is only as this operation is underway that a fire engine finally turns up. Dibrov expresses the hope that they won’t be forced to leave by the Molotov cocktails being thrown from the roof. The cheers and chanting “Ukraina!” begin as the first people are saved.

    Worth noting that Dibrov, streaming throughout the events, even at this stage is still repeating the hope that all is now well and that there will have been no casualties. The number of people in the building and the scale of the disaster was simply unknown.

    27.00 last people being evacuated to cheers from those outside

  309. It sounds to me that you think that because the ethnonym “Ukrainian” wasn’t in common use until the 19th century that whatever went on before this time wasn’t actually Ukrainian history. You do realize that starting in the late 17th and into the 18th century Ukrainian lands were referred to as “Ukraine” within official court correspondence between the chancellery of the Hetmanate and the Russian royal court? That the history of the Hetmanate is in fact Ukrainian history?

  310. I’m aware that “Russia” was used well before that. “Ukraine” as in a “frontier” or “borderland” doesn’t by default automatically become a separate entity with no ties to the rest of what comprised Rus. Ivan the Terrible and the czar after him were Riuriks.

    All this is said without my having denied the development of a separate Ukriian identity.

  311. Blinky Bill says

    As the Great Bifurcation speeds up, that will increasingly be the case. East Asia drove Germany’s growth over the last decade and will drive Russia’s over the next decade. The Russians must take advantage of this opportunity!

  312. AltanBakshi says

    For you there is no truth. Only weapons that you can yield in your guest towards proving the immense separateness of the Ukrainians and Russians. As we see once again, now when you even employ the Soviet Union in your analogies concerning 16th and 17th Century PLC, completely anachronistic way to make comparisons, and the debate has now lost its cohesion. Now I can claim that the Varyag Rus of the 9th Century had less common with their subjects than the Soviet leadership in the 20s. See what happens when one lowers standards in pursuit of proving one’s point?
    Because you are of Uniate descent, of course you don’t see no problem in the Polonization of the nobles of old Grand Duchy of Lithuania, strange that even Lithuanians were worried about that, even though they shared the Catholic faith of the Poles. Because of that encroaching Polonization Lithuania had war with the Poland in the 1920 and their relations were so bad that Lithuania had warmer relations with the Soviet Union than with the Poland in the 20s and 30s. Yes most of Lithuanian nobility Polonized and started to feel more Polish than Lithuanian, like Pilsudski, who was of Lithuanian descent. Same happened with many members of Ukrainian and Belarussian High nobility, they felt more Polish than Rus, as can seen by their behaviour during the Polish revolts of 1830 and 1863, when the vast majority of Orthodox peasantry was totally disinterested in revolting. You once again prove that you are just a product of Polish colonisation. You can’t even admit that in the history we’re PLC would have been successful, the Ukraine proper would have just been a periphery of the Greater Poland.

    I will not continue this debate with you anymore. I don’t see a point, because I don’t believe that I can change your opinion, nor do I believe that you can change mine, so once again this is futile.

    As long as you deny strong self identification with religion in Europe before the enlightenment, so long you can not understand the history of the Europe, but you will be forever see everything through the lenses of 19th Century petty nationalism… Which by the way was popular among the liberals of those times.

  313. AltanBakshi says

    What I don’t get why for AP it’s a such maniacally important thing that some parts of Ukraine and Russia were separated for centuries, yes they were but then they were united for centuries too. Quite normal in the history of the Europe. Like Scania/Scane and Denmark, people there were almost thousand years part of the Denmark, but Sweden annexed those lands in the mid 17th Century. Even now many people there feel and talk more Danish than Swedish.

    The Swedish authorities resorted to extreme measures against the 17th-century rebels who were described as snapphanar, a term used for raiding enemy soldiers or bandits. The punishments included the use of impalement breaking on the wheel, as well as the nailing of bodies to church doors. In that way, it could take four to five days before the victim died.[34]

    Last revolts against the Swedish rule were in the early 19th Century. People there were terrorised for generations. Russian empire was very benevolent compared to the Swedes or English in the past, oh those two nations punished rebels and separatists in ways that would have been quite extreme in the orient.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered

    For the AP there are political motives and something called truth is just a silly and malleable thing that has only value by how it can be employed for the actualization of those political objectives. Or it has just a secondary value in comparison with the political goals set by the AP.

  314. Blinky Bill says

    I much prefer borscht. However, virtually every cook makes a different borscht. The official variety includes using different meats: beef, pork, chicken, even duck, but the personal touch of a cook changes borscht with the same meat.

    I just had lamb borscht. My absolute favourite! Not enough potatoes though.

  315. At home we only use beef in the Borscht. And you absolutely need to have a large bone with marrow inside, of the thick and greasy yellowish white kind. You boil the meat and the bone at least an hour to make a broth before you start adding the vegetables.

  316. My mother’s borshch almost always included pork or sometimes chicken. My sister, interestingly enough, includes beef into her borshch. Whatever meat that I include, I always start out by cooking the meat and any bones first, as yourself, to get the most flavor out of the marrow. My experience is that most Ukrainians primarily use pork when cooking borshch, not beef. I hardly ever have experienced eating beef in Ukraine, perhaps it’s more common in Russia?

    Why use the superfluous “t” when writing about borshch? No Slav that I know of ever pronounce the word with a “t” at the end. I’m starting a movement to correct this silly mistake – it hurts my ears every time that I hear it. 🙁

  317. Blinky Bill says

    Auto correct.

  318. Post-hoc lies Ukies push won’t wash. The events in Odessa were broadcast live in real time on Ukie TV (Savik Shuster show). Not a single humane action was taken by Ukies. The reaction of the crowd that surrounded burning trade union building and of the crowd in Shuster’s studio was pretty much what you’d expect from a troop of chimps. Broadcast footage of the thugs surrounding burning building with people in it singing Ukrainian anthem is a fitting symbol of post-coup Ukraine. You can lie until you are blue in the face and show faked footage created by splicing pieces together, but the evidence is incontrovertible.

