Russians Become the State-Forming People

So the Russians have become the “state-forming people” of the Russian Federation following the completely unsurprising victory of YES.

Putin also gets the option of running for two more 6 year terms come 2024.

It also happens to be the case that this is very likely the most falsified election/referendum in modern Russian history, though would have still eked out a solid win of ~65% instead of the official 79%.

I have argued before that electoral fraud tends to be a bad idea even from the perspective of authoritarian polities, as it’s a crude tool that undermines elections as a way of credibly signaling regime strength and gathering reliable information. However, I’m not especially “triggered” by it, except in so far as it makes it harder for me to shill the amendments as the genuine expression of the will of the Russian people. I have also stated before that I doubt there’s any direct orders to falsify from the Presidential administration, as suggested by the heterogeneity of fraud, ranging from relatively clean in some regions (not just Moscow, but also Murmansk, Novgorod, probably also Crimea where the 90% result is explained by Putin’s local approval ratings and the fact that it doesn’t decrease with lower turnout) to completely invented at a few extremes (down to artificially having NO win at a fraction of polling stations). The hijinks are very obvious even to the naked eye, they’d be less so if centrally organized from technocrats.


Incidentally, this does illustrate why I can never be successful in politics or even mass punditry. Supporting the fascist, homophobic and Russian supremacist Constitutional amendment to aid and abet the Putler regime’s bid to remain in power indefinitely while spreading neocon propaganda about how Russian elections/referendums are falsified while saying that it is not really Putin’s fault while but it actually sort of is for not building a more sophisticated (deniable) electoral fraud machine over 20 years in power if you really need to keep falsifying elections… isn’t the best way of raising relations with any of the major factions – Western partners; libs; Putinists; even nationalists.

Comments

  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. It was worth it just for the absolutely glorious hysterics of assorted “russian” libshit and discrimination of homos alone, and there is so much more there.

    HAIL PUTLER

  3. songbird says

    Subtle language to combat the idea of replacement migration is all very well and good, but it would not have hurt to ban Africans and trannies from entering the country.

  4. Dreadilk says

    I was wondering why it was taking you so long to comment on the conclusion of the vote. I saw that chart being pushed by Besedina and disregarded it right away. Gotta say it is a bit disappointing mainly because I was hoping that would be the real result.

    I gotta wonder if liberals in Russia would be allowed to act as they were if there was no cheating at poling places. Maybe the Chinese way would be better with more repression before vote.

  5. Almost Missouri says

    Just want to wish Russia a Happy Independence Day!

    It must be nice…

  6. NazBolFren says

    Shows that the amount of liberalism and globohomo is growing…i feel putin hasn’t been radical enough in eliminating libs and allowing the spread of globohomo in the country

  7. Toddy Cat says

    If I was living in Russia, I would have voted “Yes”, although I think that Putin is putting Russia’s future at risk by not grooming a successor. Or is there someone I don’t know about?

  8. Gerard1234 says

    FFS LOL – how predictable . Just how predictable from the btd. I know I am risking further punishment just for speaking on principle and having been victim , just like Mandela was , to a great injustice of “you’re not banned, you are are just banned” from this ***** Karlin…but here goes .

    AK: In fact, “Gerard” was not banned this entire past month, but now is, and permanently (given his existing record of toxic commentary). Leaving this comment up for reference purposes only. Request to readers to ignore him if/when he creates new socks until I can delete them.

    the fact is:

    1. this “research” is too dumb to realise that the votes are not fully aligned with the “pro-Putin” sector because Zhirik/LDPR supported the new constitution ,and although Communist leadership were against the change , – there are still plenty of Communists disgusted at Yeltsins actions in 1993 or just plain liked the many socialist orientated pledges…..which means that “pro-Putin” votes would be about 10+% lower than those ” for” the changing of the Constitution you idiot

    2.Saint Petersburg, just about the dumbest place to do election fraud ( and contrary to some laughable retard claims in Fontanka) ….had a very high 70% turnout and near 80% win ( I checked when about 90% of votes had been counted and it was looking like being kavkaz figures of voting but then it decreased to a still huge number)

    3.There is a clear relationship between population density, and turnout for election in the region…..further amplified during a time of coronavirus…..further amplified that the less densely populated ones are more likely to be the ones that have had their uptake in coronavirus cases a couple of months after the rest of Russia. To anybody with a brain, that means slightly less enthusiasm or ability for turning up for the election , or being for it , and have largely pro-Putin voters in rural or very remote areas able to vote.That the figures are still high is because, if your mouse-like brain can understand it – the authorities did a very good job on coronavirus

    4.What was it, 6-8 million people distance voting away from place of registration or electronically voting in Moscow and NN? That is further going to make a mockery of the statistics and interpretation from this clown

    1. Densely populated south , discarding the kavkaz ethnic republics , has long passed the worst of the coronavirus, hence why the holiday season is able to start and most business are running…..hence a very high turnout and support
    2. Moscow had 50% turnout and 67% vote “for”, pretty much like Sverdlovsk. So what? Summer vote, Dacha season,9 weeks of restrictions…and recent history of high vote and high turnout – it doesn’t mean anything, it is what it is.