    As a biologist, I can tell you this.
    Fish learns after 200 repeats.
    Rats learn after 5-7 repeats.
    Monkeys are smarter than rats.
    Humans are smarter than other monkeys.
    So, even if Ukies showed their true colors only once, that would be enough for me.

  319. I posted video evidence, you post false assertions. There is a long video where you and others can see for yourselves.

  320. AltanBakshi says

    I thought thought you were a Chinese? Russo-Chinese mix? Interesting, like some Qing bannermen were. Although I think they mixed with Mongols and Manchus.

    Oh the Great Qing, those were the good days, at least before Brits came and spoiled the party.

  321. Blinky Bill says
  322. Blinky Bill says

    Not my people but interesting nonetheless.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albazinians

    Mine came much later.

  323. “auto correct” needs to be corrected, this is one of the main goals of my campaign. Are you guys with me?

    It’s “борщ” not “борщт “. 🙂

  324. Russia, before it settled on its current appellation went through several changes as well: Grand Duchy of Muscovy (1263-1547), the Russian kingdom (1547-1721), the Russian Empire (1721-1917), Soviet Russia (1917-1922), the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic (1922-1991), and the Russian Federation (since 1991). Lot’s of changes have occurred over the last millennia. and no country today is about to change its name back to Rus, a loose association of principalities, often at war amongst each other, that shared a ruling dynasty of Scandinavian origin.

  325. AnonFromTN says

    Typical Ukie “evidence”: cooked videos, photoshopped photos, hot air. The murder of the people in Odessa and the murder of Oles Buzina in Kiev have a lot in common: crazed subhumans kill humans because they hate humans for their superiority.

  326. AnonFromTN says

    It’s “борщ” not “борщт “.

    Agree 100%. English spelling borscht is wrong. It should be “borshch”.

  327. AltanBakshi says

    At least you are moderate and wise regarding the question of ownership of Crimea and Donbass. Do I understand you correctly that you believe that Russia has better claim on those lands? If so then you are not and cant be a fanatic, although you harbor a strong belief in the essential distinctiveness of the Ukrainian and Russian nations. But Ukrainianness too is a spectrum of different narratives and historical experiences. Yes Galicians are very distinct from Russians, but you cant claim that people of Belgorod or Kursk are distinctive from the people of Harkov? Or that people of Chernigov(my ears hurt when I hear Chernihiv) and Sumy are distinct from the people of Starodub and Bryansk, or that the people of Zaporozhye are distinct from the people of Donbass. Or can you?

  328. AltanBakshi says

    Yul Brenner? So you are at least half Russian.

    Yes I know Albazinians, I have read some very good books about the Qing in the last couple years, like the Manchu way by the Mark Elliott and the Empire of the Emptiness by Patricia Berger, among others.

    There was a very interesting system of Manchu apartheid in China, truly Manchus were the masters and Mongols their junior partners in the control of China and the Steppes.

  329. Blinky Bill says

    Not a fan of Mark Elliott’s work. But agree with your other points.

  330. For you there is no truth. Only weapons

    Once again you attribute to me, your own faults. While no one is perfect and I make rare mistakes, my posts have been truthful while yours (as I have shown) have repeatedly not been so.

    proving the immense separateness of the Ukrainians and Russians

    Already in your first sentence you made an untruth. I never claimed Ukrainian and Russian separateness was “immense.”

    As we see once again, now when you even employ the Soviet Union in your analogies concerning 16th and 17th Century PLC,

    You avoid the facts I provided and instead choose to focus on an offhand (but correct) comment I made, that the Rus nobles of the PLC probably had more in common with their people than did the Hewish, Caucasian, and Baltic overlords of the USSR with the people whom they ruled.

    of course you don’t see no problem in the Polonization of the nobles of old Grand Duchy of Lithuania, strange that even Lithuanians were worried about that, even though they shared the Catholic faith of the Poles. Because of that encroaching Polonization Lithuania had war with the Poland in the 1920

    You falsely accused me of anachronism and here you are, mixing the 20th century with the 16th or 17th.

    I’ll remind you that in the 16th century Poles, Lithuanians and Rus warred together against Muscovites in epic battles such as Orsha.

    Ukrainian and Belarussian High nobility, they felt more Polish than Rus, as can seen by their behaviour during the Polish revolts of 1830 and 1863, when the vast majority of Orthodox peasantry was totally disinterested in revolting

    Nor did they resist the rebels in any large scale, either. However one exception is as in Volyn, where Orthodox Rusyn peasants fought for Edmund Rozycki whom they called “Batko”. Less than 100 years later their descendants would be taught nationalism and would be slaughtering Poles and Catholics.

    You can’t even admit that in the history we’re PLC would have been successful, the Ukraine proper would have just been a periphery of the Greater Poland.

    Doubtful. The ratio of Rus to Poles in PLC was higher than Little Russians to Great Russians in Russia so assimilation would have been less. Rus lords were among the richest of the nobility within the PLC.

    As long as you deny strong self identification with religion in Europe before the enlightenment

    Another example of your false approach to truth. I wrote: “ Religion did play a role but this problem was largely resolved in the PLC by the 1630s.” So indeed Orthodox did slaughter Catholics during Khmelnytsky’s uprising.

    But, if you knew a little about the history of this region, you would be familiar with these aspects of religion’s role (or non-role) although you ignored the facts I provided:

    -Orthodox Rus prince Ostrogsky leading Orthodox and Catholics against Orthodox Moscow

    -Orthodox Sahaidachny fighting alongside Catholics against Orthodox Moscow and Muslim Ottomans

    -Orthodox Khmelnytskfy fighting alongside Muslim Tatars against Catholic and Orthodox PLC forces

    -Orthodox Khmelnytsky’s army looting Orthodox monasteries while PLC was defending them

    • PLC vioivode of Kiev and it’s negotiator with Khmelnytsky was an Orthodox Rus nobleman
    • Orthodox Cossack rebel Kosinsky was crushed by Orthodox prince Ostrogsky, sponsor of Ostroh Bible and Orthodox churches and monasteries, on behalf of the PLC

    You see, the truth is more complicated.

  331. A timely and cogent regurgitation of your earlier thoughts regarding this topic. I do wish that AltanBakshi would try to address some of your specific points without resorting to generic formulations that flounder in the midst of time (“here you are, mixing the 20th century with the 16th or 17th”). It’s obvious that he’s not as familiar with the canon of history that you’re reviewing.

  332. Blinky Bill says

    Does the English spelling have anything to do with the Russian Mennonites or Yiddish? How is it pronounced by them?

  333. Repeating lies about videos being “cooked” don’t make the lies true.

  334. AltanBakshi says

    For now you get the last word, although the Lithuanian problem of Polonized nobles was already acute in the 19th Century. As were the Polonized nobles in the Russian partition of the Poland before the 1863.
    What about the Haidamaky revolts, they clearly targeted against Catholic Polish and Ruthenian members of Szlachta.

    Yes I accused you of anachronism and used it against you!

    On a later date I will answer more specifically, too tired for now, you probably know more about the particular history of the region than me, but it does not mean automatically that you have a more objective and less politically motivated view than mine. It has been a long time when I last time studied the history of the region, it has always been a secondary interest for me, but I do remember that many, or most Orthodox clergy resisted or were against the Polish rule and that many of noble converts to Catholicism were turncoats and despised by the commopeople. Also remember that I strongly differentiate between the rule of the PLC and the rule of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania before the union of the Lublin. Before the union Lithuanian state was quite neutral or even benevolent towards its Orthodox subjects.

    There are also many points of mine that you have just dropped and never answered, although I am similar in that regards.

    But anyway I will answer more thorougly on a later date. At the moment I am preoccupied with other things.

  335. AnonFromTN says

    Does the English spelling have anything to do with the Russian Mennonites or Yiddish? How is it pronounced by them?

    I have no idea. That “t” is a total mystery to me. I strongly suspect it came from British or American “experts” on Russia and Ukraine who traditionally know about them as much as about Republic of Palau. Just look at the US or UK foreign policy.

  336. Dr. Charles Fhandrich says

    It is beyond belief how so many leftist forums like Yahoo, to cite just one example, are now reporting political news. Every single vile and violent actions now being perpetrated by democratic party connected groups, are being blamed on conservative connected groups. If the attempted kidnapping of politicians, for example, have been proved to have been attempted by groups that sympathize with the democrat party, the establishment media blames it on republican party connected groups and so called “white supremacists”, people who are as hard to find as trying to find gold in your backyard. It’s so utterly sickening, the lies, duplicity and sheer ugliness of the U.S. establishment media.

  337. I do remember that many, or most Orthodox clergy resisted or were against the Polish rule and that many of noble converts to Catholicism were turncoats and despised by the commopeople.

    Roughly speaking (I am a bit busy at the moment):

    “Polish” rule is incorrect. It was rule by the szlachta. In Ukraine this meant mostly rule by local Rus lords. Warsaw wasn’t dictating policy towards them, they had a major say regarding policies. Indeed, these Rus lords often set the policy of the entire PLC. The war against Moscow was a project by Rus lords wanting to gather other Rus lands. Ironically, if they had succeeded and Moscow had remained within PLC it would have been a Slavic superstate dominated by Rus lords, ethnic Poles would simply have been outnumbered.

    Pro-Catholic policies were the work of these Rus lords, for whom Catholicism meant progress and state-building. Just as in the case of their ancestors who had converted Rus from paganism to Eastern Christianity, they hoped Catholicism would bring Western modernization into their patrimony. So Prince Wisniowecki built towns and settlements, kept the Tatars out, and also built Catholic cathedrals and schools (while also funding Orthodox ones on his lands). He converted to Catholicism from Orthodoxy, but led a “club” of Rus lords within the PLC who pursued their interests; his son would ascend the Polish throne. I would make a rough analogy to Peter I of Russia, who chose not Catholicism but a sort of Enlightenment massive reform of his country’s Church in the course of his own modernization project.

    Policies towards Orthodoxy within Poland/PLC were good until the Counterreformation, then bad (a major mistake), but once again good around 1620-1630. At this time Orthodox monasteries were lavishly funded, schools were built, etc. Kiev Academy was an intellectual center of the Orthodox world, Orthodoxy was experiencing a resurgence within the PLC. Khmelnytsky’s revolt in 1648 was not about religion but about the rights of petty gentry and peasants against the Rus lords; as I showed there were Orthodox on both sides in that war. It was Catholic-Orthodox PLC vs. Orthodox-Muslim Khmelnytsky.

    In the 18th century policies towards Orthodoxy were again bad, because:

    1. Loss of Left Bank meant balance of power shifted against Orthodox within PLC; they were now much fewer in number within PLC (millions of Orthodox were no longer within PLC) and much of their elites had left, as the Left Bank and Kiev had been centers of Orthodoxy
    2. Slaughter of Catholics by Orthodox during Khmelnytsky’s revolt resulted in a lot of bad feelings

    3. Russia was now using Orthodoxy against PLC (before that, Orthodox in PLC were not allies with Moscow); just as Russia persecuted Catholics in Ukraine once it annexed it in fear of Catholic anti-Russian insurgency, so in the late-stage PLC Orthodoxy was persecuted.

    (1) and (2) were clearly the result of Khmelnytsky’s revolt, they were not essential to PLC nor features of PLC prior to the revolt.

    Before the union Lithuanian state was quite neutral or even benevolent towards its Orthodox subjects.

    Correct. As was PLC at certain times but not others.

  338. Philip Owen says

    Nobody in this debate is discussing Novgorod. This another version of Rus and for centuries the leading one.

  339. Philip Owen says

    This is a link to the best thought out British cultural event sponsored by the Embassy that I have seen. Ever. It will only be attractive to Russian speakers. I took the “What kind of Briton are you?” test. I came out Irish! Facing the future, so globalist.

    https://dea.theoryandpractice.ru/

  340. Philip Owen says

    Persoanl names and well known names of cutural objects are spelt with prereform spellings. So Tschaikovsky. Щ has always led to difficulty, especially at the end of a word.