    3. Instead of looking at the obvious trend…that vote for Putin is very high because he is a great leader – we get these premeditated pseudo-mathematical drivel.

    Karlin doesn’t understand maths or science, so it is 100% likely he does not even understand why or how this BS “research” even suggests election fraud… .he’s just going with the flow of this drivel because he is an anti-Russian liberast who sees what Brooklyn, pogrom-bitter part of Tel-Aviv , Vilnius and Ivano-Frankovsk says…and regurgitates this disinfo without thinking.

    Mandela was in jail for 27 years, I was unjustly banned ( despite being told I was not) for about 27 days ….I honestly don’t know which of these was the bigger injustice.

  9. they would have to ban lots and lots of western officials

  10. SIMP simp says

    You are a contrarian doing contrarian things; a personality trait that, as I discovered myself, doesn’t lead to a very successful life. Probably there is even some selection against contrarian-personality genes, so that’s why contrarian traits are not all that common in humans. Hopefully CRISPR would eliminate these pesky genes from the gene pool and there will be no more wreckers to rain on parades.

  11. Mr. Hack says

    Incidentally, this does illustrate why I can never be successful in politics or even mass punditry. Supporting the fascist, homophobic and Russian supremacist Constitutional amendment to aid and abet the Putler regime’s bid to remain in power indefinitely while spreading neocon propaganda about how Russian elections/referendums are falsified while saying that it is not really Putin’s fault while but it actually sort of is for not building a more sophisticated (deniable) electoral fraud machine over 20 years in power if you really need to keep falsifying elections… isn’t the best way of raising relations with any of the major factions – Western partners; libs; Putinists; even nationalists.

    I think that we’re to understand that you feel conflicted because although you like the major thrust of the referendum, you’re not crazy about another 12 years of Putler that was part of the pork snuck in with the main meal, and you feel that Putler shouldn’t stoop to falsifying the results? Relax, nothing is ever perfect.

    But 12 more years, of the same old, same old? Really?

  12. anonymous coward says

    It’s not an election. It’s an opinion poll. It’s not a referendum, nor is it an election of an official, and Russia has legal provisions only for these two kinds of elections.

  13. AnonFromTN says

    I think current policy is smarter. Nobody can discredit libtards as effectively as they do it themselves. Why make martyrs out of obvious pieces of shit? Isn’t it better to let them demonstrate their shittyness for all to see?

    • I don’t have any strong opinion on the nullification, it’s not a big deal since if Putin wants to he can remain the leading executive authority through other ways, there’s still plenty of time to think something up. It also doesn’t obligate him to remain President after 2024, merely gives him the choice of running; that is not necessarily a bad thing, since the international situation is going to get less, not more, stable over the next few years. It’s another question if he makes use of that opportunity, this will happen in three years time anyway, which is an eternity in politics, no point in getting worked up about it now.

    • I also don’t have very strong opinions on electoral fraud, as I don’t have strong opinions on “elections” or “democracy” in general (though if one keeps up the pretense, you should probably be more sophisticated about it). I merely acknowledge the statistically unambiguous fact that it happens. But some people take strong exception to that.

  14. Europe Europa says

    Who would be the state forming people of the US? WASPs?

  15. Europe Europa says

    Only from the US and UK, you’d be hard pressed to find a black official in any other Western country except those two, same goes for tranny officials to a large extent.

  16. There undoubtedly is — I can’t remember where (I think it might have been in that Oliver Stone film) but Putin once implied that he has been obsessing over his succession plan since he first came into power. He definitely has a shortlist, but the real choice will have to wait until he feels the time is right for him to step down. There was no point ironing out succession plans in 2005 and likewise there’s no point doing so now if he has 4 more years at a minimum. Don’t forget that Putin himself was only a regional official in St Petersburg 4 years before he became prime minister. Politics changes quickly, the landscape might look completely different in 2024.

  17. Mike_from_Russia says

    I am Russian in Russia. The key ideas of this referendum are the supremacy of our laws on the territory of Russia, a turn to conservative values, and a departure from the ideas of liberalism in many areas of public life. Please don’t think we’re a bunch of idiots. One of the main problems of our local liberals is that people with conservative views dominate quantitatively and become more and more politically active. This creates problems for liberals.