  341. You seem relatively new to these thread discussions, which are pretty much repeats of what was previously communicated. There’s good reason why modern day Russia, Ukraine and Belarus feel historically attached to Rus in a way that Poland doesn’t.

    The Vyhovsky and Mazepa opposition to Russia flopped for good measure because many and seemingly most of the population on the land in their domain didn’t go along with them – instead preferring Russia. When Napoleon attacked Russia, over 90,000 Poles joined him. In contrast, the ancestors of modern day Ukrainians were mostly supportive of Russia. Russian forces en route to Hungary in the late 1840s were well received by the ancestors of the west Ukrainians. I already discussed the Russian Civil War period at this thread. When Soviet forces entered the Polish ruled part of what’s now known as western Ukraine, the west Ukrainians overwhelmingly didn’t fight for Poland. Soviet heavy handedness towards the west Ukrainians played a good part in the anti-Soviet stance of many west Ukrainians.

    The love affair with PLC (Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) is to a great extent Polish nationalist inspired. Along with the ancestors of modern day Ukrainians, many Lithuanians soured on it.

  342. When Napoleon attacked Russia, over 90,000 Poles joined him. In contrast, the ancestors of modern day Ukrainians were mostly supportive of Russia.

    Major difference – Napoleon didn’t go through Ukraine

    Russian forces en route to Hungary in the late 1840s were well received by the ancestors of the west Ukrainians.

    At that time Austrians whom Rusyns/Ukrainians liked were allied to Russians, while Hungarians (who rebelled against Austrians) mistreated Rusyns under their rule.

  343. AnonFromTN says

    Yes, Tschaikovsky should have been “Chaikovsky”, as the first letter and sound in his last name is “Ч”. While “Щ” is difficult for an English-speaker, it is a combination of two sounds, “ш” and “ч”, which are usually transliterated as “sh” and “ch”, so “борщ” should be spelled “borshch”. There is no imaginable source of “t” in that word.

  344. AnonFromTN says

    It’s so utterly sickening, the lies, duplicity and sheer ugliness of the U.S. establishment media.

    Lugenpresse best describes it. “Free” press, anyone?

  345. Do I understand you correctly that you believe that Russia has better claim on those lands?

    Yes.

    But Ukrainianness too is a spectrum of different narratives and historical experiences. Yes Galicians are very distinct from Russians, but you cant claim that people of Belgorod or Kursk are distinctive from the people of Harkov?

    Just because blacks and whites produce mixed-race people, does not mean that there do not exist discrete black and white peoples. Similarly, the existence of border zones where people are similar do not prove that different nations to not exist. There is also a mix between Ukrainians and Poles in the far West, this does not suggest that Poles and Ukrainians aren’t different peoples.

    But here is something interesting. Ukrainians and Russians are very similar genetically. Yet, there are also distinct (if very slight) differences, even between ethnic Ukrainians in Belgorod and ethnic Russians in Belgorod. That is, ethnic Ukrainians from Belgorod region are genetically, measurably closer to ethnic Ukrainians form Lviv region than they are to their ethnic Russian neighbors:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.3103/S0095452715040106

    …A detailed analysis of highly informative Y chromosome markers showed that both nations retain the ethnic specificity of their gene pools after 3.5 centuries of coexistence in the same historical territory: the Ukrainian populations are similar to the rest of Ukraine, and Russian populations gravitate towards the south of European Russia.

    https://i.imgur.com/ETnKYkI.jpg

  346. Major difference – Napoleon didn’t go through Ukraine

    Major difference – in 1812, the ancestors of present day Ukrainians weren’t anti-Russian like the Poles. If they were so anti-Russian, they would’ve taken advantage of Napoleon’s attack.

    At that time Austrians whom Rusyns/Ukrainians liked were allied to Russians, while Hungarians (who rebelled against Austrians) mistreated Rusyns under their rule.

    Doesn’t take away from the pro-Russian sentiment at the time. Know someone whose parents came from A-H western Ukraine to the US in the early quarter of the 1900s. Upon doing so, they (as he put it) reconverted to the ROC from the Greek Catholic denomination. He recalls his father saying he spoke with Cossack and Cherkess border guards about seeking a future reunited Russia.

  347. AltanBakshi says

    But is Mikhail writing about the Rus of the Zakarpattia, or about the Galicians, who were not ruled by Hungarians? After all Rusyns were a marginal group compared to Galicians under the Habsburgs. Yes, yes I know that many Eastern Slovakians of those times identified as Rusyn, but still.

  348. AltanBakshi says

    I dont accept your European and Negro argument as valid analogy regarding the differences between Ukrainians and Russians. Too far fetched once again. Too out of the context.

    From my personal experience I know that Eastern Slovakia differed greatly from Ukraine, more than Latvia does differ from Russia. I have not been in Poland, but I have met Polish, Ukrainians and Russians many times in my life, and Ukrainians and Russians were almost indistinguishable from each other, by their behaviour and customs. I have never been to Romania and Moldova, but I think that its reasonable to argue that the cultural and genetic difference between Romania and Ukraine is larger than between Slovakia and Ukraine.

  349. Grain prices are completely unrelated to beef production in Russia, its main competitive advantage in this sphere is vast tracts of unused, essentially free land, where cattle can roam and graze. Grain is fed to cattle usually only in the last weeks before slaughter to fatten them up, however this practice in Russia is expensive and, therefore, limited to premium “marbled” products.

    This is the reverse situation to, say, the US where land is expensive and so feed lots are more economical. In the US, grass fed is the premium product, which trades at a higher price than grain fed (really grain finished).

  350. Major difference – in 1812, the ancestors of present day Ukrainians weren’t anti-Russian like the Poles. If they were so anti-Russian, they would’ve taken advantage of Napoleon’s attack

    They were not as anti-Russian as the Poles but they were not enthusiastically pro-Russian either. Without Napoleón’s army in Ukraine, rebellion would be more difficult. Also, although not enthusiastic about Russian rule they did not want to replace Russian rule with Polish rule. So there was ambivalence.

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CN%5CA%5CNapoleonBonaparte.htm

    During the Napoleonic invasion Ukraine supplied to the Russian military much of its grain, fodder, and horses, and 22 Ukrainian Cossack cavalry regiments and a huge Ukrainian levy en masse (nearly 75,000 men) fought in the Russian ranks (see Ukrainian regiments in 1812). The Ukrainian gentry, however, organized the levy reluctantly. At their assemblies in Chernihiv and Poltava they resolved to lower the number of recruits from 4 to 1 per 100 inhabitants, and they unwillingly donated money to Russia’s military cause. Other Ukrainian notables (eg, Archbishop Varlaam Shyshatsky) even openly supported Napoleon’s invasion and were later punished as a result. During the ill-fated winter retreat of Napoleon’s army, attempts to penetrate from Belarus into the gubernias of Left-Bank Ukraine were effectively thwarted by Ukrainian forces. The Ukrainian gentry became alarmed at Napoleon’s Polish plans and in the end remained loyal to Russia.

  351. Quite interesting information here. Actually, kind of amazing. It would be interesting to hear Anon4 chime in here, as he knows quite a bit about genetics?

  352. Bottom line is that they were more pro-Russian than anti-Russian.

  353. I dont accept your European and Negro argument as valid analogy regarding the differences between Ukrainians and Russians. Too far fetched once again. Too out of the context.

    You miss the point because you are trying to focus on “out of context.” If even two very different peoples (Africans and Europeans) can produce a mixed group, so can two similar peoples (Ukrainians and Russians). Existence of mixed groups does not disprove that the peoples those groups are mixed from are not different.

    From my personal experience I know that Eastern Slovakia differed greatly from Ukraine, more than Latvia does differ from Russia

    Differ from Zakarpattiya? There are also Lemkos.

    I have met Polish, Ukrainians and Russians many times in my life, and Ukrainians and Russians were almost indistinguishable from each other, by their behaviour and customs

    It depends on where in Ukraine they are from.

    I have never been to Romania and Moldova, but I think that its reasonable to argue that the cultural and genetic difference between Romania and Ukraine is larger than between Slovakia and Ukraine.

    Agreed.

  354. As it pertains to DNA, an issue with genetics is that there’re difference types of tests which have lead to varying results and whole populations in any given area who haven’t taken them – combined with some agendacratic individuals looking to prove a point to confirm with their bias.

  355. The Galicians were loyal to Austria and at that time Russia and Austria were allies; Russian troops came to help the Austrians against the Hungarians. Also (and related) Austria was strongly supporting pro-Russian sentiments in Galicia at that time as a counterweight to people-Polish sympathies; Austria had been alarmed by Galician Rusyn volunteers fighting alongside Polish rebels against Russians in 1831.

    Of course, a few decades later when Austria and Russia became rivals the Austrians supported Ukrainian nationalists and opposed pro-Russians among the Galicians.

  356. The study I cited included Russian geneticists including renowned Russian specialist Balanovsky.

  357. Doesn’t successfully refute the fact that the different DNA testing out there have

    • periodically come up with different results

    • many if not most individuals in a given area having not taken all or any of them.

  358. The real test would have been if the French army had marched through Ukraine and had declared a resurrected Hetmanate, as was done with Poland. There would have been a high likelihood of “betrayal” in such a case.

    As it was, the Ukrainians did try to take advantage of the situation by forming their own army, and even the Russians did not fully trust the Ukrainians:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CU%5CK%5CUkrainianregimentsin1812.htm

    The governor-general of Left-Bank Ukraine, Prince Yakov Lobanov-Rostovsky, permitted a levy en masse and the formation of regular Cossack regiments and promised to keep the Cossack units after the war as a permanent Cossack army. Influential Ukrainian leaders, such as Dmytro Troshchynsky and Vasyl Kapnist, persuaded the governor-general to give the regiments a Ukrainian character. The organizational scheme of the Cossack regiments was drafted by Senator Mykhailo P. Myklashevsky. In addition to Cossacks serfs volunteered for service to escape from their oppressive condition. Most of the regiments raised by the levy en masse came from the Poltava region and the Chernihiv region. Cossack regiments, under the command of Count de Witte, also came from Kyiv gubernia and Podilia. Among the organizers of the Cossack regiments in Poltava gubernia was Ivan Kotliarevsky. The total number of troops, peasant and Cossack, was almost 75,000. They were supported (provided with horses, arms, uniforms, and supplies) mostly by the local population. The Russian command did not trust the Ukrainian regiments; hence, it did not use them at the front in Russia, but gave them an auxiliary role.

  359. – many if not most individuals in a given area having not taken all or any of them.

    Are you suggesting that any genetic research that uses a sample rather than most of an entire population is somehow suspect? LOL.

    ::::::::::::;:

    Conclusions of experts published in peer-reviewed journal are better than empty speculations by a random internet commenter.

  360. The real test would have been if the French army had marched through Ukraine and had declared a resurrected Hetmanate, as was done with Poland. There would have been a high likelihood of “betrayal” in such a case.

    The bottom line is that the territory making up Russian Empire Ukraine didn’t rise up against Russia, when the latter was on the ropes.

    The Russian command did not trust the Ukrainian regiments; hence, it did not use them at the front in Russia, but gave them an auxiliary role.

    Subjective and questionable opinion, suggestively presented as fact, along the lines of the stated svido motivated BS about Gogol and some other Russia-Ukraine related topics.

    The Russian forces directly involved in the war against Napoleon were obviously comfortable with what they had in terms of familiarity. When a given team gets on a winning streak, it can be reluctant to try new things out.

    BTW, the aforementioned Myklashevsky and his family weren’t known for being anti-Russian.