  18. Peripatetic Commenter says

    We must bomb Russia until they beg to become fudge packers!

  19. AnonFromTN says

    We must bomb Russia until they beg to become fudge packers!

    Did little voices tell you anything else? Don’t be shy, share.

  20. Europe Europa says

    Wouldn’t this be like saying the English are the state-forming people of the whole of the UK, including Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland?

    I can’t imagine such a declaration would be popular either domestically or internationally.

  21. https://regnum.ru/uploads/pictures/news/2020/01/31/regnum_picture_1580480486134533_normal.jpg

    This “vote” has been rigged on an absolutely ridiculous scale. The whole thing is a joke. When a government feels the need to manipulate the vote on such a gigantic scale it really smacks of desperation. No one will ever take Russian Constitution seriously anymore (that is if someone ever did).

    https://pioneer-lj.livejournal.com/1792837.html

  22. Peripatetic Commenter says

    Is this real or just another fake?

    https://twitter.com/adagamov/status/1278245143800356864

  23. So the Russians have become the “state-forming people”

    I thought it happened during the reign of Ivan the Terrible at the latest. I must have missed something…

  24. How do you feel about it?

  25. Philip Owen says

    And in the case of the Scots, who joined through a legal process, it wouldn’t be true. It was a formal Union. So it was with Ireland, although Ireland was not sovereign it was self governing and tje Parliament voluntarily gave up those powers. In all three cases, the electroate were of course land owning gentry and burgeres capable of paying significant taxes.

  26. another anon says

    So the Russians have become the “state-forming people” of the Russian Federation following the completely unsurprising victory of YES.

    Good. Russians finally have what the Tatars and Bashkirs got long ago.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/many-of-russias-republics-are-national-states/

    Egor Kholmogorov has noted that Constitution of Bashkortostan, where Bashkirs only make up 36% of the population, proudly announces that Bashkortan is for Bashkirs

    BTW, anyone knows how it works in practice in the national republics?
    Do, for example, the Bashkirs in Bashkiria get any affirmative action perks, hiring preferences or other benefits for being Bashkir, or is it just few empty words in the constitution that no one ever reads?

  27. another anon says

    No one will ever take Russian Constitution seriously anymore (that is if someone ever did).

    Of all nations, only Americans worship their constitution as holy book like Bible or Koran.
    No one else gives a shit (how many French or Italians have ever read their respective constitutions?)

    And, in American case, it only means that if TPTB want to do something, they need to “discover” it was always there in the umbras and penumbras of the constitution.
    The holy book cannot be changed, because it is holy, but it can be always creatively interpreted to mean what you want it to mean.

  28. Passer by says

    Congratulations.

    US Embassy in Russia. Try to find the LGBT+ flag.

  29. Peripatetic Commenter says

    What does it matter how I feel about it?

    It’s either real or fake.

    As a meme, however, it’s powerful.

  30. You’re right, why should I care about your feelings.

    About the rainbow flag “desecration”, it is real.

  31. Maïkl Makfaïl says

    About massive frauds: some people i follow say it hasnt happened, others say otherwise, i personally don’t know who to believe. I really says something though about the incompetence of Putin and his clique if they are not even capable of organizing clean elections.

  32. Peripatetic Commenter says

    Whoa. My respect for the Russian people has gone up further.

  33. Tsar Nicholas says

    But 12 more years, of the same old, same old? Really?

    But Putler hasn’t even brought himself up to the position enjoyed by Boris Johnson, who can remain as Prime Minister forever (so long as he wins elections).

    Putler is an underachiever.

  34. Marshal Marlow says

    The close-cropped framing and the sameness of the people doing it leads me to guess that its a fake.

  35. Oh but you can. Just by not actually saying anything, and being deliberately vague and creepy about it. Just have a Cheshire cat grin and some crazy eyes and you’re good to go

    Confuses the eternal NPC into infinitely supporting you

  36. The joys of anglosaxon aka autistocratic kritarchic law

  37. Yes, and no

    Imagine the numbers of the “titular” nationalities (scots, welsh etc) are the same as their current native speakers, who are a minority ib their own containment zones even.

    Something you people should have done. Scots are just english with funny accent god damn it

  38. Peripatetic Commenter says

  39. Peripatetic Commenter says

    I think Putin is pretty smart.

    He revealed that Russia has hypersonic weapons and defenses against hypersonic weapons before he asked the Russian people to vote on extending his presidency and laws banning faggots.