  361. Another foolish set of comments from you – a mere anonymous commenter. The aforementioned experts don’t apparently deny the matter of accuracy relating to the points mentioned.

    Somewhat reminded of a medical science exchange I had with someone on flu shots and corona-virus vaccines. At one time, it was readily accepted to prescribe antibiotics for the common cold on the premise that it had the support of medical science. Later, it was concluded that this route is unnecessarily detrimental.

  362. The bottom line is that the territory making up Russian Empire Ukraine didn’t rise up against Russia, when the latter was on the ropes

    Without the French there, an uprising would be risky. So there is no direct comparison to the Poles. I suspect that if the French had gone through Ukraine, the Little Russians would not have been as anti-Russian as the Poles but much more anti-Russian than you would have liked.

    BTW, the aforementioned Myklashevsky and his family weren’t known for being anti-Russian.

    Myklashevsky was a Ukrainian autonomist who defended Ukrainian interests in Saint Petersburg and kept contact with the Novhorod-Siverskyi patriotic circle.*In 1812 he submitted a controversial proposal for the reintroduction of Cossack regiments in Left-Bank Ukraine that would include state peasants in their ranks. He was forced to retire in 1818, and settled on his Ponurivka estate. There he created a center of Ukrainian culture, politics, and historical study (Istoriia Rusov was written there) and established a profitable woolens factory. Myklashevsky was opposed to serfdom and drafted a number of proposals aimed at bettering the lot of the peasantry.

    • These guys were doing things like secretly publishing Mazepist articles, reaching out to Berlin, etc.
  363. And oh, about his family:

    http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CM%5CY%5CMyklashevskyMykhailoA.htm

    Myklashevsky, Mykhailo A. [Миклашевський, Михайло; Myklaševs’kyj, Myxajlo], b in the 1640s, d 30 March 1706 in Niasvizh, Belarus. Cossack statesman. An adjutant (1671) and close adviser to Hetman Demian Mnohohrishny (1672), after the 1672 Baturyn revolt against Mnohohrishny he served in the governments of Hetmans Ivan Samoilovych and Ivan Mazepa and became town otaman of Hlukhiv (1675) and osaul of Nizhyn regiment (1679–82). He participated in the Chyhyryn campaigns, 1677–8, and served on various diplomatic missions, particularly to Moscow. As general flag-bearer (1682) and general osaul of the Hetman state (1683–90) and colonel of Starodub regiment (1689–1706) he owned large estates, glassworks, and iron-ore mines in Starodub and Nizhyn regiments. A benefactor of Ukrainian art, churches, and monasteries, he funded the construction of Saint George’s Cathedral at the Vydubychi Monastery in Kyiv. Myklashevsky opposed the pro-Muscovite policy of Mazepa’s government. In 1703 he conducted secret negotiations with Polish and Lithuanian magnates with the aim of uniting Ukraine with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth on the basis of the provisions of the 1658 Treaty of Hadiach and thereby creating a Great Ruthenian principality. He was killed during the Swedish siege of Niasvizh.

  364. combined with some agendacratic individuals looking to prove a point to confirm with their bias.

    The only agenda that has been destroyed here is your own one, Mickey. You’re a well known individual whose blind adherence to any outlandish ideas that support the Triune theory is well know and can be safely discounted. If this study had supported a conclusion that the Ukrainians of Belgorod had closer genetic ties with their Russian neighbors in Southern Russia than in faraway Lviv, we wouldn’t be even having this conversation. In fact, you’d probably be the first one to dredge this study out and try to make some kind of pro-Russian ideological hay out of it. But unfortunately for you, it doesn’t work that way. 🙂

  365. Like that was his whole family.

  366. I suspect that if the French had gone through Ukraine, the Little Russians would not have been as anti-Russian as the Poles but much more anti-Russian than you would have liked.

    With the earlier examples of Vyhovsky and Mazepa, much more pro-Russian than what you would’ve liked.

  367. Balanovsky is not Russian. He and his mom (who is also a populations geneticist) are Jewish. Both published papers that are driven by an anti-Slav and anti-Russian agenda. The idea that Russians and Ukrainians living in adjacent regions do not cluster together is absolutely laughable when someone knows that in a pan-European study of SNP determined genetic differences Belarusian, Russian, Polish and Ukrainian populations formed a single cluster with a few outliers among both the Ukrainian and Russian populations given probably Turkic and Finno-Ugric admixture.

    This of course is expected given the historical common roots of the East Slavic populations.

    I am too lazy too go through NCBI to find the paper right now, but I will find it eventually and post it here.

    AP, you are clearly an intelligent individual, but you are hell-bent at proving whatever you write right and correct. This might become a little bit over the top if you publish such absurd stuff as you did above. Do not lower yourself to this level. We all know from your comment history that you are better than this.

    Balanovsky is not a reliable source of knowledge. He is actually a person I would call a п☆☆дабол.

    Excuse my Russian, but this poor SOB deserves this epithet.

  368. The idea that Russians and Ukrainians living in adjacent regions do not cluster together is absolutely laughable when someone knows that in a pan-European study of SNP determined genetic differences Belarusian, Russian, Polish and Ukrainian populations formed a single cluster with a few outliers among both the Ukrainian and Russian populations given probably Turkic and Finno-Ugric admixture.

    This doesn’t contradict the fact that Russians, Ukrainians, Poles are in a single cluster. Rather it looks at their position within the cluster. The study shows Ukrainians of Belgorod closer to Ukrainians of Lviv than to Russians of Belgorod. But yes, all of these are very similar.

    Could you tell me more about what is wrong with Balanovsky?

  369. Everyone is different from everyone else. Even the tween people are different to some extent, although their genetics might be identical.

    Everything is a question of statistics.

    You know: “lies, damn lies and statistics “…

    Now, this Balanovsky clown and his mamele write only two types of papers: 1) proving that Slavs are not a defined ethnic category 2) proving that Russians are even less of an ethnic category than the other Slavs.

    Very much “Culture of Critique” type of approach, but applied to Slavs and Russians, instead of WASPs and Americans. Kevin B. McDonald described in detail how it works, replace WASP by Russian and you get the picture. Typical Jewish SJW intelligentsia which only recognizes an identity to their own tribe.

    http://pereformat.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/balanovskie.jpg

    This is Friday night and I am thinking of a pleasant weekend ahead, writing about the Balanovsky kosher shenanigans upsets me.

  370. Interesting, thank you. How is this particular study flawed, in your estimation?

  371. Both the Ukrainians and Russians in the studied region had a similar character of major (highly frequent) Ychromosome haplogroups (Table 2). Haplogroup R1aM198 was the most frequent; haplogroup I2aP37 was somewhat less frequent, and N1cM178, R1bM269, I1M253, and E1bM35 also occurred with significant frequencies. This spectrum of Ychromosome haplogroups and character of their frequency distribution are typical for the populations of East Europe, except for its northern regions [20, 21]

    That’s in their study on p 248.

    Despite that they end up concluding that the populations are clearly separated.

    They are saying:

    1. The two populations (Ukrainians and southern Russians) are very similar.
    2. Despite being very similar, they can also be differentiated. Ukrainians even in Belgorod region are more similar to Ukrainians in Lviv region, than they are to Russians in Belgorod region.

    Okay, so we see that those who they identify as Ukrainians have somewhat less of typical Balto-Slavic Y haplogroups and somewhat more of the Y haplogroups from the Western Europe and the Balkans (or Mediterranean). As I wrote in a reply to Mr Hack, the Balto-Slavic populations have been admixed with Uralics and Vlakhs since times immemorial. Is it a big deal? Not really, all we see here is that Russian have more Ugric/Baltic admixture….and the Ukrainians have more Y haplogroups coming from the South West: E1b, I2a and West: R1b. Are we surprised? Not

    So you agree with the article that Ukrainians and Russians, while each being very similar to one another, do have subtle differences.

    The quantitative estimate of interethnic distinctions is given in Table 3. According to the results from analyzing the molecular variability (AMOVA), the level of interethnic variability (Fst = 0.0345) was four times higher than the level of intraethnic variability (Fst = 0.0087); however, it turned out to be low in the absolute value. For comparison, the index of intraethnic variability for a number of European ethnoses is approximately 0.07–0.17 [5, 6, 26]. Therefore, on the one hand, the AMOVA confirms the interethnic distinctions, but, on the other hand, the latter prove to be relatively low.

    So the conclusion is that differences between Ukrainians and Southern Russians are comparable in scale to differences within European ethnic groups; however, the differences are still meaningful because differences between Ukrainians in Belgorod and Ukrainians in other regions are still even smaller than differences between Ukrainians and Russians. I’m not sure what is so controversial here, though it’s interesting that Ukrainians from Belgorod are closer to those in Lviv than they are to their Russian neighbors (they are actually closer to Ukrainians in Lviv than they are to Ukrainians in Kharkiv, also – did a bunch of settlers from Galicia end up in Belgorod centuries ago?)

    I separated this part:

    (notice the Y haplogroup N1cM178 that you wrongly described earlier as a Scandinavian one and a proof of “Viking ” ancestry in the Rurikid)

    The Rurikid project itself concluded Scandinavian origin because the specific haplogroup linked to Rurikids is found amongst inhabitants of the Roslagen region of Sweden, north of Stockholm. Occam’s razor suggests that this must therefore be where Rurik came from. The fact that early Rurikids had Norse names (Helgi, Ingvar, etc.) adds further support.

    Your hypothesis that at some point Slavs sailed to and settled in this region of Sweden north of Stockholm, while not impossible seems to be much less realistic.

    Anyways I will be out of town for the remainder of the weekend so will at most provide quick or sparse responses until Monday.

  372. See my other comment. I’m not familiar with Balanovsky’s ideology but am more interested in the research findings. Monday I’ll look at their numbers to see how they match with the chart.

    As an aside I found that my haplogroup on the genetic website has been labeled “Wendish.” My family ended up in Ukraine but most of the hits are in Novgorod/Pskov region, followed by extensive ones all over Scandinavia. I really appreciate your earlier lengthy description to me.

  373. To both AP and Anon4:

    You guys are really starting to spark my interest in familial DNA and haplogroup information. Although I always did well in college studying science and math courses, life drew me into another direction, and therefore I would appreciate a “Haplogroups for Dummies” book (or article) as I’m unable to turn the clock of time back and go back to study this stuff in school.

    AP, you mention a “genetic website” where you compare your own haplogroup information with some sort of a generic blueprint for other ones similar to your own. Website address, please? How can I do something similar with my own, and is there a company that you would recommend to use that can help in obtaining this kind of information.

    Duzhe Diakuu!

    Bolshoye Spasibo!

  374. I used Family Tree DNA, got my Y haplogroup in 2008.

  375. Congratulations! In my humble opinion, your ancestors are Rus par excellence.

  376. Family tree DNA gives you the best info on deep paternal ancestry, but you have to pay for additional tests beyond the basic one. It’s not much, a couple hundred $.

    23andMe is good for exploring connections, you may find some surprising relatives. It gives percentages of ancestry and regional origins but some of its algorithms are suspect. My wife is 1/8 Kalmyk but is labeled 99.8% European. Probably because there are more Russians with partial Kalmyk ancestry in their database than actual Kalmyks, Kalmyk descent got classified as Eastern European.

  377. It’s just one small piece – paternal ancestry all the way down.

  378. AnonFromTN says

    Duzhe Diakuu!

    FYI, Central and Eastern Ukrainian “thank you very much” is “Щиро дякую”, Western Ukrainian is “Файно дякую”.

  379. Western Ukrainian is “Файно дякую”

    Nonsense; while it can be said, it is rare. Duzhe dyakuyu is much more common than faino. Although since you left western Ukraine at the age of 4 or 5 you can’t be expected to know much about the speech there.