  40. The only people and constitution that won’t be taken seriously from now on is the American one.

    The vote rigging is either non-existent, irrelevant, or weird, as it is absolutely certain that the Opposition (Or Putler) decided to stuff ballots in favor of the opposition to make it look like there’s a bigger opposition to this than there actually is, giving more legitimacy to what’s happening here amongst the mentally ill children who still hold to antiquated notions of democracy, “fair elections”, and muh representation.

    You’re just grasping for straws at this point.

  41. Anti-Rationalist says

    Ivan the not so Terrible tbh.

  42. Anti-Rationalist says

    I fuckin’ love it regardless.

  43. Peripatetic Commenter says

    Me too. And any sane person would too!

  44. Problem is you can’t bomb Russia otherwise it would’ve been done by now…Russia is for practical purposes untouchable in a military sense atm.

  45. He’s prediction of 65% Yes didn’t happen…so it MUST’ve been “rigged”….if it really was, never mind the liberals, but the commies would’ve been up in arms

  46. Commies weren’t up in arms in 1996 when they enjoyed a large support among Russian population and nevertheless got Zuganov’s victory stolen from them. Russian commies are controlled opposition. Even Russian liberals are mainly controlled opposition. Political life in Russia is a President’s Administration built political technology construct.

  47. anonymous coward says

    …with 50% needed for the vote to be valid…

    Say what now? Where did you get this? I repeat again: the dirty secret is that the new constitution has already been ratified, regardless of the “election” results or if one even takes place.

    This is nothing but an expensive opinion poll. (So much for “authoritarian” putinism. What other nation would bother with measuring public opinion in such an elaborate and expensive fashion when it’s not required by law?)

  48. Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive says

    https://youtu.be/3Q_c-fMtBYg
    There are natural barriers…

  49. potemkin villiage bank says

    Alexander Solzhenitsyn once pointed out that Russia far from being behind the west was in fact ahead, having gone through destructive liberalism and communism to emerge reborn

    whereas the west was in a state of liberalasm headed towards communasm from which it would likely not emerge

    It is only the second and fifth amendment in the USA that is preserving the west from destructive liberalasm [freedom without responsibility] that leads to communasm

    the inability of western thinkers to complete the revolution begun by Jesus Christ who was the first scientist of providential history who discerned in Genesis the principle of creation from which the principle of recreation was derived

    Christ left the axioms from which we can understand that we are now living in the last days
    of the providential process to separate good from evil and prepare for the governance of ” the Father “through the bloodline of the returning Christ ,who will be forced by the failure of the “elect” who were deceived by the herrlot of babylon [CoNNgress] ,to open a you tube account

    A day is as a thousand years a thousand years is as a day

    The last days will be shortened 7 & 8 days

    The parable of the fig tree 4 cycles by the Father one Cycle by the servant

    When Jesus healed on the sabbath he was accused of “breaking the Mosaic law”

    he replied “ever since the beginning my Father has worked [not rested] AND SO WILL I” Christ thus indicated an eighth day which can be seen in Genesis shortly after the seven day account ie “the lord was walking in the cool of the day”

    The cool of the day is the morning of the eighth say where “the Father” found Adam and Eve had covered their sexual organs indicating they had broken the command that he had given them “not to eat the fruit”

    The eighth day was never defined as such in the Bible due it not returning joy to the “Father” until its existence hinted at by Christ

    and then revealed in the early 60’S by the Beetles “Eight days a week”

    The masterminds of 9/11 who left Russia after the fall of communism. emigrated to USA where they took over operation mockingbird and used it to promote the colorpots of zino plan B agenda the destruction of countries using the deep state pedocracy control of

    media and edukation and promotion of color revolutions

    I will bo k

  50. Peripatetic Commenter says

    I am sure GloboHomo is working on plans.

  51. Europe Europa says

    I take it the longer term aim of Russians as the “state-forming” people is the end of the current federal and autonomous structure of the “republics” and the implementation of direct rule from Moscow?

  52. Commies weren’t up in arms in 1996 when they enjoyed a large support among Russian population and nevertheless got Zuganov’s victory stolen from them.

    I was told by someone who would know that Zyuganov was told in advance more or less what the results would be.

  53. Mike_from_Russia says

    How about it
    The network published a video of” cheating ” exit polls on the vote on the Constitution of this country

    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/883062
    (in Russian)
    Liberals, duty work

  54. Mike_from_Russia says

    A very good video collection of how falsifications were made on exit polls – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9chMfKMY3TM . In Russian but you can enable translation
    Delegitimization of the referendum is questionable.

  55. Grim Deadman says

    statistically unambiguous fact that it happens
    Could you please provide a link where one can find a reasonably lucid explanation of this point?