  380. Okay, when I go to their website, I can see that they have a “basic” test that includes both “male & female” and ” Connect with your autosomal DNA relatives within the last 5 generations”. Then, they offer two extra tests, the “paternal” and “maternal” tests. Should I start with the basic test first and then proceed to the other two tests? What additional information do the two additional tests provide over the basic? Thanks!

  381. I would skip the family finder on Familytreedna – 23andme is better for that. It is also good for information about total genetic profile such as finding geographic origins.

    But if you want specific deep information about your paternal ancestry (father’s father’s father etc. going back centuries) the paternal test on familytreedna is the way to go. You can start with the Y-37 and then upgrade after you get your results by seeing your haplotree and adding further tests to get more details downstream.

    I would probably do both the basic 23andme and familytreedna with later upgrades.

    There is yet another fun one called mytrueancestry that compares your profile with DNA extracted from archeological sites (Scythian burial mounds, Viking graves, plague victims). I uploaded my sequence from 23andme onto this one.

  382. Thanks very much! Do you know of any good researchers in Ukraine that specialize in researching family trees and family names? So far, I’ve been able to locate my surname (an uncommon one) back to the 17th century. It appears that my family originated in the Chernihiv region, and included many members of the Cossack elite, including some Ottomans and Osauls too. I’ve already uncovered a very interesting family crest. I have somebody in mind, but thought that I’d check with you too.

  383. AnonFromTN says

    Nonsense; while it can be said, it is rare.

    Unlike some “Ukrainians”, I was born and grew up in Ukraine. The last time I heard “файно дякую” was in 2013 at Lugansk train station. The speaker was a person disembarking form train Lvov-Lugansk (Lugansk was in Ukraine back then and had train connections with many Ukrainian cities).

  384. By claiming that “файно дякую” is more common than duzhe dyakuyu in Western Ukraine, you once again demonstrate how little you know about the place you left when you were 4 or 5 years old.

  385. Sorry, I don’t.

  386. Since I started this sub-discussion I’d like to put in my 2 cents too. I’ve heard both “Щиро дякую” and “дуже дякую ” with almost equal frequency. I have heard ““файно дякую”, but not very often.
    As a kid, I picked up the adverb “файно”from somebody in our extended family. My mother thought that this was hilarious, as she tried to teach me a more proper standard form of Ukrainian. As everybody knows, ” “файно” is a very colloquial West Ukrainian adverb incorporated from either the Polish or German languages. It’s all fine (“файно”) with me.

    Гарно дякую за вашу увагу! 🙂

  387. Perhaps you would want to write to Eugene Klyosov who has worked extensively on DNA genealogy and the phylogenetics of Slav populations. He provided his services not only to Russian clients, but also Jewish and Arab ones. He also worked a lot on the Caucasus populations, Tatars etc.

    [email protected]

    He has worked at Harvard an is perfectly fluent in English. I have exchanged with him about my Family Tree DNA results and he was very responsive and helpful.

    They can actually make a personalized analysis of Family Tree DNA results.

  388. My wife is 1/8 Kalmyk

    Female mtDNA is not very informative. OTOH some male Kalmyk had “Scythian ” R1a steppe haplogroups. They were a minority of the overall Kalmyk population. Nonetheless, it shows that there was some ancient Indo-Iranian lineages acculturated among the Kalmyk.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg2013108

  389. Blinky Bill says
  390. Blinky Bill says
  391. Even the Soviets recognized that Kornilov was a very brave man. His humble origins and outstanding military career make him even more attaching. But the role he played during the abolition of the Monarchy was of course deeply negative. It was a betrayal of his Monarch to whom he has sworn absolute loyalty. Although he was certainly not alone and at least Kornilov tried to mitigate its consequences by rebelling against Kerensky.

  392. Would I need to provide familytreedna with any of the data that I obtain from 23andme or are they two totally separate processes?

    I don’t understand why Anon4 seems to denigrate the female haplogroup? Aren’t we really the amalgamation of both male/female union, both partners providing equal amounts of DNA?

  393. I don’t denigrate female genetics, I just know that it is not that informative from the ethnicity and philologeny point of view. Women slept with any conquering male groups as long as they fed them and their offspring and offered them protection. Men on the other hand got killed or enslaved if vanquished and reproduced less. Therefore, male haplogroups are still more or less attached to some trends in the ethnic groups evolution, while women are not.

  394. It is what it is, isn’t it Ano4? It takes two to tango.

    Whomever the women slept with (and for whatever reason) their DNA still is transmitted down to your individual haplogroup (on their side) that constitutes 50% of your own genetic structure?
    Right?

    If one of my great, great, great grandmothers cohabitated with Kipchak warlord, I think that that would be interesting to know. 🙂

  395. I agree. BTW I think that for the women sleeping with the victorious males is the right thing to do from a purely biological point of view. The Bell Beaker folks culled off the conquered male populations of Europe, but the female genetic lineages thrived and multiplied. That’s how we kept some phenotypic diversity in Western Europe.

  396. I did it as separate processes years ago but maybe now they have an agreement. MyHeritage takes the results from either 23andme or familytreedna.

  397. In your opinion then, was the Slavic arrival into Europe a part of the Bell Beaker expansion, or something that occurred later, perhaps as a part of the Kurgan theory ala Gimbutas and the Aryan odyssey? Or perhaps even something that preceded both of these waives?

  398. Slavs have nothing to do with Bell Beaker or Yamnaya people. The haplogroups don’t match. The Slavs are directly derived from the Corded Ware culture through the earlier Balto-Slavic Iron Age people and probably the Bronze age Lusatian culture and perhaps Unetice culture.

    Bell Beaker are the ancestors of the majority of the Western Europeans. The Corded Ware and the Bell Beaker did not get along well. Actually the Bell Beaker folks ethnically cleansed the Corded Ware male lineages of Central Europe. But they culled the other ancient Y haplogroup lineages as well.

    The Kurgan burials are a cultural tradition shared by Eurasian populations of different genetic lineages. Slavs are not directly linked to the origins of this Cultural phenomenon.

    Gimbutas theories are a little outdated.